I’m in Pacific time zone, so wee don’t get it until later this morning.
3.
Dork
Not a diff. Obama is the new, younger democratic Reagan. Charismatic, liberal, attractive (I’m told), and pugnacious. Nader is an old, foolish blowhard. Obama need not fear him.
I suspect he’ll blow about 10 mill total, garner 0.2% of the vote, and then immediately start planning for his “run” in 2012.
4.
Pb
Heh. Here’s to Republicans funding Nader to suck away more of the McCain vote this time around. Jeez.
5.
Dug Jay
Doubt it will matter. Obama likely already has in his corner all the nitwits that voted for Nader last time.
6.
Zifnab
Will it make a difference?
It might impact his life expectancy. I can definitely see a few people out to lynch him after 2000. But, at this point, I think we’ve all learned our lesson regarding the “Dems and Republicans are all the same” meme.
7.
zsa
There was a time when it was a statement about the political system.
Now it’s just embarrassing.
8.
GSD
This man won’t wear a U.S. flag lapel pin made in China.
He’s obviously unqualified for the job.
-GSD
9.
TR
at this point, I think we’ve all learned our lesson regarding the “Dems and Republicans are all the same” meme.
Well, not everyone. Ralph and his ego haven’t learned the lesson.
Yep it will. Those 8 people who will vote for him thinking they’re making some important statement will be SO stoked!
11.
smiley
Nader tipped the 2000 vote to Bush. He knows that. Nader is a GOP tool.
12.
RandyH
Now C-Span just showed the clip of him announcing on MTP and is asking what people think.
Well, I think it’s probably good. Those who could never bring themselves to vote for a black man (but they’re not racists, of course) now have somewhere other than McCain to put their vote. He won’t add up to much though and he’d most likely draw more from McCain than Obama.
13.
taodon
Imagine how much more he could do for the country if he just donated the campaign funds he would use to charity instead. Oh wait – who gives a crap about helping people? What an egomaniac.
14.
Adolphus
It might make a small difference if both Hillary wins and the two parties pursue a 51% strategy. In that case even a 5% vote swing one way or another will make a difference. Obama swings for the fences and will win or lose by a higher margin than Nader can affect.
Two things (I can think of this early on a Sunday morning) will mitigate his impact.
1. The green thing is not quite the niche issue it has been in the past. Even Main Stream Reps are advocating some of the things that made Nader radical 10 years ago.
2. After 7 years of Bush Nader’s “No difference between the two parties” spiel just doesn’t get the traction it did in 2000. There is a big difference and everyone knows it.
I hope the Dems are smarter this year and offer Nader and his supporters something, like a Cabinet position. I always thought he’d be good heading the Labor Department.
Adolphus Says: Imagine how much more he could do for the country if he just donated the campaign funds he would use to charity instead. Oh wait – who gives a crap about helping people? What an egomaniac.
Now if we can just convince Buchanan and Perot to jump in we could call the General Election: Obama vs. the Grumpy Old Men.
Democrats are very motivated to end the insanity of this administration. On or about 5 March, Democrats will start uniting around the candidate and get on with the task of electing the party’s nominee to the White House.
18.
rob!
go. away.
19.
Sinister eyebrow
Oh for God’s sake. When will this narcissistic tool find something else to do to stoke his ego?
Ralph’s perfectly positioned to capture the Ron Paul voting bloc.
21.
Graeme
I don’t think it will make a difference. He announced people are disillusioned but there has been record turnout. I think that’s a real disconnect. MUP shoved him aside pretty well, I thought, with this:
You know, he had called me and I think reached out to my campaign — my sense is is that Mr. Nader is somebody who, if you don’t listen and adopt all of his policies, thinks you’re not substantive. He seems to have a pretty high opinion of his own work. Now — and by the way, I have to say that, historically, he is a singular figure in American politics and has done as much as just about anybody on behalf of consumers. So in many ways he is a heroic figure and I don’t mean to diminish him. But I do think there is a sense now that if somebody is not hewing to the Ralph Nader agenda, then you must be lacking in some way.
22.
4tehlulz
>>Do you even know who Ralph Nader is?
I do, and his “they’re both the same” cynicism helped give us Bush. That caused far more damage than his consumer advocacy has prevented. Fuck him.
23.
Zifnab25
Nader tipped the 2000 vote to Bush. He knows that. Nader is a GOP tool.
Fuck you.
The voter fraud in Maimi, the voter suppression throughout the United States, a corrupt Supreme Court, an ignorant electorate, a media willing to paint Al Gore as a liar and George Bush as a combat veteran, …
Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.
Nader’s got an ego, and he’s got a bad sense of how to grow as a politician. But I’d support him as a mayor, as a congressman, as a senator, as a governor. He’s smart, he’s capable, and he’s got a fantastic record. That his Green Party got hijacked by the Republican Party doesn’t make the Green Party’s message any less valid. And when this country moves left again, I’d love to see the Green Party fill in the gaps that the Democratic Party will inevitably leave exposed on the environment, on tax law, and on labor issues.
The Green Party is desperately needed in America. Nader might not be moving the party in the best direction, but he’s got a mission far more noble and disciplined than the yahoo Bush-fluffers at Red State or the Clintonistas like Taylor Marsh. Nader may still win my protest vote in November if Obama decides that clinching the nomination gives him the right to abandon the left.
24.
Scott H
Nader, if they don’t completely ignore him, will get the other candidates to address the ‘Nader’ issues.
Zifnab:
“Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.”
FWIW: when it comes to state,municipal, and local offices, whenever there’s a green, socialist, communist, what-have-you (except nazis) I vote for the fringe candidate.
However, Nader is most definitely a tool. And one whose party has certainly played more than it’s share of ball with the GOP.
26.
smiley
Fuck you … I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.
Wow. Is that a plank in the Green party platform?
27.
4tehlulz
>>Wow. Is that a plank in the Green party platform?
Well, that would be additional proof of GOP/Green “cooperation”.
Well, it fits in with the flag pin, the gay lover, the lyin’ captain from Afghanistan and Hillary getting angry about Barack mentioning NAFTA. Hunkered down on the Pacific Coast, getting hammered by the storm coming in off the water, it seems that MSM and its little helpers are all going after Obama. Yeah, I’m disenchanted. Can I vote for a new MSM?
29.
jeff
Did Harold Stassen make a difference?
30.
curtadams
I was going to say that Nader seems to want to be the Harold Stassen of the 21st century. Except that Stassen actually won some campaigns, so I guess Nader is a more ridiculous 21st century version of Stassen.
31.
Dave_Violence
Are we ready for an Arab-American president? Nadar is an ivy-league lawyer, so he’s certainly qualified, he’s tall, too.
Go for it, Ralph!
32.
borehole
I don’t understand the anti-Nader vitriol. Okay, so he’s got no chance of actually winning, but at least his presence in the race moves the discussion somewhat leftward and pushes the top contenders to take economic issues and labor concerns more seriously than they would otherwise. Plus, his wife is incredibly impressive, and–this is shallow, I know, but it’s the TV age–he’s just so darned handsome.
What’s that? I’m thinking of Edwards?
Oh, that’s right. Nader’s the frumpy little scold who sits in front of a mirror practicing his announcement for a thousand-plus days at a stretch instead of working on behalf of that agenda he’s supposedly so passionate about. Fuck that guy.
33.
Tom
Ralph Nader is a sickofant. Fuck him, fuck the green party and if I ever see this fuck stain in an airport, you will be reading about me in the newspapers.
As suggested upthread, he is the Harold Stassen of our time.
I wish he would go away and write books about car safety or something. He was good at that.
35.
nasrudin
former Democratic operative and current MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O’Donnell, speaking in An Unreasonable Man:
“If you want to pull the party–the major party that is closest to the way you’re thinking–to what you’re thinking, YOU MUST, YOU MUST show them that you’re capable of not voting for them. If you don’t show them you’re capable of not voting for them, they don’t…have…to listen to you. I promise you that. I worked within the Democratic Party. I didn’t listen, or have to listen, to anything on the left while I was working in the Democratic Party, because the left had nowhere to go.” http://www.distantocean.com/2007/11/the-one-thing-t.html
Nader is an embarrassing clown. He won’t change the outcome of this election any more than he changed the outcome of the 2004 election — which is fine, since he’d already done the damage he was going to do.
I think the appropriate parallel, though, is to John Anderson’s 1980 run, which (among other things) gave Democrats who couldn’t vote for Clinton some place to run to. My guess is that Nader or some other third party candidate will be the place that moderate elephants hide this year if they can’t make themselves vote donkey. Given our system, those will effectively be votes for the Dem.
37.
wasabi gasp
Nader sees America as a defective product and wants it off the market.
38.
Jon H
“Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.”
Nader’s got an ego, and he’s got a bad sense of how to grow as a politician. But I’d support him as a mayor, as a congressman, as a senator, as a governor. He’s smart, he’s capable, and he’s got a fantastic record.
He’s also unbelievably dishonest. Here’s Mark Kleiman on him.
Just to get John’s blood pressure going, here he is on the Terri Schiavo case.
40.
mclaren
Nader will make no difference in 2008. Anyone remember the Rage Against the Machine music video on the eve of the 2000 election? The one directed by Michael Moore? The music video that created the impression that there was basically no difference at all between Gore and the sociopath who is now torturing people from the Oval Office?
Man. How wrong could they get it? That was what made Nader a factor. Today, everyone knows the stakes. Four more years of torture? Or do we want the constitution back? Four more years without habeas corpus? Four more years of edited scientific papers, official lies about WMDs, illegal kidnapping to black sites outside the U.S…. No, this time we all know the difference Obama and the other guy.
Nader will be lucky if he doesn’t get The Pharaohs treatment from American Grafitti.
RICHARD DREYFUS: “What happened to your last initiate?”
HEAD OF THE PHARAOHS: “We tied him to the car and dragged him.”
41.
stuck in 200
Nader did some good work in the ’60’s and ’70’s, but he’s been lost in his own hype for decades. A company I worked for did some work for him in the ’80’s and I can tell you that as a businessman he was every bit as sleazy as the companies he was on a “crusade” against. For one thing, he didn’t believe in paying his bills – I missed paychecks because of his crap.
Bitter? Why yes – but I’d go through it again twice if it could have prevented his little exercise in heightening the contradictions in 2000.
42.
Stoic
Yeah, he has the Overweening Narcissist vote all tied up. We’re doomed.
Let’s see: there was allegedly no difference between the two major parties, right!?
With King George now impeached, the last U.S. troops out of Iraq – for lack of funds from Congress, and the war won in Afghanistan – for a surfeit of funding, the Patriot Act and FISA now rescinded, and progressive taxation now fully restored, I would have to agree that Ralph Nader firmly had his head up his …
Oh, wait ..
What a bunch of fucking self-deluded morons you apologist quisling Dems are!!!!!
Should Obama NOT get the nomination, this is one independent who will be voting for Ralph Nader a THIRD time.
45.
4tehlulz
Should Obama NOT get the nomination, this is one independent who will be enabling the GOP a THIRD time.
Fixed.
46.
jake
Yes. The 2008 election cycle just became 50% more amusing and the useless wanker quotient just shot up 80%. I hope the band plays “Send in the Clowns,” every time he takes the stage.
Here’s a hint for all the non-traditional parties out there: Start small. Think state or even county government. It’s hard to take your asses seriously when you only pop up every four years, like some sort of narcoleptic groundhog.
47.
Lavocat
Yeah, you gotta love it. The Dems have all the opportunities in the world to make good on their Crusade Against Evil and after they piss away each and EVERY one of them, AND they get called on it by The Pissed Off Electorate (myself very much included), their detractors (i.e., the American Public at large) get called “enablers of the GOP”.
Seriously, you can’t make this shit up. What color is the sky in your world, pray tell?
48.
Jon H
Probably the best response would be for individuals, unconnected to any campaign, to put on the most lunatic Larouchian sandwichboards possible and go out in the cities campaigning for Nader.
There was a guy in Chicago, might still be there, whose sandwichboard claimed that Gore had been replaced by a clone, among other bizarre theories. If that guy were pushing Nader, well, it wouldn’t help Nader.
(Some Nader supporters would no doubt believe every crazy thing. They’re like that.)
49.
Lavocat
What continues to amaze me is that some fool like Nader can “announce his intentions” and thereby send the entire Democratic Party into paroxysms of denial. Oh, the horror!
My, my! Remember when the adults used to be in control? Of EITHER party? I do!
My GOD, that is rich! First, before casting the first stone, the Dems need to become vertebrates again. And living in glass houses is probably a bad idea, too!
50.
DougJ
John has written that third parties candidates make him think of the XFL. I propose that Nader be allowed to participate in the debates if he wears a He Hate Me starter jersey
51.
Lavocat
Why give Americans more than two choices? What do you think this is, a democracy or something? Democracy is only useful when the elites can pre-determine the outcome. Otherwise, it’s just too dangerous.
If it were McCain vs. Clinton, perhaps. But if Obama is the nominee, I doubt it. The MUP is sufficiently out-of-the-establishment to appeal to most Naderites.
A friend of mine voted for Nader in 2000 (he was in New York, where it couldn’t have made a difference). This year I told him “If you vote for Nader in November, I’ll kill you.” He said that would make a good bumper sticker.
56.
Asti
Honestly? I think this is Ralph Nader’s time to get a hard lesson in reality and realize it doesn’t work anymore. He did it twice and stole votes that were desperately needed elsewhere and I think people will wise up this time.
57.
J sub D
Whaddya think? Will it make a difference?
Late night talk show writers report that this will make a positve difference in their job satisfaction.
58.
Anne Laurie
Nader’s got an ego, and he’s got a bad sense of how to grow as a politician. But I’d support him as a mayor, as a congressman, as a senator, as a governor. He’s smart, he’s capable, and he’s got a fantastic record.
If Nader had been willing to “settle” for running for mayor/congressman/senator/governor 25 years ago, he could have ended up as a serious presidential candidate today. (Or he could have realized that running an electorate is harder than running his mouth. And that his lifelong habit of treating volunteers, contributors, and businesses as interchangeable disposables to be used up and discarded isn’t viable above the solitary-messiah level.) But anyone paying enough attention to politics to be reading blogs like Balloon Juice knows Nader’s openly been taking money from the GOP since at least 2002, so the only difference he’s liable to make in this year’s election is that he’ll give maxed-out McCain contributors a new place to flush their remaining funds and anti-Democratic resentments.
59.
Rick Taylor
Nader in 2008! Because eight years of a Republican administration just aren’t enough!
I have no idea if he’ll have any effect on the election outcome or not; I gave up making horse race predictions after being convinced it would be impossible for our commander in chief to win a second term after he’d demonstrably lead us into a conflict under completely false pretenses that looked to be of indefinite extent, and would cost us huge amounts in blood and treasure. I will say with confidence however that Ralph Nader is an unmitigated arrogant .
60.
capelza
Is he getting GOP money again this time?
And yes, we want MORE GOP judges on the bench..that’s just so awesome! Go Nader. Gack.
61.
JR
What a bunch of fucking self-deluded morons you apologist quisling Dems are!!
I triple that. Well said. As far as I’m concerned, take the anti-Nader crap to DailyKos. Ralph runs to have a microphone to speak Truth to Power, and damn if it isn’t the Dem activists who keep shouting him down.
Whenever Dem apologists start up with this vitriol against Nader, who has been telling the truth about the Democratic Party for years, it immediately descends into a worldview-gnashing-against-reality hatefest like DailyKos has become.
This is the exact unwinnable argument that has eaten up the harmony and purpose of the Dem base: “Nader was right about the Dems and We Have A Problem” vs. “Dems Need a Scapegoat.” Then people who care to support those who actually FIGHT for the middle class have to defend Nader, and argue, and take smears from people whose arguments become holding ears in their fingers and humming loudly.
Problem is, Nader WAS right and the Dems have only proven it with each passing month. If you say there is a big obvious difference between Parties being demonstated, it may in your view of it, but not in reality.
And THERE lies the problem: people who will not see reality. It is encapsulated in the Nader hatred by “progressive” big-tent reform Dems.
62.
JR
Has the dumbing down been completed? We need 10 Thousand Naders, not to tear apart one we have.
You would think from all the self-inflated gas about the Democratic Party being wrongfully “derailed” by a Nader candidacy, that people here actually believe the Dems are about to solve this conundrum of unchecked Executive Power, end the war and begin to defend themselves instead of acting as weak proxies to enforce the Right Wing meme.
That’s it, kill off the few who are fighting. Bravo Dems!
Nader is telling a big lie, and the whores at NBC have to give him a platform he does not deserve on which to stand and tell it.
The big lie is wrapped in a truth, which is that our democracy wouldn’t be one if only two parties owned all the votes. Nader said almost these exact words today.
Those words are true. The big lie is that Nader is not a real candidate. He can’t win, has no chance of getting enough votes to qualify for anything. He runs outside the system because he cant get the support he needs to be a viable candidate in a party primary scenario. He abuses this process to give himself a platform to get attention, get on tv, and make speeches that nobody would otherwise pay any attention to. He can’t win, he knows he can’t win, he can’t do anything except be a pain in the ass. So he becomes a parasite on the democratic process and then wants to use that process as a cover for his abusive behavior.
He’s an asshole. He’s a fake, and a liar, and why NBC gives him a microphone, I have no idea.
64.
firebrand
If Hillary, in some insane circumstance, ends up getting the nomination, Nader will definitely matter. If it’s Obama who gets it, then Nader doesn’t stand a chance.
Nader will definitely matter. If it’s Obama who gets it, then Nader doesn’t stand a chance.
You can’t be serious. Nader has never stood a chance, and between the first and second times he ran, his vote percentage dropped by about 75%. He got less that one percent of the vote in 2004.
He has no money and no organization. No support, and no mechanism for getting any.
WTF?
66.
Splitting Image
I don’t subscribe to the theory that Nader cost the Democrats the 2000 election.
and look at the analysis of the 2004 vote versus 2000, it seems that Nader was taking votes from both parties in 2000 in proportion to their relative level of supports. He took more votes from Republicans in red states (which went to Bush in 2004) and more votes from Democrats in blue states (which went to Kerry).
If anything, the electoral-vote map seems to show more Nader votes going to the Republicans in 2004 than to the Democrats. That strongly suggests that the Nader votes in Florida were evenly split between the two parties and places the blame for Gore’s loss on the butterfly ballot which gave 2000 Gore votes to Buchanan and the halted recount process, rather than Ralph Nader.
As for 2008, I don’t think he’ll be a factor. He took a lot of votes in 2000 because people didn’t see much of a difference between the two parties, and did much worse in 2004 because people made a strong distinction between Kerry and Bush. I think there is an even more marked difference between Obama and McCain, which doesn’t leave a lot of room for Nader to pick up votes.
I think he’ll pick up a few Democrats who can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man, and some Republicans who want to show Mr. Straight Talk what a real maverick looks like. I doubt he’ll crack 1%.
67.
Asti
I think he’ll pick up a few Democrats who can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man
If someone can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man, I wonder why they would call themselves a Democrat?
68.
Anticorium
What do you think this is, a democracy or something?
If only you were bothering to read the posts here, you’d see that jake has already provided a recipe for achieving change, which might be a little better for America than throwing a hissy fit every four years:
“Here’s a hint for all the non-traditional parties out there: Start small. Think state or even county government. It’s hard to take your asses seriously when you only pop up every four years, like some sort of narcoleptic groundhog.”
The reason that Nader gets the reaction he’s getting is that his contribution to the body politic has been as follows:
1. To whine, every four years like clockwork, that candidates named Ralph Nader are too allowed to be preznit!!!111!!.
2. To not lift a finger for candidates not named Ralph Nader.
If he cares that goddamn much about democracy, let him show it by trying to help get someone else elected. He ain’t bothered yet.
69.
DougJ
This is a solid thread. It’s not every day that I get called a quisling. Where did these Naderites come from? I hope they stay. They definitely liven things up.
70.
Lavocat
Thanks, Doug. I am NOT a Naderite, just a contrarian independent. Besides, I live in New York where my vote for Nader matters not.
But as ThymeZone has adroitly pointed out – Nader does NOT matter. And yet the Dems get their knickers in a twist EVERY damned time his name is mentioned. What does this tell you about the state of the party? Nothing that inspires confidence, THAT is for damned sure!
Dems need to stop being afraid of their own shadow and grow a pair of balls for once!
IGNORE Nader and let’s get on with The Asskicking To End All Asskickings!!! ThymeZone is right: THIS is going to be great fun to watch as the erstwhile Teflon GOP (that stands for “Global Orwellian Propaganda” by the way) Machine implodes.
LET’S GET IT ONNNNNNNNNNNNN!
71.
Lavocat
Anticorium:
Look, this has always been, and will always be, much ado about nothing. That the larger party of the duopoly that controls America has to concern itself with the mosquito that is Nader speaks volumes about WHY it hasn’t won an election in a long while. Dems have lost focus. If all they can do is wail about how they lost elections due to the effects of a very small third party, then they really do need to pack it in and let the adults govern.
And if the Dems think they can win an election with the elite’s Annointed One, they can think again. If eight years in the wilderness with Gore and Kerry were not enough, then, go ahead, enjoy another four with Clinton.
72.
Anticorium
Look, this has always been, and will always be, much ado about nothing.
Indeed it has: Nader has done nothing to improve the body politic, and cares nothing for doing anything that might risk doing so.
See, you want it to be about wah wah wah Demmycrats are all brutalizin’ Ralph, but it is about something simpler: he has no desire to effect change, as proven by his actions. Given that, why should he be taken seriously when he tries to run on a platform of change? He’s earned my derisive laugh.
73.
rachel
Nader = Pat Paulsen – teh funny.
74.
jake
Serious question: Name some Greens who have held elected positions. I’m not picky. If you know of a GP dog catcher, throw his name out there.
75.
Delia
I’ve already designed a bumpersticker for the man:
NADER IN ’08 — OR I’LL HOLD MY BREATH TILL I TURN BLUE!!
It’s what he deserves.
76.
Lavocat
That the man is even acknowledged as a potential threat by Dems and that he elicits such rabid kneejerk vitriol from them is endlessly amusing to me.
I will concede your point: Nader has done almost nothing to “improve the body politic”. And to that I say BIG FUCKING DEAL! If what you say is true, all the more reason that Nader should NOT be a concern to ANYONE. More to the point: WHY DO YOU CARE!!!!!?????
And yet Dems, by dint of their near-hysteria, clearly DO care. Very curious, dontcha think?
It speaks of an incredibly thin skin among Dems, yet it also speaks of a rarely acknowledged inferiority complex among Dems. A self-confident party is an inlcusive party, a party that can afford to be magnanimous. So, when a party goes out of its way to demonize a mosquito, one really has to wonder what the hell is going on!
And you’ve just gotta realize that Nader is enjoying the hell out of himself. He actually GETS the joke, and the joke is on the Dems, if they are not the joke themselves!
77.
Zifnab25
Serious question: Name some Greens who have held elected positions. I’m not picky. If you know of a GP dog catcher, throw his name out there.
A number of city council members and mayors. No congressmen at the national or state level, no judges, no DAs, although they do crop up on water boards and such often enough.
If the Greens wants to get serious, I’d love to see the Party start moving on the legislative branch of a state government. Honestly, my biggest problem with Nader is that he doesn’t seem willing or able to grow the party at the ground levels of power. But, while you can hold your nose and call him a shill for running for President, he gives the party more national exposure than any other 3rd Party competitor with the possible exception of the Libertarian Party.
If they were willing to expand the party at the local level, particularly in areas like the more liberal parts of California or in areas like Austin, TX (where the Dem party is on life support anyway), I’m convinced they could make serious inroads. Flipping Dem seats to Green Party seats would (I’m thinking) do two things – make Dems take the green wing of their party more seriously when they realize the people can and will break ranks for a 3rd Party. And while it scares the existing infrastructure straight, it’ll build a foundation for Greens to stand on, a place where the Party can build experience in. I just don’t think Green candidates know how to run for office. They need to win consistantly in order to build a formula for success. :p
78.
jake
But, while you can hold your nose and call him a shill for running for President, he gives the party more national exposure than any other 3rd Party competitor with the possible exception of the Libertarian Party.
Thanks for the list and I agree with what you say … Except there’s exposure and then there’s exposure. The Ralph Nader variety of exposure is on par with Paris Hilton getting out of a car variety of exposure.
They’ve got to get not just a better front man, but more than one front man. If Nader’s refusing to let the other kids have a turn, that tells you all you need to know about him. If the rest of the party is reluctant to give him the boot, that tells you a lot about them.
79.
Anticorium
And yet Dems, by dint of their near-hysteria, clearly DO care.
The only hysteria here is that he’s been evoking hysterical laughter. This is a definition of “care” that I have yet to encounter in the English language spoken by everybody but you.
80.
Birdzilla
Nader the nerd this dweeb thinks the american consumer is too dumb to make their own decisions we dont need this jerk in the whitehouse or its big brother in the kitchen
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Chris
Not really.
RandyH
He’s in? Did he announce on Meet the Press?
I’m in Pacific time zone, so wee don’t get it until later this morning.
Dork
Not a diff. Obama is the new, younger democratic Reagan. Charismatic, liberal, attractive (I’m told), and pugnacious. Nader is an old, foolish blowhard. Obama need not fear him.
I suspect he’ll blow about 10 mill total, garner 0.2% of the vote, and then immediately start planning for his “run” in 2012.
Pb
Heh. Here’s to Republicans funding Nader to suck away more of the McCain vote this time around. Jeez.
Dug Jay
Doubt it will matter. Obama likely already has in his corner all the nitwits that voted for Nader last time.
Zifnab
It might impact his life expectancy. I can definitely see a few people out to lynch him after 2000. But, at this point, I think we’ve all learned our lesson regarding the “Dems and Republicans are all the same” meme.
zsa
There was a time when it was a statement about the political system.
Now it’s just embarrassing.
GSD
This man won’t wear a U.S. flag lapel pin made in China.
He’s obviously unqualified for the job.
-GSD
TR
Well, not everyone. Ralph and his ego haven’t learned the lesson.
zzyzx
Yep it will. Those 8 people who will vote for him thinking they’re making some important statement will be SO stoked!
smiley
Nader tipped the 2000 vote to Bush. He knows that. Nader is a GOP tool.
RandyH
Now C-Span just showed the clip of him announcing on MTP and is asking what people think.
Well, I think it’s probably good. Those who could never bring themselves to vote for a black man (but they’re not racists, of course) now have somewhere other than McCain to put their vote. He won’t add up to much though and he’d most likely draw more from McCain than Obama.
taodon
Imagine how much more he could do for the country if he just donated the campaign funds he would use to charity instead. Oh wait – who gives a crap about helping people? What an egomaniac.
Adolphus
It might make a small difference if both Hillary wins and the two parties pursue a 51% strategy. In that case even a 5% vote swing one way or another will make a difference. Obama swings for the fences and will win or lose by a higher margin than Nader can affect.
Two things (I can think of this early on a Sunday morning) will mitigate his impact.
1. The green thing is not quite the niche issue it has been in the past. Even Main Stream Reps are advocating some of the things that made Nader radical 10 years ago.
2. After 7 years of Bush Nader’s “No difference between the two parties” spiel just doesn’t get the traction it did in 2000. There is a big difference and everyone knows it.
Svlad Jelly
I hope the Dems are smarter this year and offer Nader and his supporters something, like a Cabinet position. I always thought he’d be good heading the Labor Department.
Svlad Jelly
Adolphus Says: Imagine how much more he could do for the country if he just donated the campaign funds he would use to charity instead. Oh wait – who gives a crap about helping people? What an egomaniac.
Do you even know who Ralph Nader is?
Yeah.
The Grand Panjandrum
Now if we can just convince Buchanan and Perot to jump in we could call the General Election: Obama vs. the Grumpy Old Men.
Democrats are very motivated to end the insanity of this administration. On or about 5 March, Democrats will start uniting around the candidate and get on with the task of electing the party’s nominee to the White House.
rob!
go. away.
Sinister eyebrow
Oh for God’s sake. When will this narcissistic tool find something else to do to stoke his ego?
Ned R.
Ralph’s perfectly positioned to capture the Ron Paul voting bloc.
Graeme
I don’t think it will make a difference. He announced people are disillusioned but there has been record turnout. I think that’s a real disconnect. MUP shoved him aside pretty well, I thought, with this:
You know, he had called me and I think reached out to my campaign — my sense is is that Mr. Nader is somebody who, if you don’t listen and adopt all of his policies, thinks you’re not substantive. He seems to have a pretty high opinion of his own work. Now — and by the way, I have to say that, historically, he is a singular figure in American politics and has done as much as just about anybody on behalf of consumers. So in many ways he is a heroic figure and I don’t mean to diminish him. But I do think there is a sense now that if somebody is not hewing to the Ralph Nader agenda, then you must be lacking in some way.
4tehlulz
>>Do you even know who Ralph Nader is?
I do, and his “they’re both the same” cynicism helped give us Bush. That caused far more damage than his consumer advocacy has prevented. Fuck him.
Zifnab25
Fuck you.
The voter fraud in Maimi, the voter suppression throughout the United States, a corrupt Supreme Court, an ignorant electorate, a media willing to paint Al Gore as a liar and George Bush as a combat veteran, …
Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.
Nader’s got an ego, and he’s got a bad sense of how to grow as a politician. But I’d support him as a mayor, as a congressman, as a senator, as a governor. He’s smart, he’s capable, and he’s got a fantastic record. That his Green Party got hijacked by the Republican Party doesn’t make the Green Party’s message any less valid. And when this country moves left again, I’d love to see the Green Party fill in the gaps that the Democratic Party will inevitably leave exposed on the environment, on tax law, and on labor issues.
The Green Party is desperately needed in America. Nader might not be moving the party in the best direction, but he’s got a mission far more noble and disciplined than the yahoo Bush-fluffers at Red State or the Clintonistas like Taylor Marsh. Nader may still win my protest vote in November if Obama decides that clinching the nomination gives him the right to abandon the left.
Scott H
Nader, if they don’t completely ignore him, will get the other candidates to address the ‘Nader’ issues.
brendancalling
Zifnab:
“Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.”
You know, ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with you except for my experience in PA, where in the 2006 election, the Green Party was funded entirely by the GOP.
The Greens were thrown off the ballot for petition shenanigans.
FWIW: when it comes to state,municipal, and local offices, whenever there’s a green, socialist, communist, what-have-you (except nazis) I vote for the fringe candidate.
However, Nader is most definitely a tool. And one whose party has certainly played more than it’s share of ball with the GOP.
smiley
Wow. Is that a plank in the Green party platform?
4tehlulz
>>Wow. Is that a plank in the Green party platform?
Well, that would be additional proof of GOP/Green “cooperation”.
Bob In Pacifica
Well, it fits in with the flag pin, the gay lover, the lyin’ captain from Afghanistan and Hillary getting angry about Barack mentioning NAFTA. Hunkered down on the Pacific Coast, getting hammered by the storm coming in off the water, it seems that MSM and its little helpers are all going after Obama. Yeah, I’m disenchanted. Can I vote for a new MSM?
jeff
Did Harold Stassen make a difference?
curtadams
I was going to say that Nader seems to want to be the Harold Stassen of the 21st century. Except that Stassen actually won some campaigns, so I guess Nader is a more ridiculous 21st century version of Stassen.
Dave_Violence
Are we ready for an Arab-American president? Nadar is an ivy-league lawyer, so he’s certainly qualified, he’s tall, too.
Go for it, Ralph!
borehole
I don’t understand the anti-Nader vitriol. Okay, so he’s got no chance of actually winning, but at least his presence in the race moves the discussion somewhat leftward and pushes the top contenders to take economic issues and labor concerns more seriously than they would otherwise. Plus, his wife is incredibly impressive, and–this is shallow, I know, but it’s the TV age–he’s just so darned handsome.
What’s that? I’m thinking of Edwards?
Oh, that’s right. Nader’s the frumpy little scold who sits in front of a mirror practicing his announcement for a thousand-plus days at a stretch instead of working on behalf of that agenda he’s supposedly so passionate about. Fuck that guy.
Tom
Ralph Nader is a sickofant. Fuck him, fuck the green party and if I ever see this fuck stain in an airport, you will be reading about me in the newspapers.
ThymeZone
As suggested upthread, he is the Harold Stassen of our time.
I wish he would go away and write books about car safety or something. He was good at that.
nasrudin
former Democratic operative and current MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O’Donnell, speaking in An Unreasonable Man:
“If you want to pull the party–the major party that is closest to the way you’re thinking–to what you’re thinking, YOU MUST, YOU MUST show them that you’re capable of not voting for them. If you don’t show them you’re capable of not voting for them, they don’t…have…to listen to you. I promise you that. I worked within the Democratic Party. I didn’t listen, or have to listen, to anything on the left while I was working in the Democratic Party, because the left had nowhere to go.”
http://www.distantocean.com/2007/11/the-one-thing-t.html
demimondian
Nader is an embarrassing clown. He won’t change the outcome of this election any more than he changed the outcome of the 2004 election — which is fine, since he’d already done the damage he was going to do.
I think the appropriate parallel, though, is to John Anderson’s 1980 run, which (among other things) gave Democrats who couldn’t vote for Clinton some place to run to. My guess is that Nader or some other third party candidate will be the place that moderate elephants hide this year if they can’t make themselves vote donkey. Given our system, those will effectively be votes for the Dem.
wasabi gasp
Nader sees America as a defective product and wants it off the market.
Jon H
“Of all the GOP tools in the United States right now, you want to throw in Ralph Fucking Nader? You are so far off base, I don’t even know if you should be allowed to post on politics again.”
Ralph took Republican money in 2004.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Nader is Rove’s monkey now.
J. Michael Neal
He’s also unbelievably dishonest. Here’s Mark Kleiman on him.
Just to get John’s blood pressure going, here he is on the Terri Schiavo case.
mclaren
Nader will make no difference in 2008. Anyone remember the Rage Against the Machine music video on the eve of the 2000 election? The one directed by Michael Moore? The music video that created the impression that there was basically no difference at all between Gore and the sociopath who is now torturing people from the Oval Office?
Man. How wrong could they get it? That was what made Nader a factor. Today, everyone knows the stakes. Four more years of torture? Or do we want the constitution back? Four more years without habeas corpus? Four more years of edited scientific papers, official lies about WMDs, illegal kidnapping to black sites outside the U.S…. No, this time we all know the difference Obama and the other guy.
Nader will be lucky if he doesn’t get The Pharaohs treatment from American Grafitti.
RICHARD DREYFUS: “What happened to your last initiate?”
HEAD OF THE PHARAOHS: “We tied him to the car and dragged him.”
stuck in 200
Nader did some good work in the ’60’s and ’70’s, but he’s been lost in his own hype for decades. A company I worked for did some work for him in the ’80’s and I can tell you that as a businessman he was every bit as sleazy as the companies he was on a “crusade” against. For one thing, he didn’t believe in paying his bills – I missed paychecks because of his crap.
Bitter? Why yes – but I’d go through it again twice if it could have prevented his little exercise in heightening the contradictions in 2000.
Stoic
Yeah, he has the Overweening Narcissist vote all tied up. We’re doomed.
Suzan
I say no difference, but this guy says it better:
http://www.236.com/blog/w/election08/message_to_ralph_nader_from_an_4373.php
Lavocat
Let’s see: there was allegedly no difference between the two major parties, right!?
With King George now impeached, the last U.S. troops out of Iraq – for lack of funds from Congress, and the war won in Afghanistan – for a surfeit of funding, the Patriot Act and FISA now rescinded, and progressive taxation now fully restored, I would have to agree that Ralph Nader firmly had his head up his …
Oh, wait ..
What a bunch of fucking self-deluded morons you apologist quisling Dems are!!!!!
Should Obama NOT get the nomination, this is one independent who will be voting for Ralph Nader a THIRD time.
4tehlulz
Fixed.
jake
Yes. The 2008 election cycle just became 50% more amusing and the useless wanker quotient just shot up 80%. I hope the band plays “Send in the Clowns,” every time he takes the stage.
Here’s a hint for all the non-traditional parties out there: Start small. Think state or even county government. It’s hard to take your asses seriously when you only pop up every four years, like some sort of narcoleptic groundhog.
Lavocat
Yeah, you gotta love it. The Dems have all the opportunities in the world to make good on their Crusade Against Evil and after they piss away each and EVERY one of them, AND they get called on it by The Pissed Off Electorate (myself very much included), their detractors (i.e., the American Public at large) get called “enablers of the GOP”.
Seriously, you can’t make this shit up. What color is the sky in your world, pray tell?
Jon H
Probably the best response would be for individuals, unconnected to any campaign, to put on the most lunatic Larouchian sandwichboards possible and go out in the cities campaigning for Nader.
There was a guy in Chicago, might still be there, whose sandwichboard claimed that Gore had been replaced by a clone, among other bizarre theories. If that guy were pushing Nader, well, it wouldn’t help Nader.
(Some Nader supporters would no doubt believe every crazy thing. They’re like that.)
Lavocat
What continues to amaze me is that some fool like Nader can “announce his intentions” and thereby send the entire Democratic Party into paroxysms of denial. Oh, the horror!
My, my! Remember when the adults used to be in control? Of EITHER party? I do!
My GOD, that is rich! First, before casting the first stone, the Dems need to become vertebrates again. And living in glass houses is probably a bad idea, too!
DougJ
John has written that third parties candidates make him think of the XFL. I propose that Nader be allowed to participate in the debates if he wears a He Hate Me starter jersey
Lavocat
Why give Americans more than two choices? What do you think this is, a democracy or something? Democracy is only useful when the elites can pre-determine the outcome. Otherwise, it’s just too dangerous.
Sasha
If it were McCain vs. Clinton, perhaps. But if Obama is the nominee, I doubt it. The MUP is sufficiently out-of-the-establishment to appeal to most Naderites.
Helena Montana
Ralph Nader is Karl Rove’s bitch.
jake
Vote Nader/McKinney in ’08!
Or we’ll beat you with our cell phones.
Todd Alcott
A friend of mine voted for Nader in 2000 (he was in New York, where it couldn’t have made a difference). This year I told him “If you vote for Nader in November, I’ll kill you.” He said that would make a good bumper sticker.
Asti
Honestly? I think this is Ralph Nader’s time to get a hard lesson in reality and realize it doesn’t work anymore. He did it twice and stole votes that were desperately needed elsewhere and I think people will wise up this time.
J sub D
Late night talk show writers report that this will make a positve difference in their job satisfaction.
Anne Laurie
If Nader had been willing to “settle” for running for mayor/congressman/senator/governor 25 years ago, he could have ended up as a serious presidential candidate today. (Or he could have realized that running an electorate is harder than running his mouth. And that his lifelong habit of treating volunteers, contributors, and businesses as interchangeable disposables to be used up and discarded isn’t viable above the solitary-messiah level.) But anyone paying enough attention to politics to be reading blogs like Balloon Juice knows Nader’s openly been taking money from the GOP since at least 2002, so the only difference he’s liable to make in this year’s election is that he’ll give maxed-out McCain contributors a new place to flush their remaining funds and anti-Democratic resentments.
Rick Taylor
Nader in 2008! Because eight years of a Republican administration just aren’t enough!
I have no idea if he’ll have any effect on the election outcome or not; I gave up making horse race predictions after being convinced it would be impossible for our commander in chief to win a second term after he’d demonstrably lead us into a conflict under completely false pretenses that looked to be of indefinite extent, and would cost us huge amounts in blood and treasure. I will say with confidence however that Ralph Nader is an unmitigated arrogant .
capelza
Is he getting GOP money again this time?
And yes, we want MORE GOP judges on the bench..that’s just so awesome! Go Nader. Gack.
JR
What a bunch of fucking self-deluded morons you apologist quisling Dems are!!
I triple that. Well said. As far as I’m concerned, take the anti-Nader crap to DailyKos. Ralph runs to have a microphone to speak Truth to Power, and damn if it isn’t the Dem activists who keep shouting him down.
Whenever Dem apologists start up with this vitriol against Nader, who has been telling the truth about the Democratic Party for years, it immediately descends into a worldview-gnashing-against-reality hatefest like DailyKos has become.
This is the exact unwinnable argument that has eaten up the harmony and purpose of the Dem base: “Nader was right about the Dems and We Have A Problem” vs. “Dems Need a Scapegoat.” Then people who care to support those who actually FIGHT for the middle class have to defend Nader, and argue, and take smears from people whose arguments become holding ears in their fingers and humming loudly.
Problem is, Nader WAS right and the Dems have only proven it with each passing month. If you say there is a big obvious difference between Parties being demonstated, it may in your view of it, but not in reality.
And THERE lies the problem: people who will not see reality. It is encapsulated in the Nader hatred by “progressive” big-tent reform Dems.
JR
Has the dumbing down been completed? We need 10 Thousand Naders, not to tear apart one we have.
You would think from all the self-inflated gas about the Democratic Party being wrongfully “derailed” by a Nader candidacy, that people here actually believe the Dems are about to solve this conundrum of unchecked Executive Power, end the war and begin to defend themselves instead of acting as weak proxies to enforce the Right Wing meme.
That’s it, kill off the few who are fighting. Bravo Dems!
ThymeZone
Nader is telling a big lie, and the whores at NBC have to give him a platform he does not deserve on which to stand and tell it.
The big lie is wrapped in a truth, which is that our democracy wouldn’t be one if only two parties owned all the votes. Nader said almost these exact words today.
Those words are true. The big lie is that Nader is not a real candidate. He can’t win, has no chance of getting enough votes to qualify for anything. He runs outside the system because he cant get the support he needs to be a viable candidate in a party primary scenario. He abuses this process to give himself a platform to get attention, get on tv, and make speeches that nobody would otherwise pay any attention to. He can’t win, he knows he can’t win, he can’t do anything except be a pain in the ass. So he becomes a parasite on the democratic process and then wants to use that process as a cover for his abusive behavior.
He’s an asshole. He’s a fake, and a liar, and why NBC gives him a microphone, I have no idea.
firebrand
If Hillary, in some insane circumstance, ends up getting the nomination, Nader will definitely matter. If it’s Obama who gets it, then Nader doesn’t stand a chance.
ThymeZone
You can’t be serious. Nader has never stood a chance, and between the first and second times he ran, his vote percentage dropped by about 75%. He got less that one percent of the vote in 2004.
He has no money and no organization. No support, and no mechanism for getting any.
WTF?
Splitting Image
I don’t subscribe to the theory that Nader cost the Democrats the 2000 election.
If you check out this website
http://electoral-vote.com/evp2004/dec/dec31.html
and look at the analysis of the 2004 vote versus 2000, it seems that Nader was taking votes from both parties in 2000 in proportion to their relative level of supports. He took more votes from Republicans in red states (which went to Bush in 2004) and more votes from Democrats in blue states (which went to Kerry).
For example:
Utah 2000: 26.5% Gore, 67.2% Bush, 4.7% Nader.
Utah 2004: 26.4% Kerry, 71.1% Bush, 1.3% Nader.
Vermont 2000: 50.7% Gore, 40.8% Bush, 6.9% Nader.
Vermont 2004: 59.1% Kerry, 38.9% Bush, 1.4% Nader.
If anything, the electoral-vote map seems to show more Nader votes going to the Republicans in 2004 than to the Democrats. That strongly suggests that the Nader votes in Florida were evenly split between the two parties and places the blame for Gore’s loss on the butterfly ballot which gave 2000 Gore votes to Buchanan and the halted recount process, rather than Ralph Nader.
As for 2008, I don’t think he’ll be a factor. He took a lot of votes in 2000 because people didn’t see much of a difference between the two parties, and did much worse in 2004 because people made a strong distinction between Kerry and Bush. I think there is an even more marked difference between Obama and McCain, which doesn’t leave a lot of room for Nader to pick up votes.
I think he’ll pick up a few Democrats who can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man, and some Republicans who want to show Mr. Straight Talk what a real maverick looks like. I doubt he’ll crack 1%.
Asti
If someone can’t bring themselves to vote for a black man, I wonder why they would call themselves a Democrat?
Anticorium
What do you think this is, a democracy or something?
If only you were bothering to read the posts here, you’d see that jake has already provided a recipe for achieving change, which might be a little better for America than throwing a hissy fit every four years:
“Here’s a hint for all the non-traditional parties out there: Start small. Think state or even county government. It’s hard to take your asses seriously when you only pop up every four years, like some sort of narcoleptic groundhog.”
The reason that Nader gets the reaction he’s getting is that his contribution to the body politic has been as follows:
1. To whine, every four years like clockwork, that candidates named Ralph Nader are too allowed to be preznit!!!111!!.
2. To not lift a finger for candidates not named Ralph Nader.
If he cares that goddamn much about democracy, let him show it by trying to help get someone else elected. He ain’t bothered yet.
DougJ
This is a solid thread. It’s not every day that I get called a quisling. Where did these Naderites come from? I hope they stay. They definitely liven things up.
Lavocat
Thanks, Doug. I am NOT a Naderite, just a contrarian independent. Besides, I live in New York where my vote for Nader matters not.
But as ThymeZone has adroitly pointed out – Nader does NOT matter. And yet the Dems get their knickers in a twist EVERY damned time his name is mentioned. What does this tell you about the state of the party? Nothing that inspires confidence, THAT is for damned sure!
Dems need to stop being afraid of their own shadow and grow a pair of balls for once!
IGNORE Nader and let’s get on with The Asskicking To End All Asskickings!!! ThymeZone is right: THIS is going to be great fun to watch as the erstwhile Teflon GOP (that stands for “Global Orwellian Propaganda” by the way) Machine implodes.
LET’S GET IT ONNNNNNNNNNNNN!
Lavocat
Anticorium:
Look, this has always been, and will always be, much ado about nothing. That the larger party of the duopoly that controls America has to concern itself with the mosquito that is Nader speaks volumes about WHY it hasn’t won an election in a long while. Dems have lost focus. If all they can do is wail about how they lost elections due to the effects of a very small third party, then they really do need to pack it in and let the adults govern.
And if the Dems think they can win an election with the elite’s Annointed One, they can think again. If eight years in the wilderness with Gore and Kerry were not enough, then, go ahead, enjoy another four with Clinton.
Anticorium
Look, this has always been, and will always be, much ado about nothing.
Indeed it has: Nader has done nothing to improve the body politic, and cares nothing for doing anything that might risk doing so.
See, you want it to be about wah wah wah Demmycrats are all brutalizin’ Ralph, but it is about something simpler: he has no desire to effect change, as proven by his actions. Given that, why should he be taken seriously when he tries to run on a platform of change? He’s earned my derisive laugh.
rachel
Nader = Pat Paulsen – teh funny.
jake
Serious question: Name some Greens who have held elected positions. I’m not picky. If you know of a GP dog catcher, throw his name out there.
Delia
I’ve already designed a bumpersticker for the man:
NADER IN ’08 — OR I’LL HOLD MY BREATH TILL I TURN BLUE!!
It’s what he deserves.
Lavocat
That the man is even acknowledged as a potential threat by Dems and that he elicits such rabid kneejerk vitriol from them is endlessly amusing to me.
I will concede your point: Nader has done almost nothing to “improve the body politic”. And to that I say BIG FUCKING DEAL! If what you say is true, all the more reason that Nader should NOT be a concern to ANYONE. More to the point: WHY DO YOU CARE!!!!!?????
And yet Dems, by dint of their near-hysteria, clearly DO care. Very curious, dontcha think?
It speaks of an incredibly thin skin among Dems, yet it also speaks of a rarely acknowledged inferiority complex among Dems. A self-confident party is an inlcusive party, a party that can afford to be magnanimous. So, when a party goes out of its way to demonize a mosquito, one really has to wonder what the hell is going on!
And you’ve just gotta realize that Nader is enjoying the hell out of himself. He actually GETS the joke, and the joke is on the Dems, if they are not the joke themselves!
Zifnab25
Here’s the full list.
A number of city council members and mayors. No congressmen at the national or state level, no judges, no DAs, although they do crop up on water boards and such often enough.
If the Greens wants to get serious, I’d love to see the Party start moving on the legislative branch of a state government. Honestly, my biggest problem with Nader is that he doesn’t seem willing or able to grow the party at the ground levels of power. But, while you can hold your nose and call him a shill for running for President, he gives the party more national exposure than any other 3rd Party competitor with the possible exception of the Libertarian Party.
If they were willing to expand the party at the local level, particularly in areas like the more liberal parts of California or in areas like Austin, TX (where the Dem party is on life support anyway), I’m convinced they could make serious inroads. Flipping Dem seats to Green Party seats would (I’m thinking) do two things – make Dems take the green wing of their party more seriously when they realize the people can and will break ranks for a 3rd Party. And while it scares the existing infrastructure straight, it’ll build a foundation for Greens to stand on, a place where the Party can build experience in. I just don’t think Green candidates know how to run for office. They need to win consistantly in order to build a formula for success. :p
jake
Thanks for the list and I agree with what you say … Except there’s exposure and then there’s exposure. The Ralph Nader variety of exposure is on par with Paris Hilton getting out of a car variety of exposure.
They’ve got to get not just a better front man, but more than one front man. If Nader’s refusing to let the other kids have a turn, that tells you all you need to know about him. If the rest of the party is reluctant to give him the boot, that tells you a lot about them.
Anticorium
And yet Dems, by dint of their near-hysteria, clearly DO care.
The only hysteria here is that he’s been evoking hysterical laughter. This is a definition of “care” that I have yet to encounter in the English language spoken by everybody but you.
Birdzilla
Nader the nerd this dweeb thinks the american consumer is too dumb to make their own decisions we dont need this jerk in the whitehouse or its big brother in the kitchen