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You are here: Home / Ask Not Who Your Country Can Torture For You

Ask Not Who Your Country Can Torture For You

by Tim F|  February 29, 200811:29 pm| 49 Comments

This post is in: General Stupidity

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When you’re a national politician, it must be a great feeling when the country starts to unambiguously follow your lead.

A supervisor at a motivational coaching business in Provo is accused of waterboarding an employee in front of his sales team to demonstrate that they should work as hard on sales as the employee had worked to breathe.

In a lawsuit filed last month, former Prosper, Inc. salesman Chad Hudgens alleges his managers also allowed the supervisor to draw mustaches on employees’ faces, take away their chairs and beat on their desks with a wooden paddle “because it resulted in increased revenues for the company.”

Dear wingnuttia – torture isn’t about who they are, it’s about who we are. It’s about who we become. It’s about how torture eats away at a country’s soul. Take notes next time.

via.

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Reader Interactions

49Comments

  1. 1.

    GSD

    February 29, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Bush is preparing to leave our democracy a scavenged carcass that has been picked over and left to rot in the dark basement.

    Our treasury drained, our military battered, our reputation destroyed and our national will twisted into that of a vengeful conquerer.

    Heckuva job.

    -GSD

  2. 2.

    Martin

    February 29, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Best. Country. Ever.

  3. 3.

    rachel

    February 29, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    If those salesguys are innocent, they have nothing to fear.

  4. 4.

    jake

    March 1, 2008 at 12:06 am

    As much as I hate to do it, I’m going to pass on an opportunity to snark on the bAdmin and Utah.

    There’s plenty of shit we can hang around Bush’s neck without resorting to the allegations in a law suit against a sales team leader. And Utah … well, it’s Utah. Insert your own joke.

  5. 5.

    Z

    March 1, 2008 at 12:10 am

    Yes… torture advocates… right wing bedwetters… fear mongers of all stripes… Z+1 asks Do you feel safe?

  6. 6.

    Ninerdave

    March 1, 2008 at 12:11 am

    I say this only in half jest…give them the southern part of the states, say Georgia and below and let them form their own fuckin’ country.

    They obviously don’t understand ours.

  7. 7.

    Amit Joshi

    March 1, 2008 at 12:12 am

    torture isn’t about who they are, it’s about who we are. It’s about who we become

    Well said, John! Very well said. Unfortunately, this is too subtle for the party of evolution deniers.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    March 1, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Bush is preparing to leave our democracy a scavenged carcass that has been picked over and left to rot in the dark basement.

    Our treasury drained, our military battered, our reputation destroyed and our national will twisted into that of a vengeful conquerer.

    Heckuva job.

    Indeed. Al Queda must be proud.

    Their little cocksucker has done what no enemy, foreign or domestic, ever managed.

  9. 9.

    demimondian

    March 1, 2008 at 12:21 am

    torture isn’t about who they are, it’s about who we are. It’s about who we become

    Well said, John!

    For instance, it appears that torture causes Tim F. to become John.

    Which is sad, because what Tim said is exactly right: torture is not only wrong, but self-destructive.

  10. 10.

    srv

    March 1, 2008 at 12:46 am

    Provo, Mosul, what’s the difference? If it’s good enough for the Muslims, it’s good enough for the Mormons.

  11. 11.

    Seanly

    March 1, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Did anyone notice that it was a motivational coaching company? I’d hate to see what they suggested to their clients…

  12. 12.

    tBone

    March 1, 2008 at 1:09 am

    What if there were a rogue customer loose in a major American city, and you had only 24 hours to sell him something? Waterboarding is an unpleasant but necessary option when you’re under those kind of time constraints.

    Sorry to you all you bleeding hearts, but taking torture off the table could result in the utter collapse of capitalism. Are you willing to take that chance? Are you??

  13. 13.

    Delia

    March 1, 2008 at 1:21 am

    What if there were a rogue customer loose in a major American city, and you had only 24 hours to sell him something? Waterboarding is an unpleasant but necessary option when you’re under those kind of time constraints.

    Sorry to you all you bleeding hearts, but taking torture off the table could result in the utter collapse of capitalism. Are you willing to take that chance? Are you??

    Well, I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition.

  14. 14.

    Jon H

    March 1, 2008 at 1:56 am

    “allowed the supervisor to draw mustaches on employees’ faces”

    My money’s on that ‘mustache’ being the old dirty sanchez.

  15. 15.

    Buck

    March 1, 2008 at 5:17 am

    I say this only in half jest….guys like George Bush are the reason Georgia didn’t want to be governed by fuckin’ Yankees.

  16. 16.

    AkaDad

    March 1, 2008 at 6:14 am

    Asking for a raise there must be torturous.

  17. 17.

    SGEW

    March 1, 2008 at 7:49 am

    Since I have the book handy, here’s my quote for the day:

    “(I)f (a governmental body) should be actuated by sinister ambition and a lust of meretricious glory, then the feeble part of the (governmental body), to whom at first they conform, becomes in turn the dupe and instrument of their designs. In this political traffic, the leaders will be obliged to bow to the ignorance of their followers, and the followers to become subservient to the worst designs of their leaders.“

    Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France.

    He was talking about the Jacobins, of course, but the warning is universal.

  18. 18.

    maxbaer (not the original)

    March 1, 2008 at 8:39 am

    It’s only a matter of time before it becomes one of the hottest crazes on campus. Waterboarding parties! Combined with liberal amounts of alcohol, how can that go wrong?

  19. 19.

    Svensker

    March 1, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Waterboarding parties! Combined with liberal conservative amounts of alcohol, how can that go wrong?

    Fixed. Liberals don’t do torture.

  20. 20.

    tBone

    March 1, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Well, I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition.

    Fetch the comfy chair!

  21. 21.

    r€nato

    March 1, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Coffee is for closers! Everybody else gets waterboarded.

  22. 22.

    Chris Johnson

    March 1, 2008 at 10:40 am

    I’m just speechless. Too ridiculous.

  23. 23.

    SamFromUtah

    March 1, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    And Utah … well, it’s Utah. Insert your own joke.

    Sigh… I can’t think of any. Can’t say I’m surprised it was in Provo, though. Provo is to Utah what Utah is to the rest of the U.S.

  24. 24.

    Delia

    March 1, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    I grew up in Logan. Everyone in Logan thinks Provo is for dorks, although Logan certainly has its share. Notice that the guy’s co-workers all held him down just like they were told while he was being tortured. How’s that for teamwork?

  25. 25.

    bains

    March 1, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Amazing… well actually not – it is sadly typical. Typical of intellectually dishonest partisans to view everything through a prism of political expedience. Hey Tim, crap like this has been going on forever. And guess what? Here is the USA we have a legal system to punish those that break the law.

    But I’m sure your largely mindless choir will gleefully and willingly buy your idiotic suggestion that what is alleged to have happened in a private firm in Utah is directly Bush’s fault.

  26. 26.

    DougJ

    March 1, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    his managers also allowed the supervisor to draw mustaches on employees’ faces, take away their chairs and beat on their desks with a wooden paddle “because it resulted in increased revenues for the company.”

    Did it actually increase revenues for the company? I’d like to see their quarterly reports.

  27. 27.

    Dave_Violence

    March 1, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Fascinating. My gut instinct is to call “bullshit” on the story. Sure, the manager waterboarded an employee. Yep, happens all the time.

    AND WE ARE WILLING TO BELIEVE IT. Naturally, because it just has to be true: this is what life is like in the US all the time. North Korea can’t even approach the horrible terrors of living inside the US Gulag-state.

    Nevertheless, the employee is suing, so something happened. Any lawyer worth his ginormous salary and bonus would be an idiot to take the suit – unless there really was something to it.

    Interpretation: people of all walks of life will do whatever they think they can get away with. This manager isn’t getting away with abusing a worker. In a real police state, there’d be no story, no outrage, nada. In fact, the worker would most likely be dead. Instead, he stands to get a huge amount of money with his manager getting in big trouble.

    Did the manager think he could get away with it? Yeah. But why? Is it because the US military does this stuff regularly? No: it’s because he is a megalomaniacal tyrant (like many managers…) and has lost touch with reality. The lawsuit will bring him down.

  28. 28.

    Hamlette

    March 1, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    I’ve dealt with this company at work. They charge people $10,000 for what amounts to a get rich quick course. For that they get 12 telephone sessions with a “coach”. The coaches are basically snake oil salesmen.

    I want to know who pays for this stuff. If the coach really knew how to get rich quick would he or she still be working in a creepy job like this?

  29. 29.

    Tim F.

    March 1, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    Nice shooting, Dave_Violence. You sure messed those straw guys up good.

  30. 30.

    Delia

    March 1, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Here’s what we need. How To Make Torture Eco-Friendly

  31. 31.

    Tax Analyst

    March 1, 2008 at 8:41 pm

    Hamlette Says:

    I’ve dealt with this company at work. They charge people $10,000 for what amounts to a get rich quick course. For that they get 12 telephone sessions with a “coach”. The coaches are basically snake oil salesmen.

    Well, then I withdraw any objection to the torture.

    Sounds like a great place to work even without the vice-grips on your nuts if you fail to meet your Sales Quota some month.

  32. 32.

    bains

    March 1, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    You know Tim, it is rich you calling straw man on a rebuttal to your fallacy laden initial post.

    Make sure you blithely accuse me of residence in “wingnuttia.” But within your back-patting, your anti-whatever- circle jerk, you are merely projecting.

    Then chime in chorus, and support your very own snake-oil salesman.

  33. 33.

    bains

    March 1, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    You know Tim, it is rich you calling straw man on a rebuttal to your fallacy laden initial post.

    Make sure you blithely accuse me of residence in “wingnuttia.” But within your back-patting, your anti-whatever- circle jerk, you are merely projecting.

    Then chime in chorus, and support your very own snake-oil salesman.

  34. 34.

    yet another jeff

    March 1, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    Coffee is for closers! Everybody else gets waterboarded.

    Glengarry Guantanamo! The winner gets a Cadillac Escalade, the 2nd place guy gets steak knives. Third place? Waterboard!

  35. 35.

    Tim F.

    March 1, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    You know Tim, it is rich you calling straw man on a rebuttal to your fallacy laden initial post.

    Given that the rebuttal tilted at a series of strawmen, it would have been patronizing to treat it otherwise. At least Dave merited a response; I usually ignore people like you who can’t tell the difference between ad hominem and argument.

  36. 36.

    bains

    March 2, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    I usually ignore people like you who can’t tell the difference between ad hominem and argument.

    Having read you since Cole brought you on board, you do ignore many people… and many facts as well. Of course my comment was causticly written – I’m just responding in kind to the tone of your post.

    As with the rest of the contributors here at BJ, nearly all you offer is shrill hyperbole that moistens partisan’s crotches yet drives reasonable folks away. I used to read this site regularly, but these days only when I feel contentious. There is, unfortunately, only temporary benefit in smacking down your illogic – temporary because you guys don’t give a hoot about logic or accuracy, your petulance and agenda is all consuming – you refuse to honestly engage those with whom you differ.

    It is you that can not differentiate. Whereas you think your ad hominem’s are ‘reality-based’ witticisms, my replies are insultingly accurate and founded in reason.

    So Tim, do tell how what is alleged to have happened in Utah, attributable to the current administration. You can’t because to try and do so would be even more idiotic than your “original” post.
    (and for the reality-impaired-based reader, that insult was, in fact, intended.)
    You want intelligent and honest discussions? Try writing intelligent and honest posts.

  37. 37.

    Tim F.

    March 2, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Bains, you would have more of a point if you could find a single example of corporate waterboarding before 2001. In fact I would be impressed if you could come up with any earlier case of corporate misbehavior that unequivocally mirrored the geneva-violating policies of reprehensible regimes such as the Khmer Rouge, imperial Japanese etc. Maybe Arthur Anderson drove bamboo slivers under the fingernails of underperforming partners? Check it out and get back to me.

  38. 38.

    bains

    March 2, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    No Tim, I’ve plenty a point. You first show how the Utah case is inexorably tied to GWBush. Proximity is not causality.

  39. 39.

    Tim F.

    March 2, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    Nice work bains. I will read that as you acknowledging that you can’t find any support for your claim that businesses always did this.

  40. 40.

    TenguPhule

    March 2, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    bains says: There is, unfortunately, only temporary benefit in smacking down your illogic – temporary because you guys don’t give a hoot about logic or accuracy, your petulance and agenda is all consuming – you refuse to honestly engage those with whom you differ.

    Irony of the day.

  41. 41.

    TenguPhule

    March 2, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Is it because the US military does this stuff regularly? No: it’s because he is a megalomaniacal tyrant (like many managers…) and has lost touch with reality.

    Leading by example, the Republican way.

    Or in terms the idiots can understand.

    Shit rolls downhill.

  42. 42.

    TenguPhule

    March 2, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Here is the USA we have a legal system to punish those that break the law.

    Yes and it doesn’t work.

    See Gonzales, Alberto.

  43. 43.

    bains

    March 2, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    I will read that as you acknowledging that you can’t find any support for your claim

    Of course you will – it’s a cheap tactic used by partisan hacks when they know that their audience cares not for truth, only sticky wet crotches.

    I’m not here to sway your choir – they lap up your expectorant as if it were heaven’s nectar. You still havent defended your idiotic claim past the bromides that your acolates lovingly swallow.

    Prove that what is alleged to have happened in Utah is attributable to GWBush. It is, after all, your claim.

    Proximity is not causality… you partisan hack.

  44. 44.

    DougJ

    March 2, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Of course you will – it’s a cheap tactic used by partisan hacks when they know that their audience cares not for truth, only sticky wet crotches.

    Huh? How did sticky wet crotches enter into this?

  45. 45.

    DougJ

    March 2, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    Sticky wet countertops, I can see, but why crotches? I know everything is sexual at some level but why here, why now?

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule

    March 2, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Prove that what is alleged to have happened in Utah is attributable to GWBush. It is, after all, your claim.

    Bush okays torture.

    Bush is not punished for okaying torture.

    Republicans say torture is nothing serious.

    Republicans are not beaten to within an inch of their lives for saying torture is no big deal.

    Public perception of torture is turned from ‘torture is Unamerican’ to ‘Torture is shits and giggles’

    Torture starts becoming mainstream.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    March 2, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Huh? How did sticky wet crotches enter into this?

    bains got paged.

  48. 48.

    bains

    March 3, 2008 at 4:26 am

    TenguPhule = choir

    Throw all the ad hominems you wish, you’ve already proved my point about this site. You and your idealogical brethren are just to stupid to realize it.

    And I’m sure that your crotches will get wet when you dream up your latest retort.

    Hey, how about you show us your ‘brilliance’ with another insipid “shorter ___.”

  49. 49.

    Tim F.

    March 3, 2008 at 10:00 am

    bains, use the brains that god gave you. Why did you argue that this happens all the time? The thought had to come from somewhere. Maybe it occurred to you this if this sort of thing has not happened before then the trend had to come from somewhere. Indeed, if you can come up with a single corporate waterboarding before 2001 I will give you five bucks.

    So where would our brave corporate warriors have first heard about this waterboarding thing? Unless his daddy was a Japanese captive in WWII the answer should be obvious even to someone like you. In fact it was, and I can tell because you tried to argue against it. Now back up your argument.

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