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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / The Dog Ate My Mideast Policy

The Dog Ate My Mideast Policy

by Tim F|  March 3, 200811:41 pm| 68 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, General Stupidity

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Can’t put it much better than the Bradrocket. When you look at the glorious hash that our great leader made of elections in Palestine certain trends ought to stand out – we casually interfered in another country based on “plans” that could best be described as fanciful. We didn’t have a fallback plan. When things didn’t work out as expected we panicked and made a series of sloppy decisions that just made the situation worse. Then we threw in guns and support to an armed faction that lost.

FAIL

Ten more months.

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68Comments

  1. 1.

    Asti

    March 3, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    Condoleezza Rice told reporters. “I don’t know anyone who wasn’t caught off guard by Hamas’s strong showing.”

    No one could have forseen….

    Can we finally send this woman packing and off to the Russian tundra where she belongs?

  2. 2.

    scarshapedstar

    March 4, 2008 at 12:10 am

    I’m not going to look, but does anyone know how Charles Johnson is rationalizing this shit?

  3. 3.

    incontrolados

    March 4, 2008 at 12:25 am

    Can we finally send this woman packing and off to the Russian tundra where she belongs?

    She speaks the language poorly, so that’s probably not a good idea.

    Republican pardons work out much better than Democratic pardons.

  4. 4.

    IanY77

    March 4, 2008 at 12:31 am

    I held my nose and checked. He’s ignoring it. To be fair, the only blog close to being called “major” is pro-Israel, fairly hard right “Israel Matzav”:

    Is this believable? In a word, yes. David Wurmser has been a severe critic of White House Middle East policy since he resigned as Cheney’s adviser. His wife Meyrav has also indicated that the Bush administration abandoned Israel as a consequence of its failure to produce in the 2006 Lebanon War. Meyrav Wurmser is an Israeli; David is an American. Their commitment to Israel has been unstinting.

    This story just broke. Wait til tomorrow night. Then we’ll know how much traction it’ll get. In a functional democracy, this would be impeachable. In the US, it’ll get a meh from the bewtowrks, ignored by Fox News, Drudge, and talk radio, and will pass in a week. I’m going to go bang my head on the desk for a bir, then finish off that bottle of Black Bush I have in the kitchen (seriously).

    Here’s the Vanity Fair story. Read and weep.

  5. 5.

    IanY77

    March 4, 2008 at 12:33 am

    wow, spazzed on the keyboard. No idea why the spell checker didn’t catch it. I meant to say:

    “it’ll get a meh from the networks, ignored by Fox News…”

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:52 am

    How have we survived the last seven years? Through what miracle of God are we not all dead by now? Or is it His cruel sense of humor that forces us all to live through it?

    QOTD.

  7. 7.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:52 am

    Can we finally send this woman packing and off to the Russian tundra where she belongs?

    If even half of this is true, Rice and company belong under the tundra, not on it.

  8. 8.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 12:59 am

    There isn’t a whole lot of difference between Fatah and Hamas. The election was a lose lose situation. Neither has ever intended to make peace with Israel. Fatah has tried at times to present a better face to the world but they have never given up on the idea of the destruction of Israel. Who won the election didn’t really matter.

  9. 9.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 1:01 am

    MJ says: Who won the election didn’t really matter.

    Apparently it did since Bush sent a whole bunch of guns to the side that LOST which Hamas then captured and turned on Israel.

    Try again, dumbass.

  10. 10.

    Martin

    March 4, 2008 at 1:08 am

    BUSH: Well, I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands freedom where it doesn’t matter who you are or how you’re raised or where you’re from, that you can succeed. I don’t think they’ll look at us with envy. It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If we’re an arrogant nation, they’ll resent us. If we’re a humble nation, but strong, they’ll welcome us. And it’s — our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and that’s why we have to be humble. And yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom. So I don’t think they ought to look at us in any way other than what we are. We’re a freedom-loving nation and if we’re an arrogant nation they’ll view us that way, but if we’re a humble nation they’ll respect us.

    BUSH: I do. I do think this, though. When it comes to timetables it can’t be the United States timetable as to how discussions take place. It’s got to be a timetable that all parties can agree to, like the Palestinians and Israelis. Secondly, any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace that’s good for both sides. And therefore, the term honest broker makes sense. This current administration’s worked hard to keep the parties at the table. I will try to do the same thing. But it won’t be on my timetable, it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with in the Middle East.

    From the Bush/Gore debate.

  11. 11.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 1:09 am

    The missiles they have been shooting into Israel were not provided by Bush. Try again dumb ass.

  12. 12.

    Brachiator

    March 4, 2008 at 1:11 am

    Can’t put it much better than the Bradrocket. When you look at the glorious hash that our great leader made of elections in Palestine certain trends ought to stand out – we casually interfered in another country based on “plans” that could best be described as fanciful. We didn’t have a fallback plan. When things didn’t work out as expected we panicked and made a series of sloppy decisions that just made the situation worse. Then we threw in guns and support to an armed faction that lost.

    The sad thing is that both liberals and conservatives foolishly believe that the US, because it is a superpower, can arbitrarily and unilaterally, intervene in the affairs of weaker countries. The only difference between the two ideological camps is that the worst conservatives believe that as long as you are strong, you can make bad policies work, while the worst liberals delude themselves that “fallback plans” and good decisions can somehow transform ill-conceived interventions into something positive.

    Both groups ignore the interests of the people in the country that is the target of US intervention. Or, worse, they assume that magically the national interests of the country messed with corresponds to US national interests.

    Here is a recent example from Pakistan:

    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The Bush administration’s continued backing of President Pervez Musharraf, despite the overwhelming rejection of his party by voters this month, is fueling a new level of frustration in Pakistan with the United States.

    That support has rankled the public, politicians and journalists here, inciting deep anger at what is perceived as American meddling and the refusal of Washington to embrace the new, democratically elected government. John D. Negroponte, the deputy secretary of state, said Thursday during a Senate panel hearing that the United States would maintain its close ties to Mr. Musharraf.

    The New York Times story documenting this includes a great photo in which a protester holds up a sign that proclaims, “American Interference in Pak Politics Unacceptable” (U.S. Embrace of Musharraf Irks Pakistanis)

    The sign doesn’t say “You need a better fallback position.”

    Condoleezza Rice told reporters. “I don’t know anyone who wasn’t caught off guard by Hamas’s strong showing.”

    I simply do not understand why Rice has not been shown the door, as Donald Rumsfeld was, a while ago. Maybe it’s the Dubya loyalty thing.

  13. 13.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 4, 2008 at 1:15 am

    Has there been anything, no matter how how completely telegraphed, that didn’t catch this administration unprepared?

    “Bin Laden determined to strike US.”

    “Army Chief of Staff, General Eric Shinseki, says several hundred thousand troops needed for Iraq.”

    “Katrina approaches Gulf Coast.”

    Eight years of lurching from one blunder to the next in a march of folly unparalleled in modern times. Although we will have to spend years and billions to clean up the mess, we will be the beneficiaries of two thin books, to be published by Regnery; The Wit and Wisdom of George Bush, by Paul Hinderaker, and My Foreign Policy Triumphs, by Condoleeza Rice (Forward by Diane Feinstein).

  14. 14.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 4, 2008 at 1:32 am

    The missiles they have been shooting into Israel were not provided by Bush. Try again dumb ass.

    Ummm, they aren’t missiles, they’re rockets; unguided dumb bombs.

    From Britain’s Telegraph.co.uk, March 1, 2008.

    Hamas militants in Gaza claimed to have fired more than 125 rockets into Israel last week. Most were home made qassams, named after a branch of Hamas and assembled in sheds before being launched from the north of the territory – out of which Israeli forces withdrew two years ago.

    With no guidance system, the steel tubes packed with explosives often land harmlessly in fields.

    Now no one could possibly anticipate that Hamas would trade some of its windfall of arms for plastique or that they’d use rifle powder for a propellant.

  15. 15.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 4, 2008 at 1:40 am

    Make that: No one could possibly anticipate…

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    March 4, 2008 at 1:41 am

    Now no one could possibly anticipate that Hamas would trade some of its windfall of arms for plastique or that they’d use rifle powder for a propellant.

    Nonsense. The idea is to demonstrate that they are willing to stand up to Israel, whether or not they are a particularly credible threat.

    In a similar vein, Saddam Hussein lost his country and his life because defying the United States was more important than anything that remotely resembled an effective, less self-destructive, foreign policy.

  17. 17.

    Jimitha

    March 4, 2008 at 1:45 am

    Hussein lost his country and his life because he didn’t think the US would actually invade.

  18. 18.

    srv

    March 4, 2008 at 1:53 am

    I simply do not understand why Rice has not been shown the door, as Donald Rumsfeld was, a while ago. Maybe it’s the Dubya loyalty thing.

    Bush once said he chose her as Nat’l Sec. Advisor because she could explain things in terms he understood.

    It wasn’t until later that I figured out that meant she was the only person stupider than George.

  19. 19.

    lilysmom

    March 4, 2008 at 2:12 am

    He will keep anyone employed, no matter how badly they f up, as long as they look adoringly at him and say over and over how far-seeing and wise he is and what a great leader he is.
    Uh, yeah.. right into the ditch and over the cliff.
    I grieve over the things that have been done in our name.

  20. 20.

    Martin

    March 4, 2008 at 2:30 am

    Both groups ignore the interests of the people in the country that is the target of US intervention. Or, worse, they assume that magically the national interests of the country messed with corresponds to US national interests.

    They are but goats unable to understand the world around them. We will show them the way by will of our all knowing Lord almighty who has steered us effortlessly though all manner of disaster, both natural and manmade, with nary a life lost.

  21. 21.

    Perry Como

    March 4, 2008 at 2:35 am

    John D. Negroponte, the deputy secretary of state, said Thursday during a Senate panel hearing that the United States would maintain its close ties to Mr. Musharraf.

    Why the fuck are criminals like Negroponte still allowed to serve in the US government?

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 3:57 am

    Nonsense. The idea is to demonstrate that they are willing to stand up to Israel, whether or not they are a particularly credible threat.

    Thanks to Bush, they’re a bigger threat then they were before.

    Bay of Pigs Meets Iran-Contra.

  23. 23.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 3:59 am

    The missiles they have been shooting into Israel were not provided by Bush.

    Shorter MJ: I can’t tell the difference between guns and missiles.

    Those guns are now in the hands of Hamas fighters. Who the fuck do you think they shoot at?

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 3:59 am

    Why the fuck are criminals like Negroponte still allowed to serve in the US government?

    I blame Clinton. He should have sanctioned the bitch with the CIA years ago.

  25. 25.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 4:04 am

    The only difference between the two ideological camps is that the worst conservatives believe that as long as you are strong, you can make bad policies work, while the worst liberals delude themselves that “fallback plans” and good decisions can somehow transform ill-conceived interventions into something positive.

    Shorter Brachiator: I will say both sides are equally bad. The magic of the flying pony center!

    ‘Liberals’ have seen that fucking around with other countries politics is counterproductive. The same can’t be said for Republicans, Bush Dog Democrats and idiots.

    Unfortunately, the last three get all the airtime.

  26. 26.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 5:45 am

    Now everybody cares about Palestine, eh? Zero comments about the dozens of civilians killed by the brave fighters of the Jewish state, including a 13 month and 21 month old baby, in the recent ‘incursion’ into Gaza. Zero comments about Human Rights Watch denunciation of the Jewish State for its indiscriminate use of cluster bombs against civilians in South Lebanon

    Bush bashing is a jackalope. It makes American Jews feel better while they can ignore everything else that’s done. Maybe not for so longso long

    “Unless the government suddenly backs down, the courtroom will become the stage for an extraordinary parade of top officials being forced to testify about some of the unseen ways American foreign policy is made. Over the strong objections of the Justice Department, the judge in the case ruled that the defense may call as witnesses Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state; Stephen J. Hadley, the White House national security adviser; Elliot Abrams, a deputy national security adviser; Richard L. Armitage, former deputy secretary of state; Paul D. Wolfowitz, former deputy defense secretary; and a dozen other Bush administration foreign policy officials. The defense’s goal is to demonstrate that the kind of conversations in the indictment are an accepted, if not routine, way that American policy on Israel and the Middle East has been formulated for years. Mr. Rosen’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, said the case raised “strange and troubling issues, notably the decision to target Aipac for common and proper behavior that goes on in Washington every day.””

    More ‘progressive’ talk and Bush bashing, yet nothing about the collective punishment inflicted on the Palestinians. Too fucking much sometimes.

  27. 27.

    Redhand

    March 4, 2008 at 7:01 am

    Condoleezza Rice told reporters. “I don’t know anyone who wasn’t caught off guard by Hamas’s strong showing.”

    Reminds me of her infamous, “No one could have dreamed that they’d fly airliners into buildings” post 9/11 excuse when documents later unearthed by the 9/11 Commission showed that Condi & Co. were warned that it was a possibility.

    The Big Lie, . . . because it works.

    As to the quality of Bush’s decision making, he reminds me of Czar Nicholas II assuming active control of the Russian Army in WWI. We all how that turned out.

  28. 28.

    Brachiator

    March 4, 2008 at 7:32 am

    TenguPhule Says:

    Shorter Brachiator: I will say both sides are equally bad. The magic of the flying pony center!

    ‘Liberals’ have seen that fucking around with other countries politics is counterproductive.

    You clearly missed where I said “the worst conservatives” and “the worst liberals.”

    It’s not about the middle vs the extremes. It’s about stupid foreign policy vs intelligent foreign policy.

    But I’m curious who these magical liberals are who “have seen that fucking around with other countries politics is counterproductive.” JFK? LBJ? Clinton? Carter?

  29. 29.

    jake

    March 4, 2008 at 8:18 am

    I move we make that LOL cat be the official mascot of the bAdmin.

    My favorite:

    “You know,” says [Khalid Jaberi, a commander with Fatah’s al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades], “since the takeover, we’ve been trying to enter the brains of Bush and Rice, to figure out their mentality. We can only conclude that having Hamas in control serves their overall strategy, because their policy was so crazy otherwise.

    Even hardened killerz are awe-struck by Teh LOL cat of Apocalyptic FAIL.

    It’s like bAdmin. watched Monty Python’s Confuse-A-Cat skit and thought it was a brilliant policy for dealing with hostile nations and organizations. Maybe that explains this whole fucking mess. Bush didn’t get that M.P. is comedy. Look at how they deal with disagreement:
    “Yes it is.”
    “No, it isn’t.”
    “Yes, it is.”
    “No, it isn’t!”

    And of course, who can forget how they reinterpreted the Dead Parrot skit to create the whole Terri Schiavo mess? Starring Bill Frist as the shopkeeper.

    “Look! See, ‘e moved!”

    Please tell me that at some point in the future we’ll look back on this shit and laugh. And probably spit out our dentures and go into cardiac arrest. But, surely at some point we’ll be able to laugh at this never ending lube-free cluster fuck of an administration.

    then finish off that bottle of Black Bush I have in the kitchen (seriously).

    Racist! Sexist!

  30. 30.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 8:19 am

    I can’t tell the difference between guns and missiles.

    LOL.. and he has the nerve to call me a dumb ass. Hamas has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel. They aren’t firing AK47s. Regardless of that it doesn’t prove that Fatah is any better then Hamas. Either way that election went they would have ended up with murderous thugs running the place.

  31. 31.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 8:29 am

    What about the murderous zionist thugs responsible for this?

    A day after the Asliyeh sisters, Samah, 13, and Salwa, 18, were killed in an Israel Air Force bombing, their grandfather, Mohammed, was hospitalized Sunday. His blood pressure rose and his sons were afraid he would collapse.

    The horrifying images of the girls’ charred bodies were broadcast over and over Saturday on Al Jazeera, and Mohammed found himself the unwilling center of Arab and Palestinian media attention. TV cameras were rolling when he and his wife, the girls’ grandmother, reached the smoke-filled room, minutes after the blast, and were pushed back by the men inside to keep them from seeing the terrible sight.

    …The father, Zidan, 42, still cannot digest what happened. For years he lived there with his 12 children, next door to his brother Diab’s family. They had almost no trouble. Diab even has a work permit for Israel (which he can expect to lose, now that he is in the category of those whose relatives were killed by the Israel Defense Forces). Like many of his relatives, Zidan used to work on the other side of the border, and still has many Jewish acquaintances.

    “Plasterer. That was my profession by you, in Rehovot, in Ashkelon. I always thought you wanted peace, but what did you do? What did you do?! You slaughtered my two girls,” he says.

    He bursts into tears. Salwa had begun medical school this year and dreamed of becoming a doctor. Samah stayed home from school because of the situation.

    …Zidan and his wife were away from home, in Jabalya, when it happened…I got a phone call from my sisters, who told me, ‘Come quick, they bombed the house and your two daughters were killed.’ I saw their bodies when I arrived. What can I tell you? It’s horrific.”

    He describes the sight in detail, then says: “Did they shoot at anyone? Where they armed? Jewish friends from Israel telephoned me with condolences, but the Jews bombed us when the girls were sitting at home. It’s inconceivable.”

    Zidan’s brother describes the events: “We kept hearing planes in the air and tanks, so we decided to bring the whole family, mine and Zidan’s, down to the courtyard between the two houses, where we felt safer. But the two girls took too long upstairs. We heard a first ‘boom’ when a missile landed near the house, followed by a second missile that hit the bedroom window.”

    He ran upstairs and saw the carnage. “I shouted, ‘Samah, Samah,’ but there was only severed limbs. If you had seen the sight you would’ve wept. The missile burned everything there.”

    Diab, a former volunteer with Magen David Adom in Ashkelon, cannot grasp what happened. “There are no gunmen here. We wouldn’t let them near. There are more than 20 children here. We don’t want trouble and don’t like it, but why did they shoot at us? What did we do to deserve this?”

  32. 32.

    DrDave

    March 4, 2008 at 8:32 am

    Now everybody cares about Palestine, eh? Zero comments about the dozens of civilians killed by the brave fighters of the Jewish state, including a 13 month and 21 month old baby, in the recent ‘incursion’ into Gaza. Zero comments about Human Rights Watch denunciation of the Jewish State for its indiscriminate use of cluster bombs against civilians in South Lebanon

    Hezbollah put its Katyusha rocket batteries in residential neighborhoods. The Israelis weren’t supposed to try to take them out as Hezbollah fired on Israeli cities and towns?

    The same for Hamas: They fire Kassams at Israeli residential areas–Sderot and Ashkelon-while hidng behind women and children. Do you remember this cartoon?

    It is closer to the truth than critics of Israel (and advocates for the Palestinians) usually care to admit.

  33. 33.

    4tehlulz

    March 4, 2008 at 8:35 am

    In this thread your usual GOS IP thread.

  34. 34.

    scrutinizer

    March 4, 2008 at 8:40 am

    Wilfred, Wilfred. Have you heard the phrase “collateral damage”? If those girls had done as their parents said and hurried to the courtyard, it wouldn’t have happened. Here we are, our country is trying to further the ambitions of the Zionist State, and you’re distracting us by trying to put a human face on mere statistics, the by-blow of democracy in action.

    Wilfred, why do you hate America?

  35. 35.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 8:41 am

    It is closer to the truth than critics of Israel (and advocates for the Palestinians) usually care to admit.

    So they both do it, correct? The thing is that American taxpayer money doesn’t pay for the rockets fired by Hamas or Hezbollah which, after all, are not states but terrorist organizations. Israel does what they do, ergo it’s a terrorist state. American taxpayer money supports the murder of Palestinian children – that’s what Americans need to keep in mind at all times, or at least be reminded of it.

    As for doing the same thing. Hamas rockets killed one civilian – the Jewish state response was the same overkill and collective punishment that is routinely condemned by civilized people.

    Israel has lost one civilian in recent rocket attacks and a young child has lost a limb. Compare that to 100 Gazans killed in five days with somewhere near half being civilians. And Olmert chafes at Ban Ki Moon when he calls Israel’s actions “disproportionate?” Who is he kidding except himself?

    Who the fuck do you think you’re kidding? Americans have become the enablers of baby-killing.

  36. 36.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 4, 2008 at 8:43 am

    Either way that election went they would have ended up with murderous thugs running the place.

    Bush is in office for six years and then he and his geniuses notice that there’s a little trouble over in that ol’ Palestine. His solution for dealing with a three thousand year old nexus of hatreds? Send in more weapons. Don’t even think about talking with experts on the situation there – especially if they happen to be Palestinians, don’t question why Fatah was hated by many, just send in more guns.

  37. 37.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 8:45 am

    It is closer to the truth than critics of Israel (and advocates for the Palestinians) usually care to admit.

    It is also hard to know what to believe from what comes out of there. They have a history of making bogus claims.

  38. 38.

    jake

    March 4, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Now everybody cares about Palestine, eh?

    Oh heavens Wilfred where’d you get an idea like that? No one gives a flaming half fuck about Palestine. We think they’re a bunch of doody ca-ca heads that eat their own toe cheese. However, we couldn’t pass up a chance to snark on teh LOL cat o’ FAIL, so we’re crassly using the Palestinians as an excuse. When we’re done we’re going to toss a crumpled $20 in their direction and ask them to pass us a towel before they go.

    Don’t worry, your persecution complex is safe with us.

  39. 39.

    rachel

    March 4, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Hezbollah put its Katyusha rocket batteries in residential neighborhoods. The Israelis weren’t supposed to try to take them out as Hezbollah fired on Israeli cities and towns?

    Israel accidentally killing innocents as they take out Hezbollah’s rockets is working out very well for Israel. Not.

    Hint: What did Machiavelli say about being hated?

  40. 40.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Don’t worry, your persecution complex is safe with us.

    Ok, her 21 month old persecution complex is over. enjoy your snark asshole.

  41. 41.

    jake

    March 4, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Thanks wilf. Pass me a towel will. Same time next week?

  42. 42.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 9:06 am

    Don’t even think about talking with experts on the situation there

    It’s a good thing he didn’t consult with Obama’s expert on the ME, Samantha Power who in the past has called for sending in a ‘mammoth protection force’ to fix the problem over there.

  43. 43.

    Punchy

    March 4, 2008 at 9:08 am

    “Unless the government suddenly backs down, the courtroom will become the stage for an extraordinary parade of top officials being forced to testify about some of the unseen ways American foreign policy is made.

    If you think these officials will actually obey the judge and testify, I have some great rentals in Tikrit to lease ‘ya.

  44. 44.

    DrDave

    March 4, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Israel accidentally killing innocents as they take out Hezbollah’s rockets is working out very well for Israel.

    Not many good choices for Israel, are there?

  45. 45.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 4, 2008 at 9:33 am

    It’s a good thing he didn’t consult with Obama’s expert on the ME, Samantha Power who in the past has called for sending in a ‘mammoth protection force’ to fix the problem over there.

    That just goes to show how unready Obama is to be commander in chief: mammoths have been extinct for thousands of years!

  46. 46.

    Dork

    March 4, 2008 at 9:42 am

    ‘mammoth protection force’

    David Lee Roth and Eddie Van Halen’s bodyguards?

  47. 47.

    jenniebee

    March 4, 2008 at 9:57 am

    One question: why are we not taking to the streets?

  48. 48.

    Aldorossi

    March 4, 2008 at 10:24 am

    I think we should go easy on MJ. Even if there is “no difference between Hamas and Fatah”, the initiative undertaken by the Bush Adminstration in Gaza would still be one more example of their incompetant dumb-assery.

    And we can all agree on that.

  49. 49.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 10:26 am

    It’s a good thing he didn’t consult with Obama’s expert on the ME,

    Barack Obama actaully has advisers who actually, you know, think of things:

    PARIS (Reuters) – Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama told a French magazine in an interview that if he wins office, he will hold a summit with Muslim countries to better the United States’ image in the world.

    “Once I’m elected, I want to organize a summit in the Muslim world, with all the heads of state, to have an honest discussion about ways to bridge the gap that grows every day between Muslims and the West,” Thursday’s edition of Paris Match quoted Obama as saying,

    “I want to ask them to join our fight against terrorism. We must also listen to their concerns,” Obama said in the French-language transcript

    .

    Note Muslim – Palestine is no longer an Arab issue but is ncreasingly perceived by Muslims to be part of the US led war on Islam, abetted by its Israeli proxies. True? Depends on who you believe. Putting anti-Muslim zealots like Eliot Abrams in charge of the ME desk at the State Department is hard to rationalize.

    Hilary Clinton, on the other hand, will follow the Aipac line to the grave. As Marc Lynch, an American academic who actually know something about the region, compares the efforts of Obama and even McCain with Clinton:

    But Hillary Clinton…. nothing. Her Foreign Affairs essay says not a single word about public diplomacy or the war of ideas, or even hints at the notion that there might be a vast, complicated Muslim world out there beyond al-Qaeda impatient for real dialogue with a post-Bush America. When she talks about engagement, she seems to mean either talking to friendly leaders or working within institutions…Combine the silence on public diplomacy with her decision to highlight at every opportunity her Bush-like refusal to talk to problematic foreign leaders as her main point of disagreement with Obama, and you get something which looks… well, all too familiar (no wonder those bastions of liberal foreign policy Powerline and Commentary have got her back).

    This is Likud’s position, btw, as transmitted via Aipac.

    A last note. The problem with bullshit posts like Tim F.’s forever makes is that they take shots at Bush only, as if his Administration was the only enabler of ME disasters. He leaves out the tireless efforts of Likud proxies like Abrams , Tom Lantos, Wexler and Lantos’ successor as committee chairman – Howard Berman, yet another zionist and Likud supporter. He thus exonerates the Democratic Party from complicity in the ongoing humiliation of the Palestinian people and soothes his own conscience at the expense of the Republicans.

  50. 50.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Barack Obama actaully has advisers who actually, you know, think of things

    “Once I’m elected, I want to organize a summit in the Muslim world…”

    Well there you go, lets just have meeting and hash out the problems. It’s simply brilliant!! How come nobody else ever tried that?

    See Oslo, Camp David 2000, Geneva Accord, the Annapolis Conference and I am sure there are others.

    Clinton came the closest to actually making a deal that could have given the Palestinians a state.

    Clinton’s proposal gave the Palestinians about 97% of the territory of the West Bank and sovereignty over their airspace. Refugees could not return to Israel without Israeli consent. An international force would remain in the Jordan valley for six years, replacing the IDF. Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem and the Haram as Sharif (temple mount) would be incorporated into Palestine. Saudi Arabian ambassador Prince Bandar Ibn Sultan said, “If Arafat does not accept what is available now, it won’t be a tragedy, it will be a crime.” (Ross, The Missing Peace, 2004, p.748)link

    .

  51. 51.

    Jake

    March 4, 2008 at 11:13 am

    MOAR FAIL PLZ.

    The collapse of the trial stunned American and Iraqi officials who had spent more than a year assembling the case, which they said included a wide array of evidence.

    “This shows that the judicial system in Iraq is horribly broken,” said a U.S. legal adviser who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly. “And it sends a terrible signal: If you are Shia, then no worries; you can do whatever you want and nothing is going to happen to you.”

    In Goldbergese: The Shia is the Republican of Iraqi Democracy.

    On Monday a three-judge panel ordered the former Health Ministry officials released after a prosecutor unexpectedly asked that the charges be dismissed for lack of evidence. The request caught U.S. officials off guard and came on the second day of what was expected to be at least a four-day trial; evidence had been presented completely on only some of the allegations against the defendants.

    Here I stand,
    dick in hand,
    Another lackey to GDubya…

  52. 52.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 11:47 am

    See Oslo, Camp David 2000, Geneva Accord, the Annapolis Conference and I am sure there are others.

    You’ll have to do better than an appeal to authority that involves Dennis Ross. Try Norman Finkelstein’s deconstruction: Dennis Ross and the Peace Process: Subordinating Palestinian Rights to Israeli “Needs”. I won’t even bother to cite the Palestinian accounts as one characteristic of these discussions is that their voices never matter.

    The main point of the Obama quote is his recognition that it is Muslims that matter now, not Arab nationalists or the survivors of any Arab Marxist movements. Palestine has become an issue for Muslims, while the original PLO charter was purely secular – those days are over.

    To quote the ‘Annapolis’ conference is just stupidity and not deserving of further comment.

  53. 53.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Zero comments about the dozens of civilians killed by the brave fighters of the Jewish state, including a 13 month and 21 month old baby, in the recent ‘incursion’ into Gaza.

    Says Wilfred, supporter of suicide bombers and child murder, provided the child belongs to the right state.

  54. 54.

    srv

    March 4, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Who the fuck do you think you’re kidding? Americans have become the enablers of baby-killing.

    Have become? Sheesh, that’s been the American Way for a long, long time. It’s what Democrats and Republicans do. You’re probably another Obamamoron who thinks he’s going to change anything.

    From his own campaign site:

    Ensure a Strong U.S.-Israel Partnership: Barack Obama strongly supports the U.S.-Israel relationship, believes that our first and incontrovertible commitment in the Middle East must be to the security of Israel, America’s strongest ally in the Middle East. Obama supports this closeness, stating that that the United States would never distance itself from Israel.

    Support Israel’s Right to Self Defense: During the July 2006 Lebanon war, Barack Obama stood up strongly for Israel’s right to defend itself from Hezbollah raids and rocket attacks, cosponsoring a Senate resolution against Iran and Syria’s involvement in the war, and insisting that Israel should not be pressured into a ceasefire that did not deal with the threat of Hezbollah missiles. He believes strongly in Israel’s right to protect its citizens.

    Support Foreign Assistance to Israel: Barack Obama has consistently supported foreign assistance to Israel. He defends and supports the annual foreign aid package that involves both military and economic assistance to Israel and has advocated increased foreign aid budgets to ensure that these funding priorities are met. He has called for continuing U.S. cooperation with Israel in the development of missile defense systems.

    Does he have to jump in that Dallas-built F-16I himself and drop that American-made bomb for y’all to get a clue? Vote Obama, it’s the moral thing to do.

  55. 55.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Says Wilfred, supporter of suicide bombers and child murder, provided the child belongs to the right state.

    Projection. Not me, I’m against all baby-killing and murder of civilians. Unlike the supporters of the Jewish state, whose rabbis justify it. Sorry asshole, this is about what Americans pay for – and they pay for the Jewish state’s murder of innocent men, women and children.

  56. 56.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Hamas or Hezbollah which, after all, are not states but terrorist organizations. Israel does what they do, ergo it’s a terrorist state.

    Except Hamas is now the government of the Palestinians. Whoops! There goes that lame excuse!

    As for doing the same thing. Hamas rockets killed one civilian – the Jewish state response was the same overkill and collective punishment that is routinely condemned by civilized people.

    Shorter Wilfred: Let’s all pretend the suicide bombing blitz
    that took place for years never happened. Hamas gets to start a new body count from zero, just because it sounds better. After all, it’s not like Hamas used overkill and collective punishment against all of Israel because a few of its operatives were arrested or killed by a small portion of it.

    Yes Wilfred, do explain how is it that the Palestinians who support Hamas and the rest are ‘innocent’ while Israelis who support their IDF are ‘acceptable targets’.

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Brachiator Says: You clearly missed where I said “the worst conservatives” and “the worst liberals.”

    Because you clearly didn’t say that, you lying asshole.

    Instead, you lumped apples with bananas.

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    They aren’t firing AK47s. Regardless of that it doesn’t prove that Fatah is any better then Hamas.

    Shorter MJ: I see the hole, I must dig deeper.

  59. 59.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    What about the murderous zionist thugs responsible for this?

    Yawn.

    Get back to us after you’ve seen what the Palestinians did to shopping centers, ice cream parlors and people sleeping in their beds.

    Or maybe you could take a good look at the Palestinians tortured to death by Palestinians for being ‘Spies of Israel’ which appears to be short for ‘I don’t like you’.

  60. 60.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Zero comments about the *hundreds* of civilians killed by the brave fighters of the *Pali* state

    Corrected for accuracy.

  61. 61.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Not me, I’m against all baby-killing and murder of civilians.

    Unless they’re an Israeli. We have only to go back to your own words in past threads to see this is true.

  62. 62.

    TenguPhule

    March 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    and they pay for the Jewish state’s murder of innocent men, women and children.

    So Israelis hit neighborhoods of Hamas supporters with weapons and fighters hiding in them is bad.

    But Hamas and company attacking Israeli neighborhoods where there are no Israeli bases is acceptable?

    If you want to wave the ‘innocent civilian flag’, it applies both ways.

  63. 63.

    Wilfred

    March 4, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Again asshole, I’m opposed to your state. I just want my fellow Americans to know they pay for – dead Palestinian children. They’re not paying for the dead Israelis, only Palestinians.

    Americans should know that they pay for this:

    All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

    Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

    The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides’ commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

    According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

    jewish war ethics

    Now if Americans support that, they should say so.

  64. 64.

    srv

    March 4, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Shorter TenguPhule: Everything would be fine if those brown people would have just behaved themselves.

  65. 65.

    srv

    March 4, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    they should say so.

    Cowards never admit they’re cowards.

  66. 66.

    The Moar You Know

    March 4, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    RE: The Middle East

    And I mean this with every fiber of my being; I’d like nothing better than to see every Israeli and every Palestinian dead, so you would all finally shut the fuck up about it and I’d have some peace and quiet for once.

    Any candidate who gets on board with this gets my vote.

  67. 67.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    You’ll have to do better than an appeal to authority that involves Dennis Ross. Try Norman Finkelstein’s deconstruction: Dennis Ross and the Peace Process: Subordinating Palestinian Rights to Israeli “Needs”. I won’t even bother to cite the Palestinian accounts as one characteristic of these discussions is that their voices never matter.

    The main point of the Obama quote is his recognition that it is Muslims that matter now, not Arab nationalists or the survivors of any Arab Marxist movements. Palestine has become an issue for Muslims, while the original PLO charter was purely secular – those days are over.

    Wilfred so Obama is going to have this magical summit meeting that will have Muslims nations not just Arab nations. What does that get you? Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia at this meeting too? Sorry but that’s not going to help make peace.

    I have read more then enough Finkelstein, no thanks. It does give me an idea of where you are coming from though. Also call me a cynic but I don’t trust Arafat’s version of anything. I have never been a huge fan of Ross but I think he’s a better more trust worthy source.

    The reality is that these Arab or Muslim countries don’t really care about the plight of the Palestinian people. This all Muslim meeting will be about as useful as all the other summits I listed.

  68. 68.

    MJ

    March 4, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Shorter MJ: I see the hole, I must dig deeper.

    You don’t read what people write here do you?

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