From the 60 Minutes hagiography on John McCain tonight:
“You’re saying that Senator Obama doesn’t have the experience? That he’s too naïve to be president?” Pelley asked.
“No, I am saying that I have that. And if the phone rings at 3:00a.m., I think the American people would want me to answer it first,” McCain replied.
If the Democrats lose in 2008, it can be traced directly to Hillary’s decision to enter this 3 am nonsense into the discourse in her last-ditch attempt to have super-delegates overturn the will of the people.
Also in the piece was this gem:
“In your town hall meetings you’re fond of saying that you will follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell,” Pelley remarked. “With respect, following him to the gates of hell is easy. What’s hard is putting several divisions of U.S. forces on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. What are you willing to do?”
“Well, the first thing is not tell Osama bin Laden what I’m gonna do. But I’ll get him,” McCain vowed.
Now that there is some straight talk you can take to the bank.
4tehlulz
Not if Mittens is VP.
Dug Jay
Sorry, but I put this in the wrong thread relative to the so-called 3:00AM telephone call.
citcm
Even McCain won’t go where Hillary went. I agree with earlier posts, she’s getting ready for a 2012 run against President McCain, if this one doesn’t work out.
dslak
If the phone rings at 3 a.m., I hope whoever’s president has some competent people handling the White House switchboard. When it comes to jobs like that, recent experience indicates Democrat appointees to be preferable to those of Republicans.
Dennis - SGMM
Shit, Osama bin Laden has been wanted dead or alive longer than John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde combined. You and what army, John? The one your president is breaking in Iraq and Afghanistan?
dslak
By telling Obama that you’ll “get him,” you’re letting him know that you’re after him, which makes him more likely to hide. McCain just gave the game away!
jake
Only if we knew you’d immediately hand the phone to someone who wasn’t batshit insane. Go. Away.
Given the state of the economy a few words of McCane’s S.T. might be equal to the value of a dollar. Maybe.
You know, I don’t have a problem with not telling an enemy what you plan to do. I do have a problem with the Osama Obsession. This isn’t some fairy tale where the hero kills the Dark Lord and all his plans and evil minions will be destroyed (Cue cherubim & seraphim raining jewels and sweet meats down on McCain the Barbarian.) I seriously wonder how much an old man with ESRD has to do with the day-to-day or even year-to-year operations of A.Q. Likely all you’d accomplish is a period of in-fighting as all those A.Q. #2s we didn’t get struggled to take his place.
Dennis - SGMM
Now you’ve gone and done it. McCain was going to nuke that Eye of Sauron glaring out over the tribal regions on Pakistan’s border then send in a Seal Team to throw the Ring of Power down into the crack of Mount Doom. But noooo. Now that you’ve given it away OBL has the ring stashed in a safe deposit box in a bank in Zurich.
I hope you’re happy with yourself.
PeterJ
McCain is as old as the Hoover Dam, and he got big problems with his temperament. Do you really believe that someone in their right mind would wake him at 3 am?
Bush had his “My Pet Goat” moment, but that will all be forgotten when McCain decides to nuke a country just because he had to answer the phone at 3 am…
ThymeZone
Sure, because he knows that it’s probably Charles Keating.
Dennis - SGMM
Remember when Obama was derided for saying that he would reach across the aisle to work with Republicans? I guess that campaigning for them isn’t as bad as working with them.
Blue Rising
Hillary is going to regret all of this.
The press is letting her go there, but it won’t be long before she is held to the standards she’s schizophrenically thrusting on Barack.
Its going to end ugly for her and Bill. Stinks, but they asked for it. (Dubai, pardon papers, Wolfson’s firm…its all going to come out).
myiq2xu
If Hillary wins in November, will it be due to the same ad?
I really, really hope Hillary wins the nomination. I want to see heads explode like they did in Scanners.
weenus
Whomever pledges to outlaw karaoke, gets my vote.
Invigilator
I don’t suppose anyone really cares, but there are, you know, PEOPLE ON DUTY in the WH, State, the Pentagon, CIA, Homeland Security, etc., etc., who will be the first to answer the phone.
Could we just kill this 3:00 am phone call metaphor and bury it, please, preferably in the wilds of Waziristan?
PeterJ
Someone should prank call McCain at 3:00am…
Wilfred
She’s getting away this 3am wanking because no one will call her on it. Be nice to see Obama spring a call for a debate on her just before Pennsylvania and throw this nonsense out there. And ask her about those tax returns.
Deadly.
Buck
I think it’s all over but the crying for Hillary & Co.
Balloon-Juice had better stock up on a LOT of tissue here pretty soon.
ThymeZone
Man, that’s a visual I really don’t need.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
If Obama wins on Tuesday in Mississippi he will have erased all of Clinton’s meager gains from Ohio and Rhode Island (Obama won more combined delegates from Texas). And even if Clinton wins Pennsylvania Obama will erase her gains when they get to North Carolina.
Why is this race continuing? Clinton won’t overturn Obama’s lead in delegates, popular vote and states won – so what is going on here really? Anyone else and they would have been told to exit stage left.
Clinton will not get “Obama voters” if she gets the delegates to overturn the voter’s will. I’d vote for Nader before I would vote for the scheming deviate.
jake
Bu-but they scrapped Operation Galadriel Elbereth has been inoperative when Rick Mandogo Santorum gave away the plan back in ’06.
ThymeZone
Okay, just heard it in my, um, timezone, and …
He says the line with a snotty little sneering laugh.
The motherfucker thinks he can laugh at half the country, apparently. He can laugh at this subject.
Fuck him.
Buck
Forgive the OT, but:
MSNBC cancels Tucker Carlson.
ThymeZone
Cool. I think the viewers canceled him a long time ago.
Good riddance. How long before he shows up on Faux?
w vincentz
Buck,
That’s great news. I hope Rachel Maddow takes the time spot. Now if MSNBC would get rid of that high pitched voice named Buchannan and tha morning Joe jerk…
Will Faux news dump Billo? One hopes.
Dennis - SGMM
No forgiveness needed for good news, Buck!
ThymeZone
John McCain says he is against Universal Healthcare because he doesn’t think the government should “mandate anything.”
In other words, if you get sick or get into an accident and are financially ruined or can’t get the care you need, Tough Shit.
Between 100 years of Iraq war, and Tough Shit, I am not sure what will attract voters to this guy.
Delia
OH NOES!!!! Tucker and his little bow tie were so much fun to ridicule. One more spot of inanity in the VRWC disappears into the vast unseeing ether.
Jorge
I love the difference between media perception and reality – Obama has already regained the lead in the national polls from Clinton. It looks like he basically had a bad couple week – mostly from the Nafta mess – and things are correcting themselves.
cleek
the Obama campaign should call Hillary at 3am tomorrow. see who answers.
jake
I had no idea McCane was running on the Anarchy Now! ticket.
Oh, sorry. He must mean the gubbermint shouldn’t mandate anything that might vex his business buddies. Enforce safety standards? Heaven forfend!
Either that M. Straight Talk is letting us know he intends to spend less time at work than the Chimperor.
…Or, he thinks “Mandate” is when two guys go out for dinner and a movie. Hard to tell with the know-nothings of the GOP.
John S.
Which she will accomplish, how?
She’ll win all the remaining contests by 20-30 point margins? She’ll convince enough superdelegates to vote for her even though Obama will likely be ahead of her by triple digits? I mean, I wish for a lot of things, too, but without a viable path to attaining them it is hihgly unlikely my hopes will come true.
Besides, wishing is for ponies!
Delia
But what I really wanted to say is: Now that I’ve been alerted, since I’m on the left coast, I don’t really want to watch Scott Pelley do another stupid sniveling puff piece on another stupid sniveling rightwinger. I don’t want to be reminded how far 60 Minutes has fallen since CBS became enslaved to the Bushie minions.
So thank you for alerting me to this travesty, John. I think I’ll go watch the DVDs I made from bit torrent downloads of The Dog Whisperer instead. Dogs can be redeemed, unlike politicians, and they make me feel good about life. McSame and Hillary both disgust me.
Dennis - SGMM
That’s good to hear. That means a McCain administration will end the mandates of No Child Left Behind, the mandate that state law defers to federal law on medical marijuana and death with dignity. Why, that even means that the mandates that the ISP’s and telcos give the government unrestricted access to our communications will end. What a world; no mandate for taxes, none about pollution. No sense mandating that our water is pure our or that our food be free of e coli either.
Ass.
The Other Steve
Can Glenn Beck be far behind?
TenguPhule
TZ, the Republican strategy has always been to never attract voters to them, but to drive voters from Democrats.
Their philsophies are batshit insane, but they have a small loyal knobslobbering faithful mob of Dug Jays and Paul Ls that worship the delicious R Cox.
They only win when they drive voters away from the booth.
In this vein, Hillary is doing them a favor.
Dug Jay
Are you suggesting that American taxpayers should bail that unfortunate soul out of his problem?
TenguPhule
Fuck you, IQPony.
I’d like the nomination to be something more then ‘because it will annoy other people’.
If your candidate can’t get from point A to point B without getting lost, they don’t fucking belong in the running.
TenguPhule
We already do so, Dug Jay.
Emergency Rooms and Bankruptcies.
Those of us smarter then you however would like to have protections in place to STOP the bigger costs that not having medical coverage and regulations in place cause.
TenguPhule
I think Fuckstain McCain needs to get off the Government’s tits and buy his own fucking medical coverage.
That is, if he can find any that would insure such an obvious bad risk.
Dennis - SGMM
Right now, thanks to Cleek’s script, Dug Jay only posts about pie. I’m gonna edit in something about knobslobbering just for variety.
Tsulagi
Obama doesn’t think Universal Healthcare should be mandated either. Wow, maybe he really is a unity pony. He’s already in bipartisan agreement with McCain.
Dennis - SGMM
As we used to say in Texas, the Clinton campaign couldn’t pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions were printed on the heel.
Svensker
Gee, does that mean if McCain beats the MUP, I won’t have to file my taxes? That WOULD be nice.
TenguPhule
If it’s Bin Laden vs McCain mano a mano, I’m gonna have to put my money on the smart one.
jake
Joooohn! Dug Jay is copying offa Darrell, make him stop!
incontrolados
Despite you guys, I’m doing the Obama thing. And working it.
Despite your trashing of me. Remember that. (I’m Chase on that blogspot.)
Haters, spoofs, blogwhores, I don’t care.
John and Jen seem to have stumbled upon the right candidate. Good for you two. Happy happy joy joy.
Dennis - SGMM
McCain had better publish a clarification pronto. There are any number of Republican Senators and Congressmen who will be very put out if they think that McCain is opposed to man dates.
nycmoderate
Appropos of nothing having to do with this post, I was in Morgantown today. What a gorgeous place. I’ve driven thru WV before, but never really stopped. I ate at the Cracker Barrell up on the hill and the view is just stunning.
Oh and as an Obama volunteer myself who feels you’re likely, er, leaning towards Obama and away from Clinton, may I suggest getting involved there in advance of the May 13th primary? If you haven’t already, of course. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/wvhome
Dug Jay
Come now, TenguPhule. I’ve seen house pets and tropical fish that were smarter than you. Everytime I read one of your profanity laced rants, I envision your pudgy face with spittle dripping from each side of your mouth as your fingers race across the keyboard. Even Obama doesn’t support the Universal Healthcare that you and TZ apparently want.
p.lukasiak
yeah, right, ‘the will of the people’…. based on a delegate selection system that gives one delegate for every 15,500 voter in Ohio, one delegate for every 6,300 voters in Louisiana, one delegate for every 5,300 voters in Utah, and one delegate for every 1,180 caucus goers in Idaho.
I mean, if you had half a brain, you’d realize that delegates do not in any way reflect ‘the will of the people’ — especially when it comes to caucus delegates.
As for the idea that Hillary’s emphasis on Obama’s lack of preparation for the job of President — are you really serious? Do you think that if were the nominnee, this would be one of the primary themes of the McCain campaign?
It looks the the Obama bubble is popping, so get a grip and deal with in. In eight years, when he has had time to get the necessary knowledge and experience to sit in the Oval Office, I’ll probably be happy to vote for him. But deal with the fact that he’s not ready, and that your Clinton Derangement Syndrome is at the heart of your problem
The Grand Panjandrum
Bill Murray? Dan Aykroyd? Harold Ramis? OK I give up! Who?
TenguPhule
He doesn’t actively resist it, either.
And that is the difference between him and FuckStain McCain.
Obama endorses improvement to the Health Care system. He sees a problem, though his solution doesn’t go far enough for me and TZ.
Fuckstain thinks its all good.
And you Dug Jay, are only slobbering on the knob.
shortstop
Am starting to see “Clinton has more popular votes” cropping up here and there. Can’t find a popular vote tracker anywhere (probably because the popular vote has nothing to do with the established and agreed-upon process.) But anyone know where it’s being tracked? Thanks.
I’ve read this three times and can make no sense of it. Perhaps if I start inserting random words, I can crack the code.
weenus
Yeah and Hillary’s path to the white house consists solely of super delegates. Funny that.
TenguPhule
We wouldn’t have a problem with it if not for:
1. Hillary is building up Fuckstain McCain at the same time.
2. Her claims to being better prepared were not undercut by reality.
Better apologists, please.
Dennis - SGMM
John McCain.
jrg
McCain couldn’t find Bin Laden if his number was programmed into the Jitterbug(c)… Before this is all over, we’ll discover that OBL was standing next to McCain’s keys the whole time.
TenguPhule
Thank you for that lovely picture.
PeterJ
p.lukasiak, if you or Clinton has a problem with how the delegates are given out, then my advice is to fix that between elections not during one.
Trying to change things during an election only makes you look like a sore loser.
Pathetic.
p.lukasiak
I’ve been tracking it myself. Obama is up by 206K votes (not including wyoming). That includes reported/estimated caucus participant, except for Washington, where the “beauty contest” numbers were used.
TenguPhule
In other news, Water is Wet.
A vote for Fuckstain McCain is a vote for $10 a gallon gas.
Dug Jay
Just saw this on JOM re all you Obamamaniacs:
TenguPhule
Translated for BJ.
p.lukasiak
Peter, I’m merely pointing out that the process of selecting pledged delegates is ‘undemocratic’ and delegate counts do not reflect ‘the will of the people’.
I’m not the one trying to change the rules — its Obama supporters. The rule is that you need a to get a supermajority (aqbout 60% or 2024) of available pledged delegates in order to lock in the nomination — otherwise the superdelegates are supposed to use their judgement
THERE IS NO ‘MAJORITY OF DELEGATE’ RULE
THERE IS NO ‘POPULAR VOTE PLURARITY’ RULE
THERE IS NO ‘MOST STATES WON’ RULE’
that’s right… OBama probably won’t even get a majority of the votes — enough votes have been cast for other candidates (330K for Edwards in FL and SC alone) that a ‘popular vote’ win probably won’t be a majority.
Dug Jay
TenguPhule translates to “I love underage boys.”
PeterJ
With all the infighting right now, I find concern trolls like Dung Jay a bit underwhelming. They really need to improve their game or wait until the general election.
myiq2xu
IOW – The American people want McCain working the graveyard shift on the White House switchboard.
TenguPhule
TMI.
TenguPhule
I hope Obama runs that one. And one with Hillary there too.
myiq2xu
I can picture it now. McCain says “Madam President. You need need to take this call.”
TenguPhule
Yes, a pretty picture indeed.
The Grand Panjandrum
Clinton crossed the line and publicly supported a Republican candidate, and THAT is a clear violation of the Zell Miller Rule. She should be stripped of her SD status for that violation, and she should resign her candidacy as a sign of good faith to the Democratic Party. Period.
She’s a treacherous sniveling weasel. If New York wants to keep her as a junior Senator I have no problem with that. But she should in no way be allowed to be a national representative of the Democratic Party. She does not deserve it.
The Grand Panjandrum
And Obama supporters will have as much success changing the rules as Hillary had success convincing her husband to get off his ass and save a half million Rwandans from being hacked to death with machetes.
P.S.
1. Clinton supporters won’t change the rules.
2. Obama supporter won’t change the rules.
3. Clinton won’t change the rules.
4. Obama won’t change the rules.
5. Various groups may lobby the DNC but the only ones who can change the rules are the DNC committees.
weenus
Yet he leads in the popular vote count, dickweed, which by all counts reflects the current delegate count. Get over it, unless Clinton pulls a Bush…Obama wins. The sooner Hillary gets the hell out of the race, the sooner we can get to beating McCain. Sour Grapes is what’s going on right now.
PeterJ
p.lukasiak, ok, so even a lead in the popular vote won’t be enough for Obama any longer? Now it has to be a majority? I’m guessing you no longer believe that Clinton will get more votes than Obama then?
The tale of the moving goal post…
Maybe you should check your version of the rules, it’s not a super majority, it’s a simple majority.
And the superdelegates were added to make certain that the voters wouldn’t elect someone that would end up losing every state.
It is obvious that neither Obama nor Clinton is that kind of candidate.
So the superdelegates should respect the outcome of the election. And they would do that the best by making sure that the candidate with the most delegates gets nominated.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
In which case the super delegates will look very carefully at the impact on down ticket races (which affect many of them very directly) and choose Obama by a comfortable margin.
Face it – unless something very dramatic happens to change this race, Obama is going to be the nominee. Texas was a wash, and despite what the blathering idiots on the MSM keep telling you, her win in Ohio was not big enough.
Her lead in PA is already shrinking just like it did in TX and OH. This means that she isn’t going to get a 20-30 point blowout, which is what she needs to make up for the fact that all the other remaining states are a wash at best.
Hillary ankle-biting Obama and doing her very best 1972 Ed Muskie/Jimmy Carter imitation doesn’t count as dramatic, because it’s just pathetic. The only thing it is doing is royally pissing a bunch of people off and blowing any change that Hillary might once have had of being offered the VP spot.
This contest is now like an Olympic skating final where one contestant has already finished their long program and is sitting in the box with a bunch of 9.8 and 9.9 scores. The other contestant still due up might conceivably be able to pull off a miracle and score an improbable set of 9.9 and 10.0 scores to take the gold, but it doesn’t look very likely.
Martin
Since the Clinton camp is running on foreign policy experience that doesn’t exist and her supporters are defending it to the death, are you sure you know what the word ‘hysterical’ means?
p.lukasiak
sorry, but his popular vote plurality is a mere 0.7% or so. His lead among delegates selected in caucuses and primaries is 5.3%, according to the Times count. (The AP has that lead at 5.5%.) In other words, his lead among delegates is about 7.5 times his lead in the popular vote.
weenus
Right…and he’s LEADING!! In both Popular vote and the vote that really matters…delegates. You spin like a retarded bushbot.
In other news here’s how Hillary gets her donations:
She steels them
p.lukasiak
the number of total votes is, and will be, so close (and so polluted by the caucus system) that its irrelevant.
Down-ticket races are one thing to consider. The candidates potential strength and weaknesses will also play a role — and most of that stuff won’t be known for months.
L. Ron Obama
They reflect ‘the will of the Clintons’ — or at least they did when the Clintons helped write the rules. Now that those rules are working against Hillary–or more accurately, now that her campaign has failed to take strategic advantage of them–they’re profoundly undemocratic.
I’m not sure I want a president who is unable to adapt to realities on the ground. It’s pretty unfair that Iran is enjoying a resurgence thanks to our missteps in Iraq. Maybe if we complain it’s unfair, they’ll back off?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
and before anyone pursues the 1972 analogy further than it deserves, let me point out a few discrepancies
1 – Obama is orders of magnitude better funded than McGovern was in 1972.
2 – Eagleton is no longer available to take the VP nom.
3 – The Clinton loyalists today have nothing like the establishment machine that kneecapped McGovern in 1972 because losing to Nixon was a small price to pay for getting their party back from the DFH’s.
4 – McCain is not the incumbent President, and the guy who is the incumbent President will not be very welcome on the campaign trail in swing states. Prediction: W spends a lot of time campaigning for McCain in Utah, Idaho and Alabama. Missouri or Minnesota not so much. New Jersey – fuggetaboutit.
5. What is the “southern strategy” for the GOP today? They owned the south in the 2000 and 2004 elections and still barely hung on to win – nothing but vulnerabilities there. What historically blue region is the GOP going to threaten to poach from Obama, compared with Nixon taking the south away from the Dems in 1972?
6. How ’bout them riots at the 2004 Democratic convention that everybody still remembers – oops, never mind…
7. I grew up with Richard Nixon. I knew Richard Nixon. John McCain – you’re no Richard Nixon.
Martin
Woo! No taxes! No speed limits! No draft to protect our country!
Good times!
PeterJ
Here’s a fun fact. In the 1936 general election Franklin D. Roosevelt got more than 65 times as many electoral votes than Alf Landon despite just getting 66% more votes.
One can only hope that Alf Landon didn’t start to whine about the rules being unfair and that he wanted to change them.
Another fun fact. If Kerry had been declared the winner of Ohio in 2004, then Bush would have won the popular vote but lost the election.
The point here being that the popular vote doesn’t count. It’s the delegates (or the electoral votes) that matter.
The rules doesn’t say that the candidate needs to have a majority of the total votes. The rules say that a candidate needs a majority of delegates.
If Clinton hadn’t decided to do a Giuliani and ignore a couple of primaries in February things might have been different for her. Who knows?
PeterJ
Bush campaigns for/with McCain in some red state, some democratic group cuts a political ad from it and airs in the swing states.
demimondian
Actually, PeterJ, I’m sure that there are a number of would-be Michael Moore’s out there plotting Bush-McCain viral videos already. (That’s not much of a prediction, seeing as how I’m one of them, at least if you ignore the desire to be an ex-Nader-Backer.)
PeterJ
There’s nothing in the rules about total votes.
There’s nothing in the rules about the unfairness of the caucus system to some canidates that won’t complain about it until they find out that the caucus system is unfair to them.
Pb
p.luk,
Got some more math for ya.
ThymeZone
Still, he is doing the Peace With Honor routine.
misc
Wow.
Many of you guys (and gals) are easily baited by trolls. We’re just getting started here. The honorable thing is to ignore the retards, and hoist the intellectually dishonest upon their petards.
PeterJ
Classy.
But moves like that might take her all the way to the presidency.
In the end winning is all the counts.
You just have to get rid of all the mirrors afterwards, cause if you’re still able to look at yourself, then there’s something seriously wrong with you…
zsa
Everything indicates that Obama goes to the convention with a lead of over 100 pledged delegates. The supers can overturn that if they want. There are 795 supers. Keep in mind that the current commitments from supers about who they support mean absolutely nothing. Hillary has to win the supers by a margin more than Obama’s pledged delegate lead.
That’s going to be tough to do if Obama appears to be even slightly electable in the GE. The only way Clinton wins this is by destroying Obama so completely that the supers are willing to take the heat for overturning the results of the primary process (it’s not quite the will of the people, but it is the legitimate result of the state-by-state process).
So Clinton is going to get even uglier over the weeks leading up to the PA primary. She has to Swift Boat Obama, and apparently the plan is to justify it by saying that that’s what the Republicans would do in the GE anyway.
But the MUP is made of sterner stuff than that … he glitters with pixie dust and golden sparkles … and given the results of the election for Hastert’s seat, I think the supers will jump on board for the flying Pony ride.
However, the HRC supporters here might be well-advised to consider ahead of time what their response will be when their candidate’s faction of the party resorts to Swift-Boating an opposing candidate …
Pb
zsa,
Note my math link above; it’s not even 795 supers, really, once the 76 add-ons are allocated. Other than that, I pretty much agree. I’ll just add that I think HRC’s game here is both unwinnable and self-destructive. I guess we’ll see if she goes on to regret it, or if she just ends up blaming other people for the resultant fallout. Ah well.
PeterJ
There’s more.
It’s time for an intervention.
Martin
As far as I’m concerned, her argument for seating FL and MI just went out the window. She can’t claim respect for the will of FL and MI voters if she’s willing to overturn that will by flipping pledged delegates. Since flipping pledged delegates is technically legal according to the rules, then not seating FL and MI gets upheld by the same reasoning.
I have to say, I don’t mind the mudslinging half as much as the intellectual dishonesty that she demonstrates. Being a mean fucker is undesirable in a President, but not necessarily disabling. Being intellectually dishonest is a death sentence and trumps all else.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Bad move on his part.
To paraphrase Kissinger, McCain has now, before the general election has even begun, started handing out salty snacks, and is hoping nobody gets thirsty between now and November
This may be the worst political move he’s made in the campaign so far. He just conceded the initiative on this issue to the Democratic nominee, and every time he tries to tack to the middle to narrow the distance between the parties, all we have to do is shift the goalposts over a little more to make him squirm, wiggle, and shift some more.
He would have been far better off sticking to his guns (literally and metaphorically). What’s the point of electing a warmonger who doesn’t believe in the war himself any more? Can you imagine the campaign commercials you could make with this: (visual scene of troops loading up and driving off into the sunset, voice over “Even John McCain doesn’t believe we can continue to stay in Iraq forever. It’s long past time that we brought our proud veterans home to the hero’s welcome they deserve. That’s why back in 2006 when the Republican party was failing to provide decent medical benefits for our returning troops, I voted to…”)
Remember, Nixon’s “Peace with Honor” slogan was first used in the 1968 campaign, when the Democratic Party owned the war, not the GOP. Nixon stuck a knife right into the crack that was splitting the Democrats apart into two factions. This time the shoe is on the other foot.
In comparing McCain with Nixon, I was thinking more about Nixon’s political killer instincts (in his prime), the fact that he knew where all the bodies were buried, and that his campaign team was so good at framing messages that they were able to make an opponent who’d flown 35 bombing missions in WW2 look like a Quaker.
Can you imagine what Nixon would have to say (behind closed doors and with the tapes rolling) about the lackwits running the GOP today?
PeterJ
I’d love to hear how Clinton going after Obama’s pledged delegates can be justified…
Obviously the caucus system is unfair so anything goes.
Since Clinton won the states that count it’s her right to go after the pledged delegates from states that don’t count.
Since Obama only leads by 0.7% when it comes to the popular vote she should be able to get enough pledged delegates from him so his lead in delegates would only be 0.7%.
Chuck Butcher
By the time of the Convention it is quite reasonable to see Obama’s won delegate lead to have increased. Hillary is running out of states where she has an even chance. PA may well be the last one that could be her’s. As far as I can tell, she’s done for in OR; the remaining question is how badly. Indiana is a big question mark. MS is going to hurt her, the question is how badly.
If the Hillary BS stopped today this Primary could do some real good for the Party by continuing. I have no belief she will stop her crap, though it may run out. I am incredibly disappointed to see the Rovian element enter the Primary. People who have watched Hillary closely for years predicted that if her path was not smooth we’d see this side of her. She’ll stop running when a nominee is chosen.
Super delegates are voters and they’re going to vote the way a voter does, by their own calculations and people trying to set conditions on are bound to be disappointed. I don’t know what they’re going to do. I do know that a lot of calculations are going to enter the picture with them. I also know that every one of them has devoted large pieces of their lives to the Democratic Party and they’re not going to be casual with it. The OR Governor declared for Hillary a long time ago, he may re-think that or he may not but the calculus has changed since he made that statement. I like Ted Kulongoski in a lot of ways, but sometimes he’s a tad hasty and has to do some backing and filling.
The Democratic Primary isn’t democratic? The answer to that is that it both is and is not. It isn’t designed to be a beauty contest. In the first place delegates are apportioned by the vote for the Democratic candidate in the preceding election so it cannot be completely vote sensitive. It is also based on the idea that a Democrat is being chosen. Some states (OR) have closed Primaries and that is the State Party’s choice. Some allow Independents, some are completely open. Some are caucuses. Closed Primaries are predicated on the notion that it is our nominee. Caucuses are predicated on two things, available money for election and dedication to the cause. If it’s not important to you then so what? There are states where the Primary turn out probably exceeded the vote for the Democrat so their votes are discounted in delegate selection, and???
The DNC has tried really hard to do both reflect Democratic sentiment and build winning campaigns. I didn’t say democratic. Some of you whining about it will never make a call or knock on a door or put up a sign or contribute a nickle and the system isn’t designed to make you the most important. You know you won’t and they know you won’t and they’ll deal with reality not your wishes and they’ll put emphasis on those who’ll try to make it work.
I don’t want Hillary to win the Primary and I don’t think she will. I think that between a solid delegate lead and an ability to show vote draw and coattails Obama is going to take the supers needed. I think it will probably go on the first ballot. These people want to win the elections and that is primary in their thinking. Some will have debts to pay and they’ll line up with Hillary, that’s inevitable, but Hillary doesn’t have that much in the till or on the books.
Look at this, she’s a term and part Senator and ex-First Wife. That is not a huge clout, the wife part is 8 years ago and has some baggage. Some of the State Party delegates are going to have emotional favorites and go that way, regardless; but those positions don’t come free of activism and political activity and they understand politics, probably better than most on this Blog. Most of the supers are going to try real hard to be real smart about it. You’re stuck with that and it is actually not that bad an idea. Let’s say Hillary’s tax forms leak something horrid…or say the Rezko mess blows up, those votes might be real meaningful after all the Primaries are done. People keep thinking they must do something real stupid because it’s narrowly possible, that is not the case. If Hillary keeps doing damage to the DNC and Democratic electorate those people are going to take a real hard look at that. I think her tactics regarding MI/FL & DNC are the stupidest thing she could do regarding supers. They know the actual scoop on that one.
D-Chance.
Perhaps instead of worrying about what Mrs Clinton is saying about Obama, his camp should worry about what Susan Power is saying to the BBC… that his “bringing the troops home in 16 months” is little more than bullshit red meat for the rubes (i.e., typical Democrat voters), that he won’t know for sure what he’s going to do in Iraq until he talks to the generals in charge and get information that’s not currently available to him as a non-president. IOW, right now, he’s talking out his ass, and that’s according to his own “rock star” (now former) advisor.
Go ahead and nominate Obama over Hillary. In six months, he’ll do good to get 40% of the vote. He’s an empty suit, a blank produced by the liberal Chicago Party Machine… he talks pretty; but he lacks substance. There’s no “there” there (h/t Rod Dreher’s blog).
cleek
i think i’d rather get my voting advice from someone who doesn’t consider me a “rube”, if it’s all the same to you. but, your concern is noted.
p.lukasiak
not quite as impressed with this one as with your previous cite.
Clinton’s initial lead in super-delegates split that group into three camps…those eager to endorse Clinton early, those eager to endorse someone else, and those who didn’t want to endorse anyone just yet. Obama now has just about all the “endorse anyone but Clinton” SDs, and the uncommitted are waiting to see what happens. (Remember those 50 SDs that Obama had in his pocket? They seem to have vanished, because of the results of last Tuesday, and IMHO were willing to go with BHO based on the assumption that he would win Texas, and be close in Ohio—and if that had happened, they would have signalled to Clinton that it was over.)
p.lukasiak
Its called second ballot voting. Delegates are pladged to vote for the candidate on the first ballot (IIRC, some on the second as well), and after that everything is free to choose who they wish.
PeterJ
p.lukasiak, where did Clinton say that she was only going after them on the second ballot? Or is that just the only way you can justify her actions, by knowning more than what she’s said?
Thing is, pledged delegates, like presidential electors, doesn’t have to vote for the candidate they represent, not on the first ballot or the second. They can change if they want to. In some states they may be punished for it, but only after they have voted.
This is the reason that you pick people that you trust to be delegates.
Perhaps you should read the rules?
Clinton and her top campaign staffers seem to have a problem answering when they would give up. When you don’t know when to stop then that’s a problem.
PaulW
Just read somewhere that the girl in the 3 A.M. commercial supports Obama.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
tBone
Concern Troll is . . . concerned.
Pb
p.lukasiak,
My take on the superdelegate psychology is that there’s a bloc of superdelegates out there who really want this to end, but don’t want to be accused of prematurely ending the process. Therefore, I think they’ll probably end up going for Obama at some point in the next few months, although it’ll be interesting to see when, and if they do so en masse. Instead, Obama has been getting a steady trickle of superdelegate support for a while now.
P.S. Much as you might like to paint the scenario as “anybody but Clinton”, I’m sure there are quite a few superdelegates that are genuinely for Obama as well. FYI.
Z
Hillary & McCain sittin’ in a tree,
K*I*S*S*I*N*G!!
Tom Hilton
Which is the point I made here a few days ago. Clinton may beat Obama on this turf (‘experience’, ‘national security credentials’, the ‘commander in chief threshhold’), but McCain annihilates her. (Not fairly, maybe–truth is, no sentient human should trust someone as batshit crazy as McCain within a hundred miles of the authority to start a war–but in the public mind right now, that’s just the way it is. And Clinton just pre-emptively conceded the point.)
Martin
Unnamed official, mind you. So, first ballot are up for grabs, and, whoa, wait, what is this again….
“All the rules will be going out the window”
Ah, yes. So, we can debate all we want on what is right by the rules. It doesn’t matter. They won’t be worrying about the rules and will just make shit up as they go along.
chopper
wait, i thought that she just upped and forgot to get the paperwork sent in time. that’s what myiq said.
DughZheh
Somehow,particularly versus McCain,Obama needs to turn his age and energy into a positive as far as the 3am nonsense.In my versions of the commercial(which are sure to alienate many voters over 60)we have Grandpa John McCain fast asleep,his hearing aid on the bedside table,and the phone ringing,and ringing,and ringing…
Or jumping out of bed too fast,falling,and wailing “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!”
Or making a detour to the john on his way to the warroom,and dribbling for the next 10 minutes.
(with apologies to Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn,two octongenerians I would want leading this country).