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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Deep Thought For The Day

Deep Thought For The Day

by Tim F|  March 12, 20089:19 am| 188 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics

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Remember that “national conversation on race” that we talked about but never had? Now we’re having it. Too bad for racists that the field is tilted the other way from when they tried to make it about OJ.

Open thread.

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Previous Post: « The Veep Stakes
Next Post: Spitzer Out »

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  1. 1.

    Lavocat

    March 12, 2008 at 9:26 am

    It’s simple: fire Ferraro’s ass. Now.

  2. 2.

    Lavocat

    March 12, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Good info says Spitzer will be resigning this afternoon, BTW.

  3. 3.

    Jen

    March 12, 2008 at 9:29 am

    I’d like to quote the Backyardigans.

    Racing day, it’s racing day
    Racing day, it’s racing day!
    It’s not self-effacing day, today’s the day we race.

    repeat chorus
    It’s not sausage casing day, today’s the day we race.

    repeat chorus
    It’s not puppy-chasing day, today’s the day we race.

    repeat chorus
    It’s not doily-lacing day, today’s the day we race.

  4. 4.

    Punchy

    March 12, 2008 at 9:29 am

    No, here’s a deeper thought.

    God damn, to think Cole once belonged to these fucking idiots….just wow.

  5. 5.

    Zifnab

    March 12, 2008 at 9:30 am

    I think it is unfair that Barack Obama is getting all this media attention because he is black, while he takes a free pass on his “cut-and-run” Middle East policy, he absolute and total lack of experience, and the fact that he is of a clearly inferior race.

    When will the media wake up and start asking the really tough questions?

  6. 6.

    Jake

    March 12, 2008 at 9:31 am

    I would like to thank Ms. Ferraro for proving my theory that the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the “monster” comment would come back and bite Camp Clinton’s ass Right Off.

  7. 7.

    L Boom

    March 12, 2008 at 9:32 am

    Curious about the odds. I think Ferraro’s statements are very much calculated for the PA primaries, so I have a feeling she won’t get booted. She’ll just be a target of a lot of vitriol by Dems that will “prove how badly whites are discriminated against” to a lot of casual racists in PA.

    Note: I grew up in PA outside of Harrisburg (in the Alabama section of the state) and racism is alive and well there, although much more of the dog-whistle variety that Ferraro’s gunning for rather than overt racists. More the kind where an office full of white guys sits around and complains about the one black guy in the company who could only be an affirmative action hire than the cross-burning types.

  8. 8.

    Wilfred

    March 12, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Yeah, let’s talk:

    No, I’m not an American. I’m one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy

    That’s Malcolm, referring to white liberal hypocrisy, the kind once embodied by I.F. Stone and now assumed by Clinton and her allies.

  9. 9.

    joe

    March 12, 2008 at 9:42 am

    Michael from The Office is Geraldine Ferraro?

    I never knew.

  10. 10.

    Zifnab

    March 12, 2008 at 9:42 am

    I think Ferraro’s statements are very much calculated for the PA primaries, so I have a feeling she won’t get booted.

    And why would she? A veiled racist remark against Obama is entirely different from calling Hillary a “monster”, then attempting to swiftly retract the statement as inappropriate.

    Clinton Rules, Bitches!

  11. 11.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 9:42 am

    That’s Malcolm, referring to white liberal hypocrisy, the kind once embodied by I.F. Stone and now assumed by Clinton and her allies.

    Malcolm Forbes?

  12. 12.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 9:45 am

    I think Ferraro’s statements are very much calculated for the PA primaries, so I have a feeling she won’t get booted. She’ll just be a target of a lot of vitriol by Dems that will “prove how badly whites are discriminated against” to a lot of casual racists in PA.

    As a black dude, I can honestly say that traveling through Central PA is much more nerve wracking than travelling in the deep south. At least in the south you some black folk

    OTOH, my wife and I are vendors at an arts festival in downtown Harrisburg every fall and have always been received warmly.

    Nevertheless, it’s no coincidence that PA has more Klan activity than any other state in America. It still remains a very racist place, and once you get out side of the urban centers you can feel it roiling just beneath the surface of forced civility.

    I don’t expect Obama to win PA, but I think the cities will make it too close for the outcome to be of any help to Hillary.

  13. 13.

    joe

    March 12, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Malcolm Forbes?

    Malcolm McDowell?

  14. 14.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 9:51 am

    It’s a tough one to tackle, this race issue. I do believe that people tend to be a bit over sensitive about some comments and I do believe that political correctness gets taken way too far. At the same time, I acknowledge the fact that I am a white male with very little knowledge of the experiences many blacks face these days (or have in the not too distant past). I can’t empathize because I have no reference point and I try to keep that in mind.
    As far as Ferraro goes, fuck her. I’m not going to say she’s a racist. I doubt that she is…but she has a history of saying these sorts of things now. She said it about Jesse Jackson in 88 and now Obama in 08 – and they are two vastly different candidates who both happen to be black.
    If there is anything I have been irritated by in this race (no pun intended), it is this focus on identity politics and demographics from both surrogates of the candidates (on either side) and the national media. I think it’s great that a black man won Iowa and I think it’s great that a woman won New Hampshire (though I was personally rooting for the black man). These are great steps for our country…but instead of appreciating those simple facts, we get the Clinton/Jesse Jackson comments in South Carolina. We get headlines like “Deep racial divide in MS exit polls”. So on and so forth. It just gets old.
    Again, I don’t claim to have an answer or an infallible viewpoint, I just get tired of the focus being on how black Obama is or Clinton’s feminist credentials. I want a good president and I am perfectly fine with that president being a white male, black male, female, etc. I just want them to represent me well and do a good job.

  15. 15.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Posting this here since John gave me a better forum for it:

    A few more thoughts..

    1. If you’re a black person and you support Obama, could you support Hillary in a general election if she somehow wrangles it away from Obama?

    2. Can a Democrat win a general election in this country without enthusiastic support from the black population?

    3. Can these comments, superficially an issue of racism between whites and blacks, fester and hurt Hillary with other minority groups who have long seen underrepresentation in American politics, possibly even women??

    I don’t know the answers, but I think this is a “real” thing and if it gets traction in the media, these are the questions the Superdelegates are going to have to answer for themselves.

  16. 16.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Malcolm Forbes?

    Malcolm McDowell?

    No. Malcolm Jamal Warner, aka Theo Huxtable.

    If anyone knows about American racism, it’s Theo.

  17. 17.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 9:56 am

    referring to white liberal hypocrisy, the kind once embodied by I.F. Stone

    I had to go back and read Izzy Stone’s bio on wiki but I didn’t see anything about him embodying “white liberal hypocrisy.”

  18. 18.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 10:00 am

    No. Malcolm Jamal Warner, aka Theo Huxtable.

    If anyone knows about American racism, it’s Theo.

    My neighbor and I played the “things white people like” game recently. The Huxtables were on there. Right after mayonnaise.

  19. 19.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Can a Democrat win a general election in this country without enthusiastic support from the black population?

    Probably not, which makes false accusations of racism against Hillary very disturbing.

  20. 20.

    shortstop

    March 12, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Curious about the odds. I think Ferraro’s statements are very much calculated for the PA primaries, so I have a feeling she won’t get booted. She’ll just be a target of a lot of vitriol by Dems that will “prove how badly whites are discriminated against” to a lot of casual racists in PA.

    Bingo.

  21. 21.

    jcricket

    March 12, 2008 at 10:06 am

    On point with what John posted yesterday about Spitzer bringing his wife up to stand beside him on stage while he “apologized” is this political cartoon.

    While I don’t get where Ferraro is going with these comments. I think they’re less calculated (i.e. dog whistle politics to speak to disgruntled middle/lower-class whites) and more a reflection of someone who thought they were saying one thing, which was interpreted by most differently, who subsequently dug her heels in. (i.e. find yourself in a hole, stop digging).

  22. 22.

    p.a.

    March 12, 2008 at 10:08 am

    shortstop Says:

    Curious about the odds. I think Ferraro’s statements are very much calculated for the PA primaries, so I have a feeling she won’t get booted. She’ll just be a target of a lot of vitriol by Dems that will “prove how badly whites are discriminated against” to a lot of casual racists in PA.

    Bingo.

    Who would have thought Hillary’s salvation would depend on Reagan Democrats!

  23. 23.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 10:10 am

    1. If you’re a black person and you support Obama, could you support Hillary in a general election if she somehow wrangles it away from Obama?

    It depends.

    If she and her cronies keep up the dirty campaigning, it will become increasingly difficult to hold my nose and vote for her.

    Problem is, the alternative is far, far, worse: President John McCain. This outcome is almost assured to result in more war, more economic turmoil and an acrimonious political climate.

    This is why I curse our two-party, privately funded, winner take all electoral system more with each passing cycle.

    That being said, at this point Hillary has proven that doesn’t deserve my vote, but neither does McCain.

    A good VP choice would go a long way towards making me feel better (not good mind you, better..than shitty) about voting for her. Dodd or Richardson would be a good fit.

    Either way, she will get my (reluctant) support if she somehow wins the nomination.

  24. 24.

    RSA

    March 12, 2008 at 10:19 am

    My neighbor and I played the “things white people like” game recently.

    For a Jon Swift-like take, check out stuff white people like. Pretty funny,

  25. 25.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 10:22 am

    Probably not, which makes false accusations of racism against Hillary very disturbing.

    Perhaps Hillary should hire you to teach both her and her surrogates how not to make comments that might be misconstrued as racist, racially insensitive or condescending towards certain minorities.

    Her campaign seems intent on stepping into the same pile of shit on the race issue, over and over again.

    She and Bill screwed the pooch in South Carolina.

    Period.

    Whether her campaign has been making an intentional play for the “dog-whistle racist” vote or it has been unintentionally stumbling over the sensibilities of the general electorate, it does not speak well of her judgement or her ability to govern.

    The bad luck for Hillary is that people seem to want to belive bad stuff about her, so these memes stick to her like glue.

  26. 26.

    Harley

    March 12, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Poor Geraldine. This is just Rest Home Talk — she’s old and out of touch with the current political/racial realities in the country. That she shares the Clinton entitlement — how dare he interrupt the coronation?! — only makes it worse. But I’d stop well short of calling her a racist.

    But it’s also clear that this is exactly the conversation the Clintons want to have before the Pennsylvania primary, and in its way, is simply another subset of the He’s Not Qualified line of attack.

    In this case, the lovely notion that he is an affirmative action hire. Thanks HIllary. Just what we needed.

  27. 27.

    rob!

    March 12, 2008 at 10:25 am

  28. 28.

    L Boom

    March 12, 2008 at 10:32 am

    jj, it’s a strange place for sure. It seems like everyone gets along quite well across racial lines in the actual city, but it gets real bad real quick once you get to the suburbs. Haven’t lived there in a long time, and when I go to visit my parents it still freaks me out a it how angry people are there about race.

    I think it’s a Rust Belt scapegoat thing; the economy there went straight to hell so quickly that everyone’s just looking for someone to blame, and with such a homogeneous population over most of the state, it was pretty easy to find someone to pin it on. All the anger over immigration seems to bear that out, too.

  29. 29.

    Wilfred

    March 12, 2008 at 10:33 am

    I had to go back and read Izzy Stone’s bio on wiki but I didn’t see anything about him embodying “white liberal hypocrisy.”

    That would be Malcolm X, of course. It was I.F. Stone who called Malcolm a “Babbitt”, a huckster salesman for Islam. This because Stone and his friends at the Nation liked their Negroes the way Elvis liked his, with the small addition of their undying gratitude and their votes.

    White liberal hypocrisy is the thin line between paternalism and racism, which is only crossed when white liberal power structures are really threatened, as they are now.

  30. 30.

    cbear

    March 12, 2008 at 10:37 am

    “national conversation on race”

    I’d prefer we have a “national conversation” on assholes.

    As in:
    Why are these assholes stealing our money.
    Why are these assholes sending our kids off to be maimed and killed in misbegotten and mismanaged wars.
    Why are these assholes decimating our miltary.
    Why are these assholes prosecutiing and imprisoning our fellow citizens based on party affiliations.
    Why are these assholes using our Constitution for toilet paper.
    ad infintium…

  31. 31.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Poor Geraldine. This is just Rest Home Talk—she’s old and out of touch with the current political/racial realities in the country. That she shares the Clinton entitlement—how dare he interrupt the coronation?!—only makes it worse. But I’d stop well short of calling her a racist.

    I was going to give her a pass for these reasons at first, but then she defended it…and then again this morning….and then I see via Ben Smith this morning that she said the exact same things about Jesse Jackson in 84′. So now, this is no McCain Moment (c wut i did thar?) this is a woman who believes that Obama is being allowed to steal this from Hillary because he’s black. It’s absurd on its face and I don’t see how we can avoid calling it a racist comment if using the word “periodically” to describe the way in which Hillary attacks Obama is sexist.

  32. 32.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Probably not, which makes false accusations of racism against Hillary very disturbing.

    You’re right. But it makes the accurate accusations even more disturbing.

    (And no, I don’t think Hillary is a racist. But she has used race as a wedge and some of her surrogates has made racist remarks.)

  33. 33.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 10:48 am

    Who would have thought Hillary’s salvation would depend on Reagan Democrats!

    (raises hand)

    That is, and always has been, the Clintons’ natural demographic.

  34. 34.

    cleek

    March 12, 2008 at 10:49 am

    my father’s family is from north-central PA and i learned more racial epithets from them than i’ve heard in my 11 years in NC, or that my wife learned from her Alabama-born mother. there probably wasn’t a black person within 100 miles of their little town, but somehow they managed to find a way to work all those slurs into conversation. nice people, but wow.

    beautiful country in that area, though.

  35. 35.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 10:51 am

    I think it’s a Rust Belt scapegoat thing; the economy there went straight to hell so quickly that everyone’s just looking for someone to blame, and with such a homogeneous population over most of the state, it was pretty easy to find someone to pin it on.

    Yeah, I get that sense too.

    Sure, people are nice to me, the “artsy negro from far away who isn’t here to take anything (jobs) from us”, but when I look around at the sheer devesation the economic displacement of the past 30 years has brought about in the Rust Belt, it’s difficult not to empathize with the fury a lot of these folks must be feeling.

    Everytime I go to a flea market, second hand store, or pawnshop (I collect old Vinyl LPs and electronic gadgets) in one of those states, the sheer volume of tools, work apparel and assorted gear that was formely devoted to industry; all for sale at cents on the dollar, brings home the truth about what has happened to a large sector of society.

    For the most part, these were honest, hardworking Americans who have been screwed over so Wall Street could make a buck, and it’s inescusable.

    I just wish there were some way to make them understand two things:

    1. It ain’t my fault

    2. We are on the same side.

  36. 36.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Whether her campaign has been making an intentional play for the “dog-whistle racist” vote or it has been unintentionally stumbling over the sensibilities of the general electorate, it does not speak well of her judgement or her ability to govern.

    That would be Malcolm X, of course. It was I.F. Stone who called Malcolm a “Babbitt”, a huckster salesman for Islam. This because Stone and his friends at the Nation liked their Negroes the way Elvis liked his, with the small addition of their undying gratitude and their votes.

    I hate repeating myself, but I keep hearing the same bullshit from Obots:

    When I first heard Russert’s debate question about Louis Farrakhan I thought it was ridiculous and unfair. I thought Hillary’s response over-the-top as well, although the whole thing seemed to be a tempest in a teapot.

    But then when Obama started reusing the “hoodwinked” and “bamboozled” lines from the Malcolm X movie, it clicked.

    He’s dogwhistling.

    Obama has previously been accused of plagiarism for using those lines. Now he’s using them again. In front of predominantly black audiences (again.)

    The movie was a portrayal of Malcolm X, a member of the Nation of Islam. Farrakhan’s group. Although there is no record of Malcolm X actually using those lines in a speech, most young people have no memory of Malcom X, and they are more familiar with the movie.

    Malcolm X was a racist and a follower of Elijah Muhammed, just like Louis Farrakhan. Some people believe Malcolm X had moved away from racism before he died, but the part of the movie that the speech is from was a portrayal of his racist days as a NOI minister in Harlem.

    From wikipedia:

    From his adoption of the Nation of Islam in 1952 until he left the organization in 1964, Malcolm X promoted the Nation’s teachings. He referred to whites as “devils” who had been created in a misguided breeding program by a black scientist, and predicted the inevitable (and imminent) return of blacks to their natural place at the top of the social order.

    Here’s the relevent part of the Malcolm X movie speech Obama’s “riffing” from:

    I’m gonna tell you like it really is. Every election year these politicians are sent up here to pacify us! They’re sent here and setup here by the White Man!
    This is what they do!
    They send drugs in Harlem down here to pacify us!
    They send alcohol down here to pacify us!
    They send prostitution down here to pacify us!
    Why you can’t even get drugs in Harlem without the White Man’s permission!
    You can’t get prostitution in Harlem without the White Man’s permission!
    You can’t get gambling in Harlem without the White Man’s permission!
    Every time you break the seal on that liquor bottle, that’s a Government seal you’re breaking!
    Oh, I say and I say it again, ya been had!
    Ya been took!
    Ya been hoodwinked!
    Bamboozled!
    Led astray!
    Run amok
    !

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled” lines talking about the Clintons. He’s using words closely associated with an infamous black racist to criticize Bill and Hillary.

    IOW – “Don’t trust ‘Whitey.'”

    If Hillary started talking to white, southern audiences about “states rights” nobody would think she was referring to arcane consitutional law issues.

  37. 37.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 12, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Shorter Ferraro: We want your votes! WE just don’t want Those People steering the Ship of state.

    Right or wrong; that is the message I hear. Jesus! I’m about as white as the come, but when I hear Ferraro saying she is being attacked because she’s white; I cringe. This country has a long way to go in race relations, and Democrats need to face the fact that they are part of problem.

    The Clinton camp is frustrated by its inability to land an effective blow on the the Obama campaign. Ferraro’s intemperate remarks exposed the bigotry that still exists in the Democratic Party.

    We would like to fool ourselves and believe that this attitude exists only in areas where uneducated, ignorant, mouth breathing rednecks live. Ferraro is none of those things. She could be the your neighbor in any upscale liberal leaning neighborhood.

  38. 38.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled” lines talking about the Clintons. He’s using words closely associated with an infamous black racist to criticize Bill and Hillary.

    Maybe he likes that movie. Maybe he likes those words. Seriously – if this is all you’ve got, you should throw in the towel.

    IOW – “Don’t trust ‘Whitey.’”

    Those are three words.

  39. 39.

    The Moar You Know

    March 12, 2008 at 10:59 am

    myiq:

    You have just jumped the shark. Congrats.

  40. 40.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Although there is no record of Malcolm X actually using those lines in a speech, most young people have no memory of Malcom X, and they are more familiar with the movie.

    Or maybe he likes Denzel Washington just a little too much. Have we checked Denzel’s countertops lately?

  41. 41.

    mightygodking

    March 12, 2008 at 11:00 am

    It takes serious balls to call Malcolm X – a man who was assassinated by the Nation of Islam for seeking reconciliation between whites and blacks – an “infamous black racist.”

    Of course, Mxy is trying to say that Ferraro’s comments were innocent, so what can you expect…

  42. 42.

    Nim, ham hock of liberty

    March 12, 2008 at 11:00 am

    Barack Obama is where he is today because of despite the color of his skin.

    Fixed Ferraro’s typo.

  43. 43.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 12, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled” lines talking about the Clintons. He’s using words closely associated with an infamous black racist to criticize Bill and Hillary.

    Ruh-roh. Sharks! Jump!

  44. 44.

    joe

    March 12, 2008 at 11:01 am

    The problem with trying to draw that parallel is that Obama doesn’t have to try to hide the fact that he’s accusing the Clinton campaign of playing on race, because there is nothing shameful about calling them out for that.

    While the Clinton campaign has to try to hide the fact that they’re playing the race card, because they know how deplorable it is.

  45. 45.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 11:01 am

    I hate repeating myself . . .

    ..but somehow I’ve got to make this jackalope run, dammit!

    Give it up, already. Put the poor thing out of its misery.

  46. 46.

    cleek

    March 12, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled” l

    you don’t read TPM much, do you?

  47. 47.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Of course, Mxy is trying to say that Ferraro’s comments were innocent, so what can you expect…

    Where the fuck did I say that?

  48. 48.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:08 am

    It takes serious balls to call Malcolm X – a man who was assassinated by the Nation of Islam for seeking reconciliation between whites and blacks – an “infamous black racist.”

    Of course, Mxy is trying to say that Ferraro’s comments were innocent, so what can you expect…

    Obama is clearly playing the race card.

  49. 49.

    Xenos

    March 12, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled” lines talking about the Clintons. He’s using words closely associated with an infamous black racist to criticize Bill and Hillary.

    Let me get this straight – Malcolm X never said these words, but now owns them, so that Obama saying them immediately associates Obama not with Malcolm X, but with Farrakhan?

    I am getting dizzy here.

    The whole point of the Malcolm X story, whether the autobiography or the movie, is that the Nation of Islam racism is as much of a bamboozlement as white racism. The underlying concept of baboozlement/hoodwinking goes a lot farther back than Malcolm X, though, and that is why both X and Obama make use of the term.

    Most Democrats under the age of 60, whether white or black, understand where the terms come from (‘bamboozle’ is catchier than ‘propagating false consciousness to the masses in order to divide the working class and so better exploit surplus labor’). No dog whistle there, just some clear communication using a well established and understood turn of phrase.

  50. 50.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:09 am

    you don’t read TPM much, do you?

    LOLLOLLOL JMM is TEH RACIZT!!!!!1uno

  51. 51.

    srv

    March 12, 2008 at 11:10 am

    That’s Malcolm, referring to white liberal hypocrisy, the kind once embodied by I.F. Stone and now assumed by Clinton and her allies

    That’s why I’d vote for Malcolm X.

    I’d like to think Obama offers something other than the status quo of the white, liberal hypocrisy and power structures, but I don’t see any evidence of it. In fact, he goes out of his way in his speeches to equate Americanas collective “suffering”.

    He doesn’t intend to ever actually get this country to the point of having the conversation – it is to be avoided. I can understand why, but it doesn’t create a reason to vote for him.

  52. 52.

    demimondian

    March 12, 2008 at 11:13 am

    Oh, come on, folks. Of course Geraldine knows what she’s talking about. I mean, really, when it comes to tokenism, she’s the world great expert on what it feels like to be a token offered up to soothe a beaten-upon constituency when the powerful knew it wouldn’t matter.

  53. 53.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    March 12, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Hey, look over here; is there a spine solidifying in the gelatinous ooze that is Congress?

  54. 54.

    jcricket

    March 12, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Have we checked Denzel’s countertops lately?

    Too busy smelting down his Oscar(s) already to make gold “frons” for his grill(tm) to install granite.

  55. 55.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Too busy smelting down his Oscar(s) already to make gold “frons” for his grill™ to install granite.

    racist

  56. 56.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Actually, I was surprised he used hoodwinked and bamboozled as well, but I never thought of Malcom X. I thought of all the literature I’ve read from the Reconstruction Era and the rest of the late 19th century (c. 1870-1915) in which blacks were portrayed as Sambos and chased out of the watermelon patch by Farmer White. To me it seemed to be an attempt on his part to take the racial connotations OUT of those words by applying then to the Clinton campaign. Or maybe he was calling them out for racism. Either way, it’s still not racist to say someone is being a racist when they are. On that point, myiq, you fail.

  57. 57.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:22 am

    in which blacks were portrayed as Sambos and chased out of the watermelon patch by Farmer White.

    ahhh…the good ol’ days. Hillary would’ve won the nom by now if ’twere 1880 again.

    Wait…

  58. 58.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 12, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Obama uses the “hoodwinked/bamboozled”…

    You tell ’em myiq! I’ll never forget when Obama said, “We didn’t land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us.”

    It’s only fair, and a clever strategy to boot, that Clinton works so hard to bring the Dixiecrats back into the fold.

  59. 59.

    jcricket

    March 12, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Too funny not to pass on, about why Obama’s win in Mississippi doesn’t count:

    Obama has only won One Mississippi. You have to make it to Ten Mississippi before it counts.

  60. 60.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Of course, Mxy is trying to say that Ferraro’s comments were innocent, so what can you expect…

    Where the fuck did I say that?

    Myiq doesn’t think Ferraro’s comments were innocent – that’s why he keeps trying to deflect, distract and divert everyone’s attention from them.

  61. 61.

    jcricket

    March 12, 2008 at 11:24 am

    racist

    Look, these are just the facts. If you can’t handle smack-talk about Denzel, maybe Obama shouldn’t be president :-)

  62. 62.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 11:28 am

    From the Orlando Sentinal:

    Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign is raising red flags about the idea of a revote in Florida to solve the mess over the state’s delegates to the presidential nominating convention. David Plouffle, campaign manager to Obama, noted that the lead advocate for a mail-in revote is Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, is a supporter of his opponent Sen. Hillary Clinton. Plouffle said any revote would need to get U.S. Justice Department approval.

    DOJ approval is needed presumably because of the Voting Rights Act.

    IOW – The plan is racist!

  63. 63.

    John S.

    March 12, 2008 at 11:30 am

    myiq:

    You have just jumped the shark. Congrats.

    Nah, he jumped the shark weeks ago. Right around the time he realized Hillary was a dead woman walking.

    Now he’s just in it to spin it!

  64. 64.

    Callisto

    March 12, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Let me get this straight – Malcolm X never said these words, but now owns them, so that Obama saying them immediately associates Obama not with Malcolm X, but with Farrakhan?

    I’m wondering that myself. So let me get this straight:

    1) Obama uses the word “hoodwink” in a speech.

    2) Denzel Washington once used the word “hoodwink” in a movie.

    3) In that movie, he was portraying Malcom X.

    4) ???

    5) Farrakhan, people. FARRAKHAN!

    It all adds up. Well, if you’re the sort who’s so good at math that you think Clinton is ahead.

  65. 65.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 11:34 am

    DOJ approval is needed presumably because of the Voting Rights Act.

    IOW – The plan is racist!

    There are a lot of reasons a mail-in vote needs to be approved by the DOJ. One of which is straight-up fraud. Hard to game up a fair election system on short notice and short of cash.

  66. 66.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 11:36 am

    Remember that “national conversation on race” that we talked about but never had? Now we’re having it.

    Okay, that was fun. Can we stop now?

  67. 67.

    Xenos

    March 12, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Okay, that was fun. Can we stop now?

    Excellent idea. In 20 years a lot of the people I do not want to have that conversation with will no longer be around.

    And my kids will be too busy playing video games online to get around to having it.

  68. 68.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:42 am

    …the idea of a revote in Florida to solve the mess over the state’s delegates…

    What “mess?” There is no mess. Florida broke the rules, knew what would happen if they broke the rules, broke them anyway, and now Hillary is complaining. The only mess is the stench of gaming the system.

  69. 69.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Oh brother :rolleyes:

    OK myiq,

    Let’s go through this step by step, shall we?

    Hillary Clinton in SC


    “Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964” and “It took a president to get it done.”

    This remark fails on several counts. In one breath it disregards everything that happened in concert with Dr. King’s speeches and Lyndon B. Johnson’s strongarming the Civil Rights Act into passage. The voter registration drives, sit-ins, protests, arrests, beatings, murders and bombings?

    Meh.

    In HillaryworldTM, all you need is a deciderator and things get done.

    Racist? No. Condescending and paternalist. Hells yeah.

    Then there was the oblique spin around her losses in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, and Louisiana. Hillary cited an “energized African-American” electorate as the reasons for her losses, which leads me to the question: Why bring race into the discussion at all Hillary? Moreover, up until her (and Bill’s) clumsy performance in South Carolina, the black electorate was much more evenly split between Hillary and Obama.

    Fast FWD to Ferraro’s remarks and Hillary’s not looking so hot to people who pay attention to such things. Let’s see if she sends the money from Ferraro’s fundraiser back.. my guess is that she can’t afford to.

    But then when Obama started reusing the “hoodwinked” and “bamboozled” lines from the Malcolm X movie, it clicked.

    You must be joking. Oh wait….you’re serious.

    1. Rotsa Ruck trying to tie the image of Obama to that of Malcolm X (vice the man who would become El-hajj Malik Shabazz).

    2. “Hoodwinked and Bamboozled” is a running joke amongst black folks. It’s a touchstone for its sheer “over the topness”.

    Nevertheless, you know why my mother said to me after South Carolina?

    “The Clinton’s have shown me their true colors”

    And in those eight words, I knew it was over for the Clintons. If you are a Democrat, when 70 year old black ladies turn on you, you are finished.

    Remember, Bill Clinton was largely beloved by the black elecorate, in spite of his laissez-faire economics and punitive welfare reforms. He was even called “America’s first black President” by Maya Angeolou, and few protested. Personal ancetdote and the polls inform me that this sentiment has almost completely eroded amongst black voters, largely due to the compelling nature of Obama himself but no doubt assisted by Clinton’s clumsy, inapt campaigning.

    Which brings me to my third and final point.

    3. Fuck you for thinking so little of voters who happen to be black; that we are swayed by nothing more than coded racial demogogery and clever speech.

    Here’s another clue asswipe: Issues matter to us too. The economy, the war, torture & human rights, the integrity of the constitution, the separation of powers, the USSC.

    If you get one thing through that thick skull of yours in this admittedly short lifetime, let it be this fact:

    First and foremost, all of these things matter to me. Not a black man, but an American.

  70. 70.

    TenguPhule

    March 12, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Okay, that was fun. Can we stop now?

    No, the floggings will continue until morale improves.

  71. 71.

    Wilfred

    March 12, 2008 at 11:44 am

    I give up. Even knowing that hot air is the rule and not the exception around here I just can’t participate at the level of abject stupidity required by people like myiq and p. Lukasiak.

    Any hope for the blogosphere becoming a public sphere has been crushed by the unrestricted access of ignorant bastards.

  72. 72.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 11:45 am

    There are a lot of reasons a mail-in vote needs to be approved by the DOJ. One of which is straight-up fraud. Hard to game up a fair election system on short notice and short of cash.

    GOS wants to reduce the delegates by 50% and split the delegates between HRC and BHO.

    Nice of kos to overrule the will of the people (in other states than his own) and give some free delegates to his candidate.

  73. 73.

    Snail

    March 12, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Oh my, jj, that was a magnificent beatdown.

  74. 74.

    L Boom

    March 12, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Whether her campaign has been making an intentional play for the “dog-whistle racist” vote or it has been unintentionally stumbling over the sensibilities of the general electorate, it does not speak well of her judgement or her ability to govern.

    Really all that’s left is for Mark Penn to do a press conference in blackface, then indignantly proclaim minstrelsy an important part of white heritage. Maybe he can cap it off by singing “Mammy” or something.

    What the hell planet are we on now?

  75. 75.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I give up. Even knowing that hot air is the rule and not the exception around here I just can’t participate at the level of abject stupidity required by people like myiq and p. Lukasiak.

    This is exactly how I felt Friday. I almost wrote a GCW to John to tell him I’d be back when he shitcanned the trolls. But things are much better this week. They seem to be imploding under the weight of their sheer ridiculousness.

  76. 76.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Oh my, jj, that was a magnificent beatdown.

    Only because he’s black.

  77. 77.

    John S.

    March 12, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Nice of kos to overrule the will of the people (in other states than his own) and give some free delegates to his candidate.

    I realize you have your shill-o-meter turned up to 11, but the fucking Florida House Democrats are opposed to any sort of do-over as well.

    In a statement, House members from Florida said they were committed to working with the DNC and state officials to find a solution to ensure that their 210 delegates take their place at the convention. However, “Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”

    Damn the Great Orange Satan! He’s got all the Florida congressional Democrats in his pocket, too!

  78. 78.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 11:50 am

    3. Fuck you for thinking so little of voters who happen to be black; that we are .

    Fuck you for putting words in my mouth.

    I said Obama was dogwhistling. Where did I say blacks are “swayed by nothing more than coded racial demogogery and clever speech?”

    Fuck you for assuming because I am white that I am racist.

  79. 79.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 11:52 am

    No, the floggings will continue until morale improves.

    Ahhh, now I get it. Thanks much!

  80. 80.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 11:52 am

    In a statement, House members from Florida said they were committed to working with the DNC and state officials to find a solution to ensure that their 210 delegates take their place at the convention. However, “Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”

    They want to seat them as-is based on the two primaries.

  81. 81.

    scrutinizer

    March 12, 2008 at 11:57 am

    They want to seat them as-is based on the two primaries.

    What two primaries? MI and FL didn’t have Democratic primaries, they only had preference polls.

  82. 82.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 11:59 am

    They want to seat them as-is based on the two primaries.

    Which they can’t do because then they sink any chance of a Democrat in the White House in 2009, which leaves us with the only viable alternative we’ve had all along. The nominee will be decided sans the delegates of Florida and Michigan, whose delegates will be seated by the subsequent nominee in a show of good faith and good will. This is how it was always going to go down and how it should still go down.

  83. 83.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    Where did I say blacks are “swayed by nothing more than coded racial demogogery and clever speech?”

    OK, then tell me what you mean by

    IOW – “Don’t trust ‘Whitey.’”

    Clearly, you think this is Obama’s intended message for black audiences.

    Just as

    If Hillary started talking to white, southern audiences about “states rights” nobody would think she was referring to arcane consitutional law issues.

    this can be considered dog-whistle racist code meant to appeal to segregationists (And as we all know, this very thing was integral to the Republican Southern Strategy)

    Anyway, the implication was clear.

    So was my reply.

    Fuck you for assuming because I am white that I am racist.

    I assume no such thing. Ill-informed paternalism maybe, but not racism.

  84. 84.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    Which they can’t do because then they sink any chance of a Democrat in the White House in 2009, which leaves us with the only viable alternative we’ve had all along. The nominee will be decided sans the delegates of Florida and Michigan, whose delegates will be seated by the subsequent nominee in a show of good faith and good will. This is how it was always going to go down and how it should still go down.

    So the disputed delegates should STFU until Obama is the nominee and then kiss his ass?

    How will the voters of Florida and Michigan who voted for Hillary feel about that? Will they be hoodwinked and bamboozled into voting for Obama in November?

  85. 85.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    How will the voters of Florida and Michigan who voted for Hillary feel about that?

    They should be pissed off the state party screwed up their chance to be a part of a historic campaign.

  86. 86.

    scrutinizer

    March 12, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    So the disputed delegates

    There are no delegates from MI and FL. There is only Hillary, who agreed that there would be no delegates from MI and FL, who is now turning her back on that agreement. Political opportunism, nothing more.

  87. 87.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Clearly, you think this is Obama’s intended message for black audiences.

    I said nothing about the effectiveness of his message, only it’s intent.

    I assume no such thing. Ill-informed paternalism maybe, but not racism.

    That’s not what you said:

    Fuck you for thinking so little of voters who happen to be black; that we are swayed by nothing more than coded racial demogogery and clever speech.

    Here’s another clue asswipe: Issues matter to us too. The economy, the war, torture & human rights, the integrity of the constitution, the separation of powers, the USSC.

    If you get one thing through that thick skull of yours in this admittedly short lifetime, let it be this fact:

    First and foremost, all of these things matter to me. Not a black man, but an American.

    You accused me of racism. Fuck you

  88. 88.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    So the disputed delegates should STFU until Obama is the nominee and then kiss his ass?

    There’s nothing disputed about them. As far as the convention in Denver is concerned, neither Florida nor Michigan has any recognized pledged delegates. Period. And they needn’t kiss his ass, and I never suggested they should. I just said that the nominee would seat them. They can do as they please once they get on the floor, but I hear security is pretty tight at these things.

    How will the voters of Florida and Michigan who voted for Hillary feel about that? Will they be hoodwinked and bamboozled into voting for Obama in November?

    The voters of Florida and Michigan who voted for Hillary in the meaningless state presidential primaries will have the exact same choice as anyone who voted for Hillary in a state presidential primary. They can accept that their nominee was not chosen and vote for Obama on policy anyway, they can stay home in bitter frustration and accept the outcome forthwith, or they can vote for John McCain for reasons passing understanding. On top of all that they can lobby their local representatives to ensure that their voices are heard in the next Democratic primary.

  89. 89.

    w vincentz

    March 12, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    JJ,
    Wow!
    I like ya! Keep talkin’!

  90. 90.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Fuck you for assuming because I am white that I am racist.

    You and Geraldine should go have a pity party. “Why can’t we say stupid offensive shit without people calling us on it? Reverse racism! Reverse racism!”

  91. 91.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    There are no delegates from MI and FL. There is only Hillary, who agreed that there would be no delegates from MI and FL, who is now turning her back on that agreement. Political opportunism, nothing more.

    There are delegates, the DNC is saying they will not be seated.

    Hillary agreed she would not campaign in either state and kept that agreement. She never agreed there would be no delegates. That was the DNC rules committee’s decision.

    The DNC says that the delegates will be seated if the states find another way to select them. One solution is a re-vote. Hillary has agreed. So far Obama has not.

  92. 92.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    You and Geraldine should go have a pity party. “Why can’t we say stupid offensive shit without people calling us on it? Reverse racism! Reverse racism!”

    Fuck you too

  93. 93.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    You accused me of racism. Fuck you

    FWIW, I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but I also consider you a racist.

  94. 94.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    The DNC says that the delegates will be seated if the states find another way to select them. One solution is a re-vote. Hillary has agreed. So far Obama has not.

    I find it hard to believe that Hillary has agreed to a re-vote since no such re-vote has been proposed by either state parties. By the same token, Obama has rejected no such re-vote, lacking such a re-vote to reject.

    So far this has mustered up a whole lot of posturing and one big question: Who the fuck wants to pay for a re-vote that shouldn’t need to occur in the first place?

  95. 95.

    srv

    March 12, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Nevertheless, you know why my mother said to me after South Carolina?

    “The Clinton’s have shown me their true colors”

    And in those eight words, I knew it was over for the Clintons. If you are a Democrat, when 70 year old black ladies turn on you, you are finished.

    …

    that we are swayed by nothing more than coded racial demogogery and clever speech.

    Clearly, your mother was swayed by Hillary’s stance on the issues.

  96. 96.

    w vincentz

    March 12, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    myiqx2,
    Could you please include me?
    You obvious intellect underwhelms me.

  97. 97.

    mrmobi

    March 12, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    The voters of Florida and Michigan who voted for Hillary in the meaningless state presidential primaries will have the exact same choice as anyone who voted for Hillary in a state presidential primary. They can accept that their nominee was not chosen and vote for Obama on policy anyway, they can stay home in bitter frustration and accept the outcome forthwith, or they can vote for John McCain for reasons passing understanding. On top of all that they can lobby their local representatives to ensure that their voices are heard in the next Democratic primary.

    Fountainhead, you’re barking up the wrong tree trying to convince low-IQ about anything so basic as fairness.

    I, for one, don’t understand why Obama is not against a re-do for Michigan and Florida. If voters from those states feel disenfranchised, they should take it up with their party leaders and other elected representatives.

    Everyone knew going in that these delegates would not be seated, Hillary included.

    A re-do means the Democratic party will have no control over future Democratic primary elections. See Terry McAuliffe back in 2004. Hint: he didn’t not give an inch on states changing their primary election dates.

    No, low-IQ and the Clinton Campaign simply can’t accept playing by the rules. Winning is everything, whatever the cost.

  98. 98.

    John S.

    March 12, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    They want to seat them as-is based on the two primaries.

    Which Howard Dean has already rejected as an option.

    Back to the drawing board…

  99. 99.

    mrmobi

    March 12, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Hint: he didn’t not give an inch on states changing their primary election dates.

    That should be “didn’t give an inch.”

  100. 100.

    Snail

    March 12, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    FWIW, I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but I also consider you a racist.

    (snort)

  101. 101.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Fuck you too

    Ah, I made the cut for the myiq2 Fuck You club. I feel special.

  102. 102.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    mrmobi: I understand that I’m likely to fall on deaf ears, but forming the arguments as coherently as I can is a fun challenge, so you might say I do it as much for myself as for them.

    In other news, I think this pithy comment lifted from Hillaryis44.com pretty much embodies just how far gone many of her die-hard supporters are:

    Obama won’t have Clinton Rules to use in PA and his arrogant treatment of Geraldine Ferraro is an insult to this great lady. To tar this women with the letter Racist on her because she opined that Obama is not being vetted like everybody else in the history of this country does has merit.

  103. 103.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Fuck you too

    Ah, I made the cut for the myiq2 Fuck You club. I feel special.

  104. 104.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Ah, I made the cut for the myiq2 Fuck You club. I feel special.

    You should feel special. As in “Captain of the short-bus” special.

  105. 105.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    There are delegates, the DNC is saying they will not be seated.

    Hillary agreed she would not campaign in either state and kept that agreement. She never agreed there would be no delegates. That was the DNC rules committee’s decision.

    The DNC says that the delegates will be seated if the states find another way to select them. One solution is a re-vote. Hillary has agreed. So far Obama has not.

  106. 106.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    I said nothing about the effectiveness of his message, only it’s intent.

    Nice plea.

    Which brings me back to your ‘IOW – “Don’t trust ‘Whitey.’”’ statement.

    You remain full of it.

    The fact that you think the whole “hoodwinked and bamboozled” theme is exclusive to the conflict between blacks and whites says more about you than it does about Barak Obama.

    You could have just as easily (and only slightly less ridiculously) claimed Obama’s intent was IOW – “Don’t trust ‘The Clintons.’” and the statement would have been accurate.

    And let’s recall, these words – “Don’t Trust Whitey” were not actually uttered by Obama, but are instead myiq’s very own interpretation of what Obama intended to say to black audiences in a speech.

    And where does myiq’s interpretaion lead us?

    Right to “race”, as it were.

    So when you play dumb (or coy), with shit like this.

    You accused me of racism.

    Color me (pun intended) unmoved.

    What I accused you of being is more accurately defined as an “asshole”. But if that’s what you want to think. Fine.

    Guess what?

    Your talking points still suck.

    You cry foul because you think I am calling you a racist, when it is you who in fact have ascribed racism to Obama on the thinnest of supporting evidence.

    What color is the sky in your world?

    Asshole. Yeah, I think that fits you.

  107. 107.

    cleek

    March 12, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    To tar this women with the letter Racist on her because she opined that Obama is not being vetted like everybody else in the history of this country does has merit.

    yeah… it’s like everybody’ desirous that Obama do well.

  108. 108.

    Snail

    March 12, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    It looks like myiq has cashed in his gift certificate good for one brutal beating.

  109. 109.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    There are delegates, the DNC is saying they will not be seated.

    Hillary agreed she would not campaign in either state and kept that agreement. She never agreed there would be no delegates. That was the DNC rules committee’s decision.

    The DNC says that the delegates will be seated if the states find another way to select them. One solution is a re-vote. Hillary has agreed. So far Obama has not

    .
    Okay, let me try this again. My 12:45 comment didn’t seem to work right.
    I am a Florida voter – and a registered independent – who was told that my vote would not count in the Democrat primary. Therefore, I did not bother changing my party affiliation to Dem since I was told – once again – that it wouldn’t count. I know at least four people in the same situation. I also know a few registered Dems (like my fiance) that didn’t bother taking part in what was being considered an opinion poll.
    Do I feel disenfranchised? Not really. I just think that the DNC and the Florida Democrat Party are a bunch of whiny politicians. Oh well. I would feel more “disenfranchised” if they changed their minds after the fact and gave the votes to Clagina and that somehow affected Barack’s dozen state, 800000 vote, 150 delegate lead. That might do it.

  110. 110.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    One point to be made. Obama is half white and from reading his books I know that he adored his white mother and grandparents – you know, that ones that raised him.
    As a white guy, I don’t feel an ounce of racism coming from Obama. I’m sure millions would agree with me.
    I remember when Obama was low in the polls and some in the black community that just loved the Clintons talked about how he wasn’t “black enough”. He overcame that. The Clinton’s had the ball and they dropped it. Starting primarily with South Carolina. Deal with it.

  111. 111.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    You should feel special. As in “Captain of the short-bus” special.

    Tell us more about your fascinating Malcolm X>Farrakhan>Obama theories. We functionally retarded folks just can’t get enough of that.

  112. 112.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    One point to be made. Obama is half white…

    Well, Hillary, not to be outdone, has announced she is only half-woman.

    the Clintons talked about how he wasn’t “black enough”.

    something similar about not woman enough…

    He overcame that.

    I think you mean he transcended that.

  113. 113.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Tell us more about your fascinating Malcolm X>Farrakhan>Obama theories. We functionally retarded folks just can’t get enough of that.

    Denzel is the key.

    And Malcolm-Jamal Warner. He is the second of The Three Malcolms.

  114. 114.

    cleek

    March 12, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    He is the second of The Three Malcolms.

    the Malcom In The Middle, if you will.

  115. 115.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    the Malcom In The Middle, if you will.

    I give you my vote for PoTD.

  116. 116.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    I think you mean he transcended that.

    No, he overcame it. Ralph Emerson transcended things.
    He OVERCAME Hillary’s name recognition, party power, cronies, wealth, etc etc etc…and he had more than just a victory party planned for February 6th and after.

  117. 117.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    No, he overcame it. Ralph Emerson transcended things.

    You must be new here.

  118. 118.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    For Neal.

  119. 119.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    You must be new here.

    No. I’ve been lurking around these parts for a little while now. I don’t post often. It’s a slow day at the office.
    I know all about the MUP transcending things. I just find it silly. I don’t claim Barack Obama to have transcended anything.
    I read that post the first time around.

  120. 120.

    shera

    March 12, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Myiq, can I get a “fuck you” too? I would be honored.

    Please?

  121. 121.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    FWIW, I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but I also consider you a racist.

    You are having way too much fun with this!

  122. 122.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Oh, and Billy K, was that an elaborate “Fuck You”?

    Just trying to keep score with this thread.

  123. 123.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Neal Says:
    Oh, and Billy K, was that an elaborate “Fuck You”?

    Just trying to keep score with this thread

    .

    Nah. I’ve just always hated the “Obama has transcended” thing. I like to poke at things I hate. So any mention of the word “transcend,” and I have to talk about Obama’s transcending ways. I guess it’s a way of taking the piss out of a phrase.

    Not any kind of “fuck you” to you, though I’m surprised you don’t recall the constant transcending the MUP was accused of around here in the early days of Obamamania. “You must be new here” is just kind of a standard internet answer.

  124. 124.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Oh, and Billy K, was that an elaborate “Fuck You”?

    No, we keep our “Fuck You!”s short and to the point around here. Occasionally a “Go Fuck Yourself” is acceptable if you feel the need to stretch out a little.

    Don’t even think about a “Go fuck yourself, you fucking fuckhead.” We frown on lily-gilding.

  125. 125.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Don’t even think about a “Go fuck yourself, you fucking fuckhead.” We frown on lily-gilding.

    Is the following allowed:

    Fuck you! :-)

    I want to make sure I understand the rules.

  126. 126.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Not any kind of “fuck you” to you, though I’m surprised you don’t recall the constant transcending the MUP was accused of around here in the early days of Obamamania.

    No, I remember it very well. I also thought it was silly. Some stupid pundit uses it and they all rush to say the same thing like a bunch of lemmings. I just avoid saying it myself when trying to make a semi serious point.
    Now that I’m done doing that…

    …and seeing as how Hillary is a white lady and this is a race thread…

    …I’m going to say Obama transcends white people.

  127. 127.

    Xenos

    March 12, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Question for the day-

    Is the critical issue here that of race and class (ie, middle class white women resenting Obama) or is it a matter of generations (baby boomers seriously pissed of that after just 15 years they are being left in the dust by the Obama phenomonon).

    As a post-boomer, I can’t see how Obama and his movement fail to show proper respect for the elder generations. Furthermore has not been the one to inject race in this debate. I do see some very pissy people who seem to resent Obama for failing to wait his turn to run for office.

    Boomer vs Post-Boomer issues usually make for good flame wars, in any case.

  128. 128.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    As a post-boomer, I can’t see how Obama and his movement fail to show proper respect for the elder generations. Furthermore has not been the one to inject race in this debate. I do see some very pissy people who seem to resent Obama for failing to wait his turn to run for office.

    As a Boomer-hater, I think anything that even comes close to overshadowing them is a threat. I don’t think they give two shits about respect. They just don’t want to give up the reins. This is the generation that made plastic surgery and other age-inhibitors a part of daily life.

  129. 129.

    dslak

    March 12, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I don’t think they give two shits about respect. They just don’t want to give up the reins.

    Although I won’t claim this applies more generally, it does seem to be like this in academia.

    From what I understand, the Boomers really wanted mandatory retirements for academic staff (out of fairness, of course!), back when they were the ones trying to get jobs.
    Now that it’s all Boomers reaching retirement age, guess who opposes mandatory retirement as unfair?

  130. 130.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    This is the generation that made plastic surgery and other age-inhibitors a part of daily life.

    It’s also the generation responsible for starting movements for racial, gender, and sexual orientation equality. It’s also the generation that stopped a war.

    What has your generation done that’s so great?

  131. 131.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    It’s also the generation responsible for starting movements for racial, gender, and sexual orientation equality. It’s also the generation that stopped a war.

    What? Are we talking about the 1860s? Them crazy abolitionists?
    Or Susan B Anthony? She was a baby boomer?
    I’m confused.

  132. 132.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    It’s also the generation responsible for starting movements for racial, gender, and sexual orientation equality. It’s also the generation that stopped a war.

    What? Are we talking about the 1860s? Them crazy abolitionists?
    Or Susan B Anthony? She was a baby boomer?
    I’m confused.

  133. 133.

    Martin

    March 12, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    There are delegates, the DNC is saying they will not be seated.

    Hillary agreed she would not campaign in either state and kept that agreement. She never agreed there would be no delegates. That was the DNC rules committee’s decision.

    The DNC says that the delegates will be seated if the states find another way to select them. One solution is a re-vote. Hillary has agreed. So far Obama has not.

    BTW, all of the rules are the DNC rules committee’s decision. If Hillary doesn’t think the delegate seating is fair, why doesn’t she just attack the apportionment of delegates as well? Maybe New York deserves 100 more delegates on account of it being a reliable blue state? Why is that rule any more or less valid than the Florida/Michigan one? And before you reply too quickly, Delaware had their delegates stripped a few elections ago for the same infraction, so there’s precedent for it being a proper rule.

    Whether Clinton agreed or not, she accepted that they wouldn’t be counted per a radio interview in NH last October.

    Obama hasn’t ruled out a revote, he just raised concerns about a mail-in. Clinton rejected a caucus but seems okay with the other options. But Florida has given up on a revote anyway. Given that Pelosi is chair of the convention and seems a bit pissed at Clinton over the assertion that McCain is more qualified than Obama, I think people ought to just give up on any leniency toward Clinton on the delegate issue.

  134. 134.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    What has your generation done that’s so great?

    Speaking only for Gen-Xers here, Boomers represent the nadir of generational narcissism.

    My Generation is no great shakes, but at least we aren’t annoying. :)

    And not to be a stickler, but the Generations that actually started the movements for racial and gender equality in this country FAR predate the Baby Boomers.

  135. 135.

    Martin

    March 12, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Damn, I was duped into replying to miq by pulling his quote from Neil. Greasemonkey has failed me.

  136. 136.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    I’m confused.

    Find yourself a good history book. That should take care of it.

    And not to be a stickler, but the Generations that actually started the movements for racial and gender equality in this country FAR predate the Baby Boomers.

    Agreed. Poor choice of wording on my part.

    And yes, my generation has gotten incredibly annoying. But at least we have fond memories of when we made a positive social contribution.

  137. 137.

    John S.

    March 12, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Speaking only for Gen-Xers here, Boomers represent the nadir of generational narcissism.

    Speaking as a fellow Gen-Xer, I second that.

    I tire of Boomers waxing poetic about themselves. IMHO, they are more accurately summed up by a line from the movie SLC Punk!, where the protagonist’s father (after having this very argument) declares:

    I didn’t sell out — I bought in!

  138. 138.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    But at least we have fond memories of when we made a positive social contribution.

    I just think it’s fascinating to watch each generation slowly turn into that which it abhorred about previous generations.

    For example, the Boomers (in a stereotypical sense) were all against things like entrenched power structures and dynastic party politics until they got hold of the reigns.

    Now, we get to watch in horror and disappointment as an archetypical boomer (Hillary) grasps and claws to maintain that very system.

    It’s all too sad.

  139. 139.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    It’s also the generation responsible for starting movements for racial, gender, and sexual orientation equality. It’s also the generation that stopped a war.

    What has your generation done that’s so great?

    I was going to say this:

    And not to be a stickler, but the Generations that actually started the movements for racial and gender equality in this country FAR predate the Baby Boomers.

    Also, Boomers need to get over themselves. Their habit of taking credit for things they had little-to-no effect on is annoying at the very least.

    (mumble mumble…biggest hypocrites ever… mumble mumble..)

  140. 140.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Find yourself a good history book. That should take care of it.

    Sojourner, as someone who absolutely loves history and reads about it obsessively…I’d be glad to debate this one. In fact, I used two historical items to semi-refute your point and you conveniently did not quote that part of my comment. Lovely.

  141. 141.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    As a Gen Y Guy, this is a touchy subject I like to call, “The Thing My Father and I Fight About Every Time We Talk.”

    The Boomers are a problem. Pure and simple. They had every opportunity to recognize and do something about the fact that the economic forces they wield would crush Social Security under their weight and make Universal Healthcare neigh on impossible to achieve until long after they were dead and gone. And that doesn’t begin to touch on the disproportionate weight they have on our social agenda. Every generation struggles with their progenitors, this is nothing new. What IS new to modern society is the progenitive generation outnumbering their offspring by such numbers and for such a long period. Age and accident generally thin the numbers to the point where the progressive mindset of the younger generation is allowed to be brought to fruition by sheer force of will. I think the recent political and social climate is evidence that this is no longer the case.

    Like I said, the Boomers are a problem, as a bloc.

  142. 142.

    Neal

    March 12, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Damn, I was duped into replying to miq by pulling his quote from Neil. Greasemonkey has failed me.

    Sorry. My internet has been fucking up all day…so please excuse the half quotes and double posts. I am aware.

  143. 143.

    TTT

    March 12, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    The narcissism and greed of the Boomer generation has ruined so much else about America, it makes sense it would get in the way of the ’08 election also.

    Geraldine Ferraro is a nobody. Her campaign lost 49 states a lifetime ago, and since then she has done absolutely nothing. She emerges now from her hibernation of irrelevance to try to shoot down a genuine people-powered, issues-based diverse coalition for progress. Maybe she can be Nader’s VP.

    Funniest part: her claim that Obama shouldn’t piss her off because if he’s the nominee he’ll need her as a fundraiser. Dearie, while I’m sure you’re the toast of the assisted-living facility’s Bingo night, out here where people actually have to work for a living Barack Obama has over one million donors to his campaign. He can get along fine without you; goodness knows, America has for 25 years.

  144. 144.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Also, Boomers need to get over themselves. Their habit of taking credit for things they had little-to-no effect on is annoying at the very least.

    I’m not going to get into a debate over this. I have too much else going on today.

    All I will say is that a lot of the attitudes you folks take for granted did not exist when I joined the work force. The women I work with are confident that they will be treated as part of the team and that they have options when it comes to fighting bad behavior like sexual harassment (the real thing – the kind that forced some women to leave the company). This was not the case when for a good chunk of my career.

    So if you want to believe that the boomers have done nothing for anyone else, have at it.

    But I’m still waiting to hear about your generations’ many accomplishments.

  145. 145.

    Martin

    March 12, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    TTT misses the point of Ferraro. From one of the abandoned threads I wrote:

    But the new strategy here for Clinton is clear. This is the occupation gambit played in politics. Just as Bush’s invasion of Iraq forced even opponents of the war to provide support for the effort since the invasion couldn’t be undone, Clinton is poisoning the general election with the hope that now that the election is about race filling in for Obama’s lack of qualification it will force the party to support her since that race card can’t be undone (I’m not sure this can be undone or not). It’s extremely deliberate given the timing as it allowed the Mississippi vote to be used as the best possible evidence that it is true (though it isn’t true if you look at the larger whole). This becomes an irreversible process. Clinton is forcing the party to make a choice – back Obama on principle and lose or back me in disgust but win.

    Clinton/Ferraro don’t care if you think they are racists or irrelevant. If they succeed at convincing Democrats that Obama can’t win because voters in the general will see Obama as a product of social affirmative action (a seed they planted), then they know Dems will go to Clinton out of sheer practicality. It’s like the backup quarterback kneecapping the starter in practice the day before the Superbowl and asking the coach rhetorically “So what are you going to do now?”

  146. 146.

    Dork

    March 12, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    FWIW, I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but I also consider you a racist.

    I think NASCAR fans are racist. Always worrying and talking shit about races. “Daytona rules! The Brickyard 500 sucks!”. Every week, they’re angry again at another race.

  147. 147.

    Bey

    March 12, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    My Generation is no great shakes, but at least we aren’t annoying.

    Oh, yes you are.

    I wasn’t aware that the Clinton/Obama contest is breaking down along generational lines. As a boomer woman voting for Obama, I clearly missed the memo.

  148. 148.

    dslak

    March 12, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    According to Hillary, LBJ was responsible for all that good stuff in the ’60s, and he was no Boomer.

  149. 149.

    Bey

    March 12, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    My Generation is no great shakes, but at least we aren’t annoying.

    Oh, yes you are.

    I wasn’t aware that the Clinton/Obama contest is breaking down along generational lines. As a boomer woman voting for Obama, I clearly missed the memo.

  150. 150.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Is the critical issue here that of race and class (ie, middle class white women resenting Obama) or is it a matter of generations (baby boomers seriously pissed of that after just 15 years they are being left in the dust by the Obama phenomonon).

    Gen X must suffer from the drugs their parents did at Woodstock.

    Obama is a Baby Boomer!

  151. 151.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    But I’m still waiting to hear about your generations’ many accomplishments.

    Hahahaha.

    Hard to have accomplishments when your society is too busy talking about Gay marriage and the threat of radical Islam to deal with it’s real problems.

    Hard to have accomplishments when the economy is literally groaning under the weight of the largest generation in history who saved nothing and instead spent and invested on or in whatever they could.

    Hard to have accomplishments when there’s just no damn room in the workforce because you aren’t retiring/dying fast enough.

    Hard to have accomplishments when we’re brought up in an age of anti-education and a public school system that was gutted by government failures long before we got here.

    Hard to have accomplishments when more than 50% of us were brought up in broken/fractured/dysfunctional homes.

    Hard to have accomplishments when we’re busy trying to afford the housing and healthcare we need which is unattainable because of the number of you receiving the lionshare of it and driving up insurance costs.

    Don’t look down on us and say, “Make something of yourselves!” while you still have your boot on the small of our back. I have no love for the lazy and incompetent members of my generation, but I see plenty of my generation struggling against forces brought to bear on them by the disregard of your generation for mine.

  152. 152.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Hard to have accomplishments

    Call Whine-1-1 and they’ll send you a WAHmbulance.

  153. 153.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Obama is a Baby Boomer!

    Correct, and one who has had the good sense to realize that there is a generation war being fought, perhaps subtly now, throughout America. He’s on the younger end of the Baby Boomer scale and he sees that the front half of his generation has had it’s opportunity to improve our standing in the world and while it has accomplished much on one hand, it has dug its heels in and refuses to go one step further on the other. Obama sees that the only way to effect a better life for Americans is to do so with the support of the Americans that still think a better life is out there for them, and that is not the Boomers. Sorry.

  154. 154.

    Sasha

    March 12, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Gen X must suffer from the drugs their parents did at Woodstock.

    Obama is a Baby Boomer!

    The political philosophy that Obama follows would probably be best described as “post-Boomer.”

    Whether he himself is a Boomer is something else. The beginning/end of a “generation” is debatable. By some metrics, he was born on the very tail end of the Baby Boom; by others, he was born on the very beginning of Gen X. Both generations wouldn’t be wrong to claim him as their own.

    Apropos considering his reputation as the Magical Unity Pony. He transcends generations.

  155. 155.

    TheFountainHead

    March 12, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Call Whine-1-1 and they’ll send you a WAHmbulance.

    Cute. And exactly what I expected from you.

  156. 156.

    Bey

    March 12, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Don’t look down on us and say, “Make something of yourselves!” while you still have your boot on the small of our back.

    Oh please. You are hardly being opressed by the boomers. I’m sure you’d start whippin’ out those accomplishments if we would only hurry up and die already. /snort

    In other news: Geraldine has stepped down.

  157. 157.

    Gilmore

    March 12, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Some people believe Malcolm X had moved away from racism before he died

    Dude, what is this shit. Unless ‘some people’ includes, you know, Malcolm X, you’re just being a prick or talking out of your ass. Read the autobiography. Then again you have twice my IQ, so what do I know?

  158. 158.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Don’t look down on us and say, “Make something of yourselves!” while you still have your boot on the small of our back.

    Of course. Because it was the Boomers who elected Bush.

    Never heard a boomer make that claim!!!

  159. 159.

    Martin

    March 12, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Sweet! Old and Busted vs New Hotness wars.

    I’m 39. What camp do I belong in?

  160. 160.

    jj

    March 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Oh, yes you are.

    Dear Sensitive BJers,

    My tongue is only slightly in cheek as I write this.

    Bey,

    Do some research. Cruise the intertrons, take an informal poll amongst aquaintances, go the Onion, whatever.

    I will bet you a $5 gift certificate to Jack ‘n the Box (or the similarly undelicious fast food chain of your choosing) that Boomers will prevail, by a large margin, in any contest of ‘most annoying living generation’.

    So if you want to believe that the boomers have done nothing for anyone else, have at it.

    It’s not that at all. We just don’t buy the whole “we started racial and gender equality” thing. Not even close.

    Besides compared to the Silent Generation (1921-1941), Boomers come across as whiny, self absorbed layabouts.

    Barak Obama may technically be a Boomer but to me, his message embodies a pan-generational sense of shared responsibility to something larger than the individual (something Boomers are not exactly known for).

    Kind of like Hillary’s “It takes a village” meme – one which has since transmogrified into a sort of twisted “Army of One” approach that is somewhat more off-putting.

    Just my .02

  161. 161.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    The political philosophy that Obama follows would probably be best described as “post-Boomer.”

    As if “Boomer” was a political philosophy.

    Whether he himself is a Boomer is something else. The beginning/end of a “generation” is debatable. By some metrics, he was born on the very tail end of the Baby Boom; by others, he was born on the very beginning of Gen X. Both generations wouldn’t be wrong to claim him as their own.

    The “Goldberg Principle” – You can prove any thesis to be true if you make up your own definitions of words.

    I dare you to accuse me of plagiarism.

  162. 162.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    What TheFountainHead said. Boomers had everything handed to them and fucked it all up, betraying their core principles the whole way.

    Zero respect.

  163. 163.

    Bey

    March 12, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Sweet! Old and Busted vs New Hotness wars.

    I’m 39. What camp do I belong in?

    I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but you’re in the My-ass-is-falling-down, my-hair-is-falling-out, I-can’t-remember-where-I-put-the-car-keys camp. It’s a bad camp.

    But after 10 years you get to graduate to the Old and Busted camp where your ass is still falling, but you say screw it and go out to party anyway.

  164. 164.

    Billy K

    March 12, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    I’m 39. What camp do I belong in?

    You’re with me – stuck in the middle. But if you don’t have a simmering anger towards boomers, you haven’t been invested in the job market or politics much the last 20 years.

  165. 165.

    Bey

    March 12, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    JJ, I hope you are savoring these moments. Someday you’re going to be in the most annoying evar! group.

    It helps to have a sense of humor when it happens. :D

  166. 166.

    Gilmore

    March 12, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Sorry, I posted that before I saw JJ’s epic sand-filled-garden-hose beatdown. Didn’t mean to gild the lily there.

  167. 167.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    It helps to have a sense of humor when it happens.

    I can’t wait until I’m old enough to retire. Then I can vote to increase the Social Security payroll taxes on the young snots who will be supporting me.

    They’ll be able to afford it, they’ll have all those high-paying jobs we have now.

  168. 168.

    dslak

    March 12, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Boomers will only prove to be the most annoying because they were the most numerous.

  169. 169.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    March 12, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Great; from racism to generationism. Just when you think things couldn’t get any sillier.

    The beginning/end of a “generation” is debatable. By some metrics, he was born on the very tail end of the Baby Boom; by others, he was born on the very beginning of Gen X. Both generations wouldn’t be wrong to claim him as their own.

    Some years ago, I read about demographers who had created a separate category (variably called Wedgies, Gappers, or Tweeners — I prefer Wedgie myself) of those people who come between the Boomers and Xers and don’t really fit either category. I always phrased it as “too young for tie-dye, too old for tattoos.” Basically it’s those of us who were in high school when MTV went live.

    ‘Sides, he’s not self-congratulatory enough to be a true Boomer. :p~~~

  170. 170.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Barak Obama may technically be a Boomer but to me, his message embodies a pan-generational sense of shared responsibility to something larger than the individual (something Boomers are not exactly known for).

    Hmmmm?

    State Sen. Tupac Hunter, D-Detroit, said a mail-in caucus “is clearly the wrong path. “We don’t like it one bit,” Hunter said. “It disenfranchises people who need to participate and there are many questions with regard to security.”

    Hunter said the Obama campaign will accept nothing but a 50-50 split of Michigan delegates between Clinton and Obama, who removed his name from the January ballot here in protest of the early date.

    The SAME Barack Obama who is co-sponsor of the Senate version of this bill, “The Universal Right To Vote By Mail Act”, which declares that NOT ALLOWING mail in voting in every state (28 do through absentee balloting) disenfranchises voters, now opposes a mail in revote. I have heard of chutzpah, but this one takes the cake.

    Sounds like typical me! me! me! Boomer bullshit to me.

  171. 171.

    Sasha

    March 12, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    The political philosophy that Obama follows would probably be best described as “post-Boomer.”

    As if “Boomer” was a political philosophy.

    Boomer isn’t a political philosophy per se, but I’m sure you would agree that, simply as a matter of generational culture, Boomers tend to approach and answer political questions and situations in a different manner than those of earlier or later generations. This is what I meant.

    Whether he himself is a Boomer is something else. The beginning/end of a “generation” is debatable. By some metrics, he was born on the very tail end of the Baby Boom; by others, he was born on the very beginning of Gen X. Both generations wouldn’t be wrong to claim him as their own.

    The “Goldberg Principle” – You can prove any thesis to be true if you make up your own definitions of words.

    Obama was born in 1961. Wikipedia notes that though most consider the Boom to have ended in 1964, there are many reasoned arguments placing the end date sooner. I would consider Obama a post-Boom/pre-Gen X child — what is apparently called Generation Jones (again, courtesy of Wikipedia).

    I dare you to accuse me of plagiarism.

    For what? Borrowing a witticism in an attempt to refute a point? You are being way too defensive.

  172. 172.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Is the following allowed:

    Fuck you! :-)

    I want to make sure I understand the rules.

    Sorry, but I have to dock major points for the smiley. We must strive to be earnest and forthright with our Fuck Yous.

    Whether he himself is a Boomer is something else. The beginning/end of a “generation” is debatable. By some metrics, he was born on the very tail end of the Baby Boom; by others, he was born on the very beginning of Gen X. Both generations wouldn’t be wrong to claim him as their own.

    The “Goldberg Principle” – You can prove any thesis to be true if you make up your own definitions of words.

    Teh Wiki:

    There is some disagreement as to the exact beginning and end dates of the baby boom, but the range most commonly accepted is as starting in 1946 and ending in 1964. The problem with this definition is that this period may be too long for a cultural generation, even though it covers a time of increased births.

    -snip-

    While 1945-1955 reflect the post-World War II demographic boom in births, there is a growing consensus among generational experts that two distinct cultural generations occupy these years. The conceptualization that has gained the most public acceptance is that of a 1942-1953 Baby Boom Generation, followed by a 1954-1965 Generation Jones. Boomers and Jonesers had dramatically different formative experiences which gave rise to dramatically different collective personalities.

    Shorter Wiki: myiq2 is wrong. Again.

  173. 173.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Borrowing a witticism in an attempt to refute a point?

    Who exactly did I borrow it from?

  174. 174.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Boomer isn’t a political philosophy per se, but I’m sure you would agree that, simply as a matter of generational culture, Boomers tend to approach and answer political questions and situations in a different manner than those of earlier or later generations.

    No, I don’t agree. You’re wrong again.

  175. 175.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Boomer isn’t a political philosophy per se, but I’m sure you would agree that, simply as a matter of generational culture, Boomers tend to approach and answer political questions and situations in a different manner than those of earlier or later generations.

    No, I don’t agree. You’re wrong again.

    Next on the Myiq2 Show: Idiots Who Think the Sky is Blue, and Why I Hate Them.

  176. 176.

    Sasha

    March 12, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Borrowing a witticism in an attempt to refute a point?

    Who exactly did I borrow it from?

    I believe our esteemed host coined the phrase (IIRC). Otherwise, I have no idea why you would think that I would think you’re plagerizing someone. I never suggested it in any of my posts.

  177. 177.

    Sasha

    March 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Boomer isn’t a political philosophy per se, but I’m sure you would agree that, simply as a matter of generational culture, Boomers tend to approach and answer political questions and situations in a different manner than those of earlier or later generations.

    No, I don’t agree. You’re wrong again.

    So you don’t believe that the political approach of George Bush Sr. vs. George Bush Jr. has anything to do with the generation each Bush happened to belong to?

    [shrug]

  178. 178.

    myiq2xu

    March 12, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    I believe our esteemed host coined the phrase

    No, he did not.

  179. 179.

    srv

    March 12, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    pan-generational sense of shared responsibility to something larger than the individual

    Ah, I’m going to start using pan-dimensional now.

  180. 180.

    srv

    March 12, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    I’m 39. What camp do I belong in?

    The swing vote when it comes to passing euthenasia legislation and unplugging the baby boomers.

  181. 181.

    Wilfred

    March 12, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    It’s like the backup quarterback kneecapping the starter in practice the day before the Superbowl and asking the coach rhetorically “So what are you going to do now?

    Ram a lead pipe up his ass and give the ball to someone else.

  182. 182.

    Sojourner

    March 12, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Sorry, but I have to dock major points for the smiley. We must strive to be earnest and forthright with our Fuck Yous.

    Thanks, tBone, for not letting me down.

    And thank you even more for making me laugh… ALOT.

    In the midst of stupidity without end on the political front, it is still possible to find laughter.

    Now if we can only get on with electing Obama.

  183. 183.

    Calouste

    March 12, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    The Boomers are disappointed with themselves that from all those thought they had at Woodstock about how they were going to change the world, they ended up with giving it Clinton I and Bush II. They are desparate to have one more shot to redeem themselves and get back their youthful ideas with Clinton II, only to find out that they have turned into what they despised in their youth and the younger generation is carrying the flame of changing the world in Obama.

  184. 184.

    srv

    March 12, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    ALOT

    Two words, weedhoppa.

  185. 185.

    Xenos

    March 12, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    They are desparate to have one more shot to redeem themselves and get back their youthful ideas with Clinton II, only to find out that they have turned into what they despised in their youth and the younger generation is carrying the flame of changing the world in Obama.

    They have always been what they claimed to despise, except for a small subgroup of honest, brave, and principled boomers who have made a tremendous difference.

    As for ‘Xers (and jonesers, to a lesser degree), we can’t sell out because we have never had the chance to buy in. I suppose that makes us a pissy bunch. It has also made Xers much more generous to the Yers… most Xers I know make a real attempt to hold the ladder for following generations rather than to pull it up with them.

  186. 186.

    Chuck Butcher

    March 12, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    Let’s see now, what Obama said was the he admired OR’s vote by mail but he doubted FL’s ability to get it up and running since they do no such thing. I live in OR and think everybody should VBM. You also are an idiot if you think doing it clearly and transparently is something FL could manage in a matter of weeks. I am real confident of our votes as are almost all Oregonians, we also have a small population and we built the system with foreknowledge we were doing it.

    I’ll be goddamed if myiq2xboxofrocks gets to hijack my language for his racist code. I live in one of the most WHITE places in this country and I get to hear hoodwinked on a fairly regular basis. Hoodwinked and bamboozled were both pretty common currency in Ohio and surrounding states in my younger years. Both have the sort of rolling syllables popular within the preaching specialties. Ya stupid fuck, the Chinese-Americans outnumber blacks here and there are very few Chinese-Americans here and it is white people saying hoodwinked and they did not get it from Malcolm X. You’re running out of Hillary shit to run at that rate.

    Here’s the short version, she is not to blame ever, somebody else is to blame always, somebody else is doing it, she deserves to be president – her call. We don’t need this damn election a coronation will do fine.

  187. 187.

    tBone

    March 12, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    In the midst of stupidity without end on the political front, it is still possible to find laughter.

    True, but I think I’m going to have to stock up on nitrous oxide if this keeps up much longer.

  188. 188.

    Beej

    March 13, 2008 at 1:37 am

    Oh good grief! The Boomers, the Gen Xers, the Gen Yers are not some separate monolithic forces who collectively plan and execulte self-interested political strategies. I’m a Boomer, one of the earliest of that generation. Too many of you who are younger have apparently swallowed whole the Boomer myths. You know the ones: we single-handedly ended segregation, created gender equality, ventured into space, etc. What we actually did was what every other generation has done and will continue to do for the rest of time-we did what seemed best, most fun, most interesting, most noble at the time. Some of us were racists. Some of us were communists. Some of us were violent. Some of us were peaceniks. We are liberal, conservative, and everything in between and WE ALWAYS WERE. It’s just that some of us made a whole lot of noise.

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