Aside from the fact that I am viewing it through a Percocet induced stupor and several times have wondered aloud why John Adams refuses to drink Merlot, the show is actually quite entertaining.
It would be interesting to see if any historians have viewed the show and given their opinion of how historically “accurate” this version of history is, because from what I have seen, John Adams as depicted in the miniseries would be promptly swiftboated and due for a serious counter-top inspection by the real patriots in our midst, the keyboard commandoes.
Alabama Blue Dot
I have been looking forward to this show for weeks, and I wasn’t disappointed. I am regrettably under-informed about the birth of our nation (I was much more interested in Central and South America). Now I feel I need to know more in light of how our constitution and way of life has been shredded by the current administration. The program so far has shown that it was a slow slog to independence, that there were plenty of people who were terrified, and that the true patriots picked up and did something in spite of their fear. They were not afraid of death but of losing their liberty. My how things have changed.
myiq2xu
Was Adams wearing Vans/Reeboks/Nikes and $500 shades while bopping along to tunes on his Ipod?
Did he wear his tri-corner hat backwards and his pants so low you could see his union suit? Were the ladies wearing thong pantaloons?
I’m a history major but since I don’t get satellite or cable (I only watch porn) I can’t answer your question without more info.
The Grand Panjandrum
All Paul Giametti characters hate Merlot.
Ed Drone
I noticed a reference to ‘Bunker Hill, as the locale of the battle, but I thought it took place on Breed’s Hill. Perhaps the ‘mistake’ was contemporaneous, though, since we’ve heard of ‘Bunker Hill’ for years.
Otherwise, I saw no real screw-ups, though I did think Sam Adams was the real fire-brand, and not John Adams, but in the Continental Congress, John does all the talking. I wonder how close those speeches are to reality, like the transcripts of the proceedings.
Ed
Matt12
Just wait for The Alien and Sedition Acts part of the mini-series. His Constitution thrashing will earn him a place of high honor among the Bushies.
myiq2xu
Not likely. Adams was defeated by “Anti-federalist” Jefferson (aka The Father of the Democratic Party) which makes Adams the original neocon. He used the Alien and Sedition Acts to crack down on immigrants and domestic opponents. Sound familiar?
myiq2xu
Apparently Sam was a little too radical, having attended the wrong church, and was never able to become President.
He drowned his sorrows in beer which he made himself. Ironically, he is far more famous today than John.
Dulcie
I believe the miniseries is based on the Stephen Ambrose biography that came out three or four years ago. I think he was a consultant on the miniseries as well.
Laertes
On the one hand you have a fiery Massachussetts liberal. On the other you have man who unseated him, a southerner, a slaveowner, and the man who invented “States Rights.” And Adams is the one you liken to a modern neocon?
Mike
Is anyone old enough to remember The Adams Chronicles from the 70s able to compare the two?
myiq2xu
Since this thread is 30 minutes old it is subject to OT comments and hijack.
From the Swift one:
I’m sure the Professor can relate.
Gilligan too.
Zuzu
Seemed quite good, but if I heard one more Ben Franklin quotable stuffed in there…
Zuzu
Saw it, but not fresh enough in memory to do any sorts of comparisons. Except the ’70s miniseries crammed quite a few Adamses in there, as I recall.
Chuck Butcher
Re: Bunker Hill, comtemporaneous accounts also refer to Bunker Hill.
While the right wing is busy playing at being patriots they manage to miss that 1)they’d have been hung for a lot of the crap they’ve gotten up to 2)they would absolutely have had to investigate counter tops because that was a seriously dangerous and seditious bunch. They will, of course, inform you that these are dangerous times we live in. (pardon me ladies) What absolute pussies.
myiq2xu
If the GOP chickenhawks had been alive during the Revolutionary War they would have wanted to run it from behind the lines.
From someplace behind the lines like Mexico.
McCain was there, serving under John Paul Jones, but actual military service disqualifies him as a chickenhawk.
He’s still crazy as a shithouse rat though.
cbear
I deeply resent your impugning my character, and that of my fellow shithouse rats.
It is not we who seek to overthrow the governments of other nations, kill and maim their citizens, steal their natural resources.
Rather, we seek only to live quietly, peacefully, within the bowels of your society…and exercise our god-given right to vote for Hillary Clinton.
I insist you withdraw your offensive remark immmediately.
myiq2xu
Due to my addiction to alcohol, gambling and crystal meth, I made statements that I regret. I failed to live up to the high standards I set for myself. I apologize to my wives, mistresses, children, and anyone else I offended.
I renounce, denounce and hereby distance myself from my reprehensible behavior. I will be entering a celebrity rehab with Dr. Drew effective next season.
I hope you will still vote for me.
cbear
I regret to inform you that your self-renunciation and apology(s) are not sufficient to redress the grievous injuries you have inflicted upon shithouse rats, the readers of this blog, and the body politic of this nation.
We therefore demand that you gather the aforementioned wives, mistresses, children (and any other person or creature who was offended, might have been offended, or may be offended in the future) in a place of our choosing, and perform a ritual act of self-castration. We will also require that you cast the offending body parts to a pack of wild dogs upon completion of the act.(We will supply the dogs, and media)
Laertes
If the GOP chickenhawks had been alive during the Revolutionary War they would have fought for the King.
myiq2xu
If the GOP chickenhawks had been alive during the Revolutionary War they would not have fought.
for the King.Fixt
Chickenhawk = Pussy
cbear
Enlightened Layperson
Just wait for The Alien and Sedition Acts part of the mini-series. His Constitution thrashing will earn him a place of high honor among the Bushies.
The Alien and Sedition Acts are major blemishes on John Adams’ record and cannot be excused. Still, to his credit, he did ultimately recognize just how dangerous the wingnuts of his day were and moved to make peace before the wingnut were able to do anything worse.
cbear
Fixt better.
myiq2xu
It has come to my attention that some people were not satisfied with my earlier pious self-flagellations. For this I am deeply sorry.
I hereby renounce, denounce and deny all knowledge of my previous immoral acts, as well as my former co-sinners and cellmates.
I find it reprehensible that some people would engage in the politics of personal destruction by holding me accountable for my actions. I believe in an America where I am free to deny my past.
I hope that we can transcend this controversy so that I can continue to pursue my ambition to be the first person from my immediate family to occupy the White House.
As for my honorable opponent, I am saddened by the reports that he is a former Catholic priest who was defrocked for inappropriate acts with underage choirboys.
I hope he is able to refute the allegations that he was a recruiter for Michael Jackson and Mark Foley, and I want to state that I don’t believe the scurrilous rumors regarding him “widestancing” with a troop of boy scouts in a men’s room in Omaha.
myiq2xu
It is with the greatest reluctance that I address rumors that my honorable opponent, known as “cbear,” is actually the ursine mammal most commonly known as “Boo Boo,” and was a loyal accomplice of the imfamous “Yogi.”
Yogi was the leader of a criminal conspiracy to deprive hard-working blue-collar campers of their sustenance containers.
I am deeply saddened to relay this information. My thoughts are with cbear’s family, especially his common-law wives and numerous illegimate children.
myiq2xu
I apologize foe the typographical error in my previous post. That should be “Infamous.”
I also want to state that I do not believe that “Boo-Boo” and “Yogi” were gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with being an ass-bandit.
cbear
We, the undersigned, do not accept your renounciation, denounciation, and denial of all knowledge of your previous immoral acts.
Furthermore, your brazen attempt to distance yourself from the consequences of your actions, especially in regard to your unwanted sexual advances upon the family pets, barnyard animals, and other various and sundry creatures of our neighborhoods and communities, preclude us from considering your candidacy for anything other than Ringmaster of The Tijuana Horse, Donkey, & Hooker Extravaganza.
Signed,
Larry Craig
Lindsey Graham
Ted Bundy
Wayne Bobbitt
Eliot Spitzer
myiq2xu
As a member of the Democratic party, it is with the deepest sadness that I admit that all of the slurs, rumors and vicious innuendos that I have been forced to spread against my honorable opponent are absolutely true.
My prayers are with the candidate from Pedophilia as he and his family try to avoid the media by taking refuge inside a federally funded homeless shelter for left-handed monkey spankers with post-traumatic nasal drip.
It is my fondest hope that we can put this behind us so that he can explain why he refuses to produce his great-grandparent’s tax returns along with copies of his 3rd grade Parent-Teacher conference notes.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
cbear, myiq2xu-
STOP IT! Jesus, I’m on a laptop– do you know how expensive it is to replace keyboards and monitors one of these damn things???
jake
Thanks dudes. I’ll just slurp my Librul Latte off my keyboard.
Speaking of perversions:
Only someone who has neither been in a war zone nor ever stopped for five seconds to think about what life is like in a war zone would dare utter such words. Is it too much to hope he’ll stay?
cleek
Cheney looks like a de-helmeted Darth Vader, in this pic.
TR
True, but their “rallying” would’ve been nothing but little decorative pins of the King’s Crown on their lapels and a Support Our Redcoats sticker on their carriage.
And they would have had a cutesy Laffer curve explanation for the Stamp Act.
Scrutinizer
Gee, thanks Cleek. Now I’ve got “Dum dum dum, dumdi dum, dumdi dum, gunarg, gunarg” running through my head.
Mary
Gasp! Kristol gets something wrong, in the laziest, most self-serving way possible.
Newsmax wrong? Unpossible!
PigInZen
John,
One of the bloggers at The Edge of the American West didn’t really like Paul Giamatti’s portrayal of Adams and won’t be watching any more of the miniseries:
http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/paul-giamatti/
I’m not a professional historian but I did major in US History and contemplated getting a Master’s/PhD in History and I found the first two episodes to be historically accurate enough for TV viewing and oddly inspiring. The depiction of the politics of the Continental Congress was dead on and yes, John Adams did much of the arguing for independence side. At least they left out the Patrick Henry melodrama at the House of Burgesses… I have always been more of a fan of Jefferson.
And speaking of Jefferson, I see there was some uninformed criticism of him upthread. I humbly suggest to that reader that he (gender not assumed) familiarize himself with ol’ TJ, as he along with Adams and Madison is one of the true fathers of the American Republic. Take note that the man was at once a walking contradiction: slaveowner yet disdainful of the institution and sought to make the Declaration of Independence a statement of the universal rights of all people (not just white landowners). That part the miniseries got entirely correct even if it was just in passing.
Neal
Talking about wing nuts and the founders…the one quote that has stuck with me since the passing of the patriot act is Ben Franklin’s “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary security, deserve neither Liberty nor security.”
Try to tell that to one of those fuckers. They just stand there all mouth-breathing. Sometimes they tell you that Ben didn’t undertsand the world we live in today or some shit.
I think it’s wisdom.
I’d like to see the Adams special on HBO when it hits DVD. The revolutionary period is one of my primary interests. I’m a Jefferson guy but I’ve read a lot of Adams in the letters they exchanged. He really was brilliant. The Alien and Sedition acts were a major blemish but I think he grasped that down the road. He lived another quarter century after the presidency.
L Boom
Actually, to be historically accurate they’d be arguing over who wore the best garters. Which, of course, brings us full circle back to the modern day Republican closet cases. Funny how history repeats.
Neal
[applause]
Thank you. I was writing my comment at the same time as you. People simplify Jefferson without knowing anything about him.
I proposed to my fiance at the Jefferson Memorial last year. We had been to Monticello that morning actually. I guess you could call him a hero of mine. That Monticello gift shop damn near broke me.
AnneLaurie
In fact, I believe most of the neocons’ Revolutionary-era spiritual ancestors ended up in Canada, when they couldn’t pull a horowitz and become more revolutionary than the Minutemen (as a number of Donald Trump’s spiritual ancestors did in NYC). Few of the Tory “aristocracy” wanted to return to England and get snubbed by the old boys who invented the old boys network.
You could stretch the analogy and wonder if Ahmad Chalabi ever reads about Alexander Hamilton with envy — except for Hamilton’s demise in Hoboken, of course.
mark
You mean like this? Maybe we can arrange a performance for Darth Cheney.
PigInZen
*sniffle* I’m a sentimental patriot at heart and not ashamed to admit that the tears were streaming down my face during the miniseries last night. (Please, no insults about this…) But you, sir, outclass me. Proposing at the Jefferson Memorial? That’s loaded in so much historical metaphor it’s not even funny.
I’m a piker in comparison.
AnneLaurie
Let’s not forget that Jefferson wasn’t too “noble & upright” to steal the election of 1800 from Adams. Playing Adams-versus-Jefferson has been one of the great team sports among American historians for the past couple hundred years, and neither team is liable to concede defeat at this point.
joe
I’m not drinking any f*cking merlot!
If she wants to drink merlot, you’re drinking merlot!
Svensker
It was actually Weehawken, which is right next door, but up on top of the palisade, not down at the bottom.
myiq2xu
I drink your merlot!
Scrutinizer
When people bitch about how nasty and dirty this primary season has been, I refer them to Adams-Jefferson and Aaron Burr’s campaign for Governor of New York, not to mention his long feud with Hamilton. So far, Obama-Clinton has not been especially nasty.
timb
Ah, somewhere David McCullough is reclining on his bed of cash and cackling about how easy it is to write lay history.
Ambrose’s major interest was World War 2. He has sadly passed on. McCullough, God bless him, spends his time doing voice overs for ANY historical documentary around and contemplates his next book about the Founders, which relies on our collective ignorance of those gents, to add abnother wing to his vacation home.
We should remember that Adams is universally regards as a decent guy, who was a poor, poor President. His work on the Massachusetts state Constitution, securing support for the Declaration of Independence, and defending the British soldiers accused in the Boston Massacre should always be lauded (It is that defense of those soldiers that would earn him the hatred, forever, of the neocon clowns of the world).
Also, his correspondence with his wife and their affection for each other is one of the better love stories of all time.
BUT, it’s like a bio of Bush that focuses on baseball loving, his love of Laura, his rehabilitation from substance abuse, and his work on AIDS in Africa.
Adams suggested and signed the Alien and Sedition Acts, stared blankly into the face of the formation of political parties, refused to react to British pressings of soldiers or the French violations of American neutrality, refused to solve the credit crisis, and used the press to politically assassinate Jefferson.
myiq2xu
I’ll bet the Canadian media were filled with stories about the ineptness of Faux-General Washinton along with daily body counts. They probably swooned over the size of Lord Cornwallis’ codpiece.
Neal
Excuse me? If anyone was cheated in 1800, it was Burr. Thank God…and Burr was only in the running because Federalists were trying to sabotage Jefferson. Go read about it.
Adams went down largely because of the aforementioned Alien and Sedition acts. Popular vote: Adams, 25,952, Jefferson, 41,330.
Want to talk about stolen elections? 1824. John Quincy Adams. He lost the popular and electoral votes but still became president thanks to the house of representatives and Henry Clay.
Thanks, man. Thank god the lady is lovely enough to appreciate such things.
Standing on the steps at the Jefferson, looking at the Tidal basin and Washington monument. Just before midnight. Good stuff. The only negative was that it was 28 degrees out…but I had been planning it for months so I wasn’t going to let that stop me.
The Other Steve
I wonder if John Adams would have spent $11 billion on Presidential helicopters?
Xanthippas
Ha.
caustics
I wouldn’t mind being in a Percocet induced stupor until the morning of April 23. Better still would would be an implantable osmotic pump primed with Dilaudid.
myiq2xu
1876 – Rutherford B. Hayes lost to Samuel Tilden.
We all remember President Tilden don’t we?
GSD
GOP chickenhawks would have paid Hessians to fight for them while they pranced about in their powdered wigs and nut hugging leggings.
-GSD
norbizness
Unless the series has William Daniels (the voice of KITT, for God’s sake) singing show tunes, I want no part of the miniseries, which doesn’t matter anyway since I have no HBO like some homeless person.
myiq2xu
Joke Line reviews his column from 5 years ago cheerleading the war:
Who says they never learn?
Danton
I once saw a commercial for a miniseries that began with the words, “Finally, a miniseries worthy of the name.”
Neal
Yeah, that one was a clusterfuck. Good call.
The Other Steve
Hey, myiq, did you see this article about how the GOP is trying to game the Democratic nomination by voting for Hillary?
to quote Rush Limbaugh
Fascinating the friends you find.
frankdawg81
caustics Says:
I wouldn’t mind being in a Percocet induced stupor until the morning of April 23. Better still would would be an implantable osmotic pump primed with Dilaudid.
April 23rd hell – I want January 20th 2009 & morphine!
This may be the funniest comment thread on any political blog I have every read. Thanks to each and every one of you for a real day brightener! Funny and historical, who could ask for more?
My early reading lead me to believe that John was a real driving force in the revolution & the actual father of the Declaration of Independence. He was not given credit in large part because he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way (see Franklin’s comments about him in France). I understood it that he encouraged Jefferson to write the DoI because he knew he didn’t have any friends in Congress to work with but Jefferson did. I admired his ability to see his own shortcomings and work around them. I felt a real affinity with him. Later issues, like the Alien and Sedition Act, made me less enamored but I have always understood people to be much more complicated than my Elementary School history would have suggested.
ThymeZone
It’s the David McCullough biography. The book is authoritative WRT to Adams and the people who made this series spent a fortune to make it as historically accurate as possible. The website is loaded with information.
What surprises me is how little attention is paid to the christian evangelical underpinnings of America. Where are the snake handlers, where are the constant references to Jesus? The movie doesn’t show that they were building a new country that would only last a few generations before The Rapture and The Antichrist. Obviously, we have to take these omissions into account.
LBNL, the thing is fabulous, but, you know, it’s not The Wire. Come on.
jnfr
Laura Linney was born to play Abigail Adams.
myiq2xu
Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot
ThymeZone
“At last, a miniseries worthy of the name.”
The Wallstreet Journal
North and South.
Jen
“Bitch may be the new black, but black is the new president, bitch.”
I was so glad I had DVR at that moment, and so sad that after the NCAA we’re planning on scaling back to basic cable to save $. Basic cable, can you imagine?! Your charity is always welcome.
Krista
Mmm….Dilaudid. Good stuff.
What show was that on? I’m sorry to have missed that!
myiq2xu
Some people have a unique ability to cut through the fog of spin.
Jen
SNL. Sorry, probably should’ve provided that.
myiq2xu
What he said:
Here is a Nexus count of how much media coverage certain stories have received over the last 30 days, including the Surveillance State stories which Calabresi cites as proof that Americans don’t care about their constitutional liberties:
* “Spitzer and prostitutes” — 2,323 results
* “Spitzer and Kristen” — 1,087 results
* “Obama and Rezko” — 1,263 results
* “Obama and Jeremiah Wright” — 466 results
* “Wall Street Journal and data mining” — 9 results
* “FBI and National security letters” — 149 results
* “Intelligence Oversight Board” — 21 results
This is what establishment journalists like Calabresi always do. Their industry obsesses on the most vapid, inconsequential chatter. They ignore the stories that actually matter. And then they claim that Americans only care about vapid gossip and not substantive issues — and point to their own shallow coverage decisions as “proof” of what Americans care about.
I must respectfully disagree. We can never have to many stories about the sex lives of politicians and celebrities.
Especially if there are pictures.
myiq2xu
Oops, forgot the block quotes.
The first and last two sentences were mine.
empty
I think the name was Rutherfraud B. Hayes.
Jen
Thanks. I’ve always had a hard time distinguishing between myiq and Glennzilla.
Ed Drone
If you nearly went broke at the gift shop, why’d she agree to marry you? Your prospects look dim to me, if a gift shop excurion ‘nearly broke’ you.
Yeah, that one was the killer — to win the presidency, the parties agreed to end Reconstruction, removing the Army and Freedman’s Bureau, and opening the South up to the Klan, Jim Crow, and the noose. Of course, if Tilden had been chosen, the result might have been pretty much the same, since it was his party that wanted the South ‘released.’
A sad time for the country. But it occurs to me that there have been far, far too many sad times for this country, present days not excluded. We talk of historical elections and cheating, deal-making, horrendous laws, and all, and the old saying comes to mind: “le plus ca change, le plus ca meme chose”* (or, as the French say, “The more things change, the more they remain the same”).
Ed
* Yeah, I know; I can barely spell in English, and I also don’t know the typographical symbol for that French “c=s” letter that should be at the beginning of ‘ca.’ So cue me!
Neal
Ouch. Fucker.
empty
The clarity of intellect is similar. Though myiq is funnier.
Krista
try holding down Alt, and hitting 135 on your number keypad. Mais ca ne marche pas avec un laptop.
Brachiator
I’ve heard good things about the program, and listened to an informative interview with executive producer Tom Hanks about the program. But since I don’t get HBO, I would pay good (well, reasonable) money to be able to download the progam on iTunes.
As noted, the mini-series is based on the David McCullough biography, so one would reasonably expect it to be true to the spirit of that book.
On the other hand, the idea of “historically accurate” — Jesus, there ain’t no such thing. Adams was kinda the forgotten founder for a time (there is no Adams monument), and even though tons of letters between Adams and his wife, and between Adams and Jefferson have been available for years, he slipped through the cracks in part because he was not as noble as Washington, as fiery as Jefferson, as tragic a figure as Hamilton, or as lovable as Franklin. He has been reviled or loved as the times demand. To some historians, he has been over-rated, and for others, including McCullough, not rated highly enough.
By the way, the McCullough biography may be too big a read for those dipping into the mini-series now, so I would recommend the brief, but very insightful “Founding Brothers,” by Joseph Ellis, for a perspective on Adams and his contemporaries.
There was an interesting trifecta here. Jefferson didn’t have much of a voice, was shy, and not much of a public speaker. But Adams had a good courtroom technique. So the deal was that Jefferson would write the Declaration and Adams would, and did, help sell it.
Franklin provided a little polish and edit. One of his contributions was to change the wording of a line in Jefferson’s draft from “We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable…” to the more direct, secularly scientific, and electric “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”
This was Tracy Morgan, on this week’s SNL, providing a rejoinder to Tina Fey’s remarks from an earlier show.
b. hussein canuckistani
Who played Morticia and Fester?
Neal
As a Jefferson fan, I got into Ellis with American Sphinx. I found it to be one of the best books on TJ so I am now making my way through all of Ellis’ books. Founding Brothers is on my nightstand right now. He’s excellent.
DougJ
You know, that 61 Cheval he sucked down at the burger place at the end of Sideways is about 1/3 merlot.
croatoan
President Adams approved the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, which says “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” The treaty was unanimously approved by the Senate.
croatoan
Adams and Jefferson died on the same day, July 4, 1826, the 50 year anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Brachiator
Adams died?
Damn. You just spoiled the ending of the mini-series for me.
/snark
Neal
Har Har Har…
Yes, they did die on the same day and Adams’ last words (or close to it) were “Jefferson still lives”.
Tom S
Adams was indeed swift-boated: he was constantly accused of wanting to either establish a monarchy or to reunite with Britain.
dbrown
Jefferson was a pig – when he wasn’t raping his female slave (who was a relative of his late wife!!) he was selling the slaves off to buy wine (I guess the wine helped him to hid all his secret feelings of love for his fellow black americans that worked and died tilling his fields for the so-called ‘farmer’ – like most of the southern landed filth/trash that was to cause the greatest mass murder of white Americans soon in the civil war (ok, 1860 wasn’t soon, but I like to be dramatic).
At least G. W. (Washington! Of course) freed his slaves upon his death unlike jefferson.
Chuck Butcher
TJ may be the most complex of the characters of the time, there can be little doubt he was deeply in love with Sally Himmings, but he also came to a poor resolution of his own slave issue and the nation’s. It pays to remember that Jefferson’s estate was hugely in debt and the choice were not really his to make.
I have long been of the opinion that TJ’s intellect was not only one of his greatest assets but also one of he greatest downfalls. In both his own writings and with in his correspondent’s there are hints that he tended to over analyze to the point of paralysis.
Zuzu
And who could forget Abigail’s admonition to “Remember the Ladies” ?
Uhm … oh, right.
AnneLaurie
Zuzu, I always wanted to work this quote up as a sampler, in a pseudo-Coloniale font with little eagles for decoration and a red-white’n’blue border. Just for the cognitive dissonance.