Kristol issues a correction:
In this column, I cite a report that Sen. Obama had attended services at Trinity Church on July 22, 2007. The Obama camapaign has provided information showing that Sen. Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error.
And that means the entire column is about as meaningful as a wet fart. Once the “gotcha” element of the op-ed piece is not there, the entire story falls flat. Maybe I was wrong about that being the wrong debate to have. I still think this entire meta-debate is ludicrous, for reasons I stated in the update to the post below.
Any debate that leads people to vote for McSame is the ‘right’ ddebate. Where you been?
For those who haven’t already seen them, here are some excerpts from the blog that have apparently put Andrew Sullivan back on suicide watch:
This is just typical right-wing nonsense.
When I hear someone say “God damn America” my first thought is “why is he saying that? we should fix whatever is making him angry so he will love this country like I do.” The modern Republican’s first thought is: Get out the muzzle, slap a flag pin on his lapel, and shut him up. It’s more important to issue hollow praise than to take a hard-eyed looke at our nation’s faults with a view to repairng them.
You know, the more I think about this whole Wright thing (and trust me, I’ve been trying not to) the more I want to puke. I’ve watched the video about four times now and each time I felt a growing urge to say, “A-fucking-men!”
This whole thing is predicated on the fact that what he said was awful, which I’m less and less convinced it was, and on the fact that if Wright said it, Obama must believe it. Bullshit, I say. I know plenty of supposedly pious fuckers who go to church like clockwork, and yet for all the “good” being preached there, it doesn’t seem to have sunk in. They still cheat on their wives, embezzle money from their companies, and make horribly racial remarks in smaller company. So you can’t have it both ways. Either everything every preacher everywhere says sinks in to the congregation and matches that congregation’s core values, or you have to allow for the possibility that most of it, in fact, doesn’t.
He just made that comparison cuz O’bama is black, smooth like buttah, and pops up periodically to avoid getting completely burned.
I think it’s racist.
I tend to wonder here if the outrage about this only comes from Beltway types who don’t know that about two-thirds of the population agrees with most of what Wright said.
This is what we, in the policy debating arena, refer to as an “easy win”. If wingnut wronghead makes the climactic announcement that “if A then you should vote B” and the educated public points out “not A”, the pundit can then proceed to step C which involves a great deal of STFU.
..a party member doesn’t speak out against any republican approved institutions, the enemy must be among us.
Meanwhile, while the media distracts us with nonsense, check this graph out on the state of liquid reserves available in the Federal Reserve system-
I’m no banker/analyst, but this sure looks like the patient just flat-lined…
Sully’s comment only reaffirms that Sully is a jackass.
Shorter Kristol: I regret that I let that easily disprovable lie get halfway around the world before I put some pants on the truth. Heh heh. Heh.
Too funny. According to him, when the papers print an article, it’s cuz Americans want to read about it. When they don’t, it’s because Americans want to read about it, and papers really want to piss off their customers by not printing it.
Shorter Sully: I can haz bear?
Fun trivia for the day:
~h/t Sadly, No
None of which matters of course. Like Dan Riehl says, it was false but accurate:
No, it’s a good thing. I think it’s quite possible for the right to overplay this card. If they push a gotcha attack and it’s completely wrong, it makes the people pushing the attack seem silly.
Then again, maybe I’m excited because I just received an email from the Times saying that I was right and they were wrong. Sure it’s a form email, but still…
So is Obama still a stealth Muslim hell-bent on giving America away to Al Qaeda, or is he now a Christian by convenience?
My head hurts.
I think what’s “toast” is the old, worn out set of rightwing manipulations.
It’s okay with me if they haven’t learned it yet, the more they wrap around this sort of thing, the better we will do.
People aren’t reponding to this shit any more. They have seen what happens when they do. They don’t like it.
Nice try, Dug Jay. Sully isn’t on suicide watch, and he disagrees with Burka at length:
Actually, I think Obama is gonna beat the pants off both Clinton and McCain.
EVERYTHING the talking heads has said in the last 8 years has been wrong. It is a good predictor of the weather if the pundits say, “sunny,” pack your gear for a fucking cat 5 hurricane.
As an aside, if Obama thought he was tempered because of Clinton, he is finding out what the Wurlitzer is really like.
If he is smart, and I think he is, he will start hitting Clinton and McCain on the coming economic meltdown. They were both in high positions of leadership when something could have reasonably been done about the falling dollar, and both sat on their hands and triangulated.
Heh. It may in fact look like I’m slapping the ass of the MUP–no, really I’m not. But who doesn’t love a bloody knuckle fight among people you generally find loathsome??
ed, Face: that’s Paul Burka, not Sully, who goes on the toast rant.
Oops. I signed as if on an email. Well, guess I’ll burn in hell now.
I think you’ll burn in hell for signing your emails with “Lol”. Of course, knowing that you’ve hit rock bottom is actually quite liberating.
Raptor Jesus is amused.
Oh and the other reason to stop this, is that conservatives (and Clinton supporters, but is there much of a difference these days?) were starting up with, “It’s not the sermon, it’s the lie,” as their argument. When the lie turns out to be the truth, well then they have a problem.
So unlike the usual Kristol Method column.
Time to place your bets. A Brown Squirt has issued one correction will he:
1. Milk this once-in-an-eon event for all it’s worth, frequently citing this one correction as proof that he’s a fair, objective reporter of the world around us when people call him on the towering mound of burning bs in the rest of his columns.
2. Be stripped of his badge and cast out of the company of respected Brown Squirts, mocked and shunned until he dies at which point the fat heads at the Weakly Substrata will take up his corpse in a loving embrace.
I’m going with 1.
ed, Face: that’s Paul Burka, not Sully, who goes on the toast rant.
Duly noted. But Sully’s still a jackass.
Well, fair play’s a jewel. As yet nothing on Clinton’s connecton with those America loving Skverer Hasidim from New Square:
A town run as if it were 18th century Poland, people speaking Yiddish, not English, women having to wear head scarves and not allowed to pray with men in shul – oh! the humanity!
What is Clinton’s connection with these retro, American hating, women abusing, religious nutjobs who don’t even speak English?
I was a liberal when it was still a dirty word. I still am a liberal.
It’s not our fault that the DOJ decided to let the dogs out on Spitzer the same week that the Machine had planned to stop Obama with the Wright scare-a-thon.
As of today, the Spitzer story is out linking Obama-Wright on Google News, and the Spitzer story is still hot on the wires even as we speak while the Write story is as cold as Hillary Clinton’s lips.
And of course, when you drill down into the Obama dustup, you get stuff like this. Bring it, bring it, bring it.
I was going to go with “3. Never allow another living soul to speak of this again, on pain of calling the offender a nit-picky hyper-PC intellectually challenged hypocrite.”
Somewhere Mike D. just read that and had an enormous orgasim. Thx, LN.
While you’re down there, could you drop off something to myiq2xu for me?
Is that a Jesus who plays for the Raptors, or a more literal dinosaur version of Jesus, risen from extinction to eat us all?
Better visuals on the Spitzer thing.
Hillary used her family connections to get me a staff position.
Jeebus did not really ride on a dinosaur, no matter what Mike pHuckabee says.
However, at the last supper he told his unemployed friends to “Eat me.”
Not all Clinton supporters are that bad, but I just spent the day doing my bit by fighting back conservative reports on MyDD. The work starts to become exhausting. Then again, the only chance Clinton has right now is a major scandal, so they’re trying to create one.
Dennis - SGMM
Paging the Republican Party!
Gosh, this “debate” over Obama’s pastor is really interesting.
/fills up tank with $4.00 gas
/looks at 401(k)
/remembers the 4000 dead Americans in Iraq
Oh, yeah. Now I remember why I don’t give a rat’s ass.
Svensker says: Oy
I wonder what FOX & Co would make of Richard Pryor today — especially the “dead honky” skit (it’s only a description since stupid Viacom pulled the youtube). Dang, I wish he were still around.
None of them work. We just put them up for laughs.
it’s a little soon to conclude that. this quote below from TPM is so full of the BS that is campaigning today. god, make it stop.
As a rabid Hillbot even I think this is wrong.
He’s less popular than George Bush?
The Other Steve
Didn’t Richard Pryor himself say he was stupid for using language like that?
The Other Steve
Ohwell, nice that this Wright thing came out now then later.
Sounds like he’s still trolling for bareback buddies.
Remember, this is the guy who was stupid enough to be shilling for Big Dick & The Chimp who appointed John Ashcroft as the AG.
Nevermind the fact that Ashcroft, given full rein to act on his religious beliefs, would have reached out his oily hand, snatched-up little Sully, and hung him from the nearest lampost.
Sorry, once you’ve crossed that Rubicon of stupidity you just don’t get to be taken seriously again.
the freepers are still defending that NewsMax article, over there in freeperville (not gonna link). they swear the church doctored the records of the times the sermons were given to cover up the FACT(!!!) that Obama actually attended the service in question. they’ve got the times it should take to get to the church, attend the service, get in a car and get to the airport, and fly to Miami. they’re a step away from mapping out the route on MapQuest.
one freeper suggests that maybe the SS should stop protecting Obama.
remember, though: it’s the black people who hate America.
actually these are cheney-like levels.
The Briscoe Kid
Here’s a must-read on the hypocrisy of the Rev. Wright controversy from former evangelical Frank Schaeffer. His father, Francis Schaeffer, was a founder of the Religious Right movement.
By “airing the root?”
I keep signing my email with ‘Cain’. hehe.
sri er.. cain
No offense to the residents of MUPville, but I can think of lots of errors Kristol made that he should be regretting first.
If this were true, in my mind that would be a big plus for the MUP, not a negative. But I am a DFH.
Is that higher or lower than Pat Robertson, after he blamed 911 on Americans?
Or Jerry Falwell, after be blamed Katrina on Americans?
Who is keeping track of these things? Jesus wants to know!
Wasn’t it “Eat me, bitches!”
Historical and Biblical accuracy are important ….
Pat Robertson is black? Who knew?
So to change the subject, we’re hosting an Obama staffer for the next couple of nights. The campaign is in NC. Cleek and pb, maybe you guys can still sign up to host, too! I’m absurdly excited about it, considering the abysmal state of my guest room/office/random stuff room.
I can’t stand this.
Folks, I’m a liberal because of my roots in the church. I believe that “whatsoever you to the least of these, so also you have done to me” and that “they will say ‘I never met you’ and I will say ‘I was hungry and you fed me; I was in prison, and you came to me'”. Those things have been at the core of my political philosophy since before I knew I had one.
But why do I care where your beliefs come from? If you believe that it’s your moral duty to feed the hungry, aid the poor, and do good to others, then why do I give a flying fuck why you believe that? I’ll fight at your side, no matter what name you give your reasons. Conversely, if you believe in comforting the comfortable, starving the poor, oppressing the beaten down, and exalting the powerful, then why do I care what name you give to your inspiration? I’ll fight you and your beliefs.
Sweet, I should check that out.
Oh, right. Better you than me, then. No, really.
It’s actually kind of a shame TZ believes I’m female, now, because he would probably accept a sworn affidavit as to my gender from an official Obama campaign staffer. I keep my notary stamp in that office/guest bedroom, too, it’d be real easy.
I hope everybody realizes that the whole Obama candidacy is playing out like a series of famous scenes from “Blazing Saddles”.
Here’s one of my favorites:
The Waco Kid (Gene Wilder) has become Black Bart’s sole ally after sobering up, and is now known as “Deputy Spade.”
The Kid suggests that the townspeople cannot be won over:
“I don’t want you goin’ out there this mornin’. You can’t win these people over no matter what you do. They’re just not gonna accept you.”
Out on the street, Black Bart (Cleavon Little) greets an old woman: “Mornin’, ma’am. And isn’t it a lovely mornin’?
Old woman: “Up yours, nigger.”
Later, The Waco Kid comforts and reassures the racially-slurred sheriff after his efforts to be accepted have failed:
“What did you expect? ‘Welcome, sonny?’ ‘Make yourself at home.’ ‘Marry my daughter.’ You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the New West. You know – morons.”
I’m sure your mom’d be cool with it, Pb. :)
They were specifically looking for Durhamites.
Ah, cbear, but you forgot the exciting conclusion, where the old lady apologizes for calling him a nigger and brings…
It’s so prophetic.
They’ve got a Jose, Jorje, a Carlos, an Andrea and a Rasho, but nobody named Jesus ATM.
Sorry, I only believe what the Big Giant Head tells me.
Stop agreeing with me. I have a reputation to protect here.
A bad one, but still.
cbear, you just made my day. No joke. Thank you for reminding me that this has already been parodied.
I do what the little head tells me to do.
“Oh it’s twue. It’s twue it’s twue!”
I don’t know how to make schnitzengruben, but I would try, for Obama.
Are there any openings this man might fit?
Is that what they’re calling it these days?
I swear, you crazy kids and your new sexual vocabulary.
I hope you’ll be responsible enough to get some protection before you let anyone put their schnitzen in your gruben.
(Sorry Jen, sometimes I just can’t help myself.)
Abso-effing-lutely. The Sermon on the Mount is the definitive teaching of Christ. Those words are the only reason I have not disavowed Christianity.
That’s the same group who will put a burning cross on your lawn and thump you to death with their Bible–not exactly what Jesus had in mind, eh?
The Other Steve
The Laugher Curve proved that the Sermon on the Mount is nonsense, and a lower residual tax rate to the upper class is better for the meak.
The Wright Stuff has had its effect. Hillary has retaken the lead in polls.
You boys oughtta be ashamed. No pie or schnitzengruben for you.
Can I have some schadenfreude, instead? Maybe some Manichean? (Or is that manicotti? I can’t remember.)
“ed, Face: that’s Paul Burka, not Sully, who goes on the toast rant.
Duly noted. But Sully’s still a jackass.”
I agree with you here but his story about on why he buys Obama explanation is one of the most heartfelt things I’ve read in a while, it was suprisingly moving and made me understand Sully’s backing of Bush a lot more.
slippy hussein toad
I will gladly provide a sword for Mr. Kristol to fall upon.
No, seriously. I have a real one. It’s a $10 fake Katana so it will work just one time.
But once is enough.
Last chance, Bill. Going, going . . .
A few of Wrights comments I transcribed:
Obama:”I don’t think my church is particularly controversial.”
“The government gives us drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strikes law and then wants us to sing God Bless America? No, no no, not God bless America, God damn America. That’s in the Bible. We’re killing innocent people. God. Damn. America. For treating us citizens as less than human.
(You can agree with part of the sentiment and still wonder WTF is a preacher doing saying that with the authority of God from the pulpit)
Also … Hillary is married to Bill and Bill had been good to us. No he ain’t. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was ridin’ dirty. (complete with grinding and thrusting gestures. I was simultaneously pretty disgusted and amused.)
Rev. Wright’s Dec. 25, 2007 sermon (long excerpt):
“… Who cares about what a poor black man has to face every day in a country and a culture controlled by rich, white people.
Somebody missed that, you got nervous, cause we got some white members here. I’m still in Bible country. I am still in the text. Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich, white people.
The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italians, which means they were European, which means they were white. And the Romans ran everything in Jesus’ country.
It just came to me within the last few weeks y’all why so many people are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn’t fit the model. He ain’t white. He ain’t rich. And he ain’t privileged.
Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Guiliani fits the mold. Rich, white, men fit the mold.
Hillary never had a cab whizz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color.
Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong neigh-…. IIIIIII am sick of negroes who just do not get it.
Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home; Barack was. Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people.
Hillary can never know that.
Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger.
Hillary has never had her people defined as non-persons.
Hilary ain’t had to work twice as hard just to get accepted by the rich, white folk who run everything or to get a passing grade when you know you are smarter than that C student sitting in the White House.
Oh I am so glad that I got a God who knows what it is to be a poor, black man in a country and a culture that is controlled by and run by rich, white people.
He taught me, Jesus did, how to love my enemies. Jesus taught me how to love the Hell out of my enemies and not be reduced to their level of hatred, bigotry and small-mindedness.
Hillary ain’t never had her own people say she wadnt [ph.] white enough. Jesus had his own people siding with the enemy. That’s why I love Jesus y’all. He never let their hatred dampen his hope.
There is a name I love to hear. I love to sing his worth It sounds. …”
This speech seems to both assume a lot about Hlllary and dismiss any troubles she’s had.
I realize that my Hillary support colors my view hear, but Obama out and is playing us for fools if he wants us to believe that he didn’t know what Wright was all about. Obama already twice in 2007 said he would need to distance himself from Wright. Obama knew and he’s lying about that.
judgment is what it’s coming down to for me. His hand-picked advisors pop off and say what he’s saying in public is just talk; his close friend and pastor is “rough” in Obama’s words and his “five hours of time billed” explanation for Rezko as Obama mentioned in a debate is now – amazingly – a 17-year friendship. (Mentioned in his long sit down with the Chicago Tribune Friday.)
I don’t like feeling duped and I’m happy I’m not in the position of being an Obama supporter now because regardless of whether he wins the nom, I’d be worried about who this guy is. He sure seems to think people won’t question or worry about all this.