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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / Please Just Make It All Go Away

Please Just Make It All Go Away

by John Cole|  March 19, 20084:12 pm| 199 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, Media, Politics

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So Hillary’s records as First Lady were finally released, and this is the first thing our liberal media looks into:

Hillary Clinton spent the night in the White House on the day her husband had oral sex with Monica Lewinsky, and may have actually been there when it happened, according to records of her schedule released today by the National Archives.

An initial review by ABC News of the 17,481 pages of Sen. Hillary Clinton’s schedule as first lady, released today by the National Archives, also finds significant gaps in time and many days containing only “private meetings” at the White House with unnamed individuals.

Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

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Reader Interactions

199Comments

  1. 1.

    mightygodking

    March 19, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    You realize, of course, it is a hop skip and jump from that statement to “Hillary watched Bill get blown then pretended to be angry afterwards. That’s why she never left him – she got off on it.”

    I’m just preparing you for what’s going to be the nutbar mantra if Hillary is the candidate, understand. That’ll be the tame part.

  2. 2.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    I agree completely, John, but that just doesn’t make me want to be an Obama guy.

    Know what? Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately. I could give a shit if Obama didn’t vote for it, get out of there!

    80% emissions reduction by 2050–boy, Obabma sure channeled Al Gore there. Krugman thinks Obama is totally unserious about healthcare. If Obama has a confrontative position on taxation or militarism it hasn’t penetrated to me, and I pay attention.

    Obama thinks he can transform our media-driven politics. I don’t think he can. I’d like him to, but I simply doubt it.

    I got lumped into the “old way” as an “old player,” when all I did was fight all I could for 7 years to save the country.

    I’ll wait, thank you. There’s plenty of time yet to beat the unholy shit out of the republicans, that day is coming, no matter who the nominee is.

  3. 3.

    Buck

    March 19, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately.

    I sincerely did not know that was her position.

    I need to start paying closer attention.

  4. 4.

    John Cole

    March 19, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Know what? Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately. I could give a shit if Obama didn’t vote for it, get out of there!

    That is her position on the war right now, during the primaries. It changes depending on the audience.

  5. 5.

    Zifnab

    March 19, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    You realize, of course, it is a hop skip and jump from that statement to “Hillary watched Bill get blown then pretended to be angry afterwards. That’s why she never left him – she got off on it.”

    Dude. The very fact that they bothered to check that particular set of records seems to suggest they were printing those headlines before they even had the evidence in.

    Now that we’re done looking up Hillary’s dress, can we please see the 5 million missing White House emails that Rove “lost”? Oh, and can we get those subpoenas on Harriet Miers and Joshua Bolton enforced? No? Executive Privilege? Oh, my bad.

    Know what? Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately.

    Oh SHUT UP! Hillary was the douchebag sitting on her podium back in ’07, lecturing Dems about how we can’t pull out too quickly and demanding that we all “be serious” about keeping 40k soldiers in the country through the end of her first term. If you think this is anything but a late-game political flip-flop, turn in your voter ID and your thinking cap as you’ve forfeited the rights to both of them.

  6. 6.

    ploeg

    March 19, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Know what? Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately.

    Know what? By January 2009, I don’t think that there will be a serious option but to get the fuck out immediately, regardless of who wins.

  7. 7.

    zack

    March 19, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Oh, my God, it’s Vince Foster and he’s heading this way. Quick, someone shoot a watermelon. That’ll prove something.

    ”…also finds significant gaps in time and many days containing only “private meetings”

    Oh, oh. Where’s Dan Burton when we need him?

    Oh, great, he’s still in office and just ready and willing to conduct further investigations into those “private meetings.”

    When will we learn the truth?

  8. 8.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Hillary Clinton spent the night in the White House on the day her husband had oral sex with Monica Lewinsky, and may have actually been there when it happened, according to records of her schedule released today by the National Archives.

    Experience? Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

  9. 9.

    jenniebee

    March 19, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Oh SHUT UP! Hillary was the douchebag sitting on her podium back in ‘07, lecturing Dems about how we can’t pull out too quickly and demanding that we all “be serious” about keeping 40k soldiers in the country through the end of her first term. If you think this is anything but a late-game political flip-flop, turn in your voter ID and your thinking cap as you’ve forfeited the rights to both of them.

    How does Zif know that this is a politically motivated about-face and not a reassessment in light of a constantly changing situation on the ground?

    Shut up, that’s how.

  10. 10.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    I agree. And with the Rev. Wright controversy causing problems for Obama, I think the Democratic Party should consider drafting a nominee.

    There is only one man with the experience to provide the kind of leadership we need.

    Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

  11. 11.

    calipygian

    March 19, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    I’m waiting for Michelle Malkin to figure out who the hitman was that killed Vince Foster based on who Hillary met with the week before his murder.

    I say it was Hillary in the Blue Room with the diamond tipped vibrator myself.

  12. 12.

    JWeidner

    March 19, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Experience? Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

    No one said Bill wasn’t a multi-tasker…

  13. 13.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    If Hillary’s wr message has changed, will it somehow regress back to something less? I don’t know.

    I need hope real bad, and if Hillary doesn’t change on this she’s delivering a hell of a lot more than Obama right now.

    People hate the war, they really do, it’s got to end. For the life of me I can’t understand how Obama does not rip Bush and the GOP to utter shreds over the war every day. I swear to God if he had he never would have had to pay attention to what his preacher said.

    I fight, fair and square, and the message I get from Obama is that he can take America forward without one.

    I’m holding my tongue, he may be right. But if he is wrong, with everything that’s at stake, well by God I will not forget it.

    Hey–YOU shut up, you Obama-ranting feakout. No wonder all the writers split from Kos’s place, everyone is sick of you. Shut up–yeah, make me, bitch.

    Effective, aren’t you? Whatsamatta, did that hurt? Here, have some more!

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

  14. 14.

    mightygodking

    March 19, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

    Well, OBVIOUSLY it was a woman with no security clearances.

  15. 15.

    libarbarian

    March 19, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye?

    She was in the WH, but was she in the same room? Are NJ governors not the only ones having 3-ways?

    I remember hearing people ask “why didn’t she leave him?” Well maybe its because she was a willing participant all along. Maybe Bill is her wingman and all that trolling for booty has been for both of them. Maybe he lied under oath, not to protect himself, but to protect her.

    For more idle speculation completely unsupported by any evidence, toon in to tomorrows “Libarbarian Show” where we will speculate on whether or not Bill & Hillary were the subject of a bisexual alien gangbang, what their half-alien child looks like, and what third-world couple might possibly be raising it in secret until it can emerge as an adult to rule the world.

  16. 16.

    Liberal Masochist

    March 19, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Springer?

  17. 17.

    mightygodking

    March 19, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    Just wait until next week when she changes her mind again.

    Just wait until next week when she changes her mind again.

    Just wait until next week when she changes her mind again.

  18. 18.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    She was in the WH, but was she in the same room? Are NJ governors not the only ones having 3-ways?

    Maybe now that Joel Whats-his-nose is out of jail, we can finally get “Girls Gone Wild, In the Oval Office” released on DVD

  19. 19.

    AkaDad

    March 19, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

    Al Gore, because Hillary didn’t have security clearance. ;-)

  20. 20.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Springer?

    With Steve the Security Guard for VP!

    Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

  21. 21.

    Zifnab

    March 19, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    How does Zif know that this is a politically motivated about-face and not a reassessment in light of a constantly changing situation on the ground?

    Shut up, that’s how.

    Woo! Ace of Spades reference entirely appreciated.

    Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.

    If you play that statement backwards on a loop, it sinks up perfectly with the theme song from LOST.

    Think about it.

  22. 22.

    skyler

    March 19, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    but where was she when vince foster was murdered??????

  23. 23.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    If you play that statement backwards on a loop, it sinks up perfectly with the theme song from LOST.

    All I hear is “Paul is dead, Paul is dead.”

  24. 24.

    crayz

    March 19, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Holy shit, if the people reading a moderate/liberal political blog are dumb enough to believe Hillary means whatever it she’s saying about the war this week, this country is truly fucked

    Just vote for her and get it over with already. I should have known better than to think a country that elected GWB – twice – would be able to turn around and support Obama 3 years later

  25. 25.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    We could nominate Jesus of Nazareth and the GOP smear-merchants would be hatching evil theories about how he spent the three days between his crucifixion and resurrection, and snottily “liveblogging” the sermon on the mount to bitch about socialism.

    I’m good and pissed at Senator Clinton, but the fact that the wingnuts hate her extra double special is a mark for her, not against her.

  26. 26.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    but where was she when vince foster was murdered??????

    At a motel with Chandra Levy

  27. 27.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Of all the things that could have been examined, ABC picked the Monica deal?

    That’s …. stupefying, actually. Apparently our friends in the media have no boundaries when it comes to abject horse’s-assitude.

    Obviously they can’t rise above the level of “BLOWJOBS!” and “SCREAMING BLACK PASTORS!”

    But …. we can. We don’t have to be like them.

    I sincerely hope that nobody even THINKS of using this information politically against Clinton. Aside from the fact that it is none of our business, it’s just dumb. I don’t care where she was that day. At all. Don’t want to know.

  28. 28.

    Chris O.

    March 19, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    My (least) favorite part of the AP article:

    But the release of the documents reminds voters anew about Bill Clinton’s affair and the impeachment proceedings that brought Washington to a halt for a year.

    Yes, reminded because that’s what you’re reporting! I hadn’t even thought of that consequence of this records release before I saw AP’s headline.

  29. 29.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    We could nominate Jesus of Nazareth and the GOP smear-merchants would be hatching evil theories about how he spent the three days between his crucifixion and resurrection, and snottily “liveblogging” the sermon on the mount to bitch about socialism.

    He hung around with a bunch of unemployed DFH’s and a hooker named Mary.

  30. 30.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    I don’t care where she was that day. At all. Don’t want to know.

    Are you sure? I have a copy of the video!

  31. 31.

    4tehlulz

    March 19, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    >>Hillary is better than Obama on the war right now.
    >>better than Obama on the war right now.
    >>on the war right now.
    >>right now.

    lulz. What about Kyl-Lieberman, child?

  32. 32.

    jj

    March 19, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    This is the least of Hillary’s troubles to bring Monica back up. This is why she must lose, and Obama must win.

    She has not been fully vetted.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56868

  33. 33.

    AkaDad

    March 19, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza.

  34. 34.

    Wilfred

    March 19, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Know what? Hillary’s answer is better on the war right now, which is get the fuck out immediately. I could give a shit if Obama didn’t vote for it, get out of there!

    It is? I’ll have to let Pat Lang know that. he likes her plan because it’s NOT what you say it is. Her own site says:

    Bring Our Troops Home. As President, one of Hillary’s first official actions will be to convene the Joint Chiefs of Staff, her Secretary of Defense, and her National Security Council. She will direct them to draw up a clear, comprehensive plan for withdrawal that starts removing our troops within 60 days.

    This is ‘get the fuck out immediately’? Another liar.

  35. 35.

    Mike S

    March 19, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    This is a perfect example of just how far down our so called libru media has fallen. Nobody gives a damn about where she was when he was getting blown. And yet that’s where ABC went right off the bat.

    If they had shame they would die of it.

  36. 36.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Just wait until next week when she changes her mind calculation of how to get the most votes in Pennsylvania again.

  37. 37.

    libarbarian

    March 19, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    We could nominate Jesus of Nazareth and the GOP smear-merchants would be hatching evil theories about how he spent the three days between his crucifixion and resurrection, and snottily “liveblogging” the sermon on the mount to bitch about socialism.

    What was the semi-naked young man doing with him when he was arrested?

  38. 38.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    What was the semi-naked young man doing with him when he was arrested?

    The first communion?

    “Take, eat: this is my body.”

    “Take it Beeyotch!” (St. Francisco version)

  39. 39.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    How does Zif know that this is a politically motivated about-face and not a reassessment in light of a constantly changing situation on the ground?

    she’s a clinton. of course it’s a politically motivated about face.

    the only “situation on the ground” bill clinton ever paid attention to was the political situation. i honestly don’t expect ‘mrs. triangulation’ to be any different.

  40. 40.

    Texas Dem

    March 19, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    It goes almost without saying that either Hillary or Obama are light years ahead of McCain on the war, the economy, and almost any other issue you care to consider. The reason they’re both polling either near or slightly behind McCain, even with an unpopular war and a collapsing economy, is that middle America is just not ready to elect either a black or a woman as president. This would have been the year to go with a safe choice, such as Al Gore or Mark Warner, and select a woman or a black for vp. The Dems are trying to push the political conversation forward and you have to admire them for that, but the country is just not ready to go there. Sorry folks, but that’s the bitter truth.

  41. 41.

    Zifnab

    March 19, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    But… but… but… the question no one except a true conservative is brave enough to ask:

    WHERE WAS CHELSEA?!

    If you want to get really disturbing, you could ask for the whereabouts of Socks the cat. Let’s just say I’ve got my suspicious about what type of pussy the Clintons are really into.

  42. 42.

    Ninerdave

    March 19, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Experience? Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

    Isn’t that kinda hard to do without a security clearance?

  43. 43.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    IOW – “I want to see a new Democrat get destroyed.”

    Come on John! Sack up!

  44. 44.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    WHERE WAS CHELSEA?!

    I’d hit that!

  45. 45.

    Ninerdave

    March 19, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Is Paradox having a temper tantrum? Does someone need their binky and beddy bye?

  46. 46.

    Ninerdave

    March 19, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Oh and for anyone that is actually surpised the media went for the Monica thing first. Really, what did you expect. Seriously, you’re surprised?

  47. 47.

    SpotWeld

    March 19, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    That is her position on the war right now, during the primaries. It changes depending on the audience

    Wow… the Quantum Poltician. You change thier opinion by observing it.

  48. 48.

    Zifnab

    March 19, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    This would have been the year to go with a safe choice, such as Al Gore or Mark Warner, and select a woman or a black for vp. The Dems are trying to push the political conversation forward and you have to admire them for that, but the country is just not ready to go there. Sorry folks, but that’s the bitter truth.

    In 1984 we nominated Walter Mondale for President, and he reminded us that we need to be careful who picks up the telephone in the White House. We elected Ronald Reagen to a second term.

    In 1988 we nominated a rich Massachusetts Governor who drove around in a giant tank to give himself “tough guy” creds. We lost that election to the ex-Head of CIA.

    In 2000 we nominated a southern farm boy from Tennessee who fought in Vietnam, studied journalism, law, and theology at Vanderbilt, served 24 years in public office as a Congressman then Senator then Vice President, and – while he was there – helped pave the way for the modern internet. We didn’t want to have a beer with him, so he lost.

    In 2004, we ratcheted it up a step and nominated a full-blown Purple Heart veteran to be our candidate for highest office. I don’t think I need to remind you what happened that year.

    There are no “safe bets” for President anymore. Either the country is with the progressive agenda or it isn’t. Either we’re going to fight for every state (rather than dickering over “swing” states and crying into our soup over Ralph Nader candidates) or we’re going to lose again. Either we’re going to cut through the media bull crap and sell ourselves to America, or we’re going to be kicked to the historical curb.

    There’s no more time for pussyfooting. It’s bold moves or bust.

    Besides, we asked Al Gore to run again and – after seeing the mess we’d made of his country – he told us to politely fuck off.

  49. 49.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    hey, *I* want to see the New Democrats destroyed.

  50. 50.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    There’s no more time for pussyfooting. It’s bold moves or bust

    You skipped two election years. The years we nominated A CLINTON!

    We won those two times. WE LOST THE OTHERS!

    Just saying

  51. 51.

    AkaDad

    March 19, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    “I really like the way Obama operates. The way he handles himself in a crisis. That’s what we need in a President.”

    Joe Scarborough on MSNBC

  52. 52.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    Wow… the Quantum Poltician. You change thier opinion by observing it.

    okay, imagine she’s in a box with a vial of poison and a vial-smashing machine hooked up to a machine that detects the decay of a given atom…

  53. 53.

    Jon H

    March 19, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    “She will direct them to draw up a clear, comprehensive plan for withdrawal that starts removing our troops within 60 days.”

    Heh. This is nicely vague.

    What does the “within 60 days” refer to? When she’ll direct them to draw up a plan?

    And if it really means “starts removing our troops within 60 days”, it is left unspecified, within 60 days of *when*? When she says ‘go’?

    Point being, as written it doesn’t even promise that she’ll do squat any time soon, just that at some point she’ll receive a plan that when she gets around to putting it into motion will *start* removing troops within 60 days.

    That could well be in her second term for all we know.

  54. 54.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    and in both of those years we had perot on the ballot.

    so in order to recreate the same win, we need to get ross perot to run again. quick, to the bat-phone.

  55. 55.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 19, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a hot dog.

    Fixed. ;)

    Hillary is better on the war right now? Fine, wait a week and it will change again. Hillary is running in auto-triangulation mode right now, so it takes her a bit longer to re balance herself.

    I agree with John, fair or not, I do not want to endure 4/8 years of 24/7 Hillary and Bill in the MSM. I have had enough of that to last me a lifetime now. ABC shows that they are ready, willing and more than happy to ‘go there’ whenever the chance presents itself.

  56. 56.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Conservatively Liberal Says:

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a hot dog.

    No! No! No!

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a hot dog a taco.

    Fixt

  57. 57.

    p.lukasiak

    March 19, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    I understand.

    But you seem to be under the impression that the right won’t go after Obama the same way they went after the Clintons.

    The simple fact is that Whitewater was a failed real estate deal — and look what the right did with that. Obama’s real estate deal with Rezko is a success — and took place while it was known that Rezko was under investigation. Imagine what the right’s new Scaife-funded “Illinois Project” will do with that if Obama becomes president.

    But what really scares me is the fact that this country is in really bad shape, and regardless of which Democratic is in the White House, in two years time they are going to get blamed for the impact of what Bush has done, and all the unpopular things they will have to do to fix things. And that means that 1994 is possible all over again — at least in one house of Congress, and that is all the GOP needs to take any right-wing crap it wants and make it a mainstream controversy.

    There is one advantage to Hillary Clinton — the entire universe is tired of Monica and Whitewater, and doesn’t give a damn if she was in the White House when Bill got a blow job or not. There is only so long that the press will flog a dead horse, and the scandals of the Clinton era are not just a dead horse, but a rotting carcus of a dead horse at this point.

    Obama’s “scandals” will be fresh meat… so while I don’t want to go through a replay of the Clinton scandals either, I don’t want to go through whole process again either, which is what we risk if Obama gets into the WH.

  58. 58.

    calipygian

    March 19, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a hot dog a taco.

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a hot dog a fish taco.

    Fixed gooder.

  59. 59.

    Cain

    March 19, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Joe Scarborough on MSNBC

    Then the rat bastard started talking about how Obama threw his white grandmother under a bus. *sigh*

    cain

  60. 60.

    tim

    March 19, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Oh John…who cares what you do or don’t want to go through?

    Five years ago you were shaking your pom pons for Bush’s war. I don’t suppose all the dead Iraqi’s wanted to go through THAT but they did anyway. Compared to that, I’m sure you and Andrew Bareback Sullivan can put up with your desperate emotional angst over the right wing’s obsession with all things Clenis for a few years.

    It’s your brand of irrational Hillary Hatred that almost has me wishing she wins…just to piss you and Andy off.

  61. 61.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Imagine what the right’s new Scaife-funded “Illinois Project” will do with that if Obama becomes president.

    i dunno, i think that the whole whitewater thing would have been a lot more low-key if it had already been dealt with during the primary.

  62. 62.

    Tlaloc

    March 19, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    “Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.”

    Yeah cause the wingnuts will be so repectful if it is Obama. I’m sure there won’t be any lurid photos of him with young female interns sent out (by 527s natch) to intimate ever so subtly that the big bad black man is corruptin our white “wimmins.”

    No, with Obama it’ll be a class act all the way…. really.

    You can’t really believe the sleeze these people voluntarily prodice has ANYTHING at all to do with the person being slimed. Right?

  63. 63.

    Zifnab

    March 19, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    You skipped two election years. The years we nominated A CLINTON!

    We won those two times. WE LOST THE OTHERS!

    Just saying

    I wasn’t really arguing for or against Clinton there. It was more about arguing against Mondale.

    It is, of course, worth noting that Clinton was polling somewhere in the 20s when he started his bid for President. He wasn’t much of a “safe bet” either. And – after seeing the exit polling during the primaries – I seriously doubt that Hillary would lose an election to McCain. But I think Obama would win more downticket races. That, and I like the guy better.

  64. 64.

    Silver Owl

    March 19, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    The public should start a fund so that media executives can get their own blow jobs in the hopes they will pay more attention to their own blow jobs rather than subjecting the public to a decade old blow they have a perverted fetish about.

  65. 65.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    But you seem to be under the impression that the right won’t go after Obama the same way they went after the Clintons.

    You seem to be under the impression that we should sit around and wring our hands about what “the right” might do.

    I say, pick the best candidate, and let the right eat their livers. Their candidate sucks, and I’m not afraid of them.

  66. 66.

    Silver Owl

    March 19, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    I say, pick the best candidate, and let the right eat their livers. Their candidate sucks, and I’m not afraid of them.

    I agree.

  67. 67.

    Zuzu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    In 2000 we nominated a southern farm boy from Tennessee who fought in Vietnam, studied journalism, law, and theology at Vanderbilt, served 24 years in public office as a Congressman then Senator then Vice President, and – while he was there – helped pave the way for the modern internet. We didn’t want to have a beer with him, so he lost.

    Well, actually, more people voted for him than for the other guy, so I guess the “having-a-beer” factor wasn’t it.

    Of course more people in Florida thought they were voting for him as well. And because they were confused by the ballot format…

    Think of it. Under the most generous scenario, GWB won by 500 votes in one state.

    Arggghhh.

  68. 68.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    you seem to be under the impression that the right won’t go after Obama the same way they went after the Clintons.

    Christ, Paul, no point is too obvious that you can’t miss it.

    The Clintons got two terms despite the fact that “the right” was at their throats every frigging day for eight years. Clinton probably could have won a third term if it had been legal.

    “The right” got a good run with the wingnut coalitions and some good strategerizing, and a lot of lies and manipulations. So what? We are MOVING ON, Paul.

    Apparently you are still stuck in a mythical version of the 90’s.

  69. 69.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 19, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    When Bill was with Monica, Hillary was eating pizza a creamsicle.

    Fixed better?

  70. 70.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    It’s your brand of irrational Hillary Hatred that almost has me wishing she wins…just to piss you and Andy off.

    I got threatened with tarring, feathering, banishment and chronic hangnails for saying something somewhat less than that.

  71. 71.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Apparently you are still stuck in a mythical version of the 90’s.

    Apparently you have Clenis envy.

  72. 72.

    Jon H

    March 19, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    “No, with Obama it’ll be a class act all the way…. really.”

    Of course he’ll get slimed.

    I’m counting on it backfiring on the Republicans, because it’ll reveal their worst aspects when the crackers lash out at a basically decent guy. I think it will lead a lot of moderates to go ‘ew’ and turn away from the GOP freakshow.

    I don’t think the same would happen when Hillary gets slimed, because so many people dislike her already.

  73. 73.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I’m counting on it backfiring on the Republicans, because it’ll reveal their worst aspects when the crackers lash out at a basically decent guy.

    Gore is a decent guy.

    Kerry is a decent guy.

  74. 74.

    Jon H

    March 19, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    “Imagine what the right’s new Scaife-funded “Illinois Project” will do with that if Obama becomes president.”

    You mean the Scaife that Bill’s been lunching with recently?

    I doubt a state Senator offers as much rich soil for imputing corruption. And rather than a skeevy law firm, Michelle Obama works for a hospital.

    If there was more than the fuzzy and insubstantial Rezko thing, I think we would have heard something by now.

    Certainly if the Clintons had any dirt on him, they wouldn’t have to resort to kindergarten essays.

  75. 75.

    Jon H

    March 19, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Gore is a decent guy.

    Kerry is a decent guy.

    True, but racism looks a lot uglier than the attacks against Kerry and Gore. That just looked like regular nasty politics.

  76. 76.

    Buck

    March 19, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    If someone or some group bitches and moans because a Clinton ends up back in the White House again, then I’m inclined to wish Hillary luck.

    Fu(k’em. Let the crybabies piss and moan.

  77. 77.

    Tlaloc

    March 19, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Thymezone:
    “You seem to be under the impression that we should sit around and wring our hands about what “the right” might do.”

    Well he might be under that impression because that was the whole point of Cole’s post. Funny that.

    JonH
    “I don’t think the same would happen when Hillary gets slimed, because so many people dislike her already.”

    She isn’t even close to as hated as her detractors pretend. In fact she has had net positives throughout almost the entirety of her two decades of favor polling (see pollster.com).

    On the other hand she has been targetted for every kind of attack imaginable. She’s been accused of sexual perversion, murder, even genocide. Consequently the right really has to make up some intergalactic federation of planets to accuse Hillary of destroying. All the small stuff has been done.

    Obama by comparison is what they call a target rich environment. He’s had nothing thrown at him which means each accusation is fresh and new for the news cycle.

    That worries me.

    Ask yourself this- has the stupid wright brouhaha backfired? No. And that tells you what you need to know about what the general election campaign will be like. One retarded “gotcha” after another.

  78. 78.

    Dug Jay

    March 19, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    Latest polls from Pennsylvania have Hillary blowing Obama into the trash bin of history.

  79. 79.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    That just looked like regular nasty politics.

    Why? Was Karl Rove smiling? Will the GOPers have a “mean look” this time?

  80. 80.

    D-Chance.

    March 19, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    John Cole wrote:
    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    So voters shouldn’t support Hillary because the media will gin up controversy about her business dealings and the people surrounding her; but Obama is acceptable despite the prospect of the media ginning up controversy about his business dealings and the people surrounding him. Yeah, that makes sense.

    BTW, Gallup. The MUP is throwing a shoe…

  81. 81.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Latest polls from Pennsylvania have Hillary blowing Obama into the trash bin of history.

    The visuals require me to go wash out my brain.

  82. 82.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Well he might be under that impression because that was the whole point of Cole’s post. Funny that.

    If I hadn’t been reading this same kind of crap from lukasiak for two months now, I might be tricked into believe that. But I have, and I’m not fooled.

    Lukasiak thinks all this is about what the big scary Right is going to do this fall. I can tell you what they are going to do: Lose. They are set up for a collossal failure, let them fail.

  83. 83.

    zsa

    March 19, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    The headline refers to “blue dress day”.

    That’s just fucking embarrassing … it’s like our national press corps is a bunch of 14-year-olds … immature 14-year-olds who are never, ever going to get laid.

    I guess McCain has a shot after all.

  84. 84.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    I can tell you what they are going to do: Lose. They are set up for a collossal failure, let them fail.

    Pride goeth before a fall.

  85. 85.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    So much for democracy. Big O put the kibosh on a Michigan revote.

  86. 86.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    “It’s clear this (Michigan) election they’re having won’t count for anything.”

    Hillary Clinton, October 2007 (via Keith Olbermann)

  87. 87.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    “Obama will be the popular vote leader, and the delegate vote leader, at the end of the primary process.”

    Chuck Todd, NBC News, 5 mins ago

    Unless the Superdelegates overrule the delegate count and the vote count, then this nomination contest is over.

    What’s next for the blog? Cats? Beer? Tornado cleanup in Atlanta?

  88. 88.

    scrutinizer

    March 19, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    So much for democracy. Big O put the kibosh on a Michigan revote.

    Liar. From an interview today with Anderson Cooper:

    “Sen. Clinton, I have to say on this, has been completely disingenuous. She said when she was still trying to compete with the votes in Iowa and New Hampshire that Michigan and Florida wouldn’t count,” he said.

    “Then, as soon as she got into trouble politically and it looked like she would have no prospects of winning the nomination without having them count, suddenly she’s extraordinarily concerned with the voters there.”

    “I understand the politics of it, but let’s be clear that it’s politics,” he added. “I want the Michigan delegation and the Florida delegation to be seated. And however the Democratic National Committee determines we can get that done, I’m happy to abide by those rules.”

  89. 89.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Kerry and Gore were nice guys, but neither was all that likeable. Gore was still pretty stiff and awkward, not the avuncular professor he’s since mellowed into. Kerry always looked like smiling required a lot of concentration, and probably sounded like he was reading unfamiliar text off a teleprompter when ordering breakfast.

    Both are great Americans and fine candidates, but, no, neither had an unusual amount of charisma, even by the sorry standards of the Senate.

    Obama is in a class with Clinton and Reagan and FDR in that regard. All three enraged their opponents with their ability to magically slough off attacks that would stick to and terribly wound politicians of lesser gifts.

    Charisma has a lot to do with what you can get away with and what you have to respond to. Reagan drew blood with “there you go again.” Had Carter tried that on Reagan, it would never have worked.

  90. 90.

    AkaDad

    March 19, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    “It’s clear this (Michigan) election they’re having won’t count for anything.”

    Hillary now says, if we don’t count Michigan it’s un-American.

  91. 91.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Did any of the records reveal what the meaning of “is” is?

    I was one of the many who thought that the Clintons got a raw deal with the wall-to-wall investigations until Bill managed to give them an irrefutable case and then lie about it in the bargain. Eight years of the Clintons was plenty for me, thank you.

  92. 92.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Word from Paul Starr at Tapped is that the Obama people put the kabosh on Michigan because they were scared.

    Scared to lose to Hillary Clinton. If it’s true then y’all have a leadership problem, ’cause I believe in elections. I’m pissed at Howard Dean over this too.

    I do not lie. I sat right in this chair and watched Obama say it was his right as President to decide when to get out of Iraq in the first 12 months.

    We get out in the first 12 days. You’re president, go skydiving, home, we have totally lost and are going home, it ain’t up to you anymore, nor anyone. Get out. Now.

    I won’t respect anything else. If Obama has changed since then then I need to know and update my perspective.

  93. 93.

    chopper

    March 19, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Latest polls from Pennsylvania have Hillary blowing Obama

    jesus, you’re sick.

  94. 94.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    ‘n just for the record, I voted for Obama in California, you obnoxious creeps. I swear we Deaniacs weren’t so remotely obnoxious as these new messiahs. Go take a qualude, dude.

  95. 95.

    reid

    March 19, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Someone mentioned here recently that the “No Quarter” blog had gone a little nutso. I used to check in there occasionally to get insight on Plamegate and intelligence and military matters. So I went over for a lookie… And good lord, it’s all anti-Obama all the time! What the hell went wrong there?
    No way that’s rational or no-spin….

  96. 96.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Welp, as near as I figure out from the news wires ….

    No non-dysfunctional, legal plan for a Michigan revote is available.

    Clinton goes to Michigan and tries to blame Obama for the lack of a revote.

    All the Hildabots mimic her claims.

    Obama’s campaign rejects the proposed plans as dysfunctional and illegal, and stands pat.

    “Big O rejects Michigan revote” bleats the flock of Hillary sheep.

    Can we get some new trolls? These are worn out.

  97. 97.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    We get out in the first 12 days.

    No, we don’t. Maybe in twelve months, with luck. It takes time to get the people and their equipment out in an orderly fashion. It takes some serious planning to make certain that your last few people don’t get their asses shot clean off. There are three words which will make even the toughest military person turn pale: “Withdrawal under fire.” I want the troops to come home. I want us the fuck out of Iraq. What I don’t want is for more of our people to get killed or wounded because someone is trying to keep a campaign promise.

  98. 98.

    John Cole

    March 19, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Word from Paul Starr at Tapped is that the Obama people put the kabosh on Michigan because they were scared.

    Scared to lose to Hillary Clinton. If it’s true then y’all have a leadership problem, ‘cause I believe in elections. I’m pissed at Howard Dean over this too.

    then your anger is misplaced. The people you should be pissed at are the folks in MI and FL who scheduled the elections with a complete disregard for the DNC rules.

    I dunno how many times we have to go over this. You want to get your panties all in a knot about Obama “disenfranchising” people, then you are dumber than I was when I voted for Bush. Twice. The reason there is a problem with the delegates from MI and FL is not Obama’s fault, and not Dean’s fault.

    And the only reason Hillary gives a shit is because the only thing that saves Hillary is to muddy the waters enough to give the superdelegates enough cover to swing her way. If you can not figure this out on your own, I am sorry you have to come to a Bush voter to have it explained to you. I have a little hands on experience with cynical win at all costs mentality, which is what Hillary is demonstrating. Had she lost the votes in FL and MI to “uncommitted” rather than her impressive 10pt margin, she would not be saying a damned thing right now.

    Yes. Hillary kicked “uncommitted’s” ass. Yes, she now wants those delegates to count. No, I am not persuaded she has a deep concern for the voters of either of those states.

  99. 99.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Raddatz: “Two thirds of Americans say (the war) is not worth fighting.”

    Cheney: “So?”

    — via Countdown, 5 mins ago

    In case you wondered. Cheney loves democracy.

  100. 100.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    I said IF it was true, I don’t take a journalist at his word, even Starr.

    I’m not a sheep, and I’m not a troll. You Obama people are the worst, your leader espouses a new politics and all you are is a bunch of good old fashioned pricks.

    I did vote for Obama. You do need to go take a qualude. Please do so.

  101. 101.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    all you are is a bunch of good old fashioned pricks.

    Flattery will get you nowhere with us, sir.

  102. 102.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    In case you wondered. Cheney loves democracy.

    I hope you realize that you’re just begging to be shot in the face. As far as I know, that old bastard still hasn’t been disarmed.

  103. 103.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    When people break rules it is never an option to take votes away. Never. There has to be some kind of other penalty, and that terrible decision has come home to roost with a nuclear event.

    You’re damn right Hillary doesn’t care about the voters of those states, nor anything I feel passionate about. I didn’t vote for her.

    I pay little attention to these absurd maneuvers and tactics, for the plain faict is the primary process has failed and we are fucked. Somehow we’ll have to get a nominee out of it, and I’ve done my very best not to hurt our own people the whole nightmare.

    We’re still going to win. I’ll be there.

  104. 104.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Cheney’s right. A President can’t let the whims of the public drive his decisions. We had a referendum on Bush’s administration four years ago and we renewed his contract. If it’s the president’s judgement that some public opinion poll or other is wrong, I think it’s his duty to act as he thinks best.

    Yes, getting the hell out of Iraq is a good idea. But the fact that a majority takes that view doesn’t make it so, any more than the majority favoring the war in the first place made it a good idea.

  105. 105.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Senator Clinton says that she and Senator McCain have passed a “Commander-in-Chief test” — not because of the judgments they’ve made, but because of the years they’ve spent in Washington.

    She made a similar argument when she said her vote for war was based on her experience at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

    But here is the stark reality: there is a security gap in this country — a gap between the rhetoric of those who claim to be tough on national security, and the reality of growing insecurity caused by their decisions.

    It is time to have a debate with Senator McCain about the future of our national security. And the way to win that debate and keep America safe is to offer a clear contrast — a clean break from the failed policies and politics of the past.

    Nowhere is that break more badly needed than in Iraq.

    Barack Obama, from an email I just got a few mins ago.

  106. 106.

    John Cole

    March 19, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    You Obama people are the worst, your leader espouses a new politics and all you are is a bunch of good old fashioned pricks.

    As opposed to the Hillary supporters, whose chosen leader promises us more of the same old bullshit, then her supporters come here and elsewhere and deliver it.

    Look, I am not wading through this whole thread to find out how things got so acrimonious, but you are getting caught in the crossfire here. We have endured weeks of MYIQ and P. Lukasiak trolling (at their best moments) and acting like Red State and Powerline (at their worst), running around trashing Obama and spewing crap. People are a little worn out.

    I agree with you, McCain needs to be defeated. But when I see folks like Lanny Davis, another Hillarybot, running around calling Rev. Wright equivalent with the KKK, I want to put all of the Hillary folks underwater and step on their neck until dead.

  107. 107.

    skippy

    March 19, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    where was chelsea?!

    the question is, where were socks and buddy?

  108. 108.

    jake

    March 19, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Hillary Clinton Laura Bush spent the night in the White House on the day her husband had oral sex with Monica Lewinsky Jeff Gannon, and may have actually been there when it happened, according to records of her schedule released today by the National Archives.

    Prepped for the future.

    These dumbshits must be writing for dumbshits who aren’t familiar with the dimensions of the White House. You could have a marathon orgy with the Marine Corps band and every animal in the zoo and no one at the other end would be the wiser.

    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    John wants fresh crap. The sort of crap one gets when there’s a brown guy in the White House. It will be a big, steaming, breath taking, towering over Everest pile of crap. But it will be different.

    Unfortunately, there’s a good chance he’ll have to settle for the same old crap he’s come to know and loathe over the past seven years. But at least this time around it will be packaged in a Depends.

  109. 109.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    What’s getting forgotten here is that MI and FL knew what the penalty would be, and didn’t care.

    They figured it was a good move anyway, and given what they knew at the time, this wasn’t obviously a stupid decision.

    By defying the DNC and jumping the line, they stood to gain a lot of influence and attention. Even stripped of their delegations, they knew that their primaries would be newsworthy, coming as early as they did in the process, and that the results would have an impact on the all-important “momentum.” They knew that the actual delegates were a mere formality, and that the nominee would have the whole thing locked up February anyway, and then their delegations would naturally be restored by the nominee, who wouldn’t want to alienate important states.

    Not how things turned out, of course, but at the time they had every reason to expect it to go this way.

    Now, of course, they’re feeling awfully stupid. The early states cooked up a no-campaigning pledge which killed a lot of the benefit FL and MI hoped to gain. Further, it turns out that the nomination wasn’t settled as early as everyone expected, and had FL and MI simply waited their turn they’d have been kingmakers instead of laughingstocks.

    Anyway, now that it turns out they traded the door with the car behind it for the one with the chimpanzee, now they want a “do over.”

    Snort.

  110. 110.

    Phoebe

    March 19, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Paradox, fwiw I’m trying to be nicer – and it’s hard – because I really do belive in the whole “disagree without being disagreeable” philosophy. We aren’t all horrible, the Obama people. But it’s quite hard. Because I really do also hate Hillary Clinton. I am trying, though, and not just for political reasons, but because I think it’s a better way to go through life for the good of us all.

    Did you see/read Obama’s Iraq speech? Reality Based Community has it, the text anyway.

  111. 111.

    The Other Steve

    March 19, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    I’m not a sheep, and I’m not a troll. You Obama people are the worst, your leader espouses a new politics and all you are is a bunch of good old fashioned pricks.

    The politics we’re talking about is not calling others names when they don’t agree with you.

    Calling us all pricks doesn’t help your candidate.

    I didn’t read the rest of this thread, nor do i really care what the other koolaid drinking hillary supporters have to say.

  112. 112.

    The Other Steve

    March 19, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    What’s getting forgotten here is that MI and FL knew what the penalty would be, and didn’t care.

    They figured it was a good move anyway, and given what they knew at the time, this wasn’t obviously a stupid decision.

    Well at the time they made that choice, they didn’t realize we’d be going into April neck and neck with delegate counts.

    They thought this whole thing was going to be decided on March 4th when one candidate won all the states handidly, and they wanted in on that buzz.

    Then Obama went and upset the inevitability apple cart, and now they feel screwed.

  113. 113.

    Pelikan

    March 19, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Arrrgh! Look, I’m just one guy, but I’ve fucking had it with all of you! As an american voter I will vote for Obama in the Indiana primary and reserve the goddamned right to vote for whoever I feel like in the general!

    In the meantime, you assholes are welcome to keep squabbling amongst yourselves while McCain moves ahead in the polls.

    Maybe I’ll tune back in in November to watch the blame get thrown around….

  114. 114.

    Tsulagi

    March 19, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    You Obama people are the worst, your leader espouses a new politics and all you are is a bunch of good old fashioned pricks.

    I don’t know about “old fashioned.” Unless you’re talking about five years ago. You know, when it was unpatriotic and treasonous to question GWB. During one party I went to around that time given by a couple of defense contractors, expressed my opinion that Bush was a little less than God’s stud on Earth. One stupid fucker actually challenged me to a fight.

    You see that same kind of religious type zeal now among some Obama fanbois. Never knew before how deep that need is among some to have a messiah. Seems it’s on both sides of the aisle.

  115. 115.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    More Obama today:

    Here are the core elements of my strategy to address our critical national security challenges in the 21st century:

    End the war in Iraq, removing our troops at a pace of 1 to 2 combat brigades per month;

    Finally finish the fight against the Taliban, root out al Qaeda and invest in the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan, while making aid to the Pakistani government conditional;

    Act aggressively to stop nuclear proliferation and to secure all loose nuclear materials around the world;

    Double our foreign assistance to cut extreme poverty in half;

    Invest in a clean energy future to wean the U.S. off of foreign oil and to lead the world against the threat of global climate change;

    Rebuild our military capability by increasing the number of soldiers, marines, and special forces troops, and insist on adequate training and time off between deployments;

    Renew American diplomacy by talking to our adversaries as well as our friends; increasing the size of the Foreign Service and the Peace Corps; and creating an America’s Voice Corps.

  116. 116.

    G\

    March 19, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    I just hope Justin Rood didn’t have anything to do with this…

    I think regardless of the nom we’re gonna hafta deal with a lot of bullshit, here is whats up. the american public either rejects or embraces the drudge-fueled springer atrraction.

    and damn i’ll wait and see, but i’ll be saving up my euros just in case.

  117. 117.

    slippy hussein toad

    March 19, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    You skipped two election years. The years we nominated A CLINTON!

    We won those two times. WE LOST THE OTHERS!

    Just saying

    YourIQ . . . during the Clinton years we also lost ground on Democratic control of Congress, and ASSURED the election of a Republican to office. There were in my mind two reasons for this.

    #1, the Clintons and the DLC have always been the most useless liberals ever. They won’t stand up for their own philosophies. They call this “governing from the center,” but what it really is is “caving to Republican talking points out of knock-kneed cowardice.” By refusing to govern as liberals, the Clintons and the DLC didn’t advance any Progressive causes, and by showing their cowardice at every opportunity, they encouraged a culture of shameless bullying that thrives in Wingnutosphere to this day.

    #2, the public, although not really distracted by the shenanigans of the Republican Congress in 1998, seems to have been tired of the Clintons and their own shenanigans by 2000, and by association tired of anyone who had anything to do with them. Bill’s inability to keep his cock in his pants, or at least in the correct woman, crabbed the chances of Democrats for at least several years afterwards and it’s something I can never forgive him for.

    Finally, Mr. IQ, one thing you are very plainly leaving out of your calculations is Ross Perot, whose spoilage of both elections almost certainly put Clinton over the top in an election where he only really got 40-some percent of the vote. Without a real do-over we may never know for sure, but one thing that always hamstrung the Clinton agenda was the fact that he lacked a true mandate.

    In retrospect the Clinton years were aside from being WAY the hell better than Bush I or Bush II, fairly disappointing. The Clintons made out OK, of course, but the Democratic Party withered, and liberalism . . . was something the DLC-driven Clintonistas ran away from as hard and as fast as they could. Helpfully driving the Overton window of hyper-conservatism to the right in the service of their own self-centered agenda.

    So . . . fuck ’em.

  118. 118.

    Tax Analyst

    March 19, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    myiq2xu Says:

    So much for democracy. Big O put the kibosh on a Michigan revote

    What have you got against Oscar Robertson? Christ, the man AVERAGED a Triple-Double (10 or more points, rebounds, and assists) per game for an ENTIRE SEASON – 1961-1962).

  119. 119.

    John S.

    March 19, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    John wants fresh crap. The sort of crap one gets when there’s a brown guy in the White House. It will be a big, steaming, breath taking, towering over Everest pile of crap. But it will be different

    Yeah, because Obama is sure to get a blowjob by an intern and have the Right go apoplectic over it. Or have a lot of useless investigations mounted against him by a non-existent Office of Independent Counsel. It will all be exactly the same.

    Except they’ll really go after him because he’s brown. Yeah, that will play out really well across America. And of course you know all this because you’re the Amazing Fucking Kreskin.

    You heard it here first, folks. Obama is going to end up just like Clinton – so you might as well vote for Clinton!

    The mind reels.

  120. 120.

    Tsulagi

    March 19, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    More Obama today:

    More Obama yesterday:

    “He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he’s crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator,” she said at one point in the interview.

    “What he’s actually said, after meting with the generals and meeting with intelligence professionals, is that you – at best case scenario – will be able to withdraw one to two combat brigades each month. That’s what they’re telling him. He will revisit it when he becomes president,” Power says.

    Sure, the above said by a staffer. Most likely a staffer writes “More Obama today” too.

  121. 121.

    Liberal Masochist

    March 19, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Does anyone find it ironic that the Hilbots are saying the old right wing trashing of the Clintons is dead (and that’s one reason why she is better than Obama since he is “target rich”) and the FIRST thing the media focused on when her schedules were released today was her whereabouts when Bill was getting a hummer???

    Agree with John C., TZ and the rest – let’s move forward. My itchy trigger finger is close to firing off another hundo for Obama,,,

  122. 122.

    t jasper parnell

    March 19, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Hillary has some splaining to do re her religious “family.”

    Senator Brownback understood the temptation. He used to hate Clinton so much, he told us, that the hate hurt. Then came the Clintons’ 1994 National Prayer Breakfast appearance with Mother Teresa, who upbraided the couple for their pro-choice views. Bill made no attempt to conceal his anger, but Hillary took it and smiled. Brownback remembers thinking, “Now, there’s gotta be a great lesson here.” He didn’t know what it was until Clinton got to the Senate and joined him in supporting DeLay’s Day of Reconciliation resolution following the 2000 election, a proposal described by its backers as a call to “pray for our leaders.” Now, Brownback considers Clinton “a beautiful child of the living God.”

  123. 123.

    Krista

    March 19, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    I did vote for Obama. You do need to go take a qualude. Please do so.

    May I have some of yours? You appear to have a ready supply, if your writing style is any indication.

    By the way. This is the third item down, not on CNN, not on some political blog, but on Yahoo! (which a couple of people will likely see):

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton now argues that the North American Free Trade Agreement needs to be renegotiated, but newly released records showed on Wednesday she promoted its passage.

    Hillary herself:

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I had my doubts about it way back at the beginning of Bill’s term, but I was working on health care. But David Gergen and others have apparently remembered a lot of the meetings we were in where I raised a lot of questions.

    I don’t know — perhaps I’m being obtuse, but if you have doubts about something, I can see not actively opposing it, if you know it’s going to pass anyway and don’t feel that it’s really your place, as First Lady, to object to it. But actively promoting something about which you allegedly had doubts?

    Something just seems a little…off.

  124. 124.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Damn. I know it was off-topic, but gimme some love here. I start a post with “Cheney’s right” and go on to defend his view, entirely without sarcasm or irony. And I get no traction at all? I mean, I’m right, and obviously so, but still I’d hoped to get some kind of reaction out of that.

  125. 125.

    neal peart

    March 19, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    i feel you, yo.

  126. 126.

    libarbarian

    March 19, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    1. If there is not going to be a re-vote anyway, what purpose does it serve to make a point of blaming Obama for the lack of a re-vote?

    Can it help her in any way or does it just hurt him?

    2.

    “He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he’s crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator,” she said at one point in the interview.

    “What he’s actually said, after meting with the generals and meeting with intelligence professionals, is that you – at best case scenario – will be able to withdraw one to two combat brigades each month. That’s what they’re telling him. He will revisit it when he becomes president,” Power says.

    Sure, the above said by a staffer. Most likely a staffer writes “More Obama today” too.

    What is your point?

  127. 127.

    Krista

    March 19, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Damn. I know it was off-topic, but gimme some love here. I start a post with “Cheney’s right” and go on to defend his view, entirely without sarcasm or irony.

    I think we’re all just hoping that if we ignore him, he might go away. But I’ll bite. No, politicians shouldn’t necessarily govern by polls. However, they should take the will of the electorate into account when making their decisions. Their decision may not be what the people necessarily want, but the latter’s opinion should at least be considered.

    Cheney’s answer shows he really does not give a sweet damn what the people want. That is not the attitude of a leader, it’s the attitude of a despot.

  128. 128.

    Laertes

    March 19, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    “Can it help her in any way or does it just hurt him?”

    She sees this as a zero-sum game. To hurt him is to help her.

    This doesn’t end when the nomination is settled, either. Even after Obama clinches it, she needs him to lose in November.

  129. 129.

    4tehlulz

    March 19, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    I mean, I’m right, and obviously so, but still I’d hoped to get some kind of reaction out of that.

    THAT POST WAS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD

  130. 130.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 19, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Yes. Hillary kicked “uncommitted’s” ass.

    She’s following the Raoul Castro plan for getting the nod.

  131. 131.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Sure, the above said by a staffer. Most likely a staffer writes “More Obama today” too.

    Would you prefer to see more news film of helicopters being pushed off of the flight decks of American aircraft carriers? A safe and orderly withdrawal will take months under the best conditions. We have to move over 130,000 people out of Iraq. They have to be fed clothed, and protected while they’re moving out. We have a finite number of ships and planes and conditions in Iraq’s only deep water port are shaky at best. That means a seriously long truck ride to a secure port of embarkation. Simple logistics demand that there can be no quick exit from Iraq – even if the first step is to withdraw the troops to a neighboring country. I sure as hell want the next president, whoever he or she is, to consult with the military and with the intelligence people to plan our withdrawal because as much as I want our people out of Iraq, I don’t want a rout. I’m praying that the Iraqis will stop attacking our troops when they become convinced that America is leaving, as did the Afghans when Russia left their country. But, if they don’t then we definitely need more thoughtful planning to get out than was devoted to getting us in.

  132. 132.

    Tax Analyst

    March 19, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Krista Says:
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton now argues that the North American Free Trade Agreement needs to be renegotiated, but newly released records showed on Wednesday she promoted its passage.

    Hillary herself:

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I had my doubts about it way back at the beginning of Bill’s term, but I was working on health care. But David Gergen and others have apparently remembered a lot of the meetings we were in where I raised a lot of questions.

    I don’t know—perhaps I’m being obtuse, but if you have doubts about something, I can see not actively opposing it, if you know it’s going to pass anyway and don’t feel that it’s really your place, as First Lady, to object to it. But actively promoting something about which you allegedly had doubts?

    Well, that’s the problem with their “parsing the language” strategy. They THINK it worked for Bill during his terms, but the real story is that most people just didn’t care whether he got a blow job in the oval office or not…as long as things seemed to be going OK. The only problem I had with it was that a lot of his political capital also ended up dripping down Monica’s dress. It was tacky and it was dumb…a Frat Boy antic. The Republican frenzy and attempted impeachment was idiotic, so most people generally shrugged, said “whatever” and supported Clinton through it. But NOBODY fell for that “what is ‘is’ crap”…it was a joke, and a foolish one, at that.

    When HRC does the same (parsing, not exec. office BJ’s) and expects us to buy into that I find myself extremely disappointed. Obama is the much better choice – for the Party and for America (and likely for the world). I’ll vote for her if she gets the nomination because McCain would be a continuation of the current 8-yr Dubyah jihad to turn us into a second-tier power with a third-world standard of living.

  133. 133.

    paradox

    March 19, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    See, this is why I stayed out of it until now, call me a troll and a sheep and you’ll get called a prick.

    Have fun. I’ll be in Texas, John, please join us.

    It’s an incredible mess and I want nothing more of it. Nothing. I got edgy on the Obama people today ’cause I like Daily Kos, I am a serious old-timer there, and they’ve over-run the place and driven people away. It’s terrible.

    After a very good speech it’s as if Jesus Christ has arrived, they’ve lost the ability to reason, IT’S ALL OVER.

    Right. What a nightmare.

  134. 134.

    Tsulagi

    March 19, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    What is your point?

    Apparently too subtle for you to discern. Let me help. TZ blockquoted part of an email apparently from MUP central that Obama would withdraw 1 to 2 brigades a month from Iraq.

    Earlier this month, a senior O staffer said Obama is not obligated to honor anything he says during his campaign regarding Iraq. More Obama Today as opposed to More Obama Yesterday…two weeks ago. Does that help?

    A safe and orderly withdrawal will take months under the best conditions.

    Gee, never thought of that, Dennis. Thanks. In the uplifting spirit of hope and change, I’ll avoid any hint of snark that might jeopardize a unity moment.

  135. 135.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 19, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    But, if they don’t then we definitely need more thoughtful planning to get out than was devoted to getting us in.

    From what I’ve read an orderly withdrawal would take, at a minimum, 90 days, and would more than likely take 180 days. That’s the best case scenario.

  136. 136.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    Gee, never thought of that, Dennis. Thanks. In the uplifting spirit of hope and change, I’ll avoid any hint of snark that might jeopardize a unity moment.

    Thank you for that. I was born and raised in the military. I served voluntarily in time of war because we have a family tradition of service that goes back to Concord Bridge – said tradition being broken now because my son is autistic and, even if he wasn’t, I would not send him to serve in this cluster. I was not trying to be snarky or to make fun of you or anyone else (For once). I’m saying that anyone who promises a rapid withdrawal from Iraq, whether it’s Clinton or Obama, is lying. It just takes time, more than you or I or the troops would like.
    For what it’s worth, I spent 365 days in another dirty little war knowing to the day how many days I had left before I could go home. If I could do one thing in this world I would have the troops home, safe and with their loved ones the day before yesterday.

  137. 137.

    Pb

    March 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    The Hillary Clinton-John McCain Iraq withdrawl plan: start removing troops within 60 days, finish removing troops after 100 years.

  138. 138.

    Tsulagi

    March 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    Thank you for that.

    Okay, there might have been a little snark in my comment.

    For what it’s worth, I spent 365 days in another dirty little war

    Hey, you might have run into my grandfather. He was a CSM during that little dustup. Served in three wars, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. Left blood in all three. He was a stud. Me, I just had some brass oak leaf jewelry to adorn my Class As.

  139. 139.

    ThymeZone

    March 19, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    a senior O staffer said Obama is not obligated to honor anything he says during his campaign regarding Iraq

    He’s right, and I would say the same thing.

    No president should be making troop movements based on campaign statements. The first priority is the safety of the troops and Americans on the ground. Nobody except the actual president, in real time, looking at the actual situation and with the real briefings up to date, can make calls like that. Two brigades a month is a reasonable goal, but it’s not a campaign promise, it’s a reasonable goal.

    Hillary Clinton is not Margaret Thatcher. She has no credibility with me on these matters. McCain appears to be senile, or impetuous, or ill informed, or all three.

    Obama is making a reasonable assertion, I find him to be reasonable. Ergo, I choose him.

  140. 140.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 19, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    I got edgy on the Obama people today ‘cause I like Daily Kos, I am a serious old-timer there, and they’ve over-run the place and driven people away. It’s terrible.

    I read Markos response to the ‘strike’, and he could care less if the Hillary people want to leave and give up on defending her. He said that she is exactly what he thinks is wrong with the Democratic party, and I agree with him to a degree. If Hillary supporters are going to claim that Obama supporters are driving them off of a blog (or blogs), all I have to say is call 1-800-waa-aaaa for a waaaambulance. Comparing what is said over at Kos to blogs like Hillaryis44, it is clear that as bad as the Obamabots are, the Clintonistas are 10 times worse.

    At least Obama people at Kos sound like progressives/liberals. Hillaryis44 people are sounding like right wing nutjobs with their praising Faux News, BillO, Hannity and so on. They cheer every time the right wing blogs go after Obama. They have pet names like ‘Obambi’, ‘Satan’, ‘Barry’, ‘Hussein Obama’ and on and on, all of them intended as insults.

    Bitch, moan and groan all you want about the rabid Obamabot fans, you won’t get any traction with me. The worst Obama fan is far better than the best Clintonista. And I can differentiate between the honest Clinton supporter and the what I call the Clintonistas. Hillary has real supporters who want to play straight, and some of them have become dismayed at the track her campaign has taken.

    Anyone who can’t stand back and really take a serious look at the contrasts between the two candidates needs to have their head examined. As similar as their positions are, there differences between the mindsets of Obama and Clinton are like comparing apples and oranges. I can see that either one of them winning the GE will be the equivalent of a toss of the dice, but I believe that Obama is a far better toss of the dice.

    If he wins the primary and loses to McCain in the general, this country deserves McCain. I think he will win against McCain, but that is only my opinion as of this moment.

  141. 141.

    Tsulagi

    March 19, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    He’s right, and I would say the same thing.

    Good to hear it, TZ. Got it, thanks for clearing it up Obama can’t make any decisions or commitments until he’s actually president. Anything he says now is just happy dust.

    Um, has Obama himself limited that just to Iraq, or does it extend to all issues? But if he says it doesn’t now, then when he’s sitting in the Oval Office it may?

    Vote Obama! He transcends his own words!

  142. 142.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    He was a CSM during that little dustup. Served in three wars, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. Left blood in all three.

    I bow deeply. My dad was the same. Joined the Navy in ’38 and was aboard the USS Utah at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th, 1941. Fought throughout the Pacific campaign until a kamikaze blew up under the turret for which he was gun captain. Stayed in and was present at the Inchon landing. Finished his career floating supplies up the Mekong River.
    I don’t know whether I met your grandfather. I was in the Delta, at a spot called Binh Thuy in ’71-’72. If your GF was there then I probably met him; there weren’t that many of us by that time.

  143. 143.

    Bey

    March 19, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Tsulagi,

    Now you’re just being silly. Surely you grant that there might be strategic plans Obama is not yet privvy to that might mitigate his schedule for bringing the troops home?

  144. 144.

    John S.

    March 19, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Surely you grant that there might be strategic plans Obama is not yet privvy to that might mitigate his schedule for bringing the troops home?

    Or maybe he just likes empty campaign promises that will never come to fruition.

  145. 145.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 19, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    Or maybe he just likes empty campaign promises that will never come to fruition.

    Or we might have a president who isn’t afraid to seek the advice of those who know more of the details than he does about a particular situation.

  146. 146.

    Chris Johnson

    March 19, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    If you can not figure this out on your own, I am sorry you have to come to a Bush voter to have it explained to you.

    You know, it’s almost worth it just so you can have access to that level of unmitigated BURN :D

    proper burnination, that is.

    Also- Dennis-SGMM is right on. You can say, “Ha, I will have the troops out in ten minutes! No, five!” all you want but he’s right that any logistics guy would go very pale. You’re describing a rout, fleeing under fire. Not even a surrender- that would take longer! Attempting to get out of Iraq super quick would be a rout and exceptionally dangerous. It looks like Obama asked somebody, “how long would it take to get everybody out of there responsibly without endangering them or the Iraqis unnecessarily?” and got a straight answer from someone who would be able to do it.

    I’m fed up with bullshit. Give me more Obama answers, and I will be patient enough to listen to explanations of why that’s the best we can do. I am getting to trust that he’s not primarily trying to con me, and every non-sexy answer just tends to confirm this observation.

  147. 147.

    Pb

    March 19, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Don’t worry, folks. Hillary Clinton will stick to her new plan (whatever it is) no matter what. Surely that’s way more reasonable than wasting time to check in with what’s actually going on after she’s elected first, or–god forbid–revise her plans after she’s in office. I’m sure she’ll stolidly stick by her plan to come up with a plan within 60 days to start getting troops out of Iraq at some point without actually citing an end date, period. You can count on her for that.

  148. 148.

    Martin

    March 19, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Or maybe he just likes empty campaign promises that will never come to fruition.

    Or he is cognizant of the fact that he has limited information being a Senator and isn’t going to lie to us for votes. Shit, Bush has all the information and refuses to use it. Can we agree that we want the precise opposite of Bush when it comes to a CinC?

  149. 149.

    skyler

    March 19, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    oh thank god, the wsj is there for us, pinpointing hilarys devious maneuvering during vince fosters brutal silencing

  150. 150.

    Martin

    March 19, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    I should clarify…

    I think Hillary will probably come forward with an acceptable plan. I don’t accept that she has the same aspiration on this than McCain. But we’re all smart enough here to realize what a candidate can promise and what they can’t. Obama is respectful enough of us to concede that he can’t promise this thing. Hillary keeps dodging around that detail like pretty much everyone that has come before her.

    Again, it’s not that Hillary is doing anything less than Bill or Bush or anyone prior. It’s just that Obama is doing more even though it gives someone a soundbite moment to attack him. But absolutes are a staple of politics even though many people are smart enough to know that there are almost no absolutes.

  151. 151.

    myiq2xu

    March 19, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    John Cole Says:

    Wah wah waah wah MYIQ and P. Lukasiak wah waah waaaaaaah.

    Jeebus.

  152. 152.

    Soylent Green

    March 19, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    The worst Obama fan is far better than the best Clintonista.

    C’mon now. That’s way over the top. We are all on the same team, the one that wants to take back our country. If like me you’ve been inspired by what Obama has been saying about bringing the nation together, you’ve got a really warped way of showing it. Another endless cycle of hatred and divisiveness is what we need to put behind us. That was the message of Obama’s recent speech.

    For her use of the Rovian playbook this year, I think Hillary deserves our contempt. But this relentless spewing of vitriol at fellow Democrats needs to stop. I don’t think that people who believe Hillary to be the superior candidate are wacky compared to the really wacky things that many people believe. It’s just their opinion. I think they are wrong, and I hope they can be persuaded to change their minds, but nobody is persuaded by abuse.

  153. 153.

    TenguPhule

    March 20, 2008 at 12:52 am

    Is it September Yet? Is it September Yet?
    Is it September Yet?
    Is it September Yet?
    Is it September Yet?
    Is it September Yet?
    Is it September Yet?

  154. 154.

    Ninerdave

    March 20, 2008 at 1:01 am

    It’s an incredible mess and I want nothing more of it. Nothing. I got edgy on the Obama people today ‘cause I like Daily Kos, I am a serious old-timer there, and they’ve over-run the place and driven people away. It’s terrible.

    Then as a long timer you should know that this shit isn’t new and it happens from time to time. I’ve been reading DK on and off for a long time as well and “wars” break out.

    Frankly outside of a few select posters I find the site unreadable and use it more as a liberal news aggregator.

  155. 155.

    AnneLaurie

    March 20, 2008 at 1:09 am

    This would have been the year to go with a safe choice, such as Al Gore or Mark Warner, and select a woman or a black for vp. The Dems are trying to push the political conversation forward and you have to admire them for that, but the country is just not ready to go there.
    Heck, Zifnab did well to trash this but he didn’t go back far enough. Some of us remember 1972, when the “new” post-Watergate DNC told Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm that it was “too soon” to mess around with the Rich White Male presidential presumption. (Of course, Abzug was also told that being Jewish was an insuperable barrier, and Chisholm that choosing a Black woman would be a deadly insult to the Angry Black Man coalition.) So the Sensible Dems found a nice clean articulate White Male war hero named McGovern, and George picked a VP candidate who’d have been the first next-door-to-the-Oval-Office-occupant whose mental-health issues had been treated. And even those BJ readers who weren’t alive in 1972 know how good *that* choice worked out…

    “The country” will never be ready to Go There until it is taken there. That’s why our Presidential campaigns, ugly and ridiculous though they be, are not run by the rules used on American Idol.

  156. 156.

    KT

    March 20, 2008 at 1:12 am

    Soylent green: I think they are wrong, and I hope they can be persuaded to change their minds, but nobody is persuaded by abuse.

    “The Rovian playbook” is generally attack your opponents most significant strength and turn it into a weakness (see Kerry, John) While I think Hillary’s campaign has been mostly flailing about with irrelevant crap for the last month, I haven’t seen them try to define Obama’s strengths as weaknesses. She’s just running a hard fought campaign.

    As to the Obama’s insurmountable delegate lead, it’s really not so impossible. Hillary could actually beat Obama in pledged delegates if she won the remaining contests 65/35. That would wipe out his current lead and giving her a couple extra going into the convention. If she was ahead on pledged delegates, the supers would definitely swing her way. And that is precisely what they should do for the pledged delegate leader.

    Now is any of that likely? Probably not, but this consensus that it’s mathematically impossible for her to win without the supers overturning the will of the people, is flat out wrong. It is very possible, it’s just not probable.

    As to changing our minds, never fear. I think a good many of us Hillary supporters have come to terms with the fact that she is basically done and are trying to, if not put on the Obama party hats, at least acknowledge that he’s a good man and has a lot of integrity. Perhaps a little too much to govern effectively, but he’s so much better than McCain, we won’t hesitate to vote for him come November.

  157. 157.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 1:15 am

    Some of us remember 1972, when the “new” post-Watergate DNC told Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm that it was “too soon” to mess around with the Rich White Male presidential presumption. (Of course, Abzug was also told that being Jewish was an insuperable barrier, and Chisholm that choosing a Black woman would be a deadly insult to the Angry Black Man coalition.)

    This country will never be ready to elect as President a woman who wears ugly hats.

  158. 158.

    Ninerdave

    March 20, 2008 at 1:18 am

    are not run by the rules used on American Idol.

    Well Bush was the “I’d like to have a Beer with him” candidate in 2000…

  159. 159.

    Randolph Fritz

    March 20, 2008 at 2:09 am

    I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    You do understand that the radical right is going to work really hard discovering new crap just for your displeasure, right?

  160. 160.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 4:59 am

    Fair or unfair, this is one reason I do not want Hillary to win. I simply don’t want to go through all this crap again. I just don’t.

    As opposed to the Hillary supporters, whose chosen leader promises us more of the same old bullshit, then her supporters come here and elsewhere and deliver it.

    Look, I am not wading through this whole thread to find out how things got so acrimonious, but you are getting caught in the crossfire here. We have endured weeks of MYIQ and P. Lukasiak trolling (at their best moments) and acting like Red State and Powerline (at their worst), running around trashing Obama and spewing crap. People are a little worn out.

    I agree with you, McCain needs to be defeated. But when I see folks like Lanny Davis, another Hillarybot, running around calling Rev. Wright equivalent with the KKK, I want to put all of the Hillary folks underwater and step on their neck until dead.

    How time flies:

    Questioning Patriotism
    By: John Cole April 28, 2004 at 4:21 pm

    Leave it to the Democrats to have no shame. This is just outrageous:

    Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg on Wednesday called Vice President Dick Cheney the “lead chickenhawk’’ in an escalating war of words over the Vietnam-era military service of President Bush, Democratic rival John Kerry and the vice president.

    snip

    And people wonder why I am not a Democrat. Do these people have any shame? Kerry is playing the victim card for personal attacks that have never happened, while his party chairman and his colleagues are launching the most vile personal attacks on the President and Vice-Presdient that I have ever seen or heard.

    *** Update ***

    The usual suspects are proud of the ‘chickenhawk’ slurs, and are actually using it for fund-raising. At least I am safe in the knowledge that with the new standard set by the filth that makes up the ‘moderates’ in the Democratic party, there is nothing I can say that would be out of bounds in today’s political discourse.

    Filed under: Outrage

    Where were MYIQ and P. Lukasiak back in 2004?

    We were DFH Democrats.

    So now John Cole joins our party and has the chutzpah to call us trolls and compare us to his old wingnut buddies.

    Why? Because we don’t agree with him.

    Because we don’t want to STFU and defer to the opinion of someone who has been consistently wrong in the past.

    Boo fucking Hoo!

  161. 161.

    AnneLaurie

    March 20, 2008 at 5:42 am

    This country will never be ready to elect as President a woman who wears ugly hats.

    You’ve seen what Dubya looks like in a Stetson, right? As in so many other (far more serious) areas, Commander Codpiece has moved the ‘Ugly Hat’ qualification so low that Bella Abzug could step right over it… and she’s been dead for years.

  162. 162.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 6:01 am

    You’ve seen what Dubya looks like in a Stetson, right?

    That’s not the Stetson’s fault.

  163. 163.

    over_educated

    March 20, 2008 at 6:22 am

    We were DFH Democrats.

    So now John Cole joins our party and has the chutzpah to call us trolls and compare us to his old wingnut buddies.

    Why? Because we don’t agree with him.

    Because we don’t want to STFU and defer to the opinion of someone who has been consistently wrong in the past.

    Boo fucking Hoo!We were DFH Democrats.

    So now John Cole joins our party and has the chutzpah to call us trolls and compare us to his old wingnut buddies.

    Why? Because we don’t agree with him.

    Because we don’t want to STFU and defer to the opinion of someone who has been consistently wrong in the past.

    Boo fucking Hoo!

    AS someone who has beena democrat his entire adult life (20 years) I allow me to add my voice to John’s: would you please STFU.

  164. 164.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 6:38 am

    AS someone who has beena democrat his entire adult life (20 years) I allow me to add my voice to John’s: would you please STFU.

    I have the right to remain silent, but not the ability.

  165. 165.

    zack

    March 20, 2008 at 6:55 am

    Because we don’t want to STFU and defer to the opinion of someone who has been consistently wrong in the past.

    The question is not who was wrong in the past; it’s who is right now?

    I’ve also been a Democrat for over twenty years and I come here because John Cole is saying things that need to be said, and saying them in a way that few others are capable of. That’s why I don’t want him to STFU.

    John Edwards was wrong on the war in Iraq when it started, he realized it, admitted it, and then proceeded to work hard to correct that mistake by opposing it.

    But, to listen to the holier-than-thou commenters here who have never been wrong about anything, he no longer has a right to comment on politics and should STFU. Political mistakes must not be tolerated, once you make one, you can no longer comment on politics.

    That’s a ludicrous position – and one born out of desperation.

  166. 166.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 7:00 am

    I’ve also been a Democrat for over twenty years and I come here because John Cole is saying things that need to be said, and saying them in a way that few others are capable of. That’s why I don’t want him to STFU.

    John Edwards was wrong on the war in Iraq when it started, he realized it, admitted it, and then proceeded to work hard to correct that mistake by opposing it.

    But, to listen to the holier-than-thou commenters here who have never been wrong about anything, he no longer has a right to comment on politics and should STFU. Political mistakes must not be tolerated, once you make one, you can no longer comment on politics.

    That’s a ludicrous position – and one born out of desperation.

    Where did I say John Cole should STFU?

  167. 167.

    John S.

    March 20, 2008 at 7:05 am

    myiq½xu Says:

    My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard, and their like
    “It’s better than yours”, damn right it’s better than yours,
    I can teach you, but I have to charge!

    Damn, dude, you sure do like your milkshake.

  168. 168.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 7:07 am

    One of my role models has always been the kid who said “The Emperor has no clothes!”

    If I knew how to STFU I would be working in a corporation and making a lot more money.

    Back in 2003 when the media and most of the country were swooning over Commander Codpiece, I was saying
    “The clothes have no Emperor!”

  169. 169.

    John S.

    March 20, 2008 at 7:11 am

    Ok, I had to turn off my milkshake filter to see what the hubbub was about, and of course it’s the usual:

    So now John Cole joins our party

    Interesting that myiq½xu thinks that he and p.lukasiak somehow own the Democratic party. I guess having entitlement issues is something they share with Clinton. No wonder they like her so much.

  170. 170.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 8:07 am

    How does Obama’s speech on Tuesday compare to this?:

    “I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus. But I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude. … He didn’t just cross the line. He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women — who I hope will be athletes — that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It’s one that I’m not interested in supporting.”

    I guess “spiritual advisor” isn’t a staff position.

  171. 171.

    Cyrus

    March 20, 2008 at 8:09 am

    myiq2xu Says:
    Experience? Who do ya think was running the country while Monica was blowing on Bill’s sexaphone?

    This country will never be ready to elect as President a woman who wears ugly hats.

    LMAO. I need to stop pretending to be cynical and misanthropic, because apparently I like myiq2xu more than anyone else here. These were great.

    That being said, myiq and over_educated, quoting John Cole from 2004 seems like a low blow, considering how he apologizes for something or other from his Republican days about twice a week.

  172. 172.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 8:18 am

    That being said, myiq and over_educated, quoting John Cole from 2004 seems like a low blow, considering how he apologizes for something or other from his Republican days about twice a week.

    Look at his reaction when someone told the truth about Bush/Cheney and compare that to a smear against Hillary.

    I understand he wants Obama to win, but Hillary is still one of ours.

    Assume she becomes the nominee and it happens again. Will he sack up and show some outrage or will he whine “make her go away?”

  173. 173.

    Hawise

    March 20, 2008 at 8:24 am

    With all the shitty decisions that are going to be waiting for the next President, whoever they are, is going to be hated anyway. Hillary has already cleared that hurdle. Besides right at the beginning of her run she said that the first thing that she would do is have the Pentagon make up a plan for a pullout since they say that they don’t have one. The current President hasn’t asked them to draw one up. I suspect that there is one in a drawer marked ‘super-secret don’t let Dick Cheney see these’ but they still have to give the appearance of making one from scratch.

    Why is Hilary the only one on the shortlist of potential Democrats who actually ran? Could it be because anyone with any real executive experience doesn’t want the job right now? Pick a candidate, get the electoral college votes all lined up and stop kvetching over sex in the WH, it is the least of the skeevy coming our way.

  174. 174.

    over_educated

    March 20, 2008 at 8:25 am

    That being said, myiq and over_educated, quoting John Cole from 2004 seems like a low blow, considering how he apologizes for something or other from his Republican days about twice a week.

    Apparently my inability to blockquote correctly gave you the wrong impression. What I was trying to get accross is that it is ridiculuous to blame John for past references by claiming ownership of the democratic party.

    And that myiq should STFU.

  175. 175.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 8:30 am

    That being said, myiq and over_educated, quoting John Cole from 2004 seems like a low blow, considering how he apologizes for something or other from his Republican days about twice a week.

    BTW – John Cole called me out BY NAME in a argument I wasn’t even involved in.

    I’ll sit down while I wait for an apology.

  176. 176.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 8:38 am

    And that myiq should STFU.

    The only times I have told people to STFU is when they attack or insult me personally.

    I don’t believe I have ever said that to someone just because I didn’t agree with their opinion. Freedom of speech means putting up with differing opinions.

    IMHO – Saying STFU because you disagree means “I got nothing.”

    “America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, ’cause it’s gonna put up a fight. It’s gonna say “You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.”

  177. 177.

    Zifnab

    March 20, 2008 at 8:38 am

    I guess “spiritual advisor” isn’t a staff position.

    Between Spitzer, Vitter, Foley, and Clinton, I think the term “staff position” has taken on a totally different meaning.

  178. 178.

    over_educated

    March 20, 2008 at 9:04 am

    IMHO – Saying STFU because you disagree means “I got nothing.”

    In this case it means I have neither the time or energy to keep up with your constant tomfoolery. Seriously, are you getting paid for this? At least 25% of the thread is you or p.luk throwing up whatever pro-Clinton argument anti-Obama argument is the flava at the time and claiming it is some grand victory when most of the people here think it is just pedantic crap that ignores the actual issues. It’s becoming tiresome.

  179. 179.

    Shinobi

    March 20, 2008 at 9:10 am

    I’m going to have to agree with OverEducated on the whole tiresome thing. I really wanted to read this thread and have it be interesting. But now I’m just wondering where exactly they are serving the “Make you stupid for Hillary” coolaid, so I can be sure to avoid it.

    Also, I really don’t want the first woman president to be famous because her husband got a BJ in the oval office. I really don’t. I may not have a choice, but it is not my preference.

  180. 180.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 9:20 am

    over_educated Says:

    Waah wah waaah wah waaaaah!

    Somebody call Whine-one-one, we need a WAHmbulance!

    Serious dude, if you don’t like what I have to say, don’t fucking read my comments.

  181. 181.

    The Other Steve

    March 20, 2008 at 9:36 am

    NYTimes is finally being honest, notes Clinton has little chance of gaining nomination.

  182. 182.

    Soylent Green

    March 20, 2008 at 9:39 am

    This has been my go-to blog for two years because of what John Cole did. Sure he said some stupid things back when he was taking the GOP stupid pills. Then he had the courage and insight to clear that crap out of out his system and join the forces of reason. The only people I want to tell to STFU are the self-righteous assholes who delight in reminding him about his former views and rub his face in it.

    Do the math. The GE will be closer than anyone would like to see. To be assured of victory, we need to get the so-called independents, we need to get a fair number of Republicans willing to stop being Republicans, and Dems need to kiss and make up and support their nominee. You can’t win hearts and minds with nothing but shock and awe.

    Which is not to say that flaming asshole behavior on the intertubes should go unremarked. Just try to be civil about it and not a playground bully all the time.

    So the Sensible Dems found a nice clean articulate White Male war hero named McGovern

    That was the first election I could vote in. McGovern wasn’t picked because he was the “safe” white male but because he was going to get us the fuck out of Vietnam. That was all that mattered in those days. Humphrey in 1968 lacked the balls to make that his platform, so after four years of Nixon’s “peace with honor and a lot of bombs from B-52s,” we found a guy who did so unequivocally.

  183. 183.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 9:47 am

    McGovern wasn’t picked because he was the “safe” white male but because he was going to get us the fuck out of Vietnam. That was all that mattered in those days. Humphrey in 1968 lacked the balls to make that his platform, so after four years of Nixon’s “peace with honor and a lot of bombs from B-52s,” we found a guy who did so unequivocally.

    McGovern was picked due in part to Nixon’s “ratfuckers” who worked to sabotage other Democratic candidates during the primaries.

    Guess where Karl Rove and Lee Atwater got their start in politics?

  184. 184.

    John S.

    March 20, 2008 at 9:48 am

    NYTimes is finally being honest, notes Clinton has little chance of gaining nomination.

    Her last hope is adding Wright to her kitchen sink.

  185. 185.

    Ed Drone

    March 20, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!
    Is it September Yet?
    NO!

    There, fixed it for you.

    Someone upthread said that if Christ himself was our candidate, he would be swiftboated by the right-whingers, and he’s right. We’d see endless re-runs of this, for sure:

    Damn you rich! You already have your compensation.

    Damn you who are well-fed! You will know hunger.

    Damn you who laugh now! You will weep and grieve.

    Damn you when everybody speaks well of you!

    That’s from the Scholars Translation of Luke 6:24-26 (this quote courtesy of Daily Kos
    And the YouTube snippet of this long-haired, bearded and sandaled hippy would be run on constant loop all over ABC, Fox Noise, and probably even MSNBC (though Keith would probably “worst person” the rest of them for it).

    Ed

  186. 186.

    The Other Steve

    March 20, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Do the math. The GE will be closer than anyone would like to see. To be assured of victory, we need to get the so-called independents, we need to get a fair number of Republicans willing to stop being Republicans, and Dems need to kiss and make up and support their nominee. You can’t win hearts and minds with nothing but shock and awe.

    I think there is a strong chance, that if Obama is the nominee, there will be an attempt to find a reasonable Republican for the VP slot. Possibly someone no longer in government, or retiring. Hagel is a possibility. Or maybe Danforth. Such a move would cement a new majority for a generation. We’ll see.

  187. 187.

    Ed Drone

    March 20, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Dang, my link to Kos, http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/16/17571/2310, didn’t work.

    Ed

  188. 188.

    over_educated

    March 20, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Somebody call Whine-one-one, we need a WAHmbulance!

    Serious dude, if you don’t like what I have to say, don’t fucking read my comments.

    You see, I’m torn here. One of the things I love about this blog is that John will not ban folks simply because they disagree with him. on the other hand it makes it difficult for him to discipline disruptive posters.

    This is way beyond me not wanting to listen to you. Dude you are posting a quarter of the posts on every thread. You are trying to dominate the discussion by brute force.

    While I am irate at your stance on Hillary (who, by the way, I would still vote for if she legitimately won the primary), I am annoyed that every discussion thread I go into turns into a giant flame war, where no ones Clinton or Obama posts can go unresponded (at length) by you.

    You need to turn the dial back from 11 to about a 6.

  189. 189.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 10:11 am

    I am annoyed that every discussion thread I go into turns into a giant flame war, where no ones Clinton or Obama posts can go unresponded (at length) by you.

    Pardon me, but read the fucking thread. I got flamed by John Cole for an argument I wasn’t even involved with, and in fact I was asleep at the time.

    I get flamed on threads I haven’t even made comments on. I get insulted, attacked and told to STFU from total strangers like you. I never fire the first shot.

  190. 190.

    Crust

    March 20, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Fair or unfair…

    Unfair. Highly unfair. Still rational, though. Sadly, sometimes life isn’t fair.

  191. 191.

    orogeny

    March 20, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Just found this on Barack Obama’s Senate Web site:

    Obama acknowledges, with no small irony, that he benefits from his race.

    If he were white, he once bluntly noted, he would simply be one of nine freshmen senators, almost certainly without a multimillion-dollar book deal and a shred of celebrity. Or would he have been elected at all?

    So, what was so terrible about what Gerry Ferraro said?

  192. 192.

    frankdawg81

    March 20, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I too am sick to the teeth with all the old BS made up about the Clintons. That is not a reason however to not support her. The same Republicans and fucktards (excuse me, reporters) that made up and inflated the Clinton sins will work over time to stop that uppity nig . . . ni . . KNEE-grow. (sorry, I stole that bit from Dick Gregory)

    If Hillary has recently changed her position to ‘get out right away’ that is a MAJOR shift on her part (not that BHO is 100% immediate either damn it). I don’t believe it, sorry. If for no other reason than the fucktards would be raking her over the coals long and loud for being 1) a flip-flopper and 2) weak on terrorism.

  193. 193.

    Laertes

    March 20, 2008 at 10:33 am

    myiq, there’s no point denying that you’re frequently a troll, generally an asshole, and always an attention whore.

    If any thread isn’t primarily about you, you move with all speed to make it so.

    You refuse to make remarks of any substance. You make silly accusations just to watch people expend more effort refuting them than you had to spend to make them. You delight in childish word games with the mere aim of frustrating people who are foolish enough to engage you.

    This is all classic troll behavior.

    I wonder if you could demonstrate some more for us?

  194. 194.

    myiq2xu

    March 20, 2008 at 11:05 am

    You refuse to make remarks of any substance. You make silly accusations just to watch people expend more effort refuting them than you had to spend to make them. You delight in childish word games with the mere aim of frustrating people who are foolish enough to engage you.

    This is all classic troll behavior.

    Project much?

  195. 195.

    John S.

    March 20, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    I wonder if you could demonstrate some more for us?

    Have no fear, your wish will be granted.

  196. 196.

    binzinerator

    March 20, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Or maybe Danforth.

    Danforth Quayle? Hell yeah! Woohoo!

  197. 197.

    Mike in SLO

    March 20, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Well I stopped by after avoiding this place for the past few weeks, but I’m sorry I did.

    John, p.luk and miq2 may be Hilbots, but they have been the only dissenting voices around here in quite a while. I guess everyone just loves the echo chamber. It used to be a joy to see the variety of civil and opposing viewpoints in BJ’s comment thread. Now it’s just painful. Buh-bye!

  198. 198.

    Dave_Violence

    March 20, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Hillary Clinton spent the night in the White House on the day her husband had oral sex with Monica Lewinsky, and may have actually been there when it happened, according to records of her schedule released today by the National Archives.

    Dude, if Hillary! was there, watching, I’m voting for her. Maybe she filmed it?!

  199. 199.

    PaulB

    March 20, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    I never fire the first shot.

    LOL… I wonder if he has actually managed to fool himself that badly?

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