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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / Four More Years of Bullshit

Four More Years of Bullshit

by John Cole|  March 24, 20082:27 pm| 348 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, Democratic Stupidity

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The walkback on the Bosnia trip BS begins:

The Clinton campaign says Senator Hillary Clinton may have “misspoke” recently when she said she had to evade sniper fire when she was visiting Bosnia in 1996 as first lady.

She has been using the episode as an example of her foreign policy bona fides.

Roll the tapes:

Your witness, defense:

Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: “It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.”

Asked at a later point in the call to clarify his comment, Mr. Wolfson said that news accounts at the time made clear that the area in which she was landing was “a potential combat zone and was hazardous.”

Four more years of defining “is” is not something we need. Just please make it all stop.

*** Update ***

The chief success of the Clinton campaign the past few months is to make many people who just a few months ago defended Hillary agree with Jules Crittendon:

It’s called Planet Clinton. Politico goes on to talk about elephants in the room but neglects to mention the biggest elephant of all. The Clintons themselves, both of them, who will fight to the bitter end, because all those negative numbers are still numbers they can turn around. Doesn’t matter what they trample in the process. Politico talks to insiders, declares the bell has rung in the mind of notoriously fickle American voters, but misses the most fundamental rule of American sports and politics, rule No. 1 in the Clinton playbook: It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. Far be it from me to defend my own wretched profession, but as collectively and individually chowderheaded as the media can be, the media also knows that rule. The media also knows a good trainwreck when it sees one, and knows no one can pry their eyes off it.

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348Comments

  1. 1.

    zzyzx

    March 24, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    I’m trying to figure out how you accidentally tell a detailed story.

    Twice.

    Misspeaking is saying something like, “The GDP was down 5 points in the 3rd quarter,” when you meant to say that it was up 5 points. Misspeaking is forgetting someone’s name and saying someone else’s. This is what most people would call a lie.

    The simple follow up is, “What did Clinton intend to say when she ‘misspoke?'” and see if it both matches the facts and could somehow have accidentally happened.

  2. 2.

    cleek

    March 24, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

  3. 3.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Okay, clearly she meant that she used Combat roach control products when she was living in the White House.

    Can we all please just LEAVE HILLARY ALONE? LEAVE HER ALONE?

    Geez a whiz.

  4. 4.

    Jake

    March 24, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I know there’s this notion that the Clintons are accomplished liars, but how is it that they seem so BAD at it? I mean, you can’t say you “certainly remember” a trip and then backtrack by claiming you mis-spoke.

    Let’s be perfectly clear here. Where this leads is that Sinbad has a better memory than the Senator from NY. Fucking Sinbad.

  5. 5.

    Delia

    March 24, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    At least she wasn’t dressed up like a fighter pilot when she told the story. At least she wasn’t wearing that ghastly yellow jacket with the black trim. I don’t know what else to say. I notice that Larry Johnson who used to run a decent blog about military affairs before he turned into a hillbot ran this story about how her escape from near death in Bosnia must have been on some other trip to Bosnia and then goes off to blame Obama for all the ills of the universe. Fortunately for Larry, he’s run this story off the front page with a lot of other stories blaming Obama for all the ills of the universe.

  6. 6.

    Studly Pantload

    March 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    This is excellent news! ! ! For snipers! ! !

  7. 7.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    The last Democratic liar we elected lost Congress and teed-up Bush – no slouch in the lying department himself.

    Have sixteen years of liars in the White House convinced Clinton that we want another one?

  8. 8.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Have sixteen years of liars in the White House convinced Clinton that we want another one?

    Yes!

    SA2SQ, The Presidential Edition.

  9. 9.

    Doug

    March 24, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    I’m not sure how, exactly, but this post is nothing more than a misogynistic rant.

  10. 10.

    Brachiator

    March 24, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    I am beginning to get the feeling that the media is keeping Senator Clinton’s campaign alive just for the sheer joy of catching her in lie after lie.

    The Clintons should also have a little conversation with Al Gore about the impact of the Internets on modern politics. Not only can your lie be revealed in a matter of nano-seconds, but you can be YouTubed and Facebooked even faster than you can swiftboat your opponents.

    And the saddest thing of all is that they don’t realize how quickly they have moved from being objects of nostalgic affection to objects of ridicule.

    So, Senator Clinton is not only “mis-speaking,” apparently she cannot even read her own published biography (with a nod to Andrew Sullivan):

    Just for the record – her recent speech:

    “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

    And from her own book:

    “Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes…”

    The video of her arrival in Tuzla. No sniper fire. No running with heads down. A clear greeting ceremony with the acting Bosnian president. Chelsea is also walking, smiling, easily walking toward the entourage. Last week: “There was no greeting ceremony, and basically we were told to run to our cars.” Whan asked about Sinbad’s recollection that the only thing he was scared of was the food, Clinton said,” Well, he’s a comedian.” He’s not the only one.

  11. 11.

    The Other Steve

    March 24, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    I really don’t care for this story, or line of attack on Hillary. Ok, so she kind of exagerrates. Who doesn’t?

  12. 12.

    BH Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    No. She kinda LIED.

  13. 13.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Ok, so she kind of exagerrates. Who doesn’t?

    Hopefully, our next president. There’s a difference between exaggerating and flat out lying repeatedly. Is Clinton exaggerating or is she misspeaking about health care and getting us out of Iraq?

  14. 14.

    Doug

    March 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    If she was talking about how many shots of vodka she and McCain downed in Estonia, I wouldn’t mind a little embellishment.

    But this is the creation of entirely new “facts,” and it is done in a way that is central to her contention about why she is qualified for the Presidency and Barack Obama is not.

    Embellishments about inconsequential details = not so bad.
    Manufactured stories about central campaign issues = bad.

  15. 15.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    I really don’t care for this story, or line of attack on Hillary. Ok, so she kind of exagerrates. Who doesn’t?

    If it were just a case of exaggeration, it would be one thing. But it was not, it is not. She lied about this to boost her own national security/foreign policy bona fides at the same time she was denigrating the other Democratic candidate AND praising John McCain.

    It isn’t just the lying, it is the fratricide that goes with it. Althoguh for me, lying is enough after the last 8 years.

  16. 16.

    zzyzx

    March 24, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    I actually don’t have a problem with TOS’s, “Who cares?” attitude. If we hadn’t just spent the last two weeks parsing out of context sermons by Obama’s pastor at the urging of Clinton’s supporters, I’d feel even more sympathy. If they were important then because it would look bad in 527 ads, wouldn’t this have the same problem?

  17. 17.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Ok, so she kind of exagerrates. Who doesn’t?

    Well, it’s clear that you don’t — rather, you merely twist and distort, as the word is spelled “exaggerate,” with two g’s and one r.

    By the way, TOS, the nation appreciates your continuing service.

  18. 18.

    Liberal Masochist

    March 24, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Boy o boy, I thought for sure that given the conflicting stories and the video eveidence to the contrary, that she HAD to be referring to different trip to Bosnia.

    I can’t wait for Ms. Automatic Delegate (myiq) to chime in on this one.

  19. 19.

    Sam

    March 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    The secondary success of the Clinton campaign is forcing their supporters online to cite various members of the VRWC to sustain their talking points. Taylor Marsh linkpage:

    Daily Telegraph:
    http://taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#2155

    Novak:
    http://taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#2153

    Some super wingnut website:
    http://taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#2127

    Mona Charen:
    http://taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#2116

    Krauthammer:
    http://taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#2078

    It goes on and on.

  20. 20.

    Studly Pantload

    March 24, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    I’m not sure how, exactly, but this post is nothing more than a misogynistic rant.

    It’s plainly there; John clearly quotes from a blog entry that uses the pronouns “she” and “her,” and, thence by implication, also contains the b-word, the c-word, and gratuitous references to breasts.

  21. 21.

    Desmond

    March 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Not only did she lie repeatedly in the same paragraph, but her campaign’s defense that at least she WAS going into a combat zone, is also clearly false. She landed in what was probably the safest place in all of Bosnia, the middle of a US airbase! And this was in spring 1996, and if I recall correctly, the war was OVER at that point.

    Honestly, I don’t know why the media isn’t hammering her over this bullshit.

  22. 22.

    mrmobi

    March 24, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Can we all please just LEAVE HILLARY ALONE? LEAVE HER ALONE?

    TZ, have you seen the video of Lewis Black doing a “LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!” about Mike Huckabee! It’s seriously funny, and includes actual snot and stuff.

  23. 23.

    Jake

    March 24, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Liar, liar, pants suit on fire!

    And really, if dodging bullets makes one fit to occupy the Oval Office, allow me to present … my mom. She got caught up in one of the many Totally Inexplicable Angry Negro uprisings that made the late 60’s so much fun.

    Shit, anyone who lives in a rough neighborhood or any area where hunting is popular has probably come under fire more often than Hillary.

  24. 24.

    Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    I just can’t help but wonder why she told such an outlandish story. She had to have known that anybody with the least little bit of inclination could have proven that the claims were pure and simple bullshit. Why set herself up that way? She had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

    Has she lost her mind?

  25. 25.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    So that’s how you cross the Commander-in-Chief threshold: one lie at a time.

  26. 26.

    zzyzx

    March 24, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    The real problem that Clinton might have with this is that it’s funny. People are going to want to mock this and that might give it longer legs than if she made a bigger mistake about a more boring topic.

  27. 27.

    jenniebee

    March 24, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Why is it that every time I see a new “zomg Hillary’s really done it now!” post I think: OK, this is it. This is going to be the irrefutable thing, that she’s really done something venal and underhanded and it’s finally going to justify everything that everybody’s been saying about her. And then I won’t see the vitriol and the spittle and keep thinking that it’s overdone and baseless and can only be explained by soft-headedness and media manipulation of a subconscious, reflexive misogyny. Because the idea that generally reasonable people who I generally, reasonably like go off their rockers when confronted with a smart, confident, powerful woman bothers me, and I’d like to not have that as my reality.

    That’s what I think and I follow the link, expecting to find, at last, the clincher – the undeniable evidence that they all just sensed something that went under my radar and I find… she said there were snipers in Bosnia when, in fact, there were snipers in Bosnia, and Sinbad doesn’t remember the security briefing that was given the First Lady and somehow everybody thinks that he should and would have gotten a security briefing if a security briefing had happened, because when you’re on a USO detail, man, you’ve got access. And twelve years later, she remembers the situation as being more dangerous than it looks in a CBS puff piece. Ergo, she’s a congenital liar.

    Goddamn, she’s like the walking embodiment of Rudyard Kipling’s IF. Next up: Hillary’s always acting like her shit don’t stink, but a former Capitol janitor begs to differ. Does this shed new light on Whitewater? News at 11.

  28. 28.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Nah, Dennis, it’s really a very simple misunderstanding. She and McCain read the the description and thought it read “to cross the *lie* which is the Commander in Chief Threshold you must…” and said “Hey, lying comes naturally to me…”

  29. 29.

    cleek

    March 24, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    People are going to want to mock this and that might give it longer legs than if she made a bigger mistake about a more boring topic.

    think SNL will do anything on it ?

    me neither

  30. 30.

    Delia

    March 24, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Today: lies about Bosnia.

    Tomorrow: lies about Iran.

    Doesn’t sound promising.

  31. 31.

    Desmond

    March 24, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    she said there were snipers in Bosnia when, in fact, there were snipers in Bosnia,

    No, she said she was under fire from snipers at the Tuzla airport, not that “there were snipers in Bosnia”.

    And twelve years later, she remembers the situation as being more dangerous than it looks in a CBS puff piece. Ergo, she’s a congenital liar.

    No, she’s a liar because she said she was under sniper fire when she wasn’t, because she said the greeting ceremony was cancelled when it wasn’t, and because she said they had to run with their heads down to their vehicles when they actually didn’t. Hence, liar.

  32. 32.

    Doug

    March 24, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    And, clearly, the greeting and casual stroll on the tarmac strongly suggests Clinton was speaking accurately about no greeting and making a run for the cars.

    Shit, anyone who lives in a rough neighborhood or any area where hunting is popular has probably come under fire more often than Hillary.

    Maybe that guy the Vice President shot in the face should run for President.

  33. 33.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Tomorrow: lies about Iran.

    Umm..and that’s going to be different from today’s lies about Iran how?

  34. 34.

    TheFountainHead

    March 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Maybe that guy the Vice President shot in the face should run for President.

    Why? He didn’t fucking duck fast enough. You can’t even get elected mayor with those kinds of reflexes!

  35. 35.

    Studly Pantload

    March 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Ergo, she’s a congenital liar.

    With God as my witness, had anyone here who’s previously questioned the Clinton camp’s tactics used the word “congenital,” the Marshies would be all over that post like sharks on chum.

  36. 36.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Tomorrow: lies about Iran.

    Stories about how they’re training Al Qaeda and sending them to Iraq?

    Heh.

  37. 37.

    BH Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Has she lost her mind? -Buck

    No more so than the loyalists that defend her.

    So, to answer your question, yes… she’s lost her mind.

  38. 38.

    dslak

    March 24, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    I believe it was Rush Limbaugh who popularized the description of the Clintons as “congenital liars.” I don’t know if he came up with it, but I suspect he probably got it from some other party.

  39. 39.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Umm..and that’s going to be different from today’s lies about Iran how?

    Those rockets blew crescent-shaped holes in the ground. That’s the indisputable signature of Iranian ordnance.

  40. 40.

    Jen

    March 24, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    I’m not sure how, exactly, but this post is nothing more than a misogynistic rant.

    I’m not sure, either, but evidently it’s “media manipulation of a subconscious, reflexive misogyny.”

    Good grief. It isn’t that she’s “smart, confident, and powerful.” It really is all the other stuff. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Condi Rice, it’s o.k. to hate her politics and the actions. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Margaret Thatcher, it’s o.k. to hate her politics and actions. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Liddy Dole (ok, she’s not actually that smart) it’s o.k. to hate that she is now permanently entrenched in my state like a cancer because John Edwards had to make quixotic bids for president and Easley’s too lazy to run.

    Obama has lots of female support. He has lots of support from men who would love to see a female president. He has the support of my mother and mother-in-law both, who have known a greater degree of misogyny than most. My mother was told she didn’t need a college education and her parents weren’t going to pay for it as they did my uncles, and my mother-in-law was not allowed to go to UNC as she wanted because it didn’t freakin’ accept women. They both went to college anyway and are amazing, smart, confident women in their ’60s. And take it for just two examples if you like, but there is nothing softly or hardly misogynistic about the fact that they do not want to vote for Hillary Clinton.

    /end rant

  41. 41.

    4tehlulz

    March 24, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Stories about how they’re training Al Qaeda and sending them to Iraq?

    Moar liek Iranian missiles are raining down on the Green Zone.

    Please keep up.

  42. 42.

    jenniebee

    March 24, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    No, she’s a liar because she said she was under sniper fire when she wasn’t, because she said the greeting ceremony was cancelled when it wasn’t, and because she said they had to run with their heads down to their vehicles when they actually didn’t. Hence, liar.

    This is the same kind of rationale that said “Al Gore has gone on many flights over disaster zones, and he’s gone on many flights over disaster zones with the head of FEMA, but the particular time he’s referring to here as viewing a site with the head of FEMA he was actually viewing the site alone. Hence, liar.”

    Her campaign shouldn’t have run that commercial without doing better vetting and fact-checking, but plenty of people, plenty of times, make false statements without intending to tell a lie. Shoot, most people have false memories of things that they dreamed which are just close enough to real events that the dream supplants the true memory. To actually be a lie, there would have to be some motivation, some reasonable expectation that the false statement wouldn’t be contradicted, or else some reason that she wouldn’t care if it was contradicted or not. Some other person, in some other context might be justified in that expectation, but not a presidential candidate and doubly not Hillary Clinton.

  43. 43.

    Larime The Gimp

    March 24, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Funny how Myiq and P Luk are curiously nowhere to be seen on this one.

    Or not.

  44. 44.

    Ninerdave

    March 24, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Where are pluk and myiq to defend Hillary against this obvious misogynistic attack?

  45. 45.

    TheFountainHead

    March 24, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Her campaign shouldn’t have run that commercial without doing better vetting and fact-checking, but plenty of people, plenty of times, make false statements without intending to tell a lie. Shoot, most people have false memories of things that they dreamed which are just close enough to real events that the dream supplants the true memory. To actually be a lie, there would have to be some motivation, some reasonable expectation that the false statement wouldn’t be contradicted, or else some reason that she wouldn’t care if it was contradicted or not. Some other person, in some other context might be justified in that expectation, but not a presidential candidate and doubly not Hillary Clinton.

    You give me the giggles. Seriously.

    Motivation: Convince people to vote for you based on this supposed foreign policy bona fide.

    Reasonable expectation: None.

    Reason to not care: You’re losing.

    Two out of three is enough for me, and enough, it seems, for Hillary.

  46. 46.

    D-Chance.

    March 24, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Delia Says:

    At least she wasn’t dressed up like a fighter pilot when she told the story. At least she wasn’t wearing that ghastly yellow jacket with the black trim. I don’t know what else to say. I notice that Larry Johnson who used to run a decent blog…

    I tried to read that blog, “tried” being the operative word. Was it my crappy computer, or is the comment thread set up so that every reply gets smaller and smaller? Who designed that site, an optometrist with an eye chart fetish?

  47. 47.

    Ninerdave

    March 24, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    You know I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I live in California a state that’s going to go to whomever the Democrat nominee is, and a while back I decided that if Hillary pulls this thing out somehow, I’m writing in Obama’s name. But, if I lived in a contested state, would I do the same?

    Increasingly I think the answer is yes.

    The Dems are going to increase their majorities in both houses, blunting Bush version 2’s power. The Dems have also shown signs lately that they are growin a spine. And really how much more damage can McCain do that hasn’t already been done. If anything, it’s just four more years before we can start unwinding this mess.

  48. 48.

    Jen

    March 24, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Where are pluk and myiq to defend Hillary against this obvious misogynistic attack?

    Well, this wasn’t really their thing, to be fair. Myiq came out to lob pointless insults about MUPpets without offering any substantive rebuttal or argument on any topic whatsoever, and p-luk generally came to cite data or information as evidence of something quite different from what, to the untrained mind, you would normally think the information would suggest. So with that in mind, I offer:

    “God forbid anyone should ever point out to MUPpets that Obama lied about hearing crazy stuff from his preacher! Also there was that “typical white person” line! But don’t say anything about the MUP or you’re a troll!”

    “The real story here is that Hillary Clinton is going to come through this even stronger for having weathered the attacks. She can survive the Republican attack machine and nothing will ever bring her down. But attacks such as these on Obama are fatal wounds. If Obama had said such a thing, he would be out of the race tomorrow because he does not know how to handle the fallout. Fortunately, Hillary is an expert at doublespeak and dissembling.”

  49. 49.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Who designed that site, an optometrist with an eye chart fetish?

    Where do you think you are delivering cutting quips like that? The Balloon Juice comments section, or something?

  50. 50.

    The Other Steve

    March 24, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    If it were just a case of exaggeration, it would be one thing. But it was not, it is not. She lied about this to boost her own national security/foreign policy bona fides at the same time she was denigrating the other Democratic candidate AND praising John McCain.

    Yeah, ok, maybe the timing. Although i don’t see how being under threat of sniper fire gives you national security creds.

    But then the bar has been set low on that one for a long time.

  51. 51.

    Ninerdave

    March 24, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Thanks Jen, this thread wasn’t the same without some bullshit excuse making.

  52. 52.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Jen, you have a bright career ahead of you as a -soulless monster- attorney.

  53. 53.

    jenniebee

    March 24, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Good grief. It isn’t that she’s “smart, confident, and powerful.” It really is all the other stuff. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Condi Rice, it’s o.k. to hate her politics and the actions. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Margaret Thatcher, it’s o.k. to hate her politics and actions. If you’re smart, confident, powerful Liddy Dole (ok, she’s not actually that smart) it’s o.k. to hate that she is now permanently entrenched in my state like a cancer

    And it’s ok to hate Hillary’s politics and actions, but that’s not what I see aimed at Hillary. What I see is a strikingly anti-feminist backlash that gives conservative women a pass – much the same as John Derbyshire doesn’t think we’re ready for a non-white president unless he’s a conservative non-white on accounta the liberal kind are too uppity.

    She has been the premier what-passes-for-liberal female personality in the country for sixteen years, and she has been steadily, relentlessly demonized in the popular imagination that entire time. Don’t like the way she’s run her campaign, fine. I don’t like the way she’s run her campaign (and I didn’t much care for Obama’s early attack-from-the-right strategy either, btw). But to deny that sexism is at play in the public imagination of her is to close your eyes to reality. When the businessmen’s lunch at the next table last Friday speculated over their egg drop soup that she’s fighting so hard this time because she knows it’s her last chance to run because “the hag factor is already setting in,” (no, I don’t habitually listen in to other people’s conversations in restaurants, they were just being that loud) and when 45% of registered voters doubt that their friends would vote for a woman for president, one must acknowledge that her gender is very likely a key factor in negative perceptions about her.

  54. 54.

    4tehlulz

    March 24, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Oh wow. Fifty-some-odd responses and no p.luk. or myiq?

    Maybe they have Internet problems. That can be a problem, sometimes.

  55. 55.

    Civilized Crank

    March 24, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Some alert the Clinton machine… these Hillbots are defective.

  56. 56.

    Ninerdave

    March 24, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    But to deny that sexism is at play in the public imagination of her is to close your eyes to reality. When the businessmen’s lunch at the next table last Friday speculated over their egg drop soup that she’s fighting so hard this time because she knows it’s her last chance to run because “the hag factor is already setting in,” (no, I don’t habitually listen in to other people’s conversations in restaurants, they were just being that loud) and when 45% of registered voters doubt that their friends would vote for a woman for president, one must acknowledge that her gender is very likely a key factor in negative perceptions about her.

    Insert black in there have you have Obama’s situation. There are people in this country who won’t vote for anything but a white man. It’s not unique to Hillary.

  57. 57.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    When I see myself referred to four times in a thread I haven’t even commented in I know my hard work has been worthwhile.

    He he he

  58. 58.

    dslak

    March 24, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    When I see myself referred to four times in a thread I haven’t even commented in I know my hard work has been worthwhile.

    It can’t be denied that you’re in demand. If only commenting on blogs paid . . .

  59. 59.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    It can’t be denied that you’re in demand. If only commenting on blogs paid . . .

    My reward will be in Heaven.

  60. 60.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    Larry Johnson who used to run a decent blog

    For those of you that don’t know: Larry Johnson runs a blog named No Quarter and is an ex-CIA agent and reformed gooper—only (as opposed to our own John Cole) the IQ transplant seems to have been rejected by the host and he’s reverted back to lizard brain mode.
    The site used to be a great foreign affairs/intelligence issues blog, but has now devolved into a echo chamber of MUP hate and endless accusations (complete w/ links to any winger site or gooper comment that supports the charges) of misfeasance, malfeasance, blackfeasance, and, well, just about any feasance that is bad and evil.

  61. 61.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    The question is not “why” did she lie. That’s obvious.
    The questions remains: if she is so willing to lie about something so trivial, when will she do it yet again on a matter of much more importance?
    The answer…Hillary has about as much substance (truth, credibility) as the Bush/Cheney junta she wishes to replace.

  62. 62.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    blackfeasance

    racist

  63. 63.

    BH Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    So many nuts with God-complexes running around…

  64. 64.

    jenniebee

    March 24, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Motivation: Convince people to vote for you based on this supposed foreign policy bona fide.

    Reasonable expectation: None.

    Reason to not care: You’re losing.

    Seriously, keep thinking that one through. There was no math going into the Texas primary where Obama drops out after March 4, so even a lie just before the March 4 primary hurts more than helps her if she gets caught anytime after that all the way up to convention. And the chance of her getting caught in pretty short order in any statement that isn’t perfect and having that reported as “zomg we caught Hillary” is about 100%

    So what’s giving you the giggles is that I don’t see that she’s irrational, dopey and given to wild Hail Mary passes, that being the simplest theory to explain the errors in her memory of events twelve years past. You’re right, that is funny.

  65. 65.

    Desmond

    March 24, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    So what’s giving you the giggles is that I don’t see that she’s irrational, dopey and given to wild Hail Mary passes, that being the simplest theory to explain the errors in her memory of events twelve years past.

    I think calling it “errors in her memory of events” is very charitable. There is a HUGE difference between getting shot at and, well, NOT getting shot at. You’d think that if she remembered ANYTHING about her visit, it would be whether or not she was in real physical danger.

  66. 66.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    A repost (with slight edits) from yesterday, because I’m a shameless whore:

    As bullets clawed the air around us and screams echoed down the rubble-strewn tarmac, I felt almost peaceful.

    It was a simple mission, they had told me – get in, shake a few hands and mouth a few platitudes, get out. Simple. Yeah.

    Things had started going wrong while we were still in the air and only gotten worse from there. So here we were, pinned down, choking on the acrid tang of cordite and the heady scent of human blood. The mission was even simpler now: survive. Whatever the cost, survive.

    There was a grunt and a clatter of equipment as Sinbad threw himself down at my side. Sweat glistened on his bare arms, and I could see tendons contracting and relaxing as he squeezed off bursts from his M14. The motion was hypnotic, like a snake about to strike. Perhaps, when all this was over-

    No. Concentrate. Focus on the mission. Survive.

    A shout from my left drew my head around. Sheryl Crow, guitar still strapped to her back, had taken cover behind a haphazard pile of decaying corpses. Her hair, once lustrous, now lank and greasy, was held back from her eyes by a dirty red headband. Her slim nostrils flared in the dirt-smeared oval of her face, seeking air free of the funeral taint shrouding the airfield. Still, I saw a fierce exultation in her expression that I knew mirrored my own.

    Her lithe, nimble fingers stroked the top of an M67 frag grenade, strumming a chord of impending doom. With one quick, economical movement, she plucked the pin free and sent the deadly payload sailing toward the ridge concealing our enemies. My eyes traced the arc, willing it to fly true, to rain death on-

    “There!” Sinbad shouted. “The convoy!”

    I wrenched my gaze in the direction he was pointing. The boom of the grenade registered only faintly, suddenly unimportant. Thirty yards dead ahead was the real target: the armored convoy, offering safety, shelter, survival. If we could reach it.

    “Follow me!” Sinbad roared, levering himself to his feet. As I prepared to follow, a high-pitched whine arrowed across my eardrums and warm, sticky rain splashed my face.

    I forced myself to look, already knowing what I would see. The big man lay there, crumpled, the left side of his head a nightmare maze of blood, brains and tight curls of yellowish-orange hair.

    Time to mourn later. Survive.

    I juked to my left, darting and weaving, somehow making it to Sheryl’s position. Her eyes were wide, shock and fear clouding their emerald depths. “Is he-”

    “Gone,” I snapped. “We have to move. Now.”

    For a moment I wondered if I would have to leave her behind, but then her jaw tightened and she nodded sharply. “Stay behind me,” she said with a brief squeeze of my hand, then she was up and running, moving like a deer.

    I followed, matching her as best I could with the mindless insect hum of lead bees filling my ears and the cracked tarmac clutching at my heels. We ran, time stretching, flattening, the convoy impossibly distant, a cruel mirage, too far, too far . . .

    And then, somehow, we were almost there. We had made it, we were going to –

    A flat crack and the mournful twang of a guitar string. Sheryl fell, scarlet-splashed splinters from the shattered guitar seeming to hang in the air.

    I stopped. Men were flooding out of the brush and streaming around the cars. One approached me, smirking, rifle held casually across his body, smoke still rising from the barrel.

    “Every day a winding road,” he said in heavily accented English, shrugging a shoulder toward Sheryl’s body. He stepped closer, almost close enough to touch. “End of road for her today. And you.”

    Still smirking, he began to raise the rifle. I lunged forward, freed the ka-bar concealed under my pantsuit, and buried it to the hilt in his chest. He grunted, stiffened, and then slid backwards, the knife making a greedy slurping sound as it pulled free.

    The other rebels froze, momentarily stunned. There were a lot of them – too many, surely – but it didn’t matter. One day, I knew, I would be telling this story to rapt audiences as I made my inevitable march to the Presidency. Would this ragged group of smelly goatfuckers be the ones to stop me? Would they?

    I raised the blade to my lips, licked it clean, and began to laugh.

    Survive. Whatever the cost, survive.

    -From The War Journals of Hillary Clinton, Vol. 1

  67. 67.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    what i like most is how wolfson didn’t say that she misspoke, he said that it was possible that she misspoke.

    like ‘there exists a chance that she misspoke’. similar to the always-popular ‘as far as i know’ dodge.

  68. 68.

    zzyzx

    March 24, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    I think it’s another example of not getting how the Internet has changed things. I don’t think she figured that she could get caught.

  69. 69.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    because I’m a shameless whore

    Yet, you are a handsome, well marbled piece of meat.

  70. 70.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    I think it’s another example of not getting how the Internet has changed things.

    Blue Dress, meet the internets.

  71. 71.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    and BTW, tBone, that was the awesomest thing i’ve ever read.

  72. 72.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Hmmmm?:

    For several years, Barack Obama claimed he was opposed to gay marriage because of his religious faith. He belongs to a denomination that supports gay marriage, but no television host or reporter ever questioned him about this inconsistency. Now that political correspondents have learned more about Obama’s religion, he has stopped making this claim.

    yadda yadda yadda

  73. 73.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    For several years, Barack Obama claimed he was opposed to gay marriage because of his religious faith. He belongs to a denomination that supports gay marriage, but no television host or reporter ever questioned him about this inconsistency. Now that political correspondents have learned more about Obama’s religion, he has stopped making this claim.

    All right, here’s the truth: Obama is opposed to gay marriage because he has had to dodge the bullets of gay snipers.

  74. 74.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    because I’m a shameless whore

    Yet, you are a handsome, well marbled piece of meat.

    I appreciate the compliment, but I’m pretty sure you can’t afford me, TZ.

  75. 75.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    myiq,
    Change the subject off Hilliar to Barack? LMFAO!

  76. 76.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    SF’s mayor remembers:

    But just four years ago, current Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is said to have declined to have his picture taken in San Francisco with Newsom, who was then at the center of a national uproar over his decision to allow same-sex marriage in San Francisco.

    “I gave a fundraiser, at his (Obama’s) request at the Waterfront restaurant,” said former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. “And he said to me, he would really appreciate it if he didn’t get his photo taken with my mayor. He said he would really not like to have his picture taken with Gavin.”

    And don’t forget Donnie McClurkin

  77. 77.

    BH Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    Everyone around here knows that if a snapping turtle bites you it won’t let go until it thunders.

    Just seemed kinda fitting.

  78. 78.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    I appreciate the compliment, but I’m pretty sure you can’t afford me, TZ.

    Let’s just relax and get a spice rub.

  79. 79.

    jenniebee

    March 24, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Insert black in there have you have Obama’s situation. There are people in this country who won’t vote for anything but a white man. It’s not unique to Hillary.

    I think it’s fantastic that Obama’s running. It’s historic, and I think it says great things about the Democratic party that we’re not doing the same calculus that denied Doug Wilder a shot at the nomination in ’92. (You want to blush for your party and deeply question the whole NH choosing candidates so you don’t have to thing, Wilder’s 1992 campaign would do it. In polls and focus groups, people loved him – a runaway favorite – right up to the moment they realized that he was black. His candidacy imploded before a single vote was cast. Virginia had elected him governor three years earlier – turns out the fucking capitol of the confederacy was more racially enlightened than New Hampshire.)

    But the fact is that the numbers aren’t as stilted against African-Americans as they are against women. And this shouldn’t surprise anyone who knows their American history: strides forward in civil rights for women have always been preceded by extensions of those same rights to African-Americans.

    Of course, the reason I defend a castrating bitch instead of simply being satisfied with being the party of kill whitey is because the white male is the jew of liberal fascism.

  80. 80.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    And don’t forget Donnie McClurkin

    And here we go again, Hillary supporters (no doubt with the wink and nod we are accustomed to from the Clinton campaign, and perhaps even started by Clinton insiders) will push the ‘Obama hates teh gays” meme for a week in another attempt to drive up Obama’s negatives to pull out the superdelegate vote for HIllary.

    No doubt, assholes like the Confederate Yankee and Red State will be claiming Obama hates gays, and then Taylor Marsh and Hillaryis44 can join up with their new right-wing allies to smear Obama some more. I don’t know what will be more fun, watching the right wing bigots call Wright and Obama racist with help from these Clinton turds, or having the fucking homophobes on the right embrace Taylor Marsh to call Obama anti-gay.

    Yes, Jenniebee, Hillary has faced some unfair attacks. But NOW are you beginning to understand why we are sick of the Clintons and the Clinton supporters?

  81. 81.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Hillary supporters (no doubt with the wink and nod we are accustomed to from the Clinton campaign, and perhaps even started by Clinton insiders) will push the ‘Obama hates teh gays”

    Sure, because everyone knows that Pennsylvanians keep gays as pets and lawn decorations.

    Nothing will win over those Keystone Staters quicker than standing up for gays!

    I think I see a Rick Santorum endoresement for Hillary on the horizon …..

  82. 82.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Of course, the reason I defend a castrating bitch instead of simply being satisfied with being the party of kill whitey is because the white male is the jew of liberal fascism.

    Daisy …
    dai … sy …
    give ……..me …….y..o..u..r..
    an…….swer…………t….r…u…e…….

    brain.cannot.process.
    stop Dave ….
    Stop …

  83. 83.

    Wilfred

    March 24, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    But the fact is that the numbers aren’t as stilted against African-Americans as they are against women.

    Wanking. There have been exactly three black senators since reconstruction. There is only one now. How many women senators are there?

  84. 84.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Let’s just relax and get a spice rub.

    Giving out Herbals again?

  85. 85.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    “The white male is the jew of liberal fascism.”

    End of diacussion. You proved it.
    You ARE INSANE!

  86. 86.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    I think I see a Rick Santorum endoresement for Hillary on the horizon …

    They’ve been scrambling for it ever since Lieberman went for McCain.

  87. 87.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    But NOW are you beginning to understand why we are sick of the Clintons and the Clinton supporters?

    You can dish it out but you can’t take it, I see.

    Tell us honestly, when did you first become sick of the Clintons?

    2008? Or 1992?

  88. 88.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    And don’t forget Donnie McClurkin

    I’ll see your Donnie McClurkin and raise you “The Family”.

    “At the heart of The Family’s American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family’s spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family’s young women’s group. And, at The Family’s frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful.

    Clinton fell in with The Family in 1993, when she joined a Bible study group composed of wives of conservative leaders like Jack Kemp and James Baker. When she ascended to the Senate, she was promoted to what Sharlet calls the Family’s “most elite cell,” the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast, which included, until his downfall, Virginia’s notoriously racist Senator George Allen. This has not been a casual connection for Clinton. She has written of Doug Coe, The Family’s publicity-averse leader, that he is “a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God.”

    Furthermore, The Family takes credit for some of Clinton’s rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing “religious freedom” in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics….”

  89. 89.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    They’ve been scrambling for it ever since Lieberman went for McCain.

    That anti-man on dog sex vote is key in Pennsyltucky.

  90. 90.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Tell us honestly, when did you first become sick of the Clintons?

    2008? Or 1992?

    The first time- 1998.

    The second time, about a few weeks ago.

  91. 91.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    I’ll see your Donnie McClurkin and raise you “The Family”.

    So you hate families?

  92. 92.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    The white male is the jew of liberal fascism

    i’m a white male jew. how the hell do you think i feel?

  93. 93.

    Dulcie

    March 24, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    And don’t forget Donnie McClurkin

    Nice try, myiq

  94. 94.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    when did you first become sick of the Clintons?

    About two days after you turned into their sockpuppet and started spamming the blog 24 hours a day with obnoxious Clinton pimp-ass horseshit.

  95. 95.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    About two days after you turned into their sockpuppet and started spamming the blog 24 hours a day with obnoxious Clinton pimp-ass horseshit.

    I’m actually a cyborg sent back from the future by President Chelsea Clinton.

  96. 96.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Tell us honestly, when did you first become sick of the Clintons?

    2008, right about the time I started to see what kind of campaign she was running and how embracive her supporters seem to be of it. And you all march in dutiful lockstep with whatever the campaign puts out as their meme du jour.

    Autmoatic delegates. The ever-shifitng landscape of metrics that favor Hillary. Primaries that count except when they don’t count. And so on and so forth. The only thing I haven’t heard in weeks is why your candidate is so awesome. All I hear is why Obama sucks so bad. Just like the Clinton campaign itself.

  97. 97.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    When did I become sick of the Clintons?
    Can I remember that far back in time?
    My thoughts are otherwhere. I’ve been busy designing the Iraq “War” Memorial…The one that provides remembrances for the 4,000+ lives expended for the lies. It will be sited near the black marble inscribed V shaped one, yes, that one that’s below the ground as a shameful reminder of another quagmire wherein so many others died for lies.
    The Iraq “War” Memorial will be huge. It will be above ground, white and gleaming in the sun. It will be a fountain pouring forth yellow liquid in an endless cycle.
    For those that remember The Dada’s, this will be a huge urinal. Yes, a huge plumbing device to represent all the lives that have been pissed away for lies.
    Their names will be incised in the white marble behind the yellow waterfalls, and of course, the names of those Repubs and Dems that authorized the urination of their souls will be inscribed around the base. Hilliar’s will be prominent, as will Dick’s, Georgie’s, Condi’s, McShame’s, and all of the other war criminals.

  98. 98.

    Zifnab

    March 24, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    I’m actually a cyborg sent back from the future by President Chelsea Clinton.

    I FUCKING KNEW IT!

  99. 99.

    Xanthippas

    March 24, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    John,

    Dude. Seriously. Crittendon is a hack. A total and complete hack, and a jackass to boot. When you start citing him to support your anti-Hillary posts, you are venturing into Andrew Sullivan-ish CDS territory. Just…step…away…from…the…ledge…

  100. 100.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    I’m actually a cyborg sent back from the future by President Chelsea Clinton

    Jeebus, they’re still wearing pantsuits in the future? Shouldn’t you at least be wearing a pink bodysuit or something?

  101. 101.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    I’m actually a cyborg sent back from the future by President Chelsea Clinton.

    To make her parents look like horse’s asses?

    Success!

  102. 102.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    The only thing I haven’t heard in weeks is why your candidate is so awesome. All I hear is why Obama sucks so bad. Just like the Clinton campaign itself.

    well, to be fair we’ve heard quite a bit from clintonites as to why she’s so awesome. problem is that most of it is laughable, like the recent story of her dodging bullets with sinbad.

  103. 103.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    2008, right about the time I started to see what kind of campaign she was running and how embracive her supporters seem to be of it.

    Why am not surprised at dishonesty from an Obama troll?

    You have been bashing Hillary at this site longer than anybody except TZ. Your HillaryHating was why I started defending her, which was while I was still an Edwards supporter.

    Now go drink your bukkake milkshake.

  104. 104.

    Laertes

    March 24, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Tell us honestly, when did you first become sick of the Clintons?

    “Jesse Jackson won South Carolina.”

  105. 105.

    Dulcie

    March 24, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    For myiq – This is a piece of the open letter Obama wrote to the GLBT community recently.

    I’m running for President to build an America that lives up to our founding promise of equality for all – a promise that extends to our gay brothers and sisters. It’s wrong to have millions of Americans living as second-class citizens in this nation. And I ask for your support in this election so that together we can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans.

    Equality is a moral imperative. That’s why throughout my career, I have fought to eliminate discrimination against LGBT Americans. In Illinois, I co-sponsored a fully inclusive bill that prohibited discrimination on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity, extending protection to the workplace, housing, and places of public accommodation. In the U.S. Senate, I have co-sponsored bills that would equalize tax treatment for same-sex couples and provide benefits to domestic partners of federal employees. And as president, I will place the weight of my administration behind the enactment of the Matthew Shepard Act to outlaw hate crimes and a fully inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act to outlaw workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

  106. 106.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    …drink your bukkake milkshake.

    Is that you, Monica?

  107. 107.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    Jeebus, they’re still wearing pantsuits in the future? Shouldn’t you at least be wearing a pink bodysuit or something?

    Due to global warming all humans wear nothing but thongs. Even the very old and the very fat.

    It’s enough to make a cyborg vomit.

  108. 108.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    For myiq – This is a piece of the open letter Obama wrote to the GLBT community recently.

    So he was against gay rights before he was for them?

    Tell it to Gavin Newsome.

  109. 109.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    humans wear nothing but thongs. Even… the very fat.

    Holy shit, it is Monica.

  110. 110.

    mark

    March 24, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Hillary is the first viable presidential candidate to be a) a woman and b) the spouse of a recent president. How do you sort that out? It’s as if an alien biologist visited Earth and the first mammal he saw was a platypus.

  111. 111.

    The Other Steve

    March 24, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    So myiq… Can you tell me when President Hillary is planning on outsourcing my job to India?

  112. 112.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    You have been bashing Hillary at this site longer than anybody except TZ.

    Dude! From the 7 Habits of Ineffective Blog Losers:

    When your argument can be basically boiled down to “Leave Hillary alone! LEAVE HER ALONE!” then you lose.

    In your case that was about a month and a half ago.

    You’re like one of those bugs that you keep hitting with a shoe, and it won’t die? Ever try to kill a juvenile tick by stepping on it? Like that.

  113. 113.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    “I never said we should go and try to get single payer”

    oh wait… we’re playing by Obama rules, which means that when he lies, its not worth mentioning, let alone doing an entire post repeating right-wing talking points

    Obama lies …. Cole ignores it

    Clinton lies … Cole presents it as absolute, irrefutable PROOF that she’s just as horrible as wingnuts say she is….

  114. 114.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    So myiq… Can you tell me when President Hillary is planning on outsourcing my job to India?

    Friday. You and Samir. But I’m getting promoted.

  115. 115.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    From the 7 Habits of Ineffective Blog Losers by Thymezone:

    Fixt

  116. 116.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    You two are absolutely as ridiculous as any two righty trolls that ever hung around here. Seriously.

  117. 117.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Here we go…waited for this, just like I waited for the clap to arrive when I had my way with her.
    GO! GO! p.luk

  118. 118.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    And here we go again, Hillary supporters (no doubt with the wink and nod we are accustomed to from the Clinton campaign, and perhaps even started by Clinton insiders) will push the ‘Obama hates teh gays” meme for a week in another attempt to drive up Obama’s negatives to pull out the superdelegate vote for HIllary.

    and thus John Cole follows the example of his MUP, and completely ignores the tough questions (like why, if Obama is so pro-equal-rights-for-gays, he had McClurkin performing at one of his rallies) and tries to change the subject to how awful anyone who supports Clinton is…

    McClurkin is a dog-whistle to homophobes — Obama can “denounce” what McClurkin say all he wants to, but when he has McClurkin performing for him, everyone gets the real message.

  119. 119.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Here we go…waited for this, just like I waited for the clap to arrive when I had my way with her.

    bottom line — the MUPpets know that Obama is a liar, but don’t care. Lies only matter when they are being told by someone running against the MUP.

  120. 120.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    McClurkin is a dog-whistle to homophobes—- Obama can “denounce” what McClurkin say all he wants to, but when he has McClurkin performing for him, everyone gets the real message.

    Funny how often Obama has to denounce the beliefs of the people around him, isn’t it?

  121. 121.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    You two are absolutely as ridiculous as any two righty trolls that ever hung around here. Seriously.

    just explain the double standard to me, TZ.

  122. 122.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    bottom line—the MUPpets know that Obama is a liar, but don’t care.

    The classic Clintonian maneuver. In a thread in which demonstrable proof is presented that Clinton is lying, and everyone on the planet who is paying attention is laughing at the mockup videos, the weak spin from Wolfson, and the clear lies about the sniper fire, turn everything around and go on the attack.

    It is perfect, the tried and true format that has carried them this far. Do you care to comment about the lies Hillary was caught in, that was the point of this thread, or is it too inconvenient?

    Xanthippas- yes, Crittenden is a hack, but watching the Clinton supporters here turn this thread on its head into an attack on Obama, can you deny he was write when he said “The Clintons themselves, both of them, who will fight to the bitter end, because all those negative numbers are still numbers they can turn around.”

    That is the problem with the Clintons and their supporters right now. They make hacks like Crittenden look right.

  123. 123.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Funny how often Obama has to denounce the beliefs of the people around him, isn’t it?

    yeah, at least Clinton dumps people who say anything that could be misconstrued as bigoted. Obama gets to “denounce what he said” and then embrace the hate-spreader.

    I mean, he even tried to get away with it with Farrakhan…until Clinton challenged him on. John thought the whole episode was funny — but if you go back and review the tapes, you see he takes the exact same tack as he does with Wright and McClurkin — twice, in fact — until Clinton forces him to actually “reject” Farrakhan’s support.

  124. 124.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “The Clintons themselves, both of them, who will fight to the bitter end, because all those negative numbers are still numbers they can turn around.”

    Winners never quit, quitters never win.

  125. 125.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    The classic Clintonian maneuver. In a thread in which demonstrable proof is presented that Clinton is lying, and everyone on the planet who is paying attention is laughing at the mockup videos, the weak spin from Wolfson, and the clear lies about the sniper fire, turn everything around and go on the attack.

    hey, John, I know everyone is having great fun with this. But when the video showing that Obama flat out lied about supporting single payer was released, I don’t recall you featuring that here, and having fun with it…

    Its the hypocrisy, John, its the hypocrisy.

  126. 126.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    This is excellent news! ! ! For snipers! ! !

    Studly, you are spending too much time at TPM. ;)

    Of course, the reason I defend a castrating bitch instead of simply being satisfied with being the party of kill whitey is because the white male is the jew of liberal fascism.

    Come on now Jen, don’t hold back. Just lay it all out so we can understand you, ok?

    You are nuts, right? Gotcha.

  127. 127.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    yeah, at least Clinton dumps people who say anything that could be misconstrued as bigoted

    Really? I guess that means Bill is sleeping on the couch again.

  128. 128.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    yeah, at least Clinton dumps people who say anything that could be misconstrued as bigoted. Obama gets to “denounce what he said” and then embrace the hate-spreader.

    I mean, he even tried to get away with it with Farrakhan

    it’s almost comedy!

  129. 129.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    John Cole follows the example of his MUP, and completely ignores the tough questions (like why, if Obama is so pro-equal-rights-for-gays, he had McClurkin performing at one of his rallies) and tries to change the subject to how awful anyone who supports Clinton is…

    Next post:

    bottom line—the MUPpets know that Obama is a liar, but don’t care. Lies only matter when they are being told by someone running against the MUP.

    Keep projecting, pluk! They can’t see you from Pluto yet.

  130. 130.

    BFR

    March 24, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    just explain the double standard to me, TZ.

    It seems like Obama wants to leave some ambiguity in his stance towards gays, as in taking some pains to not appear pro-gay while pursuing a policy agenda that would seem to serve the interests of gays.

    Clinton, on the other hand created an electability criteria – CiC threshhold – where her own qualifications are dubious at best.

    I guess you can lump them together but I’m not sure why you would.

  131. 131.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    It is perfect, the tried and true format that has carried them this far. Do you care to comment about the lies Hillary was caught in, that was the point of this thread, or is it too inconvenient?

    sure john. see its perfectly normal to misremember this kind of thing…. going into a war zone, being told that it might be dangerous and that you might come under sniper fire….THAT is the kind of thing that makes a deep impression on people, and leads to faulty memory of events.

    Everyone’s memory plays tricks on them, when they remember stuff that happened in a way that is different from how it really happened.

    But completely “forgetting” that you once stood for single payer healthcare? That’s not a memory “trick” so much as a denial mechanism.

  132. 132.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    obviously, gays need to give their support to the people that gave us DoMA.

  133. 133.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    obviously, gays need to give their support to the people that gave us DoMA.

    And working people in the Rust Belt should definitely support the people who gave us NAFTA.

  134. 134.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    it’s almost comedy!

    watch the video….

  135. 135.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    going into a war zone, being told that it might be dangerous and that you might come under sniper fire….THAT is the kind of thing that makes a deep impression on people, and leads to faulty memory of events.

    Jesus Christ. Personally? I think that ACTUALLY taking sniper fire is something that might make a deep impression on people, and lead to faulty memories. Cheerfully talking to 8-year-olds with your daughter standing nearby? Not so much.

    P.luk: officially beyond parody.

  136. 136.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    It seems like Obama wants to leave some ambiguity in his stance towards gays, as in taking some pains to not appear pro-gay while pursuing a policy agenda that would seem to serve the interests of gays.

    That’s the “bold leadership” thing, right?

  137. 137.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    sure john. see its perfectly normal to misremember this kind of thing…. going into a war zone, being told that it might be dangerous and that you might come under sniper fire….THAT is the kind of thing that makes a deep impression on people, and leads to faulty memory of events.

    is that why there was a different version of the story in her own book?

    apparently, she misremembered it several different ways.

    bull. shit.

    this inflated, exaggerated shpiel isn’t new, paul. she’s been floating this turd for a while now, and the first time she floated it people who were with her on the trip said that it didn’t happen that way. did she stop and think about it, try hard to recall what really happened (or find any even publically-available coverage of the day)?

    nope. she kept going with it.

  138. 138.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    just explain the double standard to me, TZ.

    You, the guy who refuses to ask a reasonable question because we “won’t listen to you anyway?”

    Eat me, lukasiak.

    You are pimping a train wreck. You are representing a couple of people who would throw you both ends of the same rope if you were drowning. I don’t have to explain anything to you.

  139. 139.

    w vincentz

    March 24, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    “Stance towards gays”…I’ve got to call Larry Craig, I’ll get back to you.
    Ring, ring….Larry, you there?

  140. 140.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Everyone’s memory plays tricks on them, when they remember stuff that happened in a way that is different from how it really happened.

    Yeah, but with you it seems to happen on a daily, if not hourly, basis.

  141. 141.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    It seems like Obama wants to leave some ambiguity in his stance towards gays, as in taking some pains to not appear pro-gay while pursuing a policy agenda that would seem to serve the interests of gays homophobes.

    fixed

  142. 142.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    watch the video….

    wow, that debate video has me convinced, he totally wanted to embrace farrakhan but hillary totally shot it down.

  143. 143.

    BFR

    March 24, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    That’s the “bold leadership” thing, right?

    I don’t know that it’s ideal, but it seems like it would be a fact of life for just about any campaign – there’s always going to be a group where you need their support but you need them to keep their distance from you.

  144. 144.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    sure john. see its perfectly normal to misremember this kind of thing…. going into a war zone, being told that it might be dangerous and that you might come under sniper fire….THAT is the kind of thing that makes a deep impression on people, and leads to faulty memory of events.

    I was in the Army for ten years. I remember when I was shot at, thank you.

    keep pushing your new line of attacks, as we all see you refuse to even address the topic of this post. It is so transparent.

    I swear, if I did not know any better I would swear you and myiq are from Red State and are trying to sabotage the election.

  145. 145.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Jesus Christ. Personally? I think that ACTUALLY taking sniper fire is something that might make a deep impression on people, and lead to faulty memories. Cheerfully talking to 8-year-olds with your daughter standing nearby? Not so much.

    I’m reserving judgment. I remember how the MUPpets jumped all over the Northern Ireland thing, claiming Hillary was lying.

    Then it turned out she wasn’t.

    Of course, if it turns out that Hillary told a bald-faced lie I expect joyous celebrations from the HillaryHaters (and those who only “dislike” or are “sick” of her) because they will have finally found evidence that she lied.

    Like the way the celebrated when they finally caught Bill lying (about a blowjob.)

  146. 146.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    But completely “forgetting” that you once stood for single payer healthcare?

    Who gives a fuck? People change their minds.

    Your candidate can’t even admit she was wrong to vote to authorize the Iraq war. Don’t insult people here.

    What is wrong with you? If you have so little respect for the people who post here, why don’t you go post somewhere else?

  147. 147.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    watch the video….

    I saw it live, you butthead. I know what they both said.

  148. 148.

    BFR

    March 24, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    It seems like Obama wants to leave some ambiguity in his stance towards gays, as in taking some pains to not appear pro-gay while pursuing a policy agenda that would seem to serve the interests of gays homophobes.

    And the Clinton administration signed DOMA into law, ne c’est pas? What’s your point? Gays are in the same boat with respect to the Democrats as the hard-core antiabortion crowd is for the GOP.

  149. 149.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    If Clinton had something like, “We were so worried about snipers that we ran to the cars with our heads down,” I probably would have given her the benefit of the doubt. Actually being shot at is a Big Fucking Deal, it’s the kind of life changing experience that you do not misremember.

  150. 150.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 24, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    I will grant that people running for office spin. But “misspeaking” or misremembering being shot at? Uh, no. I’m pretty sure the First Lady being shot at would have made headlines. If indeed it were true; what kind of parent willingly takes their child into an area where people are shooting at you? On that basis alone Clinton should have the cuffs slapped on her and frog marched to a waiting squad car.

  151. 151.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    You have been bashing Hillary at this site longer than anybody except TZ. Your HillaryHating was why I started defending her, which was while I was still an Edwards supporter.

    LOL

    You can’t even keep your facts straight – just like your gal. HillaryHating? Puhlease. As much as I’d love to take credit for your behavior around here, that’s about as believable as Hillary – the war hero.

  152. 152.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Q: I want to welcome Greg Craig. He is a Washington attorney and a senior adviser to the Barack Obama campaign. And he was, back in the Bill Clinton administration, the assistant to the president and special counsel and at that time a senior foreign policy adviser to President Clinton’s administration. Welcome, Greg.
    Craig: Nice to be here, Linda.
    Q: So you have written a provocative memo for the Obama campaign making the argument that Hillary Clinton’s experience as first lady, in terms of its relevance to being commander in chief and an expert on foreign policy, may have been exaggerated. How so?
    Craig: Well, that was the point of my memo. If you’re running for president on the basis of your claims of experience, when you then cite examples, you should be careful to be accurate. The evidence should be accurate. And my point is that Senator Clinton and her supporters have in serious ways overstated, if not grossly exaggerated, the nature of her experience. Take the Irish peace process — which was a lengthy and arduous and difficult negotiation. She said, initially, that “I helped bring peace to Northern Ireland.” Well, if you took the many, many heroes who were responsible for achieving that agreement — I could name 20 people in Ireland. Primarily, the Irish were responsible for doing this, and the Americans were strong supporters.
    But it’s a little bit presumptuous for the first lady, who would meet people and support people to take credit away from the Irish themselves who did it. Terry McAuliffe said, “We would not have peace today had it not been for Hillary’s hard work in Northern Ireland.” That’s just not true. This morning, Senator Clinton said on NPR that the role that she played in the Irish peace process was “instrumental.” Well, that’s not accurate. That’s an overstatement. And anybody who is really knowledgeable about what went on, including George Mitchell, who wrote a book about it — he wrote a book about the peace process, and he never mentioned any role whatsoever that Senator Clinton, or the first lady at the time, played.

    Q: Well, you know, of course, that the Clinton campaign immediately put out a memo quoting George Mitchell saying that she did play a positive role over the decade in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
    Craig: Well, playing a positive role is a little bit different than claiming that you were instrumental. She wasn’t involved in the tough negotiations. She played no role in resolving the tough issues. She met on one occasion in the White House with Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness, and that was nice. It was a photo opportunity. She traveled to Ireland with her husband and met with the women, and the women, of course, were heroic in their work for peace. But she can’t take credit for bringing the women together. They were the courageous ones that did it themselves. What she said was, “It’s a good thing you’re doing it. We’re all for you. I hope you’re successful.” That’s not instrumental. That’s not bringing peace to Ireland.

    I think people can figure this out for themselves, after 16 years of self-justifying horsehit from their leaders.

    About the best Clinton can claim is that some of the people involved in the Ireland thing are willing to say nice things about her. But a close examination of the facts belies any claim that she did anything substantive. She had tea with the Irish ladies and got her picture taken with lots of important people, sort of like Condi Rice does, but without the security clearance or the authority.

    Does anyone here think Condi Rice is qualified to be president? Of something other than the Ladies Piano Society, I mean?

  153. 153.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    I’m reserving judgment. I remember how the MUPpets jumped all over the Northern Ireland thing, claiming Hillary was lying.

    Then it turned out she wasn’t.

    I think the evidence on this one is pretty cut and dried.

    Honestly, though? I don’t think it’s that big a deal, but it sure is funny, in the same way that O’Reilly’s bogus claims of military service were funny.

  154. 154.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    Your candidate can’t even admit she was wrong to vote to authorize the Iraq war.

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress on the most important issue to ever face any nation, the use of military force.

    I was opposed to George W. Bush before he was the GOP nominee. I thought McCain was better (herpes is better than AIDS) but I still found it hard to believe that Bush would flat-out lie to the American people and Congress on this issue.

    I remember that the AUMF was sold as a way to put teeth into the UN resolutions and we were repeatedly told it was not a declaration of war.

    In hindsight, it is clear that Bush intended invading Iraq even if Congress had not voted for the AUMF.

  155. 155.

    Zifnab

    March 24, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Like the way the celebrated when they finally caught Bill lying (about a blowjob.)

    Dude. Whatever. Bill was a fucking idiot for falling into that trap. When you’ve got Republicans sniffing up your ass on every Christmas Card and kitty treat your office purchases, why would you run off and pull such a boneheaded move?

    Clinton could have walked out of office amid a cloud of GOP allegations amounting to nothing and be remembered as the first in a dynasty of reform-minded Democrats. Gore could have waltzed in to the tune of “Captain Planet” and given us 8 sweet years of liberal, intelligent policy both foreign and domestic.

    But someone just had to get his rocks off.

    How much you want to bet that – minus Monicagate – the Democrats could have done 500 votes better in Florida? The Clintons fucked up that one. Don’t even pretend otherwise.

  156. 156.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    Who gives a fuck? People change their minds.

    Hey, I have no problem with people changing their minds. I mean first Obama was for single payer, then he was for universal health care, and now he’s not for universal health care, just mandates for parents to force them to insure their children even if they can’t afford to.

    but there is a difference between changing your mind, and saying that you didn’t change your mind even though you did. Hillary clinton pointed out that Obama had supported single payer, and had changed his mind. Obama lied, and said he never supported single payer.

  157. 157.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    I’m reserving judgment. I remember how the MUPpets jumped all over the Northern Ireland thing, claiming Hillary was lying.

    Ya, Hillary was vindicated on that one when the Irish came out and thanked her for ending decades of conflict…

    “As far as I am concerned, Mrs Clinton was as relevant to peace in Northern Ireland as Tony Blair’s wife or the ex-wife of Bertie Ahern [the Irish prime minister].”

    Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume of the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party in 1998, told The Daily Telegraph last week that Mrs Clinton’s claims were a “wee bit silly”.

    This month, Terry McAuliffe, Mrs Clinton’s campaign chairman, told CNN: “We would not have peace today had it not for Hillary’s hard work in Northern Ireland.”

    Both Unionist and Nationalist negotiators told this newspaper that while Mrs Clinton’s work with women’s groups was positive her overall role was peripheral and she played no part in the gruelling negotiations that took years.

    You really need to stop getting your news exclusively from Taylor Marsh and Talk Left.

  158. 158.

    Brachiator

    March 24, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    At least James Carville is not content to be a mealy mouth mis-speaker. He is willing to tell the Democratic Party to go to hell. Senator Clinton no doubt it proud of his directness (Carville Stands By ‘Judas’ Remark):

    BLUE BELL, Pa. – James Carville, a political adviser to the Clintons, said this afternoon that he stood by his comment last Friday – Good Friday, to Christians – comparing Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico to Judas, even though a Clinton campaign aide said today that, if he were Mr. Carville, he would apologize for the remark.

    “I was quoted accurately and in context, and I was glad to give the quote and I was glad I gave it,” Mr. Carville said. “I’m not apologizing, I’m not resigning, I’m not doing anything.”

    He also admitted that he was the model for the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

  159. 159.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    And the Clinton administration signed DOMA into law, ne c’est pas?

    oh goody. another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    Don’t you MUPpets ever get tired of this sexist shit?

  160. 160.

    hemi

    March 24, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Does anyone here think Condi Rice is qualified to be president? Of something other than the Ladies Piano Society, I mean?

    I would guess that she qualifies for President of any number of academic institutions, having been Provost at Stanford, but President of anything else? Not so much.

    Of course, unlike ME-FIRST (Mythical Experience-From Invented Rebel Sniper Threats), Rice was responsible for starting the largest foreign policy blunder since Vietnam, but her position was an appointed one.

  161. 161.

    some guy

    March 24, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    I remember that the AUMF was sold as a way to put teeth into the UN resolutions and we were repeatedly told it was not a declaration of war.

    Right. Because it would be so hard to simply read the text of the AUMF. Just look at how long it is:

    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force’.

    SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

    (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

    (b) War Powers Resolution Requirements-

    (1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

    (2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supercedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

    Come to think, maybe that would be tough for someone who failed the bar exam.

  162. 162.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress on the most important issue to ever face any nation, the use of military force.

    Waaaaaah! It wasn’t Clinton’s fault! It was mean old George who made her vote for the AUMF! Leave Hillary alone!

    Nice accountability there.

  163. 163.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    oh goody. another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    so she gets to associate herself with the good things that came out of the clinton administration, but to associate her with the bad things that came out of it is sexist.

  164. 164.

    Laertes

    March 24, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    oh goody. another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    This defense would likely pass the horse-laugh test were Senator Clinton not in the habit of putting her husband’s stay in the White House on her own resume.

  165. 165.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress on the most important issue to ever face any nation, the use of military force.

    how would she even know, she didn’t even read the dossier.

  166. 166.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Don’t you MUPpets ever get tired of this sexist shit?

    Why do you ask? Are you in a cranky part of your cycle?

  167. 167.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    He also admitted that he was the model for the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

    don’t you MUPpets ever get sick of this anti-serpite shit?

  168. 168.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    Does anyone here think Condi Rice is qualified to be president?

    Qualified? Yes.

    Would I ever vote for her? No!

    You are conflating objective and subjective measurements.

    If we were to lay out minimal qualifications for office, a former Secretary of State is objectively qualified to be President.

    I find it amusing that you keep pushing the “qualified” argument when by any objective criteria Hillary is as much if not more qualified than Obama to be President.

  169. 169.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress on the most important issue to ever face any nation, the use of military force.

    May she never have to buy a used car.

  170. 170.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Since Lukasiak totally and predictably wimped out and will not address this post, I will take his bait and address the Health Care issue. Simple response- I don’t think Hillary, even if she had the best plan in the world, would get anything passed. She has proven, in this campaign, to be a crappy leader.

    She chooses poor surrogates, she chooses poor advisors, rather than attempting to build a coalition she attempts to burn down her oppositions, and frankly, I don’t think she has what it takes to get any major legislation through, even with a larger majority in both houses. She may be bright, she may be a very hard worker, but she is a terrible consensus builder (unless, of course the consensus is she runs a crappy and lousy campaign or she is lying about her exploits in Bosnia), and I think we have a better chance of getting meaningful legislation passed with Obama.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Lukasiak. it is about issues. With Clinton it is clear what we are going to get- four more years of obfuscation, bunker mentality, and wailing about being a victim of everyone who simply refuses to accept her divine providence.

  171. 171.

    hemi

    March 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    If we were to lay out minimal qualifications for office, a former Secretary of State is objectively qualified to be President.

    So her 4 years of experience are good enough, but Obama’s 4 years in the senate are not? Double-standard methinks.

  172. 172.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    John S. Says:

    Waaaaaah!

    Yes, yes he does. Every damn day.

  173. 173.

    chopper

    March 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    May she never have to buy a used car.

    “Now, slow down, Neddie. The home buyer’s course said always look inside the house before buying.”

  174. 174.

    The Other Steve

    March 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Qualified? Yes.

    Would I ever vote for her? No!

    Why not? She’s got more national security experience than Hillary.

  175. 175.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    How much you want to bet that – minus Monicagate – the Democrats could have done 500 votes better in Florida? The Clintons fucked up that one. Don’t even pretend otherwise.

    Bill’s 2000 approval rating couldn’t realistically have gotten much higher. If he could have run, he would have cruised to reelection for a 3rd term.

  176. 176.

    NR

    March 24, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Hillary’s order of preference:

    She has to know that she has no chance of getting #1 on the list, so she’s going all out to destroy Obama’s chances against McCain and make #2 happen.

  177. 177.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Why not? She’s got more national security experience than Hillary.

    And Condi can eat corn on the cob through a picket fence.

  178. 178.

    NR

    March 24, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Meh, the image embed didn’t work. Here’s the link:

    http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chartyp8xi5.jpg

  179. 179.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Does anyone here think Condi Rice is qualified to be president?

    Qualified? Yes.

    You gotta be shitting me, that woman is barely qualified to pick her own nose.

    C’mon myiq, you’re not even really trying today.

  180. 180.

    Davebo

    March 24, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    oh goody. another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    Of course not. Wives are only responsible for the things their husbands did once we’ve had a decade or so to decide whether or not those things were good for the country.

    It’s like the all you can eat buffet of policy. Take as much of the good stuff as you like and leave the not so good stuff on the warming table.

    And seriously, if you thought a bill titled “Authorization for use of military force” was a bill aimed at diplomatic resolutions I really don’t know what to say other than, I promise not to cum in your mouth.

  181. 181.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    how would she even know, she didn’t even read the dossier.

    Lying to Congress on this issue is not only grounds for impeachment (thanks for nothing, Nancy) but is also treason.

    Why don’t you go after every single Democrat who voted for the AUMF?

    Could it be that it’s just an excuse?

  182. 182.

    Brachiator

    March 24, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Does anyone here think Condi Rice is qualified to be president?

    Does anyone think that George W. Bush is qualified to be president?

    This is the standard against which others should be judged.

  183. 183.

    p.lukasiak

    March 24, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Since Lukasiak totally and predictably wimped out and will not address this post, I will take his bait and address the Health Care issue. Simple response- I don’t think Hillary, even if she had the best plan in the world, would get anything passed. She has proven, in this campaign, to be a crappy leader.

    1) I did address the subject of your post.

    2) We’re not discussing the relative merits of the two candidates health care plans, or the likelihood of either getting passed. The subject is Obama lying about his past advocacy for a single payer system — a lie that you won’t acknowledge, let alone post a video showing the lie in living color.

    As for here “choice of surrogates”, at least her campaign co-chair isn’t going around accusing Clinton of racism because she didn’t cry at Katrina, and threatening black congresspeople with retaliation if they don’t support OBama…

    Oh, and then there’s McPeak, and Powers, etc etc. The difference is that Obama’s surrogates say this crap deliberately, its not a gaffe, its what they really mean.

  184. 184.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    Don’t you MUPpets ever get tired of this sexist shit?

    I’m thinking of a new term for Hillary the Hillarious: A MEFIRSTer (Mythical Experience Facing Imaginary Sniper Threats). This gives her similar CinC experience to that of GWB and RJC, explaining her comments about the CinC Threshold.

  185. 185.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    So her 4 years of experience are good enough, but Obama’s 4 years in the senate are not? Double-standard methinks.

    Show me where I said Obama was not qualified.

  186. 186.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    When you’ve got Republicans sniffing up your ass on every Christmas Card and kitty treat your office purchases, why would you run off and pull such a boneheaded move?

    That word you are searching for is ‘judgement’.

  187. 187.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    And Condi can eat corn on the cob through a picket fence.

    Now that there’s funny, I don’t care who you are.

  188. 188.

    Ted

    March 24, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Bill’s 2000 approval rating couldn’t realistically have gotten much higher. If he could have run, he would have cruised to reelection for a 3rd term.

    This much is definitely true. I love hearing all the stories about the “unpopular” Bill Clinton, when he rode a wave of 60+% approval ratings right through impeachment, and walked out of the Oval office with pretty much the same. If not for term limits, he might *still* be the president.

    What do you think Bush would do just to have Clinton’s worst approval rating?

  189. 189.

    Andrei

    March 24, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Yes.. it’s clear. p.luk and myiq have proven that partisanship for the sake of partisanship is asinine, no matter which side of the fence you are on.

    Before we had had darrell. Now we have p.luk and myiq. Same people, different side of the coin.

    And the reason why American politics has been in the crapper the last two decades. If we are all lucky (or smart, take your pick), they and their ilk — both liberal and conservative — will be rebuffed this election cycle.

  190. 190.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    And Condi can eat corn on the cob through a picket fence eat a Big Mac through a venetian blind.

    fixt.

  191. 191.

    Delia

    March 24, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    I still found it hard to believe that Bush would flat-out lie to the American people and Congress on this issue.

    Funny. I never had the least bit of difficulty with that one.

    I remember that the AUMF was sold as a way to put teeth into the UN resolutions and we were repeatedly told it was not a declaration of war.

    I remember I was eating lunch with a friend at a nice restaurant in La Brea, CA the day the Senate vote on this was announced. We both agreed that it was an historic and catastrophic day for the Republic, that the war against Iraq was now inevitable, and that the Senate was giving away its power to a tyrant without even a whimper. I don’t care how it was “sold.”

    I have to say, for a smart lady, Hillary Clinton is either kind of dense or else she triangulates too much for her own good.

  192. 192.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    That word you are searching for is ‘judgement’.

    Judgement is a subjective standard, not an objective one.

  193. 193.

    Andrei

    March 24, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Or “rebuked.” duh. It’s Monday.

  194. 194.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Now that there’s funny, I don’t care who you are.

    Was it funny when it was originally said of Eleanor Roosevelt?

  195. 195.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    I remember I was eating lunch with a friend at a nice restaurant in La Brea, CA the day the Senate vote on this was announced. We both agreed that it was an historic and catastrophic day for the Republic, that the war against Iraq was now inevitable, and that the Senate was giving away its power to a tyrant without even a whimper. I don’t care how it was “sold.”

    If the POTUS comes before Congress and asks for permission to use our military to make war and presents evidence to support his request, and Congress does not believe he or she is telling the truth, impeachment proceedings should follow immediately.

    John Cole admits he was fooled.

  196. 196.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Hey, I have no problem with people changing their minds. I mean first Obama was for single payer, then he was for universal health care, and now he’s not for universal health care, just mandates for parents to force them to insure their children even if they can’t afford to.

    He never changed his mind. He said that universal care is ideal but unrealistic (care, not insurance – people trip up on that all the time. Universal care is France and you basically bankrupt all the health insurers in one throw, Universal insurance is Clinton’s plan – with the Federal government paying the insurance companies for some smallish subset of the population)

    Obama’s plan is universal in that it forces the insurers to provide coverage to everyone (even with pre-existing conditions) and with a price ceiling. That is, everyone can get insurance, but they may not all be able to afford it. Hillary moves tax money to cover those that can’t afford it. Don’t think that will get everyone insured though – there are always people who can’t afford it that won’t get the subsidy.

    Where you are getting lost is on the bamboozlement around the word universal and what the ‘universal’ is being applied to – to getting insurance at a tolerable price, to getting insurance at a tolerable price with some subsidies, to getting a reasonably large amount of free care in exchange for paying taxes. The last one is what most people call ‘universal care’. The first one (Obama) is what I call ‘universal insurance’ because ‘insurance’ is something people pay for. The middle one is ‘universal insurance + tax credit’.

    Clinton has NEVER argued for universal care that I know of – and I’m not sure she’s ever claimed to, but some people’s brain seems to shut off when the word ‘universal’ shows up in a speech and not turn back on for a few sentences. Universal care has been mentioned here and there by people like Obama and Dean, but never in a serious way because of the extreme pain to the economy to pull it off. The other term for it is ‘socialized medicine’.

  197. 197.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Was it funny when it was originally said of Eleanor Roosevelt?

    I’d imagine that it’s been around for a lot longer than that. A lot of jokes are way older than we think they are, they just get tweaked for the age.

    I do understand though, that Cordell Hull was replaced as Secretary of State for chuckling.

  198. 198.

    Pooh

    March 24, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    If the POTUS comes before Congress and asks for permission to use our military to make war and presents evidence to support his request, and Congress does not believe he or she is telling the truth, impeachment proceedings should follow immediately.

    Glad to see that reality has finally made a dent…oh wait, nope. Alternate reality day continues.

  199. 199.

    libarbarian

    March 24, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    She chooses poor surrogates, she chooses poor advisors, rather than attempting to build a coalition she attempts to burn down her oppositions, and frankly, I don’t think she has what it takes to get any major legislation through, even with a larger majority in both houses.

    THIS IS EXACTLY RIGHT!!!

    Its simple.

    For ANY party to ram through an agenda essentially takes a near super-majority of both houses of congress as well as the presidency.

    There are two basic strategies to follow if you find yourself in power with less than this. You can either (b) find some sort of compromise with the opposition and try toget what you can done now or (b) you put off doing almost anything and focus on gaining the raw power to force through an agenda without having to compromise.*

    For most of the past 2 decades both parties have pursued option (b) to no effect. Call it the Schiavo-Strategy. They craft legislation that they KNOW will not pass for the sole purpose of creating a parliamentary show which they hope will allow them to paint the opposition as bad guys and win them votes in the next election.

    If the strategy worked it might be defendable but it does not work! Neither party is in the position to actually get the kind of dominance they desire. It’s not going to happen. Consequently we get 30 years of dog-and-pony shows that accomplish little to nothing.

    Judging by her behavior Clinton is a firm believer in this failing strategy. Obama, on the other hand, has a history of working to achieve what is possible , even if imperfect, now rather than grandstanding in the hope of one day being strong enough to not have to compromise.

    * or (c) you can luck out and get a spineless opposition who bends over for you every time you say “national security” … but as that is out of your control, we are not considering it as an option.

  200. 200.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress

    So, she (a) blows the most important decision she has ever made, and then (b) spends the next five years trying to avoid saying so.

    Yep, that wins me over. I have put up with seven years of an asshole like that as president, after eight years of a pathological liar … who just happens to be the husband of the train wreck candidate you are pimping.

    Sorry, I’ve had enough. Give me something else.

  201. 201.

    libarbarian

    March 24, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    obviously that meant to read:

    There are two basic strategies to follow if you find yourself in power with less than this. You can either (a) find some sort of compromise with the opposition and try toget what you can done now or (b) you put off doing almost anything and focus on gaining the raw power to force through an agenda without having to compromise.*

  202. 202.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Yep, that wins me over. I have put up with seven years of an asshole like that as president, after eight years of a pathological liar … who just happens to be the husband of the train wreck candidate you are pimping.

    Sorry, I’ve had enough. Give me something else.

    She believed one liar, you believe another.

    Fuck off TZ

  203. 203.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Judgement is a subjective standard, not an objective one.

    Getting a hummer from the intern is pretty fucking objective, bub.

  204. 204.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    She was wrong to trust the President of the United States to tell the truth to Congress

    Yes, because there were 9 months to discover that lie, there were people reporting it as a lie, and some in Congress chose to believe what they wanted. But all of that is beside the point. When most dems running for re-election voted for AUMF and most not up for re-election didn’t, then truth clearly wasn’t the primary driver on the Dem side.

  205. 205.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Getting a hummer from the intern is pretty fucking objective, bub.

    So sexual indiscretions are the objective standard we judge all politicians by?

    Say bye-bye to Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, FDR, and John Kennedy.

  206. 206.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 24, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    oh goody. another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    You people want to give her credit for her years in the White House, but only for the ‘good things. All of the ‘bad things’ are Bill’s fault, not hers. She lies about the Tuzla ‘incident’, and you excuse her for ‘misremembering’ little details like being shot at while in the company of her daughter. You people are blind, deaf and dumb, and that is why you support Hillary.

    Lying and misrepresenting is no big deal to you people, you dismiss it out of hand and then in the next breath you pump out the latest lying talking points on Obama.

    Carville must have told us the truth when he went after Richardson; you koolaid drinkers think Hillary is Jesus. She can do no wrong, thus she is your Messiah. Hell, the crazies at Hillaryis44 refer to Obama as “Satan”, and you can’t get any clearer than that.

    So that is the matchup in your minds, Jesus against Satan. Fucking fruitcakes.

  207. 207.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Where you are getting lost is on the bamboozlement around the word universal and what the ‘universal’ is being applied to

    For fuck’s sake, Martin, now we’re going to get 50 posts detailing the links between Obama, Malcolm X, Denzel, and the Masons.

  208. 208.

    Ted

    March 24, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    I’ll ask again Myiq, who will you vote for in the general if Obama wins the nomination? You know, since you can’t vote for him, will it be McCain, Nader, or will you skip that ballot question?

  209. 209.

    Soylent Green

    March 24, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Now we have p.luk and myiq. Same people, different side of the coin.

    Yep, praise be to p.luk and myiq — the Washington Generals of Balloon Juice.

  210. 210.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    I’ll ask again Myiq, who will you vote for in the general if Obama wins the nomination? You know, since you can’t vote for him, will it be McCain, Nader, or will you skip that ballot question?

    Myiq has consistently said he’ll vote for Obama if he gets the nom.

    90% of what he says is expressly designed to provoke a reaction from Obama supporters. I’ve come to believe that in reality, he isn’t half as unhinged as p.luk seems to have become.

  211. 211.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Say bye-bye to Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, FDR, and John Kennedy.

    I don’t believe that any of those men were caught out and then subject to a hue and cry by their opponents while they were alive.
    In my opinion, Clinton handled the thing terribly. Had he resigned, thus defusing the situation and robbing the Republicans of their main issue, Al Gore would have been the sitting president when election time rolled around. Despite his lackluster campaign style, I believe that Gore would have been elected.

  212. 212.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    She believed one liar, you believe another.

    The problem Clinton (and many other Dems, I’m not singling her out) has is this:

    If she recognizes that she was lied to, then she should renounce her vote and support impeachment (since lying under oath is impeachable – and anyone who speaks to Congress is under oath).

    If she doesn’t recognize that she was lied to, and we all recognize that she was lied to, then what does that say to her ability to judge what she is told?

    If she recognizes that she was lied to (as we recognize) and doesn’t renounce her vote, then what is her rationale for that? The only rationale I can see is that she’s trying to protect her voting history by trying to walk the grey line between right and wrong here.

    Can someone point out a consistent line on her AUMF vote?

  213. 213.

    Ted

    March 24, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Myiq has consistently said he’ll vote for Obama if he gets the nom.

    Not buying it. He’ll vote for McCain. It’s what all the rabid Hillary supporters say they’ll do. Kind of an insight into their political objectives, too. They’re not Democrats. They belong to the Clinton Party.

  214. 214.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    I’ll ask again Myiq, who will you vote for in the general if Obama wins the nomination? You know, since you can’t vote for him, will it be McCain, Nader, or will you skip that ballot question?

    Since tboner did it earler:

    Let’s try a day-after Easter prayer:

    Dear Jeebus, please help our lame brother from afar, ted.

    You healed the sick and raised the dead, please Lord heal afar ted.

    Dear Jeebus, you cast out . . . what’s that Lord? Afar ted is too lame for you to help?

    Well can you heal afar ted’s halitosis? His breath makes his farts smell good by comparison.

    Well, thanks anyway Jeebus.

  215. 215.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    90% of what he says is expressly designed to provoke a reaction from Obama supporters.

    STFU – do I cock-block your game?

  216. 216.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    another guy who thinks that wives are supposed to be held responsible for everything their husbands do.

    Considering that Clinton wants to get the credit for things her husband did and for things that happened while she just happened to be in the neighborhood, I’d say that’s a fair standard in this case.

  217. 217.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    I’ve come to believe that in reality, he isn’t half as unhinged as p.luk seems to have become.

    Very true. He also has the saving grace to (usually) not take himself, or anything else, too seriously.

  218. 218.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    STFU – do I cock-block your game?

    What do you call hiding your mom’s car keys, asshole?

  219. 219.

    Delia

    March 24, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    John Cole admits he was fooled [by Bush].

    Well, I wasn’t.
    And, more to the point, neither was Robert Byrd.

  220. 220.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    In my opinion, Clinton handled the thing terribly. Had he resigned, thus defusing the situation and robbing the Republicans of their main issue, Al Gore would have been the sitting president when election time rolled around.

    If Gore had done a Tammy Wynette and stood by his man we would be arguing whether 16 consecutive years of Democratic Presidents was enough.

  221. 221.

    Doug

    March 24, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Winners never quit, quitters never win.

    I think that’s AA’s new slogan.

    the Senate was giving away its power to a tyrant without even a whimper.

    I seem to recall Robert Byrd making some pretty powerful arguments back in the day. Of course, he agreed about the whimper —

    To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war.

    Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent — ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing.

    We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events.

  222. 222.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    90% of what he says is expressly designed to provoke a reaction from Obama supporters

    Yup. Classic troll behavior specifically designed to garner outrage, all while he giggles at the reaction he causes.

  223. 223.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    If Gore had done a Tammy Wynette and stood by his man we would be arguing whether 16 consecutive years of Democratic Presidents was enough.

    Not sure about that, I seem to recall Bush harping on “restoring honor to the White House.”

  224. 224.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    So sexual indiscretions are the objective standard we judge all politicians by?

    The? No, an. Sorry, but the hummer moved Clinton into the not re-electable column for me (if he could run again). The lie made matters worse, but I didn’t think it rose to the level of impeachment. A simple censor from the Senate should have sufficed.

    It wasn’t that it was a sexual indiscretion – it was a managerial indiscretion. Clinton would have been fired from any (non elected) public sector job over that. I should know, I’ve had people in the public sector fired for similar things.

    That indiscretion showed that he can’t keep his personal needs outside the bounds of his professional responsibilities. That, by the way, is precisely what defines a spy. To have that happening at a high level of government is universally bad because you never know what personal need will compromise what professional responsibility once you recognize that this individual is capable of breaking that barrier.

  225. 225.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    What do you call hiding your mom’s car keys, asshole?

    Property protection. Do you have any idea what impound fees are these days?

  226. 226.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    If the POTUS comes before Congress and asks for permission to use our military to make war and presents evidence to support his request, and Congress does not believe he or she is telling the truth, impeachment proceedings should follow immediately.

    A damn good reason to not vote for Clinton, then, wouldn’t you say?

  227. 227.

    Delia

    March 24, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Well, Obviously Hillary wasn’t paying attention to anything Robert Byrd said. After all, he’s just some old guy from a small state that doesn’t count.

  228. 228.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    That indiscretion showed that he can’t keep his personal needs outside the bounds of his professional responsibilities

    For me, the problem with the affair was the sheer stupidity of it. Under normal circumstances, I could care less whether a president takes one, two, or a dozen mistresses. I’ve never seen any correlation between personal indiscretions of that type and professional responsibility and performance.

    Under the circumstances that Clinton faced, though, as the most-watched president ever, with literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, of individuals and millions of dollars devoted to the effort to bring him down, and an all-too-compliant press willing to go along for the ride, the affair was mindbogglingly stupid.

  229. 229.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    he lies about the Tuzla ‘incident’, and you excuse her for ‘misremembering’ little details like being shot at while in the company of her daughter.

    The media is doing this wrong. (I just got back from 4 days of camping, so the news passed me by) If it was a misremember, it wouldn’t be that she was shot at on that trip when she wasn’t. It would be that she was shot at on some other trip. If she comes through with a trip to somewhere in Europe where she was shot at, the media are going to look (once again) like fucking morons.

    If there was no other trip, then you pound the shit out of the lie.

  230. 230.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Judgement is a subjective standard, not an objective one.

    Not in hindsight.

  231. 231.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    A damn good reason to not vote for Clinton, then, wouldn’t you say?

    Um, no I wouldn’t say that.

  232. 232.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    Classic troll behavior specifically designed to garner outrage, all while he giggles at the reaction he causes.

    Sheesh! You guys are just now catching on?

    Myiq1/2urs has been playing you all like fiddles.

  233. 233.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Show me where I said Obama was not qualified.

    The first “threshold” thread, where we discussed that Clinton silliness — the claim that she and McCain had crossed the CinC threshold, whereas Obama had not.

  234. 234.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Um, no I wouldn’t say that.

    Well, sure, but that’s because you’re a moron.

  235. 235.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    Not sure about that, I seem to recall Bush harping on “restoring honor to the White House.”

    Well he certainly did thast, didn’t he?

  236. 236.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 24, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    The subject is Obama lying about his past advocacy for a single payer system

    The subject WAS Hillary and her lying about her trip to Tuzla. But as usual, people like you have to come in, ignore the topic and rant about Obama some more, then accuse someone else of changing the subject.

    There is no way of holding a rational discussion with a Hillbot. They are programmed using Clinton Logic, and they live in an alternate reality that is all their own. The only way you can talk with one is if you are programmed accordingly. In some respects, communicating with a Hillbot ls like trying to interface a computer with a stump.

    It is a waste of time.

  237. 237.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Not sure about that, I seem to recall Bush harping on “restoring honor to the White House.”

    Jeebus Dennis, what is a salty grunt like you doing with a bunch of sackless pussies?

    Voting for Obama, okay, but you’re hanging with the wrong crowd.

  238. 238.

    PaulB

    March 24, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Myiq1/2urs has been playing you all like fiddles.

    Not everyone. And not all the time. I still loved that exchange I had with him where I pointed out that a hell of a lot of us had figured out that the war was a mistake well before the war. Myiq wanted to pretend he was a lone voice howling in the wilderness and he threw a hissy fit when it was pointed out to him that he was hardly alone and it was hardly a wilderness.

  239. 239.

    jake

    March 24, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Say bye-bye to Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, FDR, and John Kennedy.

    They’re … dead Jim!

  240. 240.

    Dennis - SGMM

    March 24, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Jeebus Dennis, what is a salty grunt like you doing with a bunch of sackless pussies?

    Participating in one war left me with an aversion to ordnance as a tool of diplomacy. We figured out once that it cost our outfit roughly $2000 (Price of a new full size Chevy at the time) for each confirmed kill. Personal experience suggested that they would have taken up Capitalism for half that. If the bastards aren’t sinking our ships and shelling our coastline then figure out some other way to handle it.

  241. 241.

    myiq2xu

    March 24, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    Myiq wanted to pretend he was a lone voice howling in the wilderness and he threw a hissy fit when it was pointed out to him that he was hardly alone and it was hardly a wilderness.

    You lying piece of shit!

    I never claimed I was the lone voice, but it was a wilderness.

    Strangely enough, I don’t recall any of you bashing John Cole for being wrong, even though he was fooled by Bush’s lies too.

    I was wrong about the Doctrine of Pre-emptive warfare.
    I was wrong about Iraq possessing WMD.
    I was wrong about Scott Ritter and the inspections.
    I was wrong about the UN involvement in weapons inspections.
    I was wrong about the containment sanctions.
    I was wrong about the broader impact of the war on the Middle East.
    I was wrong about this making us more safe.
    I was wrong about the number of troops needed to stabilize Iraq.
    I was wrong when I stated this administration had a clear plan for the aftermath.
    I was wrong about securing the ammunition dumps.
    I was wrong about the ease of bringing democracy to the Middle East.
    I was wrong about dissolving the Iraqi army.
    I was wrong about the looting being unimportant.
    I was wrong that Bush/Cheney were competent.
    I was wrong that we would be greeted as liberators.
    I was wrong to make fun of the anti-war protestors.
    I was wrong not to trust the dirty smelly hippies.

    John, Hillary and Obama are all right about the war now. Hindsight is always 20/20. And I know some of y’all are lying mother-fuckers because if everybody who claims they were against the war back in 2002-03 really was against it, we never would have invaded Iraq.

    At least John Cole is man enough to admit what he stood for five years ago.

  242. 242.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    Forget what I said before about the media doing this wrong. I just read Clinton’s statement trying to piece this little abortion back together – either she’s lying or she’s learned how to create her own reality. Neither one is good.

  243. 243.

    BH Buck

    March 24, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    …either she’s lying or she’s learned how to create her own reality.

    Nope. Just lying.

  244. 244.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Poor, poor myiq½xu. His meltdown begins in earnest (along with Hillary’s — coincidence?).

    I find it terribly sad, though. Someone as funny and smart as him going down the path of partisan blindness and abandoning reason altogether.

    I truly hope that come November, the p. lukasiaks and myiq½xus of the world can be at peace.

  245. 245.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    And I know some of y’all are lying mother-fuckers because if everybody who claims they were against the war back in 2002-03 really was against it, we never would have invaded Iraq.

    What. A. Load. Of. Shit.

    Unfortunately for those of us that were, we were represented by politicians that could give a flying fuck what we thought. How many millions of ostensibly anti-war voices were silenced by Hillary Clinton’s vote? And how many millions of others by their senators?

    Hell, we voted for Democrats en masse in 2006 on the platform of ending the war. A majority of Americans want that. And the politicians still don’t give a fuck what we think, so the war continues unabated.

  246. 246.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    If it was such a combat zone, why did she take Chelsea with her? Does she care so little for her daughter that she felt it was okay if Chelsea got shot and killed?

    I saw this story on Kos recently, I saw the pictures, Chelsea was there and standing out under the clear blue sky.

  247. 247.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    CBS says Hillary is totally full of shit.

    And they have the video to prove it.

    I wonder why a majority of Americans say that Hillary lacks honesty is untrustworthy.

  248. 248.

    Martin

    March 24, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    If it was such a combat zone, why did she take Chelsea with her?

    Meat shield. I wouldn’t have faulted my parents either while I was in those awkward teenage years.

  249. 249.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Strangely enough, I don’t recall any of you bashing John Cole for being wrong, even though he was fooled by Bush’s lies too.

    Strangely enough, I don’t remember you being on this blog when we were bashing John for being wrong. While we were much relieved that John was starting his tranformation from Republican to NOT Republican, we all watched with some disdain and called him on it when we felt he was wrong. Of course, Asti wasn’t here either, but that doesn’t mean I wasn’t here. Perhaps you were here, under another name, and you’re lying your ass off too!

  250. 250.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    Strangely enough, I don’t recall any of you bashing John Cole for being wrong, even though he was fooled by Bush’s lies too.

    John took plenty of shit before coming to the light. He doesn’t get bashed now because he admits, with no prevarication, that he was wrong.

    Oh, and because he wasn’t a fucking Senator and didn’t have a vote on AUMF. That’s another little detail to consider.

    Damn it, I fell for the bait again.

  251. 251.

    PK

    March 24, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Hillary’s plane took sniper fire on a trip to Bosnia and no one except her remembers it! The media didn’t cover it? Can you imagine the media coverage if the plane carrying the wife and daughter of the president was shot at!

    Maybe they were shot at and there was no ceremony at the airport, but then, they were abducted by aliens, who erased everyone’s memories but hers. She is the only one who knows the truth! Why won’t anyone believe her!
    Now if only there was an explanation for the video…..!

  252. 252.

    bob

    March 24, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    John was wrong then and now. He doesn’t know why he’s against the war. NOBODY with his lack of critical thinking skills should be teaching children. Hey, John, close your blog, put on sackcloth and ashes and beg forgiveness, you bush loving son of a bitch. How’s that for getting on John? Quit Roger Simon’s pajama’s if you’re now a liberal, why dontcha? Fucking redneck with a phd.

  253. 253.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Myiq wanted to pretend he was a lone voice howling in the wilderness and he threw a hissy fit when it was pointed out to him that he was hardly alone and it was hardly a wilderness.

    A lot of us were yelping about the damn war back in 2002. Trouble is, nobody was listening.

  254. 254.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 24, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Shorter bob: I have a big mouth and when I open it to speak, nothing comes out but brown noise and a foul stench.

  255. 255.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Shorter bob: I have a big mouth and when I open it to speak, nothing comes out but brown noise and a foul stench.

    I actually like him. He is angrier than me and makes me seem calm by comparison. He comes by and does an explosive drive-by every few days, then won’t be seen or heard from for a couple days and then, out of nowhere, erupts volcanically on someone. Sometimes me, sometimes TZ, sometimes Dug Jay.

    I support this.

  256. 256.

    ThymeZone

    March 24, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    If the POTUS comes before Congress and asks for permission to use our military to make war and presents evidence to support his request, and Congress does not believe he or she is telling the truth, impeachment proceedings should follow immediately.

    Um, no. Wrong. Congress alone has the power to declare war, it does not surrender that power because the president asks them to. Congress has the responsibility to get it right.

    Congress abdicated its responsibility, and then weaseled out of the war responsibility by creating this horror called AUMF which is not constitutional by any stretch of the imagination.

    Congress uses the dodge to put the onus on the president to get it right, which is completely outside of the war powers as defined in the Constitution. The fact that the two branches, and the people, go along with this dodge does not make it legal, or proper. It’s wrong, the vote was wrong regardless of the facts concerning Iraq, the congress cannot defer to the president, it is responsible for making the determination and must do so on its own authority. What’s more, even a cursory examination of the facts surrounding Iraq would have cast doubt on the Bush-Cheney scam.

    The whole thing was bullshit, and Hillary Clinton failed to do her fucking job. She went along to get along, and she knows it, and has never had the guts to say so. Fuck her and her “experience” line of crap. That’s like a bank robber saying she has experience with law enforcement.

  257. 257.

    MBL

    March 24, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    And I know some of y’all are lying mother-fuckers because if everybody who claims they were against the war back in 2002-03 really was against it, we never would have invaded Iraq.

    I’m fairly certain that the literal largest anti-war protest in the history of the human race was held on the day that we invaded, or close to it.

    Please don’t pretend that the national media, much less the Bush administration, gave a fuck about anything the people had to say on whether we were going to invade or not.

  258. 258.

    AkaDad

    March 24, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    I’m not too concerned about Snipergate. I don’t think Republicans will make this an issue. They understand that politicians make mistakes, and if Hillary gets elected, I doubt they’ll endlessly run campaign ads calling Hillary a liar.

  259. 259.

    Xanthippas

    March 24, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Xanthippas- yes, Crittenden is a hack, but watching the Clinton supporters here turn this thread on its head into an attack on Obama, can you deny he was write when he said “The Clintons themselves, both of them, who will fight to the bitter end, because all those negative numbers are still numbers they can turn around.”

    I guess. But frankly, writing a post like this one and then watching the Hillary supporters come a’runnin’ is like putting out fly paper and saying “See, look at all those damn flies!”

    I guess I just don’t think what she’s up to is all that bad. It just seems like hard-nosed politics to me, and I really wouldn’t expect any less from her. Come July I may have a different opinion if she’s still around, but it’s still April and we still have some primaries left, and I don’t have a problem with her hanging around to see if she can pull out the hail mary. And anyway, it’s not like she gets a free pass from the media on stuff like this Bosnia trip, the media’s desire to see a “trainwreck” notwithstanding.

  260. 260.

    Splitting Image

    March 24, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    “Strangely enough, I don’t recall any of you bashing John Cole for being wrong, even though he was fooled by Bush’s lies too.”

    Actually, I remember calling him a batshit-insane Republican once. Since he’s admitted that’s true, I see no reason to belabour the point.

    There is a moral in there somewhere. I think.

  261. 261.

    Tax Analyst

    March 24, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    tBone Says:

    A repost (with slight edits) from yesterday, because I’m a shameless whore:

    As bullets clawed the air around us and screams echoed down the rubble-strewn tarmac, I felt almost peaceful.

    It was a simple mission, they had told me – get in, shake a few hands and mouth a few platitudes, get out. Simple. Yeah.

    Things had started going wrong while we were still in the air and only gotten worse from there. So here we were, pinned down, choking on the acrid tang of cordite and the heady scent of human blood. The mission was even simpler now: survive. Whatever the cost, survive.

    There was a grunt and a clatter of equipment as Sinbad threw himself down at my side. Sweat glistened on his bare arms, and I could see tendons contracting and relaxing as he squeezed off bursts from his M14. The motion was hypnotic, like a snake about to strike. Perhaps, when all this was over-

    No. Concentrate. Focus on the mission. Survive.

    A shout from my left drew my head around. Sheryl Crow, guitar still strapped to her back, had taken cover behind a haphazard pile of decaying corpses. Her hair, once lustrous, now lank and greasy, was held back from her eyes by a dirty red headband. Her slim nostrils flared in the dirt-smeared oval of her face, seeking air free of the funeral taint shrouding the airfield. Still, I saw a fierce exultation in her expression that I knew mirrored my own.

    Her lithe, nimble fingers stroked the top of an M67 frag grenade, strumming a chord of impending doom. With one quick, economical movement, she plucked the pin free and sent the deadly payload sailing toward the ridge concealing our enemies. My eyes traced the arc, willing it to fly true, to rain death on-

    “There!” Sinbad shouted. “The convoy!”

    I wrenched my gaze in the direction he was pointing. The boom of the grenade registered only faintly, suddenly unimportant. Thirty yards dead ahead was the real target: the armored convoy, offering safety, shelter, survival. If we could reach it.

    “Follow me!” Sinbad roared, levering himself to his feet. As I prepared to follow, a high-pitched whine arrowed across my eardrums and warm, sticky rain splashed my face.

    I forced myself to look, already knowing what I would see. The big man lay there, crumpled, the left side of his head a nightmare maze of blood, brains and tight curls of yellowish-orange hair.

    Time to mourn later. Survive.

    I juked to my left, darting and weaving, somehow making it to Sheryl’s position. Her eyes were wide, shock and fear clouding their emerald depths. “Is he-”

    “Gone,” I snapped. “We have to move. Now.”

    For a moment I wondered if I would have to leave her behind, but then her jaw tightened and she nodded sharply. “Stay behind me,” she said with a brief squeeze of my hand, then she was up and running, moving like a deer.

    I followed, matching her as best I could with the mindless insect hum of lead bees filling my ears and the cracked tarmac clutching at my heels. We ran, time stretching, flattening, the convoy impossibly distant, a cruel mirage, too far, too far . . .

    And then, somehow, we were almost there. We had made it, we were going to –

    A flat crack and the mournful twang of a guitar string. Sheryl fell, scarlet-splashed splinters from the shattered guitar seeming to hang in the air.

    I stopped. Men were flooding out of the brush and streaming around the cars. One approached me, smirking, rifle held casually across his body, smoke still rising from the barrel.

    “Every day a winding road,” he said in heavily accented English, shrugging a shoulder toward Sheryl’s body. He stepped closer, almost close enough to touch. “End of road for her today. And you.”

    Still smirking, he began to raise the rifle. I lunged forward, freed the ka-bar concealed under my pantsuit, and buried it to the hilt in his chest. He grunted, stiffened, and then slid backwards, the knife making a greedy slurping sound as it pulled free.

    The other rebels froze, momentarily stunned. There were a lot of them – too many, surely – but it didn’t matter. One day, I knew, I would be telling this story to rapt audiences as I made my inevitable march to the Presidency. Would this ragged group of smelly goatfuckers be the ones to stop me? Would they?

    I raised the blade to my lips, licked it clean, and began to laugh.

    Survive. Whatever the cost, survive.

    -From The War Journals of Hillary Clinton, Vol. 1

    Well, I’m way late to this party, but this is the funniest fucking thing I’ve read in ages. tBone, if I wore a hat it would be off to you (hmmm…I’m not sure that came out right, but WTF, I’ll leave it in).

    But I was all ready to write-in Sheryl Crow for President until I got to the sad part about her demise…sigh…they’ll never be anyone like her again, although since the story is all bullshit I guess there never really was anyone like her in the first place.

    Maybe one day, after Hillary serves out her two terms as CIC, of course, they’ll make a TV series about her National Security/Combat Zone exploits…sorta like that old show where Robert Conrad played Pappy Boyington.

    Or maybe not. Maybe they’ll just make fun of her on an episode or two of SNL.

    For those of you tracking the subject I’ll nominate Hillary’s free-wheeling account of her Bosnian Combat Encounter in the category of “My Favorite Mistake”.

    Every day is a winding road…indeed.

  262. 262.

    John S.

    March 24, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    A lot of us were yelping about the damn war back in 2002. Trouble is, nobody was listening.

    True, although I wasn’t enitrely failed by my elected representatives.

    Bill Nelson voted for the AUMF. I started disliking him then and have had plenty of reasons since. Robert Wexler also voted for the AUMF, which I was somewhat surprised at. I was really proud of the way he handled himself during the Clinton impeachment hearings, especially since he was a fairly green congressman. He has called his 2002 vote for the AUMF a ”mistake,’ and his voting record has been strong since.

    Bob Graham voted against the AUMF. I met him when I was a kid, and he was a geniunely good politician for whom I was happy to vote.

  263. 263.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    Anybody know where John Cole’s bio is posted?

  264. 264.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 24, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    I support this.

    Shorter John Cole: I love everyone now that I am a Democrat!

    ;)

    Sorry, I could not resist…lol

  265. 265.

    tBone

    March 24, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Maybe one day, after Hillary serves out her two terms as CIC, of course, they’ll make a TV series about her National Security/Combat Zone exploits

    Next to the return of Battlestar Galactica next week, there is no TV show I look forward to more. That would be awesome. And it would finally give Sinbad a chance for a big comeback.

  266. 266.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Anybody know where John Cole’s bio is posted?

    As a rule, since so many of us work to protect our “real” identities, we’ve tended to be pretty respectful of one another’s privacy, and that’s included John, Tim, Michael, and Tom. I don’t have any authority, of course, but I’d be happier if we kept it that way.

  267. 267.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    TV series about her National Security/Combat Zone exploits

    Petticoat Junction meets McHale’s Navy?

  268. 268.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    As a rule, since so many of us work to protect our “real” identities, we’ve tended to be pretty respectful of one another’s privacy, and that’s included John, Tim, Michael, and Tom. I don’t have any authority, of course, but I’d be happier if we kept it that way.

    Is that you Karl?

  269. 269.

    John Cole

    March 24, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    I have never posted a bio. I am just some idiot with a blog who is frequently wrong.

  270. 270.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    John Cole’s bio can be found posted somewhere in a university in West Virginia… howzzat?

  271. 271.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    I have never posted a bio. I am just some idiot with a blog who is frequently wrong.

    No, you USED to be frequently wrong, now you’re frequently more right, but sometimes just not completely on top of stories. I can’t blame you for that, I can’t remember a time when there was so much bullshit going on at once, who can keep it all straight? I can’t fault you when few of us can keep it all straight.

  272. 272.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    As a rule, since so many of us work to protect our “real” identities, we’ve tended to be pretty respectful of one another’s privacy

    And I have absolutely no desire to delve into anybody’s private life. I was simply curious about his, and others, references to his military service and the oft-repeated references to his educational position. I assumed these facts were posted by John himself at some earlier date.
    My apologies if I was mistaken.

  273. 273.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Is that you Karl?

    No, Friedrich, it isn’t me. That’s him.

  274. 274.

    Asti

    March 24, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    No, Friedrich, it isn’t me

    Ahahahaha! That’s a good one “demi”! ;)

  275. 275.

    demimondian

    March 24, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    And I have absolutely no desire to delve into anybody’s private life. I was simply curious about his, and others, references to his military service and the oft-repeated references to his educational position. I assumed these facts were posted by John himself at some earlier date.
    My apologies if I was mistaken.

    Absolutely.

    Like any evolving conversation, we’ve said a lot of things over the years that this salon has been around, even though they’ve never been collected into one place. It’s more a collection of “known facts” than a single document. So, it’s a known fact that TZ lives somewhere in AZ, and that JC is on the faculty at UWV, and the Tim F. is a scientist of some unspecified flavor somewhere in Pittburgh.

  276. 276.

    cbear

    March 24, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    OT-

    Just came across this funny statement from Michael Dukakis:

    “When Democrats get together, we always sound like cats fighting, and the Republicans think we’re tearing each other apart. But a couple of months later, it turns out we were just making more Democrats .”

    Sure would be nice if he were right, although I have my doubts.

  277. 277.

    Neurome

    March 24, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    Clinton Points Up Fighter Pilot Experience

  278. 278.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 25, 2008 at 12:05 am

    “When Democrats get together, we always sound like cats fighting, and the Republicans think we’re tearing each other apart. But a couple of months later, it turns out we were just making more Democrats .”

    Shorter Michael Dukakis: You ever hear what cats sound like when they are mating?

    So that explains the ‘Democrats are pussies’ meme. ;)

  279. 279.

    TenguPhule

    March 25, 2008 at 12:08 am

    Is it fucking September yet?

  280. 280.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 12:11 am

    Is it fucking September yet?

    No, now go back to sleep!

    Is this the reason why I keep hearing that song “Wake Me in September” long after September has come and gone?

  281. 281.

    ThymeZone

    March 25, 2008 at 12:13 am

    it’s a known fact that TZ lives somewhere in AZ

    Yes, near Bumble Bee, AZ.

  282. 282.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Okay, I have bad memory for crappy top 40 music:

    Wake me up when September Ends (Green Day):

    Summer has come and passed
    The innocent can never last
    wake me up when september ends

    like my fathers come to pass
    seven years has gone so fast
    wake me up when september ends

    here comes the rain again
    falling from the stars
    drenched in my pain again
    becoming who we are

    as my memory rests
    but never forgets what I lost
    wake me up when september ends

    summer has come and passed
    the innocent can never last
    wake me up when september ends

    ring out the bells again
    like we did when spring began
    wake me up when september ends

    here comes the rain again
    falling from the stars
    drenched in my pain again
    becoming who we are

    as my memory rests
    but never forgets what I lost
    wake me up when september ends

    Summer has come and passed
    The innocent can never last
    wake me up when september ends

    like my father’s come to pass
    twenty years has gone so fast
    wake me up when september ends
    wake me up when september ends
    wake me up when september ends

  283. 283.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 12:29 am

    Yes, near Bumble Bee, AZ.

    TZ, you don’t have to do that, demi said it was okay to keep our personal info as our own bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzness!

  284. 284.

    Conservatively Liberal

    March 25, 2008 at 12:30 am

    They are referring to the Bosnia story as “WhopperGate” at Kos. Here is a pic that someone linked to, it is pretty good for a laugh.

    WhopperGate, I like it! I bet Mikey don’t. ;)

  285. 285.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 12:40 am

    WhopperGate, I like it! I bet Mikey don’t.

    Mikey is dead, he ate Pop Rocks and it killed him.

  286. 286.

    The Other Steve

    March 25, 2008 at 12:44 am

    I’m currently posting this message in my mothers basement under heavy sniper fire.

    You guys just don’t know how dangerous the world is!

  287. 287.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 12:49 am

    TOS, you and JeffLieber both ;)

  288. 288.

    ThymeZone

    March 25, 2008 at 1:02 am

    demi said it was okay to keep our personal info as our own bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzness!

    At least we don’t have a hive mentality!

  289. 289.

    Asti

    March 25, 2008 at 1:25 am

    At least we don’t have a hive mentality!

    That’s a nice try honey, but, I think something’s missing. ;)

  290. 290.

    Laertes

    March 25, 2008 at 2:26 am

    If Gore had done a Tammy Wynette and stood by his man we would be arguing whether 16 consecutive years of Democratic Presidents was enough.

    Fine. So you’ve said one thing, ever, that wasn’t completely retarded.

    You’re still an asshole.

  291. 291.

    Cain

    March 25, 2008 at 2:57 am

    I think all of you are missing the obvious. Myiq2xu is really Mark Penn. Either that, he’s a victim of a vulcan mind meld with Mark Penn. Either way, you need to think he is Mark Penn and let loose your inner hate.

    Love,
    cain

  292. 292.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 5:16 am

    Hell, we voted for Democrats en masse in 2006 on the platform of ending the war. A majority of Americans want that.

    You do realize that there were two elections between the AUMF and 2006?

    BTW – How did Obama’s trips to the former Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland go?

    Besides living as a young child in Indonesia and that trip to Africa he’s embarrassed to show pictures of, what’s on his foreign policy resume?

  293. 293.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 5:53 am

    Four more years of defining “is” is not something we need. Just please make it all stop.

    Uh-huh:

    From the official transcript of Meet the Press:
    MR. RUSSERT: But there seems to be an evolution in your thinking. This is what you told the Chicago Tribune last month: “Have you ruled out running for another office before your term is up?” Obama answered, “It’s not something I anticipate doing.” But when we talked back in November of `04 after your election I said, “There’s been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?” Obama, “Absolutely.”

    SEN. OBAMA: I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you’re going to get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed.

    MR. RUSSERT: So you will not run for president or vice-president in 2008?

    SEN. OBAMA: I will not.(emphasis added)

    Obama bragged in the Iowa debate about the “nuclear legislation I’ve passed.” When he encountered resistance from the nuclear industry… including Illinois-based Excelon, the country’s largest nuclear plant operator and one of Mr. Obama’s largest sources of campaign money, he edited his bill several times, making it weaker each time. The bill, however, never passed. It died. But Mr Obama gained a chief political strategist… David Axelrod. In October 2007, Obama resubmitted the bill in its watered-down version.

    There’s more. There always is.

  294. 294.

    BH Buck

    March 25, 2008 at 5:54 am

    You know, if McCain somehow manages to win this November, and Clinton runs in 2012 like some here have suggested, I vow here and now to do everything in my power to see to it that woman fails. Even if it meant yet another four years of McCain, Hillary won’t be president. (Not if the above conditions are met, I mean).

  295. 295.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 6:57 am

    Shorter myiq2xu:

    Ignore that mountain range – look here at this molehill. If you put your head down on the ground next to it, it reveals itself to be bigger than the mountain range! You can’t even see the mountain range hidden behind the molehill!

  296. 296.

    John S.

    March 25, 2008 at 7:17 am

    “And also remember that pledged delegates in most states are not pledged. You know, there is no requirement that anybody vote for anybody. They’re just like superdelegates.”

    Commander in Chief of propaganda reporting for duty!

    It’s also another example of the fog of nonsense that has increasingly enveloped the Clinton campaign. Spin is one thing. And it’s not a bad thing. But to have utility it must be tethered to some relevant facts, some kind of reality. Otherwise it just descends into ridiculousness.

    Usually this malarkey comes out of the mouth of Mark Penn. But it seems to be infectious.

    There’s more. There always is.

  297. 297.

    John S.

    March 25, 2008 at 7:23 am

    The Commander in Chief of propaganda contradicts herself in one pass!

    There are different ways to become a delegate, there are delegates from caucuses, there are delegates from primaries, and there are the appointed delegates, they’re all equal, they all have an equal vote – those are the rules of the Democratic Party. Now if you don’t like the rules, change them going forward but those are the rules. And they are there for a purpose, because if you go back and look 30 years ago, people were elected to Congress said, ‘Wait a minute, this party is not running winning elections. We need to have a say, with all due respect,’ so, they have a say. You know, the goals are very conveniently being interpreted, you know – Michigan shouldn’t count because of the rules and and we shouldn’t count the superdelegates even though the rules…You know, I think that doesn’t make sense.

    ‘We shouldn’t change the rules mid-game, unless it benefits my camapign.’ And she wonders why a majority of Americans find her dishonest and untrustworthy.

  298. 298.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 7:25 am

    I have been ruminating on this situation a lot lately, and I think I have come to the point where I really cna’t blame Hillary: I blame the superdelegates.

    The whole reason the democrats set up this ridiculuous system was to prevent this very situation, where we have a front-runner and a rival who is not going to win, but the race is close enough for the tival to stay in until convention and in the process tear the party apart.

    The problem is, that the system was designed such that the superdelegates were inteded to help push the establishment candidate over the top, because of course, the establishment candidate SHOULD be winning. This cycle has shownt he weakness in the system: if the non-establishment candidate takes the lead, in general, the superdelegate population is too craven to do what it needs to do to pivot to the general election.

    So the result is the vast majority of superdelegates sit on the sidelines (except for a few courageous ones like Murtha and Richardson) and watch the party get torn asunder. A special place in Gehenna will go to folks like Edwards who won’t pick a side because it would endanger his “elder statesman” status.

    At this point I would just like the superdelegates to come forward and end this. Either go with Obama and end this bickering or go with Hillary and deal with the fallout. As always, Democrats: Profiles in Courage.

  299. 299.

    cleek

    March 25, 2008 at 7:31 am

    300

  300. 300.

    Shygetz

    March 25, 2008 at 7:47 am

    jenniebee says:
    Her campaign shouldn’t have run that commercial without doing better vetting and fact-checking, but plenty of people, plenty of times, make false statements without intending to tell a lie. Shoot, most people have false memories of things that they dreamed which are just close enough to real events that the dream supplants the true memory.

    I find it amusing that the defense towards Hillary’s apparent lies is that she has lost her grasp on reality. Dishonest or delusional…hmmm, tought choice. And, if she even thought that Bosnia was such a dangerous war zone, why did she bring along Chelsea? I mean, Sinbad I can understand, but your own daughter?

  301. 301.

    rachel

    March 25, 2008 at 7:49 am

    cleek Says:

    300

    Tonight we blog in Hell?

  302. 302.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 7:56 am

    From the MyDD link:

    Obama first claimed not to know about Wright’s inflammatory statements. He later admitted he did.

    Of course the Obamaniacs say this isn’t true, Obama did not change his story because he knew about other comments by Wright, not the ones in question.

    But that begs the question – what did Wright say in those “other” statements Obama admits he was aware of? How many of those other statements were there? Obama gives a speech to try to settle this issue and admits he knew Wright for nearly 20 years, but says the statements in controversy are not an accurate picture of the man.

    Two days later Obama’s campaign releases a picture of Wright shaking hands with Bill Clinton, as is that makes things equal.

    Not so well publicized is the fact that Obama wrote letters to the Illinois Dept of Housing, recommending Rezco’s company, North Kenwood, LLC, for the housing projects that soon became slums, causing inhumane hardship for their residents.

    These slums, later repossessed, were in Obama’s district while he was an Illinois senator. In fact, some are about a mile from his home, and several are still boarded up. Obama professed to be unaware of any problems. During the Democratic debate on January 21, 2008, Obama, in fact, gave the impression that he had merely done about 5 hours of legal work for “this individual.” (emphasis added)

    I recall that debate – anyone who didn’t know about Rezko (I didn’t at the time) would think poor Barack barely knew the man. Turns out they had a long, close relationship.

    Then Obama’s campaign produced a picture of Rezko shaking Hillary’s hand, as if that made things equal. Sound familiar?

    As for the recommendations – is this some of the superior judgment that Obama has in place of experience?

  303. 303.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:09 am

    “this individual.”

    Remember the howls when the Big Dawg said “I did not have sex with that woman?”

    Then there was good ol’ G-dub, who, after spending a good part of the 2000 campaign traveling in the Enron corporate jet courtesy of Ken “Kenny-boy” Lay, responded “Ken who?” when asked about Lay’s arrest.

  304. 304.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:15 am

    From The Confluence:

    Phil Bredesen, Governor of Tennessee, has a plan to settle the superdelegate count by early June. This plan is to have a pre-convention just for the Supers so they can pick a candidate before the actual convention in August. His reasoning is that it would be sooo much better for the party if we got this out of the way before August so we could get on with the business of crushing McCain. He can’t help it that he’s been duped to stupidity by Obamamania, bless his heart. Much to our surprise, this is a plan that Obama thinks is “interesting” and “would probably be the best way to insure that at least there’s a couple of months before the convention” for the party to unite. I call it a complete non-starter and just another variation on the “Why Won’t That Stupid Bitch Quit?” (WWTSBQ) idea that’s been floated for some time now. (This one may be donation worthy. We must consult Lambert) A Superdelegate convention would just lock in the SDs for whoever is the delegate leader, I suspect, because it would be haunted by zombie Obamaphiles who would threaten to eat the SD’s if they don’t comply with their noisy demands. And that would be risky because if Obama flames before August, it would be very difficult to reverse locked in pledges and nominate Hillary instead. Nice try guys but we’re not stupid.

    Riverdaughter (aka Goldberry) is a recovering kossack who wouldn’t drink the kool-aid.

  305. 305.

    chopper

    March 25, 2008 at 8:17 am

    They are referring to the Bosnia story as “WhopperGate” at Kos. Here is a pic that someone linked to, it is pretty good for a laugh.

    i can haz whopper?

  306. 306.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 8:18 am

    Yes myiq, a long bitter nomination fight really is int he best interest of the Democrats….

  307. 307.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:25 am

    Yes myiq, a long bitter nomination fight really is int he best interest of the Democrats….

    Y’all feel free to quit whenever you want.

    “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.” – HST

  308. 308.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:30 am

    i can haz whopper?

    U can haz royale with cheese

  309. 309.

    cleek

    March 25, 2008 at 8:31 am

    Either way, you need to think he is Mark Penn and let loose your inner hate.

    i hope he’s at least getting paid for all this shillerly.

  310. 310.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 8:31 am

    Get out of the kitchen?

    WWHST do?

  311. 311.

    ntr Fausto Carmona

    March 25, 2008 at 8:32 am

    Y’all feel free to quit whenever you want.

    Holding the election hostage. How classy.

  312. 312.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 8:36 am

    Y’all feel free to quit whenever you want.

    “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.” – HST

    I almost hope Hillary does pull off a superdelegate coup… so she can be crushed in the general election and a stake can be driven into the heart of another Clinton presidency once and for all. The sad part is 3 months ago I would have happily voted for her.

  313. 313.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:39 am

    Holding the election hostage. How classy.

    Y’all are the ones worried about losing and talking about quitting.

    And since you’re gonna blame Hillary if Obama loses in November she only has one choice – win the whole fucking thing herself.

  314. 314.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Y’all are the ones worried about losing and talking about quitting.

    Oh, we aren’t quitting, we are just getting mad. Everytime the Clinton campaign does something outrageous Obama gets a 35$ check from me. We just want this sideshow to be over as quick as possible.

    Of course the good of the party really is secondary to the good of hillary Clinto to you, isn’t it?

  315. 315.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 8:42 am

    I nearly voted for Clinton on Super Tuesday. Voted for Obama because my kids wanted me to – at a basic level they did not trust Hillary, and it appears they picked up on something I missed.

    In six weeks Bill and Hill have given me CDS. I am instantly changing the channel whenever they come on, because I just can’t stand the sight of their faces – a reaction only W. has been able to provoke in me so far. Well, Nancy Reagan, too.

  316. 316.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 8:47 am

    Of course the good of the party really is secondary to the good of hillary Clinto to you, isn’t it?

    Wrong – Hillary is the best candidate for the party and the country.

  317. 317.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Clinton IS the party to those people.

    MoDo had it right some 12 years ago:

    Le Parti, C’est Moi.

    The defense is that Mr. Clinton has to win by adopting the Republicans’ tricks, but some people worry that he’s adopting more than their tactics. The danger is that all that will be left of the Democrats’ compassion is the rhetoric.

    In Chicago this week, Dick Morris achieved perfect triangulation, positioning Bill Clinton at the intersection of conservative scheming and liberal sentimentality. There was no party identity.

    Without a functioning, democratic Democratic Party, this country has no future.

  318. 318.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Wrong – Hillary is the best candidate for the party and the country.

    So if that means causing a civil war in the party and/or torpedoing our chances in november, so be it?

  319. 319.

    John S.

    March 25, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Hillary is the best candidate for the party and the country.

    Why can’t you see that you poopyhead?! Why, why why?! It’s Hillary’s turn — don’t you understand?!

    Now I know what throwing a temper tantrum on like lloks like. Thanks, myiq¼xu!

  320. 320.

    John S.

    March 25, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Hillary is the best candidate for the party and the country.

    Why can’t you see that you poopyhead?! Why, why why?! It’s Hillary’s turn — don’t you understand?!

    Now I know what throwing a temper tantrum online looks like. Thanks, myiq¼xu!

    I hate uneditable posts…

  321. 321.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 9:32 am

    So if that means causing a civil war in the party and/or torpedoing our chances in november, so be it?

    A few months ago we were united and Hillary was the frontrunner.

    So who’s dividing the party?

  322. 322.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 9:43 am

    A few months ago we were united and Hillary was the frontrunner.

    So who’s dividing the party?

    Could it be the person who is losing, but conducting a scorched earth campaign?

  323. 323.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Could it be the person who is losing, but conducting a scorched earth campaign?

    What, exactly, is Hillary doing that constitutes a “scorched earth campaign?”

  324. 324.

    Xenos

    March 25, 2008 at 9:58 am

    What have we all been discussing over the last few weeks? Do you have amnesia? Have you been kicked in the head by a horse?

  325. 325.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    March 25, 2008 at 10:04 am

    A few months ago we were united and Hillary was the frontrunner.

    So who’s dividing the party?

    Do you mean at some point earlier in the primary season throughout which Obama has consistently held a lead in pledged delegates, from the very 1st contest on? Or does A few months ago mean as in before the Iowa caucus, as in before any actual voters had a turn to actually, you know – vote?

    Whoa! My think my cynicism meter just pegged a red line.

    Now there’s some Stalinism you can xerox.
    Comrades! It is no accident that…

  326. 326.

    Gus

    March 25, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Even Taylor Marsh conceded that Hillary fucked up with the Bosnia thing. Granted there were lots of “to be fair” and other qualifiers in the post. Some Hillbots in the comments will not give up, though. It’s amazing to see people who seem to be convinced that Hillary can do no wrong. I know there are MUPpets who are the same way.

  327. 327.

    Desmond

    March 25, 2008 at 10:06 am

    A few months ago we were united and Hillary was the frontrunner.

    So who’s dividing the party?

    I’m sorry, but this is just bullshit. Why even have a primary campaign if you think the initial frontrunner is entitled to win, and actually having a contest is just going to divide the party?

    Hillary is dividing the party by fighting to the bitter end even after she has practically no chance of winning the nomination. Her continued candidacy is only delaying the start of a national general election campaign.

  328. 328.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 10:08 am

    What have we all been discussing over the last few weeks? Do you have amnesia? Have you been kicked in the head by a horse?

    Discussing? I’ve seen a lot of factually deficient hyperventilating by the MUPpets.

    I’ve also seen a lot of mudslinging from the Obama campaign.

  329. 329.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 10:11 am

    I’m sorry, but this is just bullshit. Why even have a primary campaign if you think the initial frontrunner is entitled to win, and actually having a contest is just going to divide the party?

    Hillary is dividing the party by fighting to the bitter end even after she has practically no chance of winning the nomination. Her continued candidacy is only delaying the start of a national general election campaign.

    Does cognitive dissonance hurt?

  330. 330.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    March 25, 2008 at 10:22 am

    It all makes so much more sense if you understand that Hillary is not actually trailing by an insurmountable margin in pledged delegates, because, umm, well, uh… because pledges don’t count!:

    In Monday’s ed board meeting with the Philadelphia Daily News, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., was asked about the basic math obstructing her path to the nomination.

    Specifically, she was asked her plans if, come June, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., remains in the lead with pledged delegates, how she would try to convince superdelegates to give her the nomination if Obama does end up the choice of primary voters and caucus goers?

    “I just don’t think this is over yet,” she said, “and I don’t think that it is smart for us to take a position that might disadvantage us in November. And also remember that pledged delegates in most states are not pledged. You know, there is no requirement that anybody vote for anybody. They’re just like superdelegates.”

    I think Dems need to start coming to grips with the idea that Hillary will still be running in November as a Lieber-candidate, even after Obama has been picked at the convention by the majority of the delegates. The denial goes that deep.

    I wonder what astronomy is like, in a Hill-io-centric universe, where the Sun, the planets and the Oort cloud all revolve around the Hill.

  331. 331.

    Desmond

    March 25, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Does cognitive dissonance hurt?

    What are you talking about? You said Obama was “dividing the party” by….well, by attempting to become the nominee. Explain why the division is the fault of the guy who’s winning by a nearly insurmountable margin, and not the fault of the woman who will almost definitely lose, yet is continuing to campaign while also praising the Republican nominee.

  332. 332.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 10:28 am

    I think Dems need to start coming to grips with the idea that Hillary will still be running in November as a Lieber-candidate, even after Obama has been picked at the convention by the majority of the delegates. The denial goes that deep.

    When all else fails, make shit up.

  333. 333.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 10:30 am

    What are you talking about?

    I’m talking about two paragraphs that are completely inconsistent with each other.

  334. 334.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 10:36 am

    No myiq, they aren’t…

    There is a diffirence between declaring yourself a frontrunner before a single vote is cast and declaring yourself a frontrunner near the end of a primary process.

    HIllary was NEVER a “frontrunner.” She NEVER had the lead in wither pledged delegates or popular votes.

  335. 335.

    Desmond

    March 25, 2008 at 10:38 am

    I’m talking about two paragraphs that are completely inconsistent with each other.

    No, my first paragraph was about the beginning of the campaign when all we had to go on was speculation. The second was about now. I assume you’re trying to say that the situation Obama is in now is the same position Hillary was in before the primaries started, and that Hillary is being no more divisive now than Obama was back then, but that is completely false.

    The primaries are all but over; much has been decided. When Hillary was the front runner, the delegate count was limited to superdelegates. But she has never been the frontrunner in elected pledged delegates. Never.

    It’s hard to say that the party was “united” before the primaries even started, because no one had a chance to vote on it. Now, most Democrats have voted, and thus far, their choice has been Obama. I ask again, just who exactly is dividing the party? The one who has been winning all along, or the one who is stubbornly holding out?

  336. 336.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    March 25, 2008 at 10:42 am

    myiq inadvertantly discloses the HRC campaign strategy:

    When all else fails, make shit up.

    Hey, if it works for Hillary, why can’t I play? Or are you saying that I haven’t crossed the threshold of Bullshitter-in-Chief yet?

  337. 337.

    The Other Steve

    March 25, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Looks like the media is starting to turn it’s scrutiny on Hillary campaign tactics. I saw a couple of stories last night about how Hillary is trying to divide the party.

    Not good for myiq’s sanity. Is he going to lose it like p.luk?

  338. 338.

    demimondian

    March 25, 2008 at 11:03 am

    Nah. TOS, MyIQ has been serving his nation with distinction for the last several weeks, in much the same way that you have been. He will merely find some other means by which to serve.

    I fear that he will turn to arguing in favor of voting for Nader, just to infuriate me.

  339. 339.

    myiq2xu

    March 25, 2008 at 11:12 am

    I fear that he will turn to arguing in favor of voting for Nader, just to infuriate me.

    In November I will be voting for the same person I always planned to vote for.

    The Democratic nominee.

  340. 340.

    over_educated

    March 25, 2008 at 11:17 am

    In November I will be voting for the same person I always planned to vote for.

    The Democratic nominee.

    Well, then, welcome aboard the Magical Unbity Pony! We have pancakes and kool-aid in the back…

  341. 341.

    tBone

    March 25, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Not good for myiq’s sanity. Is he going to lose it like p.luk?

    Nah, myiq is crazy like a fox. He just wants to see how many heads he can make explode before the nominee is decided, then he’ll (hopefully) redirect his trolling talents on McCain.

  342. 342.

    Original Lee

    March 25, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Hi! My name is Original Lee, and I’m a registered voter. I have been paying attention to the Democratic primary season for three months. Despite heavy provocation, I have not thrown anything at the TV this whole time, although I have uttered the occasional primal scream. I haven’t been this frustrated since the whole Schiavo mess. I would like to thank John Cole for this blog, for it helps me remember that I am not alone.

    Seriously, though, I am increasingly frustrated with this campaign. It’s as if we’re trapped in a movie, where we voters are the kid or small animal with the key to the treasure chest, and the candidates are the adult who has to wheedle us into giving them the key. Depending on the movie, the adult does one of three things when kid or small animal doesn’t immediately see the logic in giving up the key: 1) pitches a fit and tries another line of attack that contains a variable relationship to reality (Clinton); 2) threatens that something very bad will happen to the holder of the key at some unspecified date and/or beats up on kid or small animal (McCain); or 3) patiently explains the mutual benefits resulting from the adult using the key and promising future rewards with variable tangibility (Obama). With plot choices 1) and 2), the adult in almost invariably up to no good and promptly reneges on everything, while in plot choice 3), usually everything turns out OK, although not always as predicted. If the primary is in our state, we’re in the movie, but otherwise we’re watching it and screaming at the screen.

  343. 343.

    PaulB

    March 25, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    what’s on his foreign policy resume?

    The same thing that’s on Hillary’s.

  344. 344.

    PaulB

    March 25, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    A lot of us were yelping about the damn war back in 2002. Trouble is, nobody was listening.

    Yup, which is why so many of us are irritated at Clinton, since it was bleeding obvious that what was happening was horribly ill-advised. She’s never addressed her lack of judgment adequately.

  345. 345.

    Tax Analyst

    March 25, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    cbear Says:

    TV series about her National Security/Combat Zone exploits

    Petticoat Junction meets McHale’s Navy?

    Ummmm…”McHillary’s Compulsion”? …

    “Ms. Hillary’s Compulsion”?

    Something like that.

    Or maybe just an updated version of the old-old TV Game show, “To Tell The Truth”. Remember? You had 3 guests, each representing themselves to be a particular person of some exceptional or at least strange accomplished. The panel of 3 celebrities/sorta celebrities would take turns asking questions in rotation to try and deduce who was the real deal.

  346. 346.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 25, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    TBone, I posted your “War Journals..” comment over on Matt’s Yglesias latest Sleep-Deprived entry and credited you. You may want to go over and take a few bows.

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. Masson’s Blog - A Citizen’s Guide to Indiana » Hillary Clinton: Four Pinnochios on “Sniper Fire” story says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    […] Hillary Clinton: Four Pinnochios on “Sniper Fire” story By Doug Apparently Senator Clinton has been trotting out a story about how she had to evade sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996 when she was First Lady. This is not, as it turns out, a strict representation of reality. In fact, when she says that she had to evade sniper fire on the tarmac and had to run for her car with no greeting ceremony, what she should have said was that she did *not* have to evade sniper fire, there *was* a greeting ceremony, and she did *not* have to run for her car. […]

  2. Maggie's Farm says:
    March 25, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Tuesday Rudy’s Pub-time links

    McCain gives good straight talk on mortgagesA good example of why the Dems lept at the chance to abandon Hillary. Also, David Brooks on Hillary’s Long Defeat. It’s true: you can’t keep your eyes off a traffic accident. Also, What’s worse – racist…

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