Hillary’s lies about Tuzla, her lies about NAFTA, and her unwillingness to release her tax forms (she is terrified what is going to happen when the blue-collar workers she is courting see the money Bill has been raking in on the speaking circuit) while attacking Obama for not releasing his is getting her past statements a little long overdue attention from the press:
In light of Tuzla-gate (catchy, no?), reporters are going over past statements by Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, (and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois) to see if others don’t stand more rigorous examination.
One that may get renewed scrutiny is a story she told “Women in Military Service” in 1994 — that shortly after the end of the Vietnam war, she looked into joining the Marines.
In June 1994, Clinton told an organization trying to build a memorial for women who had served in the armed forces, that while living in Fayetteville, Arkansas, in 1975, “I decided that I was very interested in having some experience in serving in some capacity in the military. So I walked into our local recruiting office…”
Don’t worry, Hillaryis44 readers. We have been told she is the most vetted candidate EVER and, after all, she is ready to be CinC from day one, so this should be no big deal. I am sure all her past statements will check out.
*** Update ***
I should probably add that I think this is a completely stupid non-issue. I am just going to enjoy watching the Clinton team deal with all this little crap the press kicks up. Especially after how she and her scummy campaign team have conducted themselves in regards to Obama. So hey, just chalk this up to schadenfreude for me.
The general anti-Clinton bile being spilled here prompted me to write this.
To: Anti-Clinton Democrat
Subject: The Clintons
Why are you listening to Andrew Sullivan’s views on the Clintons? Why are John Cole’s anti-Clintons diatribes worthy of your praise? When did Andrew Sullivan and John Cole’s views of the Clintons become your view? And, most importantly, why are you helping them weaken and destroy our Party and Party leaders?
You do realize that Andrew Sullivan is a Republican and John Cole was until recently a Republican and that they both have well established records of Clinton Derangement Syndrome (CDS). They are and were highly partisan Republicans who worked actively to establish the current anti-Clinton rhetoric of the past 18 years. Why all of a sudden have their views on the Clintons become more relevant to you?
The Clintons are politicians, successful politicians and part of our party leadership, which in today’s political landscape means they’re hardnosed, aggressive and yes even a little dirty and grimy. You may disagree with their policies and politics, but they are loyal Democrats who’ve done more to support the Democratic Party than any of the current bunch of
assholesdisgruntled Republicans attacking them (Andrew Sullivan, John Cole, etc.).
So, I going to ask you; please limit your attacks on the Clintons to their policies or politics and not their personalities (we’ll leave that to the Republicans). And just as importantly, when they are slandered or attacked unfairly, I want you to defend them as ardently and as passionately as the person, who is attacking them. The Clintons are part of our party leadership and defending them is what makes us a strong Democratic Party.
John, how about deleting this post and starting over again?
P.S. Scary black preacher! Scary black preacher!
Tell ya what. I’m a life-long Democrat with roots in the Arkansas Democratic party. I shifted from supporting Clinton to supporting Obama because I felt that her advisers were questionable — and my concerns have been amply borne out since my shift. She has shown her unfitness to be president in her unwillingness to dump her team when it started messing up.
Remember, when you elect a President, you elect not only a President, but also an administration. The success of that administration is shaped more by the rest of the people in the team than by the President himself or herself, who directs and disciplines the rest of the bunch, and if the President is unable to do that then the administration will be a disaster. Unfortunately, Clinton has not been able to do that.
But only if she gets enough sleep.
And we finally have the popular thread. 300+ biotches.
If not defending the Clintons is wrong, man, I don’t want to be right.
Is this the best Clinton scandal you got?
I mean the crap your posting has nothing on the 90s scandals. Those scandals had the Clintons committing murder, doing drugs, having black children out of wedlock with prostitutes. I mean they finally got him on a sex scandal for goddness sakes, and all you’re bringing up is false statements. Dude, you’ve got to do better than that.
The CDS crowd has really slipped a notch.
I will stop being a dick to her the minute she and her advisors stop sounding like Red State and Richard Mellon Scaife when discussing Obama.
Many life-long democrats are on this blog and agree that the issue is not John Cole and Andrew Sullivan, but the manner in which clinton has decided to conduct her campaign. A few months ago many of us were eager and excited to vote vor Hillary, now, not so much.
Hillary is now just serving to torpedo the Dems hopes in the GE, she needs to get out of the race, now.
No, I think this scandal is absurd.
I also think the Wright scandal is fucking absurd, and was particularly disgusted to see the Clinton camp pushing it. Do you have a point to all this?
Yeah, no kidding. I’m glad she’s licking Scaife’s boots now; she’ll be insulated from all that crap when she wins.
“getting her past statements a little long overdue attention from the press:”
What I want to know is when people are going to start demanding this happens to John McCain (R)
The other problem i have with this hilarity is that the excuse that “she was tired” when she made the statements seem to completely undercut her “3am” ads… It seems to me she doesn’t seem to react very well when she is sleepy… ;-0
The amazing thing about all the Hillbot boosterism around here is so darned effective it all is! I can’t tell you how many times myiq has really inspired some hard self-reflection.
Granted, it’s hard self-reflection on the order of, “so am I officially a masochist by not putting cleek’s pie filter on? Should I get treatment for this?”, but it is self-reflection.
I don’t think John really thinks this is a “scandal” per se. The point is that one of the arguments advanced by the Clinton camp is that Hillary Clinton has all of her cards down on the table, and everything to know about her is known, so any attack used by the Republicans will be old news.
So finding these instances where Clinton has basically made up stuff about her life to boost her record undermines that claim.
LOL @ Jen!
Clinton’ game is the same as ever: Always complain, never explain. Just release the fucking tax records.
Fine defeat her on the policies or politics, but to fall into the Sullivan/Cole trap of attacking her because she is a “Clinton” is bullshit. That is a short step from attacking her because she is a Democrat.
Remember, these guys leading the charge against Hillary were the ones at the forefront in the 90s against Bill Clinton and they attacked Bill all without your Arkansas knowledge, their dislike of him was based on the fact that he was a Democrat. What makes you think their dislike of Hillary is any different? Their just using the “Clinton” name as an excuse to attack Democrats and unfortunately they’ve gotten quite a few Democrats to join them.
I’ve made the decision I don’t want you in my party. Your comments in the past have indicated your affinity for the Democratic party is tenuous at best and will turn to active Zell Miller type hatred at the earliest opportunity. People like you and Lieberman are not good for the party, you’re like a cancer that needs to be identified as quickly as possible and then excised from the party.
Mark Penn, is that you? Don’t you have a presidential campaign to fuck up?
The Moar You Know
To: bawwling Hillary supporter
From: mean man who doesn’t like Hillary
Subject: The Clintons
Call whine-one-one and get the wahhhmbulance over to your house, stat. You’re about to die from having had your head up your ass too long.
…which is why Andrew Sullivan endorsed Kerry in 2004, and John Cole voted for Robert Byrd in 2006. Check.
Which is why they’re smearing Obama, another Democrat, and propping up McCain, a Republican. Gotcha.
No. Blind obedience does not strengthen a party, it weakens a party. What strengthens a party is this:
You seem to have forgotten the other half of the phrase.
Comparative difference in each party’s treatment of former presidents:
Actively work at destroying their reputation and legacy (Clinton)
Passively sit by while Republicans destroy their reputation and legacy (Carter)
Assert every good thing within 20 years (pre and post) of their presidency is due to their leadership (Reagan)
Actively work at diminishing the severity of their crimes (Nixon/Bush 1)
Name every goddamm thing after them
Well, shit! I’ll go change my registration then! Why the hell didn’t you tell me before?!? I mean, I am just like Lieberman and Zell Miller. Exactly like them, except for being much more liberal and all.
I cannot fucking believe you posted that.
F, Andrew Sullivan and all who have the open mindedness to see the error of their former thinking and can readjust it and admit it deserve respect.
Just like the democrats who supported the Clintons for years and slowly came to the same conclusions about the Clintons as some on the right have about their party.
It is the blindness that people like you who are not willing to step back and calmly and openly assess things that are the troubling ones.
I am a lifelong democrat who came to see the Clintons as they really are in the late 90s. And it turned me away from politics for a few years because I was so disillusioned and disgusted by what I saw.
When you have a Clinton sitting down and chatting with the architect of the Vast rightwing conspiracy and teaming up with these people to destroy a fellow democrat, you have to see that the Clintons only loyalty is to themselves and not the party or the supporters like you. She has essentially betrayed democrats, F.
In this thread, F projects his inner Zell onto Jen.
The Moar You Know
Thank goodness you’re on the case, making those tough decisions. Such a responsibility to bear.
Man, been a Democrat since I was 18 years old and I don’t even get a biopsy. But, if “F” says I must leave, who am I to quibble with “F”? I’m just glad I came here today. I really would hate to hurt the party, which is doing so crackerjack right now thanks to the Clintons.
A sure sign of a Clinton supporter.
but i thought she was ‘inoculated’! bulletproof and all that.
Hillary’s story about Bosnia reminds of this one time, during WWII, when me and Tom Hanks and Tom Sizemore searched France for Matt Damon. I am happy to report that we fucking found him!! And…that’s what happened.
p.s. Tom Hanks died.
Jeebus, the thread isn’t 20 minutes old and my fans are begging for my opinion.
Thanks to F, I have the chorus to “It’s My Party” in my head.
how exactly does losing the WH, both branches of Congress and capitulating to the GOP constitute being a loyal Democrat?
methinks someone has conflated personal loyalty and party loyalty.
Before spouting, please know your facts.
Sullivan endorsed John Kerry, woop tee fucking doo! Does anyone here think is Sullivan is any less of a highly partisan Republican.
Cole voted for Robert Byrd, so fucking what! Cole voted for a conservative Democrat after finally deciding that his chosen party was a group of corrupt, incompetent assholes.
I have no problem attacking them for propping up McCain, that is a big mistake on their part.
Nowhere did I call for blind obedience, however I do remember my history of the Republican attacks upon my Party leaders and their every action. I also remember quite a few Democrats sat by the sidelines and allowed the Republicans to define our leadership in a negative way. If calling for defense in face of personal attacks and slander is blind obedience, then where are my dark shades.
You know, it’s possible that “F” is not actually Howard Dean kicking me out of the Democratic party, and was just planning a little soiree of some kind and decided not to invite me. Even though I always bring a wine costing at least $12 but no more than $20, which I think is fair.
I think I’ll stay after all! Bring on the chemo, bitches!
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
F-you! Clinton is a lying, power-mad bitch.
The Gallup poll just out contains bad news for the Democrats.
I think John Cole may be sitting somewhere, regretting decisions he made in the past.
And I can’t say that I blame him.
Lemmee guess. Whatever it is, Obama does it too. Did I get it?
This isn’t about people who listen to Sullivan or Cole or any other Clinton bashers (by the by, why are notable Clinton bashers like Limbaugh, Coulter and Sciafe (!!!!! JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS SCIAFE DOING EVEN BEING IN THE SAME ROOM AS HILLARY!) siding with Clinton now?). This is about people like myself who once voted for Bill Clinton back in 1992 and 1996 because he represented a better choice for leadership back then, who are now unable to support neither him nor her because we are seeing more and more of the darker side of that couple: their self-centeredness, their obsession with winning at all costs, their hypocrisy. While all politicians have ambition, and all are capable of hypocrisy of statement vs. action, but for Hillary Clinton it is ambition and hypocrisy on steroids, with her it is too damn obvious and too terrifying to contemplate. She is acting more and more with the ruthlessness of Cheney, the immorality of Rove, and the blithe undeserved certainty of Bush. The worst of all possible GOP behavior traits.
J. Michael Neal
Go with My Parties. Much, much better. 3rd row in the pit at the Orpheum, July 12th, biotches.
I’ve seen this several times now on this thread and numerous times in the past.
Please explain what it is you saw in the Clinons that turned you off?
Please explain how this (whatever you saw) differs from every other politician?
Dug Jay, that doesn’t surprise me.
Way more lunatics in the democratic party than I ever thought existed.
(Want proof? Read the thread.)
Hillary’s story also reminded me of my time in “the nam”. I got shot in the neck and then I smoked pot with some black guys…and Willem DeFoe!!
p.s. Stear-clear of Tom Barenger. Guys kind of a dick!
Now this is the kind of loyal Democrat we need. This person can definitely stay.
F, let me see if I understand.
You are basically asserting that the democratic party is Clinton, and to not defend Clinton is to be against the party.
I had NO issue with Clinton until she started asserting that the OTHER PARTY’s nominee was better than the Democrat she was trying to beat. I was a Dodd supporter who was absolutely ambivalent about the final 2 until she started attacking Obama from the right.
I spent years, and I mean years, defending her to my Republican husband, and I had him convinced to vote for her, as obviously better than McCain, until she pulled that shit, and started saying that states she didn’t win don’t count, and then my Republican husband said “I told you so, I was right about her, all along” and he won’t support her now, and I won’t be able to bring him back. He’ll vote for Obama; he won’t vote for her.
If she ends up being the nominee, I’ll still vote for her, cuz Supreme Court, bitches, but I gotta tell you, every day that goes by, I see her as more of the shit I want behind us, and if I’m gonna have to live with that nasty, selfish, brutal, self serving shit, then let McCain be responsible for the mess we’ll have.
I’m not Clinton deranged – I’m Clinton fatigued, and she has brought it on, with her surrogates and bullshit, since Super Tuesday.
You mean the bit where my facts were right, and you were spouting? Lame; go troll somewhere else.
>>when the blue-collar workers she is courting see the money Bill has been raking in on the speaking circuit
Wow, I simply do not care about that at all. More power to him (them). They got raked over the coals for more than eight years, and now if they can earn some (a lot) of money talking about it, or anything else he’s asked to talk about, SO WHAT?!? I mean even if they weren’t raked over the coals, SO WHAT? Famous people are famously paid tons of money all the time to talk about stuff. Some are famous for stuff a lot less meaningful – like sports stars and entertainment celebrities – than ex-POTUS.
Exactly. So where’s the tax returns?
ntr Fausto Carmona
I figured ‘F’ was trolling/spoofing the instant he/she started off with a cut ‘n paste of someone else’s rant.
That poll was taken in the heat of an ugly primary fight.
Cooler heads will prevail this fall, when people are actually faced with the choice of John McCain’s Iraq plan vs. Barack Obama’s Iraq plan, and John McCain’s economic plan vs. Barack Obama’s economic plan.
I thought she had released some? Maybe I’m confused.
I don’t think it’s the money from the speaking they are worried about. I think it’s the money from the yellowcake in somethingStan that has them more worried.
ntr Fausto Carmona
The fun part is talking with those in the Hillarybunker who are frothing over how Wright will sink Obama yet Clinton is immune to anything the VRWC can throw at her. You just want to laugh and pat them on the head.
Not that I know of. At the last debate, she said she would April 15. Other than being the tax filing deadline, I have no idea why she chose that date or why it is superior to now.
assuming you are not just doing some half-assed trolling, i am one of those people who got fed up with Clinton in the late 1990s. the reasons are pretty straightforward: (1) the Monica mess became some sort of Clinton psychodrama that was wholly unnecessary and destructive to the legal fabric of the country. basically he put his personal needs ahead of the office. (2) he squandered a tremendous opportunity to move forward (remember the “peace dividend?”). (3) most of his policies were just GOP-lite: immigration and habeas “reform”, NAFTA, the end of welfare. not to mention the death of intelligent health care reform for a decade. so yeah, at the end of the day the Clintons pissed away a once in a hundred years opportunity to really do something positive for the US, for what–basically for keeping themselves in power. and at the end of it, they incidentally managed to damage the Ds so much that the GOP took over every branch of the federal government.
i think that’s enough, though i could probably come up with more if need be.
She’s part of it now. She probably is.
The Other Steve
I walked into a Navy recruiting office my senior year of college and talked to them as part of my job search.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Why is Clinton kissing up to Richard Mellon-Scaife?
Has the woman lost all self-respect and decency? First Power Mad Bitch kisses up to Murdoch and then she has Bill go kiss up to Rush Limbaugh and now Clinton is tossing the salad of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy that tried to destroy her and her husband.
Is there no bottom from which Hillary won’t feed?
This woman does not have the judgement or temperament to be POTUS. At this point I wouldn’t trust the lying bitch to run a PTA meeting.
The woman survived sniper fire, what’s she gotta do to get some cred?
Ezra Klein’s description is along the lines of, the Clintons say they have taken anything the Republican slime machine has thrown at them and kept on ticking. It’s really more accurate to say they’ve survived the Republican slime machine with heavy damage.
It’s also the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. Beware the Ides of April.
Hillary’s team is now spreading the “Obama’s an anti-semite” rumor:
Way to go, Hill and Bill, way to go.
wait… Obama already released his tax returns. McCain and Clinton haven’t.
ntr Fausto Carmona
I imagine that will last up until we have a definite nominee.
Yeah, um, “bile” is pretty much a spoof tell.
You might want to watch that you don’t blow your cover too early.
You know this is incredible to me; Bill Clinton the most successful Democrat since Kennedy and he not only doesn’t get the respect he deserves from his Party he is actually attacked by members of his Party. Believe me folks, the Republicans respect and fear him, why do you think they spent so much time and effort attacking him?
So explain to me again how Bill Clinton lost the WH, both branches of Congress and capitulated to the GOP?
Here’s some more polling data that was just released this morning that appears to support the Gallup results noted above:
Underlying data suggest that such feelings will not readily disappear after the nominee is selected.
Hillary released her schedule I believe. You got some dumb ass press articles about where she was when Clinton was getting a hummer. Really stupid stuff from the oh so serious press. Contemptible.
b. hussein canuckistani
Man, I don’t believe you people. F has Republicam shit-stirrer stamped all over his bloated fascist face, but he speaks and you people go after each other like a sack full of weasels.
Tell F you wouldn’t join his real party if Jeebus himself held a gun to your heads, and get back to shit that matters – Iraq, the economy, the climate, and who’s hot in BSG.
ntr Fausto Carmona
Is it OK to start using “Wenck and Steiner” references with regards to the Clinton campaign?
Can’t we all just get along?
I don’t particularly like Clinton. But I will gladly vote for her if she is nominated. The odds of her being nominated are slim to none, however. Obama has to implode in a catastrophic fashion in order for the superdels to go against the pledged delegate counts. I’ll live with that chance.
Frankly, if Clinton can make Obama implode, then McCain and the Conservative Devil of the Month Club would have no problem beating him silly in November.
Consider this period to be Obama’s vetting. November is a long way away, but the GOP economy will still stink on ice and the GOP war will still be as bad if not far worse. So take a deep breath … realize that anything Clinton drags out now inoculates Obama against it in the GE. Jeremiah Wright will be old news soon. It didn’t hurt Obama significantly … in fact, it gave the MUP the opportunity to spread his rainbow wings over the racial divide in America.
Clinton is digging into Obama for all she’s worth. It’s expected. It’s desirable. I’d rather find out now that Obama is a serial goat-fucker than find out later when the Serial Goat Fuckers for Truth hit the Hannity show. Obama is a better candidate for it, because he’s good enough, he’s tough enough, and dog-gone-it, people like him.
The Scaife thing is kind of odd for HRC, though. I’d have a real hard time sitting at a table with a guy who has spent millions of dollars to indulge in character assassination against myself and my family. Seriously, she should kick that bastard in the nuggets, not sit at a table and talk. Course, she should have dumped Bill’s belonging onto the front lawn of the White House back in ’97.
Finally! Something to comment on.
You know, I think I’d take Laura before Starbuck or Boomer (or even one of the toasters). Is there something wrong with me?
Not only that, the latest attack from camp Hillary is that Obama is “too liberal.”
Yeah, you read that right. He wants “single payer health care”, so he’s “too liberal” says the Republican-lite candidate.
WTF? I ask myself that about Hillary every fucking day now.
I thought mostly we were going after her…
We can’t really know if F is a Republican spooftroll or not until TZ makes a gender determination. That’s what I was waiting for.
Why the tax return meme?
Obama and His followers are taking the advice of the master:
I always knew I smelled the stench of Turdblossom.
Y’know, in the bubble of this blog (and other), commenters begin to think that the majority opinion expressed here is actually the majority opinion of the rest of the Party. This Rasmussen poll indicates that that is completely wrong. Only 22% of Democrats think that Hillary should drop out of the race, with another 22% saying that Obama should drop out. This 44% represent that hardcore fanatics for either candidate. The rest, the majority, of the Dems think that the race isn’t over, that both candidates need to stay in the race until the convention.
ntr Fausto Carmona
Translation: Its a good thing that Clinton is doing McCain’s oppo research!
I don’t follow BSG, but I cannot believe I have to wait a month for Lost. My DVR is not finding anything else that I normally watch to tape either. That, plus being a cancer and all, is kind of making my life teh suck.
Changing the subject to one of the canuckistani approved topics, did anyone see Dean Kamen’s water filtration invention on Colbert? It looked pretty cool, but given how the Segway was supposed to revolutionize transportation, I am skeptical. It must cost a kajillion dollars or something. Discuss.
The Moar You Know
What would Jesus shoot? Pistol, shotgun, or rifle? Semi-auto? Bolt action? Pump? So many questions.
I DID guess right! What do I win?
Then I don’t want you in my party.
It was three, but the exchange rate is killing us.
On the Scaife thing…in the last few years of the Bush Administration, Scaife has made an unbelievable turnaround. He has stated that he was wrong about Clinton, that he actually “wasn’t such a bad president. In fact, he was a pretty good president in a lot of ways.” He has made contributions to Bill Clinton’s African AIDS Relief foundation. So, to see him tentatively supporting Hillary Clinton is not really all that shocking.
Your parties have waaaaaaaaay too many creepy guys offering me wine coolers anyway, thanks. :)
Bill Clinton is an asshole for not keeping it in his pants, but how does that constitute grounds for impeachment? You do realize that the Republicans had a goal of getting Bill Clinton now matter what, six years and $50 million later they got him for getting a blowjob.
Failed Legislative Policies
Once the Republicans became the majority in the 2002 Congress NOTHING that would benefit the Democrats was going to pass. I”ll repeat, once the Republicans became the majority in the 2002 Congress NOTHING that would benefit the Democrats was going to pass. For a current example, see todays Republican minority and how they won’t allow anything to pass that would benefit the Democratic majority.
Legislative Policies that Passed
I agree, to pass any policies after 2002 Bill Clinton had to become a centrist, which is too conservative for me.
You’re a funny “girl.” :)
From last year:
Husband saw an awesome t-shirt that had a picture of Jesus hang-gliding, with the caption “What wouldn’t Jesus do?”
I thought it was pretty clever, and really, even if you were a Christian, I think you’d have to be a pretty humourless one to be offended by that.
The Moar You Know
The Republican troll gives itself away. Dems never considered Bill a “liberal”.
And, just to get a nagging question cleared up, are you drunk? Clinton wasn’t president in 2002. You repeat this three times, so it can’t be an accident.
Maybe bad copypasta, amirite?
Well, look what the ex-Republican and rabidly anti-Obama Larry Johnson, who not only voted for Bush but donated to his campaign, is hosting over at his blog.
I’ll stick with Cole, thank you. You may want to play MadLibs with that silly letter of yours and submit it at No Quarter or Taylor “Reagan Democrat” Marsh’s place.
Just make sure the cap’s still on when they offer it to you.
Tsk, Tsk orogeny for pointing that out.
You know it doesn’t match the rhetoric being pushed here.
The meme goes its OK for you to change you mind in a positive way about all the things you’ve gotten wrong; the illegal, immoral war, the corrupt, incompetent Republican Party, god forbid even Jane Hamisher. But if you’re to change your mind about the Clintons it must be in a negative way, thats the only way that counts.
Wow. Between 4tehlulz and The Moar You Know, it’s like a 4chan political discussion in here.
Meme away, guys!
probably because it’s far enough out that it won’t influence many primaries.
Well, now we know where that Tonya Harding meme originated. Straight from the Pony’s mouth.
He even plagiarizes himself.
That’s one way to look at it.
yeah, he sure slapped hillary with that label in that there speech, didn’t he.
well, it would take a devil worshipper to truly understand.
Hey myiq2xu, as well as being wrong on the substance, you ‘forgot’ the link and the other half of the report:
…works for me. I’ll be waiting for your endorsement of Obama now.
Hillary = turdblossom?
Because she pulled the same tax return bullshit on Rick Lazio in 2000. In fact, it was one of the centerpieces of her attacks on him.
But you know that already and are full of shit. As usual.
Y’all have been declaring victory ever since Iowa, haven’t you?
How is Bosnia playing? Carl Bernstein wrote this morning:
ZOMG John this is teh awesome.
Hillary: in 1975, I went into a Marines recruiting office and the recruiter said that I wasn’t qualified to be a Marine and one of the strikes against me was that I’m a female.
MoDo: hmmm… 1975, eh? Sounds fishy to me. Of course, it’s possible that the Clintons never actually were sleeping together. (knowing smile, flips hair)
Tapper: The memories of her friends and associates at the time are vague concerning thirty year old conversations. They all agree that the subject was active at the time, and none consider her actions in the story to be out of character for her, but in the absence of either some kind of official records tracking the movements of an obscure twenty-something lawyer or (preferably) some kind of magical scrying device, there remains enough room for doubt for me to file a story on it.
CDS: ZOMG SHE’S A LIAR!!!ONE!
F’s 2002 slipup=misspeak? wish? you decide.
as for the other um notions floating around here:
i didn’t say Clinton should have been impeached. he displayed monumentally poor judgment and as a consequence (a) handed the GOP a club and (b) guaranteed that national politics would be about him rather than about the direction the country should be going. if you want to call that leadership i suggest you start writing a new dictionary.
as i said above, the conflation of Clinton’s personal popularity with D popular election results is startling in that there is no connection. to assert Clinton’s popularity somehow helped the Ds is belied by their destruction as a force in national politics AND rather nicely underscores my point about conflating personal with political. Maybe Clinton is a nice guy. maybe his wife is too. but they demonstrated a contempt for everything in the US except themselves. the only difference now is that it’s playing out against other Ds so some folks who liked the Clintons can see it more readily.
reminds me of what happened on the right when the hard-core GOP types discovered Bush’s loyalties were with corporate America not with them.
Best concern troll evah!
Best concern troll evah!
Best concern troll evah!
Actually, you complete fucking idiot, it originated with Tonya Harding.
I’m surprised Hillary brought up the Marine recruiting office story at all, since that was when she was secretly recruited to join an elite black ops team.
Seems like a rookie mistake coming from someone who’s spent 30+ years conducting top-secret wetwork missions around the globe. Everyone at that luncheon should have been neutralized like Vince Foster and the little girl at the Tuzla airfield. Sloppy, Hillary, sloppy.
What a stupid non-story. MoDo used it as a jumping-off point for one of her vacuous exercises in onanism, for Christ’s sake. There’s no better argument for non-significance than that.
Maybe Hillary brought it on herself with the Tuzla nonsense, but Jesus. Just when you thought this campaign couldn’t get any stupider…
Good catch, I meant 1994.
Yes I agree Bill Clinton personal foibles handed the Republicans a club, but the Republicans had already made it about the Clintons.
The Republicans plan was to personalize the Democratic party in the form of the Clintons and then attack the Clintons as representative of the Democrats. They wanted to make the name Clinton as negative to Republicans and the country as a whole as the name Nixon is to Democrats. This tactic was continued to a lesser extent with Gore and Kerry and now has come roaring back with Hillary’s candidacy and unfortunately there are some Democrats who are now actively assisting the Republicans with this tactic.
And as far as your dislike of the Clintons, I asked these questions before and never got an answer:
Please explain what it is you saw in the Clinons that turned you off?
Please explain how this (whatever you saw) differs from every other politician?
For Bill, parsing the definition of “is”. For Hillary, well pretty much her entire campaign – particularly since Super Tuesday.
Wow, lowest commomn denominator, eh?
I realize that politicians distort things on a regular basis, but I am completely turned off by ridiculous spin. People who use their intellect and logic to derive illogical conclusions simply infuriate me.
Hence my revulsion to certain Clitnon trolls around here.
Look out Jen, your bourgeois deviationist wrecker tendencies have been exposed. Next thing you’ll be accused of being a rootless cosmopolitan.
You forgot the part where you are supposed to say:
“Comrades! It is no accident that…”
Honestly, could you possibly write anything more freaking Stalinist if you tried? When are the show trials scheduled for anyway?
Better trolls please!
Speaking only for myself, I’m just really, really tired of Presidents named Bush and Clinton. HRC is an acceptable choice for President, but her qualifications are thin, her baggage is weighty, and her negatives are high. Given that we have a viable alternative to a third Clinton administration, why not take it?
This isn’t so much CDS or BDS as it is “Bush-Clinton Fatigue” … spreading through the electorate like chlamydia in a high school cheerleading squad.
answered your question upthread, or in whatever thread you first posted that inquiry. dunno where it is in this lovefest but it’s there.
Does this count as a “Kinsley moment?”
An MUPpet accidentally telling the truth?
It’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to …
Choosing Bill Clinton’s paring of “is” as your defining moment on the Clintons tells me several things; you’re probably either very young or didn’t follow politics closely or maybe you just lived a sheltered life.
The man was fighting for his marriage, his political life, his reputation, his legacy and you call that your defining moment. My god, he was trying in any way possible to defend the indefensible, cut him some slack.
Hillary’s campaign to date has been tough and aggressive, and she has crossed the line in some areas (McCain support), however she has done nothing to warrant the constant drumbeat of negativity aimed at her personnaly. As I’ve said before, I don’t have a problem with attacking her on her policies or her politics, but the personal attacks should stop, especially from fellow Democrats.
This tells me that you’re just as bad as the rabid Bush supporters. There is apparently no wrong a Clinton can do that would stop you from defending them.
And FYI, I’m 31, have always followed politics closely (since I went to Washington DC on a Close Up trip when I was 14) and led a decidely unsheltered life, not that it’s any of your fucking business or has any relevance.
LOL, you giant ass.
Clinton used the tactic against Lazio ad infinitum and tried to beat Obama over the head with it until it backfired yesterday. But this is a MUPpet issue?
Do try to keep up. I know you’re engaged in heavy trolling on several fronts.
That “I never had sexual relations with that woman” thing? Where he implicitly promised his supporters that he never did nuffin’, and the whole thing was the continuation of the Paula Jones witch hunt? Well, except for that cigar, and the stain on the dress, and the meaning of “is”.
Clinton deserves no slack. Not cause he was getting his ashes hauled, but because he threw his supporters under the bus while he was attempting to “defend the indefensible”, as you call it. Clinton could have resigned, turned over the reins to Gore, and—who knows?—we might have been spared some of the last seven years.
Yes, the Starr investigation was a witch hunt, but in the end, Clinton gave them the opening they wanted.
Memories. I’m exactly twice your age, and did an intense DC experience at 15. I went there on my own (2500 miles across the US on a bus) but, without telling a long story, saw an insiders view of DC that few will ever see. To give you an example, I sat in the President’s Chair in the US Senate chamber, and banged the gavel. Visited the famous old desks on the Senate floor; the person showing me this stuff knew all the history and lore behind every stick of furniture and every scrap of rug in the place. It was mind boggling to a kid from Arizona, let me tell you.
Wow, you were a special 14 year old, I was too busy trying to get to first base with Dolly Figueroa to worry about elections.
As for cutting Bill Clinton slack, I’m a realist any person put in the position he was in would try there dammdest to defend the indefensible, its human nature. Is it right no, does it make sense no, but will humans lie and try to wiggle our way out of admitting we got caught, yes we will.
Also, before passing judgment on the Clinton’s political morals, why don’t you read a little history on Nixon and LBJ to learn about recent hardball politicians who could twist a phrase. Or, if you’re really into history read up on Andrew Jackson and his 1824 election to the presidency, it had everything we have today (Stolen Elections, unhappy marriages, adultery, etc) plus slavery.
You admit that it was a witch hunt and yet you still call for him to resign over a personal foible. I hope to God that you never screwup and have to admit your wrong doing to your love ones.
Your lack of empathy is breathtaking.
Um, Cole voted for Byrd not because Byrd is conservative for a Democrat but because Byrd is the Senator for Cole’s home state. Are you seriously suggesting you can’t take seriously Cole’s party switch because he didn’t move to another state at the same time?
sorry to be so hard on a consonant and all, but–
you keep harping on personality issues relating to Clinton–“empathy, screwup.” but that’s not the issue. leaders are supposed to be different, rightly or wrongly. i can have empathy for Clinton but that doesn’t change the fact that he did something stupid and squandered his leadership potential.
not coincidentally, this kind of personalization of the political is the same kind of thinking that gave us GWB as “likeable” and “person I’d rather have a beer with” as decision rule. 16 years of narcissism is enough.
Reading comprehension problems? Unless you consider Clinton’s cynical manipulation of his supporters “I never had sexual relations…”, and the ridiculous parsing of “is” a personal foible, that’s not what I said. My exact words were:
Sex with Monica? His business, Monica’s business, and Hillary’s business. Misleading and lying to his closest political supporters to cover his own ass, a reminder of Nixon. But at least Nixon had the decency to resign.
Well, my mom screwed me by having me skip grades so at 14 I was a Junior in High School who really couldn’t get to any base because unlike my fellow classmates I hadn’t reached puberty yet.
Funny that you presume I haven’t. Even funnier that you essentially just claimed “Nixon did it too!” That’s not how my moral compass works – I’m not much of a relativist. I don’t mind a politician turning a phrase, but I despise them twisting a phrase (one reason I loathe Bush in particular).
Sounds a lot like my experience, TZ.
I had never really traveled much before that and so going to DC to see the chambers of congress, tour the White House, the Pentagon and meet a lot of politicians was a very transformative experience.
I almost ran into Alcee Hastings trying to make an elevator in I think the Brayburn building, and then tried to get onto the ‘Congress Only’ elevator, which was occupied by Ted Kennedy (who let me on for a ride, which was very cool). I nearly got thrown out of the Supreme Court building for wearing a ski mask inside (security was not amused).
Al Gore’s limo almost ran me and my friends over behind the Capitol building, and we all watched with glee as he and his daughters exited. I got to sit down with Bob Graham and speak with him briefly and I was very struck by the kind of politician he was. He always had my respect from that moment on, and I was happy to have the opportunity to vote for him when I was old enough.
It was mind boggling to a kid from Florida, too.
Um, who *isn’t* hot on BSG??
Laura is very classy. Nothing wrong with being attracted to a lady.
You are not, it’s time to get a check-up for Alzheimers hon. I know how old you are better than YOU do.
When I heard you say “I’m a 62 year old…” several times last week, I let it fly, but, I did correct you after hearing that several times last week and you’re still at it. You are NOT 62, you’re 61.
Get with it, TZ! GEESH!
What’s interesting, TZ (and you, too , John S) is the ring of truth to both your stories…as opposed to say, a certain Presidential candidate with initials “HRC”. Your stories are about being in awe and understanding with respect of how much bigger and grander our system of government and what it stands for is (or should be) than each individual. Hillary Clinton? No, apparently NOTHING is bigger, and in fact it appears it is somewhat mind-boggling, at least to her, that any of it ever worked without her at the helm. I didn’t use to feel this way about her, but the brainless, soul-less campaign she is running really has disgusted and disappointed me.
But yes, if she happens to get the nomination I will hold my nose with one hand while I use the little chad-puncher thingee in the other and still vote for her.
No need to apologize, just wondering if you’re going to inflate your age again. ;) Next time just say you’re 5,683.
Just remember: Aging is Mandatory; Maturity is Optional.
Turning 58 on the 1st.
TA born on April Fool’s Day? I never would have guessed! ;) Have a happy TA.
See, people here DO pay attention sometimes. Yeah, it’s true, April 1st, 1950. Didn’t want to make it too obvious – wanted to see if anyone picked up on it.