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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / ZOMG OBAMA LIED

ZOMG OBAMA LIED

by John Cole|  March 31, 200811:02 am| 96 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, General Stupidity, I Read These Morons So You Don't Have To

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Courtesy of Captain Ed:

So what were Obama’s positions in 1996, according to the questionnaire that bears his handwriting?

* Opposed to parental notification on abortions. He amended this to say that he might possibly support it for 12- or 13-year-olds, but no older.
* Flatly opposed the death penalty, a position he denied ever having.
* Supported bans on the sale, possession, and manufacture of guns, again a position he denied ever taking.

***

Once again, we have more evidence that Obama represents nothing more than the political winds. He has zero credibility, zero experience, and a penchant for telling people what they want to hear rather than any truth about what he actually believes. Either he lied to IVI or he’s lying now. In either case, it’s hardly the New Politics Obama has promised.

I guess it would be pointless for me to point out that just a few years ago, I agreed with Captain Ed on a number of things. Now, I think he is a total hack and unflinching, unthinking partisan shill for the GOP.

Guess what? I was not lying then when I thought those things, and I am not lying now. I would argue Obama’s change in positions is exceedingly minor compared to mine. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

As a side note, I do have to admit that the best part of this upcoming election will be watching the folks who, without hesitation, assisted in the defense of the most patently dishonest admistration ever running around calling people liars. That, and listening to members of the party that brought you the Southern Strategy calling Obama a racist. Comedy gold.

*** Update ***

From the increasingly entertaining TalkLeft comments section (and yes, I am nutpicking), we have this blatant lie from Obama that the Clinton-hating LIEBERAL media don’t want you to know about:

he gave his famous anti-war speech in the middle of a heavily contested US Senate Race.

and while I think this is a little petty to nitpick over; he gave an interview with a sports mag where he said he was “raining threes” when he was 16. He should add inventing the three point line to his resume because his recollection of his athletic abilities predates the invention of the 3 point line.

That is it, I must now vote for Hillary.

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Reader Interactions

96Comments

  1. 1.

    rob!

    March 31, 2008 at 11:07 am

    chaning your mind is for liberal, terrorist-abetting pussies. only a real man makes a decision and sticks to it no matter how much reality crashes in around him.

  2. 2.

    ThymeZone

    March 31, 2008 at 11:12 am

    In order to change one’s mind, one must be open to new information and ideas, and be willing to employ thought.

    Clearly, these are dangerous notions, and must be stamped out whenever they are found. The last thing we need is a president who can change his mind.

    It’s fitting that an uppity negro would flaunt this kind of floppy-headed stuff and try to get away with it.

  3. 3.

    Zifnab

    March 31, 2008 at 11:13 am

    I guess it would be pointless for me to point out that just a few years ago, I agreed with Captain Ed on a number of things. Now, I think he is a total hack and unflinching, unthinking partisan shill for the GOP.

    FLIP FLOPPER! I’m never going to vote for you for President again, alleged-Professor John Cole.

    :-p So yeah, Ed is calling Barack a Pot in his defense of voting Kettle ’08. Surprise, surprise. You’ll undoubtably hear how Obama plans on starting a bunch of open ended wars and handing out billions in earmarks to lobbyist buddies by this time next November.

    What gets me laughing is how all the wingnuts were threatening to vote for “zero credibility, zero experience, and a penchant for telling people what they want to hear” Barack HUSSIEN Obama back when Romney was losing the nomination fight to McCain. That’s some epic candidate vetting right there. Oops! Almost voted for the racist, stealth Muslim, high tax, big government, gay-loving, gun control abortionist because I was too busy getting my hate on at that other guy.

    At what level of stupid are you required to surrender your right to vote?

  4. 4.

    jag

    March 31, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Logic implies there is a third possibility, along with Obama lying back then or lying now: Captain Ed is lying.

  5. 5.

    The Other Steve

    March 31, 2008 at 11:14 am

    John Cole is a lying flip flopper!

  6. 6.

    chopper

    March 31, 2008 at 11:24 am

    someone changed their mind on issues over the course of 12 years? get out of town!

  7. 7.

    Ninerdave

    March 31, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Any positions you held 12 years ago are immutable, damn it!

  8. 8.

    Len

    March 31, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Ask Cap’n Ed who he supported in the Republican primaries and who he is now having wet dreams about becoming veep? How many times need Flipper Romney change his mind about stuff? How many times did he lie? Go ahead, ask him. Dare you.

  9. 9.

    Jay B.

    March 31, 2008 at 11:26 am

    I don’t think it’s a lie, but is the new thing that Obama changed his mind in favor of the death penalty? That would be dispiriting.

  10. 10.

    Cyan

    March 31, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Please note: the Captain is indeed a hack. But…

    Here’s Ed’s assertion:

    – in 1996 Obama had certain policy positions
    – Obama *presently* claims that he never held those positions

    If we translated what Captain Ed is saying about Obama into your metaphor, it would be like you saying, “I have never agreed with Captain Ed.”

  11. 11.

    bootlegger

    March 31, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Logic implies there is a third possibility, along with Obama lying back then or lying now: Captain Ed is lying.

    You mean you don’t except his word that Obama denied ever taking these positions? Captain Ed can’t bear false witness because his awesome god will put a beat down to hell on him. Thus, he can’t be lying.

    Didn’t McBush change his mind on immigration? And the crazy white preachers? And Bush’s taxcuts? And….oh, never mind.

  12. 12.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 11:32 am

    i wonder what the signed “amendment” actually says…

    not that i don’t trust the honesty and integrity of the Politico, of course.

  13. 13.

    sparky

    March 31, 2008 at 11:32 am

    i didn’t like cheetos then and i don’t like ’em now.
    on the other hand, i didn’t like brussel sprouts when i was a kid.

    omg guess they got me.

  14. 14.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 11:34 am

    I don’t think it’s a lie, but is the new thing that Obama changed his mind in favor of the death penalty? That would be dispiriting.

    I agree.

    It’s pretty sad when you can’t get elected in this country unless you express some degree of zeal for killing people.

  15. 15.

    Jake

    March 31, 2008 at 11:45 am

    The only thing this page has:

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

    on the death penalty is that he battled against it legislatively.

    Make of it what you will. Googling around there seems to be evidence that his position isn’t firmly one way or the other on this.

    Look, his signature legislation in the Illinois Senate was to get videotaping of confessions. That’s the work of someone concerned about the wrong people ending up on death row, which seems to me to be a reasonable position.

  16. 16.

    Dulcie

    March 31, 2008 at 11:55 am

    And the crazy white preachers?

    As I have learned over the past month, there are no crazy white preachers – only black ones.

  17. 17.

    Svensker

    March 31, 2008 at 11:55 am

    The only thing this page has:

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

    on the death penalty is that he battled against it legislatively.

    Thanks for the link. I’m an Obamabot simply because he has been more anti-war than any other viable candidates and he seems very smart. But I was happy to find myself in agreement with many of his positions. Not all, but more than I (as a former Repub) expected. Even tho Fox told me this morning that the MUP was an extreme liberal. Funny, they never mention that McCain is an extreme idiot, not to mention an extreme war-monger. Ho hum.

  18. 18.

    ntr Fausto Carmona

    March 31, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Obama was 16 in 1977-78.

    One of George Mikan’s first acts as ABA commissioner was to introduce the three-point line. This was in 1967.

    TalkLeft needs some better basketball-savvy Obama haters.

  19. 19.

    bootlegger

    March 31, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Obama was 16 in 1977-78.

    Exactly, and I still think REO Speedwagon is the greatest rock band evah!!! If I changed my tune I would no longer be viable to run for president.

  20. 20.

    Tim C

    March 31, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    I have now reached the O.J. Simpson trial stage. I don’t want to see or hear one more story regarding the search for a Democratic Presidential nominee. Just tell me when a verdict has been reached (there’s a real nominee). I don’t want to hear any more from Howard Dean, Howard Wolfson or anyone else connected with either campaign. When the convention is over, let me know who got picked.

  21. 21.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    One of George Mikan’s first acts as ABA commissioner was to introduce the three-point line. This was in 1967.

    TalkLeft needs some better basketball-savvy Obama haters.

    I believe that was brought up and evolved into a discussion about whether or not Hawaii had access to the ABA.

    The real story here is that Obama appears to be a supporting perimeter player when these challenging times call for a tough inside guy or power forward. ;)

  22. 22.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Exactly, and I still think REO Speedwagon is the greatest rock band evah If I changed my tune I would no longer be viable to run for president.

    I’m pretty sure that disqualifies you already.

  23. 23.

    Zifnab

    March 31, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I agree.

    It’s pretty sad when you can’t get elected in this country unless you express some degree of zeal for killing people.

    Meh. Dukhakis stepped in it pretty hard when he played the “I wouldn’t want to avenge the murder of my ex-wife” card. And that’s understandable. People are supposed to get angry at murder, and not approving of the death penalty’s mechanisms is a great deal different that not wanting to see murderers get executed.

    If we knew – 100% of the time – that the guy we were executing was guilty, I’d say let’m fry. Murder is bad, M’kay? So if Obama has changed his position on how we deal with serial rapist-murderer cannibal REO Speedwagon fans, I can’t fault him for that. But then he’s falling into the same “ticking timebomb” morality trap that Republicans so love to throw out. We postulate the worst case scenario in order to justify the most draconian defensive techniques.

    I’d like to see exactly where and how Obama “changed his position”, because he’s rarely so fast and loose with his policy positions that he’ll just change a “No” to a “Yes” without any clarification. Something makes me think Cap’n Ed is, once again, either wrong or full of shit. I wouldn’t run off and tear up my Obama ’08 bumper sticker just yet, if I were you.

  24. 24.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    So if Obama has changed his position on how we deal with serial rapist-murderer cannibal REO Speedwagon fans, I can’t fault him for that.

    You make a good case.

  25. 25.

    smiley

    March 31, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    I believe that was brought up and evolved into a discussion about whether or not Hawaii had access to the ABA.

    Regardless of whether the ABA was seen in Hawaii, my friends and I would award 10 points for a kickoff returned for a touchdown in touch football. Kids make up their own rules.

  26. 26.

    calipygian

    March 31, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Barack may have been “raining threes” when he was 16, but when Hillary was sixteen, she was known as a real run-n-gunner who could snipe from the perimeter with the best of them.

  27. 27.

    Mike D

    March 31, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Speaking about racism John, you seen what Kos dropped?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/31/122813/481/516/487646

    Yay Lou Dobbs! His racism is for everyone!

  28. 28.

    jake

    March 31, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Shorter Pegboy Ed: I still hate McCane, so I’m going to worry about a guy I wouldn’t vote for even if Jesus, Mary and Joseph vouched for him.

  29. 29.

    Tigerella

    March 31, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    So many nutcases in this country. I’ve been saying for a while now that liberals which have what I believe are extreme positions (For example, a former friend once said: “Someone broke into my car and stole some things. I feel badly for them.”) suffer from “liberal dementia.” Now I’m convinced that extreme right wingers suffer an even more severe mental defect that I’ll call “conservative dementia.”

    Such mental sickness in our country. These delusional people on the extreme right and left ends, they make all those poor souls roaming the streets mumbling to themselves seem almost normal.

  30. 30.

    4tehlulz

    March 31, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    OBAMA LIED PEOPLE DI…

    Never mind.

  31. 31.

    John S.

    March 31, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    Ed Rendell says things that make you go hmmm:

    “I think during this entire primary coverage, starting in Iowa and up to the present — FOX has done the fairest job, and remained the most objective of all the cable networks. You hate both of our candidates. No, I’m only kidding. But you actually have done a very balanced job of reporting the news, and some of the other stations are just caught up with Senator Obama, who is a great guy, but Senator Obama can do no wrong, and Senator Clinton can do no right.”

    Hillary and crew have lost their damned minds.

  32. 32.

    joe

    March 31, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    he said he was “raining threes” when he was 16

    Not surprising. He’s demonstrated pretty clearly that he can make the most of an outside shot.

  33. 33.

    demimondian

    March 31, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Damn it, John Cole is a flying lip flapper!

    Hey, listen, John…is Talk Left moving into “Blogs we read and mock as needed” ground?

  34. 34.

    Lee

    March 31, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Can you please not make a link to HotAir? Or at least put a warning next to it. :)

    I sometimes click without reading the url before hand and I REALLY hate giving them traffic.

    thanks,

  35. 35.

    Zifnab

    March 31, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I think during this entire primary coverage, starting in Iowa and up to the present—FOX has done the fairest job, and remained the most objective of all the cable networks.

    There’s actually a long pause after that first sentence, because Mr. Rendell realizes he’s missing Prime Time Cavuto coverage of how nipple slips impact the future of a Kim Kardashian music video.

  36. 36.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Exactly, and I still think REO Speedwagon is the greatest rock band evah

    OT, I thought it was The Who but I wanted to be sure so I googled it. Found this at Answers.Yahoo.com

    What Is The Greatest Rock Band Of All Time

    Don’t panic but there’s only one day left to answer.

  37. 37.

    demimondian

    March 31, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    As I have learned over the past month, there are no crazy white preachers – only black ones.

    There are black white preachers? Who knew?

  38. 38.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Not surprising. He’s demonstrated pretty clearly that he can make the most of an outside shot.

    Haha.

  39. 39.

    Krista

    March 31, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    When you start praising Fox news for being fair, you need to take a really long look at yourself and what you’ve become.

  40. 40.

    Ted

    March 31, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    I clicked through the HotAir link, and all of sudden this loud screaming started coming from the PC speakers. Is this normal? It sounded like a really angry Asian lady.

  41. 41.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    What Is The Greatest Rock Band Of All Time

    from the comments:

    If you’re talking about old bands, Led Zeppelin. If not just old bands, then Evanescence all the way.

    a) does the phrase “of all time” include all time, or just the present ?
    b) Evanescence ?????!!!!

  42. 42.

    4tehlulz

    March 31, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    >>I think during this entire primary coverage, starting in Iowa and up to the present—FOX has done the fairest job, and remained the most objective of all the cable networks.

    Is Gov. Rendell on Murdoch’s payroll like Hillary?

  43. 43.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Yay Lou Dobbs! His racism is for everyone!

    Oh Jesus, that was funny as hell.

    I Know Black Folks Disclaimer: Lou can complain about folks not wanting to discuss racial issues on his terms but people of color won’t accept his terms if he leads with a phrase like “cotton-picking”. I am reliably informed it is a sore subject.

  44. 44.

    Ed

    March 31, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    and while I think this is a little petty to nitpick over; he gave an interview with a sports mag where he said he was “raining threes” when he was 16. He should add inventing the three point line to his resume because his recollection of his athletic abilities predates the invention of the 3 point line.

    Um… the 3 point line was invented in the old ABA, and dates back to the 1960’s. Any true basketball fan knows that. I was “draining threes” LONG before the NBA, in 1979, and the NCAA, (in 1981?) put the three point shot into their repective games. So the poster on TalkLeft is flat out wrong. I’m going to go tell them anyone have a guess on how that will go?

  45. 45.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Cyan wrote:

    Please note: the Captain is indeed a hack. But…

    Here’s Ed’s assertion:

    – in 1996 Obama had certain policy positions – Obama presently claims that he never held those positions

    If we translated what Captain Ed is saying about Obama into your metaphor, it would be like you saying, “I have never agreed with Captain Ed.”

    Just ignoring this one?

  46. 46.

    jeff

    March 31, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Actually wikipedia send the 3-point all the way back to the 30’s. It was first made a league rule in the early 60’s by the American Basketball League (which lasted from ’61 to ’63) one of whose teams was…. the Hawaii Chiefs. So perhaps the best knowledge of basketball in Hawaii came from a short lived pro team that played there once making the 3 point shot common amongst Hawaiians.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal

  47. 47.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Um… the 3 point line was invented in the old ABA, and dates back to the 1960’s

    according to Wiki, the concept goes back to at least the 30’s. it just took a while to be formally adopted in the big leagues.

  48. 48.

    John Cole

    March 31, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Just ignoring this one?

    No. I thought the Politico piece was pretty clear. There were two questionaires, one of which he didn’t approve the other of which he did and was amended. Which leads us back to where we were when I wrote this post. ZOMG HE LIED BECAUSE HIS POSITIONS CHANGED IN 12 YEARS.

    If I am misreading the Politico piece, fill me in.

  49. 49.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 31, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    The real story here is that Obama appears to be a supporting perimeter player when these challenging times call for a tough inside guy or power forward.

    I agree. That’s why I heartily endorse Charles Oakley for president. Sure, he was a dick, but he was the last true tough guy the NBA has seen, and if The Terrorists think they’re going to be racking up cheapies on offensive rebounds with president Oakley in office, they better think again!

  50. 50.

    The Other Steve

    March 31, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Speaking about racism John, you seen what Kos dropped?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/31/122813/481/516/487646

    Yay Lou Dobbs! His racism is for everyone!

    I saw that at atrios. It’s funny. I think it just shows to Dobbs the inherent attitudes trapped in society. I don’t think he intended anything by it, it was a slip up, and he seems to have realized his mistake. I hope he learns from it.

  51. 51.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Maybe I’m reading it wrong…doesn’t the amended questionnaire, the one with his handwritten notes on it, contain the positions that he now denies ever having taken? And, doesn’t Obama claim that even the handwritten notes don’t “prove he completed, approved — or even read — the latter questionnaire”? I don’t think that Captain Ed (who is an idiot now and was an idiot when you thought he was da bomb)is nitpicking the difference between the two documents, but the fact that Obama is claiming that neither of the docs actually represent his positions.

  52. 52.

    DougJ

    March 31, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    This is bad news for Democrats.

    Obama was cheating at basketball while John McCain was being tortured. Wonder how voters will feel about that? Just like I wonder how the guys on the other team felt when Obama convinced the score keeper to award three points for his 18 foot jumpers. Seems to me he’s employing the same kind of “creative score keeping” with his delegate count.

    Has anyone checked out what kind of countertops this guy has?

  53. 53.

    libarbarian

    March 31, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    I’m still waiting for Hillary to inadvertently reveal her true motives: “We must haves it. We must haves … THE PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

  54. 54.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    but the fact that Obama is claiming that neither of the docs actually represent his positions.

    which is why i’d like to know what his amendment says.

  55. 55.

    J. Michael Neal

    March 31, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    The greatest band of all time is Dire Straits. Rush is a close second.

  56. 56.

    4tehlulz

    March 31, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Larry Johnson undoubtably have a nutty about this:

    50 Cent no longer supports Clinton

    When you lose Fitty, you lose the nation.

  57. 57.

    4tehlulz

    March 31, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    That’s why I heartily endorse Charles Oakley for president.

    Oakley/Laimbeer ’08!!! They will elbow their way to the presidency!

  58. 58.

    Tom in Texas

    March 31, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    I agree. That’s why I heartily endorse Charles Oakley for president. Sure, he was a dick, but he was the last true tough guy the NBA has seen, and if The Terrorists think they’re going to be racking up cheapies on offensive rebounds with president Oakley in office, they better think again!

    Charles Oakley approves of this message.

    He strongly suggests you approve of it too.

    (sound of knuckles cracking)

  59. 59.

    John Cole

    March 31, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Maybe I’m reading it wrong…doesn’t the amended questionnaire, the one with his handwritten notes on it, contain the positions that he now denies ever having taken? And, doesn’t Obama claim that even the handwritten notes don’t “prove he completed, approved — or even read — the latter questionnaire”? I don’t think that Captain Ed (who is an idiot now and was an idiot when you thought he was da bomb)is nitpicking the difference between the two documents, but the fact that Obama is claiming that neither of the docs actually represent his positions.

    I will wait until the right wing in conjunction with Talk Left and the Clinton campaign force them to respond. Otherwise, I am willing to recognize a big difference between a new poitician finessing his positions over the course of 12 years and someone lying out their ass about being shot at by snipers.

    And that is what this is all about. Clinton counter-attacking to deflect from her lies. It is funny that many of you all don’t seem to recognize Bush Republican tactics when used by Democrats, but that is what the Clinton camp is doing. It sure as hell stands out to me.

  60. 60.

    cbear

    March 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    I saw that at atrios. It’s funny.

    If you want funny, go here:

    Conservative Caught in Sex Scandal

    This time it’s Nazi-style sex games.
    Freaking unbelievable, you just couldn’t make this shit up.

    Seriously folks, with the recent revelations of toe-tapping, cross-dressing, wetsuit-wearing, conservative hijinks (and all the other weird as shit stuff)—I’m starting to think that every goddamn gooper I meet is hiding some scary-as-shit sexual predeliction that would have Larry Flynt blushing like a schoolgirl.

    I mean, Jesus Christ on a crutch, I’ve never even heard of half this shit, much less realized that actual human beings were engaged in it.

    I’m just hoping John Cole’s conversion to the forces of light came in time to save him from being indoctrinated into some hideous gooper sex cult.

  61. 61.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    March 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    a’la Tigerella:

    Such mental sickness in our country. These delusional people on the extreme right and left ends, they make all those poor souls roaming the streets mumbling to themselves seem almost normal.

    AAAAAActually, it’s called “boredom”. Or, better yet, being an Epic Failure.. Note that jobless yoga-instructing liberal nuts cluster around college towns, and that I’ll-look-for-a-job-tomorrow conservative nuts stay at home and blog on their Walmart computers. Professional con-nuts simply fill the airwaves with hot air; they don’t do journalism.

    When you’ve got energy, but you won’t take on a challenge, or a job, or anything of value, you become like them.

    A normal person says “I’m voting for X because of Y”, and then goes back to work. These jobless, cheeto-poisoned cellar inhabitants instead continue, saying “I’m not voting for Z because of W, and futhermore, Z is like Bush Putin Stalin Mussolini Hitler!”

    Free time is bad for you.

  62. 62.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    John,

    I’d love to read your reaction if Clinton claimed that she’d never held a particular position and then someone produced a document with her handwritten notes on it that showed that she had. Then, to top to off, she claims that her handwritten notes don’t prove that she actually read or agreed with what was contained in the document.

    I’m sure you’d just write it off as her simply “finessing her posititons.”

  63. 63.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    I’m starting to think that every goddamn gooper I meet is hiding some scary-as-shit sexual predeliction that would have Larry Flynt blushing like a schoolgirl.

    maybe that’s why conservative girls don’t like liberal guys: libs don’t have enough freaky fetishes.

  64. 64.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    March 31, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    And that is what this is all about. Clinton counter-attacking to deflect from her lies. It is funny that many of you all don’t seem to recognize Bush Republican tactics when used by Democrats, but that is what the Clinton camp is doing. It sure as hell stands out to me.

    John, I may be on your side, but I gotta keep you honest.

    Address this, for everyone’s sake:

    There is an allegation that Obama has denied the positions on these papers ever existed. Please prove this allegation is false, or comment on any following conclusions if the the allegations are — or may be — true.

    (It doesn’t matter to me, Obama is leagues ahead of these other twerps, but a gaffe is a gaffe, and “This is about Clinton” — while true — is a dodge)

  65. 65.

    John Cole

    March 31, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    There is an allegation that Obama has denied the positions on these papers ever existed. Please prove this allegation is false, or comment on any following conclusions if the the allegations are—or may be—true.

    How the hell can I prove it is false?

  66. 66.

    Krista

    March 31, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Rush is a close second

    Ick. Rush. Geddy Lee always sounds like he has his nuts caught in an eggbeater. Rush is one of the few bands that will actually make me change the radio station, rather than listen to that incessant whining.

  67. 67.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    March 31, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    maybe that’s why conservative girls don’t like liberal guys: libs don’t have enough freaky fetishes.

    No, it’s because conservatives have only one fetish: to be physically, emotionally, and/or psychologically locked in the closet. Liberals would rather do a Cleveland Steamer than get back in the closet.

    /The More You Know

  68. 68.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    March 31, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    How the hell can I prove it is false?

    I mean take a whack at it. I’m not going to check your work.

    You’re addressing the issue but not resolving it, and that gives the Clintonistas fuel to throw on your awaiting stake. Be a pro: tie this off and kill the oxygen.

  69. 69.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I’m just hoping John Cole’s conversion to the forces of light came in time to save him from being indoctrinated into some hideous gooper sex cult.

    John, did you partake of The Pleasures Which Defy Catrgorization in your old life? There’s no judgment here, only love. If you have anything you want to share this is the time. I’ll get the tissues and baby oil.

  70. 70.

    DougJ

    March 31, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Geddy Lee always sounds like he has his nuts caught in an eggbeater.

    Geddy Lee has nuts?

  71. 71.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    orogeny Says:

    John,

    I’d love to read your reaction if Clinton claimed that she’d never held a particular position and then someone produced a document with her handwritten notes on it that showed that she had. Then, to top to off, she claims that her handwritten notes don’t prove that she actually read or agreed with what was contained in the document.

    I’m sure you’d just write it off as her simply “finessing her posititons.”

    That pretty much happened regarding Clinton’s lies about her NAFTA position when activists successfully sued to have her White House First Lady schedule released and discovered documents that proved she was instrumental in lobbying for NAFTA.

    What did JC have to say about that?

  72. 72.

    Svensker

    March 31, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    So, I finally went over to Ed’s and read his post and a few of the comments. These people are calling Obama a liar? These people? After 7 years of George “WMD” Bush? And Obama is an “extremist” for opposing the death penalty? After 7 years of George “Let’s Bomb anyone I want to” Bush? Give me a break. It really is time to move out of this country. Don’t have a choice about being on the same planet on these “people”, but I can sure vote with my feet. Love it or leave it? It’s not much of a choice anymore, after 7 years of these assholes.

  73. 73.

    libarbarian

    March 31, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    How the hell can I prove it is false?

    So, therefore, you must admit it is true!!!!*

    *Example of the Socraconservative Method.

  74. 74.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    So, I finally went over to Ed’s and read his post and a few of the comments. These people are calling Obama a liar?

    which is also funny because… well, here’s Ed, playing Perry Mason:

    This makes no sense at all. If Obama’s handwriting is on the survey, then he filled it out.

    aha! caught him red handed!

    but if you follow the links (to the Politico, then to the earlier Politico article), and you look at the scan of the actual questionnaire in question (not the amendment, which Obama admits he wrote), you’ll see that it was (…wait for it…) typed.

    or, maybe Obama can write in perfect Courier.

    so, who’s the liar now, Specious Ed!

  75. 75.

    Ted

    March 31, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    So, I finally went over to Ed’s and read his post and a few of the comments.

    Did you hear the screaming coming from your PC speakers? That site shrieks like a banshee.

  76. 76.

    Bruce Moomaw

    March 31, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Yup; that “Politico” article really does prove that Obama is lying about the fact that he (moderately) modified some of his 1996 positions, and that he is now (slightly) less liberal than he was then. Rather like (although far smaller than) McCain lying about his sudden 180-degree change of position on Bush’s tax cuts, or his sudden switch to accepting that torture (if done by the CIA rather than the military) is a Good Thing. So, if — like “Captain” Ed (who is himself clearly implying that he has military experience when he doesn’t) — you yourself happen to think that the Bush tax cuts are erasing the deficit (which they aren’t), and that frequent torture unmonitored by the courts is a Good Thing, you are plainly going to prefer McCain to Obama. Big surprise.

    While we’re at it, the Washington Post uncovered two days ago the fact that Obama also lied about the extent to which the Kennedy Administration played a role in his father’s being admitted into America for his education. Shocking, isn’t it?

  77. 77.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    In both versions of the questionnaire, Obama answers “No” to the question Do you support capital punishment and “Yes” to the question “Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.”

    But a fact sheet provided by his campaign flatly denies Obama ever held those views, asserting he “consistently supported the death penalty for certain crimes but backed a moratorium until problems were fixed.” And it points out that as a state senator, he led an effort to reform Illinois’ death penalty laws.

    On guns, the fact sheet says he “has consistently supported common-sense gun control, as well as the rights of law-abiding gun owners.”

    This is a little bit more than a moderate modification or a bit of finessing.

  78. 78.

    Snowboardjones

    March 31, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    I forgot who to credit for this peral of wisdom, but Geddy Lee sounds like a cross between Robert Plant and Donald Duck.

  79. 79.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    This is a little bit more than a moderate modification or a bit of finessing.

    you will note that Obama says he didn’t fill out the questionnaire.

    so, your choices are:
    a) prove Obama is lying about that
    b) accept that he isn’t

  80. 80.

    theturtlemoves

    March 31, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Rush is one of the few bands that will actually make me change the radio station, rather than listen to that incessant whining.

    Madam, while I agree with many of your other posts, this shall not stand. For that, you deserve a serious beatdown from the priests of the Temple of Syrinx, aided by today’s Tom Sawyer and his mean, mean pride. And aren’t you Canadian? Would you rather be known as the country that gave us Rush, Barenaked Ladies, and Leonard Cohen or the terrorists who inflicted Celine Dion, Avril Lavigne and Helen Reddy on the world?

    Wait, I just cited three male groups/individuals as good Canadians and three women as bad Canadians. With my support of Obama, I’m now sexist in two countries. Sweet.

  81. 81.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    you will note that Obama says he didn’t fill out the questionnaire.

    So, his handwritten notes don’t prove anything? He just happened to pick up the questionnaire to doodle on…never actually read it.

    Jeeze, I understand that ya’ll are completely invested in the concept that Obama is perfect and Hillary is the devil, but your rationalizing is beginning to look silly.

  82. 82.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    In both versions of the questionnaire, Obama answers “No” to the question Do you support capital punishment and “Yes” to the question “Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.”

    Is it possible the questionnaires are fakes? Can we elicit the help of some kerning specialists from the rightwing blogs?

  83. 83.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    So, his handwritten notes don’t prove anything? He just happened to pick up the questionnaire to doodle on…never actually read it.

    they prove he made some notes on some pages that were ultimately faxed along with some other papers. i may have missed them, but i haven’t seen any handwritten notes on the questionnaire pages themselves, on any of the PDFs at Politico. all the handwritten stuff was on the cover-letterish pages.

  84. 84.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Jeeze, I understand that ya’ll are completely invested in the concept that Obama is perfect and Hillary is the devil, but your rationalizing is beginning to look silly.

    I’m honestly not understanding the scandal here. Break it down for me, tell me exactly what I should be outraged about and I’ll try to work up some emotion. I’m one of the few Carville supporters on this site so you can expect a fair shake.

    Lay it out there. (Keep in mind it’s gotta be important enough to make me kiss off twelve hundred dollars worth of campaign contributions and 22 hours of phonebanking for Obama.)

  85. 85.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 31, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Oakley/Laimbeer ‘08

    “Pounding the glass of opportunity, and sticking the open jumper of freedom! (Also, kicking the bad guys in the junk.)”

  86. 86.

    Krista

    March 31, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Would you rather be known as the country that gave us Rush, Barenaked Ladies, and Leonard Cohen or the terrorists who inflicted Celine Dion, Avril Lavigne and Helen Reddy on the world?

    Cancel out Rush and write in The Trews, The Tragically Hip, Jeff Healy, k.d. lang, or any other of the MANY Canadian groups/artists whose vocals aren’t painful to listen to, and I’ll completely agree with your sentence.

  87. 87.

    ImJohnGalt

    March 31, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    theturtlemoves Says:

    or the terrorists who inflicted Celine Dion, Avril Lavigne and Helen Reddy on the world?

    Sorry, mate. Helen Reddy was cast forth ‘pon the world from those folks down under.

  88. 88.

    theturtlemoves

    March 31, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Krista, I will concede your point only because I’m well aware of the polarizing effect of Geddy’s vocals. You don’t find a lot of people who kind of like Rush. You have rabid fans like myself or people that find it not unlike nails on a chalkboard, but not a lot of fence sitters. And I stand corrected on Helen Reddy. I absolve Australia of that crime for giving us Midnight Oil, INXS, and ACDC, however. Sure that last band only really has one song, but that one song is pretty catchy every time they record it with a new name.

    To balance things out, I’d add Gordon Lightfoot as a negative, but I kind of like Sundown and Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

    /End Music-related thread hijacking, with apologies

  89. 89.

    Bruce Moomaw

    March 31, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Once again, what we are seeing is the (shocking!) revelation that politicians — when they switch to running for another office, with a different constituency — very often twiddle with their previous positions. McCain, of course, is included prominently among the Twiddlers, and has done it far more spectacularly than Obama — although you’d never guess it from listening to Captain Ed.

  90. 90.

    orogeny

    March 31, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    I’m honestly not understanding the scandal here. Break it down for me, tell me exactly what I should be outraged about and I’ll try to work up some emotion. I’m one of the few Carville supporters on this site so you can expect a fair shake.

    I honestly don’t think there’s that much of a scandal. I’m just amused when Saint Barack shows that he can lie just as well as any other politician, the Obama supporters here touch the back of their head to their heels to demonstrate that it doesn’t matter. As I intimated earlier, if the identical circumstances applied to Hillary, this thread would have consisted of a chain of comments telling us all what a sleazy liar she was and how it demonstrated that she’d say anything to win the nomination.

  91. 91.

    West Coast libertarian

    March 31, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Helen Reddy

    I think she’s Australian

  92. 92.

    athensboy

    March 31, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    I used to read Captain Ed every nite, then he quit being fair and a total partisan hack like John said. It was almost like he was ordered to. He changed completely in about a 3 month time frame. Ed is just a assclown now, don’t waste time going there.

  93. 93.

    cleek

    March 31, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    . I’m just amused when Saint Barack shows that he can lie just as well as any other politician,

    prove it, or can it.

  94. 94.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 31, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    I honestly don’t think there’s that much of a scandal.

    Well, at least we can thank you for wasting our fucking time before you go.

  95. 95.

    orogeny

    April 1, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Any time, Fuckhead. You’re welcome.

  96. 96.

    tbock

    April 1, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Sorry, got cut off.

    …as well as the top-down means used to float the scandal. I guess this means that Turdbllossom is on the job.

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