I have not been following along, but what is the deal with American Airlines? And how long before there is a bailout?
*** Update ***
Almost as soon as I hit publish, it occurred to me that my poorly written and short post has opened me up to all sorts of jackassery in the comments. I understand they are grounded for maintenance problems, but was wondering if there was any backstory- how long has this been going on, is it something that until recently was overlooked, etc.
Con Mhac
Obviously the problem is that they are over-regulated. If they weren’t required to maintain their planes, they would still be flying (most of them). The government should just get out of their way. If it weren’t for Democrats, there would be no such thing as delayed flights.
Rick Taylor
Jon Stewart had a segment on airline safety and corruption in the FAA in case anyone missed it. Not specifically about American.
Dennis - SGMM
American, among others, made a little deal with the FAA where they put off indefinitely some of those pesky required inspections. When word finally got out that airplanes might fall out of the sky if the inspections were delayed long enough, those airlines are now playing catch up. Of course, the fact that they’re doing so in a way so as to inconvenience the maximum number of passengers is in no way a strategy to create enough public pressure to allow them to forgo future inspections.
BFR
I think this is probably part of it. I’m under the impression that the bulk of their problems are with the MD-80s that are getting to the end of their service lives. American has a ton of them and as far as I know hasn’t actively been retiring them in recent years, so they have a combo of increased scrutiny on top of the aging fleet, so they’ve had to shut down to play catch up. That’s my guess at least.
Dennis - SGMM
Like this? John, the passengers can’t bail out no matter how bad things get in the air.
binzinerator
Don’t all your posts open you up to all sorts of jackassery here, whether well written or not?
Which is why I keep coming back. I’m here for the jackassery.
Uh, what was the post about again?
BFR
From the less literal standpoint, I’m not sure I see where a bailout would need to happen. This is an issue right now that appears to be limited to SWA and AA – both of which have pretty consolidated fleets (which would tend to exacerbate the problems), so the other carriers would fight tooth and nail any legislative actions to help AA, unless the other carriers were playing the same games.
Punchy
I think a Southwest or FAA whistleblower went public and talked about just how in the pocket of the airlines indy the FAA really was. This likely scared the beejesus out of other airlines, who realized they couldn’t play the “We could have never anticipated…” card if one of their rusty-ass engines fell off the wing and killed a schoolhouse full of kids, since it was public that they’d been negligent.
Shorter — suddenly facing liability, they found Mechanical Jesus and decided to fix every goddamn plane all at once.
And I’m sure there were myriad hard-ons and high-fives at the local electrican’s union.
BFR
and
Seems like it’s mostly and MD-80 problem, thus the impact to American is much much larger than other carriers – it’s coming across as less of an FAA problem and more of a ‘whoops we found something seriously wrong with some of the MD-80s so let’s make sure we check them all’ issue.
Davebo
The FAA gets bitch slapped over allowing Southwest to exceed time/hour/cycle requirements for one or more Airworthiness Directives.
FAA cracks down.
American failed to complete said AD within the prescribed time/cycle/hour period as required.
American planes no fly no more…
Pretty simple really.
Davebo
Oh, and the MD-80 is a really crappy airplane in my opinion.
Renaming it didn’t seem to help much.
crw
Also, American second guessed the FAA and did a half-assed job on the AD the first time around (about 2 weeks back now). FAA spot checked some of the so called repairs, told American half-assed isn’t good enough, and made them do it again. This time it’s taking American longer to work through the AD because they can’t get away with a sloppy rush job.
BFR
Without reading a ton about it, I suspect this is more of a case where a wiring design flaw was discovered recently and a flash bulletin went out for all operators to inspect their MD-80 fleets at once for a specific problem that came up in a couple of inspections.
There’s no statute of limitations on design flaws or shoddy construction after all. I’d be more suspicious if it were just American but it sounds pretty across-the-board to me.
garyb50
My source, who has represented many wrongful termination lawsuits brought by mechanics & inspectors who tried to flag ‘problems’ in the past few years (mostly AA) says this is because higher FAA managers are fearful that the new administration will lower the boom on them for their laxity during the Bush regime. They’re simply looking to keep their jobs.
I disagree. I think it’s a last ‘Grover Norquist’ type maneuver geared at pissing the public off so much that the hue & cry will allow the FAA to carry on doing nothing (which is what my source says is basically their MO).
binzinerator
Yeah Punchy, there was a link in that American Airlines piece that led to this little tidbit:
Now doesn’t that sound exactly like Bushco’s M.O.?
The fish rots from the head down.
Davebo
BFR,
I’ve been out of the business for a while but, unless somethings changed, the AD was preceeded by a Notice of Proposed Rule Making allowing Carriers to offer input on the maintenance requirement itself as well as the allowed implementation period.
Again, I may be wrong, but I’ve never heard of a Flash Bullitin concerning maintenance. Operations? Yes, but not maintenance.
DougL
Come for the jackassery. Stay for the pie.
BFR
I’m not in the industry and didn’t realize that was actually a term in use. I meant it more in the generic sense that Boeing and/or the FAA would send an urgent note to the operators regarding the problem.
Davebo
I would like to point out that the FAA is, in my opinion, one seriously screwed up government agency.
Reactive when one would think they should be proactive given the importance of their goal. And when they react, it’s almost always too broad in scope.
Consider the infamous Hawaiin Airlines 737 with the sunroof over a decade ago.
Who would have thought that a 737 operating on short hop high cycle low hour operations, always near the ocean in an extremely salty environment might develop corrosion issues.
But in implementing their “cure” for the issue the FAA didn’t take operations tempo as well as environment into consideration. They treat an aircraft operating in a low cycle high hour and low humidity environment exactly the same.
Now I understand overkill where safety is concerned, but a little common sense can go a long way.
Ted
I’m surprised that hasn’t been made into a ride yet at Universal theme park.
frogspawn
Punchy’s ahead in the jackassery race with “they found Mechanical Jesus”
I’ll hafta check this thread later
binzinerator
It can be that, and be FAA playing catchup too.
I think one of reasons Bushism was so damned effective at failing and yet succeeding is that the failures only reinforce the overall Bushco ideology. People who insist that government is the problem and proclaim ‘free market’ will auto-magically make everything better and safer (and by years of repetition establish this propaganda as ‘conventional wisdom’) are not the people interesting in governing effectively. Their failures and incompetence only serve to reinforce the message that allowed them to get their hands on power in the first place.
Even when there is an effort to try to fix what was intentionally broken — if as in this case, the FAA managers got scared and tried to actually do their f’ing jobs — the net result is still a ‘win’ for Bushism: The âGrover Norquistâ bullshit gets reinforced.
It’s one big negative feedback loop of incompetency and corruption, a perpetual motion machine of failure, and as big a fraud as one too.
Dennis - SGMM
I’d bet that right now the average American Airlines passenger is thinking “Motherf**king FAA.”
Krista
Good point. Jackassery is sort of the calling card of the Balloon-Juice (I refuse to shorten it to an acronym, due to my own snickering immaturity) commentariat.
binzinerator
Is there any government agency in the Bush regime that isn’t seriously screwed up? I’m serious here. Name one that isn’t broken, corrupt, or compromised. FDA, DOJ, EPA, FAA, FEMA, HUD, what the hell else is there that can 1) mess up large numbers of people in this country if mismanaged, mishandled, politiziced or sabatoged, and 2) hasn’t had the Bushco touch of reverse Midas imprinted upon it?
Davebo
And if I’ve stated it here before, well I’m just gonna say it again.
The WORST thing to happen rule wise regarding aircraft maintenance was when they outlawed smoking on all flights.
It used to be a piece of cake to spot a pressurization leak. Just look for the nicotine stains on the inside of the aircraft.
Now, not so easy.
McGuffin
The pie is a lie.
ThymeZone
Yes, the scandal is not about AA, it’s about FAA, and the fact that it is basically in need of a complete housecleaning and reform.
At this point, they are so bad that I would say they are a real threat to aviation safety and that people who use air transport should be concerned.
Aviation is a good old boys club, from the get go. I say this as a guy who got his commercial pilot’s license at age 19 and made a living at it for a long time. I know the culture, and it’s a culture of insiderism and cronyism all the way up and down the line. The only thing — supposedly — standing between that, and you, is FAA.
When FAA becomes the model of cronyism and insiderism, then the game is fixed. That’s where we are now, in my opinion. I hope to hell that we get a new government soon and that we get to the root of the FAA’s problems, and start kicking some airline butt. Their job is to kick airline butt.
linda
the fact that theyâre doing so in a way so as to inconvenience the maximum number of passengers is in no way a strategy to create enough public pressure to allow them to forgo future inspections.
i’ve seen this rationale a few times; and it strikes me as unbelieveably idiotic if that’s american’s motivation. how could mgmt think pissing off tens of thousands of passengers, alarming the public with what is essentially an admission that they ignored inspections, going to result in the public’s approval for less oversight.
esp by this point, i think the public has finally gotten a clue that the toxic toys, the contaminated food, the poisoned pharmaceuticals and the uninspected airlines are all of a part — and nothing to do with keeping them and theirs safe.
Conservatively Liberal
My wife’s brother is an AA mechanic in California, and he has told us about nightmare stories of deferred repairs because the FAA was letting them get away with it. Once it was becoming common knowledge (via rumors, etc) that the FAA was letting things slide, and with this administration on the way out, he thinks that this has led to the ‘sudden’ discovery of necessary repairs.
He said that the work is done according to specs when the time allows, but they classify their problems according to level of severity, and the problems deemed lass severe get set aside. Until they turn severe. He has bitched repeatedly about their cost cutting and skirting the rules, but what can he do (without losing his job).
I am glad that I have always hated flying…lol! You can’t pay me to get on a plane today. I have only flown twice, and I hope to never have to do it again. I know what the statistics are for accidents and flying, but I don’t want to chance becoming one anyway.
Besides that, I don’t think they allow luck horseshoes on planes. Might be used to cold-conk the pilot. ;)
Zifnab
Can I be the first to ask:
Why do you hate American, John?
Zifnab
Fixed.
Billy K
Normally I would don my designer tin foil hat here and say they were just trying to reinforce Grover’s dogma, but I think Linda is right. American is lucky to even be in business right now. Even their management isn’t stupid enough to try to pull a stunt like this on purpose.
Ted
I assume then that you don’t drive or ride in motor vehicles.
baldheadeddork
AA CEO said this was an AD generated years ago that had not been complied with because the mechanics were told to do informal inspections during other maintenance. AA says they asked FAA to change the AD to this less-rigorous schedule, but apparently if they did ask the FAA never approved the change.
It’s not coincidence that this happens a couple of weeks after Southwest got smacked, or after United had to ground its 777’s for a day because of missed inspections. Oversight of the FAA during Bush’s term has been as lax as their oversight of the financial markets, even when the laws are on the books no one is enforcing them. Or was, until CNN blew the story open on Southwest and a bunch of pissed off inspectors started talking to Congress.
On another non-coincidental note, did anyone else see CNBC money bunny Erin Burnett on Morning Joe today? She had her panties in a knot over the airlines because, according to her, the total industry profits and losses since deregulation prove that it is impossible for the airline business to work in a free market. Therefore, the airlines should be nationalize. No shit – she said exactly that.
Of course, some airline hack or analyst planted this turd in her empty little head to start a discussion for a new round of air carrier bailouts from the federal government.
Duros Hussein 62
Seriously, how hard is it? I am giving you my money and quite literally putting my life in your hands. Is it too much to ask that you get me to my destination safely?
It seems pretty draconian to me that AA has decided to do maintenance on 1900 planes all at once, but it underscores the fact that those 1900 planes probably need maintenance.
Duros Hussein 62
Therefore, the airlines should be nationalize. No shit â she said exactly that.
Why, because Amtrak has been such a success?
Soylent Green
Deficit spending like there’s no tomorrow is a related feature of Bushco ideology. It is done intentionally to achieve financially what cannot be achieved politically — the sidelining of those annoying regulatory agencies that interfere with profit margins. When the nation eventually tries to balance its books and pay off the national debt, the money will have to come from discretionary spending, which means everything not defense-related or entitlements. The goal is to use the unavoidable budget cutting to come to whittle agencies down to below what they need to carry out their missions.
As a plus, it doesn’t matter which party is in power as either will have no choice but to make the cuts. That’s the brilliance of the Norquist plan, to starve the government until it fits into the tub for easy drowning. By driving the debt way up, Bush has been enormously successful. Future CEOs will have busts of him on their desks.
LiberalTarian
Damn straight–but I’d be thinking “my kids could have been in one of those planes …” I know the Bushies want to put the uppity middle class in the US in their place, but giving us third-world class aircraft* for our vacations might provoke a little uncomfortable resistance for his cronies.
*I’ve been told one of the reasons for more aircraft disasters in the third world is because their carriers buy old decrepit airplanes from first world countries. Guess maybe not so much these days? We’ll just keep ’em, thank.ewe.ver.much?
Kirk Spencer
Actually, I think Amtrak’s biggest problem has been that it’s been the Norquist crowd’s test case. Denial of funds, then studies showing how it’s not performing as well as it should so more funds are cut (or increases kept to a minimum), over and over…
Amtrak serves the northeast fairly well. And it serves the west coast ok. But for the rest of us… sheesh. I’m in Chattanooga, and my family is close enough to Denver to make that a reasonable stop. I have to drive to Atlanta to pick up one of two trains and spend three days in transit (stops in DC and Chicago), paying as much for the train ticket as I would for an equivalent airline ticket. Add the necessary food costs and the pleasure of sleeping in the barka lounger (or paying more for a room – sorry, sleeper berth), and… it’s CHEAPER to go FASTER?
No, if we’d spent the money and effort it’d be a magnificent service, competitive with the airlines (takes longer, but less expensive). Probably with more (and more effective) routes than just those narrowly served regions.
So I’d suggest being cautious for using Amtrak as the example of bad nationalization.
Zifnab
No kidding. If Amtrak dropped line from Houston, to San Antonio, to Austin, to Dallas, to Houston again… they’d make a fucking killing. Every college teen, thousands of vacationers and business travelers… Southwest made its start in Texas on just this route. Sadly, we’re an oil friendly state, so everyone needs to get in his car.
jcricket
The FAA’s about 25 years into a 5-year (not kidding) project to replace their outdated computer systems. It’s also something like 1000% over budget, and has almost nothing to show for the effort.
So yeah, the culture at the FAA was screwed up even before Bush turned it into YAPO (yet-another-patronage-outfit) and gutted the budget. Oh, top it off with the budget cuts and aging flight controller work force (no one coming in to replace them at crappy wages as they retire) and we’re about to a achieve an airline crisis of epic proportions.
Whee!
I can’t solely fault the Republicans, but their “free lunch” mantra (cut taxes + raise spending), coupled with the general “government is always the problem” line they spew at every opportunity, has really delayed some much needed “infrastructure” fixes America is just now wising up to.
From the bridges & roads, to the water, sewer & power systems, to oversight from the FTC, FDA and FAA – all massively underfunded and about to hit crisis after crisis that will materially impact you and me.
I hate the whole “eat your peas” politics this is going to require, but perhaps if people get it, it will mean the end of Republican politics (because if people sober up and become willing to increase taxes to pay for what’s necessary, Republicans have nothing to run on).
jcricket
Actually, there’s more to it than this. Because of a massive lack of infrastructure spending and some idiotic deals back in the 70s and 80s, Amtrack has to share the railways with commercial operators (who actually own the railways) in most parts of the country.
These commercial operators get priority over Amtrack, which leads to regular massive delays (the west coast is particularly bad in this regard) for passenger rail – making what should be a 3-hour trip from Seattle to Portland a 6-9 hour ordeal.
If we were to spend anything reasonable on a national passenger rail infrastructure, like we do on the federal and state highway systems, coupled with some high-speed trains, and you could actually use trains for what you’re talking about. I’d argue that with 250-300mph trains and dedicated railways, any major trips under 1000 miles would make more sense to take via train instead of driving or flying. Would still make more sense to fly to get 1/2 way across the country or more).
I know I’d take a 1 hr train to Portland (I live in Seattle) instead of driving. Or even a 5-6 hour train to San Francisco, given that’s how much the air ride takes if you add in the driving, waiting, boarding, flying, waiting, luggage, cab ride to city.
Billy K
God, no kidding. I’m so sick of driving between major cities (I’m fixing to make a Dallas-Austin-Houston-Dallas circuit).
I frequently have business in Fort Worth. I was really eager to try the TRE*, especially because I live about a 10-minute walk from a train station. Turns out it’s a complete boondoggle. Takes 30-45 minutes to get from my station to the TRE station. Then the ride is over two hours. I can drive there in 45 minutes – sometimes less. I don’t see how anyone can think this “service” is competitive or useful.**
*For non-North Texans, it’s the Trinity River Express. Goes between Dallas and Fort Worth.
jake
The FAA/SW/United/Delta/AA Can’t Fail Plan:
1. Ignore inspection schedule.
2. Blame terrists if a plane falls out of the sky.
3. Profit!
Please keep in mind that the FAA is part of the same administration that conducted an in-depth (and expensive) survey of commericial airline pilots to determine the extent of safety problems. When the ugly truth emerged they tried to scrap the results because they might lower customer confidence and impact airlines.
I still haven’t seen those results.
Evinfuilt
Well most of the trains used are Diesel electric, so it won’t leave those poor unfortunate Oil Companies completely dry.
I honestly can’t figure how they haven’t connected all of these. From Galveston through Houston to Dallas, Austin to San Antonio and back to Houston.
Nothing too hard, and would be used every day. Southwest makes a killing still from its Houston to Austin trips alone.
HyperIon
am i the only one who things flying is WAY TOO cheap?
the prices seldom really go up.
i go to SanFran next week from Seattle for $78 one way.
how can Alaska make money at that price?
the cost of the fuel has to be more than the revenue from the folks on the flight.
Jimmm
I flew AA just last week. The worst FUCKING airline in the world. Sometimes I think the departure gate attendants try to piss off people to fuck with our heads–like the “meow” game in the movie “Super Troopers.”
On top of lousy, indifferent, even antagonistic service, it turns out that they haven’t exactly been keeping up with their maintenence. Oops. So what this means, essentially, is that I have to take off my shoes and have everything in my possession x-rayed and frisked before I can get on a plane, but the plane itself doesn’t even need to be swept before it’s allowed to carry 200 people to an uncertain fate.
Will someone please tell me why having American-owned carriers is vital to national security? I mean, if KLM or Rwandair can get me from NY to NO, I say let them into the market.
Jimmm
I agree: The MD-80 (which is twice as potent as the MD 20-20) is a piece of crap. Give me a good old DC-9 any day!!!
/snark.
Kirk Spencer
Jimmm, why are they vital to national security?
Mobility. No, not snark. Bear with me.
Context is 1950-1980 (give or take a little). We’re in this really big standoff with the USSR, and Armageddon is scheduled for this little valley called the Fulda Gap. Now, we cannot afford to keep our entire military in Germany, focused on the gap. What we can afford is to put enough equipment for our soldiers in place, and use fast transport to get soldiers and equipment together if the gap goes active. Except, oh crap, we can’t afford to keep THAT many aircraft with crews and pilots trained and ready. Enter the compromise.
Airlines get a guaranteed hand. In exchange, they allow government interference in operations AND the government gets first call on any and all aircraft with crews – if scheduling suffers, tough.
As with far too many government-industry deals, the details made things a LOT better for airlines than we the people, but that’s the principle.
It needs re-evaluation. Start with “do we really need to have forward projection of land forces?” (My opinion, yes, but it’s a necessary first question that needs study, not flame.) If we do, then we need to re-evaluate and renegotiate the deal with the airlines so it’s more in our favor. And remember we hold the upper hand in that case – there aren’t any major airlines in the world that are competitive on their own, but instead they all make similar deals with their governments. Thus the choice from their side is deal or go out of business.
That’s the basic, anyway.
Stevious
I was told, but have not seen anything substantial to back it up, that American is in labor negotiations with one of their unions, and that the maintenance issue that has disrupted their business was the result of a whistle blower campaign initiated by the union.