It sure seemed weird that the moderators of a Democratic primary debate picked up interrogation tips from Sean Hannity. Is this some sort of aberration for ABC? A self-described industry insider at Kos says no.
I have had, over the years, some interactions with top ABC executives. At a funeral, the then-president of the network stormed off after we got into a discussion of the Iran/Contra scandal. He declared that Bill Casey was “the greatest patriot this country has ever known” (George Washington, Abe Lincoln, FDR, MLK… chopped liver compared to Casey), who apparently did the country a great service by undermining the constitution.
In short, last night’s debate was not so much a change in the media’s outlook, but rather a change in that ABC no longer feels the need to maintain any pretense of objectivity and wisdom.
Is the guy right that ABC is run by right wing nuts who describe selling arms to Iran as the height of patriotism? How the hell should I know. But I think it is a funny coincidence that ABC is the same network that paid an acknowledged rightwing activist to direct a comically slanted “documentary” that blamed Clinton’s penis for 9/11. The handling of that episode by ABC News (advance screenings for conservative pundits only, fabrications and known myths all knocking Democrats, no pet goat, etc etc) demonstrated as well as any story could that the network’s executives have a personal slant only a few degrees removed from horizontal.
The partisan disease doesn’t permeate ABC News like it does over at FOX; nonetheless whatever recessed boil produced Path to 9/11 clearly hasn’t gone away. It won’t shock me if the stakes/pressure of this election kick out a few more embarrassments on the same level as yesterday’s “debate.”
calipygian
Gibson thinks 200k/year is solidly middle class. Thats who their target audience is – an audience that makes a median income of 200k/year, i.e. the top 3 percent of the population.
I bet among them, the debate was a wild success.
ThymeZone
So, they’ll take their universal condemnation of the debate as a badge of honor, a trophy for their wingnut audience?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Comedy gold, courtesy of publius at ObsidianWings:
The Lincoln-Douglas Debate of 1858, as moderated by Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
In some ways ABC News is getting to be worse than Fox now that the latter’s agenda has been so exposed, because ABC is using their reputation built up by Ted Koppel and Peter Jennings as camouflage for their current partisan agenda. Fox is like a B-52, ABC is more like a Stealth bomber.
I’m not sure I understand the thinking behind their business model, since ABC’s hard turn to the right seems to roughly coincide in time with the mood of the country shifting left. I can think of two explanations, either:
(1) Like a large oil tanker, it takes a long time to turn the ideological direction of a network news division around, so we are seeing the results of a change which occurred circa 2002-2003 and which has been slowly emerging over a period of years since.
or
(2) They may think that conventional broadcast TV is going to have a shrinking audience increasingly concentrated on the political right, as progressives move in largernumber to alternative media for news, leaving them in competition with Fox for what’s left.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
fixed
The Grand Panjandrum
Not exactly OT but Howard Dean weighed in tonight, and it sounds like he’s seen enough of this shit.(My emphasis added)
It sounds like he’s ready for the GE campaign to start.
Incertus
Is it just me, or does it seem like ABC started slipping when Peter Jennings died, and has gone completely off its rockers since Koppel left?
Cain
Go Dean!!
I love that guy.
Before I was an Obamaiac, i was a Deaniac. I scream for Dean!
cain
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
If anything, any perceived bias at last night’s debate would have to be adjudged to be pro-Hillary, not pro-Republican. If ABC wanted to get a Republican elected, they’d have let Obama slide until a McCain-Obama debate. As it is, this will be old news by then. But gosh, why would George Snuffleuffagus be pro-Hillary? Hmmmmm, I just can’t figure it out.
Second, this diarist must’ve never heard of the famous Halperin Memo from 2004, in which ABC news political director told its employees to hold George Bush to a higher standard of truth than they held John Kerry.
Yeah, the ABC news department sound like GOP shills, except for that one part where they tried to get Kerry elected! So I hate to say that I know more about ABC’s bias than a guy on the internet who claims have once been on the inside, but, well, apparently I do.
Tattoosydney
It may be a coincidence, but ABC’s web site appears to be down… maybe their servers exploded from too much bile being poured on them …
firebrand
I wonder if all those media elites and Clinton/Republican operatives realize the tectonic earthquake that will come in the electorate in the years to come. We’ve all been forged in the fire of all of this B.S., and we’re solidly against all the nonsense of the Bush/Clinton years. The Obama campaign is our generation’s first, and look at what we’ve been able to do so far! Within a decade or two, we are going to own the Democratic party, BURY the Republican party, and start changing this country for the better. After we’re done with conservatives, they’ll still be reeling from our knockout blows well into the latter part of this century. The future belongs to us, and we’re taking it starting right now.
Cain
BTW here is a decent article on Hillary vs Obama. The one point I haven’t seen discussed here w.r.t superdelegates is the fact that a lot of super delegates (1/3) are going to be up for re-election and going against the popular vote might put their positions in jeapordy.
cain
Fwiffo
I bet you thought Hillary supporters couldn’t get any crazier than orange-juice-gate, bowling-gate or bitter-gate.
You’d be wrong.
Martin
I don’t think it was a hit job against one candidate or another. Rather, I think they approached this debate as they would have approached a GOP debate. Republican voters tend to go for character over policy and Dems the reverse. Thats one reason why guys like Kerry and Gore do extra poorly when the nation leans right.
The debate last night put character over policy. It was set up like a GOP debate, not a Democratic one – and Democrats reacted angrily to the format. I know everyone assumes the outrage is along Obama/Clinton lines, but it doesn’t look that way if you really look. Sure, among the hardcore, but most non-hardcore Dems are pissed at ABC – many who are Clinton supporters. The debate was insulting to the audience. Nobody was terribly happy with the CNN religion thing this week either and the candidates both did fine – same problem. Character over policy.
When Clinton didn’t wave any of it off, even the stuff against her, the kneejerk reaction is to call her a Republican because she was accepting of the nature of the debate – and a Democrat shouldn’t. I think it’s an unfair attribution to her, but that’s the basis of it. If the GOP wants to fight over who is more Reaganesque, that’s fine – that’s their game, it’s not ours. ABC needs to pay attention to who the audience is.
The Other Steve
Agreed, well, about the pro-Clinton part.
However, what you quoted does not support this statement.
I realize that you whiny babies like to play the perpetual victim, but I mean jesus christ, don’t you yourself get tired of all the crying and whining?
The Other Steve
I do understand what you are saying, but Snufflelupagus worked for the Clinton’s and has shown a clear pro-Clinton position in the past on This Week. This may certainly explain Gibson’s bizarre behavior.
I do think you are right though, about the expectations of the different groups.
MobiusKlein
there are a few at myDD who don’t go so far wacked
Cain
Heh. I figured someone was going to blog about middle-finger-gate. I don’t think he did anything wrong. Showing a little attitude is always good.
That said, I’ll be honest, if Hillary did that I’d probably be outraged but then we all react to things we don’t like in much the same way don’t we? Now.. who wants to group hug with Hillary supporters? myiq>u?
cain
myiq2xu
The only thing unusual about last night’s debate was that Obama got treated like a Democrat.
Where was the outrage and the cries for party unity against the media when Hillary was the only target?
I don’t remember Tim F. doing a post with MSNBC’s number urging people to call and complain when Hillary was getting ganged up on by Gregory and Russert.
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y
Martin
I expect that p.luk is carefully examining video footage of Obama over the last few days. I have it on good authority that Obama is now loose hanging to the right, which obviously means that he thinks Hillary is a right-wing dick. Previously he was consistently a left-hanger, neatly packed.
Martin
Miq-
I’ve posted the questions from both debates twice now. Reply to them and stop making shit up please. I know you’ve seen them.
myiq2xu
That would be BeLOW ME.
Pooh
Why are you still peddling this shit when it was demonstrated to be, well, SHIT, last thread?
You somehow thread the needle of being both completely, drearily dull yet totally maddeningly nettlesome. Congrats on that I guess.
jnfr
Seen this yet? That’s not a debate, that’s a hit job.
Beej
Martin,
Repub voters go for character over issues because that is all the repubs have going for them and most of that is a Rovian lie. Go read Glenn Greenwald’s post at salon.com today. Highly illuminating.
Beej
By the way, there’s a commentor of Greenwald’s who has posted an extensive list of who to contact at ABC News. That’s in case anyone would like to shoot off an email.
Cain
Actually John was supporting back around Super Tuesday. Don’t you remember the whole Tweety doing the Hillary hate that whole meme. I know John was totally against all that. So at least on this blog she wasn’t demonized.
There will always be party unity against the media. Now, don’t you want to hug me? just a little?
cain
Martin
Actually, I just realized I grabbed the wrong debate. Here’s the one where ‘Hillary is the only target’:
I took out all the interjections and whatnot.
Heathcare
NAFTA
Jobs (some meta on keeping word)
Clinton Meta (natl security hit from Clinton)
Iraq
Clinton Meta (Clinton swipe at Obama)
Obama Meta (Obama swipe at Clinton)
Obama Finance pledge (some meta on keeping word)
Clinton tax returns (Ohio gov race tie-in)
Clinton National Archives
Farrakhan
Obama liberal voting
Putin
Take back vote (both)
Question must answer (both)
Now, Russert is harder on Clinton on NAFTA and jobs but she had a huge lead off on healthcare. While there are some meta questions, the debate didn’t dwell on them like the last debate and each had the same number of topics.
Martin
Nice. So you want to come in here and tell us to all fuck off and then when we challenge you on your shit you want to tell us to all fuck off.
Well, fuck off.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Right there, myiq.
THAT’S where us Obamabots diverge from you and start looking at you weird.
The *first and only step* to stopping the pattern of victimhood is to stop being open to being a victim. Only after the Republicans see that the Dems have a nice, jagged, stabby shank in their hand will they stop playing to dominate (“Hussein Osama”) and start playing defense (the actual issues).
We get some of your attachment. Hillary is an old battle-axe geared to claw her way to the finish-line. But there are arrangements in life where a person’s only chance to win is also going to guarantee their loss. If Hillary goes into the arena, Republicans will stick to their methods of perversion, and Hillary will lose because the argument won’t be about the Democrats having a more-sane policy.
If Obama goes in… well, maybe they’ll keep their dickish methods. But maybe they won’t. And, man, does that “maybe” look awful delicious to us.
Cain
Yeah, and I saw another article that went into more detail about the woman’s life. I feel bad for her and especially for her husband. I can understand why she might feel a bit miffed at the meteoric rise of Obama compared to Hillary in her own mind. But damn, her husband had like 3 by-passes, back problems, and now he’s having brain surgery. WTF?
Maybe she can use her new rockstar status to go and raise some cash for her and her husband.
cain
Rick Taylor
At the hardball college tour, Peter Doocy, Steve Doocy’s son (a co-anchor at Fox news) got to ask McCain a question. He chose, “Hi Senator McCain, my name is Peter Doocy, I’m a Junior here and I’m sure you saw one of your Democratic opponents, Hillary Clinton, recently drinking whiskey shots with some potential voters. Now, I was wondering if you think she has finally resorted to hitting the sauce just because of some unfavorable polling and I was wondering if you’d care to join me for a shot?”
Martin
But in spite of all of that, Obama’s flag pin is still her key voting issue.
What was Obama saying about bitter voters clinging to shit instead of voting their economic interests again?
John B.
Something I have not seen mentioned, which may or may not have any weight.
Sean Hannity’s contract through ABC Radio. ABC and Hannity are not two incongruous elements, even if I’m remembering correctly and ABC Radio was bought out.
Martin
Whoa. Didn’t see that coming:
A lot of people gotta eat crow now. Obama included. He didn’t agree with Carter going.
Martin
And Hillary’s old boyfriend endorses Obama:
Oh, yeah, he was Bill’s Sec of Labor too. Damn his misogynism. He’s always had it out for Hillary. Piled on through the 90s. [insert trollisms as appropriate]
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Oh, BTW: Sociologically speaking, 200K is still “Middle Class” or “Upper Middle Class”. “Upper Class” is reserved for that super-extreme end where they have so much in assets that a yearly salary is inconsequential to them. Jet Setters and old money, and such.
Fledermaus
Clever. You’re a clever guy. Hope that’s working out for you.
Cain
That would be true if she voted Republican. People with a lot of issues/stress in their lives tend to go out of whack on stupid stuff. Hillary’s health plan and Obama’s are relatively the same so at least her medical benefits would hopefully be covered. As for the jobs, dunno.
cain
Martin
But she’s not even open minded to Obama’s health plan or jobs. He might offer her the best economic opportunity, but she’s still stuck on the pin. Clinton very well may offer her the best economic opportunity, so why care about the pin? That’s the problem. Even if she’s picking the right candidate but for totally the wrong reason, his point still stands.
Ninerdave
Yes. I used to live by ABC News, now I can’t watch it period. Have you seen how they shit all over Nightline?
While I love KGO (what real talk radio should sound like). They are an ABC affiliate and even their Radio news sucks anymore. I flip to the CBS affiliate at the top of the hour for news.
Phoebe
Yeah I got all excited about Dean saying the superdelegates needed to decide NOW, but then he wound up saying they need to all have voted by June 3rd, the last primary.
F that. I had to make my decision by Febuary 9th, why should the superdelegates get until the very last minute if we want to wrap this up? If they are nervous about going against their constituents, then that still doesn’t explain the bunch of supers whose constituents have already voted.
Unless they’re just waiting for Obama to make himself unelectable with some huge gaffe. Like lying repeatedly about being under sniper fire until caught by a youtube. It might happen!
Johnny Pez
I’d just like to take this opportunity to note that Melissa McEwan seems to be going a little nuts.
Johnny Pez
It’s not just you.
Mind you, given how long Mark Halperin was running things over there, you have to figure the rot started to set in early.
Conservatively Liberal
I got a whiff of hot goat sex again. myiq3.14159 must have been here recently. He really needs to bathe, but he luvs him that hot goat sex stench. Wraps himself up in it like a security blanket.
I am sure it keeps everyone else at a distance though. ;)
Martin
No, actually she’s right. Kos really shouldn’t be calling her out as a Republican – it really is a damaging thing to say toward Obama. Kos carries some weight – especially with the netroots and there are a lot of Clinton supporters that will need to be brought back into the fold should Obama win the nom.
Granted, Armando and Jerome haven’t exactly carried their weight toward party unity either. But I have to say, mydd is getting wicked ugly again. There’s just no common ground there. Middle-finger-gate might be the last straw, I think.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
You might assert that, but the reverse seems to be true…
Logically, this also bears out. Rudy, the most likable GOP candidate in the survey, lasted about ten minutes because of his issue stances. The two Democratic candidates have short policy track records (less true with Hillary) and are where they are, let’s face it, because they are The Black Candidate and The Woman/Married to Bill Candidate.
Conservatively Liberal
Fixed.
Conservatively Liberal
Ok, this is funny! Colbert had Hillary on doing a skit about helping him with problems on the set. Now read this.
Seems this has miffed the harpies over at Hillaryis44 so much that they don’t even want to watch it…lol!
El Cid
Anyone who’s feeling too much of the “gosh journalism has declined so much”, just go to a library or internet site which has archives over the past 40 or 50 years and read the regular coverage, particularly with regard to U.S. foreign policy in any 3rd world nation.
Pay particular attention to the ravings of the editorial and columnist pages, which often directly contradict the reporting in the same publication’s pages.
Everything which is done, no matter how horrific, is a maybe justified, maybe controversial counter-move against the Russkies or the ChiComs.
Just like how in the 1980s, everyone who was at all serious agreed that the U.S. needed to overthrow the Sandinista government of Nicaragua, and they spent lots of time debating exactly how it should or should not go about it.
Right wingers can moan all they want about how the traitorous liberal media are full of dudes who were one time on some board which had a Komnist on it and how it simply refuses to demand that homosexuals be immediately executed and how dare they keep teaching evolution in the school, etc., but what the major news media really, really, really, really, really, really hate is anything that is genuinely liberal or, my god, leftist.
Xenos
The more critical point is that the questions were framed as GOP character issues, in which formal rituals of religious, cultural, and nationalistic dogma are the measure of character. That is, utterly superficial, phony & fake measures of character, at least from a Democratic partisan POV.
When Gibson stops posing and following up on questions and starts debating Obama from within the GOP framing of what to Democrats are false issues, then ABC has really tipped its hand regarding its agenda.
And finally, EEEL, Halperin never steps outside the GOP frame (ie the the basic terms of the propagandists running this unfortunate country), and is considered and inside man for the RNC. That memo surely was written to be leaked and to discredit those people who he works for and who work under him who try to be honest journalists. It, and Halperin, are contemptible.
Librarian
Of course. We all remember when Mark Halperin went hat in hand to the far right begging for their forgiveness for ABC for being so liberal and asking how ABC can be less liberal in the future. We are seeing the result.
The Other Steve
This article from November 2007 says Obama and Giuliani are the most likeable candidates, but Democrats still prefer Clinton over Obama?
Now let’s think about that again. What did the guy say?
Democrats choose policy, Republicans choose personality.
Hmm… Once again the article doesn’t support your claim. This seems to be a recurring pattern.
The Other Steve
EEEL would prefer we all forgot that.
ABC is a Republican channel, has been for quite some time. I think it would be wise for Democrats to no longer accept debates on their network, just like Fox. If they can’t be fair and balanced, they don’t get the goods.
Dreggas
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The house of Mouse is nothing but a smiley face put on totalitarianism and fascism.
Phoebe
Conservatively liberal – the link sent me to something about Benedict Arnold. Was it supposed to?