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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.
Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll
Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.
Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.
I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.
How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.
Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.
When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.
Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.
We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
Technically true, but collectively nonsense
Trump makes a mockery of the legal system and cowardly judges just sit back and let him.
They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.
President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.
“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”
The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.
We won’t go back.
He really is that stupid.
I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.
GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.
And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.
Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!
It’s a doggy dog world.
You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Previous Site Maintenance / Open Thread: Sinking Ship Edition
Zifnab
I miss Boondocks. Not the shitty second season Boondocks but the incredibly funny first season Boondocks. I’m confident they’d have something funny to say about all this.
Guess I’ll just have to wait for South Park to skewer it.
r€nato
If icebergs were marshmallows…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
LMAO:
Ron Dreher: the HRC campaign is heading for Monthy Python Dead Parrot sketch territory
h/t Sully
Who
Hill: “We’re unsinkable, Bill. What’s that white thing over there?”
Dennis - SGMM
“Omigod! They killed lukasiak. The bastards!”
joe
I don’t know, Bill, bit if it’s white, we’d better steer that way.
Billy K
’bout time we got some thread ’round here!
joe
I don’t know, Hillary, bit if it’s white, we’d better steer that way.
Grand Moff Texan
What a sexist cartoon.
Or something.
.
ThymeZone
From the adjacent thread … the Clinton campaign’s entire message right now (as contained in their daily conference call to the press yesterday) is that A Negro Can’t Win.
That is not just a spin on what they are saying, it is the only possible reasonable interpretation of what they are saying. In true Lukasiak fashion, they present this toxic argument in the form of arcane sets of numbers about varouis supposed voting blocs, but the message is clear: The black guy can’t beat John McCain.
Luckily the Superdelegates are the only real audience for this horse manure, and I reckon that they are not going to be persuaded by it. If anything, this crap will push them over the edge to Obama. If the Democratic Party can’t get behind a tremendously good black candidate who has beaten the power machine at its own game at this stage of the primary season, then … what does it stand for? The Clinton legacy?
ThymeZone
In case you thought I was exaggerating.
ThymeZone
In case you missed the point.
Good grief, I never thought I would see anything like this in the Democratic Party. This is an embarassment.
This is pure destruction of our political capital for her own purposes.
Rick Taylor
I’m copying these links form the previous thread.
It’s the white middle class who’s been hit by the recession
Clinton’s original statement: How does Hillary Cinton win the nomination
CMcC
Hill: “We’re unsinkable, Bill. What’s that white thing over there?”
Bill: “It’s all your white, working-class voters! Time for one last rally!”
ThymeZone
Clinton has done a number of things that, each by itself, disqulifies her from the office she seeks AFAIC.
But this latest tack, which is “Vote for The White Woman,” is over the top.
This truly is the scorched earth that we have been talking about for two months. Torched, scorched and pissed on.
Fuck her and fuck every one of you here who have defended this piece of shit.
Zifnab
At this rate, I think its a pure destruction of her own political capital leading to her own demise. Remember when Bill used to be referred to as “the first black President”? The Clintons were, right up until about South Carolina, very popular in the black community. Hillary had a number of notable black supporters in the House and the Senate – people willing to look past color and side with her for purely political reasons.
She squandered all of that, and it landed directly on her head. The Democratic Party won’t suffer in the long run because Hillary played the race card in Ohio or Pennsylvania. The Clinton Legacy, however, has suffered irreparable harm. If I were Bill Clinton, I’d be rather pissed at my wife right about now. Or pissed at myself.
ThymeZone
This is how bad it is: Right at this moment, I’d rather see John McCain win in November than Hillary Clinton.
She is a disgrace to everything the Democratic Party has ever stood for.
I thought she was crap three months ago, but I have to say, even I am shocked at this turn.
Billy K
Not sure if you’ve been paying attention, but we’re in the process of reducing Hillary to a nobody in the party.
Dennis - SGMM
It isn’t that Clinton is the wrong candidate, it’s that she’s just in the wrong party.
Ripley
There’s a pattern emerging, all right…
Billy K
I believe he is – one, for wrecking his legacy, and two, for not being able to secure the nomination. Whenever I see him stumping for her, I just imagine he’s thinking, “I coulda won this so easy.”
johninpt
The silver lining of this nastiness: Hillary and Bill have exposed themselves as the self-centered political hacks that they are. See ya in the history books!
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
The certainly is a pattern emerging here, isn’t there. Hillary started by using Geraldine Ferraro, and now she is morphing into her.
It bears remembering that this is the path the GOP went down with the southern strategy. You start by using racism in a cynical manner, not really believing it but finding it politically useful, and in the end the racists end up owning you.
Krugman called Hillary’s gas tax pander (quoting Talleyrand) not a crime but a mistake. If she goes down this race-baiting path, we are talking about something that is worse than a mistake.
Incertus
My girlfriend wrote a damn good rhetorical analysis of that Clinton quote this aftermorning, and it was the line for her as well, at least as far as the primary is concerned. But even so, this:
is nuts. Desperate as Clinton is to win, and she’s certainly desperate, she’s not as bad as McCain.
Incertus
Anyone who runs for the job is a self-centered political hack. It’s just a matter of degree.
Dennis - SGMM
Hillary’s comments about passing the Commander in Chief threshold make sense now: she meant Commander in Chief of the Confederacy.
Llelldorin
The really amazing thing about the current Clintonian analysis is that—amid all their side’s histrionics about staying home or voting for McCain—they still assume that black voters will turn out for them at the usual historic rates after they override the will of the voters and strip the nomination from the first black guy to earn it.
TR
Hillary 2008: Where All Da White Women At?
Punchy
He surely can, but not as easily as you might think, IMO. Not sure how long you’ve lived in diverse AZ, but ’round these parts (central Midwest), you’d be surprised on how many ordinary, normal-in-every-other-way just wont vote for “the colored fellow”.
Sickening and racist….but there’s some truth to it. I hope O proves it wrong.
ThymeZone
I am no longer convinced. Two days ago I would have agreed with you without hesitation.
Today …. I need to think about it. I’m in AZ, as bad as McCain is, I know him pretty well. He’s awful.
Her …. I am not sure I know her at all at this point. This is just a complete shocker.
Llelldorin
And yes, McCain is still worse. I’m furious at the deranged mess that Clinton seems to consider a “campaign,” but I’m not going to vote for someone whose positions on the issues are somewhere near the triple-juction of “wrong”, “stupid”, and “evil” just to score a moral victory in my party’s internecine wrangling.
ThymeZone
He beats it two ways: One, with his message and thru persuasion and comparison with the alternative.
Two, with turnout.
IMO, he wins easily in November unless he falls victim to the DeadWoman/LiveBoy catastrophe. Which he will not.
I think it’s time to stop cowering in fear of the stupid, ignorant class in America and stand up for something better.
jake
By Hillsteria’s logic McCane will wipe the floor with her pantsuited wideload. Surely working, hard working white males w/o college degrees will flock to him.
I can’t believe a Democrat is taking the You & Me against the brown elitists route. If Rod Serling pokes his head up I will be sofaking relieved.
Until then I wish someone would collar her and ask if she thinks the Obama/Keyes contest would have had a different outcome if Keyes were Caucasian.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
I suspect the acrimony is mutual. The way that Bill has conducted himself in this contest has been not necessarily to Hillary’s advantage (to paraphrase Hirohito). In retrospect Bill’s post-SC Jesse Jackson comments look like one of the major turning points in the campaign (especially when paired with Hillary’s LBJ-MLK Jr. comparison comments).
After what she put up with from him during the 1990’s, he owed her something better than this, and he didn’t deliver. The Big Dog is probably in the doghouse right now.
Soylent Green
OT, after perusing comments at Hillaryis44, Riverdaughter, etc., I’ve learned that the reason so many of them are pledging to vote for McCain is that we hurt their feelings. We said unkind things and made them feel bad, so they are striking back. The names are mostly female. By extension this applies also to some of Hillary’s gay male base. They call us cult followers, but their tie to their candidate is the more strongly emotional one, which pushes aside purely rational arguments about electability, delegate math, campaign ethics, or whatever. Flame away if you think I’m being sexist or homophobic. Mind you I’m only talking about the segment of Hillary’s camp that doesn’t have a seething, mindless hatred of Obama. The rest are merely ruffled and need time to heal.
I don’t think we need to prostrate ourselves and beg for their forgiveness, but now that we have won, it wouldn’t hurt to lay off the insults and apologize to some degree. Let them have their cry and get over it. We don’t have to rub salt in the wound.
SnarkyShark
I have had a revelation!
It is unnecessary to kiss any Clintonitte ass(not that anybody here would consider this) in order to garner enough votes in the GE. Bear with me on this.
Hillbots have been screaming about sexism and misogyny in cases where there is no evidence of this. Also, they seem to wilt and swoon at any perceived slight of them or Hillary.
Screw em, let them sulk. Leave them alone. What someone like John, or me(ex-Republican) understands is this. Republicans cannot help themselves. It is no fun to have power if you can’t taunt liberals, make fun of minorities etc.
If the Hillary crowd is so offend by all the non-existant perceived slights coming from “Barry”, I wonder how they will feel when the Republicans start in on Michelle Obama.
Because if there is one thing that scares them more than uppity negro men, it would be uppity negro females. Republicans don’t care about the future they hand off to their grand-kids. They don’t care about the future of their party. They are old farts who know they are on their way out, and never in their whole lifes did they care about anything except what they want.
And what they want is to fly their shitty world view one last time. To taunt anybody they can, to be relevant one last time.
They will go hard and heavy on Michelle, and if anybody is really seixist and misogynistic, it is Republicans. The will revel in it, wallow in it like dogs rolling in shit. Asking them to not do this for the party would be like asking Mark Foley not to put the moves on that intern who looks like Ashton Kutcher. Aint gonna happen.
I predict the Hillbots will start hearing that Helen Readdy music in their head and then, whoa booy look out. The will go after McKranky in a way that makes John or me look like a piker.
I could be wrong. I don’t really know what to think after my Left Coaster experience.
Please feel free to poke holes in this theory as I need some straight shots of reality in the hopes that the nightmares will go away.
D.N. Nation
The usual suspects are trolling up S,N!
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9403.html#comment-601941
Punchy
there’s about 3 jokes worth of material in that one sentence.
cleek
never count on SP to be on the right side of an issue. their M.O. seems to be a combination of “people who take things seriously are assholes” and “a pox on both your houses”.
4tehlulz
protip: uppity negro women scare white feminists just as much as they scare white guys.
ThymeZone
Yes, that is pretty much the stated mindset of the creators.
Rick Taylor
Oh my God, now George Will is making fun of us, and his observations are spot on. I regret ever hesitating saying Hillary needs to drop out of the race. She needs to do it yesterday, if only for her own reputation.
Wilfred
What a contrast between the elegance, intelligence and grace of Obama and this overfed, overrated, has-been low-life loser of a Clinton. Theodore Bilbo would be proud – maybe she can hand out axe handles at her Kentucky and WV rallies.
Maybe now people can understand why it is absolutely necessary for Obama to keep the Clintons and their hacks far away from him and his Administration.
Krista
Speaking as a white feminist, I have to kindly ask you WTF you are talking about.
Dreggas
crw
Fixt. At the rate she’s going, she’ll lose her Senate seat and be lucky if the DNC supports her bid for dog catcher.
Time to take a deep breath, folks, and stop reading Taylor Marsh and Talk Left. If she wants to destroy her career in a last ditch bid, let her. She’ll drive her non-crazified supporters away. This is only damaging if you let it take your eye off the ball – namely making the case for Barack “Living embodiment of the American Dream” Obama over John Sidney McCain III.
Tax Analyst
So I’m wondering – which one am I NOT?
working? Check
hard-working? Well, sometimes…you know. When I HAVE TO
American? Yup
White? As far as I know
Not completed college? Yep, that’s me, too…in spite of my exalted position. I worked in through a side-door of compiled work experiences.
And yet I’m not the least bit attracted to the Hillary Clinton candidacy at this point. Actually, as time passes I’ve reached the point where I find myself quite repulsed at the prospect.
Go figure.
Andrew
Why does everyone here hate women?
Dreggas
Look, Bill and Hillary are in this together and the fact of the matter is neither can stand the fact that there’s another person who’s not only more charismatic than Bill, but who can break the chokehold they have had on the party for far too long. It spells the end of the DLC, the end of the Clintons’ and the end of their brand of politics. Ironically they are doing themselves in, in the process but megalomania has blinded them to this at this point.
SnarkyShark
Gotta go with Krista on that one. WTF are you talking about?
Do you even know? Maybe you should sober up a bit before you blog?
Dreggas
Ironically TM is now doing some serious gymnastics to claim she will now support BO as the dem nominee since he all but has it locked up. It’s like watching Rush Limpdick and his water-carrying episode.
SnarkyShark
The Grand Panjandrum
She’s said some things that sent me up the wall but didn’t really surprise me: Ready on day one, McCombover and I are ready, gas tax. However, this one–white voters–even given its most charitable reading is a shocker. Has anyone seen video of this or is it only a written quote. I sure would like to hear this one if audio or video is available because I just can’t believe she would say it and really mean it the way I read it. I just … I just … well I really hope I am just not understanding this comment correctly.
w vincentz
ThatLeftTurn,
Thanks for that link above. Plenty good!
So, I dug out my Beach Boys 45’s and low and behold, there’s “Help Me Rhonda”. So I played it and recorded on an old tape machine, then played it backwards. Sure enough, it’s true. At about 2:14 into it, Brian Wilson crones very clearly, “She’s a winnah! She’s a winnah!”
At least that’s what I think I heard, but it could be some influence from the “cigars” that my good buddy just brought to me from his excellent vacation to Jamaica.
OK…back to the music.
Billy K
Yup. I think the last 8 years have proven beyond a doubt that a douche is much better than a shit sandwich.
Rick Taylor
I wasn’t as cynical as you were, ThymeZone, but I’m with you; I’m completely floored by this. She needs to drop out now. And I wasn’t saying that a day ago.
SnarkyShark
Damn those tags.
Geeze, I ask for reality and I get more befuddlement.
Krista, some enlightend converse please, before I start screaming shit like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes when he finds the Statue of Liberty.
Cause thats how I feel right now
cleek
but a blood-farting virgin Mary is awesome!
Rick Taylor
The Grand Panjandrum:
Already posted two links above. It’s not just her, this messages is being coordinated; it’s not an accident.
Link 1
Link 2
Incertus
My guess? The ugliness that’s been going on between women of color bloggers and, among other people, Amanda Marcotte and Seal Press over a piece she wrote for Common Dreams? (memory foggy) and for the images in her book It’s a Jungle Out There. It’s been ugly, and I’ve only followed it in passing.
SnarkyShark
Yes, thats not helping me with my mental breakdown.
Scrutinizer
Maybe they keep getting out of the kitchen, putting on shoes, and refusing to have sex? I dunno—
ThymeZone
Well, I had already heard the Wednesday Presser Conference Call (a daily event for all major campaigns) in its entirety on XM radio and …. the whole thing was just a lukasiak-like mashup of numbers and polls saying exactly what HRC said …. white people won’t vote for the negro.
I was just blown away, I could not (and still almost can’t) believe that they were taking this new line of attack.
We aren’t misunderstanding it. It’s about Hillary (in my opinion, egged on by Bill) basically saying “You can’t seriously think a black guy can do better than I can in the general election, can you?”
That is the entire message of their campaign at this moment.
cleek
oh… and speaking of South Park…
… in case you were wondering.
PeterJ
If P.Lunatic isn’t coming back, then we are going to need some new toys, And considering that the GE and John McCane are the next targets, we really need some McSame followers. Is there a blog somewhere where one can send an invitation?
jake
WTF?
Seriously, what the fuck does this mean?
ThymeZone
Another soul lost forever to the Demon Rum.
4tehlulz
????
No, I had the black feminist critique of Western feminism as a white middle-class enterprise in mind, actually.
Rick Taylor
Here is something from Jack and Jill politics, via America blog. The Democratic leadership must take a stand; it’s got to send a signal that this sort of thing is not acceptable in our party. Giving her a chance to bow at gracefully in June is no longer an option.
SnarkyShark
Go to The Left Coaster, ask for Peter. Tell him I sent you.
A proud ditto-head and not ashamed to revel in it.
Problem is, he doesn’t like McKranky too much, but he won’t be able to pass up the opportunity to troll a bunch of Lie-brals.
Actually said all of our problems are caused by Lie-brals.
Krista
That’s a lot of pressure, you know.
But wrt to the whole “what feminists think” issue, I suppose I just have a very strong aversion to being lumped in with others. I’m an individual, regardless of whatever things I may have in common with others. And maybe that’s what feminism is supposed to be: a desire for recognition of each woman as an individual human being, with her own aptitudes, strengths and yes, weaknesses.
I think that any issues that white feminists and black women (feminist or not) have with each other is probably just a manufactured issue resulting from a small handful of people not getting along, in a very public fashion. But because they’re not from the same demographics, they somehow become representative of something. It’s ridiculous. If I get in a public scrap with one of you guys, is that representative of Canadian-American relations? Of course not. And if I did happen to get in a scrap with another woman who is not of the same ethnicity of me, I really don’t think that any group inferences or sociological trends could be drawn from it.
Why are we so goddamned eager to categorize everything and make these sweeping generalizations? Is it a simple-minded attempt to explain the world, because our little human brains can’t wrap around the idea that everybody is an individual?
cleek
maybe we could lure Petey from Yglesias’ comments ?
ThymeZone
Not me. I am uniquely just like everybody else.
Wilfred
They are to be found among the hordes of hard-working WHITE Americans now thronging to the banners of Mother Clinton, the Avenging Angel of Dispossessed White Men, who sent to earth to rescue them from the clutches of Barack Hussein Obama, whose name is an anglicized version of the Arabic letters for Emmett Till.
Rick Taylor
I agree with this, but I have to say, I doubt McCain would have stooped to using the arguments Hillary is using to try to convince super delegates to give her the nomination. George Bush, for all his myriad faults, never stooped to this level (one of the very few positive things I have to say about him).
Michael D.
Oh please. George Bush doesn’t care about black people. Kanye West said so.
4tehlulz
Hillary, unlike McCain has yet to say that Obama is the candidate of Hamas.
Yet.
BFR
Hoo-boy, sometime I don’t envy the right-wing water carriers. Today is one of those days:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/193985.php
BOL selling that shitpile. That’s gonna play real well with the masses. Real well.
Wilfred
If today’s comments don’t finish her, nothing will. Can you imagine the reaction of the Democratic Party if McCain said anything like this? If Party leaders remain silent about this it means they still think there’s life to the rotting Clinton corpse. Right now their like the chimps at the beginning of 2001, warily poking sticks into the body.
Incertus
I’d say that the push-polling in South Carolina against McCain in 2000 was even worse than what Clinton is doing here. I mean, the whole “would you think less of John Mccain if you found out he had an illegitimate black baby” is way worse than this crap.
Krista
Organized feminist groups do seem to have been traditionally caucasian and middle-class. I don’t know why this is. Perhaps women of more reduced means are just too damn busy trying to feed their families to be bothered with getting involved in a political movement.
As far as there being a colour divide, I really can’t answer to that. However, one thing I can say is that to say that white feminists are scared of black women is really just another one of those generalizations that benefits nobody.
SnarkyShark
That’s a lot of pressure, you know
Its not the words, it’s the ability to have a discussion with a rational human being. Thanks, I feel 100% better.
I just can’t see how anybody who considers herself a feminist will be able to sit on the sidelines while the jackals tear at another womans carcass for political gain irregardless of her ethnicity.
Could personality cult be that strong?
Or maybe some of the older women in the Hillary cult just do not care about reproductive rights anymore when they threaten to vote for McCain? If this is the case, why do they claim to be Democrats?
I just can’t grok their reasoning no matter how hard I try.
ThymeZone
While HRC practices the Politics of Ugly, my man Barack is the cool guy in Washington right now.
Rick Taylor
That is true, but I’m thinking of things he did publicly, statements he or those in his administration made that could be attributed unambiguously to him. It’s not like he or Rove ever admitted being responsible for that push polling; they never made their popularity with white voters a a talking point of their campaign.
Incertus
Class privilege certainly had a lot to do with it in the early days, although the early feminist movement was integrated, at least in part. It was when women really started getting close to achieving the right to vote that women of color got tossed out of the movement–one of those “we’ll come back for you later” moments. I would imagine that’s part of the reason why women of color identify more with the civil rights movement than with the feminist movement.
Incertus
They didn’t have to–it’s not like there’s a black base in the Republican party that it would be dangerous to alienate, so by definition, the whole goal of being a Republican presidential candidate is to be popular with the while voters.
Who
Hill: “We’re unsinkable, Bill. What’s that white thing over there?”
Bill: “That’s John McCain.”
jake
America needs more legislators named after nursery rhyme characters.
Dreggas
Yes it could especially since white women in the Hillary cult are literally projecting themselves as “We’re All Hillary Clinton Now” and it is all about Hillary. If the rethugs went after Michelle the connection, which like it or not, would not be there given race. Mind you these are the Hillary cultists. After all if they were really about electing a woman, in their lifetime, to the presidency they could have gone for Carol Mosley Braun (black) in 04 or for Cynthia McKinney (black) on the green ticket this year. It’s as much racial identity as it is gender identity. And don’t give me the viability argument, after all if they all voted en-masse for the female, as a gender solidarity thing, then the female would be viable regardless.
Rick Taylor
Let’s try a though experiment. Suppose Clinton was in the lead, and Obama was continuing a hopeless campaign against her, mired in debt, with no chance of success outside of the super-delegates overwhelmingly choosing him over the pledged delegate leader. Now suppose Obama said he should be the nominee, because Hillary Clinton was hopelessly unpopular with African Americans, a key demographic the party has always depended upon to win. What do you suppose peoples’ reactions would be?
4tehlulz
It depends on how you define the “early days”. Some of the stuff right after the Civil War was just downright nasty, with some arguing, in so many words, “it’s bad enough white men have the right to vote and we don’t, now your going to give colored men power over us too? Fuck that.”
orogeny
Some of you know me as a long-time Clinton supporter and defender here. Well, I’m through. This last comment from the speech yesterday was too much for me. I tried to post the following comment at Taylor Marsh, Talk Left, and the Hillary Clinton blog (it was posted and then quickly deleted at Talk Left and never got posted at either Taylor Marsh or the Clinton Blog):
I don’t know what happened…this is nothing like the Clintons that I have supported and worked for over the years.
Dreggas
This would be pointless because, as has been pointed out time and again, If the situation was reversed Obama would have been forced out long ago.
Scrutinizer
I noticed this morning on Joe that the new Republican talking point is “We can’t believe the Democrats are about to nominate the weaker of the two candidates”, closely followed by “We want to run against Obama”.
OH NOES! It’s a good thing those Republicans have our backs! We need to write to all the superdelegates NOW and tell them that they need to overturn this silly voting stuff. I don’t know about all y’all, but I sure am glad those Republicans are warning us about how weak a candidate Obama’s going to be.
nightjar
Welcome to the Obama bus, orogeny. Your comment was honest and heartfelt.
nightjar
I have the same difference. (credit #8)
Bubblegum Tate
Just in case you needed to know the stakes of the election from the wingnut point of view:
Wait, the Democrats are running on a Porn is the Backbone of Society platform? Why am I just now hearing about this? Sign me up!
orogeny
I’m still working on getting all the way on the bus, but I’m definitely willing to help push it over the finish line. ;-)
I need a little time to get over the whole “hope and unity” thing…just not my style. I’m working on it though. Just downloaded “The Blueprint for Change.”
Rick Taylor
I started out supporting Hillary Clinton in this election, and have grown progressively more and more shocked at what she’s willing to do to win. I don’t think it’s actually racism. She’s just so determined to win, she’s mechanically dismissing any voting group that doesn’t support her as unimportant, and saying the really important people, the ones the super delegate need to consider before choosing the nominee, are the ones that support me.
It’s been steady. Voters in small states aren’t important. Those voters in the caucus states that went for Obama aren’t important. Those Michigan and Florida voters who voted for me, they are crucial, and the DNC has to count their votes for the result to be legitimate. This is just the end of the in where al this was leading; blacks are not supporting me, therefore they are not the voters who are truly important. It’s nothing personal. I’m sure if they were the demographic voting overwhelmingly for her, she’d be crowing about how crucial they are, just like she’s now doing about white middle class voters.
Dreggas
HA! And now according to TPM Hillary has said no to the Michigan compromise proposal that would give her a net 10 delegates by splitting them 69-59 in her favor.
orogeny
It’s things like this that make me proud I’m a Democrat!
BFR
I was pretty convinced as of Tuesday night that the Clinton campaign was in wind-down mode. Definitely appears that I was incorrect.
My guess is that they left the door open on Tuesday for some kind of reconciliation (on their terms only) and when that didn’t happen, they decided to go all in – and toss their legacy down the toilet in the process.
SnarkyShark
Thats what I’m having a hard time with. Call me naive, but I didn’t understand how many blatant racist there were in the Democratic party. Back when I was a dumb-ass Republican, I assumed that Dems were at least nominally purged of the racist after the Southern Strategy thing.
The Difference is, Republicans are proud of it, whereas the closet Dem racist go batshit insane when you point out their racism to them.
Lot of denial going on here.
But welcome back to the reality based community, and I hope the nightmares go away for you.
Mine won’t
Dreggas
Yeah this is another one of Rush’s latest and greatest Oxycontin infused ramblings, that operation “Chaos” is working as planned and now every one if his minions of moronia should vote for Obama because he is supposedly easier to beat.
cleek
is this racist ?
Rick Taylor
Actually, it’s not the style of the most of the people here. We’re more a the Republican party has become a travesty burn it to the ground and salt the earth sort of group. We like to make fun of Obama as the Magical Unity Pony. But he seems to be winning, and that’s important. I’ve gotten more impressed with him over time.
Dreggas
Not to put any more salt on the wound, but uh…Hillary was one of those who were all too eager to sign onto bills banning adult materials and censoring video games.
Rick Taylor
I worded that poorly. Just to be clear, it doesn’t matter if in her heart of hearts she’s racist or not. She’s willing to use it as a tool to wrest the nomination from the leader, and that’s completely out of bounds, something until now I associated with the worst of the Republicans.
Scrutinizer
I don’t see the modern feminist movement being about women’s suffrage all that much. My impression of the current movement is that of a movement that gained momentum in the late 60’s and early 70’s as an outgrowth of the civil rights and anti-war movements. IIRC, it was mostly a response to women in those movements being treated as second-class apparatchiks (make the coffee and print these flyers, baby, while we men do more important things). Their commitment to activism was already there, and they got sick and tired of being treated as auxiliaries, so they started a revolution within the revolution.
It was mostly white, mostly middle- and upper-middle class, and I don’t recall many black women who got involved. I think as the women’s movement (or at least the women in the movement) got older, it got mired in identity politics, but that identity stayed mostly white middle and upper class. Not saying that the women’s movement is racist, just that it isn’t all that relevant to AA women, who’ve had a different set of challenges.
Dork
With this, I think this blog just jumped the shark.
KRK
Well as another white feminist, I understood 4tehlulz’s point exactly.
Not all white men are afraid of strong black women, but lots are. And lots of white women who have been outraged by the media’s treatment of HRC are going to be notably silent about slurs against Michelle Obama.
cleek
i guess should i have provided context… ?
Dreggas
You missed the “Rudy Giuliani will skullfuck a kitten to prevent a terrorist attack” didn’t you? In fact this site is now in the number one spot when you google “Skullfuck Kitten”
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
orogeny,
Way to stand up!
FWIW, as far as I’m concerned, you are on the bus, because “the bus” is defined not by single minded devotion to Obama as a candidate, or agreement with all of his positions, or any of the usual stuff. “The bus” is simply the sum total of all of the people in this country who are so sick to death of the same old BS politics that they aren’t coming back for another helping, thank you very much, no matter who is offering it up or how pretty the packaging is.
Obama isn’t our saviour – we are about standing up by ourselves (and supporting him is just one way of showing it) by rejecting the kool-aid being passed out by the other candidates and telling them they better offer up something better or go pound sand.
It is like the “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not taking it anymore” rant from Network, only delivered cooly, calmly, and with the confidence of knowing that this time is different because a critical mass of people have woken up to smell the bullshit, and this time we are going to win.
orogeny
I know…so was Tipper Gore, but I’d still vote for Big Al if he decided to run. When it comes to those libertarian-type issues–drugs, porn, prostitution, etc.–there just aren’t many mainstream candidates that agree with me. It was just like the flag-burning bill that Hillary proposed. Obama voted for it. I don’t think either one of them really gave a rat’s ass about someone burning a flag once every couple of years, but it was a cheap and easy way to get some cred with conservatives.
SnarkyShark
Rick Taylor speaks for me.
The fact that I agree with the salt the earth theory and still find myself liking the man more and more speaks to his ability and truly good nature.
I’m willing to try it his way, although it will be interesting to see how he feels a couple of years after dealing with those obstructionist Neanderthals on the hill.
Word has it he did amazing things in the IL senate(house?).
We shall see, but I do feel sparkly rainbows when he speaks, so there is that.
nightjar
Word has it some wingnuts and HIlbots have discovered Obama is actually an, eek.. politician and has silly slogans and stuff.
Most here already new that.
BFR
Oy
Josh
Actually, feisty black women are pretty hot…
Scrutinizer
Was there ever a question?
SnarkyShark
blockquote>Actually, feisty black women are pretty hot
I think feisty women of any ethnicity are teh hot.
And I think Balloon Juice feisty women are hottest of teh hot.
Rick Taylor
Oh, and if it wasn’t enough that Hillary is making an appeal that extra weight should be given to white voters so she can get the nomination, and that she’s setting up a narrative that Obama has trouble with white voters that the media will eagerly eat up and the Republicans will use in November to help shore up the victimized-white vote, what’s she’s saying wasn’t even true. Daily Kos
merrinc
Bubblegum, I think Bill Maher summed up the wingnut point of view recently:
If you think the Democrats are going to take your Bible away, you’re an idiot.
If you think the Democrats are going to take your guns away, you’re an armed idiot.
If you think the Democrats are going to take your gun away and give it to a Mexican to kill your god, you’re Bill O’Reilly.
Dreggas
The flag burning thing doesn’t bother me as much as some of the stupid ass censoring laws and such that were pressed and passed. I remember the Music Ratings and still voted for gore because, frankly, it was he I was voting for not his wife. Hillary on the other hand was the candidate.
There are few mainstream candidates on the right side of my libertarian pet peeves. However there push for the 2257 law during the clinton years led to a scarlet letter campaign and false prosecution against a number of people running legitimate online adult businesses and a campaign of fear that shut many down. It was a form of forced censorship used by the Gonzales DOJ thanks to an act put in place by the Clinton admin to “protect the children”.
KRK
Those interested in the intersection of race and gender in this primary should listen to/read this interview with Gloria Steinem and Melissa Harris-Lacewell from Democracy Now!, if you haven’t already.
I read 4tehulz’s comment not about individual white feminists (I didn’t see anyone pushing back on the generalizations about white men), but about “feminists” as a movement and those HRC supporters who are so adamant about “her turn” and, as a result, go around pushing bullshit about black men getting the right to vote before women did and using Obama as a stand-in for “The Man” when Clinton is the closer surrogate for white male power.
Krista
Hard to say. I do hope you’re wrong, but I am notoriously terrible at getting into people’s heads and predicting their behaviour.
All I can say is that I really, really hope that all of those who supported HRC and were vocal about sexist attacks against her, would be equally vocal should sexist attacks take place against Michelle. I would hope that they would have some empathy for her.
There are many who still expect the First Lady to be silent and in the background. Hillary was one of the ones who paved the way for a stronger, more outspoken First Lady, and she deserves credit for that. But there is still a lot of lashing out aginst any would-be First Lady who doesn’t always nod, smile and keep quiet. (Exhibit A: Heinz Kerry, Teresa).
I hope that all women, regardless of colour, regardless of political stripe and regardless of whether or not they consider themselves to be feminists, will not tolerate sexist attacks (and I mean actual sexist attacks, not another “periodically” bit of tomfoolery) against Michelle.
merrinc
Er, no.
SnarkyShark
Like Republicans give shit about the Federalist Papers or liberty. They are Royalist with a dash of theocracy.
Here’s the difference. Nobody says wants to say they can’t pray. Since its supposed to be silent and between them and their deity(see Bible), than they can pretty much pray anywhere anytime. All we ask it to let us watch porn/smoke dope/play GTA in the privacy of our own homes.But no, can’t have that as it offends their delicate sensibilities.
I wonder what a trip to the Guillotine would do for their sensibilities, cause that’s the road they are blindly rushing down.
Soylent Green
I don’t think the Clintons are racists. I think they are something even worse, politicians to the utmost extreme. You know where an avowed racist stands. A born politician will shake your hand, take your money, and lie to your face. The Clintons don’t see people as people, they see us only as voters. We are just little wooden armies on the big Risk board they call life. They used to count on the support of the African-American voting block, then it got away from them, largely because they wrecklessly drove it off. And the other day it handed their asses to them. Obama’s early support among blacks was a lot weaker than it is today, and is not monolithic. Plenty of people still regard him as unseasoned, or not black enough, or not tough enough, etc.
The Clintons’ political instinct, as their primary losses mounted, was to find another batch of little wooden armies to command into the fray, in this case rural whites. It isn’t personal, if that’s any excuse. They will use anyone still available to regain their place at the top, and it’s easier to lock up blocks of voters with bullshit than to appeal to all of us as individuals.
Obama is a politician, but uncomfortably so; that’s my instinct. He’s more of a natural leader and organizer than power player.
David Hunt
I still agree with that assessment without hesitation. The only reason that it’s in doubt is that McCain has managed to stay mostly under the radar. When there’s only one Democrat left standing, I expect that he’ll start getting media attention again. That won’t cure you of and hatred of Hillary, but I figure that it will help you realize that McCain is still much worse.
All other factors aside, the Supreme court is much too important to have Mr. “I’ll appoint judges just like GWB did” in office. Even if he wasn’t saying that, the Republicans have been building their judge-picking apparatus since the Reagan Administration and it has it’s thumb so heavily on the Far Right side, that it would give any sane person vertigo. McCain is not going to re-build that system from scratch. He’d be picking Alito’s and Roberts’ because those are the types of guys that would be on the lists that would be put in front of him. John Paul Stevens is almost 90. God bless him for staying healthy and active till now, but I don’t think he can hold out another four years.
Supreme Court appointments are one of few (legal) things a President can do that have a real lasting impact on our country functions. I’ve used that as the basis for my votes in Presidential elections since ’92. It’s still the most important reason the when November rolls around, I’m going to vote for Not-McCain.
Fortunately, I think that Obama’s going to come out on top before the month’s out. But if Hillary Clinton manages to pull some off some sort of skullduggery and swing the nomination, I’ll still hold my nose and vote for her…not that my vote matters a hill of beans as I live in Texas and I figure that Satan(R ) would beat Jesus(D) in the GE come November.
Rick Taylor
This has been hashed over already. There were two different issues; a constitutional amendment and a bill. Hillary and Obama both voted no on the first and yes on the second. Hillary was a cosponsor of the second.
orogeny
Funny, I felt exactly the opposite. The 2257 requirements were a reaction (maybe an overreaction, but not by much) to things like Tracy Lords making porn when she was what, 15? It may have slightly restricted the porn industry for a short time, but they seem to have recovered. The Music ratings would have been a hassle for recording artists and record companies, but really didn’t constitute outright censorship. But the flag burning bill was a direct assault on the 1st amendment.
I just assumed at the time that both Clinton and Obama (mainly Clinton…in ’05 I didn’t really know who Obama was) knew that the bill would never pass, so it was just a symbolic vote to impress the yahoos.
SnarkyShark
This is what logical thought would tell me. The problem is, I’m not sure anymore. I think there is a boomer/everybody else dynamic in play also that poisons the well.
My hope is the Republicans will be their obnoxious selves and clear the water.
But some of the Hillary supporters seem to have gone insane.
So I think all bets are off, and rescind my previous theory.
But I do think we will win, and the insane Boomers will be put to pasture where they can dream of DFHs hiding in their closets and under their beds and have stories read to them by Joe Klein and David Broder.
orogeny
merrinc, you’re looking at the vote on the flag burning amendment. Both Clinton and Obama voted against that one. Clinton co-sponsored a bill that would have banned flag desecration. 64 Dems, including Obama voted for it.
Krista
You’re probably right. My hackles just go up when people make generalizations about what a feminist is. I really don’t like being pigeonholed. ;)
Xenos
The women’s rights movement of 100 years ago was entirely a creature of the white middle class, and was openly racists in much of its ideology and propaganda.
The basic point that was being made by all the white women in white dresses was that there was a profound injustice in black men having suffrage while white women, who fashioned themselves as the the preservers of morality and social purity, did not have the vote.
Fast forward to the 1960s, and the later feminist movement was preoccupied with empowering middle class women, and rarely found common cause with working class women of any race. Since race and class are usually intertwined in american cultural politics, african-american women felt snubbed and neglected by the women’s movement.
As for the women’s movement of today, I expect a flourishing over the next few years of hard economic times, with a much greater commitment to working class women on color. This will mark a big improvement.
SnarkyShark
I believe she was 17. They didn’t have to remove to many of her tapes because the lions share were legal.
Don’t ask me how I know this. I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you:)
Dennis - SGMM
I think you’re nuts. I’m a boomer and I wouldn’t vote for Clinton if she promised me title to Hawaii. Most of the boomers I know hope passionately that their children and grandchildren will do better in every way than they did. Not because they’re ashamed but because they’re optimistic. So knock off the generalizations.
firebrand
Welcome back to sanity, orogeny. Feels good not to be drinking the Clinton kool-aid anymore, eh?
Asti
Yeah, I can say all all the above too, and I’m female, and I will not support Hillary Clinton on any level. She is a major disgrace. Those who are considering having her on the so-called “Dream Ticket” can expect me to stay home if that is the case also. I will not support putting her anywhere near that oval office.
John S.
orogeny-
Welcome to the fed-up club.
I think there will be a lot more people joining with this latest bullshit from Camp Clinton about the magic number of 2025 being “phony”. Anybody that can swallow that load of bullshit and still think it tastes like candy is a lost cause.
p.luk, I’m looking at you.
orogeny
Not at this point…it’s more like being betrayed by an old friend. I liked Hillary…I escorted her and Chelsea around Bham when they came here during the campaign in ’92. I’ve got pictures of me with her and Chelsea and Bill on the wall behind my desk. I’m not really sure how I feel at this point.
reid
To me, she’s shown herself to be cold, calculating, insincere, and amoral. Some of the blame may go to those she’s surrounded herself with, but it says something that she chose them because they’re a cutthroat group and thought she could win with them. And of course no one’s forced her to say and do everything that she has. Fortunately, she sucks at it (see the awkward “xerox” comment) and people are turned off by the ploys.
Dreggas
Actually 2257 had a big impact on a lot of people who ran online businesses. A friend of mine who ran a completely legal adult fetish business online (pay website etc) was harrassed by the feds and local police under 2257 and threatened with jail time and a long drawn out court process. Her home was raided and all of her Computer equipment as well as gear was confiscated. She was bullied into going under because she would not be able to afford the legal costs. The same thing was happening to many others to the point where several local conventions had “2257 and you” workshops to go over what people could do to defend themselves.
2257 painted a big red target on people operating adult businesses by making them list, on their material or website, an address where records of age and identity could be obtained. Under gonzales and ashcroft it was used to pursue a campaign of intimidation against anyone operating an adult business.The head of the FBI unit in charge of these cases even said it was their strategy to go after any legitimate online business or movie producer and use the threat of lawsuits to get them to shut down since they would not have been able to afford the legal fees. You don’t hear about this as much because it’s not headline grabbing and it’s just the “perverts” going to jail for it.
SnarkyShark
I am not generalizing, I am talking in a very narrow case here. Read it more carefully. I said it was one subset of the larger insane Hillary set.
The very fact that you wont vote for Hillary excludes you from the set.
My time at TLC leads me to believe this to be true. I was told things that came close to being outright confessions of just that.
Some people actually went on and on about these “newcomers” and “progressives” who weren’t real dems. Some of them would go on and on about the 60s and how they lived through it, and how us uppity newcomers just didn’t understand.
So we can have a discussion, or you can get offended by a statement that had no relationship to you and shut down the conversation in deference to your comfort zone. I am tired of always having to worry I might say something un-PC, so make the call sport.
What do you want to do?
Genine
So much going on in this thread! Great conversation.
I think it just makes things easy for people. People like categories where people fit into neat little boxes and get uncomfortable over having to think and take people on an individual level. I think it’s a real shame because a lot of people morph themselves into something so that they can fit in a box. As an AA hippie-type person, I’ve experience this kind of thinking quite often.
But the danger in that is that people who identify with a group or some box are easily manipulated. They may not see it that way, but as a person always on the outside, I do. All a person has to do is say a certain word and one’s whole being can change. I don’t let others have that much power over me. It pisses some people off. I’ve had my relatives and some friends get mad because I don’t get offended when/if someone calls me the “N” word. But they think I shouldn’t be offended when someone calls me an “oreo” which happens with more frequency.
As for feminists, someone else noted that in the 60’s and 70’s and such, there was a break between black and white feminists because the feminist movement was not really addressing the issues facing AA women, which were different. Also, I think the split between black and white feminists is happening now because of the actuality or the perception of white feminists “stealing” ideas and such from black feminists and the white ones getting the recognition. That happened recently when Amanda Marcotte started blogging about immigration being a feminist issue when a black feminist blogger brought it up first but everyone attributed it to Amanda. I don’t get involved in all of that, but that is the story.
Whites stealing the ideas of blacks is a real hot-button issue because that kind of stuff happened all the time. I remember being a little girl and hearing all sorts of things about it. Some I agreed with and some I didn’t. (Again, I was never tied up in identity and because I was black there were certain things I had to think and/or feel). But, I know in the culture its still a sore spot.
As a fiesty black woman and a frequenter of Balloon Juice- thanks!
They better not. If they do, I’ll beat them over the head with the “periodically” and other type bullshit they’ve been talking. I try to be peaceful and all that, but I have no problem getting on the Bitchland Express and going there- in a loving manner of course.
RareSanity
orogeny,
Don’t look at it as being betrayed by the friend, look at it as finally recognizing that you have outgrown your immature current relationship. You still care about the person, you just know that it will have to be from a distance now.
You haven’t been betrayed, you’re moving on…
Geez…I sound to “Lifetime-y” for my tastes. I’m gonna go eat a steak, drink a beer and watch some NFL network lest my man card be pulled…
orogeny
Dreggas,
It’s amazing the difference some inside information can make. I was completely unaware of how the law was implemented…just thought it was something requiring all porn stars to be over 18 and registered, something like the way prostitution is regulated in Nevada. Apparently it was a lot worse than I ever thought it could be.
I still think the flag burning/desecration law is the worst assault on the 1st amendment, though. Burning a flag is a purely political statement, one of the very last things that our government should be allowed to restrict.
firebrand
You’re where I was back in 2002-2003 when the Clintons voted for and supported the war.
SnarkyShark
BTW, I know I go on and on about events at TLC, but being a blue collar working white guy with no insurance and no money for therapy, this will have to serve as a surogate.
Some of the smartest people I know are right here, and the generaly sane enviorment makes for a “safe” place to work through my issues.
This may sound like snark, but it is not. The TLC experience fooled me because it went from almost normal to fully insane is milliseconds.
I learned things I never wanted to know and wouldn’t wish on a Republican.
So I beg your indulgence and hope I can ad to the discourse in some way.
This place is my home now, and I am never leaving
KRK
In other gender/election news, right wingers are planning a big June 7 protest for the 43rd anniversary of Griswold v. Connecticut, the SCOTUS decision guaranteeing the right to use contraceptives.
Please, John McCain, please participate in the protest and/or speak warmly of it. Pretty, pretty please.
4tehlulz
They haven’t gotten the memo that you’re supposed to overturn Roe first, then come out of the closet about your Griswold haet.
Dreggas
Don’t get me wrong, I think the flag burning thing is dumb too but I know it won’t pass and is just brought up to score points politically. Evan Scalia in his 60 mins interview said it’s protected and even an amendment against it would be unconstitutional.
As for 2257, most people wouldn’t care about us getting “disappeared” or shut down (as some were) because we don’t operate out in the open in society anyways. Sure there are sites on the internet, sure there are adult stores, but one has to seek them out. We were easy pickings but thankfully the federal courts put a stop to the DOJ’s attempts at bullying in a case vs. AdultFriendFinder and other large adult sites who were being prosecuted by the DOJ under 2257 because they allowed adults to post their pics but did not have photo id etc. proving their members were over 18 (despite needing a credit card etc. to get membership). The courts ruled against the DOJ and most of the noise died down. That doesn’t mean they aren’t trying to find other ways to come after us it just means it hasn’t been raised in an election yet.
SnarkyShark
Ah ha, another dot got connected and a answer got fleshed out. Thank you for the context, things are clearer now.
(light bulb over head goes on)
cleek
nitpik: how could an amendment be unconstitutional ?
that’s like saying the 21st amendment is unconstitutional because it permitted something the 18th had already outlawed.
Dreggas
I’ll go and sell t-shirts saying “Now that I am out I’m pro-choice” in toddler sizes.
In fact maybe show up with a digital camera to take pics to use as the new poster children for birth control.
4tehlulz
Wait. An amendment to the Constitution would be unconstitutional?
SnarkyShark
Don’t forget to belch frequently.
Rick Taylor
Isn’t it about time for the super-delegates to step in?
Is anybody listening?
Let’s see, spreading the meme that Obama’s victory is illegitimate due to Michigan and Florida, spreading the meme he can’t win with white people, making fundrasing more difficult for Democrats in other races, this sure is a lot to pay just to feed the ego of a candidate who can’t possibly win.
nightjar
The fact that so many democrats voted for it is a testament to the perceived power of the RWNM by elected dems fearful of assaults on their patriotism. It’s sad and pathetic, but it seems to me that maybe Americans are starting to wake to the vacuous GOP smear machine. At least I hope so.
4tehlulz
Not a true Democrat. GTFO
Dreggas
Unless I am mistaken, prohibition was an amendment and was overturned by an amendment because it was, actually, an unconstitutional amendment in the first place. Our drug laws today would be unconstitutional if it weren’t for a treaty we signed dealing with China and Opium back at the turn of the 20th century. For a long time the gov’t and prohibitionists had sought to outlaw all drugs (not just alcohol). They couldn’t unless there was a constitutional amendment which would have been, in fact, unconstitutional as it violated free choice.
orogeny
I don;t think the constitutionality of the Volstead Act was ever in question. Once an amendment is ratified, it becomes part of the constitution and is, ipso facto, constitutional. It took the 21st amendment to repeal the 18th and end Prohibition.
I think you’ve confused “unconstitutional” with “really stupid.” ;-)
montysano
orogeny,
I was still on board in March 2007. My family and I made the trip to Selma for the annual reenactment of the Selma-Montgomery March. Obama was there. Hillary was there. Bill showed up, and watching him among the Black Belt African-Americans was like watching Mick Jagger stroll down 5th Avenue. Dr. Joseph Lowery spoke. It was a great day, and I remember thinking “Whoever wins, we’re in great shape.”
Today………. not so much. Sadly, I’m afraid the Clintons will be remembered more for this scorched-earth campaign than for the many things they got right.
Xenos
The congresspersons who can’t raise funds due to Hillary not quitting are all superdelegates. They need to act appropriately, and I expect that they will.
Clinton is ahead by what, 12.5 superdelegates at this point? Might not take long to wipe her out.
KRK
Dreggas, you are mistaken.
If enough people vote for it, any part of the Constitution is up for grabs.
SnarkyShark
The Mississippi and La special election results and the great gas tax fizzle say they are.
The dynamics have changed, and anybody stuck in the old paradigm is getting/going to get hammered.
Thus Obama is our nominee.
A lot of the rest is up to us. We have to win the water-cooler wars. Making being a known republican a shameful thing would be a good start.
Everytime a ditto-head starts up, telling him loudly that they had there opportunity and screwed it up, so would you kindly button it would be good.
Asking the establishment you visit to please turn off FOX news because you find it offensive is good. Little things like that.
Like Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse.
Be nice, until its time to not be nice.
ThymeZone
orogeny is right. The Constitution can be amended to say essentially anything. The amendment might be immoral, repellent, disgusting, and wrong on every level, but once it’s ratified, whatever it says, is Constitutional at that point.
Which is a really good reason not to be mucking around with the Constitution, to keep it down to the barest of essentials. That’s the main reason, for example, why we should keep DOMA out of it. The idea of lowering the standard of something as profound as the Constitution to what amounts to petty bigotry is far scarier than the actual effect of something like DOMA.
Dreggas
Not so much confusing, most things that are unconstitutional are really stupid. Either pushed by moral absolutists or blithering idiots, both of which are hard to tell apart.
In general that was what I gleaned about prohibition and our drug laws as they are from the History Channel and it’s all day marathon on the history of illegal drugs which they had on….4/20.
Dreggas
Ok, shoot me, it was my mucked up understanding of the issue and how it was presented at least on the stuff I was seeing. :P
ThymeZone
Nah, just have a piece of pie on the house.
ThymeZone
Nah, just have a piece of pie on the house.
ThymeZone
How that happened, I have no idea.
No idea.
No idea.
No idea.
No idea.
No idea.
Dreggas
Unity Pie?
Hair Pie?
Cherry Pie?
What kind?
orogeny
Somehow, even though I’ve been lurking on BJ for several years, I’m not sure what the whole “pie” thing is about. What is “pie” in the Balloon Juice idiomology?
Dreggas
It’s the same here as the rest of the blogosphere I assume, sparked by the great pie fights over at the Great Orange Satan.
ThymeZone
The pie thing started as a way to throw water on obnoxious trolls like Darrell. We’re replace his rants with “I like pie!”
Then somebody rigged up a pie filter that you can run on your PC which replaces the posts of people you want to pie with phrases like “Pie is tasty!”
I don’t remember who has the pie filter, maybe someone will chime in.
Dreggas
I remember that, that is how it started here, I was going into the ancient history of Pie LOL.
ThymeZone
Yes, we turned it from a rhetorical thing into a food and lifestyle choice.
Pie is, after all, the tastiest!
w vincentz
With all this talk about flag burning and pie, I just had to fire up the oven. Strawperry pie, baked in a rectangle with 13 bars of crust and fancy stars in the upper corner.
I must have put the temperature too high cause that stawberry beauty burned up like a bunch of napalm.
Shame it is…
Am I going to get arrested?
Oh, wasn’t it a Chimp and his puppermaster Darth that burned up something called the Constitution with secret laws inspired by some guy named John Yoo? Are they in trouble?
I’ll get back later after I call Nancy P and shout some more fourletter words. She’ll probably hang up but I’ll feel better.
And finally, did you catch Wolfshit on Tweety’s show spinning Hillshit’s “WHITE working voters” words, she was only quoting the AP article doncha know?
Shame on those assholes!
jake
Nah, people just got sick of having to risk their sight and livers by drinking bathtub gin.
Or maybe Congress got a note from the mob: “We’ve made enuff $$, kthxbai.”
Tim
Greasemonkey script, I think. The cleekster did it.
binzinerator
Cleek wrote it. He’s got it for download on his site. I had the link to it but I can’t find it right now.
Dennis - SGMM
Cleek wrote the estimable Balloon-Juice version. You need to use Firefox and install Greasemonkey for it to work. Once you install Greasemonkey just drop Cleek’s script directly into your browser window. You do need to read the instructions at Cleek’s place and add the handles that you wish to pie out.
binzinerator
Here’s the link I used to get it from cleek.
Balloon Juice Disemvoweller / Pie Filter
It made reading in here tolerable, what with myiq0 and pluk poopin’ up the place. It’s alchemical. Turns turds into pie.
Somehow it doesn’t surprise me it came from the same mind that came up with a blood-farting virgin Mary.
Brachiator
This is a sad example of Hillary Clinton’s tone-deafness (although I am surprised that Bill has fallen into this as well).
Irony Number 1: Rightwingnuttia and Senator Clinton both had a field day over Obama’s supposed “bitter” gaffe. Now, I can hardly wait for the Rush crowd to chortle over Clinton’s no doubt unintended implication that people of color are not hard-working, as opposed to beleagured non-college educated white folk.
The Audacity of Condescension. Even if unintended, Clinton’s gaffe feeds into the stupidity of the mainstream media, which has been jumping all over the phony story of Obama’s black support. The audacious condescension here is that if black voters support the Democratic Party nominee in massive numbers in the general election, this is just business as usual, and blacks are fulfilling their expected role. However, if blacks vote as a bloc in helping to determine the party nominee, then everyone gets the vapors.
In other words, black voters are just supposed to shut up and do what they are told to do.
And then, Clinton with a straight face rejects “any idea that her emphasis on white voters could be interpreted as racially divisive.”
Amazing.
Interestingly enough, after hard weeks of playing the Blue Collar Momma, Senator Clinton ran back to her elite base (Democrats seek graceful exit for Hillary Clinton):
To be fair, by the way, a photo of this group includes women of all races. But more bleu cheese than blue collar.
A notable gay paper has un-endorsed Senator Clinton (Hillary, the time has come)
Senator Clinton is playing to the conventional wisdom and her own worst instincts, and sadly undermined some of the very reasons that women and blacks and gays and many other people initially warmly supported her. Obama, on the other hand, has consistently and clearly offered an alternative. And in that alternative is a stronger chance that he can overcome the obstacles presented by reluctant voters.
Clinton, on the other hand, is severely over-estimating her appeal.
Hypatia
It would never happen, because Obama as the challenger and the lesser known quantity would already have been long gone from the race after losing, what was it, eleven primaries in a row? The race would already be over. (I’m not saying that would have been fair to Obama, only that his support and his money would have dried up a lot quicker.)
I think that Clinton’s current unpopularity with African Americans is actually a strong argument against her and I’m sure the superdelegates have it in mind. Obama wouldn’t bring it up himself because he has never wanted, for good reasons both practical and idealistic, to be identified as the ‘black’ candidate (although his campaign is not unfamiliar with the race card and how to play it).
But the fact that a statement from Clinton regarding her demographic support is considered a shout out to racists is nuts, IMO.
scrutinizer
You may be thinking about Christy Canyon. Traci Lords made over 100 films. Only one was made when she was over 18.
SnarkyShark
Scrutinizer-
You may be right. My memories from that time may in fact be bong-hit impaired.
I kinda quit watching porn after Shauna Grant offed herself.
Until the internet came along when I accidently stumbled into a few flix.
But thats a story for another day
Dreggas
VIVA LA BIT TORRENT!
Asti
It was a hot potato if she never intended it to be used as such. Look at Geraldine Ferraro, Hillary never denounced what Geraldine said about race what just a month or two ago.
Call it nuts if you want, I think it’s nuts to be even having this discussion at all. The fact that Hillary is opening her mouth and saying the kind of things which cause us to sit here and debate whether she’s playing a race card or not gives me pause. It’s a hot potato, and if she wants to be President so badly, than she’s either doing this intentionionally or she’s fucking stupid.
Soylent Green
Stupid, no, blinded by her need to get out from behind Bill’s shadow, yes. They are a team, but he has always been the senior partner, while she has waited, waited, waited for her turn. Poor Hillary, all those years in the White House being left out of the action, bravely smiling her way through an endless blur of state dinners and fetes and funerals while she waited for her turn. Wonkish Hillary, reading the briefing papers except the ones for which she lacked clearance, waiting for the policy meetings to end to which she wasn’t invited. Brave Hillary standing by her man as he was being mercilessly hounded by the right wing conspiracy, choking down her pride and hurt each of the many times he cheated on her, the tawdry details known to the world. Clever Hillary getting herself elected to the U.S. Senate from a big and powerful state although she had little interest in the business of the Senate. It was but a springboard to the real prize, parity with Bill, her turn in the big chair after 35 years of standing in his shadow. Then the time finally came, the opportunity ripe, her hard work and name recognition and the people’s nostalgia for the good years, the Clinton years, all coming together at last. Into the campaign Hillary marched, knocking off challengers through the autumn, taking the pole position for the primary. Then out of nowhere, some upstart, some nobody, some fresh-faced kid, some smooth-talking charlatan jumped in front of her in line and stole it all away. The rage she must feel, the seething fury she must struggle to contain, the agony of having to keep going out there smiling and laughing and looking strong and confident in her pastel pantsuits while this nobody from nowhere effortlessly loped ahead, stealing her media, stealing her voting blocs, stealing her prize. He promised, Bill promised, it was hers for the taking and all she had to do was take it. And take it she will, by hell or high water, and the devil take the hindmost. “As God is my witness, cries Hillary, “as God is my witness they’re not going to lick me! I’m going to live through this and when it’s all over, I’ll never be hungry again!”
nightjar
That was quite good, Soylent.
Hypatia
What vivid reporting.