TalkLeft now has a thread up where the commenters are savaging Obama because they’ve decided they know who he’s going to nominate for Attorney General and they don’t like him.
I really don’t care about Clinton any more. She’s honestly harmless. Her followers are scaring the shit out of me.
I simply don’t believe Armando’s “of COURSE I’ll vote for Obama (once the bat I’m cracking his skull open with breaks apart)” rhetoric any more. These people don’t want Obama to win. They don’t want Obama to win because they’d rather be “right.”
3.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
When will she concede?
She won’t.
SA2SQ, etc.
4.
yet another jeff
Hell, she’s going to as for another 20 debates…she’ll even propose to debate on the floor of the convention…winner takes all.
By May 20th, Obama will have locked in a majority of the pledged delegates. He probably will have a plurality of super delegates as well. She probably hoped to keep it alive until June 15th or so, but my guess is it won’t get that far.
Despite all the rhetoric of a convention fight, she would have to be absolutely insane for that to happen.
6.
Ugh
There’s a diary on DKos right now that says Edwards slipped up on MSNBC this morning and said he voted for “him” and that he intends to endorse e person he voted for “soon.”
7.
yet another jeff
Armando is the reason I don’t go to Talk Left any more…it was a nice place “back in the day” but it’s too full of strongarmed whininess now. I still like Jeralyn, but Armando is full of the tainting.
8.
Jake
Kos has a diary up claiming Edwards slipped this AM and basically admitted he voted for Obama. I think that’s right. Here’s the video:
Another super also defected to Obama today. I don’t see her conceding before WV, but who knows. The pressure only seems to be increasing.
9.
yet another jeff
Aww, she can stay in until after WV…she has to…John Cole needs the chance to vote against her. He deserves the chance to vote against her, to vote for Obama. John needs closure.
Aww, she can stay in until after WV…she has to…John Cole needs the chance to vote against her. He deserves the chance to vote against her, to vote for Obama. John needs closure.
Except that’s what makes Clinton’s “we should allow every state to vote” nonsense such utter bullshit. The ballots are already locked in. If she drops out or suspends her campaign this afternoon, there will still be primary elections in every remaining state, and everyone in those states can still vote for her if they want.
“Count MI and FL” and “let’s let every state vote” and all the other lines being smarmily parroted by places like TalkLeft and Taylor Marsh are just stupid dog whistles for “we actually still think we can win.” There’s no “principle” here.
Why are her supporters so damn gleeful that Clinton is accepting electoral reality with less dignity than Mitt fucking Romney?
11.
yet another jeff
Well…I’m still not saying anything but “Fuck MI and FL”, as Bill Hicks said “buy the ticket, take the ride.”
12.
Dork
That’s a GREAT simpsons episode.
13.
Zifnab
august 27 November 8th
Fixed.
14.
Wilfred
She won’t. Now that she’s descended to race-baiting (again) I hope all the assholes who were hoping for reconciliation with her and First Scumbag have FINALLY perceived the reality behind the mask. Obama has to put miles between him and them. In the end, she had nothing to offer except pseudo-populism and dog-whistle race-based politics.
Remember that when the pity party starts for giving her Senate Majority leader.
Rachel Maddow was right…of course, I knew she was when she told the rest of the talking heads on MSNBC that Hillary wasn’t going to concede…to paraphrase: Her campaign didn’t make any sense the day before NC/IN, so why should the results in those states stop her?
Remember that when the pity party starts for giving her Senate Majority leader.
as much as i dislike her, i can’t see how she’d be worse than Reid.
17.
Rick Taylor
Kos has a diary up claiming Edwards slipped this AM and basically admitted he voted for Obama. I think that’s right. Here’s the video:
More convincing than parsing his words is just listening to the whole thing. I can’t imagine him talking the way he’s talking if he didn’t understand very well the election is essentially over. He repeated over and over again how Clinton could stay in as long as she was pushing up her positives and not driving up his negatives.
As much as I can’t understand why Clinton is continuing to stay in the race, i can’t understand why super-delegates are still refusing to admit who they’ve voted for, to bring the process to an end. Edwards couldn’t have been comfortable having to sit there and answer for Clinton’s comments on how she gets the white working class vote, or her continued demands to seat all the delegates from the unsanctioned primaries. I just don’t see the purpose of them holding back. At this point, what is the purpose prolonging the primary when the outcome is known? If Clinton was using this time to bring attention and push the debate on some of her signature issues like health care, I could understand it, but as it is, I don’t understand the purpose of holding back and letting this go on, giving her space to attempt to hold Michigan and Florida hostage, and make the case she should win because white people vote for her; not to mention that there must be other races and Democratic candidates that deserve peoples attention, time and money. Is it some extreme form of politeness towards Clinton? I don’t get it.
18.
Wilfred
Is it some extreme form of politeness towards Clinton? I don’t get it.
I think it’s becoming clearer that Obama’s victory signifies a fundamental shift from the DLC centered power base towards an as yet undetermined new way of doing things. The Democrats are like the Lollipop League in The Wizard of Oz, cautiously prodding the corpse of the Wicked Witch to make sure she really is dead this time before breaking out into song.
19.
Svensker
A Clinton supporter commenting over at Sadly,No said that if the Democrats nominate Obama, then it was time for the Democratic Party to learn a lesson, and if that took John McCain being president, war with Iran, and two more conservative Supremes, she would either stay home or vote for McCain to make sure the Dems learned. (Her name was not P.Luk. by the way.)
And they accuse Obama supporters of being a cult?
20.
Captaincooked
Wilfred,
I just want to make sure you have your Munchkin organizations correct. I believe it’s the Lullaby League and the Lollipop Guild.
21.
John S.
A Clinton supporter commenting over at Sadly,No
Iris is as crazy as p.luk, so it might as well have been him.
22.
yet another jeff
Is it some extreme form of politeness towards Clinton?
No, it’s just that they have to think happy thoughts or Hillary will send them to the cornfield.
A Clinton supporter commenting over at Sadly,No said that if the Democrats nominate Obama, then it was time for the Democratic Party to learn a lesson, . . .
That’s a common sentiment. Even if they’re planning to vote for Obama (which seems to be a minority), they’re rubbing their hands in anticipation of how badly he’ll loose in November, so we Obamabots will finally see they were right all along and he could never beat McCain in the general. Sad.
A Clinton supporter commenting over at Sadly,No said that if the Democrats nominate Obama, then it was time for the Democratic Party to learn a lesson, and if that took John McCain being president, war with Iran, and two more conservative Supremes, she would either stay home or vote for McCain to make sure the Dems learned. (Her name was not P.Luk. by the way.)
So in sum, she would rather destroy the country than vote for a nigger a non-Clinton.
Nice. How Republican of her.
27.
flyerhawk
Clinton will bow out next month. By June 9th Hillary will concede.
We can run out the string but it’s over and she knows it. Obama knows it.
If by June 10th she hasn’t conceded, we begin carpet bombing the Clinton campaign. But right now, she isn’t doing anything wrong.
28.
Soylent Green
I posted this late last night to the end of a dead thread so no one saw it. Except Nightjar, thanks for the good word, NJ. So here it is again if that’s okay.
Asti Says:
I think it’s nuts to be even having this discussion at all. The fact that Hillary is opening her mouth and saying the kind of things which cause us to sit here and debate whether she’s playing a race card or not gives me pause. It’s a hot potato, and if she wants to be President so badly, then she’s either doing this intentionally or she’s fucking stupid.
Stupid, no, blinded by her need to get out from behind Bill’s shadow, yes. They are a team, but he has always been the senior partner, while she has waited, waited, waited for her turn. Poor Hillary, all those years in the White House being left out of the action, bravely smiling her way through an endless blur of state dinners and fetes and funerals while she waited for her turn. Wonkish Hillary, reading the briefing papers except the ones for which she lacked clearance, waiting for the policy meetings to end to which she wasn’t invited, always on the outside looking in, like a child at the window of a candy store. Loyal Hillary standing by her man as he was being mercilessly hounded by the right-wing conspiracy, choking down her pride and hurt each of the many times he cheated on her, the tawdry details shared with the world. Clever Hillary getting herself elected to the U.S. Senate from a big and powerful state although she had little interest in the business of the Senate, a token springboard to the real prize, parity with Bill, her turn in the big chair after 35 years of standing in his shadow. Then the time finally came, the opportunity ripe, her hard work and name recognition and the people’s nostalgia for the good years, the Clinton years, all coming together at last. Into the campaign Hillary marched, knocking off weaker challengers, charging well into the lead, taking the pole position for the primary. Then out of nowhere, some upstart, some nobody, some fresh-faced kid, some smooth-talking charlatan jumped in front of her in line and stole it all away. The rage she must feel, the seething fury she must struggle to contain, the agony of having to keep going out there smiling and laughing and looking strong and confident in her pastel pantsuits while this nobody from nowhere effortlessly loped ahead, stealing her media, stealing her voting blocs, stealing her prize, all while spouting some nonsense about hope for America. Bill promised it to her, it was hers for the taking and all she had to do was take it. She owes it to all those hard-working whites who share her values, except in states that don’t count. And take it she will, by hell or high water, and the devil take the hindmost. “As God is my witness,” cries out Hillary as the sun rises over West Virginia, “as God is my witness they’re not going to lick me! I’m going to live through this and when it’s all over, I’ll never be hungry again!”
29.
Wilfred
But right now, she isn’t doing anything wrong.
And the race-baiting? BTW, still slinging at RedState?
30.
Rick Taylor
There’s a fascinating post over at Vichy Democrats that should be read in its entirety.
The 2008 Democratic Presidential primary is down to the short strokes today, and unless you have the luxury of hanging out in front of a laptop and cable news all day, you’re likely to miss the rapidly evolving or devolving (depending on your perspective) conclusion of this fascinating race.
As I write this, Obama’s on the Hill meeting with “a swarm” of “completely star struck” Superdelegates and party insiders — a hero’s welcome. Earlier today, Obama met with a group of “Blue Dog” Congressional Democrats – anti-progressives, every one, and not normally in the same camp as the “most liberal Senator,” but eager to associate with a winner and critical to a candidate who seriously intends to actually win Southern states that in the past have gone Republican but this year have registered recordbreaking Democratic turnouts. John Edwards’ campaign manager has just endorsed Obama, and Edwards himself – the last challenger to drop out of the race and an important voice – is appearing on “The Today Show” early tomorrow morning, possibly to finally pick a side. The new “Time” magazine cover shows Obama grinning, with the headline “And The Winner Is…”
In the last 24 hours, a probable deal has materialized that would resolve the Michigan primary debacle by giving Obama just ten delegates fewer than Clinton – an irrelevant dent in his huge delegate lead – instead of denying him any Michigan delegates whatsoever, as the Clinton campaign still insisted upon just yesterday. Obama has even appeared on his campaign jet in blue jeans for the first time – not cravenly reaching out to blue-collar voters, since he wore them on his own plane and not while standing in the bed of a pickup truck, but rather a sign that he’s relaxing a little before shifting into full-blown general election mode.
. . .
And so earlier today, faced with the prospect of their Michigan card going away, and with indispensable Congressional superdelegates literally sitting in a meeting with Obama and deciding which way they’ll swing, the Clinton campaign has scrambled – I’ll tell you how we know they scrambled in a sec – to release, very publicly, and in electronic form suitable for beaming to Superdelegates’ Blackberries mid-meeting, an open letter to Obama, daring him to support the seating of Michigan’s and Florida’s delegates according to the results of those states’ flawed primaries, which both candidates previously swore to discount.That letter is a picture window into the post-rational mind of Hillary Clinton in the waning days of her lifelong dream.
The letter was hastily prepared. We know this because, in a game where letters like this are planned and stockpiled weeks ahead of time and then magically appear in reporters’ emails when the timing is exactly right like Athena springing full-armored from the head of Zeus, this key letter has not one, but two typographical errors. I can’t remember any other Clinton press release, even the workaday ones reporting the candidate’s schedule, containing a typo – but this one, intended for broad public consumption at a critical juncture, has two. It obviously was cranked out in a hurry, more like a pajama-clad blogger trying to scoop the Associated Press from his parents’ basement than a well-planned chess move in a Presidential campaign. Athena’s armor is on crooked.
The fact that it was hastily prepared means that it is a response to unforeseen events – specifically, the prospect that Michigan will be resolved sooner, and more evenly, than Clinton expected.
The possibility that the Clinton campaign hadn’t seriously considered the possibility of an uncontested resolution in Michigan is stunning, and suggests how deeply out of touch with political and mathematical reality the Clintons have become. . .
31.
Rick Taylor
This passage is especially telling
In the past, when Clinton stood firm on her “Obama gets no delegates from Michigan” stance, I assumed she was merely being tough and calculating. No sensible person reasonably expected the party’s elders to give Obama zero delegates if they seated Michigan. And Clinton’s own campaign staff seemed to admit yesterday that she could not win the race for elected delegates even if Michigan and Florida were counted the way she wanted them to be. Of course I didn’t believe that Hillary Clinton herself could believe her own press releases.
But now I think that maybe she did. If today’s desperate open letter to Obama reflects panic that Michigan may be seated in a fair rather than disproportionate way, then perhaps she actually has believed until now that Michigan would save her. Which means she actually has believed, until now, that the superdelegates will flock to her at the last minute. Which means she actually has believed, until now, that she really is the only electable candidate, and perhaps that fate has willed her to be President the same way George W. Bush believes God willed him to be President.
Remind me: which candidate has the Messiah complex, again?
Read the whole thing. . .
32.
yet another jeff
Paul L. Says:
And yes John C wrote that Dan Abrams is not a liberal.
Dan Abrams is a liberal now? Missed that memo.
Well, thanks for providing the memo. An invaluable service.
33.
Frank Jacobs
Democrats have an opportunity to promote unity and defy divisive rhetoric. Please, stop these inflammatory Hillary death watch discussions. Folks on the Obama side have known that the numbers have been with them for some time now. What is the point of stoping the campaaign now? To end early, before the rest of the primaries – and there are only, what, 6 more? – are run, would lend a “spoiler” feel to the whole process.
I realize that it’s not exactly a fair analogy, but who here remembers just how pissed off they were when the Florida recount was halted in 2000? Sure, the numbers might have ended up supporting Bush in the end, anyway, but the point was that now we’ll never know that. Everything that came after that, from the Supreme Court decision to the subsequent moot recounts, was colored by that anger and uncertainty. I strongly feel that these calls for Hillary to drop out are perceived by Hillary’s supporters analogous to the Brooks Brothers Riot, at least in principle, and we need to consider that they may have a good point.
Sometimes doing the ethical, just thing is hard – even painful, but I feel that Obama supporters owe it to the party and to ourselves to live up to the principles of fair play, and yes, those principles apply even when dealing with those who some perceive guilty of unfair play. In pragmatic terms, the harm to the party by trying to end this process now far outweighs the general election consequences of letting it go forward.
That said, I truly hope that the Clinton and Obama campaigns start to talk to each other very soon and begin to really plan out where we go from here when the dust from the primaries has settled.
34.
Rick Taylor
To end early, before the rest of the primaries – and there are only, what, 6 more? – are run, would lend a “spoiler” feel to the whole process.
I’d agree with you if the race was extremely close and Clinton had any chance to win. I might even agree with you if she was carrying out a dignified campaign, stressing her signature issues, and not settling on a messages that she should be the nominee because she’s the one who appeals to working class white people, while blustering the Michigan delegates must be seated where she ran essentially unopposed. I was convinced this had to end when she started declaring she was winning among middle class white Americans, continuing this sort of destructive primary is not without cost. If nothing else, funds and attention are being used that could be better spent on other races. And suggesting Hillary didn’t get a fair shake at this point is so incredibly absurd; I don’t think any other candidate could have ever stayed in this long. Can you imagine if Clinton had a 100 delegate lead and Obama was still in the race now, calling for the votes he won in an unsanctioned primary he ran in unopposed, while arguing he should be the nominee because we needed a candidate who could appeal to hard working black people? It’s simply unthinkable.
That said, I truly hope that the Clinton and Obama campaigns start to talk to each other very soon and begin to really plan out where we go from here when the dust from the primaries has settled
Agreed.
35.
Rick Taylor
There’s a fascinating post over at Vichy Democrats that should be read in its entirety.
I’d agree with you if the race was extremely close and Clinton had any chance to win. [SNIP] And suggesting Hillary didn’t get a fair shake at this point is so incredibly absurd; I don’t think any other candidate could have ever stayed in this long. Can you imagine if Clinton had a 100 delegate lead and Obama was still in the race now, calling for the votes he won in an unsanctioned primary he ran in unopposed, while arguing he should be the nominee because we needed a candidate who could appeal to hard working black people? It’s simply unthinkable.
Rick, I can’t dispute a single point you’ve made. These are all perfectly sound arguments. What I’m speaking of, however, isn’t the reality of the situation, it is the perception. And, it’s also important to remember that I’m not just talking about giving Hillary a fair shake, I’m talking about making sure that her supporters feel that they’ve gotten a fair shake. Now, I realize that there are some folks who will not be appeased by anything short of her nomination, and that’s something that’s simply not going to happen at this point, but I feel that it’s important to demonstrate that it’s because “the people have spoken” as it were, and not because their candidate was somehow unfairly forced out by the media and “party elites.”
These folks are our fellow Democrats, and I feel very strong affinity to them, regardless of what I feel about their candidate. This has been an excruciating process, and I wish to God that it hadn’t played out the way that it has, but that horse is long out of the barn. Let them have their say and let the democratic process decide who wins the nomination.
And yes, I fully appreciate the mind-boggling irony of the notion that the Clintons could be undone by “party elites.”
37.
Rick Taylor
And, it’s also important to remember that I’m not just talking about giving Hillary a fair shake, I’m talking about making sure that her supporters feel that they’ve gotten a fair shake. Now, I realize that there are some folks who will not be appeased by anything short of her nomination, and that’s something that’s simply not going to happen at this point, but I feel that it’s important to demonstrate that it’s because “the people have spoken” as it were, and not because their candidate was somehow unfairly forced out by the media and “party elites.”
If Hillary Clinton were making any effort to bring about unity at this point, I might agree with you. But the thing is, even though there might be some value in giving time to bring closure to the process (and I was thinking the way you are now about a week ago), is not without costs. Every day we continue the charade that the outcome of the contest is seriously in doubt is another day of giving Clinton a platform to stab the Democratic party in the back. Look what’s happened just since North Carolina. For the first time, her campaign has explicitly brought up the race of her supporters as a reason should be the nominee. Great. That meme now has new respectability, the media has already picked it up as a frame, the right wing will certainly be grateful, and her supporters will be encouraged to nurse grievances that that Obama only one because of his support among black voters. And she pushed Michigan and Florida. Wonderful. Now more of the groundwork for her supporters have been laid to sit out the election, because not granting her the delegates from michigan means the election was stolen.
The thing is, the theoretical value of the catharsis and sense of closure her supporters might or might not gain by drawing out the primary is outweighed by the damage Clinton is doing to the party every single day right now. Do you want to keep going, and see what she comes up with next? I sure don’t! I’m still reeling in shock from her making the election about race.
Also, I think you may just be a bit condescending towards Hillary’s supporters. At least some of them seem to understand the race is pretty much settled. Maybe they don’t need to be coddled? Maybe we don’t need to pretend there’s any doubt in the outcome, prolonging an expensive bruising primary so as to make them feel better. I agree, we shouldn’t go out of our way to offend each other, and I think we could dispense with some of the anti-Hillary humor that’s been going around. But I don’t think we need to walk on tip toes and put on a Kabuki theater for their sakes; I doubt they’d appreciate it to be honest.
38.
flyerhawk
Wilfred,
I have taken a break from RedState. I am much too politically charged right now to engage with the RedState faithful. I drop in once in a while but until the election is over I won’t argue with them too much.
It will be fun to dissect their silly arguments once Obama sits down in the Oval Office, though.
39.
Frank Jacobs
I agree, we shouldn’t go out of our way to offend each other, and I think we could dispense with some of the anti-Hillary humor that’s been going around.
That was really my original point. The rest was my own internal dialogue about the way things have been playing out in recent weeks.
But I don’t think we need to walk on tip toes and put on a Kabuki theater for their sakes; I doubt they’d appreciate it to be honest.
You may be right about that. It is certainly not my intention to be condescending here, and if I’ve been selling her supporters short in terms of realism, I apologize. I’m just sincerely concerned about the terrible rift that exists now between her core and Obama’s core, as exmplified by the rhetoric found in so many discussions in the last few weeks. Frankly, I don’t see any easy way out of this situation, but at the very least a toning-down of the bashing would be something.
John Cole Says:
May 8, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Not taking the bait.
Let me just remind you that:
– It’ll be a while before football starts up again, and this is a fine opportunity to get in some trash talking in the off-season. Stay in shape if you will. Some might even argue that you’ve got the higher ground here.
– Every day you stay engaged in it is another day that you can have a really fun all-out food fight about something much, much more important than that crap Armando’s getting you to respond to.
– Every day you keep it going, at least until the Oregon primary, is another day that those of us in the studio audience don’t have to think about primaries. There’s not much left to go, and we’d be grateful.
Now. With all that in mind. You sure you don’t want the bait? It’s lookin’ pretty tasty now, isn’t it?
41.
dj spellchecka
hillary now making west virginia victory sound like a vitally important litmus test…
“Because for too long we have let places like West Virginia slip out of the Democratic column and you know it is a fact that no Democratic president has ever won the White House since 1916 without winning West Virginia.”
however, winning west virginia isn’t a sure way to the white house. Such Democratic losers as Hubert Humphries (35% of the electoral college, 1968), Michael Dukakis (20% of the electoral college, 1988), Adlai Stevenson (17% of the electoral college, 1952), and Jimmy [bless his nobel-winning soul] Carter (9% of the electoral college, 1980) also all won West Virginia.
42.
tom.a
I’m going with May 20th as well. She’ll be able to bow out on a somewhat high note winning WV and KY and will let Obama give the final speech that night in OR. It’ll make her look good, make him look good and will keep her from pissing off too many Democrats who want this over. Of course, this is a best case scenario so who knows?
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cleek
august 27
August J. Pollak
TalkLeft now has a thread up where the commenters are savaging Obama because they’ve decided they know who he’s going to nominate for Attorney General and they don’t like him.
I really don’t care about Clinton any more. She’s honestly harmless. Her followers are scaring the shit out of me.
I simply don’t believe Armando’s “of COURSE I’ll vote for Obama (once the bat I’m cracking his skull open with breaks apart)” rhetoric any more. These people don’t want Obama to win. They don’t want Obama to win because they’d rather be “right.”
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
She won’t.
SA2SQ, etc.
yet another jeff
Hell, she’s going to as for another 20 debates…she’ll even propose to debate on the floor of the convention…winner takes all.
His Grace
She’ll either concede or, well become a joke.
By May 20th, Obama will have locked in a majority of the pledged delegates. He probably will have a plurality of super delegates as well. She probably hoped to keep it alive until June 15th or so, but my guess is it won’t get that far.
Despite all the rhetoric of a convention fight, she would have to be absolutely insane for that to happen.
Ugh
There’s a diary on DKos right now that says Edwards slipped up on MSNBC this morning and said he voted for “him” and that he intends to endorse e person he voted for “soon.”
yet another jeff
Armando is the reason I don’t go to Talk Left any more…it was a nice place “back in the day” but it’s too full of strongarmed whininess now. I still like Jeralyn, but Armando is full of the tainting.
Jake
Kos has a diary up claiming Edwards slipped this AM and basically admitted he voted for Obama. I think that’s right. Here’s the video:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24538467#24538467
Another super also defected to Obama today. I don’t see her conceding before WV, but who knows. The pressure only seems to be increasing.
yet another jeff
Aww, she can stay in until after WV…she has to…John Cole needs the chance to vote against her. He deserves the chance to vote against her, to vote for Obama. John needs closure.
August J. Pollak
Aww, she can stay in until after WV…she has to…John Cole needs the chance to vote against her. He deserves the chance to vote against her, to vote for Obama. John needs closure.
Except that’s what makes Clinton’s “we should allow every state to vote” nonsense such utter bullshit. The ballots are already locked in. If she drops out or suspends her campaign this afternoon, there will still be primary elections in every remaining state, and everyone in those states can still vote for her if they want.
“Count MI and FL” and “let’s let every state vote” and all the other lines being smarmily parroted by places like TalkLeft and Taylor Marsh are just stupid dog whistles for “we actually still think we can win.” There’s no “principle” here.
Why are her supporters so damn gleeful that Clinton is accepting electoral reality with less dignity than Mitt fucking Romney?
yet another jeff
Well…I’m still not saying anything but “Fuck MI and FL”, as Bill Hicks said “buy the ticket, take the ride.”
Dork
That’s a GREAT simpsons episode.
Zifnab
Fixed.
Wilfred
She won’t. Now that she’s descended to race-baiting (again) I hope all the assholes who were hoping for reconciliation with her and First Scumbag have FINALLY perceived the reality behind the mask. Obama has to put miles between him and them. In the end, she had nothing to offer except pseudo-populism and dog-whistle race-based politics.
Remember that when the pity party starts for giving her Senate Majority leader.
EdTheRed
Rachel Maddow was right…of course, I knew she was when she told the rest of the talking heads on MSNBC that Hillary wasn’t going to concede…to paraphrase: Her campaign didn’t make any sense the day before NC/IN, so why should the results in those states stop her?
I’ve made the comparison before, and I’ll make it again:
Hillary has entered into Norma Desmond territory.
cleek
as much as i dislike her, i can’t see how she’d be worse than Reid.
Rick Taylor
More convincing than parsing his words is just listening to the whole thing. I can’t imagine him talking the way he’s talking if he didn’t understand very well the election is essentially over. He repeated over and over again how Clinton could stay in as long as she was pushing up her positives and not driving up his negatives.
As much as I can’t understand why Clinton is continuing to stay in the race, i can’t understand why super-delegates are still refusing to admit who they’ve voted for, to bring the process to an end. Edwards couldn’t have been comfortable having to sit there and answer for Clinton’s comments on how she gets the white working class vote, or her continued demands to seat all the delegates from the unsanctioned primaries. I just don’t see the purpose of them holding back. At this point, what is the purpose prolonging the primary when the outcome is known? If Clinton was using this time to bring attention and push the debate on some of her signature issues like health care, I could understand it, but as it is, I don’t understand the purpose of holding back and letting this go on, giving her space to attempt to hold Michigan and Florida hostage, and make the case she should win because white people vote for her; not to mention that there must be other races and Democratic candidates that deserve peoples attention, time and money. Is it some extreme form of politeness towards Clinton? I don’t get it.
Wilfred
I think it’s becoming clearer that Obama’s victory signifies a fundamental shift from the DLC centered power base towards an as yet undetermined new way of doing things. The Democrats are like the Lollipop League in The Wizard of Oz, cautiously prodding the corpse of the Wicked Witch to make sure she really is dead this time before breaking out into song.
Svensker
A Clinton supporter commenting over at Sadly,No said that if the Democrats nominate Obama, then it was time for the Democratic Party to learn a lesson, and if that took John McCain being president, war with Iran, and two more conservative Supremes, she would either stay home or vote for McCain to make sure the Dems learned. (Her name was not P.Luk. by the way.)
And they accuse Obama supporters of being a cult?
Captaincooked
Wilfred,
I just want to make sure you have your Munchkin organizations correct. I believe it’s the Lullaby League and the Lollipop Guild.
John S.
Iris is as crazy as p.luk, so it might as well have been him.
yet another jeff
No, it’s just that they have to think happy thoughts or Hillary will send them to the cornfield.
Paul L.
So much for John C’s declaration that Dan Abrams is not a liberal.
Rick Taylor
That’s a common sentiment. Even if they’re planning to vote for Obama (which seems to be a minority), they’re rubbing their hands in anticipation of how badly he’ll loose in November, so we Obamabots will finally see they were right all along and he could never beat McCain in the general. Sad.
Paul L.
And yes John C wrote that Dan Abrams is not a liberal.
4tehlulz
So in sum, she would rather destroy the country than vote for
a niggera non-Clinton.Nice. How Republican of her.
flyerhawk
Clinton will bow out next month. By June 9th Hillary will concede.
We can run out the string but it’s over and she knows it. Obama knows it.
If by June 10th she hasn’t conceded, we begin carpet bombing the Clinton campaign. But right now, she isn’t doing anything wrong.
Soylent Green
I posted this late last night to the end of a dead thread so no one saw it. Except Nightjar, thanks for the good word, NJ. So here it is again if that’s okay.
Stupid, no, blinded by her need to get out from behind Bill’s shadow, yes. They are a team, but he has always been the senior partner, while she has waited, waited, waited for her turn. Poor Hillary, all those years in the White House being left out of the action, bravely smiling her way through an endless blur of state dinners and fetes and funerals while she waited for her turn. Wonkish Hillary, reading the briefing papers except the ones for which she lacked clearance, waiting for the policy meetings to end to which she wasn’t invited, always on the outside looking in, like a child at the window of a candy store. Loyal Hillary standing by her man as he was being mercilessly hounded by the right-wing conspiracy, choking down her pride and hurt each of the many times he cheated on her, the tawdry details shared with the world. Clever Hillary getting herself elected to the U.S. Senate from a big and powerful state although she had little interest in the business of the Senate, a token springboard to the real prize, parity with Bill, her turn in the big chair after 35 years of standing in his shadow. Then the time finally came, the opportunity ripe, her hard work and name recognition and the people’s nostalgia for the good years, the Clinton years, all coming together at last. Into the campaign Hillary marched, knocking off weaker challengers, charging well into the lead, taking the pole position for the primary. Then out of nowhere, some upstart, some nobody, some fresh-faced kid, some smooth-talking charlatan jumped in front of her in line and stole it all away. The rage she must feel, the seething fury she must struggle to contain, the agony of having to keep going out there smiling and laughing and looking strong and confident in her pastel pantsuits while this nobody from nowhere effortlessly loped ahead, stealing her media, stealing her voting blocs, stealing her prize, all while spouting some nonsense about hope for America. Bill promised it to her, it was hers for the taking and all she had to do was take it. She owes it to all those hard-working whites who share her values, except in states that don’t count. And take it she will, by hell or high water, and the devil take the hindmost. “As God is my witness,” cries out Hillary as the sun rises over West Virginia, “as God is my witness they’re not going to lick me! I’m going to live through this and when it’s all over, I’ll never be hungry again!”
Wilfred
And the race-baiting? BTW, still slinging at RedState?
Rick Taylor
There’s a fascinating post over at Vichy Democrats that should be read in its entirety.
Rick Taylor
This passage is especially telling
Read the whole thing. . .
yet another jeff
Well, thanks for providing the memo. An invaluable service.
Frank Jacobs
Democrats have an opportunity to promote unity and defy divisive rhetoric. Please, stop these inflammatory Hillary death watch discussions. Folks on the Obama side have known that the numbers have been with them for some time now. What is the point of stoping the campaaign now? To end early, before the rest of the primaries – and there are only, what, 6 more? – are run, would lend a “spoiler” feel to the whole process.
I realize that it’s not exactly a fair analogy, but who here remembers just how pissed off they were when the Florida recount was halted in 2000? Sure, the numbers might have ended up supporting Bush in the end, anyway, but the point was that now we’ll never know that. Everything that came after that, from the Supreme Court decision to the subsequent moot recounts, was colored by that anger and uncertainty. I strongly feel that these calls for Hillary to drop out are perceived by Hillary’s supporters analogous to the Brooks Brothers Riot, at least in principle, and we need to consider that they may have a good point.
Sometimes doing the ethical, just thing is hard – even painful, but I feel that Obama supporters owe it to the party and to ourselves to live up to the principles of fair play, and yes, those principles apply even when dealing with those who some perceive guilty of unfair play. In pragmatic terms, the harm to the party by trying to end this process now far outweighs the general election consequences of letting it go forward.
That said, I truly hope that the Clinton and Obama campaigns start to talk to each other very soon and begin to really plan out where we go from here when the dust from the primaries has settled.
Rick Taylor
I’d agree with you if the race was extremely close and Clinton had any chance to win. I might even agree with you if she was carrying out a dignified campaign, stressing her signature issues, and not settling on a messages that she should be the nominee because she’s the one who appeals to working class white people, while blustering the Michigan delegates must be seated where she ran essentially unopposed. I was convinced this had to end when she started declaring she was winning among middle class white Americans, continuing this sort of destructive primary is not without cost. If nothing else, funds and attention are being used that could be better spent on other races. And suggesting Hillary didn’t get a fair shake at this point is so incredibly absurd; I don’t think any other candidate could have ever stayed in this long. Can you imagine if Clinton had a 100 delegate lead and Obama was still in the race now, calling for the votes he won in an unsanctioned primary he ran in unopposed, while arguing he should be the nominee because we needed a candidate who could appeal to hard working black people? It’s simply unthinkable.
Agreed.
Rick Taylor
Rats, I got the link wrong up above. Here it is.
Frank Jacobs
Rick, I can’t dispute a single point you’ve made. These are all perfectly sound arguments. What I’m speaking of, however, isn’t the reality of the situation, it is the perception. And, it’s also important to remember that I’m not just talking about giving Hillary a fair shake, I’m talking about making sure that her supporters feel that they’ve gotten a fair shake. Now, I realize that there are some folks who will not be appeased by anything short of her nomination, and that’s something that’s simply not going to happen at this point, but I feel that it’s important to demonstrate that it’s because “the people have spoken” as it were, and not because their candidate was somehow unfairly forced out by the media and “party elites.”
These folks are our fellow Democrats, and I feel very strong affinity to them, regardless of what I feel about their candidate. This has been an excruciating process, and I wish to God that it hadn’t played out the way that it has, but that horse is long out of the barn. Let them have their say and let the democratic process decide who wins the nomination.
And yes, I fully appreciate the mind-boggling irony of the notion that the Clintons could be undone by “party elites.”
Rick Taylor
If Hillary Clinton were making any effort to bring about unity at this point, I might agree with you. But the thing is, even though there might be some value in giving time to bring closure to the process (and I was thinking the way you are now about a week ago), is not without costs. Every day we continue the charade that the outcome of the contest is seriously in doubt is another day of giving Clinton a platform to stab the Democratic party in the back. Look what’s happened just since North Carolina. For the first time, her campaign has explicitly brought up the race of her supporters as a reason should be the nominee. Great. That meme now has new respectability, the media has already picked it up as a frame, the right wing will certainly be grateful, and her supporters will be encouraged to nurse grievances that that Obama only one because of his support among black voters. And she pushed Michigan and Florida. Wonderful. Now more of the groundwork for her supporters have been laid to sit out the election, because not granting her the delegates from michigan means the election was stolen.
The thing is, the theoretical value of the catharsis and sense of closure her supporters might or might not gain by drawing out the primary is outweighed by the damage Clinton is doing to the party every single day right now. Do you want to keep going, and see what she comes up with next? I sure don’t! I’m still reeling in shock from her making the election about race.
Also, I think you may just be a bit condescending towards Hillary’s supporters. At least some of them seem to understand the race is pretty much settled. Maybe they don’t need to be coddled? Maybe we don’t need to pretend there’s any doubt in the outcome, prolonging an expensive bruising primary so as to make them feel better. I agree, we shouldn’t go out of our way to offend each other, and I think we could dispense with some of the anti-Hillary humor that’s been going around. But I don’t think we need to walk on tip toes and put on a Kabuki theater for their sakes; I doubt they’d appreciate it to be honest.
flyerhawk
Wilfred,
I have taken a break from RedState. I am much too politically charged right now to engage with the RedState faithful. I drop in once in a while but until the election is over I won’t argue with them too much.
It will be fun to dissect their silly arguments once Obama sits down in the Oval Office, though.
Frank Jacobs
That was really my original point. The rest was my own internal dialogue about the way things have been playing out in recent weeks.
You may be right about that. It is certainly not my intention to be condescending here, and if I’ve been selling her supporters short in terms of realism, I apologize. I’m just sincerely concerned about the terrible rift that exists now between her core and Obama’s core, as exmplified by the rhetoric found in so many discussions in the last few weeks. Frankly, I don’t see any easy way out of this situation, but at the very least a toning-down of the bashing would be something.
chiggins
John, regarding this over at The Editors’ place:
John Cole Says:
May 8, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Not taking the bait.
Let me just remind you that:
– It’ll be a while before football starts up again, and this is a fine opportunity to get in some trash talking in the off-season. Stay in shape if you will. Some might even argue that you’ve got the higher ground here.
– Every day you stay engaged in it is another day that you can have a really fun all-out food fight about something much, much more important than that crap Armando’s getting you to respond to.
– Every day you keep it going, at least until the Oregon primary, is another day that those of us in the studio audience don’t have to think about primaries. There’s not much left to go, and we’d be grateful.
Now. With all that in mind. You sure you don’t want the bait? It’s lookin’ pretty tasty now, isn’t it?
dj spellchecka
hillary now making west virginia victory sound like a vitally important litmus test…
“Because for too long we have let places like West Virginia slip out of the Democratic column and you know it is a fact that no Democratic president has ever won the White House since 1916 without winning West Virginia.”
however, winning west virginia isn’t a sure way to the white house. Such Democratic losers as Hubert Humphries (35% of the electoral college, 1968), Michael Dukakis (20% of the electoral college, 1988), Adlai Stevenson (17% of the electoral college, 1952), and Jimmy [bless his nobel-winning soul] Carter (9% of the electoral college, 1980) also all won West Virginia.
tom.a
I’m going with May 20th as well. She’ll be able to bow out on a somewhat high note winning WV and KY and will let Obama give the final speech that night in OR. It’ll make her look good, make him look good and will keep her from pissing off too many Democrats who want this over. Of course, this is a best case scenario so who knows?