Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Let’s finish the job.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

Infrastructure week. at last.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

This blog will pay for itself.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / The Final Metric

The Final Metric

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ABC is reporting that Obama has surpassed Clinton in super delegate support:

ABC News’ Karen Travers Reports: For the first time this campaign season, Barack Obama has surpassed Hillary Clinton’s support among superdelegates, according to the ABC News delegate estimate.

Sen. Obama, D-Ill., picked up two superdelegates this morning giving him a new metric to tout in addition to his current commanding leads in pledged delegates, popular votes, states won, and money raised.

Rep. Donald Payne, D-N.J., switched his endorsement from Clinton to Obama and Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., endorsed Obama. DeFazio was previously uncommitted.

With these endorsements, Obama has the support of 267 superdelegates and Clinton has 265 superdelegates.

Every news organization’s superdelegate count is a little different because it is an imperfect science. Since October 2007, the Political Unit has continuously reached out to the nearly 800 superdelegates to determine their candidate preference. We also reach out regularly to the Obama and Clinton campaigns for their superdelegate lists and work to confirm any that they include on their lists.

Clinton’s advantage among superdelegates was once massive and has been dwindling steadily since Super Tuesday, when she was ahead by over 60 superdelegates.

Clinton’s institutional support from within the Democratic Party allowed her to build a commanding lead in superdelegates over Obama in the early part of this nomination battle.

This thing is slowly working itself out, and I would expect to see a few more of these in the next few days:

Rep. Donald Payne (D-10th Dist.), a New Jersey superdelegate who had been supporting Hillary Clinton for president, has switched his allegiance to Barack Obama.

“After careful consideration, I have reached the conclusion that Barack Obama can best bring about the change that our country so desperately wants and needs,” Payne told The Star-Ledger for today’s editions. It was “one of the most difficult decisions I have made,” Payne said. “I’ve really been mulling it over for quite a while.”

With Payne’s switch Obama has the backing of five of New Jersey’s 20 superdelegates. Clinton has 11, including Gov. Jon Corzine; three are uncommitted and one who has backed Clinton is wavering.

The end is near, thankfully.

*** Update ***

Apparently he is+8 supers today.

Reader Interactions

146Comments

  4. 4.

    Bootlegger

    Money dwidling, superdelegate support fading, West Virginia and Kentucky are the key now, absolutely essentail dammit. If she wins those two states 80-20% surely she’ll be able to sweep in to the nomination. If only they had a pitcture of Obama eating white babies.

  5. 5.

    rob!

    considering how accurate the Obama campaign’s internal expectations have been in regards to how many pledged delegates they’d win in each state, i wouldn’t be surprised if they are releasing just enough supers to be in a position to have Oregon to put them over the top, that way they can say “the voters made me the nominee”.

    it’d be a bigger deal, impressions-wise, to see him clinch this on TV, where he gets to deliver a victory speech, as opposed to having some unknown super be the one that makes it 2026 (or whatever number Hillary has moved it to today).

  6. 6.

    joe

    Good point, rob!

    I’ve been noticing for a while that the Obama campaign seems to be stage-managing the timing of endorsements to maximize their media impact. For example, John Kerry endorsing him is only a story in Massachusetts. Janet Napolitano endorsing him is only a story in Arizona. But both of them endorsing him on the same day is national news.

  7. 7.

    zzyzx

    You want proof it’s over? Rassmussen is about to end it’s daily Clinton/Obama tracking:

    However, while Senator Clinton has remained close and competitive in every meaningful measure, she is a close second and the race is over. It has become clear that Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee.

    At the moment, Senator Clinton’s team is busily trying to convince Superdelegates and pundits that she is more electable than Barack Obama. For reasons discussed in a separate article, it doesn’t matter. Even if every single Superdelegate was convinced that the former First Lady is somewhat more electable than Obama, that is not enough of a reason to deny him the nomination.

    With this in mind, Rasmussen Reports will soon end our daily tracking of the Democratic race and focus exclusively on the general election competition between Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama. Barring something totally unforeseen, that is the choice American voters will have before them in November. While we have not firmly decided upon a final day for tracking the Democratic race, it is coming soon.

  8. 8.

    Jen

    2026 (or whatever number Hillary has moved it to today).

    I think it was 2,209 or something.

    I know.

  9. 9.

    Punchy

    Fear of a Barack Planet!

    Superdellys lining up for Osama means he’s totally unelectable. I’m surprised so many soops have been duped by Semi-White Chocolate. Clearly, nobody likes this guy.

  10. 10.

    drag0n

    John.

    It is over. I don’t care about Hillary any more. She is finished. Move on… let her stay in till mid next week. She IS FINISHED.

    OLD NEWS.

  11. 11.

    drag0n

    The end has passed. Post about McCain. She is just sticking in for the press and to not humiliate Obama next week (cuz he will lose those contests).

    It’s history. It is over. They are just gaming the press now.

  12. 12.

    rob!

    if she gives her concession speech on TV, i’m going to record it and watch it over and over and over like I’m Oliver Stone and the Zapruder film.

    and then i’m gonna give $25 more to Obama.

  14. 14.

    Jen

    Okay, I know this is not how these things work and I do know that R turnout for the general will be higher than it was for the primary. But I just played with these numbers for fun, in light of all the HRC people saying they’d never vote for Obama.

    In NC, which hasn’t gone blue since Jimmy Carter, let’s say that everyone who voted for Obama in the primary comes out to vote for him in the general, and the same is true for McCain. The Hillary voters go 10% for Obama, 85% for McCain, 5% stay home to wash their cats and sulk.

    Obama wins.

    That makes me smile.

  16. 16.

    Wilfred

    The end is near, thankfully.

    Clinton is using the Michael Yon metric – increased American deaths in Iraq is a sign we’re winning. Increased Supers for Obama means she’s winning! Yeah!

  17. 17.

    drag0n

    Rob!

    She gave her fucking concession speech. Now it is just a show to stay in the press. to keep McCain out.

    John should know this.

    Every time I see a post here about her since last tuesday I want to toss my fucking laptop out the goddamned window.

    it’s just a question of dotting the i’s, crossing the t’s and gaming the press.

    THIS IS NOW OFFICIALLY BORING!

  18. 18.

    The Moar You Know

    Heard that fucktard Terry McAuliffe on the radio this morning with some bitter, snippy remark about how Obama didn’t have a majority of ALL the delgates yet (clearly referring to Michigan and Florida, and the campaign’s desire to see Hillary be awarded the entirety of those delegates).

    This isn’t moving the goalposts, this is her campaign ripping them out of the ground, throwing them in the back of Hillary’s newly acquired beat-up, spit-stained 1971 Ford pickup, and hauling them off to the town dump.

    Fortunately, it appears that nobody else seems inclined to play along. This is good news about the superdelegates.

  19. 19.

    Jen

    She gave her fucking concession speech. Now it is just a show to stay in the press. to keep McCain out.

    Neither one of those statements make any sense to me. She didn’t give a concession speech, the media is ignoring her anyway, and the WaPo’s lead is McCain’s shady land deals to friends.

    It is now officially awesome.

  20. 20.

    4tehlulz

    Now it is just a show to stay in the press. to keep McCain out.

    To keep McCain out? lol.

  22. 22.

    rob!

    She gave her fucking concession speech.

    c’mon, no she hasn’t. believe me, I WISH SHE HAD, but she hasn’t.

    i know this is all a sham, but there will be that sweet, sweet moment where she stands at her podium, begs for some more donations, then packs it in. and i will watch it like its an episode of Arrested Developmemt–over and over, laughing the whole time.

    after all she’s put the country and the party through, i’m going to embrace my Inner A-Hole and enjoy the pure look of misery on her supporters faces, and they realize that Hillary will, in fact, not be the president.

    that will eventually wear off, and i’ll be happy to see her campaign for him, but for a week or so, i’ll still be in Hate Hillary and All Her Dumbass Dead-Ender Supporters Mode.

  23. 23.

    Kevin K.

    5% stay home to wash their cats and sulk.

    QOTD.

    Now I’ve got to wash away the image of SusanUnPC scraping cat hair off of her tongue.

  24. 24.

    TheFountainHead

    Who is this Drag0n character, and what planet is he from? Everyone has seen enough Zombie/Vampire/Monster flicks to know that it isn’t over until the head is removed and the sun dawns the morning after. I’m not sure we’ve arrived at the Denouement yet.

  27. 27.

    TheFountainHead

    They are only bringing out the votes guys…..

    Who are they and what votes are they bringing out? Are you saying Hillary is ensuring the African American vote by telling them they don’t count, or is she bringing out the white vote for Obama by guilting them into proving they weren’t voting for HER because HE is black? I’m confuzzled.

  28. 28.

    Zifnab

    Do we put up a “Hillary / Nadar ’08” watch now, or wait till August?

  29. 29.

    TheFountainHead

    On another note, it has struck me as remarkable, to a certain degree, that Obama has become the “African American” candidate and that you rarely if ever hear him refered to as “half-black, half-white” nor is it oft mentioned that his mother was white and he was raised primarily by white people. I don’t think it OUGHT to be stated more, mind you, I just think it’s interesting that that is a meme nary to be found throughout this process, and I wonder at what point did the media, the voters, et al, decide that his heritage needed to be simplified to “black”.

    This is the type of thing that absorbs my mind on the way to work.

  30. 30.

    Soylent Green

    I used to think we had to beg the McCain-leaning Clintards to let it go and pledge to vote for Obama in the GE, or we would snatch defeat. Now I say fuck ’em, we don’t need DINOs in the party and we’ll win without them.

    It’s heartening to remember that the delusions being spouted on the blogs are not representative of the electorate as a whole, that blogs may influence pundits but don’t reach the masses the way they think they do. Most of Clinton’s many supporters, unexposed to all this Obama-hating poison, will sigh into their cornflakes and come over to Barack without question.

  31. 31.

    SnarkyShark

    Heard that fucktard Terry McAuliffe on the radio this morning with some bitter, snippy remark about how Obama didn’t have a majority of ALL the delgates yet (clearly referring to Michigan and Florida, and the campaign’s desire to see Hillary be awarded the entirety of those delegates).

    May I just take this moment to bloviate on the imminent demise of a bastion of the last few election cycles.

    Fuck Terry McAuliffe gently with a dull rusty chainsaw. I will book a passage from anywhere int the world to come piss on your grave in the days after you are planted. In the world of losers, you are the alpha and the omega. You are the head clown in the circus of human stupidity. Howard Dean is the head of the DNC and you are a relic of the worse bunch of losers that ever tried to pretend they had a clue.

    I find there to be no value to your existence. I think you are and continue to be a waste of sperm, protein and oxygen which could be better used by a third world dictator.I pray that your wife will leave you, your children will claim to be spawned by the garbage-men, and your dog will run away. It is my fervent hope you end up alone, broke, and despised by all around you.

    Goodbye, good riddance, and enjoy your last act in this increasingly hilarious farce you had such a hand in creating.

  33. 33.

    4tehlulz

    >>It is my fervent hope you end up alone, broke, and despised by all around you.

    One can only dream, but I’m sure we can look forward to years of appearances on Russert to tear down President Obama at every turn.

  34. 34.

    cleek

    at what point did the media, the voters, et al, decide that his heritage needed to be simplified to “black”.

    Black man, black woman, black baby
    White man, white woman, white baby
    White man, black woman, black baby
    Black man, white woman, black baby

  36. 36.

    wasabi gasp

    If the Clinton campaign needs money to pay down their debt, they should stick a video cam on her melon. I’d pay money to see that right about now.

  37. 37.

    leinie

    Punchy, yeah, WTF?

    The were for mothers before they were against them?

    I know they’ve been pulling hissy fits in the House, doing procedural shennanigans to bring it to a halt, not sure why, but this is just unbelievable.

  38. 38.

    Ninerdave

    The Final Metric

    Supers Automatics are so passé, Hillary has the white vote now. That’s the only metric that counts.

    Viva Whitey!

  40. 40.

    Kirk

    Fountainhead,

    Just remember, there’s always the sequel, when the undead walk again.

  44. 44.

    John S.

    Black man, black woman, black baby
    White man, white woman, white baby
    White man, black woman, black baby
    Black man, white woman, black baby

    Oh wow, I totally forgot about that song – it’s been a while! I have that album on cassette somewhere…although I don’t think I have anything to play it on anymore.

  45. 45.

    Tsulagi

    Can anyone explain this to me?

    What retarded assholes. The Party of Bush paragons of family values wasting taxpayers’ money one dollar or trillion at a time.

  46. 46.

    Dork

    If the Clinton campaign needs money to pay down their debt, they should stick a video cam on her melon. I’d pay money to see that right about now.

    Oh…melon. I was sure you were going elsewhere with this.

  47. 47.

    phobos

    Finally, the metric I was waiting for. Now I can comfortably sit back and sip lattes from my “Kill Whitey” coffee mug while watching wingnuts freak out over two of their worst nightmares coming true simultaneously.

  48. 48.

    ThymeZone

    Um, confused. Aren’t some Superdelegates more important than others? Like states?

    Surely all of his are the unimportant ones.

  49. 49.

    srv

    The end is near, thankfully.

    I don’t know. What will you and Sully do w/o Hillary Hillary Hillary all the time?

    How about a story about taking finals in college, and having the bureaucracy lose your student ID. Of course you need your ID to take a final, so what do you do? What would it be like at Baghdad U?

  51. 51.

    wasabi gasp

    Oh…melon. I was sure you were going elsewhere with this.

    Yikes! I didn’t notice my comment was only one “S” away from describing a whole different kind of horror show.

  52. 52.

    SamFromUtah

    I wonder at what point did the media, the voters, et al, decide that his heritage needed to be simplified to “black”.

    Centuries ago – read Pudd’nhead Wilson.

  53. 53.

    TheFountainHead

    srv,

    While not making that story any less sad and pathetic, you do realize that the same level of corruption and red-tape shenanigans exists at all of our American Universities as well, right? I mean, it’s still bad, but it’s not like that’s unusual for any major university anywhere. I worked for the second largest University in Bangkok for a time, and it was as bad if not worse there. Schools are hotbeds for this kind of thing because policies are often put into place by administrators who are not trained or experienced in issues of security and/or do not employ staff properly trained/payed to handle the policies they put into effect. I guess what I’m trying to say is, that’s actually something I don’t think we should feel guilty for breaking in Iraq. We’ve broke worse things, like, you know, their basic infrastructure and economy.

  54. 54.

    Tropical Fats

    Can we start referring to her as “former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton” now?

  56. 56.

    Incertus

    Here’s how you can tell it’s really over–Obama saying that Florida will count. Maybe it’s his way of convincing the supers to put him over the top, or maybe he just knows that he’s got the insurmountable lead, but he’s feeling it, that’s for sure.

  57. 57.

    John Cole

    Can I still tell Armando to go fuck himself?

    Where do they get this notion that the goal of the Obama campaign is to purge middle class voters from the Democratic party? What the fuck is wrong with him?

  58. 58.

    John S.

    What the fuck is wrong with him?

    He’s an Obama concern troll of the highest order, and just looking out for his guy!

    /vomit

  59. 59.

    Dreggas

    John Cole Says:

    Can I still tell Armando to go fuck himself?

    Where do they get this notion that the goal of the Obama campaign is to purge middle class voters from the Democratic party? What the fuck is wrong with him?

    he’s mesmerized by the claginal kool-aid?

  60. 60.

    Face

    What the fuck is wrong with him?

    Uh, John? He’s a egomaniac, and although that’s a cliche, I mean it as it’s clinically defined. He wants you to write about him, he wants you to link to him, he needs people to respond to him.

    He’s the Ann Coulter of the progressives…will say anything to get attention.

  61. 61.

    Bootlegger

    you rarely if ever hear him refered to as “half-black, half-white”

    I believe the politically correct terms (if you’re a klan member) are mulatto or high yeller. So he is either the mulatto candidate or the high yeller candidate. But the “black candidate”? Nigga please!

  62. 62.

    LanceThruster

    Seems that the SD’s reluctance to jettison the Hildabeast somewhat matches the inaction of their party regarding ending the war.

    It’s as if Democrats will only make moves calculated to be safe, and then only after any value from making the decision in a timely manner has evaporated. I’ll be thankful that the Dem SD’s finally got on the ball, but am not encouraged by the foot-dragging in the least.

    I defended Hill and Bill during his presidency, but was distraught that she was the presumed nominee before it even started. I have some hope restored that many other Dems saw a better choice too and am excited about the prospect of an Obama presidency. Let’s work to protect against election fraud to keep the Rethuglicans from stealing yet another one.

  63. 63.

    Ninerdave

    It’s serious now folks. TPM has obtained a copy of the Hillary PowerPoint that shows definitively that Whitey likes Hillary better.

    This is terrible for the MUP.

    On a side note, John…are all your ads served by PJ Media or just the top one. I’m seeing an ad for Nine Inch Nails and thought he might be missing his target audience.

  64. 64.

    Dennis - SGMM

    August 27, 2008
    Clinton Campaign Rejects Convention Outcome
    Clinton campaign spokesman Howard Wolfson today told reporters that the Clinton campaign “Totally rejects the nomination of Barack Obama.” In response to questions Wolfson said that the move was justified. “Real Democrats would have nominated Hillary Clinton,” Wolfson explained, “Therefore the Clinton campaign regards this as a phony convention. Senator Clinton will campaign as the Democratic candidate for President no matter what the elites who form the so-called leadership of the party say or do.” Wolfson went on to assert that Clinton’s electability and whiteness would assure lead to easy victories over Republican John McCain and “the sham nominee.”

  65. 65.

    Rick Taylor

    I put this link in a previous thread to be active. It’s a must read at Vichy Democrat; an account of the Clinton campaign going nuts as Michigan looks like it might be resolved. The whole thing is worth reading but here’s an excerpt:

    Every other significant party leader and respectable (!) pundit has said all along that Michigan and Florida’s delegations will be seated by August – just not in any way that would alter the outcome of the nominating contest. The DNC has even reserved hotel space in Denver for those delegations. But Clinton has been saying, with increasing fervor, that not only would Michigan and Florida be seated – but seated exactly as they voted in January, with Clinton receiving a large majority of Florida’s delegates and Obama getting no Michigan delegates at all, since his name wasn’t even on the ballot. (That disingenuous Michigan math, by the way, is how Clinton was able to claim, for a brief period, that she had won more popular votes than Obama had nationwide: she didn’t count caucuses, and she gave him no votes in Michigan since, technically, someone not on the ballot can get none.)

    In the past, when Clinton stood firm on her “Obama gets no delegates from Michigan” stance, I assumed she was merely being tough and calculating. No sensible person reasonably expected the party’s elders to give Obama zero delegates if they seated Michigan. And Clinton’s own campaign staff seemed to admit yesterday that she could not win the race for elected delegates even if Michigan and Florida were counted the way she wanted them to be. Of course I didn’t believe that Hillary Clinton herself could believe her own press releases.

    But now I think that maybe she did. If today’s desperate open letter to Obama reflects panic that Michigan may be seated in a fair rather than disproportionate way, then perhaps she actually has believed until now that Michigan would save her. Which means she actually has believed, until now, that the superdelegates will flock to her at the last minute. Which means she actually has believed, until now, that she really is the only electable candidate, and perhaps that fate has willed her to be President the same way George W. Bush believes God willed him to be President.

    Remind me: which candidate has the Messiah complex, again?

  66. 66.

    Ugh

    Can I still tell Armando to go fuck himself?

    Sure, but is Obama really polling 30 points behind in WV right now? Has there been any post-Tuesday polls?

  67. 67.

    Dreggas

    Ninerdave Says:

    It’s serious now folks. TPM has obtained a copy of the Hillary PowerPoint that shows definitively that Whitey likes Hillary better.

    This is terrible for the MUP.

    On a side note, John…are all your ads served by PJ Media or just the top one. I’m seeing an ad for Nine Inch Nails and thought he might be missing his target audience.

    That power point is amusing considering many of the people in these “tougher districts” who are running want Obama as the nominee.

  68. 68.

    Rick Taylor

    WTF? Why would anyone vote against this? Huh? Wha? What the hell am I missing?

    What’s up next? Resolutions on baseball and apple pie?

  69. 69.

    John Cole

    I told you all a while back that Obama was going to get demolished in WV. It is why I am working for the campaign still, even though it is clear he has the nomination- need to keep the numbers down as much as possible. I still think he loses by 25-30 points. And that is a best case scenario.

    How Hillary ends her campaign goes a long way towards whether or not Democrats take the state in the fall.

    Another thing- guns will be a major issue in this state.

  70. 70.

    Mary

    Wow. I was just coming here to post that, Ninerdave. I really thought it was going to be a parody when I saw the link on the TPM front page, but it isn’t.

    And on preview: I know this is John’s place, with a pretty wide open comment section and one hell of a group of people with shared views and raw senses of humour (however you spell that word), but I may not be the only female commenter here who is uncomfortable with some of the sexualized rhetoric used about Clinton.

    I think it’s completely fair to comment on her dishonesty, her desperation, her willingness to say or do anything. But I do flinch when I see terms like “clagina”. (I’m not picking on Dreggas specifically: it’s just what I saw when I was scrolling.) Some of you may disagree, and may argue that it’s your right to say any damn thing you please. I’m not interested in having a full argument about that with you because I just don’t have the time. Maybe this will become a full debate with other people stepping in. I don’t know.

    But for now, would those of you on the fence take a second look at what you’ve written before you click Submit Comment and decide if the rhetoric is worth it? Thanks.

  71. 71.

    phobos

    Where do they get this notion that the goal of the Obama campaign is to purge middle class voters from the Democratic party? What the fuck is wrong with him?

    Apparently you can’t be white, working and creative all at the same time.

  72. 72.

    MBunge

    “What the fuck is wrong with him?”

    The problem with Armando is that Chris Matthews was right. The impeachment mess forged a deep, emotional, irrational bond between some folks and the Clintons. It’s a bond that’s different than GOPs have with Reagan or Dems have with FDR or JFK, because it has shit to do with policy, politics or the country as a whole.

    I can only compare it to this. On the day of Nixon’s funeral, I heard a liberal radio host go off on a rant about how horrible Nixon was and all I could think is “What the hell is this guy’s problem? He’s been bitching about Nixon for the last 30 years and I’m sure he’ll keep bitching about Nixon until the day he dies, but he can’t give it a rest for the one freakin’ day they’re putting the guy in the ground?” Then I realized that this guy has probably spent most of his life defining himself against Nixon. Deep down in this guy’s heart and soul, his self-image goes like this – Nixon is bad. I hate Nixon. Therefore I am good. This guy simply couldn’t stand anything that made Nixon seem even slightly less bad because that would make him less good.

    That’s the mindset operating with Armando and other Clinton deadenders. To them, Clinton = good. I support Clinton. Therefore, I am good. That means Obama and all other Not Clintons = bad. Hillary winning = personal validation. Hillary losing = personal condemnation.

    It’s hard to argue with someone who’s makes money by believing a certain thing. But it’s impossible to argue with someone who thinks they have to win the argument to prove they’re a good person.

    Mike

  73. 73.

    Jen

    Can someone else read this and tell me if you have the same reaction, i.e., good grief…bullshit…/rolls eyes/…WTF??!! Boxers?

    (further reaction down in my comment — jibeaux)

  74. 74.

    Jen

    Another thing- guns will be a major issue in this state.

    Well, yeah. Food is what you shoot, and clothes are what you take off the dead guy you just shot.

    I’m just kidding, but y’all need some jobs up in there.

  75. 75.

    Mary

    That PowerPoint presentation is making Edward Tufte spin in his grave, and he isn’t even dead yet.

    Presentations largely stand or fall on the quality, relevance, and integrity of the content. If your numbers are boring, then you’ve got the wrong numbers. If your words or images are not on point, making them dance in color won’t make them relevant. Audience boredom is usually a content failure, not a decoration failure.

    At a minimum, a presentation format should do no harm. Yet the PowerPoint style routinely disrupts, dominates, and trivializes content. Thus PowerPoint presentations too often resemble a school play -very loud, very slow, and very simple.

    The practical conclusions are clear. PowerPoint is a competent slide manager and projector. But rather than supplementing a presentation, it has become a substitute for it. Such misuse ignores the most important rule of speaking: Respect your audience.

    And did they have some intern hopped up on Red Bull pull this together at 3 AM? It’s not just the spurious claims, half truths, and “how I spent my summer vacation” prose styling. (Seriously, look at the last slide.) The images are laid out so badly on some slides that they’re actually blocking the text. Sloppy, shoddy, slipshod all around.

  76. 76.

    demimondian

    Hold on here, folks. Take a deep breath, and remember something really painful.

    There have been two loyal Democratic voting blocs in the past thirty years: African Americans, and poorer Southern and Appalachian whites. Yuppies, rich whites, Westerners, the rest of us? Sorry, boys and girls, but…no, not so much. Middle class and rich Southern Whites form the backbone of the modern Republican party — but those Appalachian and Southern white folks we’re happily sneering at?

    They’ve voted for our candidates. Reliably.

    So, while we can, should — and I hope, will — continue to hitch-slap Billary around for their race-baiting rhetoric, let’s not be too quick to dismiss the voter we’re making fun of. They’ve been loyal allies for thirty long years in the desert, and they do deserve better than to be tarred as racists for this.

  77. 77.

    Rick Taylor

    Atrios nails it.

    One thing I’m looking forwarded to is not being bombarded by transparently stupid arguments about how performance in a state primary has some meaningful mapping to performance in the general election. The latest is the Clinton campaign suggesting that West Virginia is an important “test” because Democrats since Wilson have only become president if they’ve manged to win there. I assume that’s true, but that’s about winning that state’s electoral college votes in the general election and not about getting primary voters to vote for you. And as Mark Penn helpfully reminds me, Jimmy Carter did not win the West Virginia primary.

    I imagine over the past month or so people in the Clinton campaign have been marveling at their ability to manipulate the freak show, to introduce stupid narratives and bogus arguments into our discourse. And they have been amazingly good at it. I’d even admire it if they actually managed to, you know, win the elections instead of just making our discourse stupider.

    I’m not sure why so many online Clinton supporters seem to be lashing out angrily at Obama supporters, instead of at the people who ran Clinton’s campaign. If they’d just done things a little bit differently in February they’d have won this.

  78. 78.

    John Cole

    And on preview: I know this is John’s place, with a pretty wide open comment section and one hell of a group of people with shared views and raw senses of humour (however you spell that word), but I may not be the only female commenter here who is uncomfortable with some of the sexualized rhetoric used about Clinton.

    I think it’s completely fair to comment on her dishonesty, her desperation, her willingness to say or do anything. But I do flinch when I see terms like “clagina”.

    Mary- Clagina is not sexualized rhetoric aimed at demeaning Hillary, it is a takeoff on the “Clenis,” which is a widely used term used to describe Bill Clinton while mocking the people who hated him irrationally for his crimes against humanity (ie Lewinsky). Calling her the Clagina is making fun of the people who just hate the Clintons unnnaturally. In fact, here is Shakes, herself a known feminist, using the term the Clenis.

    Having said that, Hillary supporters are now taking offense at anything and everything, so I would recommend people not use the term.

  79. 79.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Jen Says:

    Can someone else read this and tell me if you have the same reaction, i.e., good grief…bullshit…/rolls eyes/…WTF??!! Boxers?

    Gerson went off the rails some time ago. He’s become a very visible, and voluble, example of the panic in the neocon ranks. The flag lapel flap is a perfect example; if someone is the real article then they don’t need to advertise it – their actions and words demonstrate their patriotism. On the other hand, if you’re a phony then you cling to outward symbols. Those who go on about lapel pins are usually those whose patriotism is limited to wearing them.

  80. 80.

    Hubris

    From Jen’s link:

    But this approach always places the explainer in a position of superiority. The arrogance of the aristocrat is nothing compared to the arrogance of the academic.

    Attacks on Obama from the right and from Clinton supporters are becoming strangely reminiscent of rants against the “bourgeois intelligentsia” during the Cultural Revolution. I’m anticipating a “Criticize Obama, Criticize Confucius!” campaign any day now.

    Incidentally, once Obama secures 2,025 comments in this Sadly, No! thread, he’ll have clinched the nomination.

  81. 81.

    Pb

    Incidentally, once Obama secures 2,025 comments in this Sadly, No! thread, he’ll have clinched the nomination.

    No way, I saw on CorrenteWire that he needs at least 2,209 comments! Besides, real Americans — by which I mean working class white female voters over 65, of course — have no clue what Sadly, No! is in the first place, and that’s why their creative class e-caucuses aren’t representative and don’t count, unlike CorrenteWire.

  82. 82.

    Genine

    Some of you may disagree, and may argue that it’s your right to say any damn thing you please. I’m not interested in having a full argument about that with you because I just don’t have the time. Maybe this will become a full debate with other people stepping in. I don’t know.

    I understand what you mean, Mary. I don’t like certain words like “clagina” either. I think it detracts from the message and can be seen as divisive.

    Though I don’t worry about it too much, I totally understand where you’re coming from.

  83. 83.

    Jen

    poorer Southern and Appalachian whites.

    Do you have some stats for that? My in-laws live in Appalachia, their county votes about 70% Republican. The Democrats that are there are conservative. There is very little feasible way to convince them to vote for someone as unlike them, to put it charitably, as Obama is.

    Pennsylvania is the North. NC is in the South and has the Appalachians. And who is on the MUP and who is not? If I’m going to worry about a swing demographic of working-class white folks, I’m definitely more worried about the Rust Belters.

  84. 84.

    Jen

    “Clagina” has a very big ewww factor, for reasons I don’t really want to analyze right now. It just….does.

  85. 85.

    jake

    A president is expected to be a patriotic symbol himself, not the arbiter of patriotic symbols. He is supposed to be the face-painted superfan at every home game; to wear red, white and blue boxers on special marital occasions; to get misty-eyed during the most obscure patriotic hymns.

    I’m all for free speech and expression but if people want to think about what the President wears when he has sex I wish they’d keep it to themselves.

  86. 86.

    JGabriel

    Those fucking idiots, aka the House Republican Caucus, have just Voted Against Mother’s Day.

    Thank you, John Boehner! Democrats across the country are positively gleeful at the gift you have just handed us on a platter.

    Next up, a Republican proposal to harvest Mexican babies for soup stock.

    .

  87. 87.

    SnarkyShark

    Jen Says:

    Can someone else read this and tell me if you have the same reaction, i.e., good grief…bullshit…/rolls eyes/…WTF??!! Boxers?

    My reaction is rage, a desire for retribution, and a sene of betrayal by those who are supposed to be the watchdogs.

    But then I realize I am watching the death of the traditional media, and I feel better.

  88. 88.

    Dennis - SGMM

    A president is expected to be a patriotic symbol himself, not the arbiter of patriotic symbols. He is supposed to be the face-painted superfan at every home game; to wear red, white and blue boxers wetsuits on special marital occasions; to get misty-eyed during the most obscure patriotic hymns.

    Fixt

  89. 89.

    Jen

    if people want to think about what the President wears when he has sex I wish they’d keep it to themselves.

    I mean, 1. This is supposedly what “most Americans” think? 2. Isn’t it unpatriotic to wear flag colors on underwear? 3. Why are you wearing underwear during sex anyway? 4. Is Hillary wearing boxers under those pantsuits? It just boggles the mind.

    Onto a more serious plea, Obama seems to be sending out trial balloons regarding a million people to volunteer for his campaign in the fall. That’s a hell of a lot of people, and the kicker is it would only take 2/3 of the people who gave him money in the primary. Come closer to the general election, can we get a volunteer commitment thermometer/counter/ticker thing up in here?

  91. 91.

    John Cole

    So, while we can, should—and I hope, will—continue to hitch-slap Billary around for their race-baiting rhetoric, let’s not be too quick to dismiss the voter we’re making fun of. They’ve been loyal allies for thirty long years in the desert, and they do deserve better than to be tarred as racists for this.

    I have gone out of my way to not call West Virginians racist, and for good reason- I am a lifelong West Virginian. However, you are smoking rock if you do not think race is an issue.

    The larger issue is the nature of West Virginians, as anyone who has ever lived here can tell you- we are a very parochial, small-knit state. Unlike very few other states, everyone is related, or knows someone, or has ties to every community. It is no surprise that a Manchin is Governor. It is no surprise Arch Moore won multiple terms and his daughter, Shelley Moore-Capito, is a member of the congrsssional delegation.

    Along with being very close-knit, the history of WV is one that makes us suspicious of outsiders. Our entire state history is on of outsiders coming in, stealing our resources, and screwing us. As such, West Virginians like familiarity- and the Clinton brand is still a HUGE thing in WV. Add to it the sense that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, for whatever reason, is just one of us.

    One last thing- when Obama pushed the Frank/Kansas argument in his bitter remark, he could have been talking about WV. Gore and Kerry both lost WV in large part due to perceptions about guns.

    So it is no shock to me that Hillary is blowing out Obama here- she has culture, familiarity, branding, and, well, everything on her side. It aint solely because of race and racism, but those are factors.

    I wouldn’t live here if the state was little more than one giant Klan rally. It is not. It is a wonderful place to live with wonderful, decent, honest, good people.

  94. 94.

    Genine

    Jen Says:

    “Clagina” has a very big ewww factor, for reasons I don’t really want to analyze right now. It just….does.

    It is icky for me, too. And that’s weird… for me.

  95. 95.

    Jen

    Is it because it sounds like a vagina with a claw on it? I told you I didn’t really want to analyze it.

  96. 96.

    Jen

    Breaking News: Moms of House Republicans Reject, Denounce, their Worthless Kids, Announce They’re Voting for Democrats This Year Anyway.

    Really, I’m getting back to work now. Ho-kay.

  98. 98.

    NR

    In NC, which hasn’t gone blue since Jimmy Carter, let’s say that everyone who voted for Obama in the primary comes out to vote for him in the general, and the same is true for McCain. The Hillary voters go 10% for Obama, 85% for McCain, 5% stay home to wash their cats and sulk.

    Obama wins.

    That assumes that McCain will get less than one million votes in the state. Bush got almost two million in 2004, so I find that highly unlikely.

  100. 100.

    Dennis - SGMM

    I wouldn’t live here if the state was little more than one giant Klan rally. It is not. It is a wonderful place to live with wonderful, decent, honest, good people.

    Seconded. I was sent to WV by my company to do some training some years back. As a Californian who’d never been there I had no idea what to expect. Once the people I was working with saw that I was there to help and that I wasn’t looking down my nose at them I was accepted without reserve. They welcomed me to any number of barbecues, boat rides on the Ohio, informal musicales and church services. Great folks who’ve managed to keep their heads up and maintain a robust sense of humor despite being shafted for 200 years.

  101. 101.

    phobos

    Is it because it sounds like a vagina with a claw on it?

    Teeth, rather than claws, would be the predominate primal fear.

    How did we get on to this subject?

  102. 102.

    Jen

    That assumes that McCain will get less than one million votes in the state. Bush got almost two million in 2004, so I find that highly unlikely.

    Uh, didja miss the part where I said this was for fun and that I knew this wasn’t how the general election would work? I am aware that more than 300,000 Republicans will turn out in the general, yes, I am aware of that.

    would you prefer “Clunt”?

    No, but pass your suggestions along to McCain.

  103. 103.

    SnarkyShark

    From the Big Orange Borg

    “I spent my entire life in the two reddest states in the entire U.S. so please excuse me if I fail to discern the nuances of the arguments sent my way this evening in what appears to be an orchestrated campaign to intimidate the remaining unpledged delegates by threatening to leave the party and vote for a third Bush term if I and others like me don’t vote for Sen. Clinton,” wrote the exasperated superdelegate. “I have been uncommitted throughout this campaign because I wanted to see how the candidates performed in a variety of settings. I am proud of them both. But I am horrified by this effort to threaten votes for McCain if super delegates don’t vote for Sen. Clinton. I have received hundreds of emails from both sides – but I can say without exception that I have not received a single email from an Obama supporter that threatened a vote for McCain if I didn’t support Sen. Obama. You really ought to be ashamed.”

    So the new strategy is to tell the Supers that they should throw what i proving to be the loyal base over for a bunch of unhinged fair-weather back-stabbing traitors!

    That’ll work.

    Unhinged.

    PS could anyone tell me why html linkcode

    (a href=”site”>smart ass comment(/a) (=>

    doesn’t seem to work right in preview? does this carry over to the actual post?

  104. 104.

    crw

    See my diary on the new tactics by clinton supporters

    Seems like large swaths the Hilbots have progressed to the anger stage. We’ll see more moving to the bargaining stage soon, I’d wager (“I’ll vote for Obama if he [fill in the blank].”). Give ’em space. Most of them will come around by July at the latest, I’d bet.

  105. 105.

    Mary

    I hope this is solid.

    Democrat Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman said on Thursday he believes the Democrats will have a presidential nominee in June and that if it is not Clinton, she will campaign for rival Barack Obama. … “It’ll be over early June,” McAuliffe said. “We’ve all said we’ll be together at the end. If Hillary doesn’t win, Hillary, (former) President (Bill) Clinton, myself, we’ll be over there helping Senator Obama. And, likewise, Senator Obama will come together to help Hillary if she’s the nominee.”

  106. 106.

    John Cole

    The Armando “LOOK AT ME” campaign continues. The top post at Talk Left attacks “Balloon Juice” (he won’t say Michael D. because he wants to piss me off into paying attention to his irrelevant punk ass- I am just going to keep ignoring his victim/attention whoring) for linking to Will Wheaton. Looks like my very first comment in that post was accurate:

    Great. Because I want to spend the next 6 months being called a sexist for something someone else wrote.

    Did I do something to piss you and Will off?

    I just fucking hate Armando.

  107. 107.

    Mary

    (Oh, and thanks for the clarification, John. The history of the term now sounds familiar, and you may even have explained it to me or someone else before, but it went right over my head today.)

  108. 108.

    Dennis - SGMM

    PS could anyone tell me why html linkcode…doesn’t seem to work right in preview? does this carry over to the actual post?

    Best bet is to click on the double arrow button at the top left of the comment box to expand the tool bar and use the “Link” button to create your link.

  109. 109.

    SnarkyShark

    Did I say unhinged?

    What in the hell is going to happen to those people? They have less grounding in reality than Republicans.

    At least Republicans know they are assholes and revel in it.

    Calling them batshit crazy is giving batshit a bad name.

  110. 110.

    SnarkyShark

    I just fucking hate Armando.

    Who doesn’t?

    Hatred of Armando will be what brings the party back together.

    Thanks Dennis…you da man

  112. 112.

    SnarkyShark

    Apparently the “threaten the supers” campaign is coming from Hillary44.

    Theres a big surprise.

  114. 114.

    Josh E.

    The Armando “LOOK AT ME” campaign continues.

    Clinton may have lost, but Armando’s douchebaggery continues.

  116. 116.

    Dreggas

    Jeff Says:

    Man… it’s just not going to end:

    Cue pointing and laughing.

    I saw this last night and rolled my eyes. She claims it should be about Oregon and their “issues”. Given how she has gone on about getting moderators that ask substantive questions I would not be surprised if the ABC debate was, in fact, a setup.

  117. 117.

    John Cole

    Man… it’s just not going to end:

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/09/clinton-calls-for-debate-in-oregon/

    Cue pointing and laughing.

    Really, don’t. We are to the point that we need to slowly start walking the Hillary supporters back from the ledge and back into the fold. We need her in the race because even if she dropped out tomorrow,she would still murder him in WV and KY, and it would look bad just like it looked bad when Huckabee won states when McCain was clearly the nominee.

    Of course he won’t debate her, and should not, but we really need to stop agitating people. For the life of me, I do not know why they feel like “They are not wanted in the party” anymore or any such crazy rhetoric, because it would be absurd if Hillary had won for people to claim “Hillary does not want black people or college graduates,” but for whatever reason, they are trying to claim that Obama does not want them and they are trying to purge them.

    And when you consider that Obama is leading a 50 state voter registration drive and shooting for 1million plus volunteers, that charge is even more ridiculous.

    I think someone upthread nailed it- they have just supported Clinton for so long it is who they are. And, this has been a close race, and they felt, like she did, that it was inevitable. And now, it is not.

    I am going to stop posting about it, and focus on McCain and positive things Obama has done, and hope they come to their senses and just calm down. McCain is the target now. Not taylor Marsh and Hillaryis44.

  119. 119.

    merrinc

    It is a wonderful place to live with wonderful, decent, honest, good people.

    Stop, you’re making me homesick. But I am coming home tomorrow (first time in six years) to do my small part to lessen the HRC landslide.

    Your description of West Virginia was perfect. It’s hard to explain the political culture to someone who hasn’t lived there. My son did a National History Day project on the Mine Wars and was surprised to find that even his teachers were unaware of that ugly little bit of US history. Of course, years of stereotypes about barefooted, inbred, moonshine swillin’ hillbillies doesn’t help.

    And geesh, talk about the distrust of outsiders – remember how hard it was for Jay Rockefeller to get elected? Everyone knew Arch Moore was a dirty crook but he wasn’t some rich fella from Rhode Island or wherever.

  120. 120.

    Svensker

    montysano Says:

    This gave me chills:

    Michelle Obama introduces her husband.

    Wow. I always liked her, but day-um, she is good.

    What also gave me chills were some of the comments underneath. Why are people proud to be ignorant racist morons? Seriously. I’m thinking about getting a button that says “Egghead and Proud.” It really is time we got over this profound anti-intellectual streak in this country. I got nothing against people who aren’t educated but think for themselves. But stupid — whether ignorant or educated — is not something we need more of.

    George Bush gave us 8 years of educated stupid and look at us now.

    (P.S. As a woman, I wasn’t bothered at all by the Clagina thing, since it was so obviously based on Clenis. But if it’s gonna stop some Hillary supporters from moving to the Obama side, guess it’s worth stifling. Still, Clunt was just hilarious.)

  121. 121.

    Krista

    I am going to stop posting about it, and focus on McCain and positive things Obama has done, and hope they come to their senses and just calm down. McCain is the target now. Not taylor Marsh and Hillaryis44.

    I think that’s wise. Clinton’s supporters believed in her and genuinely believed her to be the best candidate. If you look at the entirety of that clip that was posted about Obama talking to Wolf Blitzer about Mitt Romney, you’ll notice that Obama’s being very gracious, isn’t saying that he’s won, and is acknowledging Clinton as a formidable opponent. We say that we appreciate it that Obama is treating us like adults. Let’s start acting like adults, stop with the taunting, and move on to demolishing McCain. There are still going to be some Obama supporters and some Clinton supporters who will be immature about the whole thing, but hopefully their numbers will reduce once people stop paying attention to them.

  122. 122.

    FupDuck

    Red, White, and Blue boxers? I always figure Repubs as tighty-whitey types?

    Can we use Clivage?

  124. 124.

    Genine

    Krista Says:

    I am going to stop posting about it, and focus on McCain and positive things Obama has done, and hope they come to their senses and just calm down. McCain is the target now. Not taylor Marsh and Hillaryis44.

    I think that’s wise. Clinton’s supporters believed in her and genuinely believed her to be the best candidate.

    I totally agree. A lot of her supporters are very emotionally tied to her winning and identify with her very heavily. Putting her down is putting them down. It’s not how I work, but I have to understand where others are coming frm and build a bridge. That’s what Obama is all about, which is why I support him.

    Putting down one side of a situation is never a good answer. It’s one issue I had with liberals who demonized Republicans. Sure, a lot of them (the politicians) were crooks and hypocrites, but the people supporting them aren’t necessarily evil or stupid, they just see things in a way that I don’t- and that’s good. Conservatives and progressives can learn a lot from each other. I know I’ve learned a lot from conservatives over the last year and half or so and it’s made my understanding of social issues more broad and, imo, effective. It provides a nice balance to my hippy-dippiness.

    Besides, this race has shown that we have dividers and manipulators on both sides of the aisle, the Party, the town and the family. No need to buy into their bs and feed the flames. Things can cool down now and we can all focus on moving on- together.

  125. 125.

    tBone

    Teeth, rather than claws, would be the predominate primal fear.

    Which is why it’s surprising that it took so long for someone to make a movie about it.

    I just fucking hate Armando.

    Me too. Speaking for me only, of course.

  126. 126.

    binzinerator

    I wouldn’t live here if the state was little more than one giant Klan rally. It is not. It is a wonderful place to live with wonderful, decent, honest, good people.

    Glad you ended with that, because I was starting to hear that banjo music from Deliverance playing softly in the background.

  127. 127.

    nightjar

    I am going to stop posting about it, and focus on McCain and positive things Obama has done, and hope they come to their senses and just calm down.

    As long as they throw down their verbal weapons, then there is no reason to keep fighting with them, or agitating just for the heck of it. Though I see no sign the TM, TL, Corrente’s of the blogosphere are ready to step down. In fact, it sounds to me like their planning an insurgent pol war on Obama’s candidacy. I truly hope I’m wrong, but when you read stuff like “Clueless Obamobots“, and this.

  128. 128.

    demimondian

    No, Nightjar. You don’t really understand.

    It’s time to stop. We won. It’s over. Does it really hurt us to be called clueless? Does it make us clueless? Does it make us Obamanatives? Not a bit of it.

    The hard part of winning is that, for better or for worse, it is fun to fight — that’s part of what makes this comments section a lively place. You sure don’t come here for pootie pics, right? Pottie mouths, and moving (verbal) pics in the lane, yes, and the occasional high stick, but we aren’t nice, and we’re fucking proud of that, thank you very much.

    Fine, and fine in its place — but that isn’t the place now. We don’t have to be better than them, and we don’t have to turn the other cheek, but we do have to be pragmatists. This was the warm up round, the sparring partner. OK, we’ve warmed up. Now…let’s show ’em what we’re really made of.

    Cuz, baby, if you think I can make mincemeat of a Dem…you ain’t seen nothing yet.

  129. 129.

    theturtlemoves

    Just to expand on the idea that people have an emotional investment in the Clintons, I’ve become completely convinced that Hillary is an authoritarian leader and her most ardent supporters are classical authoritarian followers. She desperately needs to lead people and they desperately need to be led. The “Yes She Can” chants in answer to Obama’s “Yes We Can” are the prime example. They don’t want any agency in their own lives. They want the Great Mother to lead them and tell them what to do. It’s this fellow’s find thesis writ large.

  130. 130.

    croatoan

    Mrs. Obama gives a great speech, looks like without any notes. I’d like to see President Bush or Senator McCain do the same.

  131. 131.

    John Cole

    I don’t care what is motivating it, I just want it to stop.

    I am gonna make sure I don’t do anything to stir up people who are already pissed off now that this is over, and intend to focus on McCain.

    I really don’t know anything about the people at Corrente, or Taylor Marsh, or Hillary is 44, and I think my feelings about Armando are pretty clear, but I really like Jeralynn Merritt. She really is one of the nicest people I have met online, and I want it all to stop.

    And there are a lot of other people who may not have been Hillary supporters who I like who are probably pretty upset right now. I know Melissa McEwan at Shakespeare’s Sister is pretty pissed about the sexism she has witnessed (some of it was weaker than others), and I just want it all to stop.

    Additionally, right now, people are pissed off and short-tempered and going to perceive slights where there were not any- witness the reaction of some to hostage post the other day. As soon as Michael posted that link to Will Wheaton, I knew exactly what was going to happen- some jackass was going to call me a sexist for probably the next 3 years.

    At any rate, I know this sounds stupid coming from me because I am such an antagonistic prick much of the time, but it really is over. Time to work to bring people back into the fold. What was driving me insane was the never-ending bullshit coming from her campaign, and now that bullshit is irrelevant. Obama has won, time to move forward. We need their votes. We need their ideas, and we need their support.

  132. 132.

    Dreggas

    theturtlemoves,

    been saying that for a while now, one thing that turns me off about the clintons’ is the “dear leader” mentality that they are meant to rule and tell us what is good for us.

  133. 133.

    nightjar

    It’s time to stop. We won. It’s over. Does it really hurt us to be called clueless? Does it make us clueless? Does it make us Obamanatives? Not a bit of it.

    I guess you didn’t get the drift of my comment. This is what I said.

    As long as they throw down their verbal weapons, then there is no reason to keep fighting with them, or agitating just for the heck of it

    In fact, it sounds to me like their planning an insurgent pol war on Obama’s candidacy. I truly hope I’m wrong, but when you read stuff like “Clueless Obamobots“, and this.

    I don’t care what they say about us. I don’t care if they vote for Mccain or not vote at all. I’m saying if they continue to undermine Obama in the GE, then maybe we should defend against it. And don’t tell me I don’t really understand. I got my opinion and your got yours, although it sounds like yours might be coming from the drunk world.

  134. 134.

    nightjar

    John Cole Says:

    I don’t care what is motivating it, I just want it to stop.

    I am gonna make sure I don’t do anything to stir up people who are already pissed off now that this is over, and intend to focus on McCain.

    OK.

  135. 135.

    SamFromUtah

    As long as they throw down their verbal weapons, then there is no reason to keep fighting with them, or agitating just for the heck of it.

    Agreed, and if the superdelegates’ response to the email harrassment is any guide, they’ll pick up pretty quickly that that kind of stuff isn’t paying off. I’m an optimist, but I expect the intra-party fighting to end very soon.

  136. 136.

    SamFromUtah

    I am gonna make sure I don’t do anything to stir up people who are already pissed off now that this is over, and intend to focus on McCain.

    Likewise, and I applaud you for it.

  137. 137.

    Jeff

    John-

    I agree, actually… and perhaps I should’ve specified more clearly…

    The media has just been brutal to Clinton since Tuesday night… Her asking for another debate when everyone is saying it’s over is likely to cue up a sort of “pointing and laughing” response from media types.

    With that said, I’ll try not to incite anything with sentiment like that now.

  138. 138.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    But I do flinch when I see terms like “clagina”.

    Me too. It’s an insult to vaginas everywhere.

  139. 139.

    theturtlemoves

    I personally don’t quite understand the whole deep personal identification with a candidate thing, period. But I also really want to harm people who refer to their favorite sports team as “we”, so you could say I’m not a joiner.

    I like Obama a lot. I think he genuinely believes what he says and I’ve given him money, have a sign in my yard, and mailed in my ballot (Oregon rules for lazy voters). If he lost, I’d be disappointed, but I wouldn’t rend my garments and threaten the people who voted for his opponent. I’m not sure you can reason with people like that. So, while I’m happy to welcome them back into the fold if they come of their own volition, I don’t think Obama supporters using nice words is going to make the minions of hillaryis44 or similar any less disturbed.

  140. 140.

    oh really

    Apparently he is+8 supers today.

    Which just proves how much more electable HRC is.

  141. 141.

    oh really

    New York Times:

    Obama Pulls Ahead of Clinton in Superdelegates

    Yes, but Clinton still has a huge lead in gall, chutzpah, and inevitability.

  142. 142.

    Conservatively Liberal

    Can we stop with the Clagina crap? Please?

    I read this and the visual that came to mind was disturbing.

    What a welcome home… ;) Back home from our trip, the bike ran great and the head gasket that I put on the wife’s Olds held up (must have done something right). Got to feed a kitty Cheetos at a rest stop in central Oregon, saw lots of dead animals on the highway, saw a semi that was blown off the road and two others that did a head-on at highway speed (1 dead, the other ???) and many other adventures that make up the average road trip.

    I have enjoyed stepping out of the political mosh pit for the last week, but now it is time to dive back in.

    Dive. Yup, right direction. ;)

  143. 143.

    Desmond

    You have to wonder about the Clinton campaign’s finances at this point. If they were already hurting for money before May 6th, how must they be doing now? Who would possibly give them money after that final nail in the coffin?

  144. 144.

    Soylent Green

    while I’m happy to welcome them back into the fold if they come of their own volition, I don’t think Obama supporters using nice words is going to make the minions of hillaryis44 or similar any less disturbed.

    I’m trying hard not to conflate the insanity on the leading Hillbot blogs with Hillary’s supporters overall. There’s not much point in reaching out with reason or kindness to people so astronomically delusional.

    That said, I hope we can stop ourselves from reflexively piling on anyone who ventures over here looking for rapprochement but clinging to their programming. They won’t make the switch overnight, and not without some gentle guidance.

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