A timely piece in Townhall about Hillary’s support among gun owners that will no doubt be cited by the pro-Hillary blogs as additional proof of her electability (as Townhall, Fox News, and the Weekly Standard have now become the go to source of record for Pro-Hillary blogs):
Senator Clinton no more deserves gun-owner votes than Lord Voldemort deserves the Muggle vote. In the Senate, she has voted in favoring of abusive lawsuits against law-abiding gun manufacturers, for banning cosmetically incorrect guns which are falsely labeled “assault weapons,” and for allowing federal funds to be used to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens after a natural disaster—as was done following Hurricane Katrina.
Her lone pro-Second Amendment vote was for a national bill allowing retired police officers, under stringent licensing conditions, to carry concealed handguns in all fifty states.
Yet Senator Clinton’s childhood in the Midwest, and her decades in Arkansas, have apparently given her the ability to project an impression of at least slight understanding of American gun culture, a culture which Obama seems to regard with a condescending detachment like that of a 19th-century Oxford anthropologist examining a tribe of Amazonian headhunters.
Thus, the Democratic race continues into June, thanks to Senator Clinton’s iron will, and the most surprising new group in her base: Democratic gun owners and their families.
People who think Hillary will carry the state of WV in the fall because of the gun issue are deluding themselves, and really forget the job that the GOP did on Al Gore over the issue of guns. I remember it well (and was thrilled WV went for Bush. How times change), and this CNN piece references it:
For the last two-thirds of the 20th century, West Virginia was a solidly Democratic state, and it still is in state politics.
West Virginia had not voted for a non-incumbent Republican for president since Herbert Hoover. It even voted for Michael Dukakis in 1988.
Then came 2000, when George W. Bush surprised everyone by winning West Virginia. How did he do it? With social issues, such as abortion, gays and — most important — guns, in a state where more than 70 percent of the voters have a gun in their households.
What you get in West Virginia is not so much Reagan Democrats as Bush Democrats.
Republicans believe that they know how to beat Obama here.
“They would likely paint him, if he’s the nominee, as a far-left liberal who is pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-civil union. That will not play well in West Virginia. Social issues register very high on the meter here,” Bass said.
It wasn’t just guns that swayed the state to Bush- Clinton fatigue, disgust over the Lewinsky affair, decades of inefficient local Democratic rule, Gore’s position on the environment and coal, the familiarity of the Bush family name, garden variety social issues, and a whole host of other issues were also at stake. Others who are so inclined can look into the wayback machine of the intertron to find more about the job done on Gore regarding guns in WV, but I can tell you the GOP did some fine and lasting work. All through out the week while phonebanling, I talked with many people, Democrats, who simply refused to vote for either Democrat because of guns. Many, in fact, were not too fond of McCain, either.
At any rate, I say that is a timely piece in Townhall, because just today, frequent Balloon Juice commenter Merrinc, who is back in the state canvassing for Obama to help keep down the Hillary winning margin on Tuesday, emailed me this:
A yard in Webster Springs, WV off Rt. 19.
Anyone who argues that Hilary is more electable in WV because of her position on guns just hasn’t been paying attention.
Pug
Hillary wants your nuts, too.
The Moar You Know
To us gun owners, it’s the same thing.
PK
WVs sound like a bunch of nutjobs!
John Cole
I live there, so there is at least one.
Dr.BDH
Anti-abortion, anti-Gay, pro-“guns.” Is that the McCain ticket? ‘Cause if it is, bye-bye Republicans. I don’t dislike Hillary, but she’s seriously fucked if she thinks the road to the White House is paved with imitations of the McCain-Gomer ticket. Lots of Americans like to hunt. Some like to shoot skeet. Some like to target practice. But only a small fraction “like guns.” Most don’t care that much about gays, and almost all want abortion available when needed. Weirdos “like guns.” Weirdos voted against Gore. The MAJORITY of Americans voted for him. Lest we forget.
Bobzim
Webster Springs is in …..Webster County.
I always found it ironic that Ol Moses held a flintlock rifle over his head during his “…Cold, Dead Fingers” speech in Beckley in 2000. I’m prety sure nobody gives a shit about those. Seems like a truthful gun-nut would not be ashamed to hold up a Chinese AK during such Goose Bump Moments.
Genine
Nutjobs are like bugs: for every one you see, there are 300 more.
So, you’re not alone!
Bobzim
But speaking of Nicholas County…guess where Mel Gibson’s dad lives?
plus C
Eh, just hand her a rifle, no round in the chamber, safety on, then see how it takes for her to look down the barrel to find out what’s going on.
I wonder if they make pantsuits in blaze orange?
Notorious P.A.T.
John, I stopped in WV once. I was told not to go out by myself at night because roving bands of drunken redneck teens in pickups like to beat up lone strangers. I’ve always wondered if that’s true.
Electability, shmectability. She is planning on jobbing the primary system, so why shouldn’t I think she’s planning to do the same in the general?
Bobzim
Where do you think we get our gun money?
Delia
Um, John. You’re not saying that West Virginians cling to their religion and guns, are you? Next you’ll be saying they’re bitter.
Dave_Violence
Have you folks seen this?
http://www.hillarynutcracker.com/
John Cole
I don’t know how many of you saw it, but the SNL opening skit was brutal.
Yes, everyone has. That is why it is so laughable when Hillary claims she has been vetted. The GOP will break that crap out and more on her. They have paid no attention to her because they want her to win the nomination.
The Grand Panjandrum
Democrats have learned their lesson on the gun issue. As the West trends Blue with more Democrats out here being gun owners, including politicians, you won’t find much call for restricitve gun control laws. Its not really an issue here because most of know our Congressional delegation (D’s & R’s) would never support restricitve legislation.
I love to shoot and have a nice little collection. Owning two or three firearms is common and I know many people who own a half dozen firearms. (Jeez, I built a pracitce range on my property so I wouldn’t have to drive into the city to practice.)
I’m not sure what the answer is for places like WV, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of the recent arguments about guns, gays, and god being set aside. The very people who employed those arguments have now been largely discredited. Of course, places like KY and WV have been in recession for a very long time so I don’t know if Obama’s economic message will play well.
John Cole
A commenter in another thread was making the point that the economy in WV is not ad bad as usual because of the record price of coal. I have no data to back that up (I can back up the price of coal, but not the overall economy).
The Grand Panjandrum
My understanding is that those higher coal prices have not translated into more and higher paying jobs but I can’t cite anything written.
Of course, didn’t ol’Jack Whitaker try to personally enrich every stripper in the state?
rob!
it seems like the SNL writers decide to forgo laughs with the Hillary sketch, in lieu of just tearing her a new one.
fine with me.
fahey
Can’t wait to see Talkleft write about that SNL skit.
Holly shit that was vicious, it even made me feel sorry for her.
John Cole
It was brutal. I can’t wait for the Hillary blogs to get wind of it and lament the passing of the Fox Half Hour News Hour.
Because you know they will. In fact, I bet they manage to blame the SNL skit on Obama, rather than Hillary.
Conservatively Liberal
Some people are too hung upon guns. Guns don’t kill, people do. If they did not have access to a gun, a determined killer will find another weapon to fulfill the requirement. Either way, whoever gets murdered is just as dead with any other weapon as they are with a gun. Deliberately kill someone with a car? Or a knife? Or a rope? Or your bare hands? Should we outlaw those weapons too?
Guns get singled out only because the right has found that the issue is one that their followers will jump on, and so will many Democrats and independents. The left has let the right define their positions on guns, but I think that is changing. While there are extremists on both sides screaming “control!” and “no control!”, most people in the middle can deal with reasonable and responsible gun control measures.
merrinc
Well, the green road sign simply stated Webster Springs not Webster Springs —> or Webster Springs x miles or whatever so I just assumed. Yeah, yeah, I know about assuming.
The Hillary warning sign was probably about 20 feet away from a billboard featuring firefighters raising the American flag in the WTC rubble. It wasn’t only the juxtaposition of those two things that was creepy; it was seeing them set against the backdrop of such heartstopping natural beauty. A few hundred yards further up, natural springs were trickling down the hillside.
PanAmerican
Automation and productivity gains have radically changed steel and coal employment numbers. An integrated mill only needs 10% of the workforce it used back in the glory days of the ’50’s.
WV like the rest of Appalachia has emptied out as a result. Clinton is making the case she can win an aging and shrinking demographic.
John Cole
There is my correspondent. Any news from downstate?
myiq2xu
They’re issuing guns in WV? Do you have to be a resident to get one?
Rick Taylor
They’re already talking about it on Talk Left. They’re not happy.
It’s not on for another two hours where I live, so I’ll have to wait.
John Cole
When I watched it, the first thing I thought was that Armando might shoot his tv.
As a side note, you really have to stop going there so much Rick. We need to walk all these guys back from the ledge, we really do. I don’t read them right now because I know I will be unable to not respond to shit, and I don’t want to egg stuff on. I only check when I see a trackback.
merrinc
I knew the Clarksburg office would be smaller than Charlotte but I was a little surprised to find only ONE person staffing it. This is Julie’s fourth state with the campaign (NV, TX, PA). She looks understandably exhausted but brightened considerably when I told her I had worked with the campaign in NC and wanted me to start canvassing right away. I took a packet and told her I’d see what happened after I found my hotel room. She said canvassing had been sometimes good, sometimes brutal and that they were expecting to lose by very large margins on Tuesday.
I did not canvass on Saturday because by the time I found my hotel, it was after 6 and I was not in the mood to make nice with people. Have you noticed that Google Maps has some serious deficiencies in their knowledge of WV roads? The route they gave me to my hotel reminded me of that Stephen King short story “Mrs. Todd’s Shortcut.”
I did cruise around Fairmont and was reminded that WV must be the origin of the saying about all politics being local. I saw lots of signage for sheriff and magistrate, very little for either Obama or Hillary. But I was pleasantly surprised at the places where I did see Obama signs. Unless things have changed, Fairmont is still basically segregated — AAs always lived in one section on the West Side — and I saw signage on the East Side.
The Other Steve
Illinois has a lot of coal, and used to be a major producer. But I think production has slagged off in recent years. But you look at the map, and it covers most of the state.
Obama has a record of supporting coal programs, such as gasification and such, in large part because he’s from Illinois. What’s interesting is that I remember the Clinton supporters trying to use this against Obama. But then that was in California or Minnesota here… not in a state which depends a lot on coal. you know, the message varies day to day.
Mary
I just caught SNL on the BC broadcast. Wow, that really was brutal.
As much as I hate the way Clinton has been campaigning, I had to wonder what she thought as she watched it. Just a few weeks ago, she appeared on the show beside Amy Poehler, who seemed thrilled to be there with her. And now this. Put not your faith in actors, indeed …
… or, says my paranoid side, was this a way to whip up some sympathy?
I obviously need to get some sleep. Night, all.
John Cole
I don’t think people fully recognize how over the line a lot of people felt the now infamous Clinton “hard-working white voters” line was last week- that to many was more brazen than Nixon. Sebastian Holsclaw at ObWi and others have made the point that if a Republican had said that, it would have knocked them out of the race. That the comment came multiple times, including in on the record conference calls immediately after Tuesday’s election, and just so-happened to come right after the last primary with a large black population and just before WV and KY has a lot of people who, even up until recently, were willing to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt, pissed beyond belief.
Read the columnists since that remark- Bob herbert’s super catty piece about the Clinton’s leaving the WH, dredging up all the old bullshit from the 90’s. Eugene Robinson was pissed. Frank Rich and MoDo both savage her tomorrow in the NY Times. Even Charlie Rangel stated he can not believe she would say somethign that stupid when he was given the quote, and he has been an unwavering Hillary super delegate.
Again, depending on where you stand, your opinion of her comments may vary- her supporters will tell you she was just reciting the facts. However, if you look at what has happened since she made those remarks and her campaign trotted that stuff out, the elites, the super delegates, and the media are now pretty much turning against her. For many, that was a “Hillary is dead to me” moment for a lot of people.
Mary
(So I lied. Had to load the dishwasher and checked in one last time before bed.)
I definitely believe that Clinton lost a hell of a lot of people with that ugly, shameless “white people like me” theme, and she fully deserved to do so.
It’s just that I remember how obviously proud and gleeful she was that SNL was apparently on her side, to the point that she made reference to the “bitch is the new black” skit during that debate. I just felt a pang of sympathy for her — yeah, even after all her crap. I’m a wuss, that’s all.
reid
For those of us that missed the SNL hoo-hah, can we either get a link to a video or some better description? It’s a bit too tantalizing as-is.
myiq2xu
You mean zombie terminator Hillary?
I mean really, WTF? Y’all have been calling her a racist for months now. Be careful what you wish for.
/snark
Anyone who thinks Hillary is a racist or is running a racist campaign is a brain-dead idiot who’s OD’d on kool-aid.
daniel rotter
Bill Clinton won West Virginia both in 1992 and 1996 and he was probably the most pro-gun control president the United States has ever had. Heck, even Dukakis, not exactly a gun-control opponent, won W.V in 1988.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
For me there have been three turning points very recently:
– Her nuke Iran if they attack Israel comment during the Philly debate was my “holy shite, she will say literally anything if it scrapes up a few votes” moment.
– Her gas tax pander was my “in my gut I thought she would make a lousy president from a policy standpoint but now I have empirical proof” moment.
– Her “hard working white voters” comment was my “we’ve now reached Nixonian levels of evil” moment.
I will never vote for her now. Never. Not for any office, against any opposition. The-other-party-is-worse only goes so far, our first responsibility in a partisan two-party system is not to screw everyone into making bad choices by offering up evil from within our own ranks. As far as I’m concerned, Hillary has jumped that shark with her most recent comments on race.
I’m not going to slag on her supporters – everyone has their own very complex reasons for making choices, and I’m not going to set myself up to judge other people – they have their own factors to juggle and balances to keep which are different from mine, but I know when I’ve reached a line I’m not willing to cross, and baby we are so there.
John Cole
Not to be too snide, but it was scathing enough that I would bet the farm you will find multiple links and a full memeorandum blog-swarm tomorrow from the Hillary bloggers. As we speak, they are probably completing the final step into total wingnuttia and contacting Brent Bozell because they are pissed about the
James Brolin portrayal of Reaganportrayal of Hillary and want to organize a boycott of NBC.I wish I were kidding, but I am almost sure that is what will happen. Remember, you are talking to someone who went down the rabbit hole for a few years myself. I recognize the behavior.
John Cole
I would like to add, I hope I am wrong and they don’t do that, because if they are that far gone it is going to be a long, long election year. They may not snap out of it for several years.
reid
John, consider me further tantalized! What SNL giveth, SNL taketh away apparently.
myiq2xu
Unlike the Precious and his fanatical cult followers, Hillary and her supporters have a sense of humor.
We’re used to our candidate being bashed, it doesn’t cause us to hyperventilate and clutch our pearls.
Fuck, I don’t even own any pearls.
Turbulence
You can watch the video here. All I can say is…ouch. That’s going to leave a mark.
protected static
You wouldn’t know that from the evidence at hand. Oh, wait… That would require dealing with, um, reality.
John Cole
That is not the right one.
Conservatively Liberal
Well, I can say that they are starting to complain about the SNL skit at Hillaryis44, but no hyperventilating (yet). I have not seen it, so I am curious as to why it is a ‘disgrace’ (as per a Hillaryis44 member). But I can report that they are in love with an article by a writer at Lyndon LaRouche’s EIR site.
First they shower Faux Nooz with praise, and then they thrive off of ‘good news’ from any right wing feeding trough. Now they are loving themselves some LaRouche.
Her more rabid supporters are foaming at the mouth now, and it ain’t pretty.
dwightkschrute
Oh John by not going to TL not only do you miss heads exploding left and right, but also the fantastic irony of seeing one of their regular commentors repeatedly confuse Tracy Morgan for Chris Rock. Ah nothing like the crazed rantings of cranky old white women.
myiq2xu
Hillaryis44 is a spoof site popular with GOP ratfuckers and Obama trolls.
I don’t know of any real Hillary supporters who go there. I’ve never been to that site and they don’t get any more die-hard than me.
myiq2xu
Okay, I just saw the SNL opening here on the left coast.
What’s the big deal?
It seemed to me to be Colbert-style satire.
Oh, wait, that’s why y’all didn’t get it. Too intelligent for ya.
Conservatively Liberal
Nice try, but it is not a spoof site. It is as real as it gets, although I have no doubt that there are some right wing trolls having their fun there. Many posters there participate at MyDD and TalkLeft, among other ‘progressive’ sites. They raise money for Hillary, using her images and campaign information, they phonebank and they are out working the voters in their areas.
Dismiss them all you wish, but like it or not, they are real.
myiq2xu
So sayeth the GOP ratfuck troll
dwightkschrute
Ummm miq2xu then you might want take your big brain and go explain it to the Hillary sycophants over at Talk Left, they’re frothing at the mouth about it.
myiq2xu
Oh, SNL had the “Magruber” skit about anal lube as an homage to ConservativelyLiberal!
myiq2xu
Funny, I was just there, I didn’t see any of that. Are you sure you weren’t looking in a mirror?
BTW – That’s not “froth” around your mouth
Conservatively Liberal
You ought to get your teeth wired for a garage remote. Then you can fold them back when you need to gum a goat.
Jess
Kevin Drum makes a good point, as usual:
Hillary is really not the enemy–she’s just doing a very good imitation of one. As JC has pointed out in his lucid moments, before the CDS fever overtakes him again, Hillary has plenty of admirable qualities and is still far better than what the Republicans are offering. Even with this “hardworking white voters” bit of insanity. I think she’s just lost it temporarily, and her better angels will reassert themselves as things start to cool down.
Its time for us to try to cool down, too, and focus on the big picture: first, we need to beat McCain, and second, do our best to reunite this country so we can get something accomplished. Or haven’t y’all been listening to the MUP?
dwightkschrute
Wow I suppose it shouldn’t be surprising for a Clinton supporter to have an alternate reality. Here’s the deal, you say
and on TL’S top story, entitled “SNL a Hatchet Job Tonight?”, the very first line of Jeralyn’s post being
but hey maybe you were distracted by sniper fire while reading the story. Oh and once we get to the comments we find Lorne Michaels email address being distributed to encourage sending in complaints, followed by post after post of commenters upset about the skit.
Seriously, you’re not doing yourself any favors. Anyone that takes a look at your post and then goes over to TL will realize, after about ummm I’d say 45 seconds, that you’re talking out of your ass.
Sirkowski
Wait, is Lyndon Larouche supporting Hillary??? LOL The proof that you need to be crazy to support her.
cbear
Don’t have any pearls???
What did you do with all the ones I gave you when we were in the joint together, buddy?
Don’t you remember telling me that my pearls were the bestest ever?
This is really hurtful, myiq.
Ninerdave
RE: SNL…ouch!! Question. When did SNL become funny again? I’ve been watching since the opening sketch and it’s pretty good. I haven’t watched in a few years
Ninerdave
gee Myiq talking out of his ass? Stop it! No way!! I’ve used Cleek’s filter for two people he’s one of them.
myiq2xu
I gave you all the pearl necklaces buddy!
What the fuck are you and Dennis doing hanging out with these pussified Deliverance wannabees?
Oh, wait, SASQ
Make ’em squeal like pigs buddy!
myiq2xu
Oh, cbear:
Avoid McCain bitch, that con-job fake liberal.
Word is he’s got some anal goat VD. The boys at Pelican Bay told me.
You never like transsexuals anyway
cbear
You shore do have a purty mouf.
WTF? Who is “McCain bitch”?
Jeebus myiq, are you as toasted as I am? I just got in from making the rounds at half the nightclubs in Daytona Beach. Wheeee!
myiq2xu
“Ninerdave’s” alias always reminds me of a joke:
Q: What do you call two Raider fans having sex?
A: Conjugal visit
Q: What do you call two Niner fans having sex?
A: Sodomy
cbear
Oh shit, don’t get me started:
Why do Canadians love to do it doggy-style?
So they can both watch the hockey game.
(sorry Krista, its all myiq’s fault)
myiq2xu
I heerd it tweekers but that works.
myiq2xu
Didja hear they’re turning 3-Rivers stadium into a battered women’s shelter?
Cuz the Steelers don’t beat nobody.
myiq2xu
Okay, it’s lights out here at Club Fed.
See ya cbear!
cbear
So myiq, what do you make of this Clinton vs Obama dustup? I’m becoming a trifle bored with the whole afair myself.
What are your thoughts?
dslak
No, that’s affirming the consequent. Larouche’s support might however show that being crazy is a sufficient reason to support Hillary. I thought Larouche would be more of a Mike Gravel guy.
cbear
cbear +10. over and out.
Conservatively Liberal
myiq2xuGoatBoy thinks he can rustle up some fresh goats at BJ, that is why he hangs out here when he is not trolling the local farms for some fresh meat. He hasn’t figured out that BJ does not mean what he thinks it does in this case. Even his three wives had to call it quits with him when he kept bleating like a goat during sex. I would askmyiq2xuGoatBoy if he was the pitcher or the catcher with the goats, but I am sure that he is quite good at both jobs.Personally, I could care less what
myiq2xuGoatBoy likes to stick it in, that is between him and his mortician as far as I am concerned. But he insists on coming over here and talk about the rimjob he gave his latest goat, and how upset he is that the goats won’t give him a reach around.What a frustrating life. It doesn’t help that his Viagra gives him full-body rigor mortis. Sad.
Bob
Back to the world without goats for a sec, just wanted to ask a question.
As Hills is banking on a massive win 80-20 or 70-30 to prove her ‘white vote’ claim, if Obama does manage to keep her within a 10point win, would that then be the death blow for Hills or is a win still a win?
Or are there secondary goalposts ?
Conservatively Liberal
With Hillary, there are goalposts within goalposts. She is not out until she decides to get out. Nobody defines a win or loss for Hillary except Hillary.
Her ‘white vote’ claim is pretty ridiculous considering that Obama would not be where he is now if not for people of ALL races in our country. Hillary has this fixation about how white poor people will not vote for Obama, but I have seen more than enough evidence to the contrary. Idaho is about as white as it gets, and how did Obama do there? Pretty damn good, if I recall correctly.
But that does not fit their narrative, so it is ignored.
Bob UK
well its certainly true that the rules are so changeable in that camp, I’m surprised anyone knows up from down anymore.
Watched a great sketch about who is an eligable voter according to Clintons differing rules a few days ago, from one of the links posted here. Wish i had bookmarked it, it was brilliant.
t jasper parnell
SNL from last night here
Totoro
As compared to Obama who wants to pursue universal nuclear disarmament, she’s looking downright reasonable. Perhaps not as good as McCain but as it is very likely that a democrat will be our next president, anyone who wants to protect their Constitutional right to bear arms for the next four years would be a fool not to vote for her.
Totoro
A fair number of republicans voted for Obama early on giving him his lead. Somebody better be in possession of some REALLY incriminating stuff and had better have the means to bring it to the public’s attention.
Screwing with the other party’s primary isn’t very smart when your guy the last time around is sitting at 71% disapproval.
wvng
John, I’m sure you are right. Either Dem will get crushed in the fall by the NRA and anti-abortion machines. I’ve watched them roll it out in one election after the next. Even concerns – strike that, make that pure cold fear – about the future won’t override the guns issue.
And I hope to be proven wrong on this, because it is striking how worried many people in my neck of WV (Eastern Panhandle) are about the future. The Dems don’t have clear solutions, but at least they plan to try. The Rethugs just want to line their pockets while they still can.
demimondian
Ironically, WV genuinely doesn’t matter. If he does better than expected (he won’t), then it will be shrugged off as “Clinton supporters were discouraged by the negative press, and stayed home.” If he does worse than expected (hard to imagine), then it will be shrugged off as “He showed up, what, once?” If he does as expected, it will be shrugged off as “Well, yes. So?”
No matter what the reason, the result gets shrugged off.
demi “ex-mathematician in real life” mondian
Rick Taylor
It might make a difference for her attempt to get a “popular vote” win. Here “popular vote” is one that is defined to ignore caucus states while giving her the votes from the unsanctioned primaries in Michigan and Florida (and giving Obama no votes from Michigan). If that happens, she and or her supporters might win that she ought to get the nomination on that basis. I don’t have a sense how the numbers work out though.
Birdzilla
Like KERRY these demacrooks will say anything to get elected they are all liars and cheats
John S.
Anatomy of a blogwhore:
15/77 comments by myiq in which he says absolutely nothing. Without his “contribution”, this thread would have been 20% lighter.
Pay attention to me!
TR
Looks like a Hillary partisan hacked into the NBC website to block their official video clip of the sketch, but it’s available in a grainier version on Youtube here.
Brutal.
Notorious P.A.T.
Yeah, just the other day I heard about a guy killed in a drive-by hanging. And there was this kid who found his dad’s baseball bat, and accidentally clubbed himself to death.
Since guns are no different than any other weapon, I suggest we save money by equipping our soldiers and Marines with swords instead of rifles.
TR
I just browsed through the comments at Talk Left, and … wow. That place is just twelve kinds of crazy.
Some are insisting that the sketch was really an attempt to mock how others are portraying Hillary Clinton, not her. And some are rising up in anger that SNL has now abandoned her cause — positing everything from a formal memo from GE headquarters to slow her down before the all-important West Virginia primary, to a belief that they’re just trying to shamelessly cater to the youth demographic (abandoning the traditional senior market that SNL caters to?), and on and on.
Just, wow.
demimondian
I know that Obama is pushing very hard to get out the vote in Oregon over the next couple weeks — for instance, I’ve been getting a stream of emails urging me to go spend some shoe leather in eastern Oregon, and I think the college student actually did spend a couple of days down there this weekend. I think that his campaign strategy on that score is to keep up the counter-punching: you get Ohio, I get NC, you take WV and KY, I take Oregon, and eventually, you just can’t take the popular vote, even in the final states. That, I think, is why he’s planing on declaring on 2008.05.20 — that’ll be the day when he can make the claim of the controlling fraction of the popular vote.
Notorious P.A.T.
This might deserve its own thread. How do we try and reason with these people? If you try to tell them something that differs from their worldview even one iota, they ban you. They don’t even seem to want to hear about what a bad guy John McCain is.
Notorious P.A.T.
PS–I just looked at TalkLeft. These people really do lack critical thinking capacity.
Dave_Violence
West Virginia is a democratic state because the democrats have been very, very good to WVa -one democrat in particular: name of Byrd. And he won’t stop being good to his state until they pry it from his cold, dead hands.
Notorious P.A.T.
Anyone who suggests that race is a factor in the South is a horrible person, because it means they think everyone
who votes for Hillary is a racist. And because they think there is only racism in the South. QED, racism has nothing to do with elections in the South.
How dare anyone suggest that people would vote against someone on a discriminatory basis? By the way, Hillary has lost millions of votes because of sexism. It’s so obvious.
TR
Seriously. I simply don’t understand how they see the world. While I don’t agree with the Republicans on anything, I can actually discern the connection between what they believe and who they support.
But the shit the Clinton cultists are projecting onto Obama and investing in Hillary is just bizarre. There’s barely a hair’s difference between them on policy matters, but they’ve created this image of him as the Anti-Christ. I don’t know if you realized this, but Obama’s a sleeper agent for the same corporatist oligarchy-conspiracy that pushed us into war and sold us George W. Bush, for instance.
It’s in Revelations, people!!!!
John Cole
Speaking of Ohio, the numbers for Hillary got revised down just a few days ago. Hillary had been winning by 10% or so, and now is winning by 8% due to counting absentee ballots. Not that big of a deal, but it does give him more of a buffer in the popular vote and will more than likely offset much of the vote differential in WV.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
When you’ve lost even SNL, the party’s over.
But its just another example of the Vast MSM Conspiracy coddling Obama.
Rick Taylor
It looks like the SNL site has been fixed. I don’t know if it was a “Hillary partisan” who hacked it in the first place; it was like that last night before the video went up, and the pictures thrown up were obscene. You need to sit through an ad to see it at the official site.
Ridge
As an Obama supporter in southern WV, I have heard 3 times the meme that he is the prophesied “anti-Christ”. Silver tounge and all.
While I expected some racist attitudes, this type of Revelations nonsense surprises me. Yes, even here in snake church country, tying Obama to End Times confuses me. W and purposeful War in the MidEast isn’t enough? Maybe they see O will stop the wars and the Rapture won’t happen?
I don’t know. Anyway, Hillary will win the primary but Obama could do some good doing a JFK style trip during the General into Appalachia.
R
Notorious P.A.T.
We might have to create a whole new website. DemocraticUnity08.com or something. Then we could invite representatives from the pro-Clinton camp over to iron out our differences. That is, if they are willing to visit a site where people who don’t kiss Hillary’s ring aren’t immediately banned.
Mission one would be educating them about John McCain. A lot of them seem to think he is a good guy, someone they can vote for in November and have a clear conscience.
demimondian
You don’t.
You can’t win that argument, and you shouldn’t even try. Instead, change the subject, and remind them what they were really fighting for. Clinton’s supporters want to preserve _Roe_, and to make sure that Americans can get health care, and to end the war in Iraq, to fix the economy, to protect consumers…to fix the mess the *Republicans* have made of Washington. At the end of the day, just as we’d have gladly worked towards those ends, they’ll work towards the same ends.
It isn’t necessary that they stop hating us to make that happen — what is important is that once it does happen, they’ll eventually remember that they really don’t need to hate us any more, if we give them the chance.
Al Giordano put it kind of nicely earlier this week when he was talking about us Obamabots, for whom the fifth stage of grief, acceptance, consists of focusing on the general. That works both ways.
We can count on
Dave_Violence
oops…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTL4lec5H50
w vincentz
Obama recently stated that the “Keating Five” and all other previous associations are now fair game. This could become very interesting.
Davis X. Machina
15/77 comments by myiq in which he says absolutely nothing. Without his “contribution”, this thread would have been 20% lighter.
What, you don’t like pie? He’s single-handedly responsible for a veritable plethora of the tasty treats.
Davis X. Machina
A cherished dream of Reagan, and a goal every American president since Kennedy was, or is bound to pursue because we’re signatories of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
w vincentz
Davis X,
To me, the key non-signatory in the link you provided is one country…Israel. Don’t expect that fact to change despite Obama’s best efforts.
John Cole
About that Ohio vote I was talking about earlier.
TR
Well, I don’t know that either. but seeing how the only video thus blocked was the one mocking Hillary, I think it’s safe to assume it was blocked by someone who doesn’t like mocking of Hillary, and ergo, a Hillary partisan.
Redleg
Typical right-wing fear mongering. Next we’ll hear that Obama wants to take Bibles away from the god-fearing people of _____. It never fucking ends with these right-wing morons- they concoct a scarey tale, the tale gets retold ad nauseum, and pretty soon the original tale becomes conventional wisdom for the rubes.
Rick Taylor
Last night when I went to the site and clicked on a video I got an even worse graphic, and that was before the video in question was put up. This morning, I tried clicking on other videos to see if they were hacked as well, but by the time I did, I discovered they had all been fixed. I was tired last night so I might have got it wrong.
Justin
I question your premise, John. Hillary has had everything thrown at her that could possibly be, and she’s still neck and neck with Obama, and poised to win against McCain. Obama is, whatever his promise, a newcomer who is just beginning to have the skeletons pulled out of his closet. Of course Wright and Michelle have not damaged his support among AA’s, because what he said is not uncommon in black churches, ad they think he’s a truth teller (in an important way, he is). It’s not racist to observe that, and it isn’t stereotyping. The fact that some AA churches have their own culture and it happens to be linked to their history as a people as they see it — that is not ‘racist.’ I hate to have to argue from this side of things, but so many have lost their bearings. Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton — who are the last persons in the world who could honestly be accused of racism, I don’t care what you say — are not the fount of racism in this country and shooting them down is like shooting yourself in the foot, getting rid of a potential ally.
You’re sticking your head in the sand with regard to Obama in the general election. People in WV and KY really have been asking why Michelle Obama was never proud of her country before — imagine how you would have reacted volcanically before you ‘came over to our side.’ And if you believe that there is so much racism out there, then you must acknowledge the fact that a lot of people feel like Obama himself has ‘racialized’ the campaign by referring to himself as ‘postracial’ (was Colin powell postracial? condi?) and his supporters constantly accusing people of racism, and because of the unfortunate but true fact that many AA’s lined up in support because they think he can win instead of because he is with them on the issues (he makes very few commitments). I hate it, I really do, but it’s inflaming racial tribalism among whites and that can not be a good thing.
I know someone will accuse me of being a GOP troll, and that someone will pick apart what I’ve said to prove that I’m an idiot or a racist, but this is a matter of serious concern and I wish you would take it more seriously instead of engaging in endless snark and Hillary hatred. Someone needs to say it: the lot of you do not know Hillary and have divined your mind-reading interpretation of who she is in the same way the Village does — by fitting events to a preconceived narrative that comes straight out of the tabloids (and eventually the press itself).
Justin
Basically John, as a liberal myself, it seems like the realization that not all Dems are DFH’s (and that many supposedly DFH’s had good ideas) has made you forget about liberal excess. Remember: being over-sensitive to race before got us Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, because the Republicans accused us of racism in opposing him and it worked.
Rick Taylor
Justin wrote:
We’re quite aware of Obama’s faults and challenges; we’ve been watching this election closely. But as John was pointing out, it’s not like Hillary has no negatives of her own, she’s one of the most polarizing Democrats there are. Democratic politicians in Red States are in trouble with her at the top of the ticket, because she energizes the right wing of the party more than just about anyone else we have. The GOP is holding their fire on Hillary for now, because they can see she’s not likely to get the nomination and a fractious Democratic primary helps them (they’d be holding their fire on Obama if he was in second place; it’s nothing personal), But if she were the nominee, that would quickly come to an end. Honestly, the fact that you’d accuse us of sticking our head in the sand regarding Obama’s potential negatives given Hillary Clinton’s history is ironic.
On top of that, there is no such thing as a perfect politician; any nominee is going to make gaffes, have skeletons in their closet, etc. Even a veteran like Kerry was attacked based on his military service. So the question isn’t who has nothing in their closet; the question is, who knows how to respond when they’re attacked or when they make a mistake. When the primaries started, I thought it was Hillary; I figured after the years she’d been through standing up to the right wing extremists, she’d know better than anyone how to take a punch, and return it. But I was wrong. I was completely wrong. Obama has been hit by a lot of things: Wright, bitter-gate, flag pin gate, and the thing is, he always responds, he always fights back. Maybe not perfectly, but he never lets it go by, and that’s how he’s been able to weather the storms of the election so far.
Now what about Hillary Clinton? A few days ago, she made that hard working white voter gaffe, easily as bad if not worse than Obama’s bitter-gate. She horrified a number of people, including party elders and some in the press. So what has she done to address it? I haven’t seen her do a thing, she’s just soldiering on.
Even earlier in the campaign, when she and Bill Clinton made a few tone deaf remarks about race. I thought they got a raw deal for that at the time, I thought people over-reacted (just as others over-reacted to bitter-gate). But then why didn’t she respond? Where was her address on race? Why didn’t she make some sort of speech that left no doubt where she stood? The Clinton campaign just settled for grumbling about playing the race card and look where they are now; she’s getting on the order of 10% of the African American vote. It didn’t have to be that way, she didn’t have to just lie down. That sort of performance doesn’t give me any confidence in her for the general election, especially since her more recent remarks have made matters even worse.
No, that’s not the case. No one here has claimed mind reading powers, we’ve come to our conclusions by watching what she’s said and what she’s done. I didn’t go into this election hating Hillary; i respected her. I voted for her in the primaries despite her vote on the AUMF, because I was frustrated with Obama’s unity spiel, and impressed with how Hillary was handling herself then. It’s watching what she’s said and done since then (a little of which I’ve written up above) that have convinced me I made a mistake, not some claim to mind reading powers. Now we may be deluded, you may disagree with our interpretation of events, but people here have laid out what’s troubled us in detail, so it’s not right to tell us we think we’re mind readers when it just isn’t so