On display here:
Just talked to a 55-year-old Columbus, Ohio resident named Cynthia Ruccia, a spokesperson and organizer for a group calling itself “Clinton Supporters Count Too.” She said the group — numbering in the hundreds, and organized in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Michigan — stands ready to boycott the Democratic Party if Clinton doesn’t win the nomination, and will work against superdelegates who support Obama over Clinton as a means of registering their displeasure with the party.
“We have a plan to campaign against the Democratic nominee,” the group said in a press release Thursday. “We have the (wo)manpower and the money to make our threat real. And there are millions of supporters who will back us up in the swing states. If you don’t listen to our voice now, you will hear from us later.”
Let’s put aside the tone deaf “BLACK GUYS HAVE IT SO EASY” aspect of this idiocy and instead focus on two words: John McCain. Focus. John McCain.
Christ, these people are stupid, even if they only number in “the hundreds.” Maybe they are just in the anger stage, and this will taper off in time for the general election. Regardless, I was a late supporter of Obama’s, deciding to support him in early February. However, had I known it was this easy to distract Hillary supporters, I would have just re-released the Real Gilligan’s Island pie-fight commercials, distracted the Clinton base, and Obama would have sealed up the nomination by mid-March.
I will say it again, folks- JOHN MCCAIN.
As a side note, if you look at the states these folks claim to be organizing in, I would bet any amount of money this is a rat fuck.
This is the funny part.
They’re going on O’Reilly to make their point. No word yet on whether they have their loofa guards at the ready.
Yes, it’s stupid and yes, it’s a waste of someone’s time and money. However, you once described yourself as a “passionate” Obama supporter. I would assume that they care about Hillary’s candidacy just as much as you care about Obama’s. If your candidate was the one that lost, as much as you invested in this race, how would you feel? Try to cut them some slack. No matter what they do, it won’t change anything – your man will win. I think they will come around, with Hillary’s help, by the time of the convention, and then everyone can join together and back the democratic candidate. Rubbing people’s face in it certainly won’t go very far in healing the wounds, as you yourself have said. You can afford to be magnanimous in your victory.
sure it’s a ratfuck. I can’t say this enough – support McCain and you are supporting more SC justices like Alito and Roberts and Scalia. If you care about reproductive rights and voting rights and civil rights, you vote for the Democratic nominee whether it’s Obama or Hillary. We’re at a tipping point; one more far-right SC justice – let alone 2, which the next president will surely be appointing – will lock in damage which will take generations to reverse; you don’t change SC precedents like Congress can change laws.
This is the kind of tantrum I’d expect if we were about to nominate Joe Lieberman.
My sense is these are folks have been in the anger stage most of their lives. Although, I haven’t heard of a stupid stage of grief, but maybe one should be added.
I’d feel like it’s about goddamned time we end the circular firing squad and actually imitate one of the few good things the Republicans do – when the candidate has been chosen, they shut the fuck up and back them.
They claim that Obama and the DNC as well as the dem party are all Sexist since Hillary isn’t winning. Sorry but that’s gone beyond being “Passionate supporter” and straight into wing-nut “You Hate ‘Merikka if you don’t support my view” territory.
The way I write sometimes looks like the stupid stage of grammar.
They have had since February to come to terms with this- it was over then, and I have stated as much repeatedly. The only thing that would change things would be a total disaster to Obama or the Supers over-turning things.
This is not a surprise. Start dealing with it.
More fun with idiots
Joe Lieberman defends John Hagee
Forget the fact that Hagee thinks Lieberman needs to die if he doesn’t convert to christianity.
all evidence suggests that these people aren’t as interested in policy as they are in tribal politics. they are fighting a partisan battle, not a policy battle. it doesn’t matter that Obama is better than McCain in every single way that should matter to them, given their ostensible party identification; what really matters is that the head of their faction lost, and they don’t like it, not one little bit. and the status of their faction is more important than anything else, right now.
they’re not going to be persuaded by policy arguments, because policy is secondary (at best) to tribalism.
(and my degree in Computer Science proves that i know what i’m talking about when it comes to sociology)
And you will help get more justices who say that a woman who has been discriminated against must file a lawsuit years BEFORE she knows she’s been discriminated against.
Because I’m looking for any opportunity I can to say something positive about Hillary Clinton so the healing can begin, she did defend Obama from Bush’s scurrilous attacks. Good for her. More please.
if I were a CT voter, I’d don a sackcloth for the next 4.5 years as a reminder whom NOT to vote for in 2012. How the hell did this douche fool the voters of CT again?
Yeah but ya left out the part where she says she thinks she’s the better one to beat McCain in the fall.
Well, unless most eventually come together, we’ll all be watching McCain being sworn in. I think Hillary will hang it up after the last primary, perhaps sooner if Obama gets to 2025 before then. And yes, I know that they’re trying to change the number, but I would assume the DNC rules committee will take care of that on the 31st. If not, blame it all on Howard Dean.
All I’m saying is calm down and show some patience. All will be fine in the end.
Dennis - SGMM
[the Johnsons load their guns and point them at Bart. Bart then points his own pistol at his head]
Bart: [speaking in a low voice] Hold it! Next man makes a move, the nigger gets it!
Olson Johnson: Hold it, men. He’s not bluffing.
Dr. Sam Johnson: Listen to him, men, he’s just crazy enough to do it!
Bart: [low voice] Drop it! Or I swear I’ll blow this nigger’s head all over this town!
Bart: [now speaking in a higher voice] Oh, lo’dy, lo’d, he’s desp’it! Do what he sayyyy, do what he sayyyy…
[the Johnsons drop their guns. Bart jams the gun into his neck and drags himself through the crowd and towards the station]
Harriett Van Johnson: Isn’t anybody going to help that poor man?
Dr. Sam Johnson: Hush, Harriet, that’s a sure way to get him killed!
Bart: [higher voice] Oooh! He’p me, he’p me! Somebody he’p me! He’p me! He’p me! He’p me!
Bart: [lower voice] Shut up!
[Bart places his hand over his own mouth, drags himself through the door into his office]
Bart: Ooh, baby, you are so talented! And they are so DUMB!
Its pretty outrageous that these women believe that Hillary lost because of sexism. Do they believe that Hillary would be anywhere near being the nominee if it was not for a man Bill Clinton? She took full advantage of his power and used it for her means. The entire democratic machinery is at her disposal because her husband’s clout. She touts his record and makes it her own. She claims the peace treaty he signed as her own. He did the work while she was sipping tea with the ladies(or whatever the heck it is that first ladies do).
Hillary is no different from Bush. He got it because of his father and she thinks he is entitled to it because of her husband.
Having a vagina does not entitle her to the presidency.
You know something?
Really. It is. In fact, if she was just saying that over the last two months she might have actually won. But she was more focused on OMG Obama is teh bad!!, and so she lost.
Should Know Better
If only there were some sort of referendum we could have to show how much more support Clinton has than Obama.
Some type of, oh I dunno… contest… where the public got to chose between the two candidates… think, dammit, think
Dennis - SGMM
THey should rename themselves “Ladies Against Women.”
Totally okay. When she starts saying that McCain is better than Obama for any reason, then she’s off the reservation.
Lynne, I understand what you’re saying, but these women are just… beyond it.
There have been many great people who have run for president and lost. We don’t see these kinds of temper tantrums over them, do we? There have been people better than Obama who have lost. Where are the boycotts over those people?
Hillary is NOT my candidate, but if she is the nominee I will vote for her. Because there are things at stake bigger than my ego. And, if some of these women really cared about progressive policy- they wouldn’t campaign against Obama.
Now notice I said campaign against Obama- that’s taking it too far. I think its bad enough if one won’t vote- but to be against someone because you didn’t get your way? We’re talking some serious narcissism here.
You really have to wonder why these people support Hillary at all. When you support Hillary, you are supporting her causes. Her causes are (largely) the opposite of McCain’s causes. So, these people are supporting Hillary’s causes by supporting McCain? Wha?
Something tells me that they are just speaking with their Lizard Brains. They should knock back a few scotches, tell a few knock knock jokes, and then return to reality, refreshed for a fight against the Dittoheads. These “Oh yeah, well we’ll show you” kindergarten antics are beneath them.
On further thought, I am SO sick of some women talking about Obama’s male privilege. He’s a BLACK male for crissakes! Not exactly a fucking privilege class in this country. Unless the privilege is landing in jail or something.
I am all for reconciling with Hillary supporters, but some of them are really out of their minds.
Reading the comments, I get the feeling some think Hillary would be set to implment Solana’s SCUM Manifesto were she elected.
Yeah, my money’s on a ratfuck to stir up the ah.. more volatile and passionate members of Clinton’s base.
NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM
I CAN HAZ RATFUCK?
Cynthia Ruccia is on the Franklin County Democratic Party Executive Committee. Since Mayor Coleman is an Obama supporter, and Obama ran very strong in Columbus, her move wouldn’t be popular here even if she wasn’t trying to torpedo the Democratic party. Looks like some phone calls to the mayor and the party central committee are in order…
You’re exactly right. To campaign against him would be wrong, and Hillary has said exactly that on more than one occassion. Like I said before, I think that once she actually pulls out of the campaign (my guess is right after Puerto Rico), many of these people with such raw feelings will start to come around. At least I hope so. But, I do think toning down some of the rhetoric by the winning side would help to salve some of the wounds. A scortched earth policy benefits no one ultimately.
I think that […] many of these people with such raw feelings will start to come around.
I think so too. I think there will also be a seriously deluded hard core who wouldn’t back Obama even if Clinton asked them to – zealots will sometimes take the purity thing so far they end up contradicting themselves.
Feminists, specifically these sort of feminists, have long been the most annoying members of the Democratic coalition. They are mostly a bunch of priviledged middle class whites with a stunning sense of entitlement. They are some of the most hateful, ignorant bigots you’re likely to find.
Most liberals are focused on combating bigotry against minorities, gays and women… which is fine. But the result is that these douchebags have gotten a pass for far too long. Additionally, since the target of their attacks have typically been white men (see: Lacrosse, Duke) no one on the left much minds. When you spend all your time focusing on all the sexist, racist and anti-gay folks in the white (male) community, you’re not going to end up with much sympathy for that group of people.
I’m not crying about the pain of the White Man, so don’t start that shit with me. White guys have lots of nice advantages, and women such as the ones mentioned barely register on my giveafuckometer. But they are hella stupid and supremely annoying. Especially annoying is how they go around saying how brilliant and learned they are as they loudly do and say stupid shit. Which brings me to my point… they turn people off.
One of the really super awesome things about this campaign is revealing these people for who they are. They most definitely WILL do everything in their power to punish Obama for beating their girl. They are petty, childish and do not like it when they don’t get their way. But that’s cool. With all the Obama Republicans and new voters that Obama has brought in, we don’t need these people. And as I said, they turn people off anyway.
We’ll be fine so long as we get the people who actually care about sexual freedoms and fighting bigotry.
Obama might be black, but he hasn’t exactly lived the urban black experience. Prep school in Hawaii – uh, no. College at Occidental and Columbia – damn, that must have been hell. Law School at Harvard – damn, finding a job after graduation must have been really, really hard. Living in a multi-million dollary house in the Hyde Park neighborhood in Chicago – damn, moving the crack dealers and hookers from his front walk must be a nightly chore.
He’s smart and took advantage of every benefit and opportunity that ever came his way (and good for him), but don’t try to compare his life to the average black man living in an urban ghetto. It doesn’t begin to compare.
Most precious Lynne. I guess when he left Harvard to be a community organizer on the South Side he was living in the lap of luxury too. You *do* know that’s what he did rather than move into a highly paid legal position, right?
I don’t think Obama is competing in the oppression Olympics, by the way, so it may be wise to avoid thrashing that strawman too severely.
Should Know Better
Unless you’re from the urban ghetto you haven’t experienced racial prejudice.
I suppose that means that since she’s rich, powerful and privileged Clinton hasn’t experienced any sexism then?
Good, we can all move on then.
Just Some Fuckhead
“My” candidate has lost every four years going back farther than I can remember anymore. I don’t recall stamping my foot and throwing a fit but then again, I’m not a closet racist whose candidate got beat by a black guy.
All the irrationality we’re seeing can be traced back to a simple irrational fear. It isn’t complicated.
Also, we really need better spoof around here, some of the poop we’ve seen today is not up to BJ standards.
Well, I’d probably be pretty angry and sad. Just like I was when every other one of my first picks tanked in the primaries (believe me I have quite a losing streak).
But I don’t recall EVER being so invested in a candidate that I would vote for a Republican for spite because my candidate proved to be incompetent at running a successful campaign.
Sure, I railed against Kerry and refused to vote for him in my primary after he got the nom. Thought he was a stick in the mud and an inferior choice for the party. When I found out he had Shrum on his staff I was merciless about questioning his intelligence. But I got over it and never considered the possibility of sitting it out or voting for Bush.
Perhaps there were Dean deadenders as well. But I have never, never in my 20 odd years with the Democratic party witnessed such a large group of supporters using the rationalization of “my candidate “deserves the nomination” to be complete asswipes. It boggles the mind.
Nobody “deserves” the nomination. They win it. Just like every candidate since George Washington. They either run a successful primary campaign or they don’t. She didn’t. It has nothing to do with her being a woman, a Clinton, or a former First Lady, and everything to do with her not hiring competent people armed with a successful game plan when plan A (February sweep) didn’t work. It’s that simple.
They don’t get breaks for being misguided sore losers. They might as well get it over with and join the Republican party as far as I’m concerned. Republicans seem to have a warped sense of entitlement and don’t care much for the rules either.
Sorry, precious, I’m not the one that compared his experience to the typical urban black male. I just stated why it is not comparable. As I said, he was presented with a great many opportunities not available to the average black male and he took full advantage of them. Most of his work as an organizer whas done between Columbia and Harvard. After graduation from law school, he went back to Chicago and worked for a short time on a voter registration drive and started teaching law school part-time. In 1993, he took a position at a law firm specializing in civil rights. Every single thing he has done since graduating from Columbia was done with a career in politics in mind. Read the profile on his rise in South Side Chicago politics in the New York Times. For heavens sakes, he’s a politician, not Mother Theresa.
Yeah , but people also have to lose with dignity. Its hard to be magnanimous if the losing side does not accept defeat and claims that they were somehow cheated out of victory.
Maybe the losing side should first accept reality.
Oops. Posted too fast.
Exception: Smoked-filled room candidates. That’s what Clinton partisans are likely hoping for this year. Just not sure that can be pulled off as easily in 2008. Unless you wanted to destroy the party. I’m sure the Republicans and the media would love to see that show.
I wish more people would remember that.
I am NOT saying he’s lived the typical urban experience. Neither have I. I grew up in some pretty swanky areas and my family isn’t poor. But I DO live with certain assumptions made about me because I’m black. It doesn’t offend me and I am rarely bothered by it. (To say I’m never bothered by it would be lying) It’s not a hardship, not like it would have been, back in the day. But it still sucks sometimes.
People ASSUME I think and feel certain ways because I’m black. Most of the time (except when I’m mad or passionately talking about something) I sound like a white girl. Then when people meet me in person they have a whole different tune- sometimes positive, sometimes negative. I’m not going to go into detail here because it is not worth it- but its not a privilege.
In my experience and many concur, that black men have it worse- especially in Philly. Black men and women still get followed in the store. But I remember in, while in Philly, watching white women clutch their purses close to them. Women and men looking at black men askance and whatnot. I didn’t see that in Portland so much because, well, aren’t that many black people. And in Denver, I’ve had black male friends stopped in neighborhoods. And when I speak of the black men I know, I am speaking of middle-class and upper-middle class blacks, like myself.
I don’t deal with that reality too often. What I mean is, when I come across idiots I tend to remove them from my “sphere” and don’t pay any attention to them. I know there are a lot of good people and even the people I speak of as acting racist are just very confused people. I do not think ill of them. I don’t think anything good… but I don’t think ill. And, I think such racial and gender divides can be overcome and need not affect one negatively.
But I say all this to point out that, no matter what circumstances one might be in, being a BLACK male- is no privilige.
Strawmen such as this are wearisome for one very obvious reason.
For men of color, race has overriden class in most circumstances. This is especially true of black men.
I’ll use the obvious example of MLK. He grew up as middle class as you could for an African-American of the time and he found racism to be both crippling and intolerable. Times have changed for the better since then, but do not make the mistake and think the middle class blacks don’t deal with racism. Many of my contempories were able to make it all the way to their teen years under such a pretence, only to have it removed by a policeman’s nightstick (to mention one form of overt racism) And I’m not talking ancient history. I’m talking the 1990s.
Now that we’ve beating THAT particular tangential horse to death, can we talk about the idiocy of these people now that Tracy Flick’s campaign is drawing to an ingominous end?
Well, they are angry and sad. You got over it, and so will they. I agree they are acting stupid, but railing at them about it, while perhaps satisfying one’s need to vent, doesn’t go too far bringing all the sides back together. If he’s supposed to the the magical unity pony, don’t you think that some of his more angry supporters (and yes, many of you are very angry for a variety of reasons) should climb in the saddle and ride that particular pony to victory in November?
This is where we disagree. I would not say a word if they were just angry or sad- I have skipped multiple target rich environments over the past few weeks at TL and other websites.
But when they begin to organize to trash the candidate, they cross a line. I wish I had an audio clip from the Big Lebowski where he yells over the line.
I agree that toning down the rhetoric would be good in bridging the gap. I do that quite often and I try to encourage others to do the same. We all need to work together on a common goal. I do not believe in demonizing the other side, it just causes more drama and nothing gets settled. So, it appears you and I are in agreement.
No one said anything about Obama being an urban black male. You added that little piece yourself. I don’t care what Obama did\does for a living, or which college he went to. If you’re a black male in this country you’re viewed as a black male first and foremost.
I have three brothers. They are all college educated, they are intelligent, and they speak proper English. We grew up in a middle class, all white neighborhood. All three of them have been stopped by the police for DWB. One of them was stopped by the police for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He and his friend were pulled out of the vehicle by the police, who has their guns drawn, and made to lie on the ground, in the middle of the street.
Hell, I’ve had women clutch their purses tighter when I walk by. I’ve had security guards follow me in stores.
Obama is famous now – everyone knows his face. But I’ll bet he can tell stories about being treated less than.
We must’ve been separated at birth ;-)
Also please don’t throw “all feminists” into the Hillary-supporting class. Quite a few of us support Obama.
Frankly, the major reason why I’m picking Obama over Hillary is because how each of them have run their campaigns. Hillary made all sorts of assumptions how she had a royal carpet to the nomination, acted like it was going to be more of an obvious coronation rather than a nomination, and then when this young upstart black politician from Chicago shows up, goes totally to pieces. Floundering. No game plan. Desperately grabbing at anything trying to stop him.
Given the curveballs that the POTUS is undoubtedly going to be inflicted with over the next several years, why, oh WHY should I be supporting a candidate who has already shown an inability to plan for problems and has no back-up Plan B?
I’m not being anti-feminist refusing to vote for Hillary. I’m being very PRO-feminist insisting that she demonstrate as least as much competence as her opponent.
Yep! There are a few of us out there. Pam of Pam’s household blend has had similar experiences as well.
I think it’s all good. I just love what people do sometimes, its all so fascinating.
Man, just imagine the Code Brown, DEFCON -911, State of Alert if a bunch of African-American voters said:
The fRighties would shit solid gold bricks and they’d have to scrape Bucchanan off the ceiling.
Death to hyphens.
Clinton’s supporters are crazed. They are simply out of their frickin minds.
Campaigns against a candidate don’t win. See Kerry v. Bush 2004. Wanting “not that guy” is not enough.
Also, I don’t want to drive Clinton supporters crazy but I’ve spent a bunch of time reading comments on TalkLeft and, for all their chest-thumping since February, mentions of actually doing something for her campaign (donating money, canvassing, showing up at rallies) are few and far between. If there is this supposed groundswell, why hasn’t it translated into votes, caucus attendance or money? (I don’t buy that all her supporters make under $50K and work double shifts. See Harvey Weinstein.)
I’m a white boomer female. I suppose I should be Hillary’s prime demographic except I’m better educated than her core, and I’m born and bred in the West. I became an Obama supporter rather late in the game, too, and I’ll tell you exactly what’s irritating people, including feminist women about her. She has not been honest or consistent. When asked about her AUMF vote, she didn’t come right out and say she made a big mistake the way Edwards did. She hemmed and hawed and said she didn’t think Bush would actually use the authorization to launch a war. She changed her persona every week during the campaign as if she were trying to find one that the voters would take to. One day she was crying about how hard things are and the next it was hard sarcasm riffing about her opponent’s themes. I couldn’t see what her character was really supposed to be. When Steve Kroft asked her on 60 Minutes whether she thought Obama was really a Muslim and she said “No, not that I know of,” I thought that was about the dirtiest, most underhanded sort of reply she could have given. I thought her threat to nuke Iran indicated an irresponsible approach to foreign policy of the worst sort. I thought her gas tax pander indicated an irresponsible approach to domestic policy of the worst sort. I thought her recent comment about “good hard-working white people” was utterly shameless coding.
I was not a Hillary hater. I liked the Clintons before this campaign. But you need to understand that there are very specific reasons that she has earned the distrust of so many members of the Democratic party. And you also need to realize that very few people who frequent this site are unaware that Obama is a very skilled politician. That is, after all, the profession of people who run for political office.
I have no idea what it’s like to be a black male. However I do know what it is like to face what genine and others mentioned. Right up front I will state that I could change everything with a few strokes of a razor and the unscrewing of a few posts but I have empathy for those who face such discrimination because I have been followed through stores, looked at with suspicion (the clutching purses), the cops following me etc. I cannot imagine what it is like, through no fault of ones own, to have to deal with that every single day.
Well, no, they haven’t. They still haven’t started coming to terms. Sen. Clinton is still not only campaigning but encouraging an 11-year-old boy that sell his bicycle and video games to donate to her campaign, and it’s still “Full speed to the White House”. Because of confirmation bias, her staunchest supporters only hear, or at least only regard, those reports that say she’s still In It To Win It. And until a week ago there were a lot of those reports.
I continue to hope that, once the inevitable is acknowledged by the Clinton campaign, she manages to gracefully begin the process of repairing the strains this long contest has wrought in the party. I don’t like the divisive approach I feel her campaign has taken, but not to work full-out to repair the party would risk a stern and enduring verdict on her candidacy.
That said, while I do not doubt the sincerity or long-term goodwill of the vast majority of Clinton backers, some of the people supporting her at this point – or, rather, purportedly supporting her – may well be in it only to maximize the divisions in the Party, and the organization that inspired this post, or others of similar purpose, could indeed be ratfcuking operations.
Same here. Honestly Obama was my first choice and I actually wanted an Obama/Clinton ticket from the beginning because it would make the wingers explode (and die faster I hoped). However given how her campaign has behaved (especially when backed into a corner) and due to the general disdain shown by her and bill towards those who support obama and towards Obama himself I couldn’t care if she was elected dog catcher. I am sorry but while I was luke warm to her before, now I am cold.
I have been part of an email internet group for over 10 years. Two of the participants are from Columbus. Both of them send the most obnoxious anti-Obamas (Michelle, too) articles because 6 of us out of 11 are Obama supporters. The bigots thrive there. Now we delete them.
They voted for Hillary in the primary because Rush told them to do it.
Added info – Rev. Parsley is from Columbus.
We do have one feminist Hillary supporter in the group from CT. She can’t let go or get over Rev. Wright, the flag pin, etc. The 4 women who are supporting Obama are “traitors to the sisterhood”.
Since NC they qieted down until today when I got an Obama smear email and one on how badly Hillary was treated.
“Misguided sore losers” and “rationalizing asswipes” is about the extent of my fiery rhetoric against these women. To me they don’t really matter because I think it’s likely their cause will be less than an afterthought in October. The fervor will die. It always does.
As for the unity pony:
Well, you know, it’s not really my job to be rounding up and riding the magical unity ponies. It’s Obama’s job. It’s Clinton’s job. It’s the Democratic Party’s job. I do not identify that closely with my candidate, IOW.
I’m an Obama supporter, I don’t think he’s Super Politician! Righter of all wrongs, defender of truth, justice and the Democratic brand. He’s a politician which means he’s flawed, he will undoubtedly piss me off, and he will never be or do exactly what I want him to be or do. I’ve no illusions.
I’m also a voter and a blogger. What I’m not is a DNC official or Obama surrogate. I just don’t get the whole bloggers have to heal the wounds and strike the unity pose. That makes absolutely no practical sense to me.
What exactly are we supposed to do? Tempt her angry and disappointed supporters with juice and cookies and have a condescending heart to heart about why they should vote for Obama in November if they still want to be good and loyal Democrats? That would piss me off to no end.
I’m an adult. I have to assume they are too. Nobody gets to tell me how to vote and I return the favor. I can point out why someone’s vote may be misguided, but that’s it.
About the persistent anger: When the insults and attacks stop people will stop railing against them (except for the few who just can’t let it go — no matter where you go there will always be assholes who just can’t let it go). That’s the way it usually happens. Cause and effect. Clinton backs off, bloggers back off. She or some of her supporters or surrogates say something to provoke a reaction, they tend to provoke a reaction. They don’t say anything provocative they don’t get a reaction. Simple equation.
What? Are you saying that in the name of unity we have to ignore these attacks, insults, or intellectual dishonesties? If so, screw that. The DNC, the party and the supers ignored things for far too long and look where we are now.
Personally, I’m ready to move on to the general election. When Clinton and her supporters are ready they are more than welcome to join me. But it is ultimately their choice. That’s about as fast as my personal unity pony gallops.
However, if they keep pushing against the start of the general election in an effort to stop or harm Obama’s candidacy I can’t promise to be magnanimous in my behavior to that pushback.
Sorry for the long post.
Bill Whittle wrote the long essay, “Tribes” last year describing this cultural phenomenon… and every liberal blogsite around went into conniptions, even to the point of nominating it for a Golden Wingnut award. And now, a year later, they parrot the same theories of the article they criticized. Can’t say I’m surprised, though. It’s not the first time this behavior has shown itself.
I have friends who have been nursing grudges for years. Years. And these are legitimate grudges, too: shafted at work, family squabbles, etc. One thing I’ve noticed is that some people are nearly impossible to pry from their grievances. Nothing will get them to change, because they define themselves through bitterness. That, it looks to me, is what we’re dealing with in these hardcore Hillary supporters. They’re too busy being angry to get over their anger. And besides, how do you get over a grudge that isn’t even rooted in reality in the first place?
Ranger3, I agree with what you said. Some feminists don’t seem to have a strong grip on reality, and lately I’ve been wracking my brain trying to figure out why. When I read rants about “the patriarchy” I don’t know wheter to laugh or kick my monitor.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but black Americans who have lived “the experience” have invested their hopes in Obama, which is why the quasi-racist invective from Clinton’s camp is so disgusting to me.
zoe from pittsburgh
Can we try and *not* make this about feminists or feminism?
There are crazies everywhere, found within every party, all over the political spectrum. They are the kind of women who give feminism a bad name. However, it probably means they’ve faced a lot discrimination in their own lives and have projected the righting of all past wrongs onto Hillary becoming the first woman POTUS.
They are positively blinded by their support of Hillary, justifying every misstep, every lie or “misspeak.” They take it so far that they’re willing to support John “Roe needs to be overturned” McCain because they feel so victimized on Hillary’s behalf. I know they’re ridiculous and infuriating but what they really need is help– or at the very least to be ignored.
I guess in place of a gigantic gender gap this fall, we’re going to have an intelligence gap. Irretrievably dangerously stupid people for McCain, and everyone else for anybody else. Don’t worry, in this electoral realignment, we gain more than we lose, and the people who vote with stupid get marginalized. WIth a bit of hard work, this year will become a sort of political Darwinism in a good way, the thriving of the smart.
It’s the Kyle Syndrome
“Kyle,” voiced by Miller’s sidekick Jim Ward. Kyle, a prissy, geeky-voiced Hillary Clinton supporter, threatens gloom and doom upon the Democratic Party if Clinton isn’t nominated, saying he will vote for McCain to punish the party. The joke, of course, is that anyone could have such a distended, overripe ego that he would expect a political party to kowtow to his wishes, regardless of the party’s nominee having legitimately gained the most delegates.
In the ‘real’ world, as opposed to the online ‘world’, my wife and I know quite a few people who are Hillary supporters. Of all the ones we have asked, all but two say they will vote for Obama. Why? Because if he is the Democratic candidate, then he is the guy they are voting for.
While there are some rabid Hillary supporters out there, I believe that they are the exception and not the rule. Even of the two women we know who said that they were voting for Hillary no matter what, they intend on writing her name in if need be. I can respect that.
Not one mention of voting for McCain from any of them. One did tell my wife awhile back that she was voting Hillary or McCain if Hillary does not get it, but even she has calmed down and now will vote for Obama if he is the candidate.
I have a feeling that more than a few of the Hillary voters who are holding McCain to their heads and threatening to pull the trigger are really Republicans who are intent on spreading mayhem in the ranks.
Some of the posters at Hillaryis44 write some long-assed posts, and if you read them carefully you can pick up right wing meme. The fixation on the gay crap is one big clue. Hillaryis44 is crawling with people who claim to be gay, have gay family members or friends, but they fixate on ‘teh ghey’ to desperately tie Obama to something gay to bring him down.
While I believe Hillaryis44 may be legit, I think some of the members are repubs. Some of the stuff I read is so full of crap that I can’t believe that the rest of them can’t see it for what it is. One guy claims to be 90 years old, but he uses net lingo like a kid, is proficient at making videos for YouTube. Just too much crap doesn’t add up, and I can see the real Democrats there struggle to reason voting for McCain while being berated by the other Hillary ‘supporters’ who are trying to steer them that way.
Out of all the posters there, I can pick out nine that I know are repub trolls. Easily. They are constantly stirring the pot and trying to keep the real Hillary supporters at a high level of rage against Obama.
I have no problem with real Hillary supporters, people who say they are Democrats and will vote Democrat no matter the candidate. They are people I can talk to and there will be a good chance that the conversation will be substantiative. But the people who say they will vote for McCain? I am not going to let them get away with calling themselves Democrats. I will call them on their crap every time I can, and I hope everyone else who supports Obama will do so too.
On the slight chance that NoIQ comes in here and reads this, then dives in with a ‘But you said that you will vote for McCain if Hillary is the winner’. Yes I did, but that was when I first started supporting Obama. I was pissed about the crap the Clintonistas spewed, and I said something stupid. On top of that, I was a registered independent at the time, and I was under no obligation to vote Democratic.
Now that I am actually ‘invested’ in Obama and a registered Democrat, I will re-register as an independent and write him in if the win is given to Hillary. No matter what, my vote is going to Obama. Nobody is taking that away from me.
I. Will. Not. Vote. For. John McCain. Ever.
Totally agree with you hear John… This is way over the line.
What’s so amazing is how they think that trying to hold the party and super-delegates hostage to their demands is somehow more legitimate than the actual contests held. I love this part:
“And there are millions of supporters who will back us up in the swing states. If you don’t listen to our voice now, you will hear from us later.”
The thing is, we already listened to their voices… They got a vote just like everyone else. I know it sucks when it happens, but the person they voted for lost… her opponent got even more votes. That’s kind of what happens. If they somehow come to the conclusion that McCain would actually be a better president than the other guy who actually won the primary, well, that’s certainly unfortunate (and difficult to understand), but that’s their right. They had their opportunity to have their voice heard just like everyone else, but there were more people who disagreed with them. Sorry.
In my view, some of the more ‘enthusiastic’ (real) Hillary supporters are acting like some spoiled kid who lost a contest and now they are up on the roof of the school threatening to jump unless they get to win.
If they were my kids, I would tell them to go ahead and jump. Try it and see if they like it any better than just losing a contest. That is one of the things that I just can’t figure out; they are more than happy to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Being that her demographic are older people, I would have thought that they would have matured beyond their teenage years. They want to whine about the ‘kids’ who are supporting Obama, and yet they insist on acting no better than children themselves.
Combine this attitude with infiltrating ratfuckers from the right, and you have the makings of a mess. A mess that only Hillary can attempt to defuse properly. Obama will win a lot of Clinton supporters over, the real Democrats of the party who vote the party ticket. But to get to the hard core Hillary supporters, Hillary herself is going to have to reason with them.
Some of them have the attitude that if she asks them to vote for Obama, it will be because she was forced in to it by the party. They believe that the only way she will concede is if she is forced to do so by the party. They want the win now, or it is on to Denver or else for them. This is a problem that Hillary created, and if she is sincere when she concedes then she will have to make a concerted effort to undo the damage she has done. I don’t know if she will be able to undo all of it, probably not, but if she does not make a concerted effort then she should be called on it immediately.
What some of the women have to ask themselves is, is Hillary really the best that they can do? Is she a self-made career woman, or has she ridden to power on the coattails of her husband? Or is there a better woman out there in the wings? Are they grasping at Hillary because even though she is not a self-made woman, at least she stands a better chance to win than anyone else that they have now? If that is the case, then they are only fooling themselves into thinking that life will be roses and candy with Hillary in the White House.
As much as Clinton supporters love to point out (incorrectly, IMO) that Barack would not be where he is if he was white, I know for damn sure that Hillary would not be where she is if not for her husband. Even her senate seat is hers because of her husband. She is riding on the Clinton name, and not much else. If she went to New York as any other woman married to any other ‘not famous’ man, it is doubtful that she would have won her seat.
When people went in to the voting booth in the NY senate races, they may have saw Hillary Clinton on the ballot, but Bill was their reason for pulling the lever for her.
No doubt about it.
Nope, I’m with the “they’re stealth Repugs” camp. I know a lot of Hillary supporters, and they’ll all vote for Obama without too much grief except for one (male by the way) who will openly admit to being a racist.
And racists are naturally more likely to belong to the party where racism is OK. I agree, they sound like a bunch of dittoheads working “operation chaos”
And not doing all that great a job of it either, since they’re pretty easy to spot.
Even if the site is a ratfuck Repub operation, it is sucking some real Hillary supporters in. They fund raise for her and help in her campaign. They have posted pics of themselves at events and primaries/caucuses, so if Hillary’s campaign is aware of their existence (and I am sure her campaign is aware of them), then they are operating with their implied permission. This fools real supporters in to thinking it is a real Hillary site.
Sad, but since a lot of her voters are older people, they are not the most computer savvy (I know, I sell and service computers!). So they are being taken advantage of, again, by the right.
All we can hope is Hillary pulls them out of it and patches things up good. If she doesn’t, you can bet people like me will call her out on it. She helped to make this mess with her proclamations of Obama’s (so-called) unelectability, and now some of her supporters take this to mean that if she don’t win, then go vote for McCain. With the repub ratfuckers out there, this is a situation ripe for exploitation.
Early on, when there was a better chance that Hillary might win, I was hearing much the same from Obama supporters. Now it’s the other way around. Some people are just sore losers. This is not fixed by some people being sore winners.
[Note to Lynne: “Obama might be black, but he hasn’t exactly lived the urban black experience. Prep school in Hawaii – uh, no. College at Occidental and Columbia – damn, that must have been hell. Law School at Harvard – damn, finding a job after graduation must have been really, really hard.”
My brother-in-law graduated cum laude from Harvard Law school and watched his C+ white classmates get courted by good law firms while he had to hit the bricks at graduation. Then again, a lot of white women have similar experiences where their male classmates are concerned. I certainly noticed that my female friends in engineering didn’t get recruited before they graduated, despite their top grades, while their slacker male classmates were offered high-paying jobs well before graduating. And, ironically, you often heard these guys complaining, “A woman with an engineering degree can write her own ticket.” No, she couldn’t.
There has been sexism, and there has been racism, making a difference in this race, no question. Pretending it’s not there is stupid. Pretending that’s the only reason people have to object to your favorite candidate is also stupid. But pretending there is any reason not to vote for the Democratic nominee in November is the stupidest thing of all.]
You can naysay all you want — call us anything you want but we will not vote for Obama — WE WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA — no amount of threats of the supreme court yadayadayad — it’s already conservative. With a democratic house which we will have– not to worry. McCain all the way
McCain trolls will vote for McCain? What a suprise.
The Golden Wingnut nomination was partially awarded for chutzpah. For any rightwinger to complain about tribalism in the Democratic camp, this late in the GOP’s sad self-induced slide into obscurity, is pretty nauseating.
From the Whittle essay:
That’s the other half of why Whittle earned the nod. I can’t wait for the Obama Presidency to drag all of the secret racism out of the rightwing partisans and expose it for everyone to see. My running hypothesis is that most of you either have that kind of attitude somewhere inside or you willingly associate yourselves with it, like you just did. Either way you’re illustrating better than I ever could how wingerdom is on the losing side of history.
I have to admit, back in 2000, I was pretty angry with Al Gore for undercutting the DOJ about the whole Elian Gonzalez thang, going as far as saying that I would not vote for him in November. Ever. Nader has always sucked so I was going with some weird-ass party.
Then the Daily Howler came along, and that flew out the window when I saw that my perception of Al Gore was a bit, um, colored by press whores. I couldn’t bash my chad hard enough for Gore after that.
These people will be the same way when they realize that McCain might be even more of a crud than Bush is.
Here’s your sign….
This message was brought to you by a Republican who is pretending to be a Hillary supporter. John McCain and the Republican party approve of this message.
Lono in N.O.
OVER THE LINE!
It includes Walter’s lead-in conversation, so you’ll get to use your newfound “Audacity”.
Lono in N.O.
Well that didn’t work.
The link just takes you to the Wavplanet home page.
Just search for “over the line”