Lisa Caputo, one of the Clinton hacks on MSNBC tonight, just claimed (fraudulently) that Hillary had the popular vote but was behind in the delegate math, and that this felt like “Al Gore in 2000 when it had to go to the Supreme Court.”
Matthews, apparently still high from the hair dye he used last week to turn his hair tomato red, did not correct her, as Clinton is only ahead in the popular vote if you include the vote tallies from the non-elections in Michigan and Florida and do not count the vote in caucus states. These fucking hacks will say anything.
The pause in Clinton bashing is officially over. Have at it. If they feel free to peddle this divisive bullshit, to hell with being nice back. I have had enough of this Rovian crap.
*** Update ***
Via the comments:
Bingo. According to the RCP source most Clinton supporters use. The only metric she can be ahead in is with not counting IA, NV, ME, WA , and counting FL and MI while giving Obama 0 votes in MI. And even with that Aunt Annie style twist on the numbers Clinton is still only +26,967.
There is a word for this. It is called LYING.
*** Update #2 ***
Yep, called that. Obama released his April numbers today to rain on Hillary’s Kentucky Fried parade:
News has learned that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., hauled in $31.9 million in April (including $600,000 for the general election) to continue his battle for the Democratic nomination against Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. Two hundred thousand new donors joined Obama’s effort last month.
Obama has an mighty $37.3 million on hand with $9.2 million tucked away for the general election.
Camp Obama proves (again) that big money comes in small packages. It’s been a pattern since last year but the numbers are still impressive: 1.475 million total donors overall making 2.93 million contributions. The average contribution is $91.
The clicks come in small waves: 94% of the contributions to Obama’s effort were under $200, 93% of contributions were $100 or less, 77% were $50 or less, and 52% were $25 or less.
Hillary raised somewhere between ten and 20 million.
I thought they would release them today. Face it- Obama’s campaign is good.
*** Update #3 ***
Commenters rain on my self-congratulatory parade:
Obama’s campaign is good. But they had to release the numbers today. The 20th of the month is the FEC deadline.
The strategy was in not releasing them earlier, so that when Clinton released her weaker numbers today, it would be a sharper contrast.
Sometimes having a comments section sucks.
*** Update #4 ***
Howard Fineman gave the most amazing analysis just a moment ago, which literally was “Everyone knows Obama has won, and it is only a matter of finding a way to let Clinton wrap it up without blowing up the party.”
In other words, my hostage metaphor remains accurate. Knowing the Clintons, they will probably keep fighting on, spreading bullshit, and whipping their supporters in a froth because, let’s face it. This is all about them.
*** Update #5 ***
Line of the night to Ron Reagan- “If Appalachia was a country, Hillary Clinton could be President.”
The best thing about this After Hours is that everyone wants to just SCREAM when the Clinton surrogate brings up the nonsense about the popular vote. They are quite literally laughing at the Clinton campaign now, which is a shame, because when you look back at the nomination a lot of people HAVE in fact voted for Hillary. But to do this popular vote nonsense when it is delegates that matter and to include the Michigan and Florida popular vote and not from the caucus states is just maddening. Even the pundits can’t take it anymore.
corwin
It wasn’t even Al Gore that took it to the Supreme Court. It was Bush that took it to the US Supreme Court to stop the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court.
Genine
I still vote for more understanding and compassion when possible. And I will admit, they make it hard sometimes. But, ultimately, defeating McCain is worth it.
dwightkschrute
Isn’t it even more contrived than that? I thought it was not counting caucus states and counting FL and MI as is. Meaning gets Obama zero of the uncommitted votes in MI.
Tax Analyst
No, I think that was LAST week. I think you have to ask Bill what the standard is this week. I understand he’s in full-bloviation mode on the subject.
RampantSexism
I don’t think it is necessary to trash a very impressive candidacy (HRC) because some pundit on tv made a gaffe.
That isn’t fair treatment at all.
wasabi gasp
Hillary sold you a bag of oregano in high school.
misc
She’s making the same claim. This isn’t a case of a supporter going off the reservation.
montysano
Don’t forget Poland.
dwightkschrute
Bingo. According to the RCP source most Clinton supporters use. The only metric she can be ahead in is with not counting IA, NV, ME, WA , and counting FL and MI while giving Obama 0 votes in MI. And even with that Aunt Annie style twist on the numbers Clinton is still only +26,967.
Genine
Yes, the incompetence of her campaign is very impressive.
Krista
Let them move the goalposts around all that they like, and engage in their “if my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle” rhetoric. They don’t want to admit that their candidate is losing. Bashing Clinton, while admittedly very satisfying, is only going to help perpetuate the divisiveness.
Time to take the high road, as hard as that can be.
KRK
According to a fairly detailed chart at realclearpolitics, the only way to count popular votes and have Clinton ahead is as John said and dwightkschrute clarified:
Include FL votes.
Include Clinton’s MI votes and give Obama 0 votes for MI.
Count 0 votes for IA, NV, WA, and ME.
Even then, her “lead” is just shy of 27,000 votes.
If estimates for IA, NV, WA, and ME are included (but Obama still gets 0 for MI), Obama takes the lead by about 83,000 votes.
This is NOT an argument for the superdelegates. None of them are buying this. This is ABSOLUTELY an argument for the media and for Clinton’s low-information dead-enders to undermine the perceived legitimacy of Obama’s nomination and candidacy (and presidency).
Ted
Funniest comment of the day. Thanks!
Wilfred
Just remember this when it’s over and they start with the lame-ass ‘let’s come together with Hillary as VP’ bullshit. Give her a well done with a golf clap and send her packing.
KRK
I see dwightkschrute beat me to the RCP numbers.
I for one would LOVE to see Clinton run again for the nomination in 2012 or 2016 and try to explain to those all-important and unusually well-informed Iowa caucusers why she thought their votes should count for nothing when deciding the 2008 nomination.
Ted
Won’t do a damn bit of good. The Hillary fans who say they won’t vote for Obama will not be persuaded by anyone being nice to them. For them, this is personal, and they’d rather blow up the country with another GOP White House than vote for the Dem nominee. Which means they don’t care about liberal/progressive policies. Just Hillary.
Mary
God, I want someone on tv to jump up and ask incredulously whether the voters of Iowa, Nevada, Washington and Maine, who participated in caucuses approved by the Democratic party, just don’t count. That’s appalling. All this post-hoc bullshittery needs to be pointed at and mocked mercilessly.
t jasper parnell
This is a good point, the strategy of counting only voters who “count” is so short sighted and jury rigged.
Mary
She’s crowing about her efforts to “make every vote count” right now. I’m seething.
John S.
Represent!
(My wife runs an Auntie Anne’s franchise.)
t jasper parnell
Besides which, wouldn’t she need those voters, or their representatives and the various coalitions,to pass legislation?
Mary
OTOH, while McAuliffe is simpering about pulling in between 10 and 20 million in April, Obama brought in over 31 million — without pathetically begging for money in every media appearance.
And some of those donations came from here. Way to go, guys!
KRK
To add to the thousands of reasons why this “argument” is so offensive, the Clintons know full well that MI and FL will have delegations at the convention. It’s all going to be resolved on May 31 when the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee votes. Everyone knows that the resolution, whatever it will be, will have voting delegates for MI and FL.
The main punishment and disincentive intended under the DNC rules have had their intended effect: FL and MI missed out on early campaigning attention, activity, and revenue, and their votes will be recognized only after it’s past the point where they could decide the outcome of the nomination. But the votes will count. My hope is that they give full votes to pledged delegates and halve or eliminate the votes of those states’ superdelegates, since it’s the superdelegates who had the genius plan to ignore the rules in the first place.
ThymeZone
Can you see the guy in the brown shirt just to the right of Hillary’s left shoulder there on the tv?
That’s why we vote against her.
Seriously.
Delia
“As Kentucky goes, so goes the nation,” she says. Who the frack says that?
Krista
You’re probably right. I wasn’t thinking of persuasion, though. I know that there are many Clinton supporters out there who would not piss on Obama to put him out if he was on fire. However, I just don’t see what can be gained by giving them even more attention, and would prefer that their goalpost-moving just be ignored while Obama and his supporters roll up their sleeves and get to work trouncing McCain.
El Doh
Who knew Elitists were so cheap?
marjo
she just said, who’s ready to rebuild the economy and the war in Iraq. are we rebuilding the war in Iraq now?
Mary
Shouldn’t brown t-shirt guy be off supporting one of the Davids on American Idol?
ThymeZone
OMG, brown shirt guy just blew her a kiss.
In the name of everything decent, get this woman off my radar screen. Please.
Succor. Mercy.
cleek
she’s fuckin delusional
John Cole
BTW- a really fucking smart blogger somewhere predicted they would release the fundraising numbers today. I wonder who that was? That guy is good, I tell you what.
r€nato
Mary, those are some incredibly impressive numbers. Over a million bucks a day, mostly from small donors. That’s what has been lacking in our campaigns all these many years – a donor base which is made up of we the people, not fat cats and special interests.
I will do my best not to engage in triumphalism, but it is awfully exciting to think about how Obama can really change the landscape for years to come, especially when it comes to evening the campaign playing field with the Rethugs.
LaMoose
I wish I’d said this first.
She must be stopped.
Mary
/blows John a kiss for being really fucking smart and for removing her extra post
KRK
I felt this way for a while, too. But this is beyond trying to win it for Clinton. They’re trying to de-legitimize Obama’s all-but-certain victory.
From a comment in the previous thread:
This needs to be challenged openly every time it’s offered, not allowed to fester in quiet.
Krista
Yup. His campaign is lovely at releasing those little tidbits right when it counts. Smart, smart people working for a smart man.
Ted
The masterstroke so far was still the Edwards endorsement timing. Knocked WV right out of the mouths of the cable bobble-heads completely.
Keith
I’ve already got $100 ready to send to Sen. Obama for the general election once this primary crap is over. I don’t see myself giving more than $500, but every newsworthy, dumbshit thing out of McCain’s mouth is going to be worth a $100 donation until I hit my cap.
KRK
Obama’s campaign is good. But they had to release the numbers today. The 20th of the month is the FEC deadline.
The strategy was in not releasing them earlier, so that when Clinton released her weaker numbers today, it would be a sharper contrast.
rob!
i know that’s a lot less than Obama, but how the F**K is her raising $10-20 million even possible?
that’s like the captain of the Titanic booking passengers’ next cruise as the ship sinks into the freezing water.
The Grand Panjandrum
Who fucking cares about the Clintons. Obama raised $31 million last month and has $37 million banked. After tonight he will have the majority of pledged delegates available and sanctioned. By the end of the week the SD’s will make a move to give Obama his 2025 delegates. The Clinton can go back to her mansion in Westchester Country to lick her wounds and count that $100 million she and Bill have in the bank.
Bashing Clinton really isn’t nearly as much fun and taking shots at McCain. He is still a viable candidate. Unlike his drinking buddy Hillary.
Ted
I didn’t see her speech. Please tell me what!
Delia
Did you notice that every single person standing behind Hillary during her victory speech was white? every last one of them. It could almost have been a gooper gathering.
KRK
Don’t forget she claims to have had a $10 million day just after the Pennsylvania primary on April 22. So she basically got bupkis for the rest of the month.
nightjar
That Hillary she’s as a $%^^%$$#GH^^%$$##@#@@@@*(()*&()(!!!!
I feel better now.
Soylent Green
They are holding their breath until they turn blue. Most, not all, will come home to the party, because they like breathing. The others we can do without, and good riddance to such nitwits.
The big question is not what Hillary’s fans will do but what Hillary will do. At some point her peers are going to grab her by the throat and start shaking vigorously to impress upon her the potential damage she is doing to the party’s chances.
I’m still expecting sane Hillary to prevail (by about June 10), not kill the party Hillary.
Fair warning to Obamans: we may have to let her have the VP slot as her consolation prize.
jaime
So…will now that Hillary won the all important Swing state of Kentucky, will the Taylor Martians forget about the million white people in Oregon?
Tax Analyst
Well, your “aunt/uncle” scenario certainly would take some of the air out of the “sexism” accusations, at least I think it should.
Yes, we would all probably be better served on that high road, but every time I try and get up on it there’s Bill or Hill or some cousin Will or Terry McAuliffe or Howard Wolfson frantically waving a “Detour” sign at me. Then they hand you this convoluted “alternate route” that doesn’t make a lick of sense. If you try to follow it you just end up going nowhere and scratching your head.
Shoot, all I want to do is help deliver this poised, intelligent, thoughtful, well-spoken young fellow to the White House before that old, doddering, crotchety fool John McCain can plant his fanny there. It really shouldn’t be all that hard.
It would sure help if our “teammates” would stop trying to convince us that “Sorry, but you’re not what we want” really translates into, “Oh please, Senator Clinton, stay and battle to the bitter end…you’re our only hope”.
Speaking only for myself I would be most happy to stop bashing them if they would only just get the fuck out of the way. After they do that I could even stomach giving the good Senator a rousing, heart-warming, phony-assed, kissy-faced Convention greeting.
Because when all is said and done the point IS to beat John McCain in November and see if we can take our country back from the bullies, thieves and hacks who have been pretty much running amok for the past 7+ years. If we can’t all get behind that purpose then maybe we’re not as bright, clever and insightful as we’d all like to believe.
Ted
In fairness, wasn’t that their reported income? The poor, downtrodden, overly taxed couple probably had to fork over about 40% of that to the IRS.
LaMoose
If you dare peer into the face of utter madness (TalkLeft), click here and read the comments.
As the psychopathy of Hillary supporters appears to be reaching its crescendo, I find myself really enjoying it. God, I love winning. Especially against these lobotomites.
Ted
Only if Obama makes the VP job return to its previous status of show-horse and seat-warmer. I can settle for a Gore-like VP existence for Hillary. But not a Dick version.
Dulcie
POTD!
Tax Analyst
That’s freaking hysterical. It so happens I used that exact ridiculous old bromide in an earlier thread – as a mockery of all the convoluted crapola their campaign keeps spewing out.
Billy K
No wonder they switched parties.
dwightkschrute
Apparently it’s not just for surrogates living in different reality…
Monday in Kentucky Hillary said “more people have voted for me than have voted for my opponent,””
and minutes ago she just included a similar line in her Kentucky victory speech.
I know I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but a few things about this really puzzle me.
1. One thing Hillary has continually been knocked around on is her trustworthiness. The Tuzla incident being a prime example of people pouncing on the issue. Knowing that’s the case, why throw something out there that’s so easily shown to be a total canard?
2. How can one make the argument that we need to “count every vote” in regards to FL and MI but continually use a popular vote metric that doesn’t count IA, NV, ME, and WA?
Billy K
Hey, I know! She can make diploma-cratic visits to places like…um…BOSNIA!
douglasfactors
Not only is popular vote argument bogus, it’s a blatant attempt to delegitimize the presumptive nominee.
The Hillary campaign has grown malignant, and it’s about to metastasize into the general election.
Ted
Indeed. But all further tax-related comments should be handled by another certain commenter who’s here right now. I know nothing.
Delia
Well, as a white person in Oregon, let me assure you that 1- people have over two hours left to turn in their ballots, and 2- Obama’s very popular here. I just caught some delusional thread on No Quarter where the inmates seemed to think alternatively that if they’d had another week to make phone calls they could have swung those 75,000 folks in Portland who turned out for the Obama rally over to their idol OR that if they could only just cut off the Willamette Valley and send if off into the sea, the remainder of the population might go for Hillary. Since that’s where the majority of the population resides, they might have a point.
nightjar
Then there’s Bubba Hillary, Bone White Hillary, Miner Jack Hillary, John Barleycorn Hillary, Orphan Annie Oakley Hillary, and Sluggo Hillary, then you might get a fleeting glimpse of the sane Hillary.
jake
Brown Shirts for Hillary!
Sorry. That was wrong awful unnecessary and of course sexist.
Billy K
She didn’t think Tuzla would be easy to refute. It was.
She’s counting on most people not caring about the details of the FL/MI debacle.
Andrew
Shouldn’t Obama get John Edwards’ popular votes if we’re just making up all sorts of bullshit measurements?
Mary
John King is a tool who thinks small town America = Appalachia . I wonder if he’ll notice the rural vote going for Obama in Oregon?
Ted
Someone please fill me in on what was special about the brown-shirted guy behind Hillary?
Delia
One thing that really breaks my heart: last night someone here linked to this thread on No Quarter where Susan had created a poster portraying Hillary as the Sun Goddess and explicitly comparing her to Eva Peron (yes indeed, she did. And she had an old Time Magazine cover of Eva for good measure.) Well, today that whole thread has disappeared without comment. I figure the Clinton campaign must have told the loonies they’d really jumped the shark with that one. But I’m very sad and really regretting I didn’t get a screenshot of the page of the fanatics lapsing into Peronistas.
Mary
Ted, it was a young guy wearing a brown t-shirt with “Hillary” written in flowery script, almost obscured by several large pieces of Hillary flair. Really, more American Idol than anything else.
protected static
Delia — Google cache is your friend. Take all the screenshots you want…
John Cole
Actually, the link works directly, which means they deleted it but don’t know how to really delete it.
Mary
CNN is breathlessly announcing that Obama has now gained the majority of pledged delegates based on his share of the KY delegates.
Andrew
Christ, 2 out of 10 Kentucky voters admitted to voting based on mother fucking race.
People are just plain stupid.
nightjar
Sun goddess? I’d say more like a commie dominatrix.
Tax Analyst
I guess you mean me. And wouldn’t you know it, I actually HAD copies of the Clinton’s tax returns for about the last 6 or 7 years on my computer here at work…a colleague e-mailed them to me for my general amusement and perusal – but I seem to have deleted them in a frenzy of e-mail house-cleaning at the end of Tax Season. I can get him to send them again, but not today.
Anyway, depending on several variables – like how much of their income was from Capital Gains (taxed at a much lower rate than the wage income most of us make. Maximum Cap Gain rate is currently 15%) and how much of that $100+ million was earned in each year it would probably be safe to say that about 1/3 of their taxable income would have gone to Federal Income Taxes. On top of that both of them would likely have a fair whack of Self-Employment tax since they have book sales earnings and Bill has been pretty well compensated on the rubber-chicken circuit giving speeches. Much of that caps out as you get near $100,000 net (each person), but 2.9% that goes for Medicare nevers caps, so that could be a bunch. Deductions? Well, their itemized deductions are going to be limited because they have a high AGI(Adjusted Gross Income). Then you would have to add in their State Income Taxes. I imagine Hillary would have to be a resident of New York state in order to be a Senator from that State. NY has a pretty high Tax rate. So I would say that overall a 40+% combined tax bite wouldn’t be out of the realm. That still would leave the happy couple with a bit of walking around change.
But I don’t think you’ll hear Hill bitch about it, since it’s likely she would be loathe to remind all of her “hard-working, white, working-class” supporter’s that she’s really not in the same type of pickle they are finding themselves in.
Hey, there’s nothing wrong with making money. And there’s nothing wrong with standing up for the “little guy”. But I’m pretty sure it can be honestly done without having to belly-up to the bar and knocking down some shooter’s for the TV cameras.
Iago
Talk left is feeling more and more like Redstate,com every day.
Don’t you dare disagree with the idea of the day… which is the same ever day.. hillary is teh awesomest thing to ever carry a uterus! :)
Rock on ladies… rock on.
Bey
unashamed
It makes me sick.
Mary
“My lady parts do not ache for Hillary Clinton.”
Delia
Aww, thanks,guys.
Keith
I’m actually a bit surprised that HRC’s choice of the (pretty-damn-good-but-not-great) Crown Royal over any number of excellent Kentucky whiskey/bourbons didn’t play at all in that state. There is a huge amount of pride in Kentucky re: their booze (JD Single Barrel smokes Crown like a cheap Habana, while Beam would fit her current blue-collar theme)
nightjar
I’m from Kentucky and as a babe suckled Makers Mark to grow up big and strong.
Napoleon
BHO is an idiot if he does not effective declare victory tonight after HRC’s shananagens. Also he would be an idiot to let her any where near the vice-presidency.
Ted
I like pie!
MelodyMaker
Delia Says:
I love that.
Genine
That worries me sometimes. I like to think people are better than that, but its a concern sometimes. There is quite a bit of racism and it even gets to me sometimes- which is rare.
John Cole
That village voice piece singed my eyebrows, it was so god damned scathing.
cay
Although I personally agree with Napoleon, it will be interesting to see how Obama handles tonight. The “kid gloves approach” is my guess since Hillary has acted like a child ever since she didn’t get her way on Feb. 5th.
Desmond
Did anyone watch Hillary’s victory speech? According to Matthew Yglesias, it started off fairly classy and then degenerated into a typical steaming shitpile:
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/clinton_wins_kentucky.php
Chris Johnson
NO. Are you joking? Is that supposed to be funny or something? This woman’s incredible dishonesty and insane manipulativeness should disqualify her from any public office. She’s turned into everything we’ve got to get rid of in politics, and she didn’t really start out that way- I would have been thrilled to support her a year ago before she started showing all these true colors.
Obliterate Iran, my ASS.
Gas tax holiday, my ASS.
Carrying on the Bush ‘commander in chief’ tradition, my ASS.
Make her stop. What people say DOES matter, not just how they look or whether they can bullshit enough people to ‘win’ (which isn’t even going to happen, so stop trying).
By pushing racist bullshit on people who have minds of their own but are easily swayed in that direction, Hillary is making our fellow Americans WORSE for her own benefit.
Unforgivable.
Krista
I don’t blame you. I guess I’m just really, really baffled by the very idea of disliking or distrusting someone because of their ancestry, for crissakes. I really just can’t relate or understand to that mindset at all.
I like to think that maybe things will improve with coming generations, but then again, people are passing on their attitudes to their kids, so maybe my optimism is unwarranted. I just think it’s so surreal that people can have that mindset in this advanced day and age.
ThymeZone
So, if I understand the recent trends of thought, were it not for the mob of misogynists trying to destroy Clinton, she would have gotten 100% of the vote in Kentucky today?
Between Kentucky and West Virginia, it’s clear that misogynists have stood in the doorway of history yet again.
God damn it.
And yet despite the misogynist horror, Clinton continues to be the top vote getter. That’s electability — facing down the worst kind of bigotry and still winning.
Awesome.
r€nato
so, what happens to Hillary’s popular vote rhetoric if Oregon’s vote puts Obama ahead according to her campaign’ count-Florida-and-Michigan-but-not-caucus-states?
Jon H
“OR that if they could only just cut off the Willamette Valley and send if off into the sea, the remainder of the population might go for Hillary. ”
Is Agent Flowbee plotting to blow the dams?
“BWAHAHAHA! Learn to breathe water, you damned elitists!”
Krista
I don’t know. The way a select few of her supporters have been acting, I really don’t like the idea of her being a heartbeat away from the presidency. Most of her supporters are disappointed, angry, but still decent and rational human beings. But there are a few out there who really just seem to have lost the plot altogether.
Genine
I most definitely think it will change, it is changing. I am optimistic, its just this particular election I am worried about.
Most of the time- I’m fine. I talk to people all the time who won’t vote for Obama because he is black and I’m pretty zen about it. Sometimes its flat out funny because its fascinating to watch them twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain themselves.
But some days- it makes me kind of nauseous.
No worries, though. As always, I’ll get over it! :)
r€nato
isn’t Kentucky one of those small states that doesn’t count? Like WV?
Genine
Very true. In fact, some of the crazies will be even MORE incensed with Hillary being “forced into her place behind a man.”
Their minds are very scary places.
El Doh
riverdaughter over at The Confluence is all set to vote against the Dem ticket even if Hillary is veep.
There’s a bunch around pushing the “younger less qualified man picked for the job over the older, more able woman” meme, and apparently that just plays into it all the more.
I think this line if thinking is particularly popular with the “it was Hillary’s turn!” mindset though, and there’s nothing you can do with people like that. Same goes for the misandrist crowd.
I figure both groups together — and I suspect there’s a fair bit of crossover — are pretty small though.
r€nato
It doesn’t change as fast as we would like, but it is definitely changing. A black man has a better than 50% chance of winning the presidency – and his name isn’t Colin Powell, a bonky if I ever saw one.
Gay marriage or gay civil unions are legal in several states now. Can you imagine that happening 20 years ago?
Take heart. The times they are a-changin’ and as always, conservatives are on the wrong side of history.
The Other Steve
No, it’s only the states that are going to vote Republican that don’t count like Alaska and Oregon.
The Grand Panjandrum
ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!MORE MISOGYNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FROM A PROGRESSIVE!!!!!!!
Oh, snap.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Can I get a double oh, snap?
Desmond
It isn’t a job interview, it’s a fucking democratic primary. With VOTERS. The person who gets the most DELEGATES wins.
These people are seriously deranged.
Dreggas
I think they’ve surpassed the wingosphere wrt teh crazy at this point.
Conservatively Liberal
You naysayers! Hillary is going to win! She only needs 104.17% of the remaining delegates, and our girl can do it!
/ClintonistaModeOff
Warren Terra
This whole “popular vote” canard really gets to me. The thing is, it is only marginally a pro-Clinton argument. It’s primarily an avenue to defame Obama. The argument is, in its essence, that Obama’s delegate lead, though insurmountable, is illegitimate. That he’s somehow stolen the election. This, coupled with the invocation of sexism and glass ceilings, works to create enormous resentment, even hatred, of Obama among Clinton’s most fervent backers. And these narratives are coming straight from the top of the campaign.
The thing is, that anti-Obama sentiment really is the main effect of pushing these narratives. These arguments won’t convince the critical remaining unpledged superdelegates – the popular vote argument in particular is risible and insupportable, and the superdelegates are well-enough educated to know this, if only through the efforts of supporters of both candidates to inform and to sway them. They won’t convince many voters, because there aren’t many voters left and because this sort of precedural argument seems to have little effect on voters, especially this year.
But the core supporters eat this stuff up and kindle a core of rage around it. The popular vote argument, with the full encouragement of Clinton staffers right up to the Senator herself in her Kentucky victory speech, gets analogized to the 2000 General Election and Florida situations. That sort of comparison is tremendously incendiary; not many partisan Democrats have forgotten or forgiven those events. Two of the half-dozen people closest to Clinton behind her as she gave her Kentucky speech held handmade signs saying “Count Every Vote”. That sort of visual, including the Democratic slogan of Florida 2000, does not occur by happenstance in a modern major campaign event.
At this point in the campaign, with so little chance of her securing the nomination, the Clinton campaign is choosing to press its case in ways that amplify the divisions within the party and that could create enduring bitterness and sow sabotage for November. Deliberately. The situation should be called for what it is.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hey, if anyone can pull that off it’s HRC. Lying and cheating are Clinton strong suits.
El Doh
Sadly, in the past I’ve often heard it framed as a job interview. I guess some people internalized it.
I’d also disagree that he’s less qualified, but if you mention that there’s shrieks of rage and incoherence.
Yes. Well, that or trolls, liars and/or Republicans.
Soylent Green
It’s the last thing that I want, for the same reasons as you. But I flunked political calculus, the kind employed by professional politicians.
Hillary’s only sensible reason to keep distancing her followers from Obama is to demand a place on the ticket. She knows damn well it won’t be as numero uno but will do anything to get back to 1600 Penn. She knows that serving as veep will give her the inside track to the top job in 2016. Kennedy/Johnson, Obama/Clinton, same odd bedfellows with no love lost.
If that’s the ticket, expect someone to speculate that she will hire a hit on Obama at the right time so as not to have to wait eight years. Why not, she got away with killing Vince Foster, didn’t she?
Just Some Fuckhead
Obama just said it will not work because I will not let it work. So it’s on me now. I hope I’m up to the task.
Dreggas
About that post over at the village voice….wow…
Of course now the author will have to turn in her va-jay-jay at the she-woman man haters club.
Dreggas
Kos asked over at the GOS how Hillary and her people could get away with saying that she was ahead in the pop vote with a straight face.
My answer: Botox.
KRK
Oh great, he had to pick some fuckhead to do the job. Just great.
Delia
What the hell you talkin’ about? Oregon votes Dem in the generals. It’s Kentucky and probably WV that will go rethug.
Neal
Post of the month goes to Krista. Thanks, Krista.
Yes, John, that Village Voice piece was on fire. I loved it. A lot.
It takes a village, you know…
jake
OMFG is there no way to make the deluge of bullshit stop? Even for half an hour. Shit, I bet the fucking Mormons didn’t bitch 1/10th this hard when Slick Mittens didn’t get the nom.
Just Some Fuckhead
Chris was particularly good with the HRC shills this evening. I still hate the fucker but he can act like this until MSNBC shitcans him for Gregory or Maddow.
Conservatively Liberal
I will do my best, as I am sure you will. :)
Well, to some Clinton supporters, Obama supports are just some fuckheads. I can live with that. :D
TR
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was just on Hardball representing the Clinton campaign. She’s the Florida “Democrat” who wouldn’t support Democratic congressional candidates running against her Republican buddies in Florida, so I guess she’s a perfect fit for Clintonland, where Fox News has the most objective campaign coverage and Karl Rove is the wisest observer of the race.
Anyway, she was pressing the popular vote sleight-of-hand talked about above, and Matthews not only let her get away with it, but seemed to say — have to stress the seemed given the quick flow of the discussion — that if the superdelegates vote with Obama now, they’d be going against the will of the popular vote.
Oregon coming in soon, so fingers crossed for a good showing to shut this nonsense down now.
EnderWiggin
Thanks for the link Mary. That is the first time in a long while I actually felt compelled to submit something to Digg, or to email a political article to friends.
Joe1347
Hillary as VP. Not a chance. Obama needs a VP that can draw support away from McCain – not someone (Hillary) who will drive voters away from Obama and to McCain.
Daily Kos is suggesting that Al Gore would be the ideal or best VP candidate – assuming that Gore would be willing to be second banana again.
Genine
Matthews is driving me crazy with this “popular vote” shit with Hillary.
Andrew
Nah, they should just bump the EPA up to a cabinet level post like they did with the VA and make Gore Secretary of the Environment.
Just Some Fuckhead
Yeah, and write after I delivered props. And the fucker wonders why no one likes him.
Just Some Fuckhead
right, even.
That’s a hint for me.
Neal
I still don’t get this.
A) Al’s already been there, I don’t think that jives with the “Change” thing.
B) Al is too attached to one particular cause (Global Warming). A lot of people on the right already think that’s some crazy left socialist conspiracy.
I just don’t see how Al fits into this. Cabinet, sure, but not VP.
My personal choice – and one who I think is a legitimate option – is Senator Webb…but I’m biased. I really enjoyed a book he wrote on Scots-Irish heritage.
I guess that’s sort of racial, huh?
Delia
NBC called Oregon for Obama. Only 17% in but it’s 61 to 39 so far.
Delia
Okay, in Oregon Obama’s he’s got the working class, 49% of women, etc. And Pat Buchanan hates us. It’s all good.
Brachiator
In the middle of all the deception and distortion being spewed by Senator Clinton and her supporters, here is a surprisingly refreshing bit of sunshine from an unlikely source (McCain strategist keeps Obama vow, leaving campaign):
This is what some people do not understand, particularly Senator Clinton, some of her supporters, and the unfortunate people who might not vote for Obama because of his race.
There are people who, without regard to their party affiliation or ideological leanings, are looking for a way out of the morass that Bush and his cronies have pulled us into.
The sad thing is that I don’t believe that Senator Clinton would even understand the sense of honor — and hopefulness — behind McKinnon’s decision.
Andrew
It could be racist, but it could also be potato-beer-and-whisky-ist.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why is there always a Pat Buchanan or Benjamin Ginsburg shitting all over Democrats during Democratic coverage but never a corollary Democrat shitting all over Republicans during Republican coverage?
Rick Taylor
Yup.
Throwin Stones
Keith – JD – Jack Daniels? is Tennessee Whiskey. Bourbon is from Bourbon County, KY.
Neal
I like those three a lot better.
AkaDad
Liberal Media Bias™
ShouldKnowBetter
Agreed.
But they should have though it through better, or maybe had a taller person holding it. Waving a sign with the word “COUNT” emblazoned in all caps around when it’s going to be partially obscured and you’re standing behind HRC… uh… well maybe I just have a dirty mind…
Chuck Butcher
For those who buy into the argument that hicks vote Hillary, Baker City, OR voted 1041-1044 Hillary. Yep, she won by 3 votes in town. The three smaller communities with drop boxes in the county weren’t going to get theirs in until after 9 PM. At this point OR is 58-42 Obama.
KRK
Heh.
In his speech in Iowa tonight Obama said “…Change is an energy policy that doesn’t rely on buddying up to the Saudi royal family and then begging them for oil….”
Heh.
Ninerdave
Because it’s been all dems all the time since Feb. Rachel will do you right in the general.
Jon H
Hillary’s campaign has officially begun to mirror her marriage. She’s just going through the motions now in hope of getting *something* out of it.
Jon H
I’ve seen some people wondering why Obama lost his ‘base’ of young, educated people in WV and KY.
I would guess that’s probably because a lot of the likely Obama voters in those demographics no longer live in WV or KY, having moved away to locales that better suit their economic or cultural interests.
TenguPhule
Because Republicans breed in shit.
KRK
Since John has declared Clinton fair game again, I’ll pass on this comment I saw at americablog that made me laugh. The comment is on a post asking how Clinton can say with a straight face that the votes in Iowa, Maine, Washington, and Nevada shouldn’t be tallied in her “winning” metric:
“I did not have electoral relations with those states.”
Jeff
Alright, this is great… Clinton may have outright lied by a SUBSTANTIAL amount about how much she raised after her PA win:
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M5/C00431569/A_DATE_C00431569.html
Not sure how the 9.5M at the end of the month works… maybe a personal loan, I have no clue.. but around the PA primary (April 22), she didn’t come anywhere close to raising $10M.
Just to make sure that these numbers weren’t missing some huge thing, I totaled them up in a table and they come out to about $21M, roughly what their press release from earlier said. That means that whatever was claimed around those dates should be the actual numbers raised. This needs an immediate explanation as to why what everyone on her campaign was enthusiastically touting (having raised $10M in 24 hours) doesn’t appear to be true. Is there something else I’m missing here?
Adam
No, Hillary won them, so like California and New York they are now states that matter in the general election. Do you even know how often Republicans lose when they can’t win Kentucky? Seriously, it’s like, really important. You guys should read more history.
Conservatively Liberal
The one thing Ronald Reagan and Nancy did right was have Ron. I bet he was a thorn in his Dad’s side at times. That line you quote is pure Ron…lol!
Gotta love the guy, but he needs to get out of the dog shows and into commentary more. He is worth listening to.
Jeff
Alright, apparently the $9.5M at the end of the month is bundling up all the sub $200 donations (at least, that’s what I’ve read elsewhere). So, if about $8M is from April 22-23, the claim could be true. I think at some point around then, some data was published about where the money came from (ie, average donation, percent coming from under $200, etc). I’m too lazy to dig it out right now, but maybe someone else can and we can verify whether Clinton may have actually raised the $10M in 24 hours.
Delia
How can you snark about Hillary? She is the SUN GODDESS, I tell you, the veritable SUN GODDESS. You should build altars to her in your living rooms in front of the teevee sets with candles and incense and everything and WORSHIP HER, THANKING HER UPON BENDED KNEES FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF LIVING IN HER TIME. Instead these apostates would deny her the bounty of her Michigan and Florida votes and annoy her with these pesky little states that don’t count and whose citizens need to be sent to reeducation camps anyhow.
So go build your altars to the DIVINE HILLARY and beg her forgiveness for your many sins and then go call Obama supporters on the telephone and bug them until they hang up on you.
Um, thank you and good night.
Josh E.
Uh Oh. Armando’s on to you John! You and your one-liners are so stooopid!! Hillary won California you jerk!
Ninerdave
He’s just trying up his page views since most of the Hillbots have either tuned out or offed themselves.
John Cole
I will just ignore him. I would hate for him to say something stupid, violate the quasi-Stasi rules at Talk Left, and end up having to ban himself again.
Conservatively Liberal
BTD (Bloviating Tiresome Dickhead) has to knock it up a notch because his traffic is depressed (in more ways than one).
BethanyAnne
Jeff,
Looks like that story is getting out. I posted a link to the report on TalkHillary, which will either get them to explain it, or get me banned. Probably the second. But I did also see a story at the GOS, so I expect several explanations will be floating out there by tomorrow.
And, yeah, I noticed that Armando posted something about Appalachia and the quote. Texas was on his list. Did Hillary win there or something? Last time I checked, she lost. Maybe Armando’s Roolz say that only the Texas primary counts?
Wonder if I can get that brave pilot from Tuzla to fly me to those goalposts? I think they are moving too fast for me to catch any other way…
Bethany
Jonesy
I love how now the people that voted for Hillary are either racist or un-educated. Thats the message I got from MSNBHO tonight. Theyre almost as bad as the blogosphere.
I think this could be a real problem for Obama too. His own supporters are his worst enemy. People may just vote for McCain not so Obama doesnt win, but so his arrogant supporters dont. Maybe thats what theyre doing now by voting for Hillary.
Conservatively Liberal
The kool aid at Hillaryis44 must be loaded with PCP:
(Note: Comments in [ ] are mine)
They are certifiably insane over there, no doubt. The collective IQ of that place has to be that of a turd (probably less).
El Doh
By saying that, you do grave disservice to a lot of Hillary’s supporters, many of whom are extremely passionate about their candidate.
r€nato
I think that is a fucking brilliant course of action. Put McCain in office so that he can appoint a couple more far-right SC justices; continue the war in Iraq forever, continue all the failed policies of Bush, right when the Democrats could not possibly ask for a more favorable electoral atmosphere. That’ll show those cocky Obama bastards!
No, wait. That’s not fucking brilliant; that’s the stupidest fucking thing I’ve heard since the idea that one should vote for the presidential candidate with which one would like to have a beer.
El Doh
Universal was banned from MyDD for a video he made conflating Obama with 9/11, with the planes hitting the twin towers in time to a raucous soundtrack. The title was something about “how Hillary can win this election in two minutes”.
I couldn’t stomach the whole video, but I saw enough of it to know that he’s pure class.
El Doh
The current logic for the Hillary-or-bust (does that make me sexist?) crowd is “there will be a Dem Senate, they’ll block any such justices”, and that “McCain is the lesser of two evils”.
I’ve yet to see any explain how McCain’s more and bigger wars, and constant vetoing of good legislation is a good thing, but then I tend towards the rational.
Conservatively Liberal
Sad as it is to say, anyone who thinks that race did not play in to the results of WV and KY is nuts. Less so in WV than in KY, IMO, but it was still a big factor.
Just come out and say it. Go ahead, you know you are dying to but instead you have to hide it in your message.
They won’t vote for him because he is black and they are racist.
Gotcha. Of course, to arrive at your conclusion you have to ignore the fact that Obama and Hillary are neck and neck (popular vote totals) in a race that has brought out voters in record numbers, while the Republicans are barely mustering their base. Some of the Hillary voters will not vote for Obama, but the numbers favor a Democratic win this fall. If your candidate does not figure out that she is going to be a spoiler (unless that is her intention), she could damage him this fall (she already has to some degree).
Your problem is that the racists have distilled down to areas of the country so that they will have a minimal impact on the general election, so your analysis, while true for states like WV and KY, just does not hold water.
Either way, I would put Obama up against your candidate any day. Oh, that’s right, we did and your candidate lost.
Now what were you saying? Popular vote lead? When you can find a metric to count the caucus states, get back to me. That is unless you want to disenfranchise a bunch of states who followed the rules and have a right to be counted, regardless of how they held their election.
Obama has an insurmountable pledged delegate lead, and he only needs 64 more delegates to pass the total delegate threshold (as it stands now without MI & FL). Hillary needs almost four time that number (246) of delegates to win. If she takes it to the convention, he has the pledged delegate lead and he gets to control much of what happens at the convention.
This has been over for some time now, but Hillary and her Grand Illusion Tour are living in their own universe now. Reality is not welcome.
Conservatively Liberal
Universal is a GOP/RP ratfucker, and he is leading those ‘morans’ off of a cliff. Luckily, Hillaryis44 has become pretty much an echo chamber of horrors now.
kilo
Ah, now I understand Universal – he’s fueled by steroid rage! His sig at H44 links to his personal sports site pushing his “Pump Juice” product.
Extra bonus: you can watch him ranting into his webcam about how unfair it is that some handicapped guy (Oscar Pistorius) can beat some of the able-bodied in a 200m footrace. If you mentally substitute Obama for Oscar, it’s his same ol’ song.
There’s a psychology paper in there somewhere…
Lupin
This is what I posted earlier on TalkLeft:
I think Clinton’s results in both KY and OR were very impressive. I had her wining 33 delegates in KY when in actuality she got 37, which shows how bad of a predictor I am.
However, DemConWatch calls it right: “Obama clinches non-MI/FL pledged delegate majority (and most MI/FL scenarios also)” — there is only one scenario out of five, if the FL & MI delegations are seated based on the elections that have taken place, in which the nomination isn’t clinched, and we all know that it isn’t going to happen.
Both Clinton’s and Obama’s platforms are substantially similar (I’m not crazy about either but that’s another discussion); however, this drawn out primary has shown that there is a serious rift (for lack of a better word) between their respective supporters. It is not altogether just sexism or racism; there are different worldviews too.
(Need I remind folks here that neither Obama nor Clinton were my #1 or #2 choice initially.)
The reason why it is important that we close that rift is that, someday, there will be an Iraq War memorial just as there is a Viet-Nam War memorial, and if McCain is elected President — and after 2004 nothing strikes me as impossible anymore — that Memorial will have many more names inscribed on it.
Many more young Americans will die if McCain is elected than if a Democrat, any Democrat, is. It’s that simple.
It is criminal, yes, criminal to risk the election because there is justifiable anger towards the other candidate, his surrogates, the DNC and the media. There are lives at stake.
Senator Clinton has gathered a large and dedicated and real support for her and I would like to see her continue to play a major role in this campaign and in national politics beyond — and I have no doubt that she will, because she always struck me as a dedicated and pragmatic woman.
Jeralyn’s photo is one of hope for a better future which reflects our values; I appeal to the sensible posters here to continue to support Sen. Clinton (just as I will always support Gov. Dean, Al Gore or John Edwards) but to not reject the promise of that future out of bitterness.
I would hope that Jeralyn will eventually post an editorial in which she states that one can continue to support Sen. Clinton and her goals without rejecting Sen. Obama.
El Doh
Makes sense, I guess. I only “know” him via that video, and his subsequent banning. At the same time they banned a bunch of other people who’d crossed various lines, some of whom were subsequently reinstated due to the amount of kicking, screaming, wailing and gnashing of teeth that was taking place.
Conservatively Liberal
Knowing him, he probably hand filled the containers with his own personal brand of ‘Pump Juice’.
His brother is the king of internet startup failures that he has padded his bio with (you should see his video clips on the housing bubble, they are really sad. I mean sad.) and a failed ‘Loyalty’ coupon book service, among his many other other failures) and they are both despised at SportsJournalists.com (he posts there as “RokSki”, his brother as John D. Villarreal) so much that they were basically run off there late last year and have not returned.
Universal posts so muchevery day that he probably does not have a job. From what I understand, he still lives in PA with their parents, so more than likely no job. He has to be one of the most prolific posters I have ever seen online, and much of it is drivel about how great he and his brother with the IQ of ‘174’ are.
In other words, they are in love with the sound of their own voices, and everyone else pretty much can’t stand to read or listen to them.
But now he has found his adoring crowd. He is in his element, so to say.
Adam
Hmm. That “MSNBHO” comment above is, I think, a joke. (If it’s not a joke, it’s at least fucking idiotic for making the “Hussein” jab at Obama while complaining about media accusations of racism.)
But there is something interesting to say about it. For perhaps the millionth time, it must be true that at least some of the people who voted for Hillary were racists and that some of the people who voted for Obama were sexists, but there’s simply no reason that we should care about them. Seriously.
There is zero reason that the Obama campaign or Obama’s supporters should held accountable for what Russert or Matthews have to say about Kentucky. Who cares? Despite all the thunder from Clinton supporters about how useless the media is, they sure seem to put a lot of stock in what the media says. Why does it matter? It certainly doesn’t matter to me anymore and I’ve pretty much stopped listening to all of it on both sides, just like I stopped giving a shit about the hyperventilating over Obama and Wright. It’s nonsense, we all know it’s nonsense — even though some people will care about it despite anything we could ever do — end of story.
No one’s forcing you to project what the media says onto all Obama supporters as their universally-held belief, but if that sort of facile idiocy is what lets you sleep at night after you decide to pull the lever for John McCain, I doubt anything I or anyone else can say will change your mind. But if you’re at that point, at least stop complaining to us about something that we intrinsically have no ability to defend. Just make up your mind and live with it.
Here’s a much simpler explanation and narrative that I’m adopting as of now: Clinton fought hard, and lost. That’s all. I don’t say that with rancor, gloating, or disrespect. It is what it is. Shit happened, but it’s done with now. The race is now over and Clinton lost, just like Edwards, Dodd, Kucinich, and all the other perfectly respectable candidates lost.
So, now, Clinton supporters: please stop projecting all this hatred onto the other side and please stop repeating the spin — you may be surprised to learn that most Obama supporters are not, in fact, misogynists, much like not all Appalachian Democrats are racists — and let’s just talk about what to do in November. It’s really that easy. If you want to move forward, let’s move forward. Stop accusing people of sexism going one direction and stop complaining about the accusations of racism going the other direction and roll up your sleeves and show everyone your much-vaunted dedication.
Really, if all it takes is the MSNBC punditry talking about racism in Appalachia to convince you to take your ball and go home, you’ve actually got pretty thin skin, despite what you may claim. Any election requires more fortitude than that, and this one will in particular. (As the Clinton campaign has frequently suggested, it may be somewhat difficult.) There’s little that Obama or his supporters can do for you at this point except ask you to help. He can’t un-win. So it’s really up to you to prove the pundits wrong. Good luck.
Conservatively Liberal
It is not a joke, they use crap acronyms like that all of the time. Here is a whiner at Kos getting ridiculed for asking if MSNBC is going to endorse Obama since they favor Obama over Clinton (in the opinion of the
diaristwhiner). At least the posters at Kos get to have fun at the whiners expense when they do crap like this.electroglodyte
Never forget that when they include the Michigan popular vote, they only count Clinton votes and pretend there are no Obama voters in MI.
Chuck Butcher
E OR may hold some surprises, Baker, Union, Grant, Gilliam, Wallowa, Wasco counties all went Obama. This is “out there” country folks. Baker Co is an example, 16K pop, 5.5 per sq mi, median income $31.4K versus US of $44.5K. Do you suppose this is blue collar white? I have the county break down posted for the State as of 12:27AM.
Adam
Shrug. It’s either tongue-in-cheek idiocy or it’s sincere idiocy. Either way, it’s nonsense; the disclaimer was because the original version of my reply actually took the comment kind of seriously before I realized that it wasn’t really serious at all, or at least not worth treating that way.
Adam
WOW.
Speaking as an Oregon native, that is… insane. Eastern Oregon isn’t just blue-collar, it’s for all intents and purposes a colony of Idaho.
That’s really nuts.
It’s been too easy to forget that Obama has outperformed Clinton in essentially every “white, working-class” area outside of Appalachia — e.g. Idaho, the Midwest, etc. The patterns aren’t racial or economic, they’re regional.
Conservatively Liberal
That, and they skip counting some caucus states, which I find odd because in their insistence on counting every vote in two states they are willing to throw out the results of at least five states.
I know that some Hillary supporters are supposed to be ‘low information voters’, but people using this line of thought are just plain stupid. No other way about it, dumb as a sack of hammers but less useful. In reading the posts of the typical Hillary Hardliner, it is clear that many of their discussions are like that. They have tunnel vision of the worst sort, and they refuse to look around to try and get a grip on reality. Facts are not useful unless they can be spun in some desperate attempt to find a way for Hillary to win. And if that is not possible, some of them are ready to put McCain to their heads and pull the trigger.
The sooner this is over, the better. But I have this creeping premonition that Hillary is going to go to the convention and if she does then this will be 1968 or 1980 all over again, but probably a hundred times worse. Hillary’s Hardliners (and the rats among them) are an infection that will only spread the longer they fester, and we are looking at a probable disaster if this goes to the convention contested.
I hope not, but I did say back in January that Hillary was going to go overboard if she started losing (boy was I derided for saying that, but I was right on target).
Well, the primary contests are almost over, so we will see what happens after the big meet on the 31st and after the last two states and PR vote.
Chuck Butcher
No, we’re not a colony of ID and don’t want to be. You could piss me off with that kind of talk. We also are not the left side of the state. Republicans also outnumber us Democrats.
I know OR 2CD alot better than most people. google is your friend…
Googootz
The Clintons must not be allowed back in any adminstration under any circumstances. With Clinton as VP, it would only be a matter of time before the president is found in his study with a bullet hole in the back of his head and a suicide note.
Think that’s too tin-foil? Reality has gone off the rails for the last seven years. It’s like there’s been a glitch in the Matrix. Any crazy thing is possible.
I hope saner minds prevail and the VP slot goes to Bill Richardson or John Edwards. Or perhaps someone who isn’t even on the pundit radar yet.
Bedlam UK
Quick question; was reading Hillarys Kentucky speach and read this:
“…it’s often been said, as Kentucky goes, so goes the nation.”
I’m curious how many states she has attributed to winning the White House. Seems every State is the state that Leads the way – The way to the White House runs through Pennsylvania etc.
Just seemed to be an open statement that she inserts the name of the state she’s currently standing in.
Oh, and liked this:
“That’s why I’m going to keep making our case until we have a nominee, whoever SHE may be.”
LOL.
Not a Hillary Bash, just a funny observation.
Wilfred
20% of voters in Kentucky said race was a factor in their vote and 90% of those people voted for Clinton. Anderson Cooper pointed out that 20% was how many admitted to a total stranger that they were racists, imagine how many more.
I watched David Gergen try to deal with his own shock at this fact while everybody else sort of stared at their feet and looked embarrassed. It’s a goddamned disgrace and no one wants to talk about it.
The biggest disgrace of all is Clinton – she begged for the ‘stop the nigger’ vote and she got it. As Gergen pointed out she had all the opportunity in the world to denounce that kind of vote, to say it had no place in American politics but instead she gloried in the result.
Ross Perot said “If you’re a racist or a bigot I don’t want your vote”. That’s what Clinton should have said.
cleek
Hillary and her husband would be far too much of a shiny distraction for the press. they’d dominate the news with petty media-driven pseudo-scandals.
Adam
Please. You grow even more potatoes than they do.
Shrug. It’s not intended as an insult (more of a light-hearted joke which obviously hit about where I intended it to), but as you say–
–which is correct. Eastern Oregon has a hell of a lot more in common with Idaho politically than it does with Eugene or Portland, and that’s a fact, Jack. No one’s asking you whether you agree with it. (Though it does seem that you do.)
Congratulations? I, too, know Eastern Oregon better than most, and I’m not sure what it is that you’re disputing.
Sorry for stepping on your state pride, I guess — I’d figured that being a Democrat out there you’d have thicker skin over some ribbing about Idaho; it’s not that hard to tell the difference, so lighten up. I assure you that there are worse places to be a fish out of water.
Adam
Also, just to be clear, I’m from 2CD, so you can take your condescension elsewhere, thanks. You flatlander.
Conservatively Liberal
I ran Hillaryis44 through the blog Cuss-O-Meter and it returned a 100% rating.
No! Really?! Go figure.
Since the average at the Cuss-O-Meter is 9%, I would say that Hillaryis44 are right in thinking that they are above average…lol!
Taylor Marsh returns a 23.6% rating.
hillaryclinton.com returns a 0.1% rating.
Talk Left returns a 0.2% rating.
barackobama.com returns a 0.3% rating.
MyDD.com returns a 0.9% rating.
I just ran Balloon Juice through it and it returned a rating of 0%. Now that is funny!
Maybe it’s a ratfucker meter?
cleek
i bet the average is 9% because it gives so many 0s. i couldn’t get it to give my blog anything but a 0.
i suspect it’s not even finding the site.
Adam
Oh, you’re in Baker City, not Pendleton — a mountain dweller, not a flatlander. Still a potato-sympathizer, though.
Conservatively Liberal
What is sad is that most of those types revel in their racism, and are proud to show the rest of the nation that they do at times like this. What they don’t realize is that in the times we are now in, it only shows how behind everyone else that they are, and in doing so it exposes them for what they really are. It is an embarrassment to our nation for the rest of the world to see.
It is shameful that Hillary went that route with the ‘poor white voter’ bullshit. She has done some pretty rotten things in this election, but her blatantly playing the race card and then claiming that she was just quoting an article was over the line. That is something that most people will never forgive her for. She boldly ‘went there’ without hesitation, and she is sucking it up for everything that it is worth all in an attempt to realize her dream.
But she doubled down on her callow behavior and when asked last weekend if she felt that was any racism in the campaign so far, she said ‘no’. Right before that she was whining that there sexism in the campaign, and since it was being ignored by everyone then it must be because it must be more acceptable.
She is full of crap, and I hope that after this is over that her and her husband slink back into the woodwork and disappear. The damage she has done to her and her husbands legacy in the party is done, and there is no going back for most of the people that they have offended.
I know my opinion of them has been forever changed, and I am sure many other people feel the same way.
D-Chance.
Gore ate the second banana… and the third… and the fourth… and the Nilla wafers and meringue that went with them.
D-Chance.
What Republican coverage? It’s been all-Democrats all-the-time for the last 3 months. You can’t get more lopsided in favor of one party over another in press coverage than what the Dems have gotten from the MSM over the last 90 day period.
Conservatively Liberal
To bolster what I said about Hillary claiming that sexism is the problem in the campaign, not race:
Quote from The New York Times: Clinton Sees Many Reasons to Stay In
By Patrick Healy
Rather, in private conversations and in interviews, Mrs. Clinton has begun asserting that she believes sexism, rather than racism, has cast a shadow over the primary fight, a point some of her supporters have made for months.
As I said above…
Adam
Holy shit. Hillary’s $31M in debt? That… seems like a little bit too much. Doesn’t this start to create serious conflicts of interest at some point?
Anonymous visitor from Sadly,No!
Hillary’s campaign has officially begun to mirror
her marriagethe time she dropped a diamond ring down the toilet. She’s just going through the motions now in hope of getting something out of it.Fixed, as the kids say.
cleek
well, except for the brief period from 2002 through mid-2006, when it was all-GOP, all the time.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
You would think that at some point, Senator Clinton will look in the mirror and find Jesse Jackson staring back.
Xenos
Clinton has committed the unforgiveable sin, for a Democrat, of allowing the crypto-racists to come out of the closet. She has given them license to do so, and this sort of shit-eating white-pride ‘we are the real Americans’ language is the result. These people used to be ashamed of their racism (if they were not ashamed, they would be Republicans), and now they are proud of it.
A sizeable population that were not in any way prepared to vote for McCain are now going to do so out of pride.
Four more years of the GOP could spell the end of this country. Thanks, Clinton. I am so happy that you may have financially ruined yourself as a side effect.
libarbarian
And Lincoln said “If you are a racist I will attack you with the North”.
nightjar
Just watched a fascinating segment on MSNBC (hey, a broke clock is right twice a day) where it seems the much concern trolled Clinton voter defection to Mccain if HC isn’t the nominee is bogus. It seems roughly the same number of dems in Kentucky ended up voting for Bush in 2004.
Jamey
Can we please add “Rovian” to the list of phrases to be “thrown under the bus”?
Dan
Holy shit! Hillaryis44, right now, right on their front page has a diary headlined – GOD DAMN MICHELLE OBAMA.
sparky
a suggestion: perhaps this is all smoke and mirrors for some other purpose, perhaps saving a power base in the party, on HRC’s part. this is starting to remind me of two lawyers being blowhards just before they settle. in other words, this trash talk is just to keep a public bargaining chip not a real indicator of what the Clintons are up to. they aren’t stupid, they know the score, and so perhaps this race-baiting and whatnot is just to maximize whatever deal they are thinking of cooking up with Obama. and for that purpose her behaviour is useful because it maximizes the internal weight she can throw around during negotiations. think Hillaryland as a large state, like Cali, when it was owned by Hearst, and you get the idea.
shorter me: HRC isn’t trying to win; she’s trying to keep her hands on the levers of the party machinery.
Mary
Adam, that LA Times blog has corrected their calculations. Her debt is closer to $20 million. Still, that’s one hell of a load.
Wilfred
I’ve argued the same thing. Her loss is a repudiation of the DLC and the promise of a new deck of cards being opened in Democratic circles. The problem for the usual suspects is that they don’t know who the new players in Washington will be and how power will be re-organized; this after 16 years of Clintoncentric politics within the Democratic party.
cleek
a.k.a. “blackmail”
give her what she wants or she’ll make no effort to diffuse the seething lunacy she’s engendered in her base.
Jimbo62
Now if she were trying to convince people in West Virginia and Kentucky of these numbers, she may have a chance. But unfortunately for her, democratic party leaders for the most part, aren’t that stupid. It’s become so comical, it’s like we are in a twilight zone or bizarro world. She has tried to play to the ignorant masses…..generally republicans……with the NAFTA tactics, the “as far as I know he isn’t a muslim” tactics, the “it took a white man to pass the civil rights laws” tactics, the “hard-working, white Americans (Uh, only americans can vote in america) tactics, the MSM wrecked it all for me tactics…….geez, I think I will write a book about her campaign and file it under comedy.
Dreggas
You know, people say HRC is not stupid and while I agree I would point out that arrogance, pride, and ambition cloud people’s minds to the point where they do, do stupid things like staying in a race they can’t win and going straight into the gutter. She may not be stupid and bill may not be stupid but their pride, arrogance and ambition know no bounds.
Grumpy Code Monkey
No Quarter is likening Hillary to EVA FUCKING PERÓN?! Are you shitting me? Or is this wicked satire and I’m just too dumb to recognize it?
Xenos
Maybe I have been watching way too much MSNBC, but the current head of the DLC, Harold Ford, has been playing it right down the middle and has frank about the electoral possibilities. Makes me wonder how much power Bill and Hill still hold over the DLC as an organization.
sparky
i should have added that, perhaps like Rove, who unleashed something that he ended up being unable to control, HRC has unmasked and unshackled the reactionary faction in the party. it may be that she can keep a leash on it, but if i was her (shudder) i’d be very careful about holding power through negativity this way.
also, i would think that the DLC folks expect to be purged when Obama wins, so there’s no professional incentive for them to avoid cratering the party if they can’t keep it. after all, it’s not about idealism here: it’s a paycheck.
SamFromUtah
The problem for the usual suspects is that they don’t know who the new players in Washington will be and how power will be re-organized; this after 16 years of Clintoncentric politics within the Democratic party.
Sixteen years, wow. It seems like only yesterday that Bill Clinton was the sparkly new outsider that had the Village’s skivvies all in a wad. And they were still screeching about him well into Bush’s tenure.
Jon H
I wonder how much time Bill will be spending in that fancy Harlem office of his, once this is all over.
Tax Analyst
Chuck, I’m really not that surprised. In an ORDINARY election year I think Obama might have had a problem getting these folks to consider him, but this is no ordinary election year. A whole lot of people are in a whole lot of deep doo-doo and they have really started to realize it. That makes it a good time for them to consider getting past some of their long-held parochial biases and take stock of how critical it is for this country to get put back on the right track again.
I don’t think most small-town or rural folks are stupid and I don’t think most of them are foolish enough to tie their futures to the fruits of racism…it doesn’t take initials after your name or an Ivy League education to see the eventual futility of dancing with Jim Crow.
You don’t have to want a black guy to marry your daughter to be able to take a look at the candidates and figure out that Obama is by far the sharpest pencil in your day-pack and that he’s far more interested in the well-being of the every day people of this country than HRC or John McCain. Just LISTEN and compare how the candidates discuss the issues. It doesn’t take much more than common sense to be able to tell who’s pandering & posturing and who is actually looking for viable solutions.
And those solutions don’t likely include a “Gas Tax Holiday”, nuking Iran, or sleeping next to your telephone waiting for that 3am call.
Hypatia
Gore was far more than a ‘show-horse and seat warmer,’ although obviously he wasn’t the actual co-President, unlike the office’s current occupant. Gore’s status would be welcomed by any Vice-Presidential candidate – he was by far the most important VP before Cheney.
jim
The Sun-Goddess/Eva Peron thing is just full-bore bugfuck crazy. Can “The Quotations Of Chairman Hillary” be far behind?
Went to TalkLeft … “the politics of crime” is right. As is the comment about staring into the face of madness – this really is just a big game to them, & no amount of rationalization is ever too much. Nor is any form of gaming the system ever beneath them, to judge from the comments. It’s as if the last 8 years never happened. I see willful blindness to just how creepy & out-of-date their “strategy” is at this point: Michigan magically counts now, as does Florida – & the rules HRC agreed to go can now down the toilet, as soon as she realizes that with enough of her supporters stamping their feet & pouting, she can use the rulebook for toilet-paper & get away with it. A stronger party would’ve kicked her out the moment she made that play, & told her never to return – you opt to ignore the rules that you swore to abide by, so you get disqualified, because the job is too important to go to a cheater.
Playing the race-card for votes is the cherry on the Stupid Sundae – this is 2008, not 1948. Works great in a few Appalachian states for primaries, but is a real H-Bomb come General Election time, because you just can’t make it un-happen. “Every vote counts” sure is quite a change from “unimportant states” a few months back, too.
Is she trying to out-flipflop McCain?
Mission (almost) Accomplished.