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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / James Baker, Dovish Appeaser And Hater of All Things Military, Masculine, and ‘Murrican

James Baker, Dovish Appeaser And Hater of All Things Military, Masculine, and ‘Murrican

by John Cole|  May 21, 200811:15 am| 40 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, Excellent Links

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Via Sullivan, this shocking display of appeasement:

Obama is cleaning their clocks on this issue, and McCain would do himself a real service to stop taking advice from small men and internet tough guys who think AM radio show hosts are deep-thinkers.

PS- It would be wise to remember Baker’s nickname.

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Previous Post: « We’ll Be Greeted as Liberators, 2008 Edition
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40Comments

  1. 1.

    Billy K

    May 21, 2008 at 11:22 am

    What was it again Chamberlain did in 1938….?

  2. 2.

    RampantSexism

    May 21, 2008 at 11:25 am

    McCain would do himself a real service to stop taking advice from small men and internet tough guys who think AM radio show hosts are deep-thinkers.

    Luckily for Democrats, he won’t.

  3. 3.

    John S.

    May 21, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Totally off-topic, but did anyone catch Morning Edition on NPR?

    They were interviewing a Hillary supporter in Kentucky who was just gushing about the awesomeness of her victory and how she’s going to the White House, etc. when the interviewer asked, “Given that she is behind in pledged delegates, super-delegates and popular vote, how will she win the nomination exactly?”

    To which the woman responded, “Uh… I can’t really answer that question… but I think she’s going to win!”

    There is your low-information, personality cult Hillbot in a nutshell.

  4. 4.

    cleek

    May 21, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Totally off-topic, but did anyone catch Morning Edition on NPR?

    yeah, i even stayed in my car to hear the end of that segment.

    it’s nice to see that the press is now fully aware of the fact that Hillary has no plausible mechanism for winning.

  5. 5.

    Ninerdave

    May 21, 2008 at 11:33 am

    You know what really chaps my hide and twists my nipples?

    When the right-wing takes a word (in this case appeasement) redefines it leaving no part of the original definition intact(in this case giving into demands of an ememy), then smears it around like diarrhea all over public discourse.

    Patriotism, Freedom, Traitor, are although such words. I never thought I’d cringe when I heard the word Freedom, but ever time it comes out of Bush or some other wingnut’s mouth it’s like nails on a chalk board and I find myself wanting to punch babies and kittens.

  6. 6.

    Ninerdave

    May 21, 2008 at 11:34 am

    …oh and good for Baker, for not following the talking point of the day.

  7. 7.

    EnderWiggin

    May 21, 2008 at 11:34 am

    How do these guys manage to handle the fact that Reagan was negotiating and meeting with Gorbachev for most of his administration, even while still fighting the Cold War and calling the USSR the “Evil Empire”. Was Reagan a sill lefty appeaser also?

  8. 8.

    Zifnab

    May 21, 2008 at 11:37 am

    What was it again Chamberlain did in 1938….?

    It was appeasemen… he was appeasing. He appeased Hitler. There was appeasement going on. The Nazis got appeased. Appeasement.

    McCain would do himself a real service to stop taking advice from small men and internet tough guys who think AM radio show hosts are deep-thinkers.

    I don’t know if you’ve forgotten, but this is what the Wingnuts think of Baker. McCain’s blissful, hazy “Victory in 2013” speech is his platform for 2008. He’s playing Delusional to Obama’s Hopeful, and running on “Stay the Course” in the face of Obama’s “Change” message. He can’t run on anything else, because his base would desert him otherwise.

    He’s trapped. He can’t abandon his base and play Democrat-Lite in the face of Obama as the nominee. He has to fund-raise from somewhere.

  9. 9.

    Billy K

    May 21, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Was Reagan a sill lefty appeaser also?

    Reagan has more in common with Obama than Bush (43).

  10. 10.

    dr. bloor

    May 21, 2008 at 11:41 am

    I actually remember that Baker segment, and it struck me as stating the obvious at the time. The McCain approach so far isn’t so remarkable for its “plain talk” or even plain mean-spiritedness as much as its mind-numbing stupidity.

  11. 11.

    Jorge

    May 21, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Hagel did a great job of calling McCain out on this issue.

    McCain should do a press conference and say, “Forget anything ever said on any issue ever. Starting today, I am going to outline what I really believe and feel. First thing first – I’m going to hire a boatload of lobbyist. They have money and know how to get thing done. Second – George W. Bush is an idiot. I hate him. He completely screwed up the Iraq war, but I really do believe that I can salvage the turd he’s left us. Third – Republicans need to get their heads out of their butts about the environment and global warming. I love Jesus and his mother as much as the next guy and cleaning up the world for future generations is in line with his teachings, not against them.”

  12. 12.

    Neal

    May 21, 2008 at 11:43 am

    You know what really chaps my hide and twists my nipples?

    When the right-wing takes a word (in this case appeasement) redefines it leaving no part of the original definition intact(in this case giving into demands of an ememy), then smears it around like diarrhea all over public discourse.

    Patriotism, Freedom, Traitor, are although such words. I never thought I’d cringe when I heard the word Freedom, but ever time it comes out of Bush or some other wingnut’s mouth it’s like nails on a chalk board and I find myself wanting to punch babies and kittens.

    Agreed.

    Very enjoyable post, BTW.

  13. 13.

    Dreggas

    May 21, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Ninerdave Says:

    You know what really chaps my hide and twists my nipples?

    A flogger and some nipple clamps?

  14. 14.

    Dreggas

    May 21, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Jorge Says:

    Hagel did a great job of calling McCain out on this issue.

    Yeah I was reading how Hagel was smacking McCain over this stuff and praising Obama.

  15. 15.

    David Hunt

    May 21, 2008 at 11:47 am

    How do these guys manage to handle the fact that Reagan was negotiating and meeting with Gorbachev for most of his administration, even while still fighting the Cold War and calling the USSR the “Evil Empire”. Was Reagan a sill lefty appeaser also?

    The short answer is “yes.” Reagan caught lots of grief from the Right for not going full-guns against the Soviets and getting us into a nuclear war. On the other hand, I remember criticisms from saner people about how he didn’t meet with the Soviet leader enough. I think the rebuttal to could be summed up as “these guys have the approximate lifespan of a Spinal Tap Drummer. I’ll meet with one that lasts longer than a mayfly.”

  16. 16.

    TenguPhule

    May 21, 2008 at 11:48 am

    McCain would do himself a real service to stop taking advice from small men and internet tough guys who think AM radio show hosts are deep-thinkers.

    Four more beers!

  17. 17.

    Dennis - SGMM

    May 21, 2008 at 11:49 am

    For Republicans, History (Like Economics) isn’t a body of knowledge informed by intellectual rigor, it’s something to cherry pick for slogans. The wild inappropriateness of Bush’s “appeasement” analogy is just the most recent example. Actual history, like actual knowledge, just gets in their way.
    The history of the catastrophe in Iraq has in no way deterred many Republicans from wanting to make war on Iran. History, for them, begins when they take their first shit of the day and ends when they drink themselves to sleep.

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    May 21, 2008 at 11:51 am

    For Republicans, History (Like Economics) isn’t a body of knowledge informed by intellectual rigor, it’s something to cherry pick for slogans. They make up as the go along.

    Fixed.

  19. 19.

    Wilfred

    May 21, 2008 at 11:58 am

    I thought peace was only true in fairy tales
    Meant for someone else but not for us.
    They were out to get us
    That’s the way it seemed.
    Pissed my pants and haunted all my dreams.

    Then I got some sense, now I’m an appeaser!
    Not a trace of hate in my mind.
    I’m a wimp, I’m an appeaser!
    I couldn’t fight them if I tried.

    I thought war was more or less a given thing,
    Seems the more I gave the less I got.
    What’s the use in tryin’?
    All you get is pain.
    When I needed Gandhi I got McCain.

    Then I got some sense, now I’m an appeaser
    Not a trace of hate in my mind.
    I’m at peace, I’m an appeaser!
    I couldn’t fight them if I tried.

  20. 20.

    sparky

    May 21, 2008 at 11:59 am

    i still think one of the great ironies of the late American epoch (post 1989) is the right’s co-optation of the left’s rhetorical strategies.

    i suppose the next move will be to co-opt identity politics….

  21. 21.

    dAVE

    May 21, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Yes indeed, you see us libruls and Democrats and now the “mom AND dad” party and the Republicans are the “crazy old uncle we don’t let out in public” party. I suppose this talking to = appeasing meme should be expected seeing how GW’s attitude on compromise has been to whine about the Democrat party not giving him exactly what he wants. I swear putting an “R” behind your name now means “I’ve lost all common sense and become an unhinged nut job.”

  22. 22.

    Napoleon

    May 21, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    …oh and good for Baker, for not following the talking point of the day.

    Did anyone see him on that PBS show on Bush the elder (aka the sane Bush)? I wish I could remember the exact quote, but one part talked about how they took shit for not going to Bagdad during the first Gulf War and he said something like “I don’t hear about it anymore.” It was a kick to the groin of the modern Republican Party.

  23. 23.

    The Other Steve

    May 21, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    What was it again Chamberlain did in 1938….?

    He agreed to talk to Adolf Hitler without preconditions!

    Great right-wing thinkers have never heard of the Munich Agreement.

  24. 24.

    SamFromUtah

    May 21, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Patriotism, Freedom, Traitor, are although such words.

    “Liberal” comes to mind too, along with “family”, “values”, and “American”.

    I’m with you, I gag whenever I hear righties mention freedom.

  25. 25.

    Pug

    May 21, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    What was it again Chamberlain did in 1938….?

    “He was an appeaser [Chris]. It’s the exact same thing”.

    Kudos to Kevin James for providing the easy answer to that question. Kevin’s answer reminded me of some of the things I wrote in college when I hadn’t read the book and didn’t know the answer. After the test, you hoped the professor would give you a C- because you knew what you wrote was bullshit.

  26. 26.

    KXB

    May 21, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    “Did anyone see him on that PBS show on Bush the elder (aka the sane Bush)? I wish I could remember the exact quote, but one part talked about how they took shit for not going to Bagdad during the first Gulf War and he said something like “I don’t hear about it anymore.” It was a kick to the groin of the modern Republican Party.”

    Yeah – I saw it last week. You can still see it on the PBS website – the program is American Experience. Not only did Baker make that comment, so did Scowcroft, and Colin Powell. While watching this program, I thought to myself, “Wow, the Republicans used to think and behave like adults.”

  27. 27.

    Ed Drone

    May 21, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    “Obama wants to talk to the Iranians without preconditions!” OOOHHH, SCARY! These dolts think “preconditions” means Bush’s “I’ll talk if you agree with me beforehand,” which is why no one will talk to Bush.

    IDJUTS! “No preconditons” does not mean “no preparations, no intelligence, no goals!”

    GAAAHH! Sometime the stupid burns hotter than other times, you know?

    Ed

  28. 28.

    PeterJ

    May 21, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    Israel says it is holding indirect peace talks with Syria mediated by Turkey.

    Obviously neither country is taking any advice from McCain.

  29. 29.

    Jess

    May 21, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    i suppose the next move will be to co-opt identity politics….

    Already happening–have you been following the War on Xmas (and on Xians)? Pretty hilarious stuff. I was extremely critical of postmodern theory back in the 80s and 90s, and pointed out that it could be used against the progressive cause far more effectively than it could be used for it. The neo-cons have proved me right again and again. But fortunately, no doubt due to their habit of cherry-picking history, they didn’t notice the huge backlash waiting to happen. Time for progressives to reclaim the Enlightenment.

  30. 30.

    Jess

    May 21, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    “Obama wants to talk to the Iranians without preconditions!”

    Is this actually true, though? (Not that it ever seems to matter…) I thought Obama said it WOULD BE contingent on certain preconditions.

  31. 31.

    Joe

    May 21, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Great post, but I believe you misspelled “Murkans”. “Murricans” requires a sub-lingual sophistication lacking in today’s conservative knuckle-draggers. It is now simply “Murkans”. There is a petition before the GOP Central Committee to change it to a series of grunts, but they are waiting to hear from Reagan’s corpse. If, on June 17th, Reagan’s corpse sees its shadow, the measure passes. Otherwise, “Murkan” will remain the official designation for white protestant citizens of the United States.

    Other words from the GOP Platform / Pronunciation Guide:

    “Tair” – Terror
    “Democracy” – American Hegemony

  32. 32.

    joe

    May 21, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Obama IS cleaning the Repubicans’ clock on this.

    It reminds me of the great immigration frenzy they tried to whip up in 2006, and how badly that fizzled.

    Or when they thought they were going to whip up a racial frenzy over Reverend Wright.

    They keep thinking they’ve got these big bazookas, but they keep turning out to be duds.

    America is not the country these people think it is. It’s better.

  33. 33.

    joe

    May 21, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Heh, different joe. Small j.

    How do these guys manage to handle the fact that Reagan was negotiating and meeting with Gorbachev for most of his administration, even while still fighting the Cold War and calling the USSR the “Evil Empire”. Was Reagan a sill lefty appeaser also?

    They day after the Reykyavik Accords were signed, George Will wrote a column containing the line “Yesterday will be remembered as the day America lost the Cold War.”

    These people are the salt of the Earth. The Soul of the New West. You know…morons.

  34. 34.

    nightjar

    May 21, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Wilfred Says:

    I thought peace was only true in fairy tales

    Scuds Was Out To Get Me.

    Now I’m a believer.

  35. 35.

    Tax Analyst

    May 21, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Ninerdave Says:

    You know what really chaps my hide and twists my nipples?

    Uh, I think you have just summoned Dreggas.

  36. 36.

    Tax Analyst

    May 21, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Wilfred Says:

    I thought peace was only true in fairy tales
    Meant for someone else but not for us.
    They were out to get us
    That’s the way it seemed.
    Pissed my pants and haunted all my dreams.

    Then I got some sense, now I’m an appeaser!
    Not a trace of hate in my mind.
    I’m a wimp, I’m an appeaser!
    I couldn’t fight them if I tried.

    I thought war was more or less a given thing,
    Seems the more I gave the less I got.
    What’s the use in tryin’?
    All you get is pain.
    When I needed Gandhi I got McCain.

    Then I got some sense, now I’m an appeaser
    Not a trace of hate in my mind.
    I’m at peace, I’m an appeaser!
    I couldn’t fight them if I tried.

    Not bad, Wilfred, but if you don’t reference the Original Song a lot of people might not realize you just posted a parody of The Monkees, “I’m A Believer”.

  37. 37.

    J. Michael Neal

    May 21, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Israel says it is holding indirect peace talks with Syria mediated by Turkey.

    I bet they give away the Golan Heights Sudetenland.

  38. 38.

    Dreggas

    May 21, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Tax Analyst Says:

    Ninerdave Says:

    You know what really chaps my hide and twists my nipples?

    Uh, I think you have just summoned Dreggas.

    Read my reply up thread. BWAHAHAHAHA

  39. 39.

    Birdzilla

    May 22, 2008 at 9:42 am

    If JAMES BAKER was ever lost in the desert even the vultures would turn him down

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