Why is Jim Gaffigan chairing the RBC meeting?
Consider this an open thread.
*** Update ***
At least the Clinton position is clear: “We have no problem taking every delegate from the state of Michigan, and fair reflection would suggest that not one single voter in the state of Michigan voted for or would have voted for Barack Obama. Plus, the Obama camp is a bunch of fools for believing the DNC.”
*** Update #2 ***
Lanny Davis’s long national emotional breakdown continues.
*** Update #3 ***
Ausman to Lanny Davis– Shut up.
TheFountainHead
I wish Gaffigan were chairing this, it would be worth watching.
Jake
The grandstanding by folks on the Clinton side of things is really fucking tiresome.
El Cid
“I’m glad you think we ought to have rules.” Ow!
TheFountainHead
This woman from South Dakota just bitch-slapped Blanchard.
TheFountainHead
Wow, I attended High School government meetings with less back-biting than this.
Jake
Can we all just admit this is bullshit?
If something actually gets decided on MI (and let’s face it, that seems questionable), what’s it likely to be? It’ll be full seating, 1/2 a vote each, with 73 for Clinton and 55 for Obama. That’ll net all of 9 delegates for Clinton, which doesn’t fucking matter anyway, because this was over a long time ago.
There might be variations on that which swing a few delegates one way or the other, but it’s not going to be significant. Until then, everyone gets their chance to add more hot air to the room. What a freaking waste of energy.
TheFountainHead
I really hope that a solution for this all his already been worked out between the campaigns because otherwise this will go on forever.
TheFountainHead
Donna Brazile is a strange cat. I like her, but she’s a strraaaaaannnnge cat.
El Cid
I wish in my daily work life I could re-define “compromise” more frequently in the fashion which the HRC supporters are suggesting it with regard to Michigan and Florida. Yes, it’s true I may have gone outside the rules with regard to my benefits, but I would be willing to compromise, by which I mean get everything I want.
TheFountainHead
Recess!1 Yay! I love recess!!
Incertus
Ickes looked like he got punched in the face when the chair smacked him down. It was beautiful.
TenguPhule
Al Qaida discovers the joy of running into Political Correctness
One of those WTF? stories.
Jake
Meanwhile, Obama today:
Sounds pitch perfect.
Adam
I finally got fed up and couldn’t take it any more. What happened?
TheFountainHead
Ickes wanted to “comment” and the chair said, “This is a time for questions, you can comment later.”
elf
I listened to Sen. Levin and thought he presented a well reasoned argument/explanation for the total approach taken taken by Michigan to begin with.
Splitting the baby in half may be the ultimate bargain made by the powers that be of the committee.
The Clinton argument is of course flawed if not an outright untruth. And at least the msm has picked up on it.
You know going into this I was not clear one way or the other who I was going to go with. Told my family that ultimately whomever the Party went with would get my vote.
I thought both candidates gave well reasoned arguments at their debates and actually was pretty impressed with Clinton.
But (and I do mean but), once her campaign started with the bullshit and victimizing and lies. Her persuasive arguments went right out the window and she totally lost me.
I don’t need it to be the First Woman President no matter what! And I am a woman.
What I need is for someone of integrity to take back my country!
Adam
Hee hee. Does anyone else get a kick out of listening to people chat off-camera on the live CNN feed?
Jorge
All I’m saying is that if the Clinton proposal passes, then I want my arm-band and .PDF file of which of my neighbors is on the enemies list ASAP. And I’ll be signing up my kids for the Clinton Youth monday morning.
Is that a bit over the top?
Anya
It seems that Lanny Davis had a major hissy fit in the lobby
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/31/lanny-davis-loses-his-coo_n_104474.html#postComment
patroclus
I believe our children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way!
Jake
Lanny has been a walking, talking hissy fit for at least the past month. I want someone to drop kick that asshat.
mbuchel
I think it was Atrios that wrote that it was worth supporting Obama if only for the reason that Lanny Davis wouldn’t be on TV much any more.
Tom in Texas
Lanny Davis is a hack, but at least he isn’t certifiably retarded.
They feteed Larry Sinclair, for cryin out loud. Clinton fans supporting someone who is baselessly making sexually charged allegations.
Fuck ’em. I’m through trying to play nice or reason. These people are either plants or beyond help.
Jake
There really aren’t too many Clinton surrogates who’ve come off looking respectable throughout all of this. Maybe Evan Bayh? Rendell at times at least has shown an unwillingness to tow the Clinton party line.
That’s about it, no?
Adam
Lanny Davis losing it is emblematic of everything else going down in the campaign, sadly — a lot of people are just pissed off and lashing out. He even admitted that he didn’t expect to win even with the entire delegation. If that’s the case then there was nothing substantive to get bad about. That’s what’s happening now.
Ninerdave
via c/b
I don’t want these people in the Democratic party. Beat it, start a third party, join the GOP.
I am so sick and tired of authoritarians and people who live in alternate realities influencing politics. Beat it. DIAF.
sunny
Just imagine a Democratic president who was elected by and beholden to African Americans, young college students, highly educated leftist “elites”, and plenty of left-minded working class whites.
as opposed to..
Appalachian yahoos, Reagan Democrats, centrist “serious people”, and self important, passively racist, whiny feminists.
We can yank this country left, even if the rest of them are kicking and screaming.
I’m a white, middle-aged, working class, SOUTHERN WOMAN, just as a btw, and I’ve been saying for YEARS that Hillary Clinton is a neocon. I wouldn’t vote for her for love or money.
Jay
Jim Gaffigan rules the earth.
Exhibit A: The “Hot Pockets” sketch.
http://tinyurl.com/6dqdfr
The Grand Panjandrum
Just for grins, here is a link to WATB Lanny Davis boo-hooing on CNN for being “ignored” on the night of the NC/Indiana primaries. Good times. Boo fucking Hoo, Lanny! You bet on the wrong horse. Now grow the fuck up, quit your whining.
Maybe this should be the video played every time one of the whiny ass Clinton surrogates open their pie hole.
Jorge
Let’s not let the nuts who will drive hundreds of miles to protest their own party somehow get any more credit than they deserve.
Octavian
I don’t want them in the Democratic party either. The behavior of these people is just revolting.
Dennis - SGMM
Clinton is managing to poison the well for a woman president just as comprehensively as she poisoned the well for Universal Health Care. She (And Bill) botched that one so badly that it wasn’t brought up as a possibility in the next three presidential elections.
On the other hand, DOMA, NAFTA, DADT, the AUMF and Kyl-Lieberman were fine with Hill and Bill. The Clintons are the Crisper Drawer of Democratic issues.
Jack H.
The Clinton campaigns detachment from reality scares me. There seems every reason to believe that she would govern in much the same style as Bush has. The unwillingness of Bush/Rove to engage on a reality based plane with everything instead geared towards grasping and retaining power is their most damaging legacy. ‘Creating your own reality’ may work for NLP/Randian businesspeople, but it sure doesn’t work well as a governing principle.
Just Some Fuckhead
Keep in mind that HRC can’t win even with the most generous awarding of delegates so the Clinton folks are creating massive ill-will for absolutely nothing.
Georgia Pig
I think John nailed it when he called this a hostage crisis. I really just don’t get what the Clintonites are after. It’s like Dog Day Afternoon, for Chrissakes.
El Cid
I just don’t get why MI & FL get to give the big middle finger to every other state in the union and yet play the victim role.
If they avoid any sanction, you bet your bottom dollar that every other state is going to date their next primary whenever the hell they want, early or late, and then scream and shout disenfranchisement if anyone ever says ‘boo’.
PeterJ
They want to reduce the gap in pledged delegates, then they would use the time from now up to the convention to argue that Clinton is more electable and therefore super delegates should vote for her and not Obama.
cleek
anyone expect Clinton will be there to support them and protect them from sanction, if they do ?
no ?
hmm.
sunny
Just some fuckhead, I don’t think it’s all for nothing, not from the point of view of the Clintons. I’ve been suspicious of the outright desperation and naked grasping coming from these two consummate political pros for some time.
It’s almost like they *have* to win, like they have *no choice.*
Recall it was Bill Clinton who swept GHWB admin scandals and crimes like Iran/Contra and BCCI under the rug in the name of “bipartisan cooperation”. If not for that “generosity”, the Bush name would have been mud for all eternity, some of them would be in prison, and GWB wouldn’t have been able to win a race for dog catcher.
Now I think we are seeing Bush thug tactics right out of the Rove playbook because The Bush Crime Syndicate are afraid they won’t be able to steal the election for that doddering old fool McInsane. They want to hedge their bets for a sure fire cover-upper of Bush crimes, Clinton. The Clintons are being pushed, backed, promoted, and even defended by the likes of Limbaugh and Bill Kristol.
Yes it’s a conspiracy theory, but given the facts, not at all implausible.
jake
Are you sure that’s Horseheads?
Right. That’s it. Get out. Go fuck yourself quietly under a bridge. Ta!
Just Some Fuckhead
Florida and Michigan aren’t playing the victim. The Clinton surrogates in Florida and Michigan are playing up the victim angle to foment discord and sabotage Obama’s chances in November.
HRC can’t win, any seated delegates won’t mean shit, so there’s only the one aim left.
cabrito
It’s like Dog Day Afternoon, for Chrissakes.
LOL!
The Grand Panjandrum
The committee is over an hour late coming back from lunch. So with almost 30 members and each one of them getting to speak we could be in for at least 5 more hours of this shit. Jesus.
Its time for some tequila anejo. If I start sounding too crazy an hour or so from now its the tequila and the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of my rants. On the other hand if by some miracle I type something incredibly brilliant it was all me.
Otto Man
According to this WaPo reporter, the unannounced superdelegates — the supposed audience for all this mind-numbing political theater — have essentially tuned it all out ever since the Indiana and NC primaries.
This is turning into the Sixth Sense, where everyone realizes Hillary’s been dead for a while except her.
JL
P lukasiak is over at emptywheel’s blog trying to explain to her how the MI rules work. He’s not winning.. lol Somehow I don’t miss him on the blog.
nightjar
Dealing with Pluk is like being stuck in an elevator full of used car salesmen.
The Grand Panjandrum
Heh.
Dennis - SGMM
It’s funny to hear Clinton and her surrogates harp on the fact that, by their Rovian math, she has the lead in the popular vote. I’m sure that President Gore would agree.
zzyzx
Looking good :)
Dennis - SGMM
“I see dumb people.”
Blue Buddha
The only way she has a “lead” in the popular vote is if you count FL & MI, conveniently leave out IA, NV, ME & WA, and assume that not a single one of the ~240,000 uncommitted voters in MI was going to vote for Obama anyway.
And yet she’s the one whining about how “voters are being disenfranchised”.
cleek
Clinton hasn’t made an honest argument in months.
Leo
Ex-fuckin’-actly.
That’s what’s so insane here. If Clinton simply recognized this reality and dropped out (as Romney and Edwards both did), the delegates would be seated according to some kind of consensus and that would be that.
The Grand Panjandrum
Ah, yes the Clinton supporters.
JL
Blue, Depends on the meaning of disenfranchised, I guess. The Clintons have their own dictionary.
Blue Buddha
True. It all depends on what “is” is.
Dulcie
They just announced on MSNBC that Barak Obama just resigned from Trinity United Church of Christ.
Blue Buddha
Phoenix makes a discovery.
Ninerdave
Then fuckin’ declare and put this to bed you spineless pussies.
Ninerdave
TheFountainHead
I’m wondering if maybe some of these uncommitted superdelegates have stayed that way because they knew this all was coming.
Scotty
You know that will turn into “Obama renounces his Christianity” somewhere along the way.
Dennis - SGMM
Pluk is the white shoes with a white belt of political discourse.
Blue Buddha
Part of me thinks that they’re waiting until all the RBC & primaries are finished, and then make their announcements. I expect a shitload of SD commitments coming in by the end of next week.
sunny
Looks like Florida won’t be seated 100% and Clinton supporters are shouting “Denver! Denver! Denver!”
Just Some Fuckhead
P. Tarluc?
El Cid
15 – 12 motion to seat all FL delegates denied. sunny’s comment is correct.
TheFountainHead
Wow. Watching this is insane. Like, this is what losing your mind must feel like.
Dug Jay
According to the Clinton camp, he’s leaving Trinity Church to go rejoin and become a teacher at the madrassa he left years ago in Indonesia.
TheFountainHead
I almost feel bad for Alice Huffman.
sunny
Seating full Florida delegation with half votes.
dreggas
Am I the only one that thinks the Clinton supporters there were acting like total asses WRT Florida? No sense of decorum whatsoever.
Just Some Fuckhead
Pretty disgusting, but I expect it will get worse.
TheFountainHead
Oh man, you just want to fuck Ickes with a rusty axe, don’t you?
sunny
no Dreggas, you are not the only one. It sounded like the kicking hissy fits of spoiled, bratty, overprivileged children.
sunny
Icky talking about gall. Talk about irony.
Just Some Fuckhead
Ickes substituted his personal judgment for the entire state of Michigan when he voted for the sanctions in the first place. So his profanity-laced tirade doesn’t really carry any weight with me.
El Cid
Harold Ickes on seating the MI delegations as recommended by Carl Levin but with each delegate having 1/2 vote: it’s “hijacking” the people’s votes. It’s this tiny unelected group speaking over 600,000 voters. He is “stunned” that we have the “gall” and “chutzpah” to substitute for those 600K voters — but “you bet your a** the process was flawed”, but since all elections are flawed, big whoop. So what, a lot of people didn’t vote? A lot of people did.
JL
Ickes believes in party unity as long as it’s in favor of Hillary.
Dulcie
I couldn’t understand what they were saying at first. I thought they were screaming “Attica!!! Attica!!!”
w vincentz
Ickes is not group hugger.
Ninerdave
People still think he’s a Muslim…
Just Some Fuckhead
It’s pretty ugly when old white people riot.
El Cid
Ickes: “Mrs. Clinton has instructed me to reserve her right to take this to the Credentials Committee.”
There you go.
TheFountainHead
Voting to “disenfranchise” voters is cool in 2007, but not 2008 if you’re Harold Ickes.
Blue Buddha
Sounds to me that Hillary supporters are just a bunch of DFHs.
dreggas
I am so glad that this is televised and people can see just who the real spoiler supporters are.
JL
Small miracles. The idea of a group hug with Ickes is icky..
JL
Small miracles. The idea of a group hug with Ickes is icky..
sunny
Icky threatening to take it to the Credentials Comm.
I’m telling you folks, John, Rachel, and me have it right.
It’s going all the way to Denver. Take it to the bank.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Adam
Wow, this is embarrassing.
Shabbazz
The Clinton supporters are acting nuttier than a porta potty at the peanut festival.
PanAmerican
I swear I heard Fowler called Ickes Mr. Rat Pickings.
Adam
“I do not come to this process to play games.”
SamFromUtah
It’s pretty ugly when old white people riot.
Somehow this makes me think of a Band-Aid with a purple heart drawn on it. I can’t imagine why.
Adam
Lol — “selective amnesia”
AWESOME
Just Some Fuckhead
All that applause by the committee after Al Roker finished speaking was a collective smackdown of Ickes.
gypsy howell
I don’t think Hillary’s supporters in the room, with all their outbursts and hootin’ and hollerin’, are helping her at this point.
Go ahead, take it to Denver. By then, she, and her dead-ender supporters, will be shown to be complete friggin’ loons. It’s only going to get worse for them.
Dennis - SGMM
Hillary will take it to the courts. She’s just as delusional as Bush at this point.
The Grand Panjandrum
Its over. Clinton netted 24 Pledged Delegates. Obama still has the majority of the Pledged Delegates. (he will have approx 1753 with 1734 being the majority of all PD’s.)
Shorter Harold Ickes: Waaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Ickes statement for Clinton about taking this to the Credentials Committee is actually good for Obama. The SD’s will now move enmasse to Obama. It really is over.
sunny
Looks like 59-69 MI solution has passed but one of the members has asked for a repeat of the vote count.
AnneLaurie
I am so glad that this is televised and people can see just who the real spoiler supporters are.
Because thank FSM for our unbiased media which values facts and justice over mere entertaining pictures!
Yeah, there are a lot of Hillary supporters willing to make themselves targets for mockery on the teebee. How fortunate that we here at Balloon Juice have never let ourselves be swayed from the light of pure reason in favor of padded statistics, or flight suits.
gypsy howell
Once again, the vote doesn’t go Hillary’s way and her supporters refuse to submit to the will of the voters.
dreggas
Again let me say I am glad this is televised. I want youtubes the next time any asshat talks about Obama supporters.
JL
Ickes and Hillary would prefer another 4 years of the Bush Administration than unite. I’m not sure that our economy can take it.
TheFountainHead
This is like the Twlight Zone. I am really glad I had the patience to watch this. Also, FYI, I think C-SPAN is going to replay all of this in prime time tonight, or in other words, as soon as it wraps up.
sunny
The Clinton’s got their way.
A reason to fight on.
The Grand Panjandrum
Ha ha ha ha! I guess the crazy Clinton supporters out in the hallway are shouting “Don’t taze me bro!” at the security guards. Jesus I hope someone posts a Youtube video.
TheFountainHead
And the Hillary supporters are still yelling “Madame President!”
w vincentz
Actually, this was very cool. FL and MI get their proposals approved. Barack advocated for seating them. Fowler (Hill supporter) came out for unity.
Overall, good day for Barack.
Game almost over for the Hillary crowd (geesh, the rioted!)
Ickes will hold out, but heck, he goes way back with the clintons (deputy chief of staff for Bill), so I didn’t expect much from him.
Dennis - SGMM
Denver! Denver! You go, girl! Push it to the limit. That way you and your lame-ass husband can be relieved of the unbearable tension of pretending to be Democrats.
Notorious P.A.T.
Ickes and Hillary would prefer another 4 years of the Bush Administration than unite. I’m not sure that our economy can take it.
No, it can’t. But when you have $109 million in the bank I suspect you get a little cavalier about the economy.
ThymeZone
Wolf Blizer + John King = two old women
sunny
Clinton statement: “We reserve the right to appeal this decision to the Credentials Committee”.
Scorched earth, just as we suspected.
Conservatively Liberal
I like Chuck Todd’s comment that the DNC is no longer under the control of Bill and Hillary, that this is ‘Obama’s party now’. I can live with that…lol!
Whether or not Hillary and her supporters will admit it, this is over next week and that is the end of it. Obama has an insurmountable lead, and no matter how they parse it he is indeed winning.
Hillary’s supporters were fairly disruptive at the end there, and listening to a bunch of ladies chanting “DENVER! DENVER!” wasn’t really that impressive.
Funny thing about Democracy though, it seems that Hillary’s supporters don’t like it very much. Rules? They don’t seem to like them much either. Same with their gal losing, they don’t seem very happy about it.
The comments at Hillaryis44 are priceless, they are in total meltdown.
Improved.
croatoan
Their position was completely unfair. Exit polls showed that 35% of the people who voted in the Michigan primary would’ve voted for Obama if he’d been on the ballot.