Behind the idea that Obama should run in harness with Clinton is this wobbly theory: Because the Republican Party is in such bad odor, if you unify the Democratic Party, that will suffice to win the election, and she is a necessary and sufficient catalyst of unity. But she is neither. She would be a potent unifier of John McCain’s party, thereby setting the stage for exactly what the nation does not need, another angry campaign of mere mobilization rather than persuasion.
What Obama offers us is the chance, no matter how slight to change the conversation from “Who do I vote against?” to “What is this change you’re promising, and why should I vote for you?” Will goes on: “The candidate embracing the ‘future’ should not glue himself to Washington circa 1993. Someone promising to ‘turn the page’ should not revert to an earlier chapter. ” Thoughts?
demimondian
Thoughts? How about: “I don’t take advice from George Will.”?
Seriously. He’s not got my best interests at heart — he’s a concern troll. If he’s right, it’s because he wants to hurt the Clintons again, not because he wants to help the Democrats. I don’t care about hurting the Clintons; if anything, I want to help them. I just want to help the party more.
rob!
he shouldn’t pick her, and he won’t. all this public courting is a way to (cue hushed Godfather tones) “show respect” and let her followers know she will be a part of all this excitement.
but she won’t be VP.
joe
Whatever he’d gain in Democrats, he’d lose in independents and crossover Republicans.
El Cid
I like hearing that the Obama campaign may have had some VP related discussions with Washington Senator Patty Murray — one of the Democrats who voted against the AUMF. How nice that might be.
zmulls
I *think*……I *think* based on gleaning the tea leaves from the last day or so….that neither Obama nor Clinton thinks it’s a particularly good idea….
…not for them personally and not for the party….
That was a pretty clear signal she sent yesterday that she’s not pushing for it. I suspect she realizes that Bill Clinton would be a liability for the campaign (all that scrutiny of finances, all that distraction, etc.), and that she would have more power to effect change in the Senate or even running the healthcare issue independently (or even as the head of HHS, if that’s what she wanted).
And Obama must know that he’d be constantly worried about what Clinton was going to do, or say — and worse, what Bill Clinton would do or say — to step on his message.
It’s best if Hillary Clinton can disagree with him publicly on occasion. For both of them to have a debate.
I think Hillary Clinton’s best move is to go back to the Senate and a) become the new Ted Kennedy, the lioness of the Senate, b) become the first female Majority Leader in history, and/or c) lead the charge for healthcare and childcare in the Senate.
As for healthcare, I expect that the final product of what gets passed will be at least half of Hillary’s plan — maybe more, whether she’s in the administration or putting amendments up in the Senate. I think Obama is smart enough to know that he wants a healthcare bill passed, and will compromise on the details with people who are passionate about it.
Zifnab
The guy is the ultimate concern troll. “Gee, Obama is great and all, but I don’t know about all his liberal policies. Aren’t they doomed to failure? I just think it would be better of Barack embraced George Bush and the conservative philosophy of ‘fuck you, I’ve got mine’. Then I think I’d be able to support his candidacy for President.
Also, could he kindly prove that he’s not a Marxist?”
Davis X. Machina
George Will is right.
Seeing that the laws of probability have been suspended, I will buy a lottery ticket on the way home.
Conservatively Liberal
That would work for me!
George Will is is so anal-retentive that whenever he sits on a couch the cushions stick to his ass when he stands up. He can go give his advice to those of his ilk, I could give a shit what he thinks.
Zifnab
I honestly think Obama’s health care plan is his weakest position. Hillary might not know how to sell a health care proposal, but the plan she pitched in ’94 was a breath of fresh air. Her white papers on the subject made the plan seem more structured and more thought out than Obama’s. I don’t think Obama’s primary objective is getting comprehensive health care passed.
So if Hillary wants to take the lead on designing a proposal and Obama wants to take the lead on selling it, I’d be happy to see that happen.
Bob In Pacifica
Clinton has run a Republican campaign against Obama since Super Tuesday. When she stood up in front of a bunch of generals and said that she and McCain were qualified to be Com-in-Chi but that Obama wasn’t she effectively eliminated herself from consideration for the Veep. And it wasn’t accidental. Clinton and her staff aren’t stupid. Hillary is sixty years old. She knows the rules. So does her mobbed-up henchwoman Ferraro.
And so does Obama. He knows the game, and he surely knows that Clinton is running a campaign to destroy the Dems. He knows she’s representing the corporatists against her, and just like she could cuddle up to Scaife her battles with the media (which her husband allowed to merge and merge to the pitiful state of today) are battles of ideas, or even ugly racist blood sport, but akin to professional wrestling.
The thing is, against the odds he’s actually winning.
kid bitzer
thoughts?
fuck george will.
but on the narrow question of hrc for vp, my thought is:
george will=blind pig.
he’s found an acorn with this one.
TCG
Marxist? I thought Obama was a Reaganite or mmaybe an Elitist.
MBL
Well, he’s gotta be right once in a while.
asl
Obama won’t pick Clinton, but not because HRC would mobilize the Republicans (someone ought to retire Will). That’s living in the 90s.
Clinton is automatically ineligible to be Obama’s VP because of her vote on Iraq. Period.
les
Let’s see–Hillary is the repub-lite, DLC, corporatist/centrist democrat, funded in no small part by industry, significantly including the insurance industry. Our health care system has substantially more overhead than any sane system in the world. She has a health care plan that requires everyone to purchase insurance. Why am I not as excited by this as so many others seem to be?
Napoleon
Will is spot on correct, regardless of his motives.
I actually think it is his primary objective, and in the last week he all but said health care would be his number one priority in his first 100 days, I just think he wimped and watered his proposal down. To me that is all the more reason to wish HRC was in the Senate then on the ticket. She will help push for something closer to her plan (and to tell you the truth if I were BO, in my talks with her I would offer to get behind her plan once the election is over and it is introduced as the prefered plan of the administration).
Chinn Romney
It scarcely matters who Obama picks. McCain is obviously in poor health and it’s only going to get worse over the next few months. He is going to get beaten like a rented mule. I almost feel sorry for the guy, except he’s such a prick.
zmulls
During the unity discussions of the next couple of months, both Hillary Clinton *and* Elizabeth (and John) Edwards are going to lean into him and tell him exactly why his plan isn’t as good. And now that he has the nomination sewn up, he can start reading Paul Krugman’s columns again.
I really think it’s more important to him that HE pass a healthcare plan that has broad support, than it be HIS plan necessarily.
wasabi gasp
Too obvious. What a waste of bow tie powers.
TheFountainHead
Duh.
**Not that George Will is intelligent or should be read for any reason whatsoever.
wasabi gasp
BTW, Will doesn’t have genitals, amirite?
jenniebee
Even if he offered her Veep, why would she take it? I think she’s had enough of being in the Executive Mansion without having any actual authority to get anything done. If she’s looking for a place in the Obama administration, it’s in the cabinet – Sec Commerce or HHS is my bet, and she’d do a hell of a good job in either spot.
If that got fleshed out with Gore for Sec. Interior and Edwards for Sec. Labor… zomg happiness overload.
Bobzim
Georgie Porgy has it right. I’ve said all along that the Clintons’ history precluded a rising star/new blood from joining forces with them.
The Moar You Know
No belly button either. That’s how you can tell if someone’s made in a lab.
zmulls
Gore is not going to take a cabinet post — he won’t be able to do as much as he’s doing now, with all the attendant bureaucracy.
You don’t want a cabinet secretary outranking the President.
Dreggas
O/T but Check out this Reason timeline on “Whitey”
zsa
the merits of this particular argument aside, george will is a twit.
joe
I don’t think his primary objective is getting his health care plan passed. As that capital gains tax answer shows, he’s not much of a policy geek.
Which is a good thing. People in Congress know the policy and politics of the issue better, and he should just get behind their plan.
wasabi gasp
Way too close. Who’d wanna wake up and deal with that every day?
passerby
I like your thinking. This is some crazy dream. What I recognize as a reasoned truth coming from the mouth of someone who is paid millions to manipulate by lying. Is he gonna get fired?!?
T
Elvis Elvisberg
The only reason to pick Hillary is to unify the party.
But the party’s going to be unified anyway, now that Clinton’s dropping out, as the contrast between McCain and Obama gets to the forefront of people’s minds.
So, there’s no reason to add someone to the ticket who detracts from the “change” message, who has high negatives among the other party, and who might have an agenda separate from the nominee’s.
Plus, she’s already been a very effective senator. It would be great for America if she were able to pull a Ted Kennedy and refocus on legislation. There’s every reason to think she can play a huge, huge role there.
sunny
No no no! A bulldog litigator such as Edwards needs to be Attorney General, going after War and Corporate criminals, and corrupt Bushies.
Geeno
Can’t be HRC. Bill comes as part of that package, and that’s too many people wanting face time. The top of the ticket has to be the STAR. HRC and Bill would just detract.
John Cole
The reason Sen. Obama yesterday told the press that he was not going to speculate in the media about his Veep selection is twofold:
1.) He wants this to be an orderly, thorough, and professional process that produces the best VP candidate.
2.) Every time a story comes out about why Hillary should or should not be the VP, it does nothing but damage to the party. Columnists and bloggers are not going to make the decision, but commenters and bloggers are going to keep alienating Clinton supporters, who we need gravitating to the nominee.
In short, VP speculation right now does nothing but reopen and throw salt in wounds we need to heal.
RSA
Good God, George Will is one of the most tedious writers out there. (And somehow he’s acquired the reputation of being an intellectual, despite his writing excesses.) I think he’s right in this case, though. The dream ticket is not to be.
Rome Again
This was my thinking before George Will said it. My tendancy is to think that every once in a while the rooster crows at the exact moment the bright rays of the sun begin to touch the earth.
SnarkyShark
When Isreal was getting its ass kicked in Lebanon, Johnson wrote a piece on the front page of the GOS. At the time everyone was still swooning for him about Plame. In the piece, Johnson stated that Olmert had no military experience. I found out this wasn’t true and E-Mailed Larry to let him know. His piece was still effective, and the misinformation was unnecessary and only detracted from the piece. I was quite civil about it.
He E-Mailed me back personally.
His E-Mail was ” Fuck off you fucking troll”.
The dude is unhinged.
I saved that E-Mail as a souvenir.
Rome Again
The
dreamnightmare ticket is not to be.fixt, and Thank God!
cleek
Bill would distract from Obama every second of every day, for the duration of Obama’s term(s). it would be a non-stop soap-opera/reality-show freak-out. i’d expect at least one daily entertainment/news show to devote itself to covering the intrigue in the WH; Comedy Central would do an animated spoof; Parker and Stone would remember that it’s OK to make fun of presidents.
Rome Again
A bit of the crazy from TL about why Clinton will not only be Veep, but equal:
I wonder what cocktail of drugs produces that affect?
Rome Again
Well, now that someone’s mentioned Edwards for AG, what does everyone think about the news in a diary on TGOS yesterday that Daschle wants HHS?
RSA
I definitely agree. It’s not my dream.
Rome Again
I heard someone pose Governor of New York. Would they have her there?
I still think Lifetime reigns as Queen (and King) of a distant island in the Pacific would be more to their liking. That’s a donation drive I’ll contribute to.
Rome Again
les, I hope you don’t mind, I just felt this should be repeated.
Mary
Very interesting post at FiveThirtyEight advocating for Montana governor Brian Schweitzer for VP. There’s also an interesting YouTube interview with Charlie Rose.
I think he may be a very good choice. He’s a damn smart, funny, down to earth, populist-libertarian Democrat in a lot of ways, and he can probably engage a lot of people who aren’t typical Democrats, especially with his stance on gun control: “You control your gun and I’ll control mine.” He selnt several years in the Middle East and speaks fluent Arabic, and opposed the war. OTOH, he may have a tough time with some progressives. He’s pro-choice, but seems to favour civil unions instead of gay marriage, and in the Charlie Rose interview, refers to a state constitutional ban on gay marriage that he is not ready to work to overturn. Choosing Schweitzer, for all his strengths, may alienate some of Obama’s current supporters and may not bring in a fair chunk of Clinton supporters.
But that’s right now. If Obama’s going to take a couple of months to select a VP, there’s time for things to settle down.
limbaugh's pilonidal cyst
Clinton for VP? Absolutely not. This is a transformational election and Hillary just ain’t about that. She’s DLC all the way, that’s (hopefully) part of the Democratic Party’s past now. I’m partial to Jim Webb for #2 right now.
Oh, and Kerry for AG.
Rome Again
Nobody’s going to get their entire laundry list out of this, but damn, that’s an impressive choice. While gay marriage is not his preference, he IS willing to allow civil unions and how often does a Veep make that kind of demand anyway (not counting Cheney of course)? Is it his preferred topic or just an aside?
Mary
Rome Again, it’s a topic he was cornered on: gay marriage is not his hobbyhorse. His big topic is energy policy and sources.
He’s also pretty hard-headed about keeping troops in the Middle East. As I said, he opposed the war, but he thinks the U.S. will have to keep 100K troops in the ME indefinitely — until we get alternatve energy sources in place.
Nick
I have two: (1)Will is an asshole, and (2) despite (1), he’s right.
Nick
To Chinn Romney: “I almost feel sorry for the guy, except he’s such a prick.” You said it all. My feelings exactly.
w vincentz
It’s interesting to me that Republican pundits are very eager to tell the Democrats how they should run their campaign, who should be on the ticket, yada, yada, yada.
When was the last time anyone saw a Democrat giving advice to the Republicans regarding how they should run theirs?
limbaugh's pilonidal cyst
I know, they told us to nominate Clinton but did we listen?
...now I try to be amused
I thought Obama ran to end Clintonism in the Democratic Party. Which is to say, I don’t see Hillary coming back to the White House.
Conservatively Liberal
No we didn’t, and I suggest we do the same with George Will. If anything, his advice tells me that we are right in not wanting Hillary on the ticket. How about ambassador to Mars?
I will even toss some cash in the kitty for rocket fuel to send her (and Bill) there. Heck, I will even toss in some extra cash so we can buy some duct tape to strap Bush and Cheney to the outside of the rocket. I am sure they could use the vacation.
Joyce
Hillary came in second place. She should be considered. Personally, I did not like the way she campaigned, but she could be the ultimate attack dog, allowing Obama to stay above the fray. If asked about her attacks on Obama, could just cackle and say it was in the heat of nomination race, but……
Just Some Fuckhead
Strike 3.
Chuck Butcher
Ifind George Will intersesting, not that I often agree with him. As I’ve watched this VP thing over this campaign I’ve seen nothing from Hillary that indicates a good VP candidate. I’ve seen less of Bill that indicates he’d be a good VP spouse.
Hillary is an off message candidate
A rotten 2nd fiddle
She’ll incite the (R)s
Her presence validates her criticisms
She has a huge oppo bullseye on her back
She’s still a short term thinker
Her loon faction won’t be satisfied anyhow
IndependentFemale
Dear Democrats,
As a (late) Obama supporter, I must say I’m a bit shocked that 70% of Democrats think Hillary should be Obama’s VP. Also, surprising is how all the so called pundits unsuccessfully attempt to put the 2008 Democratic contest into historical context, by comparing a potential Obama/Clinton ticket to Kennedy/JFK or Reagan/Bush. None of those VP’s were MARRIED TO A FORMER PRESIDENT! And in all honesty, Hillary has already served as VP in her husband’s administration. How is it productive to knowingly pick a VP who (along with their spouse) will undermine an Obama administration? Even if the Clintons tried to be fair, they can’t help it – it’s in their blood to be control freaks and steal the spotlight.For all those who STILL think this is a good idea, get a clue and an IQ!
Just Some Fuckhead
This will no doubt come as a bit of a surprise to Al Gore.
Tax Analyst
Yes, exactly.
I keep one in a pen outside my bedroom window, just in case my broken clock isn’t right.
And now I know what to do if the rooster dies – I can ask George Will if he’s available.
Blue Raven
Adding to the repetition of this because it is true. Any program that forces the working-class poor to go deeper into debt with either premiums or penalties carries the mark of a designer who has no idea what it’s like to be that far down.
loquacious mute
.
Oh jeez! Haven’t we gotten through all the “ist” yet. Next it will be the “ism’s”.
What is wrong with these people the cold war is so over.
loquacious mute
Uh, I actually voted for just for one, so I guess I loose.
I always wonder when someone uses the “BHO” if they really are an Obama supporter. Right wingers love the “H” part of his name.
I think like most this would not be a dream but a nightmare. How would obama deal with Hillary’s vote for the war or that she does not represent real change, and lest we forget nobody puts Bill in a corner.
wobbly
Why not HRC? Obama’s already come round to her position on talking to foreign leaders and is facing considerable pressure to adopt her health care proposal as well. He has also ingratiated himself with AIPAC by ditching the Palestinians, just like Bill did.
Obams realizes HRC knows stuff he doesn’t, she can reach a demographic he can’t, and vice-president is not much a job anyway.
What is the big deal?
Our candidates are way smarter than their supporters.
Just Some Fuckhead
The big deal is you kneecap yer change message, re-energize Republicans and kiss Independents goodbye. HRC on the ticket ain’t gonna happen.
Presumably you mean yourself and folks who think like you.
chuckieboyc
If Obama names hellary, he had better sleep with one eye open. You know Bobby Kenedey>>>>>>>>ah forget it.
Johnny Pez
All right, you imposter! Who are you, and what have you done with Mr. Will?