Via Cernig, the latest in “WTF IS GOING ON AT GITMO?”:
Interrogators at Guantánamo Bay were told to destroy their notes to stop them potentially being used to highlight the mistreatment of detainees, according to a US military lawyer.
William Kuebler, a lieutenant commander who is defending Omar Khadr, a Canadian national facing trial for alleged war crimes in Afghanistan, said the classified instructions were included in an operations manual that prosecutors allowed him to see last week.
The apparently wilful and officially sanctioned destruction of notes meant he would be unable to challenge supposed confessions given by Khadr, Kuebler said yesterday.
He told reporters the instruction was contained in a US military manual of standard operating procedures, or SOPs, for interrogators that was shown to him during a pre-trial review of possible evidence.
“The mission has legal and political issues that may lead to interrogators being called to testify … Keeping the number of documents with interrogation information to a minimum can minimise certain legal issues,” the document was cited as saying in an affidavit signed by Kuebler.
Over the past few years, we have been repeatedly told that “If you aren’t doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to hide.” I guess you can draw your own conclusions about that.
Maybe it is my inner DFH, but it sure seems to me that the plan is clear- some quick show trials followed by tidy executions, lose a couple more hard drives at the White House, have it all wrapped up by 20 January 2009, and then the current administration goes on vacation. Maybe South America?
And the saddest thing about it all is that KSM and the others most likely are guilty, and the world and the American people and the victims of 9/11 deserve a fair, open, and transparent trial of these folks- that they will not get that is just one last insult from the Bush administration to the rest of the world. And when rumors like this persist in the outer reaches of the intertrons, the Bush administration has no one to blame but themselves.
gypsy howell
That’s the part that sticks out to me. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to find out that they were given secret-handshake-wink-wink orders to destroy the evidence, but it’s actually written up in the manual as SOP??
Scary that these “people” [/Daniel Plainview voice] don’t think they need to cover their tracks any more. They know we’re not going to do a damn thing about it.
libarbarian
That is why we need a Lightbringer
Now that the HIllary is gone, maybe we can get back to mocking some of the nuts in our camp?
Rick Taylor
Time to plug this award winning episode of This American Life on Habeas Corpus and Gitmo again. Anyone’s who’s the least bit surprised at these developments should listen to it; trials where the accused cannot see the evidence against them have been a staple there for a while. It seems you just can’t trust the government to do the right thing when you suspend basic rights like the Geneva conventions and habeas corpus. Who would have thought? Maybe those dfh’s had a point after all.
There’s no way to tell for sure, is there? Any confessions were probably extracted using torture, and we can’t take the government’s word for anything.
libarbarian
sorry, “Lightworker”.
I’m obviously not one of the Spiritually Mature, or I would know that.
Llelldorin
Thank you for that last paragraph. That’s really the nub here—thanks to the administration’s inexplicable taste for behaving like Bond villains, we’ll never really know which of these guys is guilty of what.
We’ve also given KSM exactly what he wants: Martyrdom at the hand of the US government, after an obviously tyrannical show trial. By all accounts, the man is a thug. He doesn’t deserve to be treated as The Greatest Enemy The US Has Ever Faced—he deserves a berth on Riker’s Island and a trial in New York County Criminal Court, like any other murderer.
Punchy
Seriously, what’s the point of having these trials AFTER November 3/4/whatever the fucking date is? The only reason for them is to show what a badass Yawn McCane and his party is…right?
srv
It’s good that we, the public, were kept in the dark about many details of Op Boijinka – like the part about flying planes into buildings.
Best that there be a secret trial, so we will all be surprised next time. National Obscurity keeps a lot of patriots employed.
Punchy
They know Bush will blanket pardon 87% of the entire Adminstration, 99% of the CIA, 100% of the NSA, and 35% of AT&T and VerizonWireless.
McClellan will be blamed for everything. And Clarke. And that CENTCOM genny they just sacked.
Punchy
They know Bush will blanket pardon 87% of the entire Adminstration, 99% of the CIA, 100% of the NSA, and 35% of AT&T and VerizonWireless.
McClellan will be blamed for everything. And Clarke. And that CENTCOM genny they just sacked.
Zifnab
Digby has this story under the microscope. It’s worse than it looks.
The US Government is trying to leverage KSM into convincing the Gitmo detainees to give up their lawyers and – get this? – demand the death penalty. So they can be martyrs.
Up till this point, individuals were kept strictly separated from each other. Suddenly, KSM is allowed to corral the other prisoners and have a team huddle. And the consensus? Toss aside their military legal representation – you know, the guys who are uncovering all this bullshit – and ask to be put to death.
Wouldn’t this all tie up neatly for the military tribunals? Everyone pleads guilty and asks to be lynched. No more trials, no more prisoners, no more embarrassing Time Magazine exposes, no more investigations. Everyone wins.
Buckethead
And when rumors like this persist in the outer reaches of the intertrons, the Bush administration has no one to blame but themselves.
Somehow I don’t think this is keeping them up at night..
The Moar You Know
Since the Dirty Fucking Hippies wouldn’t allow the US Government to have
kangaroo courtsmilitary tribunals, the only patriotic thing left to do is to burn all the notes andforceallow the prisoners to kill themselves./wingtard
And there are actual citizens of the United States who think like this. I think that’s the scariest thing I’ve realized over the last eight years.
jake
I’ll settle for them meeting the same fate as Bond villains. (Yes, I know that would be a bit hard on the pirahna.)
BushCo appeases the terrorists, Irony Meters explode killing all of the DFHs. Yep. Sounds like a win for the Republigoons all right. The only problem is they drove KSM crazy as a bed bug so their cunning plan might go like the rest of their cunning plans.
Faux News
Libarbarian: are you implying Hillary is not a “lightworker”?
Loviatar
John,
Once again, why did you vote for these guys?
.
And more important
.
Why did you continue to vote for them?
.
cricket>
Dennis - SGMM
As a gesture of goodwill to the president-elect, Bush will make sure that all White House and DOJ computers will have brand new hard drives when he leaves office.
nightjar
It seems the Bush Administration is playing the Stalin card in the pursuit of international jurisprudence.
“Death solves all problems – no man, no problem.” Joseph Stalin quotes (Russian Prime Minister, Communist leader and Political Dictator.
No muss, no fuss and no pointy headed liberal mumbo-jumbo.
Welcome to the jungle formerly known as America, the Shiny City On a Hill.
libarbarian
Lets just sayt that of all the many things she made me feel, “enlightened” was not among them.
jrg
What’s the point of punishing someone who breaks the law? Is it retribution? Is it rehabilitation? Is it to provide a disincentive to future would-be law breakers?
Personally I could not care less if Bush gets thrown in jail, or spends the rest of his life clearing brush in Texas, but if these war crimes do go unpunished, what disincentive is there to prevent another future president from waging war for political or personal gain? What disincentive is there for denying a prisoner his right to a fair trial? What disincentive is there for destroying presidential records?
There needs to a trial for the members of the Bush admin who have shredded our constitution, and who have made a mockery of justice at Gitmo (and in Washington).
I say this as a pragmatist, not an idealist. If the people at Gitmo are guilty (I have no doubt that many of them are), they deserve a fair trial to be proven guilty. We should not be putting them through some sort of kangaroo court whose findings are sketchy and subject to the same questions of legitimacy that you might find in a dictatorship.
Everyone deserves a fair trial, even George W Bush. Unless there is a criminal investigation into the White House’s behavior over the past seven years, we can expect to go through all this again in the not-so-distant future. That’s why we have laws in the first place.
AkaDad
Hillary has to be a lightworker. She’s the Sun Queen.
ethan salto
Cue the rumor that Bush has made significant land acquisitions in Paraguay.
Interesting stuff.
If there were even the most remote chance I could face war crimes (or other) prosecutions, and if I were a multimillionaire, I’d likely take similar steps. Better safe than sorry.
Davebo
Does this mean that once the Evil African takes office he and Darth Clinton can lock up any wing nut they want to for any reason, or none, and zip them away to camp Gitmo?
Should we start our list now?
Zifnab
The disincentive is supposed to be “You don’t get elected again, and our criminal justice system takes it from there”. But the nation at large failed to deliver the first incentive and the GOP controlled justice system wasn’t going to punish itself. It ultimately all comes down to the voters.
montysano
Yes, KSM is guilty. The others? Who knows? I’d say it’s more likely that they’re not guilty, given the track record of this band of fuckups.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
The only thing I can think of that could pull this back close to normalcy is if the next President holds a mini-Nuremburg, where there’s a mass-gathering of what we know and what we can prove. Many people would get off free, many soldiers would recant, and a tiny few would go to jail for “just following orders”.
I don’t think it likely to happen, but it seems the cross of US nationalism and US conservatism needs another lesson that one must never be sure of their moral standing.
sstarr
FREE STOCK TIP:
As the election season rolls onward towards November if Obama is significantly ahead in the polls INVEST IN COMPANIES THAT SHRED DOCUMENTS OR ERASE HARD DRIVES.
There’s going to be so much shredding in and around Washington DC that it will look like a continuous ticker tape parade. In fact, if Obama wins his inaugural parade will be accompanied by a blizzard of shredded documents.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
It is almost as if the want us to lose the GWOT. Whose side are they on?
wisest political observation evah: In a Democray, people get the quality of government they deserve. Collectively we’ve been foolish and short-sighted, and it is time to start making up for that lapse.
w vincentz
Zinfab,
It comes down to the Hague, not the “GOP controlled justice system” that Gonzo did so much to construct, nor “impeachment” by the House.
Oh…and the humor….
GDumb today, “Energy is more expensive.” “Gasoline is more expensive.”
Hey! Dumbass fuckin’ Chimp, Duh? Isn’t gasoline a form of energy derived from fossil fuels? What a fuckin’ ass you are! And all those that bought your BULLSHIT!
croatoan
“We’re gonna give you a fair trial, followed by a first-class hanging.” — Brian Dennehy in Silverado.
“I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.” — Thomas Jefferson
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
A mix of the first two plus the third.
Even if Bush will never get another shot at power, and there is no way to rehabilitate a mind that never got past 7th grade, there’s still a requirement to take a pound of flesh. One reason is because we can’t possibly allow Bush to profit from his war crimes, and just because we don’t _know_ of any personal reasons for his authorization of torture isn’t enough to set him loose.
The second reason to get that pound of flesh is to disable him from being able to do this again. What if he doesn’t want to retire yet? His dad has well known Saudi business connections… why not get in on the fun and start torturing people for Mideast oilfields. Admittedly farfetched, but I’d prefer Bushie doesn’t even have the will to get up before Noon, much less the inclination to do harm to someone else he hasn’t met.
I still think it’s not going to happen, but if we’re going to punish, we do it first because of Bush.
passerby
Crooks and liars all.
The “liars” aspect is now openly discussed in the corporate media. It’s the “crooks” aspect that has yet to make its debut.
We know enough to say the Bush regime is guilty of high treason on any number of fronts. The habeus corpus and torture positions could not be less American. But, bastardizing the Constitution to suit their greedy plans will be the cause of their downfall.
The Gitmo issue is very telling yet I think it’s a secondary side effect of this. Their manipulative banking practices (the “crooks” aspect) have effectively ransomed our future. Notice how suddenly they’re threatening $200/barrel oil? WTF? And this let’s-give-everyone-$300 plan was an act of pure desperation.
The federal reserve dollar is as good as dead. Google “Basel II” to read about a new banking system that calculates risk and creates transparency. As I understand it, it has been implemented. Homeowners aren’t the only ones holding the bag, entire countries have been hoodwinked by all this chicanery, too, and they can’t be happy.
BTW, what the sam hill is Laura bush doing in Afghanistan?? and why she making nice with the Obamas?
Something’s afoot.
T
p.s. The Provost Marshall is the only one who can arrest a sitting President (and Vice-President for that matter.) Just sayin.
w vincentz
Caidence,
I don’t disagree with your two reasons but I’d like to offer a third. It might remind you of words you said everyday if you attended a public school in the USA, like when you might have put your hand over your heart and looked at a flag, and recited these words, “with Liberty and Justice for ALL.”
“ALL” includes the current perps.
Zifnab
We only get to use the Hague on countries we conquer. Tanks were rolling through Germany long before any Nazi sat in a defendants chair. It took a long, long time to put Milosovich away. We didn’t just try him from on high.
Nixon got ousted because the Senate politely kicked him to the curb. Reagen nearly got the same treatment, but he was able to shove Oliver North out there to take the bullet. And both those Congresses had established Democratic majorities. If you want to fix a problem in your own country, the fastest and most painless way to do it is to rely on your own country. No one in Europe is going to send cops up the White House lawn to lead GW away in handcuffs for us. No one is going to roll tanks or fly choppers into D.C. to save us.
We’re the badassest country in the world, like it or not. And with great power, comes great responsibility.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
If you’re saying that even Bush deserves a fair trial, I feel for that, but by using their power to stonewall such a trial, they exacerbate our efforts. If you ask me, if they had proudly tortured without hiding from it, I’d still grant the fair trial. But if they’re going to tie our hands like that, then they’re the one’s that ought to pay for it, not us.
Calouste
Too bad for Dubya the Left won this year’s elections in Paraguay. Should have gone for Colombia or Dubai.
RSA
I wish. That is, this would be a very, very good thing, to get everything out in the open, but Republicans would shut this country down.
KCinDC
I’m not sure it’ll all be neatly wrapped up, especially if it can’t be done in time for the November election. If Obama wins, the objective is going to be to leave as big a mess as possible, so they’ll do what they can to further demonize the Gitmo inmates, radicalize those they can, and leave them to Obama as a present, along with a newly started war in Iran, plus whatever they can manage to trash the economy.
JC
WHAT – really, WHAT – is going to make the media take this – the show trials, the Starr Chamber, the obvious flouting of any type, form, or the meaning of a fair trial – what is going to make the nation notice?
Every time, I hear about this stuff, I can’t believe it – count the ways that these are bull**it trials:
1. Lawyers not seeing evidence of guilt.
2. Not being allowed access to lawyers.
3. All conversations between lawyers and accused taped and recorded.
4. Successful lawyers pushed off cases.
5. Uncooperative judges pushed off cases.
6. Manipulation of suspects, to give up their lawyers.
7. Evidence of innocence, withheld for years, until finally person just “let go”.
To any and all who look at this “trial” process, it’s obvious bull**it. Total crap. Completely unamerican.
Davebo
Ironically, from a political standpoint it could very well help the GOP brand.
Zifnab
Let them try. With no majorities in House or Senate, no White House to bully pulpit from, and a party that’s getting ousted at the local level across the nation, their back is broken.
A smart Democratic Leadership can sweep by attempts at obstruction and overwhelm the GOP base. At 28%, they aren’t winning any elections and they aren’t swinging any popular support. Strike while the iron is hot.
libarbarian
the intertubes are booring today
RSA
Maybe I’m just thinking like a
cowardpolitician. No more! If anyone proposes a truth and reconciliation committee for the U.S., I’ll get behind it.w vincentz
Zinfab,
Caidence, and J.C.
Good points all.
All that I can add is that, like so many other Americans, I believe in JUSTICE. And, I assure you, JUSTICE will prevail.
I’m not quite sure about “how”, but I know it “will”. The credibility of the United States of America is being closely observed by many others that inhabit this planet.
That’s the “why”.
Thomas Beck
“And when rumors like this persist in the outer reaches of the intertrons, the Bush administration has no one to blame but themselves.”
That is a truth they can never bring themselves even close to considering let alone accepting. They and their dwindling last-ditch Koolaid-drinking bullet-takers are so convinced of their own rectitude and their own inevitable victory that they are 100% certain that they can do anything – literally anything – to achieve that victory, even if it is indistinguishable from things that, when others do them, they are the very first and loudest to condemn.
Wilfred
What’s even more pathetic, from the standpoint of ‘truth, justice and the American Way’, is the remarkable understanding and leniency show to our own soldiers when they periodically commit war crimes. In those cases, the magical Rules of Engagement seem to excuse, if not justify, every sort of violent transgression made upon brown skinned Muslim untermenschen.
We act like what we are – an Empire with Absolute Power and morality that has historically accompanied such anomalies.
AkaDad
Obama does the dap. McCain does the nap.
patroclus
The Nuremburg and Tokyo war crimes tribunals were important because they were not tyrannical kangaroo show trials but because they allowed the accused due process of law, including the right to confront witnesses and an open discovery process. Why can’t we use the federal courts for these trials?
The Grand Panjandrum
Impeachment is possible AFTER the the officials in question have left office. I do recall such a case occurring sometime around the Civil War (not Andrew Johnson).
As a trade off I say we hang Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz along with the KSM gang. Get rid of a bunch of war criminals all in one drop of a trap door.
Llelldorin
Patroclus, or the state courts. First-degree murder is a class A-I felony in New York State, and KSM is accused of many thousands of counts of it. Why couldn’t we have just given them a crack at it first? It’s what we’d do if he’d been Keith Shawn Michalson, scary neo-Nazi militiaman from Montana.
The Moar You Know
Umm, if you haven’t noticed, this nation is so far stuck in the Dark Ages that almost half (and I’m praying it’s not more than 49%) of the populace will still vote, in the face of all reason and sanity, for the same party that has driven this country straight into a ditch. You expect anyone in this country to give a shit about what happens to “some Muslims”?
Really?
We have the government we, the short-sighted citizens of the United States of America, deserve. I am praying that this nextr election we don’t get the government we deserve, but rather the government that we desperately need. But I am not holding my breath for that to happen.
As for bringing these criminals to trial, it will never happen. We had the chance, post-Nixon, to show that we were a nation of laws and we abdicated that responsibility. The precendent has been set. Bush will never see a day in a courtroom.
dreggas
O/T but this was too good not to post From LJ’s No Braincells:
H/T Sully
Davebo
Also off topic, but I’m really starting to worry about Rick Moran
Remember when he was sort of.. you know, reasonable?
cleek
every time i see the title to this post i start singing that Journey song:
When the lights go down in the city
And the sun shines on the bay
I want to be there in my city
Ooh, ooh, Oh ooo oh
So you think you’re lonely
Well my friend I’m lonely too
I want to get back to my
citySTASI by the bayOoh, ooh, Oh ooo oh
cleek
nope.
the hack is strong with that one. and it cannot be unlearned.
dreggas
yeah he’s a real Moran…
The Moar You Know
Thank you for ruining my life. I’m going to have that stuck in my head for days.
jake
T-shirt naow plz.
In fact, aren’t there pictures of McCrank supposedly snoozing during a SotU?
Why yes, there are.
nightjar
Because wingnuts were presented with a once in a lifetime excuse for torturing people, and they just couldn’t let the opportunity go to waste.
HyperIon
“the objective is going to be to leave as big a mess as possible”
i’m thinking this will go WAY beyond removing the W key from the WH computers (yeah, i know, never happened. but for me it really points out that Dems don’t really know how to be dicks.)
John Cole
Rick Moran is a good guy, but you have to remember his prime motivating principle- “The Democrats are worse.”
He is not going to worry about the stuff Aravosis found on McCain’s site, he is not going to entertain the notion that these are just wingnuts who have nothing to do with the Obama campaign, he is never going to entertain it might be a ratfuck by McCain supporters just to make Obama campaign look bad. To him, the democrats are evil- these anti-semitic comments are evil, and there is no other way to interpret this.
Watch anything he ever writes- even when he savages the GOP, it will not be a day or two (if it isn’t even in the same post) where he will bend over backwards condemning Democrats doing the same thing. Half the time there is no comparison, but he has to make it anyway, because, you know, the Democrats are worse.
With Rick, you always have to remember- The Democrats are worse. Period.
cbear
Snoozing? Nah, that
parrotman is not snoozing. He’s only resting his eyes.Tiparillo
Bush the Elder Does the Dap
passerby
You’re right Moar, we (the US) have not been able to pull off getting jail time for these criminals and traitors…left to our current congress and courts. BUT, I take heart knowing that under the Bush administration, all kinds of market and banking fraud/theft has occurred that takes the fight beyond US borders.
The world (especially Chinese Bankers) is no longer going to allow the Bush gang to rape, pillage and plunder in foreign banks. So, although our controlled-by-lobbyists congress sit impotently waiting for…what?…waiting for courage?…waiting for the “right time”?…waiting to grow some cojones? , while they wait, some power agent on the world stage will act and the dominoes will fall. (yes, I mean to say Bush/Cheney will be removed from office, legally–not a coup.)
There’s quite a rabbit hole of offshore (untaxable) accounts and off the books black budget stuff that’s finding its way into a few private accounts. The world has had enough of this. Stay tuned.
Exciting times.
T
w vincentz
passerby,
The waiting sucks. No doubt. We’ve waited for 7 1/2 years after the SCOTUS appointed their guy. Daddy had a lot to do with it. If nothing was learned from that time, my guess is that a whole lot of people missed it.
Elections don’t count.
If a candidate (like RFK) gets cutting too close to the bone, the outcome is real and immediate.
I sure as hell hope that that fate doesn’t await Barack, though Hillary hinted about it.
This is not a fucking game.
There are quite a few that don’t know the rules, or if there are any rules, they make them up along the way.
Criminals…for sure.
“Exciting times”?
It’s more than that, though I’m not sure I can put it into words.
I’ll end this “rant” with words spoken to me a long time ago by someone in the Gambino family.
“The longer the wait, the sweeter it tastes.”
w vincentz
Here we go. The White House has withdrawn from the UN Human Rights council to avoid the iminent accustions of being “WAR CRIMINALS”.
Link:
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/357
Snarki, child of Loki
And in a phone call to the Obama Whitehouse, soon after 21 Jan 2009:
Aide: “Mr. President, it’s the Prime Minister of Australia on line 3”
Pres.O: “Hello, President Obama speaking”
PMoA: “G’Day, Mr. President. Congratulations and all that. By the by, we were just wondering if we could have our kangaroos back.”
Pres.O: “Kanagroos?”
PMoA: “Yes, they were cooped up in Gitmo for some reason. Any way you could send them home?”
Pres.O: “I’ll get someone on it right away, but it may take a few weeks. Is that okay?”
PMoA: “No worries! Thanks, it’s really appreciated. Ta!”
passerby
It’s not a game to us, wvin, but for those who seek to, literally, rule the world, THEY have been playing at it for…centuries??
I suspect that there are far more good guys (in the military, in politics, in law enforcement—AND not just in the US) than we are allowed to know about. Hell, some of them may even be playing along until the trap can be sprung.
Speaking of trap, Nancy Pelosi had me gnashing my teeth last year with her “impeachment is off the table” thing. But, I read an article on HUffPo, the only site which offered this idea: (the Title was something like this) MAYBE PELOSI’S DOING THE RIGHT THING.
I regret that I don’t remember the author’s name but, he was suggesting that declaring impeachment off the table actually would embolden the bush cabal and that eventually they’d be given enough rope to hang themselves. It’s subtle, but, I can see how it WOULD work with these arrogant tyrants.
Now Scottie’s agreed to testify in congress and Kucinich is once again introducing articles of impeachment–in prime time. chipping away at the cracks.
T
TenguPhule
My sole warming thought is that Iraqis can hold grudges forever. And that every Republican stooge and shitheel and their family trees to the umpteenth generation are now marked in blood.
And the very precendents Bush grabbed can be used by a future Iraqi government to excuse any messy accidents commited by their citizens on foreign ‘terrorist leaders’ who attacked their country without provocation.
TenguPhule
That’s what our CIA is for.
Rope a dope.
Chuck Butcher
The image of GWB, et al, in orange jumpsuits and manacles is quite appealing to me and it ain’t ever gonna happen. Wealth and power looks out for itself. You would be asking an entire system to turn against its enablers to go there. They might actually be shunned by thinking people, if that’s consolation. They’ll be able to draw crowds without those, anyhow.
Take a look at what life failures have occurred for their retired clique. They’re all jobless and broke, right?
Nixon is a dirty word in certain circles, so he died broke, fiendless, and despised by all? Nope.
We’d like to believe the ( R )s are headed for the political wilderness. The current analysis is 6-8 seats in the Senate, maybe. That’s not enough to stop a filibuster. Most of Congress will be the same old same old people that’ve been there doing favors for years.
I keep rooting around in the system trying to fight with what tools I have. I’ve been a lefty for all of my life and I watch people who are supposed to be my allies be stupid because some issues are supposed to be “right” and I just shake my head and dig in again. But I don’t engage in flights of fantasy that its all going to be real good – this time around.
There is available 250 years of history to tell you how popagandized this country is. You don’t need to read some left wing historian to get it, you only need to follow the facts from enough sectors to connect the dots, but who has time and from there some “poplular history” book will do, or maybe the pap from high school. Social and economic change comes from the bottom up and you can’t elect candidates that see and understand because most of this country doesn’t. So it goes on, as it has, with little shifts this way and that. Control history and you control thought.
Ask your acquaintances if they know anything about Chicago 1886 and Haymarket Square and police and economics.