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You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Previous Site Maintenance / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  June 12, 200810:04 pm| 109 Comments

This post is in: Previous Site Maintenance

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Look, I am not saying I disagree with the general content of Olbermann’s “Special Comments,” but they are so god damned smug and overwrought that they are completely unwatchable for me. And I genuinely think the guy is a good thing for the news, and love his normal Countdown’s.

And I know have agreed and disagreed with him in the past, but really, when I watch these special comments, all I can think is “You should have stayed with “Put the biscuit in the basket.””

Flame on.

John +4

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109Comments

  1. 1.

    Delia

    June 12, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    When he first started they were great. He was taking on Rumsfeld and Bush and all the jerks and bad guys when no one else in teeveeland would. Now he’s kind of jumped the shark. I didn’t see the one tonight, but I did think the last one on Hillary was kind of over the top.

  2. 2.

    Wini

    June 12, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    John,

    I think I agree with you. I didn’t see tonight’s (was turning myself into Wini +4), but when he announced it last night I cringed just a little.

    Cheers,
    Wini

  3. 3.

    ed

    June 12, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Word.

    Except that KO’s about the only person on teevee saying anything close to what needs to be said. So he’s got that going for him.

    To his enduring credit, in one of those unwatchable solo self-righteous fests, Olbermann correctly noted that Bush’s relationship with the Telecoms met the definition of fascism*, and called him on it. Haven’t seen that anywhere but my side of the internets. Good for him.

    *That would be Mussolini’s definition of fascism, which differs from Jonah Goldberg’s definition. Perhaps Il Pantloado knows more about that particular subject.

  4. 4.

    Natascha

    June 12, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    I don’t know. Maybe something is wrong with me. I thought today’s special comment was great. Who else is going to call McBush out on not having a real vision for Iraq while claiming to be some sort of expert on the matter?

  5. 5.

    ACK

    June 12, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    I have to agree with you. That segment has become unwatchable.

  6. 6.

    jake

    June 12, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    What sort of idle elitist lives do you bastards lead that you’re getting wasted on a Thursday?

    I hate you and hope an onion falls on your head.

    From John McCane’s belt.

  7. 7.

    Incertus

    June 12, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    They’re coming a little too fast and furious these days. They’re called “special” for a reason, and not because they talking about people who belong on the short bus. Too many of them and they lose their oomph.

  8. 8.

    Smudgemo

    June 12, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    At least someone is saying it. I’m already outraged, so maybe the special comments are not for me.

    The evolution of McCain since ’02 (tonight’s) was rather illuminating, though.

  9. 9.

    Wini

    June 12, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Jake,

    I don’t know how to quote (I know!), but to answer your question, I work 40 hrs + attend law school at night.. hence the need for “getting wasted” now and then… unfortunately more “then” than “now”

  10. 10.

    Some guy

    June 12, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    I agree with John. These have become too much for me. Besides, he does them so often, they are hardly special anymore. Edward R. Murrow kept it cool, Olbermann is letting himself overheat and it is costing him effectiveness.

  11. 11.

    Thelonius

    June 12, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    You know, I was going to post an (embedded) link to a Dennis Miller rant as the gold standard of the outraged commentary art form, but all I could find was clips of him defending the Iraq war and appearing on Fox complaining about Democrats. He was always pretty libertarian, but when did Miller turn into a wingnut?

  12. 12.

    EDR333

    June 12, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    I couldn’t agree more. Self-righteousness stinks, whether or not the person is on the money with their premise.

    I do still want my reporting unbiased, and Keith was so over-the-top anti-Hillary (and I was not her biggest fan, by any means) that I hate to see “Special Comments” are coming anymore. Believe me, the facts alone damn Bush, et al, so just report them and leave the indignation to the public.

  13. 13.

    Adrienne

    June 12, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    John, me thinks it is the +4 that has you feeling a certain way about KO. Maybe when the drinks are flowing your dirty little Republican comes out. Keith was on point. I thought his voice was gonna start quivering. Try a little harder to keep your inner republican bottled up!!! LOL.

  14. 14.

    dorkboy

    June 12, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    I hate to be so cynical, but I’ve finally drawn the conclusion that when people get ton of praise for being especially insightful, or courageous, or honest eventually let it get to their heads.

    I’m with you, John, that the content of his comments are worthwhile, but he’s showing signs that he’s beginning to think that he’s bigger than the stories. It’s too bad cuz he’s fighting the good fight most of the time.

    dorkboy -1?

  15. 15.

    Susan

    June 12, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    His comments are annoying, even though I mostly agree with him. I’ve wondered, however, how much of it is the delivery? Wouldn’t a less dramatic presentation be more effective?

  16. 16.

    passerby

    June 12, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    He needed to condense tonight’s comment down to 5 minutes. It went on for 11 minutes and felt more like a tedious lecture.

    And ditto what incertus said. They’re not “special” if presented too frequently.

    T

  17. 17.

    nightjar

    June 12, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    Sometimes I think KO lays heavy on the bombastic in his Special Comments as a way of mocking the O’reilly’s and Limbaugh’s of the world. At least that’s how I take it.

  18. 18.

    Church Lady

    June 12, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    When they were rare, and thus “special”, they generally tended to be absolutely right on the mark and were delivered with a type of controlled fury and rightousness that made them absolutely spot on. No more. These days, they are delivered way too often and in such an over-the-top style as to seem like really bad acting – and I mean really bad. It’s like he’s become a parody of his enemy, Bill O., but operating on an even higher level of anger and outrage. He really is taking himself way too seriously.

    Tonight, I barely paid attention, because it seemed so same old, same old. Keith really needs to dial it back some, if only for his own ratings and popularity. Some in the media, who used to celebrate him, are starting to use terms like “blowhard” and “gasbag” when writing about him. He is becoming what he started out making fun of and, given his obvious ego, I don’t think he will endure the inevitable backlash well.

  19. 19.

    Church Lady

    June 12, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Miller became a wingnut after 9-11. It really freaked him out.

  20. 20.

    Otto Man

    June 12, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    He’s saying important things, and well, but the delivery needs a lot of work. The camera cuts with the dramatic look-up is too much, and the passion — while seemingly sincere — only distracts from the message.

  21. 21.

    jp2

    June 12, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    The reason that it hurts to watch is because…the truth hurts. That being said, it’s hard for me to watch as well.

    Not one person in the entire media establishment takes the deaths of our soldiers seriously. Not one person expresses anger at what has happened. Not one person calls out the GOP on their wholesale BS. Except KO. He’s a bit dramatic, but we should be appreciating what he is doing.

  22. 22.

    John Cole

    June 12, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    John, me thinks it is the +4 that has you feeling a certain way about KO. Maybe when the drinks are flowing your dirty little Republican comes out.

    Trust me. When I get a few drinks in me, my inner liberal comes out, if you know what I mean. Not San Francisco liberal, but, weekend with a bunch of hot chicks after hitting the lottery and “OMG WHO BROUGHT THE PARLIAMENT OF FUNK WHO WANTS A SHOT” liberal.

    KO’s special comments suck. They make me dislike him, when I spend every other time I watch him liking him.

  23. 23.

    misc

    June 12, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    I stop listening to Olberman’s comments after the first minute. If you can’t blow my mind in one minute, you failed the elevator pitch.

  24. 24.

    Church Lady

    June 12, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Keith’s just channeling his inner Howard Beale – he’s mad as hell and he’s not going to take it anymore.

  25. 25.

    Thelonius

    June 12, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    This is my favorite Olbermann commentary: Why does Habeas Corpus hate America? The best part starts at about 5:30 when he figures out the Bill of Rights is now the Bill of Rights. Pure satire.

  26. 26.

    Warren Terra

    June 12, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, I thought I’d throw in a link to John Scalzi’s pretty awesome post entitled “Fox News Would Like To Take a Moment To Remind You That the Obamas Are As Black As Satan’s Festering, Baby-Eating Soul”, the content of which is fairly self-explanatory from the title.

  27. 27.

    SamFromUtah

    June 12, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    weekend with a bunch of hot chicks after hitting the lottery and “OMG WHO BROUGHT THE PARLIAMENT OF FUNK WHO WANTS A SHOT” liberal.

    …heh, OK, but those things strike me as pretty apolitical.

  28. 28.

    OriGuy

    June 12, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Scalzi really does know how to write. I liked this bit

    Michelle Malkin will continue to make excuses for Fox News’ dog-whistling racism that expose the fact that she’s about as familiar with logical thinking as a rainbow trout is with knitting….

  29. 29.

    Max Power

    June 12, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    ed:

    Except that KO’s about the only person on teevee saying anything close to what needs to be said.

    Yep. There is that.

    His presentation is unusual and perhaps over-the-top (although tonight’s was more muted) but that’s a reflection of the times and events.

    It’s a “if you’re not mad, you’re not paying attention” kind of thing.

  30. 30.

    Fern

    June 12, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    I might have an opinion on KO’s content if I could get past the style – way too theatrical and over the top and self-congratulatory for my taste.

    No, actually, I take that back. I don’t like reading them either. They sound preachery even when you read them.

  31. 31.

    Koz

    June 12, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Keith Olbermann just plain sux, seven days a week and twice on Sunday. The format of his show doesn’t make that much difference.

  32. 32.

    TenguPhule

    June 12, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    It takes a lot of repetition to get anything into the vast gulf of stupid that is America.

    KO has to keep it up because the outrages are real, the crimes are real and still nobody does anything.

    It is enough to drive the mad into horrible sanity.

  33. 33.

    Adrienne

    June 12, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    John
    I must admit that I am very flattered that you responded to my comment. You see, I’m relatively new to the blogosphere and it is little things like this that just warms my little soul and makes me feel welcome.
    Really though, I love KO’s comments what I hate is the über dramatic camera angles. Other than that I think he’s awesome for no other reason than his being the best thing the left has on tv to counter that crazy bat shit looney goon ball on fox who shall remain nameless. When msnbc gets their damn act together and gives Rachel Maddow her own show my mind may change, of course…

  34. 34.

    reid

    June 12, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    With you. There were a few very, very good ones in the beginning, on topics that seemed like they were important enough to warrant a “special comment”. Recent ones just don’t seem like they deserve the drama. In this case, while I think he’s generally right about McCain, I don’t like how he (and other lefties) tees off on a phrase that’s been taken a bit out of context. It feels too much like the usual silly-ass politics, which is annoying no matter the source.

  35. 35.

    Tyro

    June 13, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don’t. His first Special Comment in the wake of Hurricane Katrina was excellent. But the most hilarious takedown of his “Special Comments” was part of a montage documenting various (unfair, in the opinion of the compilers) anti-Hillary jabs made by media personalities. KO’s anti-Hillary Special Comment begins with its usual bluster, and then the audio goes silent in mid-bluster and the caption “Actor Portraying Edward Morrow” appears underneath.

  36. 36.

    patroclus

    June 13, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Well, Keith is over the top for sure, but this administrations’ Vaffanculo to the Constitution is far far worse. The attempted destruction of habeus corpus, the worldwide gulag, the misuse of National Security letters, the warrantless domestic eavesdropping, the torture, the signing statements, the politicization of the Justice Department, the fake prosecutions, the voter suppression efforts, the ignoring of congressional subpoenas, the WMD lies, the unprovoked military invasion and never-ending occupation of Iraq…

    are kinda serious thangs. Just saying…

  37. 37.

    ThymeZone

    June 13, 2008 at 12:09 am

    I havent scanned the thread, so if this is redundant or whatever, then shoot my ass.

    But smug? SMUG? What on the planet could be more SMUG than the shitty thing McCain said which triggered the special comment?

    Somebody should slug that smug motherfucker in the face.

    Keith tried to do it verbally, and landed the punch AFAIC.

  38. 38.

    Turgidson

    June 13, 2008 at 12:13 am

    Yeah, he’s gotten carried away lately. When he first started doing the special comments, they were so awesome I could barely stand it. Now…he’s still saying a lot of good and important things, but he overplays the anger/rage card. If he could stay stoic like his hero Murrow, but try to build up to one moment of fury at the end, it would be more powerful than the “rabid anger for 10 straight minutes” thing he does now. His early comments pulled this off better.

    Still love the guy overall. I don’t think he was anti-Clinton until she started creating alternate realities and trying to smear the presumptive nominee with every disingenuous thing she could. In other words, while jagoffs like Tweety and others were being misogynist douchebags the whole time, I don’t think Keith went full bore negative on Hillary until she started doing things to deserve it on a daily basis.

  39. 39.

    Turgidson

    June 13, 2008 at 12:19 am

    Also, I thought this particular Comment was a bit better than some other recent ones. He stuck to the somber delivery, and while it went on too long, the direction he took it was surprisingly good to me. I was afraid when I heard he was doing a special comment on the “not too important” stuff that it would be a total trainwreck of fury at something that definitely deserved scrutiny but wasn’t worth having an aneurysm about. He pulled it off better than I thought this time. I do think he’s doing them too often now, though.

  40. 40.

    The Other Steve

    June 13, 2008 at 12:24 am

    I see the Marines are throwing the asshat who tossed the puppy over the cliff out of the Corps.

    right thing to do, someone like that doesn’t have the compassion necessary to be part of the US military.

  41. 41.

    Punchy

    June 13, 2008 at 12:26 am

    Trust me. When I get a few drinks in me, my inner liberal comes out, if you know what I mean. Not San Francisco liberal, but, weekend with a bunch of hot chicks after hitting the lottery and “OMG WHO BROUGHT THE PARLIAMENT OF FUNK WHO WANTS A SHOT” liberal.

    That’s not called being liberal, that’s called being SINGLE.

  42. 42.

    Garrigus Carraig

    June 13, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Late to the party, but no one said it: I’m not sure the Juice commentariat is the target audience for KO’s overblown (though sensible in content, the few I’ve seen) Special Comment. I think the target audience is not quite as smart as this group. Myself excepted; I ain’t that smart.

  43. 43.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 12:37 am

    Personally I love the special comments, although tonight’s left me feeling like he didn’t quite hit the mark.

    I agree the the more they put these out the more chance they become boring and not as fantastic as they once were. There was a moment there where Keith looked like he felt a little insecure and it really hit home for me. I think tonight’s special comment segment was not anywhere near as great as they used to be. It didn’t seem to be as hard hitting as normal and less researched. It also seemed quite a bit shorter than some of the greater ones he’s done.

    I think they realized these comments had marketing magic and so they’re doing them more for the ratings now than for anything else. I am sad the special comments have lost some of their appeal.

    Less often – more research, more hard hitting facts would put them back where they need to be. It felt a bit cheap tonight.

  44. 44.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 12:42 am

    Keith tried to do it verbally, and landed the punch AFAIC.

    Sorry hon but I have to disagree with you, I don’t think he really landed the mark this time. McCain leaves so many openings for ridicule that I think it could have been researched much better and McCain could have been totally pummeled and that didn’t happen as far as I can see. It felt like they threw it together (and Keith is definitely showing the anger in these comments these days, and I think him pushing the point without the anger gets better results, personally).

  45. 45.

    reid

    June 13, 2008 at 12:43 am

    To clarify my position: I think Keith has been about the best thing on TV now; The Daily Show and Colbert are as good, but they seem somehow different. But Keith isn’t perfect. I post my constructive criticisms on BJ in order to improve him, and, therefore, the world. Constructively criticizing Keith should not be inferred as lumping him in the with Bushes and Cheneys of the world, nor should it be taken to mean that it’s more important to improve Keith than railing against the great evils of the world.

    1. His questions to guests are often too long and rambling.

    2. More and more, his questions show an obvious bias. Even when I agree with his bias, I don’t like him loading his questions.

    3. His head seems to be swelling.

    4. Even though I’m a lefty, I get tired of the lefty bias in the content. I don’t look forward to the first segment every night between now and November dissecting McCain’s statements earlier in the day. Even if he’s right.

    Yes, I think I’m starting to burn out a bit on the Olbernatorr.

  46. 46.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 12:48 am

    KO has to keep it up because the outrages are real, the crimes are real and still nobody does anything.

    When Congress is no longer beholden to special interests, then and ONLY then will you see anybody do anything about any of this. I’m sorry to say, I think the American experiment has failed miserably in that regard.

  47. 47.

    reid

    June 13, 2008 at 12:48 am

    P.S. Posting at +0 despite the +5ness of the grammar above.

  48. 48.

    Tom in Texas

    June 13, 2008 at 12:52 am

    Personally it’s not just that they do a comment once a week that annoys me — it’s that they advertise it every five fucking minutes.

    “Coming up at the end of the show — Keith’s Special Comment.”
    “Don’t go anywhere — we’ll be right back with a special comment for John McCain.”

    I get what MSNBC is doing, but the schtick is getting kind of old. That sappy ad featuring Chris Matthews blathering about being an American just irritates the bejeezum out of me.

  49. 49.

    pjanson

    June 13, 2008 at 12:52 am

    I think there are a few problems with Olbermann and his Special Comments. They’re overwrought – but so is everything on US television.

    In my country (Australia) a Bill O’Reilly or Olbermann style show would be laughed off the air, or at least, would be too confrontational in terms of graphics, flashing pictures and blaring noises, tickers running down the bottom, etc etc etc.

    Olbermann is obviously no pun intended, channeling Ed Murrow. It’s known that he idolises Murrow.

    The difference is that Murrow had reported during World War II in the Blitz, he’d reported from the concentration camps, etc. He’d established himself firmly as a trusted foreign correspondent in the American mindset.

    When he started his television program, and took on McCarthy, he ‘won’ in a sense because of his own reputation (and also obviously because of what McCarthy was doing).

    Furthermore Murrow’s show didn’t get very good ratings which is why he did those celebrity interviews with Liberace and such.

    Murrow was pretty dry stuff in comparison to today’s news. Hell, all news then was dry: most often it was a guy reading the news. Today it’s very different, and Olbermann’s comments correspond with what his producers want, and what his viewers want.

    So people like special comments that are exaggerated and over the top and at times pompous. Olbermann’s ideas are noble and he’s saying what needs to be said – but unfortunately, in this day and age, he’s marked off as a liberal by the right-wing because of what he says, just as much as the way he says it.

    And if he said it differently, if he wasn’t as overwrought, maybe he wouldn’t get the ratings? Who knows.

    Murrow didn’t aim at targets as broad or numerous. Olbermann tries.

  50. 50.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 12:53 am

    I see the Marines are throwing the asshat who tossed the puppy over the cliff out of the Corps.

    Does that mean the puppy was real and was alive? Or just the show of impropriety caused his superiors to think twice about his future service?

  51. 51.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 12:57 am

    Murrow was pretty dry stuff in comparison to today’s news. Hell, all news then was dry: most often it was a guy reading the news. Today it’s very different, and Olbermann’s comments correspond with what his producers want, and what his viewers want.

    I’ve often wondered how Murrow would report today’s news.

  52. 52.

    Michael Gass

    June 13, 2008 at 12:58 am

    I’m very pleased with Olbermann, even, his special comments.

    Go to CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, FAUX News… you name it… Matthews, Russert, etc… and you get tripe. Olbermann is doing the smackdown. Granted, it STARTED with The Daily Show and Jon Stewart, but, I’m GLAD somebody else started calling it is; BS.

    So, Olbermann has a platform and he goes off on a special comment. Some may be home-runs, some not. At least he’s SPEAKING OUT WITH THE TRUTH.

    Where else do you get that from???

  53. 53.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 1:06 am

    but when did Miller turn into a wingnut?

    About the same time Bill Maher started dating Ann Coulter?

  54. 54.

    Studly Pantload

    June 13, 2008 at 1:58 am

    Mrs. Pantload and I call ’em the “Special Rants.” We also usually joke about needing to eat dinner before viewing, lest we wind up feeling we need to go to bed w/o supper after the stern lecture.

    Yeah, he can go over the top.

    Once or twice, aided and abetted by a few glasses of wine, after KO’s comments I’ve gone to the window and shouted loud as I can, “IMAHAINGTTAM!”

    I didn’t feel it after the Hill-o-Rant (much as her evolving tactics did drive me to distraction), and tonight’s offering, while I appreciated is subdued-ness, was still overly dramatic.

    But — spot on. As they usually are.

  55. 55.

    mannemalon

    June 13, 2008 at 2:43 am

    I gotta disagree with the majority. I love pretty much each and every one of them.

    I can see why some would get annoyed by them, but I think they’re necessary, especially given our media.

    Keith is great.

  56. 56.

    Conservatively Liberal

    June 13, 2008 at 6:33 am

    I generally like what he says, but this could have been condensed into an regular ‘report’. There was really no need for this special comment, IMO. That, and the theatrics with the camera angles and such detract from the delivery. It is hard to listen when he does a change, and right when you should be listening to him instead you are thinking ‘I wouldn’t have done that, it looks phony’. Straight in to the camera, screw the cuts for flair. If his words are not enough to involve you, then it is a waste of time.

    But I do like KO, especially compared to the rest of our dismal MSM. He is one of a kind in our time, but he is overdoing it at times when there is no need to do so.

    Some statistics from Hillaryis44:

    Total posts in thread for 6/11: 555
    Total ‘individuals’ posting: 54

    Most posts by one user: 82 (just under 15%)

    Number of users who posted 10 posts or more: 18
    Total posts by users who posted 10 posts or more: 435

    Number of users who posted less than 10 posts: 36
    Total posts by users who posted less than 10 posts: 120

    Top five posters post total: 238
    Top Ten posters post total: 333

    In other words, lots of jaw flapping by a few people. I am compiling data going back to January from certain events that should drive traffic in (primaries, he said/she said, controversy and so on), and the good news is that since February (Super Tuesday), the number of ‘unique’ posters has been steadily dropping. They have been condensed into the ‘worst of the worst’ now, and it will be interesting to see if the trend reverses or if it continues to decline.

    The admin at His44 is happy that they are getting tons of traffic at the site, but I bet most of it is people like me who are just enjoying the non-stop train wreck that the place is. For the 800,000 number he was tossing out for the last month, looking at the number of posters there, it sure ain’t Hillary supporters who are driving the numbers up.

  57. 57.

    shermandem

    June 13, 2008 at 6:37 am

    I wish there were 10 good commentators providing a nuanced criticism of the issues KO takes on. For me, the discomfort I feel when I watch his Special Comments is the sort of discomfort I feel when someone stands up in a crowded hall and speaks their mind regardless of who else agrees.

    As much as I am ambivalent about the tone and quantity of each Special Comment, I worry more that the criticism (and the carping) create a chilling effect on the Russerts and Gregorys who have made careers of putting the face of reasonableness on faux news and focus-group vetted press releases. The collective reaction by “mainstream media” to Moyers’ criticism last fall and now to McClelland’s new book is shameful, making it clear to me that Keith is working alone, without a net, and doing something that is more closely aligned with Edward R. Murrow than the big-time pundits who claim to share in the legacy of reporters and commentators who dared to speak truth when it was risky to do so.

    The criticisms of Olbermann are more likely to create a chilling effect on others who dare to speak their truths. I don’t think it will have any effect on KO directly, any more than it will on David Brooks, William Kristol, or Pat Buchanan. Their distortions are still distortions even if they are offered with smugness and self-assumed gravitas. Until these imabalances are fixed, I am prepared to give Keith Olbermann a lot of slack.

  58. 58.

    hifyer

    June 13, 2008 at 6:54 am

    The problem a lot of pundits/bloggers/news folk have with KO’s special comments is that it does call them to task for not taking on the issue themselves. KO definitely has a nonwavering internal moral compass, a extremely gifted writing ability, and knowledge far beyond the ‘sports guy’ image he was known for years back. Of course some may think that this one or that one is over the top….they are blatantly designed to get folks to talk. The problem is when folks fall for the old GOP trick of shooting the messenger because they cannot fault the message.

  59. 59.

    Justin

    June 13, 2008 at 7:30 am

    I’m not a fan of the special comment either. But I think I could handle it more if it was truly special and not something he did once a week.

  60. 60.

    Mary

    June 13, 2008 at 7:40 am

    A video tutorial for pasty white people: the fist bump.

  61. 61.

    Clutch414

    June 13, 2008 at 7:57 am

    I like his Special Comments. I’m glad SOMEONE is still outraged by this fucking nonsense.

    I wish more talking heads would get outraged by the criminal bullshit that has been happening the past eight years.

  62. 62.

    Bh-Buck

    June 13, 2008 at 8:20 am

    “…but they are so god damned smug and overwrought that they are completely unwatchable for me.”

    “Now he’s kind of jumped the shark.”

    “I think I agree with you.”

    …etc, etc, etc.

    I thought it was just me… I’M NOT ALONE!
    :-)

  63. 63.

    Balakirev

    June 13, 2008 at 8:23 am

    John, if we weren’t drowning in 7+ years of criminal negligence and graft on an unprecedented scale from our federal government, I’d agree with you. But the sheer, overwhelming hatred I have for what is allowed to occur every day in DC finds an excellent vent in Olbermann. What you call smug, I call a slap-down tirade against those who deserve far, far worse, and will probably get off, instead, with honorary awards and fellowships.

  64. 64.

    Jack H.

    June 13, 2008 at 8:29 am

    They are a tad overwrought for me. The recent golf and Hillary/JFK ones made me roll my eyes, and I’m a commie.
    Still, having a foil for all those shrill right wing voices is probably a good thing.

  65. 65.

    Dug Jay

    June 13, 2008 at 8:29 am

    I liked the e-mails that one of his ex girlfriends put out a couple of years ago. I remember the really cruel one in which she told a girl friend that “Keith’s dick was inadequate to satisfy a chihuahua.” That is nasty stuff.

  66. 66.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 13, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Thelonius, it was during OJ. It was a period of time that allowed allegedly liberal acts to migrate to their rightful reactionary nests. A very curious time in the annals of agitprop. Or maybe the anals of agitprop.

  67. 67.

    JR

    June 13, 2008 at 8:49 am

    Try reading the transcripts of them: I’m guessing that will greatly improve them for you.

    I generally think he does too many of them (and I hate that we now pretend they’ve always been Murrow-esque attacks on government excess: wasn’t his post-Peter Jennings death commentary on his oral cancer scare, readable and viewable about halfway down this page, the first one?), but I think last night’s was quite simply a tour de force. It was a brutal takedown of McCain.

  68. 68.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 13, 2008 at 8:51 am

    John, living in the SF Bay Area, I was baffled about your “San Francisco liberal” comment. I guess we all have a San Francisco of the mind, but I’m wondering if I’m not a liberal at all here. My “liberalness” centers around individual rights and economic justice, but maybe I was wrong.

    Also, what did Olbermann say? I missed it. I don’t watch the talking heads on the cables unless they’re standing in front of election return boards.

  69. 69.

    KXB

    June 13, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Olbermann seemed more calm than his last two comments, which was welcome. But he’d still be better off if he did it only with the change of the seasons.

  70. 70.

    Clutch414

    June 13, 2008 at 8:59 am

    I liked the e-mails that one of his ex girlfriends put out a couple of years ago. I remember the really cruel one in which she told a girl friend that “Keith’s dick was inadequate to satisfy a chihuahua.” That is nasty stuff.

    And why are you soooo concerned about the size of KO’s dick? Oh, yeah…you’re a conservative…never mind.

    People are discussing the content and delivery of his comments and you bring up his penis size. Too appropriate. LOL

  71. 71.

    Josh B.

    June 13, 2008 at 8:59 am

    John-

    I think this point probably would have been better made in the aftermath of the RFK/Assasination Special Comment from KO, which was one of the few times where I really felt that the overall theatrics and histrionics of the piece overshadowed the context of the comment (especially given that the context of that particular comment was pretty stupid to begin with). I thought last night’s one was actually pretty nuanced and under control, myself…

  72. 72.

    Dug Jay

    June 13, 2008 at 9:24 am

    Come on, Clutch….everyone here knows that your first love is a great big DXXK. And according to ThymeZone, word on the street is that you like them LARGE.

  73. 73.

    John Cole

    June 13, 2008 at 9:27 am

    John, living in the SF Bay Area, I was baffled about your “San Francisco liberal” comment. I guess we all have a San Francisco of the mind, but I’m wondering if I’m not a liberal at all here. My “liberalness” centers around individual rights and economic justice, but maybe I was wrong.

    Bob- it was a joke. “San Francisco liberal” is a smear right-wingers have been using for years. Most recently they used it on Pelosi when she became Speaker.

  74. 74.

    slag

    June 13, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Not San Francisco liberal, but, weekend with a bunch of hot chicks after hitting the lottery and “OMG WHO BROUGHT THE PARLIAMENT OF FUNK WHO WANTS A SHOT” liberal.

    I believe you are confusing “frat boy” with liberal. Although the fact that you’re referring to consensual heterosexual relations does put you more on the liberal side of frat boy.

    Agreed about some of KO’s theatrics. He’d do well to tone it down a bit.

  75. 75.

    The Moar You Know

    June 13, 2008 at 9:35 am

    John Cole Says:

    John, living in the SF Bay Area, I was baffled about your “San Francisco liberal” comment. I guess we all have a San Francisco of the mind, but I’m wondering if I’m not a liberal at all here. My “liberalness” centers around individual rights and economic justice, but maybe I was wrong.

    Bob- it was a joke. “San Francisco liberal” is a smear right-wingers have been using for years. Most recently they used it on Pelosi when she became Speaker.

    I was a resident for many years. Frankly, San Francisco is not terribly liberal – way too much money living there for that. I know the Reichtards have been using it as a smear, but I’d like to see the meme die the quiet death that it deserves.

  76. 76.

    The Moar You Know

    June 13, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Dug Jay Says:

    Come on, Clutch….everyone here knows that your first love is a great big DXXK. And according to ThymeZone, word on the street is that you like them LARGE.

    Implying someone is homosexual is not a slur to those of us who don’t give a shit about what one does with their plumbing, Jay.

    You want to insult liberals? Imply that we support the same things you do.

  77. 77.

    Cali Scribe

    June 13, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Just keep in mind that under an Obama Administration, there won’t be the need for as many of them as we’ve had under Republican misrule.

  78. 78.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 13, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Sorry for the misunderstanding, John. My snark alarm doesn’t work before my second cup of coffee, a true disadvantage when posting from the pacific time zone.

  79. 79.

    Scrutinizer

    June 13, 2008 at 9:50 am

    when I watch these special comments, all I can think is “You should have stayed with “Put the biscuit in the basket.”

    That reminded me immediately of this classic bit. Which has some graphic images btw, and is probably NSFW.

    And yes, KO gets awfully pompous and shrill in his Special Comments. I always imagine that’s what BO would sound like if he were a liberal.

  80. 80.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Dug Jay Says:

    Come on, Clutch….everyone here knows that your first love is a great big DXXK. And according to ThymeZone, word on the street is that you like them LARGE.

    Oh, that’s really classic! You can’t spell out the word “DICK” but you can insinuate TZ is gay when he had nothing to do with this conversation. That’s really classy of you asshole. I can assure you TZ is not gay, and I can also assure you that you’re a prick!

  81. 81.

    montysano

    June 13, 2008 at 10:04 am

    In a week where I’ve had the following exchanges with co-workers and friends:

    – “If universal health care meant some sacrifice and inconvenience, wouldn’t it be worth it to know that your fellow citizens, your 50M brothers and sisters, are taken care of?” Answer: “No, it wouldn’t”.

    – Re: yesterday’s SCOTUS ruling: “It’s highly possible that we’ve had people locked up at Guantanomo for years, without due process, who are completely innocent.” Answer: “Fuck ’em. I don’t care.”

    This has left me badly rattled. So, to the topic at hand: yes, some of KO’s “Comments” have been overwrought. The most recent was quite good. In any case, I’ll take whatever I can get. Someone has to say something.

    Re: the SCOTUS ruling, riddle me this: what is the terrible downside of this that has the Right in such a rage? I listened to local talk radio on the way home last night, and people were absolutely unhinged about it (esp. after I weighed in). Am I just so liberal that I can’t see the problem?

  82. 82.

    Rome Again

    June 13, 2008 at 10:15 am

    Re: the SCOTUS ruling, riddle me this: what is the terrible downside of this that has the Right in such a rage? I listened to local talk radio on the way home last night, and people were absolutely unhinged about it (esp. after I weighed in). Am I just so liberal that I can’t see the problem?

    Fear not monty, the problem is certainly not with you. The problem is with a blood-sucking concept that all terrorists (and those who are in Gitmo are assuredly terrorist or they wouldn’t be there) must die!

    It’s a mindblowing concept, I realize, but there it is.

    Sick shit, huh?

  83. 83.

    Cris

    June 13, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Miller became a wingnut after 9-11. It really freaked him out.

    Could have been Monday Night Football, too.

  84. 84.

    4tehlulz

    June 13, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Am I just so liberal that I can’t see the problem?

    No, they were just told that they have to treat these people like human beings, and sociopaths cannot handle that idea; therefore, the RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGE.

    Deep down, they really don’t give a shit about guilt or innocence, or whether this could prevent another attack. They just like the idea of a government that lives out their sick fantasies for them.

  85. 85.

    Dug Jay

    June 13, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Rome Again confesses to the love that dare not speak its name. How touching and rare to find such candor on a blog.

  86. 86.

    Don

    June 13, 2008 at 10:36 am

    His comments are annoying, even though I mostly agree with him. I’ve wondered, however, how much of it is the delivery? Wouldn’t a less dramatic presentation be more effective?

    Precisely. The content is actually pretty good, and the sort of thing that a lot of Americans have been wanting to hear from the media for a long time. KO gets too overwrought. Watch some footage of Murrow sometime and pay attention to how his even, measured tones are appropriate to the gravity and seriousness of the events he’s reporting on. KO obviously models himself on Murrow, he should go back and pay more attention to the presentation.

  87. 87.

    Stephen1947

    June 13, 2008 at 10:45 am

    I usually watch the ‘special comments’ on Crooks & Liars, which is where I get most of my experience of KO – like most people here, I’m glad that he exists and that he tells it like it is – but I’ve been put off by his demeanor since long before the Hillary rant (with the content of which I was in solid agreement).

    It’s like with Michael Moore – I’m glad he does what he does and has a platform for it, but somehow I wish that message could be delivered without the Moore meanstreak or the KO high dudgeon – and I really wish he’d lay off of ‘good night and good luck’ – it’s the part of the schtick that makes its schtickiness most apparent!

  88. 88.

    montysano

    June 13, 2008 at 10:50 am

    It’s like with Michael Moore – I’m glad he does what he does and has a platform for it, but somehow I wish that message could be delivered without the Moore meanstreak or the KO high dudgeon

    Can we add the Code Pink “Look at meee, I’m on teevee in a congressional hearing” to the list?

  89. 89.

    Nick

    June 13, 2008 at 10:54 am

    John, I am with you. These things are cringeworthy … and at 11-12 minutes, about 7-8 too long. They border on parody … a shame, really, because the subject matter needs as much exposure as we can get.

  90. 90.

    Krista

    June 13, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Dug Jay Says:

    Rome Again confesses to the love that dare not speak its name. How touching and rare to find such candor on a blog.

    June 13th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Did you fall on your head lately? You’re more retarded than usual.

  91. 91.

    Bill H

    June 13, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Olbermann’s comments correspond with what his producers want, and what his viewers want.

    KO has no clue what his viewers want, and if he knew he wouldn’t care. His show is about him.

    Don’t misunderstand, I like KO quite a lot. I just don’t adore him like many of his fans seem to. Seems I have lots of company in that at BJ. When he says he has a “Special Comment” coming up I groan. I usually, well pretty much always, agree with the content of it, but the delivery is so egotistical that I find it difficult to watch.

    It is also starting to annoy me that when he is asking questions of his “guests” he stammers like a jackhammer. I think that’s supposed to be part of his “style” but…

  92. 92.

    mike in dc

    June 13, 2008 at 11:20 am

    He could tone it down a notch, shorten them, and space them out more. Once a month is probably about the right frequency, 6 to 8 minutes about the right length, and the rise in anger should be limited to about once or twice per SC, not once a minute. Even so, I thought his close was the most effective part of last night’s SC.

  93. 93.

    Sharon

    June 13, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I’m in this camp:

    John, if we weren’t drowning in 7+ years of criminal negligence and graft on an unprecedented scale from our federal government, I’d agree with you. But the sheer, overwhelming hatred I have for what is allowed to occur every day in DC finds an excellent vent in Olbermann. What you call smug, I call a slap-down tirade against those who deserve far, far worse, and will probably get off, instead, with honorary awards and fellowships.

    Some of his comments have brought tears to my eyes. Is passion about how far this country has fallen really “cringeworthy”. I think it’s a bit sick how apathetic people have become.

  94. 94.

    Sharon

    June 13, 2008 at 11:26 am

    OK, now how do you close blockquotes??

  95. 95.

    Redleg

    June 13, 2008 at 11:28 am

    I too see a bit of smugness and over-the-top emotionality in Olberman but I forgive those small foibles because he is really the only major host who dares to tell the truth. Olberman does what others are afraid to do and for that he deserves our thanks.

  96. 96.

    Sloegin

    June 13, 2008 at 11:32 am

    His Hillary ‘assassination’ special comment was completely unwatchable, and yeah, he really does need to pare his rants in half.

    While the last couple minutes of the John McCain comment weren’t that bad, they would have made a better segment than ‘special comment’.

    These are nits however; until Rachael Maddow gets her own show, KO still manages to beat everything out in TV land.

  97. 97.

    Thelonius

    June 13, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Could have been Monday Night Football, too.

    I’m one of the very few who really liked Miller on MNF. The best part was the day after analysis on Britannica.com (long gone, alas, but still available here thanks to the WorldWide Leader.)

    My personal favorite:

    The set-up: Rookie Rams defensive tackle Ryan Pickett commits a personal foul on Miami quarterback Mike Quinn.

    The quip: “That hit was later than Godot.”

  98. 98.

    mapaghimagsik

    June 13, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I think the special comments have gotten overhyped. However, spending 11.5 minutes going over McFlipper’s flips from 2002 to the present is definitely welcome.

    I don’t have the temperment to do Kieth’s job. I think I’d get to the point where I’d be throwing teleprompters around, screaming “What the hell is wrong with you people?” When the answer is nothing, they’re just people, and time and time again its been shown a rather large section of the population is all good with bombing the shit out of another large section of the population.

  99. 99.

    AlphaFactor

    June 13, 2008 at 11:57 am

    So, you find yourself feeling uncertain about Olbermann, eh?

    As it so happens, he feels the same way about himself. He’s admitted that he does feel sorry about being “vociferous”, but he also explains why he thinks doing so is presently necessary and he does a damn convincing job of it.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/12/15/bill-moyers-speaks-with-keith-olbermann-2/

    Be sure to check out the vid.

  100. 100.

    Martin

    June 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Agreed.

    It’s not the message necessarily, but the delivery. I’m receptive to the message, but for me to take it seriously, it need to be delivered as news – not served with O’Reilly’s Special Outrage Sauce. Special comments aren’t how you bring important info to the public – constant, unceasing reporting of facts is what does it.

  101. 101.

    namekarB

    June 13, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Everyone just back off. Keith speaks to ME. His program is for ME. Let me be clear. I hardly ever watch TV, except I record Keith and usually catch 2-3 programs per week. You are talking trash about MY program.

    That having been said, his Hillary rant was too intense and too long and maybe he should change “special” comments to “weekly” comments.

  102. 102.

    Splitting Image

    June 13, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Olbermann seems to be on the right track with most of his complaints, but to be effective as commentary, he has to make at least as big of an impact as Jon Stewart.

    Stewart normally makes the same points Olbermann does, but in far less time and in a way that is far harder to dispute.

    A G.O.P. spokesman can disarm any of Olbermann’s comments by snorting “Olbermann? Who cares what he thinks?” Stewart tends to actually show the hypocrisy onscreen, which keeps the story front and centre.

  103. 103.

    Xenos

    June 13, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Really though, I love KO’s comments what I hate is the über dramatic camera angles.

    There is was something squirrelly with the production last night. The camera angles kept shifting, and one or two seconds after each shift the lighting would dim, which is an old stage trick for indicating increased emotional impact. But it was too obvious and just looked mannered.

    There were so many camera shifts that it really became silly. The discussion sagged severely in the middle when he went off into the weeds about what McCain said when, and the point that McCain is either clueless or careless was too labored to be effective. He brought it around at the end by naming the soldiers who have died in the last ten days, but he had been going on so long I thought he was going to hyperventilate and pass out.

    KO needs an editor. This often happens when someone gets successful and asserts too much control over their work. I love his stuff, but his shtick is getting in the way of the material.

  104. 104.

    capelza

    June 13, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Olbermann when he rants reminds me of a line from a poem called “Advice to a Prophet”…”mad eyed from stating the obvious”. I know how he feels. In a tavern when some looper spouts off that one last completely insane thing about liberals or about how Bush is the greatest president eva or (insert wingnut tidbit)…my husband calls it my “Evita” pose..the arms go up and I shout “Are you really THIS stupid..for fuck’s sake you goddam idiot”.

    Needless to say, I don’t go to taverns much anymore. I’m glad that Olbermann was saying all this time, I’ll cut him some slack for delivery. Btw, I’m still mad as hell, perhaps even more so as the Bush era draws to an end, because he’ll saunter off with a cocky “heh-heh” and the shitpile will be left.

    I’ve got mint in the garden and some nice limes, really liking Mojitos (my Michael Mann period..)..it’s what’s keeping me from going ballistic. So yeah, Keith ain’t Jon Stewart, but then Jon, though I love him, doesn’t serve the same purpose. Keith’s problem is that his very valid messages get lost to many because the messenger is a tad bit dweeby and hyperbolic.

  105. 105.

    Breschau

    June 13, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    I think the topic and material were dead on. The emotion was a bit high, yes – but we’re talking about dead kids and a Presidential candidate who has shown no actual concern for them whatsoever. Isn’t a bit of outrage appropriate here?

    But yes, as Xenos mentioned, the lighting changes were too obvious and distracting. But if we’re trying to compare on a relative scale of 1-10, the importance of the lighting is a 1, while the subject matter is a 15.

  106. 106.

    LanceThruster

    June 13, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Noting that it’s easier to criticize than to actually do, I agree that it would help sell the points if he toned down the histrionics a bit. While I felt the outraged demeaner was wholly appropriate for Special Comments concerning BushCo abuses, these later ones seemed a bit over the top to me (and I’m a fan and supporter of KO).

  107. 107.

    Mwangangi

    June 13, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Nah… I like ’em the way they are.

  108. 108.

    empty

    June 13, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    I like John+x.

  109. 109.

    Koz

    June 14, 2008 at 5:01 am

    You just gotta laugh at people who get apoplectic at Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly but still manage to take Keith Olbermann seriously. It’s easy enough to work yourself into fake righteous anger when you never talk to anyone who might disagree with you.

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