Remember that story last week stating that the Clinton clan kept an enemies list? It was true, as the hiring of former Clinton campaign staffer by Obama is apparently a “slap-in-the-face” to Hillary (via Kevin Drum):
“It’s a slap in the face,” Susie Tompkins Buell, a prominent Clinton backer, said in an interview. “Why would they put somebody that was so clearly ineffective in such a position? It’s a message. We get it.” She said it was a “calculated decision” by the Obama team to “send a message that she [Clinton] is not being considered for the ticket.”
Drum also points to this story that claims hiring her was the biggest “fuck you” in politics ever. Worse even than that Judas mother fucker Bill Richardson, I guess.
So hiring former Clinton staffers is a slap in the face, thinking about nominating a woman other than Clinton as VP is a slap-in-the-face, and, well, pretty much everything is a slap-in-the-face. THE QUEEN BEE DOES NOT HAVE THE NOMINATION, AND EVERYTHING IS A SLAP IN THE FACE.
Here is an idea. Why don’t we ignore these people, who clearly have nothing to offer but petty grievances and playing the victim? Seriously, grow up. As every day goes by, the Clintonistas look more and more like garden variety wingnuts, and should probably be treated as such. Just ignore them or mock them until they decide to stop trying to stir shit up (and it is worth noting that Obama was in talks with Doyle for over a month. This is no surprise to anyone, and back then it was perceived as a sign of reconciliation between the two camps.).
*** Update ***
“Patti will be an asset and good addition to the Obama campaign. After nearly two decades in political life, she brings with her the ability to tap an extensive network that will be a huge asset to Senator Obama. As Senator Clinton has said, we’re all going to do our part to help elect Senator Obama as the next President of the United States,” said spokesman Mo Elleithee.
The Hardball folks (Buchanan and Matthews) seem to perceive it as an insult, as well, fwiw.
*** Update #2 ***
This would be handy:
On another note; if the easily-insulted Clinton supporters would publish a list of those things that they consider a slap in the face things would smooth right out. I’m sure that, in .pdf form, it wouldn’t be larger than eight or nine megabits.
Sadly, the first eight pages will be “Obama must step aside and release his delegates to Hillary.”
“You’re so vain, you probably think this appointment is about you.”
Hiring Patti Solis Doyle, which one can argue is a bad managerial move, is not an insult or a slap in the face to Hillary Clinton. People like Big Tent Democrat at Talk Left and the Clinton dead enders are going to have a melt down when Obama does not pick Hillary Clinton as his Vice Presidential running mate.
That’s really rich, especially because Doyle was only there in the first place because she was a longtime Hillary crony, sorta like their team’s version of Alberto Gonzales or Harriet Miers.
Why do Clinton supporters use violent metaphors like “slap in the face” in reference to a woman like Hillary? J’Accuse!
Ignoring them would be a slap in the face.
Ummmm….I say mock ’em.
Ummm… I suppose this would be a bad time to bring up that idea for an ActBlue contribution link to pay off the Clinton campaign debt that I saw here last week… :)
Ken at 6:32 for the win!
I *still* wanna know how Team O justifies announcing a chief of staff for their veep before – ostensibly, anyways – knowing who their veep’s gonna be.
At least Obama isn’t trying to give Hillary a Jeff Godlstein kind of slap in the face.
WTF? I thought the HRC-as-VP train left the station about two weeks ago when the Clintons declined to name the underwriters for the Big Dog Presidential Library. Did they think that if they just gave BO a couple of weeks he’d think better of it and reconsider?
Nah… Ted at 6:46 for the win!
Dennis - SGMM
These people have been slapped in the face more times than Larry and Curly Joe combined.
Perspective: it’s not just for artists anymore!
O won. He’s in the position where he can be gracious. There was no need to make this Solis-Doyle gesture. It’s gratuitous and is one of those things that can come back to bite his candidacy in the ass.
What’s the point of it? Hillary can’t/won’t be vetted — Obama doesn’t need to worry about her as a VP pick. Why insult her and her loyal followers?
(I’m not in H’s camp. I voted for Edwards in the NH primary, then happily switched to Obama. By the time I had to choose a new candidate, Hillary had taught me not to consider her. Not the press, not sexism, just her way of talking and doing things.)
“Here is an idea. Why don’t we ignore these people, who clearly have nothing to offer but petty grievances and playing the victim?”
Because presumably you understand that you can’t win the general election by leaving half of the democrat party behind. Remember that this was an incredibly close primary. A lot of people voted for Clinton. Slightly more wanted Obama. That means it’d be a good time to work towards reapproachment, not fuel animosity.
Again- this argument is predicated on you wanting to win the whitehouse. If your goal is different then the argument may not apply.
Solis Doyle is from Chicago and has known David Axelrod for two decades, not to mention her brother is an Alderman there. As far as the claim she was responsible for Clinton’s loss of the nomination, I doubt it. Hubris, and an over-arching delusion of the nomination belonging to The Sun Queen, brought defeat to her bid. Maybe Solis-Doyle was part of that, who knows, and who cares.
And I’ve been ignoring the Hilbot crowd (as they are dwindling in number) for a couple of weeks now, which has done wonders in reducing the anger level. BTD was an arrogant ass before the primary and is still one, although now occupying the rolls of the mostly irrelevant.
I. Take Offense
Susie Umbrage McGrudgement Barbie Clothes was ENTITLED to have her friend elected, damnit. And now these interlopers are hiring the peons that were fired for incompetence!! How declasse! Arrivistes!
Dennis - SGMM
Because he feels that Solis-Doyle would be an asset?
Because some of Clinton’s loyal followers have created an impenetrable minefield of perceived insults?
You know what would be a real slap in the face? A slap in the face.
The dynasties are over.
Sure, but if everything you do, no matter what it is, is perceived as an insult, what is the point? Solis Doyle was in talks with the Obama campaign at least a month or so ago, and no one said squat.
Additionally, Clinton supporters need to get it through their head that THIS IS NOT ABOUT HILLARY ANYMORE. This is about electing Obama, and both Hillary and the Obama campaign think that Doyle is going to help Obama get elected. Should we pass her over because Clinton dead-enders are taking perceiving insults to an Olympian art-form?
Dennis - SGMM
Ahh, the Aztec god of jizzlicking trolls chimes in.
And let me go on record- anyone who chooses to not support Obama and support McCain because Solis Doyle was hired WAS NEVER going to vote for Obama and really should not be treated as a serious person.
What? How dare you imply that BTD is a Clinton supporter. He’s an Obama supporter – he’s said so himself many times, and quite believably!
John, your troll detector needs new batteries. That idiot called it the ‘democrat’ party…Therefore it goes in the ‘ignore’ pile.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
So how is hiring a former Clinton COS a slap in the face to HC as is being tossed around by CLinton supporters and insiders?
I really would like to know.
Ya know, PSD has been in politics a long time. She and Axlerod go way back. I’m sure she has useful skills, and isn’t being put in place with no oversight, like she was on the Sun Queen’s campaign.
The thing that really irks me is how quick Ban Them Democrat is to jump up and down, screaming “Idiot!” It’s just eerie how simple things are in his world. Somehow, the appointment of PSD to a position within Camp Obama is about Hillary? Huh? I’m more confused now than when they insisted that “periodically” was a slap at her gender.
I’m at the point of filing him in with my ex-s in my head, in the drawer labeled “People in a different reality – contents under pressure”.
I’m gonna get on my motorcycle, and think about other things. >.
John – Don’t forget that a lot of these Clinton dead-enders are really just plain old racists.
Dennis - SGMM
I don’t want a pickle
Just want to ride on my motorsickle
And I don’t want a tickle
‘Cause I’d rather ride on my motorsickle
And I don’t want to die
Just want to ride on my motorcy…cle…
Why, was HRC going to pay her to stay? I don’t know about you, but the day work stops paying me is the day I start looking for another job. Are these Clinton supporters saying that Solis should find another line of work, or that Obama should not hire staff until he picks a running mate?
Regardless, “People” is to Baby Suri as John Cole is to Hillary Clinton.
And George W Bush thought Harriet Miers was qualified for SCOTUS.
The Clinton people deserve a big FU.
This quote reminds me of Bush answering questions which he can’t. Just accuse the commenter of not being serious or “slandering America”. Obama also hired a former Kerry manager, so was this a slap in the face to Kerry or does this mean Kerry will be the next VP? It might just mean that Obama is creating a staff of bright, able people.
Koz, your mental gymnastics are quite impressive. What other tricks can you do? Juggle, Lipsync, or maybe lick your own balls?
To those who haven’t heard, that other “half” of the Democratic Party are pretty much behind Obama now.
They were never hiding out in their basements waiting for Central Command to allow them to vote for the actual Democratic candidate.
This nonsense about “half” the party not behind Obama (or “18 MILLION DOLLARS I MEAN VOTERS”) should have evaporated with the first few polls coming out after Obama captured the nomination.
Dennis - SGMM
She obviously sinned against the Light. Having been banished by Clinton she must remain banished.
Om another note; if the easily-insulted Clinton supporters would publish a list of those things that they consider a slap in the face things would smooth right out. I’m sure that, in .pdf form, it wouldn’t be larger than eight or nine megabits.
Hell they fired her. Why any of them can now claim its some kind of slight for her to work for the now ex-competition is unreal.
If you are an Obama supporter, your continued breathing is a never ending slap in Hillary’s face. Starting your car is a slap in Hillary’s face. When you go to the bathroom, you are slapping Hillary in the face. Ok, that may be stretching it a bit but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that accusation next.
Give me a break. Please!
On another topic, I was right about my identification of Clinton supporter, Hillaryis44 member (“Spega”) and Count The Vote volunteer Paulie Abeles.
Sour Grapes for the whine makers.
It’ll be interesting to see how PSD fairs without Mark Penn overruling her at every turn. She might actually have incentive to do a good job this time.
I’m starting to feel about Clinton the way I feel about Jesus. She’s probably pretty all right on her own, but her supporters…some of them need some quality time on the junk kicking machine.
Yes, but the half of the electorate that voted for Clinton aren’t the same as the people who will be offended if Obam a appoints a staffer they don’t like or fails to pick her as VP or picks a woman other than her as VP. I’m one of those people who voted for Clinton, and if I knew my vote would be used to bludgeon the Democratic nominee for every perceived sleight, I would not have voted the way I did.
This is just a plot to make “I’ll never vote for a nigger!” look like a principled and rational position; seriously, compared to this, outright racism almost seems reasonable.
Dennis - SGMM
That’s a slap in the face if I ever saw one.
*Note: henceforth, all slaps in the face will be numbered for easier and quicker outrage. Rick Taylor’s comment has been assigned the number 1087. The approved reaction to similar comments is, “Damn you, that’s a 1087!”
Sorry, but Bill Clinton still holds that prize with the whole Monica thing. The only point of debate is who got fucked harder — Hil, Al, or the American People.
Okay the one update with her quotes is surreal because it makes it clear that her supporters stopped listening to her. Jeeebus, when did clinton become unimportant to clintonistas? Wait….Never mind. Obviously it was the moment she graciously decided it was more important to help the dems win the white house than keep limping to the bitter end.
Jan. 20, 2009, WASHINGTON, D.C. (AP)– In what was widely perceived as a slap in the face to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama was sworn in as president on the steps of the Capitol this morning. Clinton supporters were reportedly livid that Obama chose to take the oath of office in front of a building in which Senator Clinton still works.
Shortly after the Capitol ceremony, in a further slight, President Obama, his wife and his daughters took up residence in the White House–a building once occupied by the Clinton family.
Fox News contributor Lanny Davis noted, “Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton to death. Preston Brooks took a cane to Charles Sumner on the floor of the Senate and nearly killed him. Josef Stalin had Leon Trotsky tracked down and hacked to death with an ice axe. All those episodes in history pale in comparison to the epic rebuke Barack Obama delivered to Hillary and Bill Clinton by assuming office today. He has fucked them every way he knows how.”
Also today, Obama gave a speech that outlined his ideas for how the country should be governed for the next four years.
The simplest answer is usually correct. They hired her because there are not a lot of people who understand politics and have the same number of connections as she does. Those that do are already working for Obama, and I am guessing they need a lot more then they already have.
Fair enough. However is it really unreasonable to see the hiring of a woman who broke with the Clinton Campaign in a pretty nasty way (as in hard feelings on both sides apparently) as an insult?
…for you. It is not automatically about electing Obama for them. Whether it will become about electing him depends at least a little bit on some gracious reapproachment from the victors.
null pointer exception
Did anyone catch Granholm taking off her shoe? What was that about?
Dennis - SGMM
Gore is on MSNBC endorsing Obama. Sure wish the Al Gore on that podium today had run in 2000.
Al Gore is on fire. “If you’d like the T on your BLT, you know that elections matter. If you bought tainted pet food imported from China, you know that elections matter. After 7 years, your dog and cat know that elections matter.”
Also fair. My counter argument is that a lot of genuine concerns get routinely ignored as “petty grievances and playing the victim.”
And it would probably do good things for Mr. Cole’s blood pressure, too.
Seriously. I was an Edwards supporter who will vote for Obama in November. But it’s not unreasonable for people who remember John Cole as a Republican to wonder if his current reactions to Hillary supporters can be totally unbiased. Perhaps the “I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss the Clinton Campaign” posts have become, well, redundant?
She didn’t break with them- they FIRED her.
A month ago, when Solis Doyle was in talks with the Obama campaign, it was perceived at a move towards unity, and Doyle said the following:
I don’t remember a freak-out from the Clinton dead-enders back then, but that may have been because they are so fucking stupid they actually though the supers and the RBC were going to “come to their senses” and give the nomination to Hillary. Now, all of a sudden, though, it is an outrage. And it is no mystery why it is an outrage now- because everything that does not involve her highness being the nominee is an outrage.
The Other Steve
I was just watching CNN, and Jeffrey Toobin said a funny. Toobin was the “reporter” between Roland Martin and some GOP woman I forget her name. The GOP lady was saying something like “This doesn’t matter, it’s unimportant, it won’t make a different… yada yada”
To wich Jeffrey Toobin cut in with something like “You’re probably right, another rally with 15,000 people showing up is clearly going to hurt Barack Obama.”
OMG! AL GORE JUST SLAPPED HILLARY IN THE FACE!1
He called Obama the next president of the United States and like, totally hurt her feelings on purpose!
It is kind of an odd hire. I’ve been wondering about the timing and the more I think about it, the more I think it was a savvy move by Obama. It will end the Clinton for VP obsession and give the really rabid remainders a reason to release all that pent up anger now instead of waiting until later. By August they’ll be in outrage burnout and now he’s under less pressure to name the VP and can take his time.
I’m surprised at the vitriol I’ve seen spewed at Solis Doyle in some of the comment sections by the Clintonistas though. I guess it’s not really about feminism and sister solidarity after all. I don’t know that much about her, but I always thought she was just scapegoated to protect Penn.
Based on the polling numbers since Clinton gave her unity speech, I’d put their numbers pretty low–safely ignoring low, just to be clear.
Just Some Fuckhead
Wow! Gore knocked my socks off. That Gore would have the nomination right now had he chosen to run. Gore thread please.
And motherfucker is one word, JC.
I get the same feeling. But then I’m biased because I really don’t have a high regard for Penn. But if she was scapegoated, it wouldn’t surprise me.
Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this, but I was surfing channels today, and they were showing blogs on News Hour and I saw the unmistakable Balloon Juice masthead.
Just Some Fuckhead
It’s entirely possible that HRC recommended her for the job because she felt bad about firing her. Apologies if anyone has suggested this already.
Seems like being fired is a type of “break.” Don’t you think?
I see you’ve taken that “reapproachment” thing to heart. Simple true/false question- it helps Obama get votes by calling half of the democratIC (for the people out there who genuinely think it matters) party “fucking stupid”?
Now, if it is “all about getting Obama elected now” and your behavior is not helping to get him elected, why do you persist?
Toobin’s been on fire lately. Hope he keeps it up.
The Other Steve
you know what else is a slap in the face!? Claiming a child might want a father. Or so says Ann Althouse.
Obama just can’t help slapping women in the face, apparently.
Oh, teh irony, it hurts! The most devoted Hillary votaries claimed that Obama supporters were a like a cult, and yet the Hillary people view the Sun Queen through the prism of a cult of personality. The don’t care about political realities, but only about whether something that the Obama camp either pleases or displeases Her Highness, the Pretender to the Democratic Party nomination.
Also, despite all the hand wringing over sexism coming from some Hillary supporters, I don’t think that any male candidate has ever built up a loyal base founded on personal as opposed to political loyalties. And where some of these Hillary votaries also belong to organizations committed to seeing more women elected to public office, they have degenerated into a group singly devoted to making certain that Senator Clinton remain a strong political figure. On the Rachel Maddow Show today, I heard some commentators and callers debate whether Hillary would be best as VP, Secretary of State or Supreme Court justice, with no thought at all given to what might be best for Obama or the country. I was waiting for a caller to suggest that Hillary was so fabulous that she could hold all three positions simultaneously.
Worse, some of the keepers of the Hillary enemies list are significant figures in the Democratic Party or are big campaign donors, so their continued ire is a wild card. You see this Shadow opposition stuff in Britain and other countries with parliamentary systems, but this insistence among some Hillary supporters that they must still be particularly wooed, appeased and catered to, is something new and unhealthy in American politics.
But its NOT half of the democratic party that’s acting this way. Its just the dead-enders. Most reasonable and/or sane people can recognize childish behavior in other people whether they voted for the same people or not. I have friends that are Hillary supporters and they do not think this is a slap in the face and they think its stupid that anyone would think that way.
So really, I think you’re over-estimating numbers a bit. Not everyone who voted for Hillary is a dead-ender.
Dennis - SGMM
The substitution of the words “Democrat party” for the words “Democratic party” is another of the myriad means that the Republicans developed to throw shit at us. It’s one of their hallmarks. So, yes, it matters – to Democrats.
And it’s “rapprochement.”
Don’t vote for me in November.
First, it is not half the party. At most, it is 10-20% of Hillary voters. Second, I will stop calling them stupid if they stop giving me reasons.
Or it’s exactly what has happened in every primary that’s been even remotely contested since the dawn of this country. but other than that, yeah, totally unprecedented.
I won’t speak for Cole, but I assure you Anne I’ve never been a republican and was a Clinton supporter before she went after Obama like HE was a republican. She crossed many lines that normally don’t get crossed in an intra-party campaign.
I think Toobin’s been CNN’s best pundit in this election, hand’s down. I loved the line about “deranged narcissism”, which he had to revisit the next day due its harshness, and David Gergen’s distancing himself from Toobin’s tone while seconding his substance (though he didn’t retract it).
You know, its too bad that Hillary supporters are really getting a bad rap from dead-enders that won’t be happy no matter what someone does. I have to remember that these people who act like three year olds aren’t representative of all of her supporters.
Like mentioned on Carpetbagger, they’re likely a vocal minority.
Dennis - SGMM
True that but, Lord of Comforts, are they ever vocal. I’m thinking that it’s only a matter of time before the hardest of the hard core turn against Clinton herself for “giving in”.
The Balloon Juice “Who will vet the vetters” post was on the PBS News Hour.
You know, it’s interesting that Hillary’s loss is more contentious to some than the 2000 election.
Woodrow "asim" Jarvis Hill
In related news, Obama has delivered the most intense criticism of McCain’s dead-end Iraq “strategy” I’ve heard yet. Both he and Gore are on fire tonight, and it’s wonderful to watch. And for those reading the quotes, they are nothign compare to how both men are delivering this — with power, and precision, and a sense of moral outrage that’s moving this crowd.
Hell, even Obama’s praise of Clinton is a stem-winder of epic proportions, tonight.
Can’t wait to not hear how the punditry’ll muck up this speech.
The Other Steve
Bah, the problem isn’t just dead enders, it’s also the McCain trolls.
Bob In Pacifica
Just a reminder, Susie Tompkins Buell made a bundle from her clothing company Esprit, which screwed over poor women in Esprit sweatshops. From Wiki:
I wonder what Buell said to the Chinese workers when her contractor doctored the payrolls.
I just watched Al Gore and Barack Obama stand, arm in arm, and wave to a stadium full of ecstatically cheering people. God Damn that felt good.
It was, more or less, my deliriously hopeful dream from, oh, three years ago (Gore/Obama ’08! The GO Team! People thought I was crazy). Except B.O. is now top dog (and Al appears to be in fighting trim nowadays . . . he’s lookin’ good!).
Now, I know (presume?) that Gore won’t be chosen for/wouldn’t accept the V.P. nod. But, c’mon. Those two guys look pretty good together.
[Is there slash fanfic for political figures out there? Have I discovered a new, kind of unsettling niche?]
Clearly anyone who ever worked for the Clintons should join a convent, monastery or find some other way to discreetly retire from active life. Anything else is a huge insult to the Clintons.
Bob In Pacifica
Oftentimes I comments and I’m not sure if they are snark or not. The survey today gives Obama an 11-point lead. He leads McCain among white women by twice the amount that Kerry led Bush.
So is half the Democratic Party going to stay home because Obama hired someone from the now-defunct Clinton campaign that people in the Clinton campaign no longer like? No.
But maybe the comment is snark.
Since hill and bill have an insatiable obsession to play the victim, can’t all of us do our best to accomodate these two snots. How about some suggestions. Can we email these assholes, and ask to exit stage right, and take all of their trash (mcauliffe, carville, davis, wolfson,etc.) with them.
Au contraire. There has never been a prior Democratic Party or GOP contest where a candidate’s supporters pulled something similar to the nonsense proffered by some of the Hillary votaries who say that it will be “a slap in the face” if Obama selects a woman other than Hillary to be his VP choice.
The 1952 GOP primary was particularly contentious. Senator Robert Taft, son of a president, was viewed by many as the front runner and presumptive nominee. Until Eisenhower came along. There was a bitter fight at the convention over delegates, and acrimonious speeches by Taft supporters.
But everyone fell into line when Ike became the nominee. Everyone. Including Taft. As Wikipedia notes (Robert Taft):
Yes, it exists. I will say no more because RPS squicks me, especially the Bush/Cheney stuff. Just the idea of it… :(
Aaaagh! My brains!
I loved that line too.
Now if only McCain would pick Romney for VP, we’d have the dog-people demographic locked up.
It’s getting so that everything from the moon cycles to the tides piss off Hillary-ites. It would be nice to have single day go by without some sort of passive-aggressive loser drama being foisted on us.
It seems that Obama is eternally saddled with 2 choices facing him in all his decisions. 1) Piss of some overwrought pro-Hillary drama queen 2) Piss of everyone else.
I really think that’s because there’s a lot fewer “Hillary-ites”, as opposed to Hillary supporters. After all, the Hillary-ites won’t even listen to the person they profess to support. Altering the tides won’t help them.
SLAP. IN. THE. FACE.
Someone wrote a great snark diary at Kos that lampoons Agent Flowbee. While the diary is a great laugh, what is funnier is the people in the diary that took it seriously!
Remember that George HW Bush called Reagan’s economic plan “voodoo economics”, which of course it was. After Ronnie got the nomination and made Bush his VP, the economics got Christian real fast.
The reference to cycles is an obvious reference to menstruation. Sexist.
Here’s the real slap in the face (from the AP report):
If the situation were reversed and Clinton were the nominee, could you imagine her chastising her supporters for booing Obama?
The strident Hillary supporters are simply determined to be offended by Obama.
McCain is hanging around with guys that like to joke around about rape but it is Obama is the true hater of women.
Here’s an idea, why don’t we treat politics like an intellectually stunted high school clique? Truly, truly pathetic to advise the silent treatment for those with whom you disagree. Or do you think they have the cooties?
This is very confusing to me, I heard no end of comments about how incompetent the Clinton campaign was, especially early, and did not plan for Obama’s early success and trouble on Super Tuesday. My understanding was that Susie Tompkins Buell was, at the very least, the fall guy for that failed strategy. That makes her a strange hire for Obama.
I know of one group that put more emphasis on promoting cronies and tweaking opponents than running the country effectively, and John Cole was an eager participant until Iraq tweaked him and made him an opponent.
By any rational count, Obama won the Democratic nomination. Any rational supporter would also know he won it by less than 1 percentage point, by any rational count. If you cannot discuss the Clintons and their supporters rationally, without directly insulting them, please try to talk about something else.
Because you are not helping. At all. (Well, at least not helping the Democrats.)
Susie Tompkins Buell, who was behind that disastrous dud of a rally for the MI/FL meeting in DC, is super icky. Politicians are play things to her:
You’ll also see from the article that quote is from that she’s a little peeved that Obama, who she raised funds for, took out her BFF Hillary.
No one is talking about Hillary’s supporters in general. I think a lot of them are sane and rational, I just don’t agree with them about which candidate is best. The problem isn’t Hillary’s supporters, its the dead-enders that say stupid things and act offended no matter what. There is no talking to such people. Its the “vocal minority” that some here, including me, take issue with.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Because ‘Seatwarmer for the Chief of Staff of the VP To Be Named Later’ is such a vital position.
That’s just silly.
They have Clintonorrhea.
Color me confused. Patti Solis Doyle was Hillary’s campaign manager, until she got fired and replaced by Maggie Williams, correct? And while PSD was managing the campaign, wasn’t there a lot of chaos, confusion and warfare within the campaign? Wasn’t it while PSD was managing the campaign that Hillary lost the caucus states? Wasn’t it sort of a general concensus that PSD was in over her head, that she wasn’t qualified for the job she was hired for and only got the job because of her friendship and loyalty to Hillary? Wasn’t it after PSD was fired and replaced by Maggie Williams that Hillary’s campaign somewhat got its act together and she won so many of the remaining primaries?
If the above are correct, why in the world would the Obama campaign hire her? Her connections to Chicago would only matter if this was a local election, rather than a national election, it seems to me. And why would the campaign be hiring a chief of staff for someone not yet picked? It would seem to me that whoever the ultimate running mate is, he or she would want to hire their own chief of staff, not have someone handed to them with what was recently perceived to be a less than stellar track record.
To me, it just doen’t make much sense and I cannot seem to fathom the motivations behind the hire.
That is great advice. Please pass it on to the people who claim everything that Obama does is a slap in the face.
That is what the folks in the Clinton campaign claim, but with all the infighting it is hard to tell what actually happened. A fractious organization can make anyone look bad.
Regardless, PSD was not hired to run the campaign, as far as I can tell. She will be just a cog in the machine, and apparently, the Obama campaign feels comfortable with her. Considering they have run a pretty solid campaign so far, I think it would be silly to second guess them on this hire.
Obama is the nominee of the Democratic Party.
By any rational count, there should not be any more Hillary supporters.
In terms of Patti Solis Doyle, my sense is that her management of the Clinton campaign was a classic Peter Principle issue – the accounts I’ve read suggest she was not very good at it, but that doesn’t mean that she’s not good at anything related to political campaign work. She rose to her level of incompetence. That doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be useful in the role of, essentially, liaison between the campaign and the VP nominee. That’s a much lower level position, and one with much more limited responsibilities and greater oversight. Just because she was ineffectual in dealing with the massive ego conflicts that apparently plagued the Clinton campaign doesn’t mean she’d be incompetent at a much more limited job.
In terms of slaps in the face and the wooing of Clinton voters, I think Tlaloc’s “Democrat Party” says most of what needs to be said. But, to get more substantive, I’ll just say that the idea that Clinton supporters need to be “wooed” is rather odd to me.
Obviously, the candidate needs to get former Clinton supporters on board. The vast majority probably got on board as soon as Clinton endorsed Obama (or within a couple of days.) The rest will presumably come on board as Obama woos them in the way that he is wooing everybody – by talking about his policies and showing why they are much better than McCain’s. I don’t see why Obama needs to do more than that, or even what exactly it is that he’s supposed to do. Make her his running mate? That’s pretty absurd.
The basic fact is that Obama and Clinton have very similar policy positions, and there’s absolutely no substantive reason that anybody who preferred Clinton to McCain on the issues should vote for McCain over Obama. As such, all these obscure demands for “wooing” and so forth are merely personal pique, and, so far as I can tell, cannot possibly be satisfied. I imagine that even if Obama picks Clinton as his running mate, he’ll be spitting in her eye by having the audacity to imagine that she might be willing to except such a lowly job, or something. A slap in the face, that’s what that would be. The whole thing is absurd. There’s nothing that will satisfy these people. Maybe they’ll come around with time, and maybe not. But whether he hires Patti Solis Doyle or not is not going to be the make or break factor for just about anyone.
Further point – on the basic factual question, the fact that Solis Doyle was named to this particular position certainly does suggest that the Obama campaign is not considering Clinton very seriously. But hasn’t that been every reasonable person’s assumption all along? It’s been clear for ages now that Obama is not at all enthused about the possibility of Clinton being his running mate. Running up Solis as CoS to the VP nominee is a good early sign that he’s not going to pick Clinton. I don’t see why that’s a slap in the face. It’s a way of letting this necessary thing out slowly, so that hopefully by the time he actually makes a pick, nobody is really expecting Clinton to be in the running.
Chief of staff and campaign manager are overlapping but not identical skill sets. Maybe this is just a reverse of the usual Peter Principle at work, in which case moving her into a chief of VP’s staff position may work out just fine.
It may work, it may not – time will tell.
If it works well then with hindsight we can look back and say that Obama and his team had a real genius for finding the right job for the person, which is a good thing when you have talented people who are good at some things but not others and you want to get as much out of what they have to offer as you can. Seems like the sort of thing a community organizer would be good at, so I’m guardedly optimistic about this one.
I see it as an FU to Darth Vader as much as anyone in the Clinton camp. This may be a signal that the days of the Dick Cheney Imperial Vice-Presidency are over. Obama is signalling that there is not going to be any possibility of a divided chain of command in his administration, and is a very unflattering comment on how that worked out recently.
Wouldn’t bringing in PSD at this time allow her to get up to speed with the campaign, in terms of learning who everybody is, how things are done, so that she can better manage the campaign trail for whoever’s picked? I mean, I assume the veep nominee could switch her out later for one of his/her own, but having someone in place, ready to go in terms of coordinating things and arranging the calendar and whatnot would allow whoever to get up and running a bit faster than if they’re bringing in somebody totally new.
Agent Flowbee directs his super duper CIA spying powers to the issue, and comes up with the only reasonable answer !
Dennis - SGMM
Bwahahahahaha! The struggle for relevance continues at NQ.
Patti has known Hillary for what… 15 years? Known Axelrod for her for years and years. She was a scapgoat when things went wrong. Hillary supporters think that she should be POTUS, but are unable to get over petty arguments and bickering? How can she even be in a position of power if she’s going to keep A LIST of people who have wronged her. Here’s a wild and crazy idea, how bout Hillary and her supporters make nice with Ms. Doyle? If she can’t talk it out with her, talking it out with world leaders isn’t going to happen.
Ann, in fairness to Hillary, I haven’t seen anywhere that she herself has a problem with Doyle working for Obama. It’s only her half-mad supporters who are flinging the poo.
….the struggle for sanity having been given up long ago.
I gotta say, NoQ provides endless hours of hilarity these days. It’s like watching a Lionel train wreck over and over.
If you’re going to try to be clever please be aware that a bit isn’t a byte and the PDF size you specified wouldn’t be very large at all. Series of tubes indeed.
This is news? Craig Livingstone, anyone?
Why do I get the feeling we’re going to hear the same “You’d better be nice to us while we nip at your ankles!” bs from the fRighties in November?
If not sooner. After a debate or two McCain will be trailing Obama, gonorrhea and hot tar enemas in the polls.
At any rate, dickheads who continue to be dickheads AND demand to be appeased will have to settle for a kick in the junk. Or a slap in the face.
One thing we do know is she was not responsible for strategy, so HRC getting herself into a bind by the time Super Tuesdays results were in had exactly zero to do with PSD. It seems to me that at worst PSDs inability to spend the campaign funds in a responsible manner meant that when they got themselves in trouble and needed a second act pronto coming out of Super Tuesday the money was no longer there to do it. To put it another way to blame PSD for the SS Hillary going down is like blaming the guy who prepped the lifeboats on the Titantic for the number of people who did. Sure, it contributed, but if the builder and crew were doing there jobs in the first place it never would have been and issue. In any event it all has exactly zero to do with whether she could be an effective chief of staff.
There comes a point when folks are acting irrationally, when the proper response is to mock/ignore them. Quite frankly, if you act like whining, petulant high-schoolers, you will get treated as such.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. What exactly does Obama have to do to get democratic Hillary voters to vote for him? Are you suggesting they will vote for John McCain, who as Senator has one of the WORST voting records on womens issues over someone who has one of the best (Obama)? It doesn’t make sense…
Hey now, I’m a Chris Dodd supporter, and I DEMAND to be wooed! Why does Obama continue to slap Chris Dodd in the face by, erm, not mentioning Dodd in his speeches? Why has Obama not already announced Chris Dodd as his VP running mate? It’s the least he can do if he ever wants to win the Chris Dodd supporters and have any chance at the Presidency come November. In fact, if Chris Dodd is not named VP, Secretary of State, AND Head Janitor of the White House, I will definitely NOT vote for the Democrat party this Fall.
Yeah, but did he slap her with his ring hand?
“I’m Rick Taylor, bitch!”
I’m going to give a shout-out to my sister in law, and by extension a lot of other folks too. They don’t make the news or the blogs because they’re doing what they are expected to do, and should do.
She was a Hillary supporter, and last week slapped that Obumper sticker on the mama van and got on with her damn life.
Dunno if you got this but at least the language is appropriate.
from the top down, hillary’s campaign was run like crap. that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who worked in the campaign is a failure. shit, any competent person in that position would likely have spent half their time pulling their hair out from being surrounded by complete incompetence.
When you go to the bathroom, you are slapping Hillary in the face.
Sweet baby Jesus, that is one cockslapping image I did NOT need this morning.
The Hillaryheads at Talk Left had a little chat about this. There was a bit of anguishing over McCain attending a fundraiser held by a guy who made rape jokes, McCains joke about Chelsea Clinton being ugly and McCain laughing when someone called Hillary a bitch.
In the end they seem to have decided that these jokes at least show that, unlike a lot of old guys, McCain has a sense of humour and Democratic Party is led by sexist pigs so they can still vote for McCain.
Here’s the link. As a bonus “p lukasiak” shows up to add some wise words to the discussion.
Oops. Messed up the link to Talk Left. I’ll try again
I just have to quote lukasiks logic (because we ran him off the boards a while ago and he can’t be bothered to post where people call him on his BS):
Translation: I will vote for the party of intrenched mysoginy because I felt my party was too mysoginst this election. How can you not mock this type of reasoning?
er… entrenched. I spel gud.
Desert Hussein Rat
Actually, Patti is one of the few people who seemed like she had a clue what was going on over there, in my opinion. Too bad she was utterly ignored by Hillary in favor of ignorant assclowns like Mark Penn.
I had no love for Hillary’s candidacy, simply because if she ran the country like she ran her campaign, she’d basically be Bush-lite, without the malevolence.
In any case, Susie Tompkins Bell is going to endure a lot of metaphorical “slaps in the face” then. Patti Solis-Doyle will hardly be the only former member of Hillary’s campaign team to switch to Team Obama.
Just as long as none of them are Wolfson, Lanny Davis, Harold Ickes, or Allah forbid, Mark Penn, I’ll be happy.
Personally, I think if those who defended Hillary’s tactics are calling PSD a detriment to the campaign, I find that to be a compliment. ;)
My favorite comment from that TalkLeft thread:
You know, I hope women like this enjoy the coathanger abortions they and their daughters will be needing, all thanks to that McCain lever they pulled
(inb4 penis). After all, the Republicans are consistent in wanting that to happen.
mere mortal says: “Any rational supporter would also know [Obama] won it by less than 1 percentage point, by any rational count.”
The candidates were directly competing for pledged delegates, yes?
According to DemConWatch: Obama finished with 1765.5 to Hillary’s 1639.5 – or 51.8% to 48.1%.
A 3.7% margin is nothing dramatic. But still several times larger than “less than 1 percentage point”.
There is of course no such thing as a “popular vote”. And if you include the superdelegates, the margin swings dramatically in Obama’s favor.
One of the reasons that I came around to Obama was when I learned that his motto for his campaign staff was “no drama”
I really didn’t even have a problem with HRC but was turned off by all the drama queens on her staff (sexism!) too busy preening for DC reporters and making things all about them and pointing fingers at everyone else. Too bad they couldn’t be bothered to actually plan the campaign, and do some actual work for a change.
Here is part of a comment Lukasiak left at Celeste Fremon’s blog
He really has no business talking about misogyny.
Oh, but that won’t work over at TL. Either they “will NOT succumb to blackmail,” or they “are too old to have to worry about it, if younger women are stupid enough to vote for Obama then maybe they deserve to have their rights taken away.”