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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Question About The Flood

Question About The Flood

by John Cole|  June 19, 20082:42 pm| 49 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Obviously all the flooded farmland is for the most part a loss this year, but will it have a long-term impact? Will the topsoil be carried away in the flood waters, thus leaving the land less productive, or is it a net gain because new “stuff” will be deposited? Or is it such a short-term thing the impact will be negligible?

Just curious.

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49Comments

  1. 1.

    4tehlulz

    June 19, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    These are all issues we must now consider. Like New Orleans, I think we need to discuss whether to rebuild Iowa. After all, didn’t it just get flooded in 1993?

  2. 2.

    Incertus

    June 19, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I don’t know the area, so I don’t know what the possibilities are, but in the Katrina flooding, one of the big issues was that refineries and the like were flooded, and all that nasty shit floated right out of the buildings and into the surrounding area. That’s some toxic shit. If there’s an Iowa equivalent, I’d worry.

  3. 3.

    Tom

    June 19, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    The ’93 flood wasn’t this bad. I don’t know the long term situation with the soil or the crops.

    I do know a lot of people have lost everything. Has there been any federal action on this? I heard that Bush was going there today?

  4. 4.

    Tom

    June 19, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    I’ve heard the water is pretty bad. Know some people in Iowa and the stench is the first thing they mention.

  5. 5.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 19, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Total win, John. The era of cheap food is over. Americans are going to be forced to change the way they consume food. Shoulda done something about ag policy ten years ago when it woulda made a difference.

  6. 6.

    dmbeaster

    June 19, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    NY Times

    Federal officials say heavy rains and floods this month have washed away at least 80 million tons of Iowa’s rich topsoil in what is probably the worst case of water erosion in the state’s history.

    A report released Thursday by the Soil and Conservation Service indicated that this month’s rains had eroded four million acres of Iowa farmland. Conservation officials said it would take centuries to restore the topsoil dislodged by the spring downpours in some areas.

  7. 7.

    crack

    June 19, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    The Iowa equivalent of a refinery flood is a hog confinement lot pig shit lagoon flood. I shudder at the thought.

  8. 8.

    Stevenovitch

    June 19, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

  9. 9.

    Danton

    June 19, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I lived in Columbia, Missouri near the Missouri River during the ’93 flood. Hard to imagine this year’s flooding is as bad as it was then, but I’m not on the ground there anymore. The effect on the crops was one thing (yes, the ’93 flooding hurt farmers), but the effect on the soil probably depends on all kinds of variables (some farmland was covered in sand in ’83; some was enriched with soil).

  10. 10.

    FLILF_Hunter

    June 19, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    They were talking about this on Weather Channel today. One of the big issues is going to be all the fertilizer and pesticide that gets flushed down river and ultimately into the Gulf. The fertilizer sucks the O2 out of the water and creates dead zones.

    Nice.

  11. 11.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 19, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

    Apparently He was pretty miffed Iowans gave Obama the caucus win. Seems Jesus is a big fan of health care mandates.

  12. 12.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 19, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    One of the big issues is going to be all the fertilizer and pesticide that gets flushed down river and ultimately into the Gulf. The fertilizer sucks the O2 out of the water and creates dead zones.

    Look on the bright side; if the Gulf turns into a lifeless basin of toxic sludge then there won’t be any reason not to drill there!
    /Bush Administration

  13. 13.

    Cris

    June 19, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Stevenovitch Says:
    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

    Chaucer. Rabelais. Balzac!

  14. 14.

    Seth

    June 19, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    In a “natural” state, spring floods are actually essential to maintaining the quality of the topsoil -they deposit silt that contains essential nutrients. Without a levy system, the floods would generally not have a lot of energy and would tend to deposit more sediment (from upstream erosion) than they remove. But the levies constrain the river system so that, where they fail, you get much higher current velocities than would normally be the case, and consequently in many places you remove more sediment than you deposit. That sediment would normally then be transported downstream and deposited on the Mississippi delta, but because of the levies on the delta the current velocity is now so high that most of the sediment instead gets shot out onto the continental shelf. This is one of the reasons (not the only one) that New Orleans is slowly sinking. Levies are obviously essential to maintaining human habitation in these areas, but they tend to screw up river systems in ways that make floods rarer but bigger and more damaging when they occur.

  15. 15.

    KRK

    June 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    The Iowa equivalent of a refinery flood is a hog confinement lot pig shit lagoon flood. I shudder at the thought.

    This is true when it comes to water quality and riparian/fisheries impacts, but the animal waste isn’t going to do any harm to the farmland itself once the water recedes. Can’t say the same for spilled oil, fuel, and industrial wastes that might be sloshing around.

  16. 16.

    tess

    June 19, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    The top soil goes pretty deep in Iowa, but I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of erosion.

    The water is very smelly. I’m sure the clean up is going to be major.

  17. 17.

    KRK

    June 19, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Cris Says:

    Stevenovitch Says:
    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

    Chaucer. Rabelais. Balzac!

    Old Harold Hill tried to warn them about that pool hall, but they just wouldn’t listen.

  18. 18.

    mark

    June 19, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Chaucer. Rabelais. Balzac!

    LOL, we just saw my son’s classmate in a production of Music Man.

  19. 19.

    Davebo

    June 19, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    If only we had a country that was both a close ally and had over 600 years of experience in preventing farmland from flooding.

    Call the Dutch!

  20. 20.

    big cloud

    June 19, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    In the old days before levies, the annual spring flood would overflow the banks and deposit rich silt on the surrounding bottom lands, thereby enriching the fertility of the land. This is the story of the Nile Valley, until Aswan Dam was built upstream. (Now they have to rely on chemical fertilizer.) For the most part our civilization ignored natural systems in the rush to subdue and control nature. Now we rely on artificial structures like levies. In the long run, who or what do you believe will ultimately win the battle?

  21. 21.

    ThymeZone

    June 19, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    A farmer in Illinois was quoted yesterday as saying “it takes years to restore the land to where it can be farmed again” after a flood.

    What the technical reason is for that, I don’t know.

    I would like to know what percentage of corn and bean farmland is actually being affected, though. I can’t believe that it is a signficant slice. I drove through 3 days of corn back there a few years ago, and only a tiny sliver of it lives alongside the big rivers.

  22. 22.

    Butch

    June 19, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Any idea why it’s taking Dubya 2 weeks to get around to visitng the flooded heartland? Too busy having tea with the queen?

  23. 23.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 19, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    I would like to know what percentage of corn and bean farmland is actually being affected.

    So far, 18%.

  24. 24.

    Cris

    June 19, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    but the animal waste isn’t going to do any harm to the farmland itself once the water recedes.

    Perhaps not to the soil, but the groundwater is a different story. Intensive pig farms spend a lot of energy sequestering their waste, for good reason. Their lagoons are usually lined to prevent their contents from escaping into the wider environment.

    If the flooding has caused the lagoons to overflow, it’s definitely a problem. Having a lot of pig poop running overland into lakes, streams, and rivers is bound to have enormous impact on aquatic life and potentially contaminate drinking water.

  25. 25.

    Cris

    June 19, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    doh. you already said that in the part of your post i didn’t quote. :(

  26. 26.

    dbrown

    June 19, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Modern corperate farming – gota-luv it; the american way stinks in more ways than smell.

  27. 27.

    phobos

    June 19, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Chaucer. Rabelais. Balzac!

    In keeping with Internet Traditions: Shorter Rabelais on YouTube.

  28. 28.

    RSA

    June 19, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Question About The Flood

    I was afraid from the headline that this would be an evolution/creation debate; thank God it only includes just a bit of Jesus snark.

  29. 29.

    kilo

    June 19, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    but the animal waste isn’t going to do any harm to the farmland itself once the water recedes.

    Perhaps not to the soil, but the groundwater is a different story. Intensive pig farms spend a lot of energy sequestering their waste, for good reason. Their lagoons are usually lined to prevent their contents from escaping into the wider environment.
    If the flooding has caused the lagoons to overflow, it’s definitely a problem. Having a lot of pig poop running overland into lakes, streams, and rivers is bound to have enormous impact on aquatic life and potentially contaminate drinking water.

    Disclaimer: I’m not a hydrologist, nor a hydrogeologist, but I work with a bunch of ’em.

    As I understand it, this isn’t that big a deal for anything but the shallowest of aquifers – firstly because the floodwaters will dilute the manure down quite significantly, and secondly because the pig shit will be naturally degraded before it can seep all the way through the ground cover and into the groundwater.

    Hydrocarbons & industrial chemicals are a much bigger deal simply because they degrade much more slowly in the environment, if at all.

    Just remember, kids: dilution is the solution to pollution!

  30. 30.

    Calouste

    June 19, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    I’d say it washes away more topsoil than it deposits. The main reason is that rivers are more streamlined these days and the water will drain away faster (helped by human intervention as well, residential areas will be pumped dry for example), leaving less time for settling than it did in the days before levees.

  31. 31.

    4tehlulz

    June 19, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

    God is angry that Iowa doesn’t allow gay marriage.

  32. 32.

    tess

    June 19, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Aside from the floods, farmers have been having a tough time in Iowa this spring. All the rain meant that farmers couldn’t seed their fields on time this spring.

    Others put in seed, and the rain washed it away, so they had to re-seed.

  33. 33.

    ThymeZone

    June 19, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    So far, 18%.

    18% of what? Not the nation’s total corn and/or bean farmland.

    Even if you took the big rivers and all of their 100-year-floodplains, in all the states where corn is grown, I don’t see how you could get 18%.

  34. 34.

    Fern

    June 19, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    It will be interesting to see who wins out with respect to the crops that end up being harvested – Biofuels industry? Or food production?

  35. 35.

    AnneLaurie

    June 19, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Short-term sociological effect: How many little and not-so-little towns are going to disappear? I remember after the 1993 floods, there were a lot of people displaced because they’d been surviving on “legacy” farms, businesses & homesteads paid off by previous generations. With those “legacies” destroyed or not worth decontaminating, even if the survivors got some kind of insurance/FEMA check, they could no longer afford to stay where their roots had been. And Iowa ain’t Wyoming — what kind of knock-on effect does it have on food prices if a big chunk of corn & bean country goes fallow because people can’t afford to farm it?

  36. 36.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 19, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    As I understand it, this isn’t that big a deal for anything but the shallowest of aquifers – firstly because the floodwaters will dilute the manure down quite significantly, and secondly because the pig shit will be naturally degraded before it can seep all the way through the ground cover and into the groundwater.

    Is anyone here familiar enough with bacteriology to say whether or not e coli will be a problem for foods grown on land that received the dilute pigshit? I recall that there was a problem a few months ago with lettuce that carried e coli as a result of run off from a pig farm.

  37. 37.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 19, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    18% of what? Not the nation’s total corn and/or bean farmland.

    18% of Iowa’s farmland was flooded, IIRC.

  38. 38.

    Dreggas

    June 19, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Stevenovitch Says:

    Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?

    Funny you mention that. Was out at lunch with a few co-workers today and I said it was funny how the fundegelicals claimed things like Katrina were punishment from god since they had that gay pride thing going on, however notice the majority of the natural disasters the past 8 years have hit states that bush won. Why does God hate people who voted for bush?

  39. 39.

    Martin

    June 19, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    I’d say it washes away more topsoil than it deposits. The main reason is that rivers are more streamlined these days and the water will drain away faster (helped by human intervention as well, residential areas will be pumped dry for example), leaving less time for settling than it did in the days before levees.

    Right. Before levees, these places would flood with some frequency and the floods would be fairly gradual and mild by comparison. More land would get flooded, but to a lesser degree, and sediment could be deposited broadly.

    Now, the floods are concentrated and with more water moving more quickly, you get erosion instead of deposits. It’s fucking up the delta something awful, which is, of course, making the hurricanes down there worse.

    My mom flew over her area of Iowa in their plane (Des Moines north) and she couldn’t spot any corn on the ground at all. Lots of flooded fields. Talk is there won’t be any corn crop this year across much of Iowa. Might be time to get a bean crop in instead.

    Is anyone here familiar enough with bacteriology to say whether or not e coli will be a problem for foods grown on land that received the dilute pigshit? I recall that there was a problem a few months ago with lettuce that carried e coli as a result of run off from a pig farm.

    My understanding is that the food has to be growing when it comes in contact with the polluted water. Since nothing is growing there, it shouldn’t be a problem. That’ll be a different story farther south where they can plant crops sooner. Iowa was still getting snow mid April, so they’re all kinds of fucked up this year.

  40. 40.

    ThymeZone

    June 19, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Why does God hate people who voted for bush?

    God just called and left this voicemail message:

    “Because the fucker embarassed me. And I don’t like to be embarassed. Take my name in vain, fine, but don’t talk like you are all ‘God is my homey’ and then make me look like shit.”

  41. 41.

    A lurker

    June 19, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    “Anyword from the evangelicals on why Jesus hates the heartland?”

    Didn’t you get the memo from H44 and NQ? its because Iowa voted for Obama, that’s also the reason that Kennedy has a brain tumor and Russert is dead. I live in NC, I am expecting a Cat 5 hurricane to hit anyday now just to prove their theory.

  42. 42.

    rachel

    June 19, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Why does God hate people who voted for bush?

    ‘Spose Utah’d better look out.

  43. 43.

    Bill D.

    June 19, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Levies are taxes.

    Levees are berms for flood control.

    Please.

    Kudos to Martin for getting it right.

  44. 44.

    liberal

    June 20, 2008 at 3:46 am

    My old man, a professor (soon to be emeritus) at Iowa State, has a small (14 acre) field in a floodplain of a tributary of the Skunk River.

    It regularly floods (this time, too). But the topsoil is as deep as ever.

    So I think what most likely happens is that some soil is removed, but other soil is deposited, and it nets out as little change.

    What’s really bad for topsoil is plowing and disc-ing early, leaving the wind to blow the stuff away.

  45. 45.

    HeartlandLiberal

    June 20, 2008 at 6:01 am

    Actually, floods replenish the fertility of the soil in flood plains. The very existence of Egypt as a narrow strip of nation from its beginnings thousands of years ago was dependent on the annual nile flood. One of the dangers in building the Aswan high dam was figuring out how not to destroy the fertility of the narrow strip of arable land along the Nile below the dam in doing so.

    Just yesterday in a conversation with a biology professor on the recent flooding in Indiana, he pointed out this impact on the land. Yes farmers here are seeing a possible 80% loss for the year, but subsequent years when there is not flooding benefit from the restoration of the land that flooding brings by bringing in new layers of silt and soil.

  46. 46.

    mrl

    June 20, 2008 at 6:49 am

    I’ve been wondering myself what they did to incur God’s wrath and when some asshole “christian” was going to blame them. I think God is punishing them for voting for the Grand Old Perverts

  47. 47.

    dave

    June 20, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Ecoli should not be a problem as the manure is being deposited on the ground, not the young growing plants. Most produce contamination is from unclean picking/packing, irrigationor extremely short term flooding (too short to kill the plants) with contaminated water, and improper handling in homes and restaurants.

  48. 48.

    Hedley Lamarr

    June 20, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Rivers periodically flood. In doing so they deposit topsoil and other ingredients on the flood plain.

  49. 49.

    ACK

    June 21, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    “4tehlulz Says:
    These are all issues we must now consider. Like New Orleans, I think we need to discuss whether to rebuild Iowa. After all, didn’t it just get flooded in 1993?”

    Yes but UNLIKE New Orleans, this is already off the front page of newspapers and news sites, so I guess it’s not as bad if it doesn’t happen to mostly black people.

    Besides Iowa contributes much more to the country, with supplying food and all, than N.O.. I know, I know, “that’s a raci$t statement”… Whatever.

    How dare I speak my mind in the land of free speech (for some).

    This flood is already old news. The levies got toppled and nobody’s on TV blaming Bush because Al Sharpton is not on his soap box screaming racism.

    So I guess it’s “fvck the white farmers” uh?

    This country is ass backwards.

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