Since honorable military service is all you need to qualify for the White House, and gives you the only experience that matters, we may have a VP for McCain. Randall “Duke” Cunningham:
During his service, Cunningham and his Radar Intercept Officer “Irish” Driscoll became the only Navy aces in the Vietnam War, flying an F-4 Phantom from aboard aircraft carriers, and recording five confirmed kills. He was one of the early graduates of the Navy’s TOPGUN school that taught dogfighting techniques to F-4 Phantom pilots and Radar Intercept Officers (RIOs).
The upsides are tremendous- military service for the milblogger wing of the Republican party, he has a divorce under his belt so the social con/family values wing will embrace him like the other hypocrites they uncritically follow, multiple offensive gaffes so the right-wing wankosphere will get all dreamy about him, and the real upside, he doesn’t even hide the fact that he is a crook, so the business wing of the party will love him. He is the ultimate Republican uniter!
Plus, since he has military service, the media can fall all over him and any criticism of his past can be perceived as a grievous slight against God and man alike. I think this is a total win, plus, he has the right kind of military service, the kind that is unassailable. He has an (R) after his name.
As a side note, I really can not believe the crap Clark is going through for merely pointing out that military service does not make one fit for President (someone alert Admiral Stockdale), and I can not tell you how much it pisses me off to have to defend someone I don’t really like. I think I am going to be bitter and clinging to a drink soon.
El Cid
Good point, I’ll forward it to my Senator, um, I mean, ex-Senator Max Cleland, who apparently was also Saddam Hussein who plotted to weaken America, and who forgot to let go of a grenade ha ha.
LarryB
I hear you, John. 5 o’clock may come early for me too. The cognative dissonance on this one is blaring. McCain, a passed-over, not-so-hot pilot must not be questioned but Clark, an internationally-acclaimed 4-star general is just another America-hater. Classic IOKIYAR.
jake
Oh God, please don’t give them any ideas.
Keith
I think the media would go into a sugar coma from all the maverickness of that ticket.
calipygian
This guy is DEFINITELY up to keeping Cheney’s seat warm.
4tehlulz
>>I think I am going to be bitter and clinging to a drink soon.
Fucking signed.
Should I go with gin or vodka tonight?
Incertus
Welcome to the Democratic party, John. Have a couple on me.
Susan Kitchens
I know. While we’re at it, here’s a way to deal with the conundrum of the homeless problem, since a goodly number of homeless people are, in fact, veterans. And each and every one of them is worthy to be Commander In Chief. Just put em on the ticket; they’ll live in the White House. Homeless no more!
I love win-win solutions.
PaminBB
This is brilliant on so many levels. Duke also appeals to that all-important demographic, the really stupid.
calipygian
Someone kick me in the head to knock some sense into me.
The Derb is acutally making sense
When he’s wrong, he’s way fucking wrong. When he’s right, he makes the Corner worth monitoring.
The Moar You Know
My former rep, doin’ the 50th proud. Shout out for my homeboy Randy C!
I’ll say this; he was an appropriate choice for the majority of the constituents in my district, for all the reasons John cites.
Garrigus Carraig
Me too!!
(Not cuz of this, though.)
The Moar You Know
PS: A word about McSame’s piloting skills, since it gets bought up here so often; he wasn’t a bad pilot. Bad pilots don’t get to make even one carrier landing.
Problem with McSame is the one that concerns me the most about him being president; he got shot down because he used extremely poor judgement.
Not because he couldn’t fly the plane.
Tsulagi
“I am Barack Obama and I approve this message. Oh yeah, Clark sucks.”
Sasha
*Now* you’re a Democrat.
Just make sure you have a designated drive, ’cause when the bitterness of the rank bullshit double standard Democrats have to endure begins to sink in, you’re likely to just chug the bottle.
Cheers!
Rick Massimo
I really wish one of Our Media Stars would ask one of these professional victims to slow down and explain themselves with actual nouns and verbs. Something like, “Clark said getting shot down isn’t a qualification for president. Um, you’re saying it is?”
But no – they let them get away with squishy words like “insulting” and “attacking” and “calling into question.” Because being a conservative means never, ever, ever having to explain WTF you’re talking about.
Punchy
From the Big House to the White House.
Will Bush pardon Cunny? Why not?
Zifnab
This from a guy who was ready to start a fund raising page for Hillary “Inevitable Candidate” Clinton just a couple weeks after her “White People Are Racist, Vote for Me!” campaign was finished raping up.
I think you really just have a soft spot for guys who take a beating.
Joshua
Hey, you know who served his country honourably but isn’t a complete douche?
This guy.
Just sayin’. He MCed at The Amaz!ng Meeting, and now I feel like I should be shameless plugging him. ;) We need more congresspeople who feel comfortable standing in front of a room full of skeptics and scientists.
MNPundit
Time to come clean about why you don’t like him.
I’ve read his book and while I can imagine a few reasons you might not like him but still am not getting it.
TheFountainHead
I got chased by a vicious wolf-hound once. Do I get to be Secretary of the Interior or something?
jake
If McCain had never been shot down, single handedly taken out the VC and then gone on to topple the USSR, he’d still make a crap president. There’s no need to ponder the significance of events that took place over 40 years ago when McCain 2008 is locked in an endless battle with McCains 2000-2007.
And he’s got all the warmth and personality of a brick.
The guy is Mitt FlipFlop Romney with a military record and I’m sure every day his operatives give thanks to Cthulu that McCain was captured because it creates a lovely distraction. The GOP wants to make this election about McCain’s experience as a pilot and a POW because that’s all they got.
Zifnab
He hashed it out once before, and I honestly can’t remember what the beef was. I do have some vague recollection that he was wrong and needed to be corrected repeatedly by large swaths of his comment-folk.
sidereal
Is that a big, red Soviet star on Duke’s chest?
rawshark
You’re all just a bunch of DFHs who hate the military and don’t support the troops.
Is loving the military a virtue or something? I realize ‘hates the military’ is just typical republican dismisiveness but what is it based on? What the hell is military love? When did it become a requirement of american citizenship?
gbear
If we have to elect an ace pilot in November, I’m just going to write in Snoopy, do a happy dance, and be done with it.
tim
John, please don’t crawl into a bottle again. When you make that move, your posting becomes belligerent and a little bi…sad.
On second thought, crawl on in…the result is very entertaining. I’ll check back in later this evening. :)
calipygian
At my first duty station, there was a big black and white gun camera picture of the tail gunner of a Tu-95 Bear on the wall and it was signed, “Thank you. To the men of (blankety-blank) Division. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.”
It was signed by Randy “Duke” Cunningham.
I never knew why it was there and what my unit did to deserve it. By 1990, the whys and wherefores were lost to the mists of time.
Margarita
When Hillary Clinton cited her experience as First Lady as a reason to elect her president, I thought it was absurd. But it probably has more validity than claiming experience as a fighter pilot and POW as a qualification for conducting foreign policy.
Fighter pilot and POW is absolutely more impressive by far, and it does speak to the character of who we want to elect. But as an actual qualification it’s a complete non sequitur.
NewUnansweredQuestions
This churn overlooks the most important thing about today.
Obama is running a controlled and disciplined campaign, and that campaign had a plan for today and a message for today … the speech the candidate made at Independence, MO, which I commend to all for reading and reflection.
That’s why the campaign is distancing itself from Wes Clark today, because Clark is a guy who won’t stay on message. He’s a general with a big mouth and while I agree totally with his assessment of McCain’s qualifications vis a vis crashing several expensive airplanes, I don’t appreciate his flapping his gums and making himself the story today.
If I were Obama I would keep Clark away from the Sunday talk shows until December. The guy is an accident looking for a place to happen.
Delia
Now, now. The goopers are just feeling bad because last time they went with a bunch of chickenhawks who started a lot of stupid wars with other people’s children that went badly, and now they’re constantly getting snarked about being a bunch of chichenhawks who go and start stupid wars with other people’s children. They’re just hoping that if they elect a real war veteran, who was an actual POW (even if he was a sort Bottom Gun, so to speak) that the next time they start a stupid war with other people’s children that goes badly, they can avoid some of the snark attacks if they’ve got an Actual War Hero sitting in the White House. But it won’t work if someone in the MSM happens to notice that being an Actual War Hero in no way qualifies one to be president. So they’ve got to go ballistic whenever anyone points that out. And apparently the dems still haven’t learned anything . . . .
Cyrus
It’s funny how often you do this, and kind of admirable or at least entertaining. It’s easy picturing you grinding your teeth or rolling your eyes as you write stuff like this.
McCain-Feingold was one reason. I’m pretty sure John Cole says that all the money a candidate wants should be legal in politics, as long as there’s transparency about where it’s coming from and stuff, and McCain-Feingold creates problems for both halves of that. That doesn’t seem sufficient, but nothing else comes to mind. Cole can speak for himself, of course.
Crust
Brilliant.
Thank you for mentioning Stockdale. Remember he was in the Hanoi Hilton too, where he was the senior officer and showed unbelievable courage. From his Medal of Honor citation:
He risked his own life to deny the Vietnamese a propaganda victory. IIRC, when he suspected the Vietnamese were about to use him in a propaganda movie — they gave him a razor and told him to shave — he mutilated his face to foil their plans.
I don’t mean to deny that McCain served honorably. But if Stockdale didn’t get a free ride — and he sure as h*ll didn’t — I don’t remotely see why McCain should.
nightjar
I don’t know, but the more I learn about this the more it looks as if it was choreographed by Clark and the Obama campaign as Clark has made similar remarks the past few weeks. It wouldn’t be unheard of for a surrogate attack with the Nominee himself denouncing the remarks immediately, as is the case here.
And besides, who better to broach this subject that’s on everyone’s mind, than a former 4 star, combat wounded Vietnam vet and winner of the Silver Star.
NewUnansweredQuestions
This link is to the Obama speech in Missouri today.
I can assure you that this speech is about 1243 times more important, and more eloquent, than all the bullshit you will see or hear today about Wes Clark and John Fucking McCain.
nepat
Clark continues to do Hillary’s bidding by putting his foot in his mouth and making the Obama campaign look sleazy by Going There (yes, yes, I know it’s all true but a central tenet of the Obama campaign thus far has been to leave that particular issue alone. It’s a landmine.). Right now they’re at Hillary’s smiling widely, doing whiskey shots, and putting a big red X on their Countdown to 2012 calendar.
John Cole
It is completely and totally irrational, so when I get done explaining, no attempts to convince me that my reasons for disl’king him are irrational.
When you look at Wesley Clark, you see an accomplished general with a great background who you agree with on a lot of issues.
When I look at Wesley Clark, I see the jackass West Point Second Lieutenant who thought he was better than everyone in the platoon and who didn;t listen to the Platoon Sergeant and who repeatedly caused fucking drama and was the reason we had to go back to the motor pool after duty hours to unfuck things he made us do. I look at Wesley Clark and I see every ticket-punching officer’s officer who always put his career first.
There. I said it. I don’t know what it is, but that is what I see when I look at him. Maybe it is the NCO in me, I do not know, I just know that when I looked at Wesley Clark, I mentally think “He is one of THOSE prick officers.” I don’t think i am the only one who feels that way about Clark.
I know it is unfair, I know it is irrational, I know all that. Especially since Clark has been right about a lot of shit. But that is why and I can not explain it, I can only try to recognize that it is there and deal with it.
Tim, on the other hand, loves Wes Clark, and he was his choice in 2004 if I remember correctly.
crw
It was an excellent speech, but I’m sure the screechers will be complaining that Obama threw Vietnam protesters under the bush or something. But he’s making a valiant attempt to counter the right wing meme that military heroism and militarism in general are the only valid forms of patriotism. It was an excellent bit of reframing, casting greats such as MLK and other civil rights activists into the pantheon of true patriots along with our founding fathers.
Sadly, that message will go unheard because Wes Clark opened his yap and went off message.
peach flavored shampoo
Clark is just a phony solider.
John Cole
Off the top of my head, there are no substantive reasons for disliking him. I can’t explain it.
NewUnansweredQuestions
Well, we could also ask whether Clark is being nice enough to Muslims.
The thing is, if we really want a politics … and government .. more about ideas and less about personalities and “values” ….. we have to pay more attention to speeches like this, and less attention to the fluffheads on tv and their bullshit “controversies.”
Clark doesn’t get this, unfortunately. Nor does most of the blogosphere, which is all too happy to be part of the endless cycle of churn and distraction.
nightjar
While we’re discussing military heroes, here is a quote from my favorite. And maybe R. Cunningham’s too.
Oddball.
myabilitytoannoy2xu
I have decided to go insane.
Yes. I think that would be for the best.
Chris M
I’m guessing Olbermann is going to go apeshit on Obama for rejecting Clark.
jake
To the GOP: Any Republican who had “Other priorities,” or giant zit on his ass during Vietnam.
Zifnab
Hehe. Nice.
Yeah, that’s cool. We forgive ya.
calipygian
I worked with a lot of Army LTCs and retired LTCs and COLs at my last duty station. You aren’t the only one to feel that way about Wesley Clark, I can assure you.
protected static
Just so long as you don’t cling to a gun at the same time.
The exact degree of dangerousness presented by clinging to a Bible while drinking has been left as an exercise for the reader.
El Cid
Awesome work, all the right wingers who always respect a veteran’s war record (H/T Rachel Maddow):
Yeah. By all means let’s beat ourselves to death in penance over not falling on the ground and worshiping John McCain every time someone mentions he’s a vet and former POW.
Rick Massimo
Inaccurate? Did he say why? Is there a clause in the Constitution I missed? A new amendment?
slag
So glad for Rachel Maddow! You know that dude (who’s name I can never remember when I want to) who normally hosts Race for the White House would never have pulled that up. We need more Maddows!
KevinD
Out of 5 LT’s I went through, 4 were THAT GUY.
Just Some Fuckhead
John, I worked on Clark’s 2004 primary campaign and I don’t really like him anymore either. Turning his base over to HRC really pissed me off. It wasn’t his fucking base to turn over. -We drafted him.- So what was once a pretty cool community of folks committed to seeing Wes Clark elected President some day became a half dozen old harpies nipping at everyone else’s ankles to get in line behind HRC.
Also, Clark keeps going on Fox which pisses me off just as much.
Anyway, I’m sure you’ve got some stupid right-wing reasons for not liking Wes Clark so I’m fully prepared to light you up and it’s really going to put me in a bad mood to have to defend someone I really don’t like anymore.
El Cid
I thought in general it was pretty rare to have officers who came straight from the various schools to be accepted as ‘one of’ the enlisteds instead of being pains in the a**, as opposed to OCS or warrants.
In fact, I thought it was a pretty intentional and anthropologically designed plan to keep officers in general as a separate class from enlisteds.
jake
Isn’t this fun? We now live in a country where the 911th Frightened Keyboardists are braver and more patriotic than people who actually serve in the military!
John Cole
It may just be me, but when I look at Clark and Mitt Romney (and most of the wanker right wing at NRO), this is what I see.
myiq2xu
Maybe you bitches shouldn’t have fauxraged on Hillary
Just Some Fuckhead
You may be right John. But with your track record there’s a much greater chance you’re wrong.
Zifnab
GOD, I love that movie.
“Feed me kittens.”
Brilliant!
I still have arguments with my friends over whether he actually kills anybody in that movie or whether its all just in his head.
Zifnab
Shorter McIQ: *steaming turd*
mapaghimagsik
Somewhere its 5 o’clock. How many jets have you crashed today?
KevinD
LOL
Yeah, I can see Mitt coming up to someone and saying “So, you like Huey Lewis?”
Tsulagi
You sure you have the right Clark? Believe he held the rank of Captain when he earned a Silver Star in Viet Nam. Didn’t think you’re that old.
Maybe you’re talking around Desert Storm time when he was a two star. Generally the knock on Clark was he was ambitious and driven. Imagine that, a general and someone rising to the rank of four star being ambitious and driven. Sure wouldn’t see those qualities either in someone running for president.
Another knock on Clark, especially for the Pubs, was that he was perceived as being too friendly with President Bill Clinton. Wouldn’t be some of that good old-fashioned 90s era Clinton R-hate coloring your assessment, would it? j/k
Dennis - SGMM
Among others, I served in VT-23, one of the six squadrons which transitioned young pilots into jets and onto the boat around the time (’68-’71). You’re correct in stating that bad pilots never saw the boat: they usually eliminated themselves before the first touch and go. On the other hand, the need for pilots did let any number of marginal ones through. If the marginal pilot happened to be the son of CINCPACFLT then I imagine he’d pass no matter how many bolters (Failures to grab the arresting cable) he made.
McCain is a reverse-ace: he lost five of our aircraft. He could have been the victim of very bad luck but, I have known Navy and Marine Corps pilots who retired on twenty years’ service without losing one.
The Grand Panjandrum
Timothy McVeigh was a veteran. He also considered himself a POW and used the necessity defense in his trial for the Oklahoma City bombing. (Revenge for what he claimed were the illegal actions of the government with respect to the Waco incident.)
Josh
Right, because the Tuzla Tigress and her husband, Bill ‘I loathe the military’ would be so much better in this situation…
Just Some Fuckhead
I think John’s point is Clark reminds him of some asshole he used to know, not that Clark is an actual asshole or even that John has any knowledge of what Clark is personally like. When you’re a rightwinger, one of your key character assessment tools is the HeRemindsMeOfAnAssholeIUsedToKnow Buttonholer. This handy tool saves you countless hours reading boring biographies or otherwise familiarizing yourself with the object of your animus.
myiq2xu
I didn’t call you that, but if the shoe fits . . .
nightjar
Hillary who?
Delia
The big problem is that the Tuzla Tigress blew her cred back in the primaries with an unbelievably badly run campaign. It appears that Barack cleverly bided his time until after he’d sewn up the nomination.
myiq2xu
You used quote marks, so show me the quote bitch
myiq2xu
Isn’t “nightjar” another word for bedpan?
Just Some Fuckhead
You seem weirdly hung up about the Clintons for someone who claimed to be an Edwards supporter.
myiq2xu
Then fucked his supporters up the poop chute?
Davebo
The Forrestal was bad luck.
Flying into power lines? Not so much.
A flame out is also bad luck.
Flying into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings? Not so much.
KevinD
“Even if you never met him, you know this guy,” Rove said, per Christianne Klein. “He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, …”
Jay
The thing with Clark is that he got specific. He didn’t merely say: “McCain got shot down…blah blah blah.” He brought in all this stuff about “theaters” and “command squadrons” to say that “Mcain didn’t run shit in Vietnam, so he can’t run a country.”
Heck, in my view, one can be a Pvt. in a war and rise to be a good c-in-c, but said grunt had better lead a ROCK SOLID public life after he leaves the service, i.e. no Cunninghaming, please.
The John McCain of 2000 electrified me, but in my view, he has become too compromised since to be president. His reversal on waterboarding was the last straw for me. So, go Obama.
Deep down, McCain knows Clark doesn’t hate on his service. This is just a pissing match between two old soldiers; our media culture being teh stupid, they have lapped it up.
myiq2xu
I was an Edwards supporter, but I outgrew it.
What’s your excuse?
rawshark
Is loving the military a virtue or something? I realize ‘hates the military’ is just typical republican dismisiveness but what is it based on? What the hell is military love? When did it become a requirement of american citizenship?
Just Some Fuckhead
I was never an Edwards supporter so I don’t need one.
slag
I believe the point there was that Bill has baggage. Not necessarily completely deserved baggage, but baggage, nonetheless. Consequently, from a political perspective, Hillary would be a bigger liability in situations such as these.
Or in other words, “stfu, bitch”.
KevinD
Hitler was a Corporal
El Cid
Clark did not claim that McCain couldn’t run a country — he simply, clearly, and rightly stated that McCain’s military experience did not qualify him more to run a country than other people.
Clark was not disqualifying McCain based on his service; he simply clarified that McCain’s service was neither necessary nor sufficient to be a President.
nightjar
Only if it has wings and sings evening lullaby’s.
You’d think a double size brain would know that already.
Just Some Fuckhead
Clark was also correct. And the Obama campaign’s efforts to distance themselves from Clark’s spot-on remarks and play it safe with a small polling lead reminds me of why HRC lost despite polling well ahead of Obama at one point.
Tsulagi
LOL. That’s condensed pretty well.
So if based on the piloting skills McCain brings to the table, if he were president, we could expect bad luck alternating with pure fuckups. Now that’s experience you can believe in! Well, it would be a 50% improvement from the current occupant.
montysano
I just spent the last two weeks defending BO on the FISA bill, but I gotta tell you: his disavowal of Clark bothers me. I think BO is at a crossroads: he can be another triangulating, calculating politician or he can show some fight. He could have said “Gen. Clark has earned the right to express his opinion.”
Part of this is emotional: I’m fucking tired of our side getting Swift-Boated. I’m ready for a politician to get up in the wingnuts faces and call bullshit. Is that the smart political move? Probably not.
Delia
You seem bitter. Would you like a drink, a gun, and a Bible?
Calouste
McCain’s Vietnamese prison guard:
He might be referring to the Dubya definition of torture, although that seems to be more along the lines of “It isn’t torture if Americans do it to brown people, but it is if it is the other way around.”
JL
Webb is on Olbermann, anyone else watching? He discussed Bush giving McCain credit for the GI Bill. He’s handling it very well. Keith asked if he heard anything about VP and with a big smile he said not really.
Just Some Fuckhead
I know you can’t control your own bizarre maturation process (hormones and all) but it’d be cool if you tried. Fake it ’til ya make it, dawg.
KevinD
Goodtimes now on Countdown, Keith and Jim Webb shaking their heads over Team McBush’s attempt to claim credit for the new GI Bill. I don’t know how Webb can keep his cool listening to that crap.
KevinD
Webb is on Olbermann, anyone else watching?
KevinD
Damn, epic fail on the block quotes
mapaghimagsik
Haven’t seen the special comment yet. Worried KO is going to go all apeshit on the left and he’ll have completely joined the villagers.
KevinD
Wonder if Greenwald’s watching
JL
KO is actually making sense on Obama and the FISA bill, he’s damned if he votes for and he’s damned if he doesn’t.
robuzo
So did being a war hero qualify Audie Murphy to star in war movies, let alone play a cowboy?
Delia
Special Comment on now. KO is making amends for his temporary fall from grace on FISA. Reading Obama the riot act.
JL
Clark is on MSNBC next.. What did everyone who saw Keith’s comment think?
tim
John, regarding your admittedly irrational hatred of Wesley Clark: when you recognize an unreasonable, unfounded prejudice in yourself it is your duty to overcome it, not continue to operate from it. You sound a lot like crazy Andy Sullivan regarding Hillary…and Bill…and his early love for Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney, whose children he wished to bear.
It is childish in the extreme to hold up one’s gut resentments which are predicated on what a person “reminds” one of, as some kind of reason to disregard that person. Often, as I have learned, the qualities I PERCEIVE to exist in someone else that I react to the most strongly, are ones I need to work on in myself.
It is very hard to GET OVER one’s prejudices, but it is not that hard to work on recognizing and overcoming them on a day by day basis. If you don’t do that, your credibility suffers.
Are you referring to ME as a 2004 supporter of Clark? If so, I’m flattered; yeah I was hopeful he would be the nominee. His balls in taking on McCain and the press’s man-crush does not make me regret it either.
My god, have I been posting here for four years? I need to get a life.
Tim the Troll
Delia
I thought Keith was back on target with the comment. The dustup with Glenn was actually probably good for him.
JL
Delia, I thought Keith did a good job and Clark is doing a good job defending his statement.
Butch
Oh man, oh man! McCain’d be livin’ the dream with the Dukester on his wing! Imagine it – two rough ridin’ Naval Aviators at the helm of world peace and tranquility.
Gotta love it baby!
:)
KevinD
I thought Keith handled it well, he toned it down a little, almost like he knew people were watching him closer then usual. He’s really putting his money on the “criminal over civil route”. I hope John Dean knows what he’s talking about.
nightjar
Tim the Troll – Self-Help guru and Doctor of Headshrink Flim-FLamology. Have you published any books?
Crust
There are multiple problems with that argument. Perhaps the most glaring is that Olbermann is assuming that Bush doesn’t issue a blanket pardon on the way out (good luck with that one). As Greenwald has explained time and again, part of what is attractive about civil action — unlike criminal action — is that it cannot be dismissed by executive clemency.
Corner Stone
I stopped watching Olbermann a while back but what in the wide world would have you thinking this? ISTM that for KO, [anything BHO does] = CORRECT!
Therefore, denouncing a very credible military advisor and supporter due to sound byte = CORRECT!
Or am I wrong about KO on this one? Naaaaahhhhh.
Just Some Fuckhead
I didn’t understand a word of that but I admire your excitably ghey trolling.
KevinD
Keith actually touches on that, saying that Dean believes he wouldn’t do that because that would be admitting that his administration has been criminal.
I think he’s giving Bush too much credit, he’d pardon everyone on the way out, smirking the whole time.
Plus, I just think Obama’s going to go the “I’m not going to spend my political capitol on a witchhunt, I got a legacy to fullfil”
Adam
PING-PONG MATCH! … it was a
Adam
While the pardon power is generally considered to be almost unlimited, one thing that is at least questionable is whether it can be prospective (i.e. whether someone can be pardoned for a crime which they haven’t been convicted or even accused of in a court of law).
So in a very important respect, there may be strategic reasons to wait before going forward with prosecutions here.
nightjar
= CORRECT!
handy
“The KO Kid” (all you SoCals who listened to Jim Healey about 15 years ago will get that) did pretty well tonight, actually. The production theatrics were largely absent, save the cheesy camera angle changes. And more important, he pretty much called out what we all know: BO loses no matter how he votes on FISA, so he might as well push to strip immunity.
At this point, all the commentary is probably too little too late.
cleek
encephalitis doesn’t make you smarter; it generally causes confusion and irritability.
Jay
Feh. To the above writers:
“That squadron he had, it was not a command squadron.”
Clark used this to go to the “executive experience” point.
And yes, I agree military experience is not an end-all qualifier for the presidency; Clark could’ve said it better, though.
debrazza
I love John + 5. Get that drink son!
Corner Stone
It’s ok if you’re in love with teh keith. I understand that your essential nature is to fall in love with figures you feel possess authority. Whether it’s KO or BHO, you’re essentially just looking for a daddy to tell you what to think and what to believe.
I’m sure when JJC goes back to the Republican party you’ll happily follow and never question why.
John Cole
I believe a certain blogger pointed this out a few weeks ago. Bright guy, that fellow.
Just Some Fuckhead
C’mon dawg – find one admiring thing I’ve ever said about Keith Olbermann. I’ll give ya the rest of yer life. Absent evidence of my love for Keith Olbermann, did you have anything useful to add?
…
Oops, you don’t do useful, do ya? Dumbass.
JL
Bush should commute and then pardon Cunningham. That would probably clear the way for Cunningham to be VP and wouldn’t Bob Schaefer just swoon over those two he men.
HRA
“McCain is a reverse-ace: he lost five of our aircraft. He could have been the victim of very bad luck but, I have known Navy and Marine Corps pilots who retired on twenty years’ service without losing one.”
I know one Navy Corps pilot who took off and landed on carriers for 20 years without a mishap personally. He is my first cousin and more like my only brother. Losing that many aircraft shows McCain was given a pass due to his father.
Wes Clark was making a valid point. He did not demean McCain’s service and courage as a POW. He logically gave a summation on McCain’s military experience as it is being touted by his campaign for POTUS. Clark was right and he did very well on the Verdict with Dan Abrams. The panel did not get it.
KOs special comments included summation from John Dean who also had consulted with the ACLU on it. Wasn’t Nixon pardoned without a conviction or accusation in a court of law?
nightjar
It’s off to Snark School for you junior. This just won’t hack it. :-(
NewUnansweredQuestions
True, I just heard the entire segment from yesterday, and the fact is that Clark made a very clear, sensible and rational point without in any way brushing aside McCain’s service.
Hearing the entire thing in context, it was Schieffer who actually created the misunderstood section with his almost absurdly childish and ridiculous comment that somehow Clark was wrong about McCain because, after all, he’d crashed an airplane and been taken prisoner .. as if these events would have anything at all to do with McCain’s fitness for any job after the fact. The whole idea that McCain’s POW experience makes him fit for anything at all, except maybe as a technical advisor for a POW movie…. is just absurd on its face. Beyond absurd, an insult to the voter’s intelligence.
nightjar
McCain has been building a bridge between his POW experience directly to the presidency, with an undercurrent that said to the voters, if you don’t vote for me over Obama then your just not a patriotic American.
Somebody had to stand up and say no to that overreach in playing the hero card. MCcain can lay claim to exemplary service as a war veteran, but not use it to manipulate voters sense of patriotism unchallenged to it’s relative importance in choosing a president.
I say kudos for Clark for taking up that challenge in a sensible and respectful way. And he’s not backing down which is good to see.
Joshua Norton
So, by this bizarre standard, if Clark were to point out that Schieffer’s record of hosting “Face the Nation” is not necessarily a qualification to be president, he would have invoked his working for CBS against him.
You have to become desensitized to the basic reflex of nausea in order to even listen to this stuff. What is truly naive are journalism students who think they are training to be respectable professionals.
NewUnansweredQuestions
I guess the bottom line here is that since I have flown many airplanes and thousands of hours and never crashed, I am not qualified to be president. Or, maybe I am qualified since I managed not to get shot down or crash. Or maybe not, since I didn’t fly in combat. But, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a few times. In fact, I crashed there, but not in a plane.
I am so fucking confused now.
Joshua Norton
Someone should keep bringing up that McSame and his fellow Repiggies have also been W-R-O-N-G about every damned thing, too. Sure, he has a lot of experience – at fu*king up.
4 more years!!!
I don’t think so.
nightjar
It is only then we begin to understand
Ohmmmmmmmmmm
handy
I am a peaceful man but today I swear I coulda punched Trogdolyte Carlson today watching him try to spin on Abrams how the Swiftboaters were telling the truth about Kerry, and yet Clark was somehow way out of line swatting down a BS question from Schieffer. And Abrams his HuffPo buddy just triangulate and spin that somehow this talking excrement is right.
I just love our liberal media.
Delia
B…b..b.b..b…b. .but surely you see. This only goes to prove McMaverick’s wonderful qualifications. He fucked up as a pilot — repeatedly. Who better to follow in the footsteps of Georgie and screw over the entire world. If the Dukestir isn’t available for VP, maybe he could pick Bill Kristol. He’s probably as bloody-minded as Lord Cheney, even if he hasn’t shot anybody in the face yet.
Dennis - SGMM
People have no idea how crazy some military pilots are. We lost an aircraft and two pilots because, after doing gunfire observation for a destroyer offshore, they went out to the destroyer and put on an airshow. Dropped a bit doing a slow roll at low altitude and stuck one wing into the Tonkin Gulf. Aircraft sank like a stone. The squadron caught hell because half the crew of the destroyer was up on deck to watch the show and some of them took home movies. Got a WTF? message in clear from COMNAVAIRPAC over that one.
J. Michael Neal
The timing stepped all over Obama’s speech today. However, the combination of him backing away from Clark’s comments, and Clark continuing to repeat them, plays well for Obama. It probably plays well for Clark, too. He isn’t going to be the VP candidate, but he’ll be invited back on Sunday shows as long as he wants.
The Other Steve
This has now become the joke line of the Internet.
I think it was a mistake for the Republicans to come out attacking this by claiming “That’s not TRUE! Being shot down is a qualification for being President!”
Even Ben Smith had some fun at the expense of Swift Boaters on the McCain conference call.
Ken
Oh Shut Up. What Clark said was really stupid and why the hell should Obama defend that.
What did Clark say about Obama for the past year. Are you too stupid to look it up, or are you just lazy.
Dave_Violence
Jay said:
Ain’t that the truth. It astounds me that generation after generation of politicians just don’t understand the concept of keeping their noses clean.
Thusly, with the SCOTUS properly reading the law (2nd Amendment), it’s now time to really look at what a President Obama or McCain would do as president. With gun rights being a moot point to some degree, I’ll be listening differently to each candidate.
Bruce Baugh
The best comment on this mess I’ve seen so far is that if being a POW is a crucial qualification for the presidency, Jose Padilla and a bunch of guys in Guantanamo Boy are well fit for the office.
TenguPhule
Same shit, different day.
cleek
it wasn’t stupid. it was utterly obvious.
the stupid comes in when you take his words out of context and pretend like he was really trying to insult McCain.
Svensker
That’s not so bad. One of my husband’s uncles is (was?) the spitting image of Saddam Hussein, and it was tough to explain to outsiders why the whole family always had a soft spot for old Saddam. We didn’t really, but the initial reaction to pic of Saddam was “aw, what a nice uncle he is”. Now, thanks to Dubya, we don’t have to worry about that anymore.
4tehlulz
>>Now, thanks to Dubya, we don’t have to worry about that anymore.
Now we know the TRUE reason the U.S. invaded Iraq.
Xenos
It is stupid that Clark let himself get punked by CBS news. The full transcript clearly shows Schieffer prompting Clark into making that statement, and then we all see the synchronized hissy fit follow right on schedule.
I am curious about when that show was recorded. I suspect that the producers knew this was coming and alerted the operatives of the Get Outraged Party.
pinola
Show your support for Wes Clark here
pinola
Why is Cunningham’s codpiece cut out of the picture?
pinola
pologies for double post, not enuff coffee yet
pinola
apologies for the double post – not enough coffee yet
yet another jeff
Well, Lafayette park is full of homeless vets…just across the street from the WH…hell, they even sleep in the doorway of the bank across the street from the Treasury Dept. Does close count with homeless vets and the WH, or is that only for horseshoes and hand grenades?
Crust
Adam:
Not true. There have been many prospective pardons. The most famous was Ford’s pardon of Nixon, perhaps you’ve heard of it. Pardons also don’t have to be limited to individuals. For instance, Bush could pardon his entire administration (except himself) for illegal acts they committed in the course of their duties, or something like that. Pretty much the only check on the power of the pardon is impeachment.
What KevinD said. The idea that Bush — who has violated black letter law (FISA) while in office — might show restraint with the perfectly legal pardon power as he leaves office is just bizarre. His own Dad issued pardons to Iran Contra figures (notably Caspar Weinberger) as he left office.
Zuzu
To El Cid re Bud Day’s Kerry-sliming career.
Not only did he publicly smear Kerry as part of SBVT in 2004, he helped found a right wing group that used SBVT money to launch harrassment suits against Kerry and his supporters (which of course were laughed out of court):
VVLF
I am astounded that McCain would throw his lot in with this vile little man. I’m appalled that the press has said almost nothing about it.
Zuzu's Petals
To El Cid re Bud Day’s Kerry-sliming career.
Not only did he publicly smear Kerry as part of SBVT in 2004, he helped found a right wing group that used SBVT money to launch harrassment suits against Kerry and his supporters (which of course were laughed out of court):
VVLF
I am astounded that McCain would throw his lot in with this vile little man. I’m appalled that the press has said almost nothing about it.
Zuzu's Petals
Oops, sorry for the repeat. Was trying to correct my screen name.
Zuzu's Petals
Oops, sorry for the repeat. Was trying to correct my screen name.
Adam
The most famous was Ford’s pardon of Nixon, perhaps you’ve heard of it.
That was a retrospective pardon for past acts, not a general grant of clemency, and in any event was never tested in court. Moreover, there is precedent for setting public-policy limitations on the pardon power. Hoffa v. Saxbe.
Zuzu's Petals
Arggghhh…
bemused
Bud Day was McCain’s divorce attorney when he threw his first wife overboard.