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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2008 / The NRA Doubles Down

The NRA Doubles Down

by John Cole|  July 1, 200810:12 am| 148 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008

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Anyone who thought the NRA was actually concerned with gun rights and gun safety is simply fooling themselves:

The National Rifle Association plans to spend about $40 million on this year’s campaign, with $15 million of that devoted to portraying Barack Obama as a threat to the Second Amendment rights upheld last week by the Supreme Court.

“Our members understand that if Barack Obama is elected president, and he has support in the Senate to confirm anti-gun Supreme Court nominees, [the District of Columbia v. Heller decision] could be taken away from us in the future,” Chris Cox, head of the NRA’s political arm, told Politico.

The politically powerful gun rights group will split its message efforts between communicating with its 4 million members and the tens of millions more firearms owners across the country.

While we sit and snipe at our candidate, the right-wing moves in concert to elect McCain and to portray Obama as elitist, out-of-touch, scary, unpatriotic, anti-American, and a danger to civil liberties (a premise so offensive after the Bush years it almost makes you want to vomit). It is a well-oiled machine, and it has but one goal- win at all costs. They do not know shame, and they will say anything and stop at nothing.

And you wonder why so many people just say to hell with it and don’t even bother voting.

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Reader Interactions

148Comments

  1. 1.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Well, considering that even the dissent in Heller upheld the idea of an individual right to own firearms, Barack Obama, the non-anti-gun candidate, with his nonexistent anti-gun Senate support, would have to get 9 new justices on the bench to change that.

    This is a bad decision for them politically, because it kinda takes away the boogeyman. Of course, you have to have an IQ over that of a ficus to see that…

  2. 2.

    linda

    July 1, 2008 at 11:01 am

    and they have the lying whores of the national political press corps to assist, i.e., general wesley clark.

  3. 3.

    Nate

    July 1, 2008 at 11:03 am

    But they are just one vote away from having Hill and Barack Hussein Obama from storming their trailer to take back their rifles and shotguns!!!

    Oh my!

  4. 4.

    Nate

    July 1, 2008 at 11:03 am

    But they are just one vote away from having Hill and Barack Hussein Obama storming their trailer to take back their rifles and shotguns!!!

    Oh my!

  5. 5.

    johninpt

    July 1, 2008 at 11:05 am

    And you wonder why so many people just say to hell with it and don’t even bother voting.

    I don’t. For the most part it’s because they’re lazy and willfully ignorant and they like it that way. They have the power to change things but choose to let the powers-that-be continue to run things. Why bother to actually do something to improve the world when you can just sit around and bitch?

  6. 6.

    Zifnab

    July 1, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Do they really want to go down this road? It seems like the NRA is screaming for irrelevancy at this point. They could be expanding their operation to tear down additional barriers to gun ownership or expanding gun ownership popularity at the grassroots level. Instead, they’re taking up the same old tired banner that no one genuinely gave a fuck about four years ago, much less today.

    Not to use a hackneyed metaphor, but I think the NRA is going to really shoot itself in the foot on this.

  7. 7.

    Alex

    July 1, 2008 at 11:06 am

    It’s unlikely, even with a new composition, that the Supreme Court would be willing to take up an issue which they just decided any time soon or even in the foreseeable “future.” No matter how clearly we see the ideological lines drawn between the members, I just can’t believe that it would rescind a right it just enumerated–to think so is to project too much politics onto a very different type of group. More likely is the possibility that they would overturn some other Court’s decision from the now-distant-past. Busing is gone…next…Roe?

  8. 8.

    The Moar You Know

    July 1, 2008 at 11:08 am

    The National Rifle Association plans to spend about $40 million on this year’s campaign, with $15 million of that devoted to portraying Barack Obama as a threat to the Second Amendment rights upheld last week by the Supreme Court.

    “Our members understand that if Barack Obama is elected president, and he has support in the Senate to confirm anti-gun Supreme Court nominees, [the District of Columbia v. Heller decision] could be taken away from us in the future,” Chris Cox, head of the NRA’s political arm, told Politico.

    The politically powerful gun rights group will split its message efforts between communicating with its 4 million members and the tens of millions more firearms owners across the country.

    Hilarious. It will work, of course. Faced with the terrifying notion of a Scary Negro taking over the country, the mouth-breathers who compose the vast majority of the NRA’s membership will fork over all their disposable cash to anyone who promises to save them from the rule of the Scary Negro.

    The NRA really should have to register as an arm of the GOP; I still get about two or three missives from them each year (some fucker who I bought a firearm from put me on their mailing list) and the format of all the letters is as follows:

    1. OMG Hillary and Ted Kennedy are coming to get your guns!1!11eleven! Oh noes!
    2. Give us all your monies.

    Never ever a bad word about a Republican, even when they vote for or cosponsor any gun control legislation.

    I can only assume it works; the format has never varied. The Clintons have occupied the masthead position on the fundraising letters since 1992; I’m sure Kennedy has been on there much longer. I’m sure Barack is on there now as well (the last Scary Negro was Charles Rangel but Osama Obama is much much moar scarier). They usually only list three names as that’s all the information that your typical NRA member can absorb and process at one time.

    Don’t believe me? Go to a gun show.

  9. 9.

    The Thinking Man's Mel Torme

    July 1, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Interesting interview on Nice Polite Republicans last week with one of the litigators of the Heller case. He was definitely downplaying the decision, saying there was nothing in Heller that prevented “reasonable” gun restrictions. Siegel (?) asked him specifically about businesses preventing guns in the workplace. The litigator was emphatic in saying private property rights trumped the 2nd amendment, just as they trump all the others (he said your employer could bar you from reading the New York Times, for example).

    Guess nobody told Crispy Crist, hm?

  10. 10.

    El Cid

    July 1, 2008 at 11:10 am

    I always admired the NRA and similar organizations’ simultaneous right wing ability to (a) bitch & moan about how we don’t need new gun laws and restrictions, we just got to enforce the ones what we got, and (b) fight the ability to anyone to actually enforce existing gun regulations which the NRA etc claim to support.

    The way to get the righties to lay off the gun freakout is to launch a program to celebrate gun ownership & proper gun use among our nation’s biggest victims of violent crimes — women and poor inner city communities — by subsidizing their arming & proper use training.

  11. 11.

    DougMN

    July 1, 2008 at 11:10 am

    I’m wondering about your ‘while we sit and snipe at our candidate’ comment. Some would say our candidate sat and sniped at us first?

  12. 12.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 11:10 am

    And you wonder why so many people just say to hell with it and don’t even bother voting why the fuck are we carping about whether Barack is being nice enough to Muslims, or is getting ready to throw himself on a bonfire to please the stupid FISA fanatics?.

    But hey, don’t let that stop anybody. Don’t consider for a goddam second that winning this election is far more important than today’s version of Hey Look At Me in the blog world.

    I will say it again: Winning a national election in this country is a fiendishly difficult thing to do and requires discipline and teamwork. If you want to win, get on the team. If you can’t be on the team, then get off the team and join the ranks of the losers in the Concern Troll demographic and go piss up a rope.

    Shoe, fits, wear. Discuss.

  13. 13.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 11:12 am

    While we sit and snipe at our candidate

    Psshhtts.

    Irony, like Generalissimo Franco, remains dead.

  14. 14.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 11:14 am

    If he loses, it aint gunna be due to a guns issue. I’ll be due to a Black issue. Of course, the GOP racists will likely link the two.

    I think Obama ought go all ‘Chuck D.’ and campaign with a backround picture of pasty-white McCane in the background with the slogan “Fight the Powder”….

  15. 15.

    D. Mason

    July 1, 2008 at 11:16 am

    This is really quite pathetic. This country needs an organization standing up for for second amendment but the NRA clearly is not that organization. It was George Bush’s federal government who snatched(or at least started snatching) legally owned firearms from residents of New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. That a group which purports itself as a defender of gun rights would support his ideological successor is abhorrent. And wasn’t the brady bill a bi-partisan effort spearheaded by republicans? I was young then so maybe I’m wrong but I don’t recall hearing much from the NRA about this little bit of trivia. Despite the dems big talk about gun control, it seems to be the Republicans who are so hot for taking away gun rights. Why would anyone contribute to or participate in a group that claims to protect gun rights while throwing its full throated support behind gun grabbing politicians?

  16. 16.

    Fwiffo

    July 1, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Well, these are the people Obama is expecting to win over by throwing his friends under the bus stabbing his friends in the back distancing himself from the DFHs. We know how well that’s worked for Democrats historically.

  17. 17.

    crack

    July 1, 2008 at 11:22 am

    I don’t wonder, it’s because Democratic candidates cave and treat Democratic voters like the wussy America haters the MSM claims they are.

  18. 18.

    jake

    July 1, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Don’t tell the NRA that no one likes a sore winner.

    Best outcome: The NRA gets into a big fight with the other freak jobs who want SC judges that agree with them on their cause.

  19. 19.

    Face

    July 1, 2008 at 11:22 am

    I would love to know if the NRA allows its members and/or employees to bring their guns, fully concealed, into their national headquarters (whereever the hell that is).

    Anyone know?

  20. 20.

    D. Mason

    July 1, 2008 at 11:23 am

    If you want to win, get on the team. If you can’t be on the team, then get off the team and join the ranks of the losers in the Concern Troll demographic and go piss up a rope.

    Shorter TZ: Either lockstep or we don’t want your vote.

  21. 21.

    Cols714

    July 1, 2008 at 11:24 am

    When was the last time the Democrats talked about gun control? I don’t think it even ranks among the top 10 or 20 things that people are worried about this election.

  22. 22.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    July 1, 2008 at 11:25 am

    ThymeZone Says:

    And you wonder why so many people just say to hell with it and don’t even bother voting why the fuck are we carping about whether Barack is being nice enough to Muslims, or is getting ready to throw himself on a bonfire to please the stupid FISA fanatics?.

    But hey, don’t let that stop anybody. Don’t consider for a goddam second that winning this election is far more important than today’s version of Hey Look At Me in the blog world.

    I will say it again: Winning a national election in this country is a fiendishly difficult thing to do and requires discipline and teamwork. If you want to win, get on the team. If you can’t be on the team, then get off the team and join the ranks of the losers in the Concern Troll demographic and go piss up a rope.

    Shoe, fits, wear. Discuss.

    July 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Bravo! (and thanks for saying it better)

  23. 23.

    Wilfred

    July 1, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Well, these are the people Obama is expecting to win over by throwing his friends under the bus stabbing his friends in the back distancing himself from the DFHs

    As if on cue:

    With an eye toward courting evangelical voters, Senator Barack Obama is presenting a plan on Tuesday to expand President Bush’s program of investing federal money in religious-based initiatives that are intended to fight poverty and perform the work of social services.

    A Jesus in every pot.

  24. 24.

    slag

    July 1, 2008 at 11:32 am

    But wait. I thought that Obama was being cynical by claiming that he was turning down public financing because of the Republican attack machine. Are you suggesting that the attack machine actually still exists? To quote John McCain, “That’s nonsense; that’s nonsense; that’s nonsense; that’s nonsense…”

  25. 25.

    Gus

    July 1, 2008 at 11:32 am

    they’re taking up the same old tired banner that no one genuinely gave a fuck about four years ago

    The NRA is marketing itself to the bitter people that Obama spoke of, and make no mistake, that bitter quote was a gaffe in the Michael Kinsley sense, i.e. when a politician tells the truth. As the economy continues to sour there will be more of them.

  26. 26.

    Angry Engineer

    July 1, 2008 at 11:36 am

    The NRA is about winning elections, not protecting gun rights. This goes back quite a ways, but really took on a life of its own after the assault weapons bill and Republican re-taking of the House in ’94.

  27. 27.

    JR

    July 1, 2008 at 11:42 am

    It is hilarious how so many “Unity for the Win” Democrat partisans are constantly berating the field of voters and telling them to “piss up a rope” or “get off this blog loser!” etc, etc.

    Tragically pathetic but amusing after so many years of Dem Party failure. How about this novel idea: force the Party to represent those it claims to represent, and maybe all this under-bus-throwing of dissent will become unnecessary.

  28. 28.

    The Moar You Know

    July 1, 2008 at 11:48 am

    And wasn’t the brady bill a bi-partisan effort spearheaded by republicans? I was young then so maybe I’m wrong but I don’t recall hearing much from the NRA about this little bit of trivia.

    Of course you didn’t. Your homosexual activist public school teachers, in league with Palestinians and Nancy Pelosi, didn’t teach you.

    The Democrats, lead by Adolf Hitler from 1929 until 1980, took time out from planning gay orgies at Studio 54 and forcing American schoolchildren to burn flags to pass a law, known as the “Brady Bill”. The “Brady Bill” originally called for the institution of communism and Islamic law, as well as the changing of the name of our country from “The United States of America” to “AmeriKKKa”, because all Democrats hate America and want it to look as bad as possible. Oh, and the bill also called for the amputation of all gun owners’ penises.

    The Brave Republicans, who have always been on the side of the Little Guy and The Average Everyday Joe, bravely occupied the Congress Building for many days and took their big man guns and shot them in the air at Democrats.

    The Democrats, being Hippies, Women, Brown People and Homosexuals, peed their pants and pantsuits and ran away from the Brave Republicans, as they always run away from everything.

    The Brave Republicans had saved America, but the dirty underhanded Democrats had cheated, like they always do, and put language into their surrender agreement that made the government pass the Brady law. The Brave Republicans didn’t read the surrender agreement that far because they had better things to do, like oiling up their man guns for the next communist invasion.

    Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Jane Fonda all went out and had a gay sex orgy afterwards to celebrate tricking the Brave Republicans.

  29. 29.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 11:49 am

    The NRA, after the the Heller decision, is experiencing the Al Capone syndrome — (Or now that they’ve legalized drinking what’s a Rum Running bootleg Gangster to do). In the NRA case it’s donations and political influence their afraid of losing. I think their fears are way overblown, and overblown fears of the Right, usually cause kneejerk reactions epic in absurdity and nastiness.

  30. 30.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 1, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Shorter TZ: Either lockstep or we don’t want your vote.

    Swing and a miss.

  31. 31.

    Zifnab

    July 1, 2008 at 11:51 am

    It is hilarious how so many “Unity for the Win” Democrat partisans are constantly berating the field of voters and telling them to “piss up a rope” or “get off this blog loser!” etc, etc.

    Tragically pathetic but amusing after so many years of Dem Party failure. How about this novel idea: force the Party to represent those it claims to represent, and maybe all this under-bus-throwing of dissent will become unnecessary.

    Cheers to that.

    I mean, here’s a thought to the lock-step partisans of the world. Perhaps – after accepting hundreds of billions of small dollar donations from a massive grassroots outfit – you could be so kind as to not shit on said grassroots folks with policy proposals that directly contradict your stated claims.

    I really don’t enjoy feeling played. Watching Obama turn into Bush-Lite to McCain’s Bush-Bock just because someone in Peoria still has a twelve foot hard-on for the Chimp-in-Chief makes me fucking sick. It’s what lead so many would-be Gore voters to go Green in 2000. It’s what lead so many would-be Kerry voters to stay home or waffle on supporting him in 2004. Why show up to vote if Obama is just going to put on his “I’m A Moderate” hat and play the triangulation game?

    Fuck. I’ll still vote for him. I would be voting for Clinton had she won the primary, and she was pulling this shit in the primary, but I can’t help but wonder and regret. What would a Hillary general election candidate look like? Would I still have such a sick feeling in my stomach every time she opened her mouth? Or would she be as deliberately belligerent as she’s ever been and start taking cheap shots at McCain all over the map?

    *sigh*

  32. 32.

    Davebo

    July 1, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Can we finally put the “thrown under the bus” tripe to sleep? At least on our side?

    It’s the most over used metaphor on the intertubes.

  33. 33.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Where’s the open thread? Where am I gonna put this?

  34. 34.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Either lockstep

    I gotta tell you, the realization that half of Dems are just fucking idiots and talk like this is not heartening. Half of Dems are just as fucking stupid as Republicans.

    Staying on message and staying focussed on an immensely difficult goal is not “lockstep” you incredibly stupid moron.

    Failure to do this is why only one Dem presidential candidate in the last 60 years has won over 50% of the popular vote according to Markos Moulitsas. It’s why Kerry lost and why you have George Bush as president.

    Fucking stupid idiots. You have the most disciplined, focussed and intelligent campaign for the White House that Dems have had in our lifetime. But you sure as fucking hell don’t deserve it.

  35. 35.

    Patrick Briggs

    July 1, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    It is possible to criticize Obama’s move to the center and throwing his allies under the bus and letting the Republicans keep that idiotic framing of national security that says they can defend America better

    AND

    Voting for Obama and getting out there to do the work necessary to see that it happens.

    I get tired of all of you people who want to label people like me whiners and people without a concept of the bigger picture.

  36. 36.

    Patrick Briggs

    July 1, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Thymezone, people like you with your foul mouth and name calling do more damage than any of the carping on the left that you are so intent on stamping out.

    What? Do you think calling your fellow liberals “fucking stupid” is persuasive?

    YOU need to get off you self-righteous hobby horse and find more respect for your fellow human beings.

  37. 37.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    we don’t want your vote.

    Your vote? Fuck you, go ahead and vote for John McCain and then sit here and bitch about him for the next four years.

    It’s not your vote I worry about, it’s listening to your stupid and useless bitching about things that do not matter.

    A national election is a little like a racing shell. You paddle like a motherfucker until you get to the finish line. You don’t sit there and go “Wahh, the coach wouldn’t say my favorite yell at team meeting this morning.”

    Seriously, you fuckers don’t deserve to win this election.

  38. 38.

    Davebo

    July 1, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Awesome jibeaux!

  39. 39.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    It’s amazing how many democrats don’t see a difference between Campaigning for POTUS and being the POTUS. I think I have a pretty good idea where Obama comes down on most progressive issues, and that is, well, progressive. Though I also believe he is a center–left liberal, not a leftist or socialist, or whatever.

    A presidential campaign is first and foremost an exercise in getting the most votes a candidate can. That doesn’t mean jumping all over the political spectrum, like say a MCcain is doing, because like most things spectral there is a law of diminishing returns at play. For a dem cand – Go to far right for votes and risk losing equal or greater numbers of liberal votes, and repubs and vice-versa.

    It is a delicate Kabooky dance that causes angst amongst the faithful when the cand. speaks heresy, but it is not governing. But why does it have to be this way some ask? The answer is it doesn’t, but it is what it is and I think so far Obama is purposefully moving toward the center in a way that won’t that cause great pain in governing. But he can go to far and it seems to me he’s up to the line on some issues.

  40. 40.

    Wilfred

    July 1, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    But you sure as fucking hell don’t deserve it

    Thanks, but no angst.

  41. 41.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Good grief, TZ, supporting the right side but having criticism when it’s merited aren’t mutually exclusive. When someone comes in here and says they aren’t voting for Obama because of some silly middle-America pandering, then you can get your knickers in a wad, ok? The vote counts just as much even if some magical unity dust gets knocked off.

    I’m not as disturbed by the faith-based initiatives as most liberals, personally, because I wasn’t that disturbed by Bush’s. Some of those groups are well-positioned to do a lot of good, and I just don’t see federal dollars for shelters and drug counseling with a religious message the same way I see, say, elementary schools with a religious message. So there’s my mavericky moment.

    Voting for the FISA “compromise” and shunning Muslim voters are more of a disappointment to me.

  42. 42.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    then you can get your knickers in a wad

    I can and will say what I want to say when I want to say it, and if you don’t like it, you can go fuck yourself.

    Ok?

  43. 43.

    Gus

    July 1, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    TZ, good to hear that “get on the team” doesn’t mean march in lockstep, ’cause it sounded that way. I’ll reserve the right to criticize Obama’s stances on FISA and a number of other things while still working to get him elected. There’s plenty of room between “our candidate must not be questioned” and “our candidate is a traitor to our ideals.”

  44. 44.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Awesome jibeaux!

    Isn’t it? My initial thought was, this is the greatest thing the internets have ever produced.

  45. 45.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I can and will say what I want to say when I want to say it, and if you don’t like it, you can go fuck yourself.

    And why doesn’t that apply to everyone else here, exactly?

  46. 46.

    Wisdom

    July 1, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Wow, you Democrats can’t help yourselves.

    Does anyone remember that Heller was 5-4? I’m sure an Obama SCOTUS appointee wouldn’t have ruled that one any differently…

    Let me explain something to you jaw-jaws. NRA members know Heller was the right decisision and they know it was by one vote.

  47. 47.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Do you think calling your fellow liberals “fucking stupid” is persuasive?

    It descriptive, and accurate. Persuasion is not on the table, never has been and never will be. People do not come here to be persuaded, and they should not come here to persuade. Waste of time.

    I am expressing a point of view, and if you don’t like it, you can either argue an alternative view, or you can go fuck yourself. But don’t try to beat me down with shit like this. Obviously, you don’t know me very well.

    Do you actually have a counter argument? For example, that carping like whiny kids in the middle of a political combat zone where we are playing for keeps is actually a good idea and can be shown to be useful? Then go ahead, make that argument. I disagree. I strongly disagree.

    What two messages were advanced by the Obama campaign yesterday? Do you know? Can you discuss them?

  48. 48.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I’m sure an Obama SCOTUS appointee wouldn’t have ruled that one any differently…

    Whoa, Obama can TIME TRAVEL? Holy shit, we have got to elect this guy! I totally want to see a dinosaur.

    Like the ironic handle, though.

  49. 49.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 1, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    I’m sitting here in awe of the masterful way in which Zifnab has co-opted the grassroots in an effort to use it as a cudgel against our nominee.

    You can’t really find that sort of hubris in the traditional Democratic blocs of support. They just pitch in and do whatever it takes to win.

    But Fuckhead, I’m so disappointed.. *long sigh*

  50. 50.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    And why doesn’t that apply to everyone else here, exactly?

    Who said it didn’t, you strawman hugging asshole?

    I’ve been posting here for going on four years and I haven’t stopped anyone else yet.

    But if I were out to do that, and seeing how you respond, my approach would be simple. You will turn the argument into a discussion about me, as you are doing now. As soon as you do that, you are done. Whatever other argument you thought you are advancing is over at the point.

    So like I said, do you have a view that is a counter to mine? You should make it, or else you will spend the rest of the day discussing how big an asshole you think I am. And I gotta tell you, that matter was settled a long time ago by better commenters than you. If you get my drift.

  51. 51.

    Tsulagi

    July 1, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Well, a good thing for Obama is that McCain is not perceived by many to be their best 2nd Amendment advocate. In fact, for those that think that should be the one and only amendment to the Constitution, during the Pub primaries a lot of them were saying anyone but McCain.

    Now, however, some of the emails I’ve bothered to open often follow the 11th commandment known to all Republicans. It’s really funny, they’ll start out essentially with “Yeah, McCain sucks, we all know that, BUT OBAMA IS MUCH WORSE!” Now that’s a rallying cry to believe in: We suck, but the Democrats are always worse.

  52. 52.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Does anyone remember that Heller was 5-4? I’m sure an Obama SCOTUS appointee wouldn’t have ruled that one any differently…

    Let me explain something to you jaw-jaws. NRA members know Heller was the right decisision and they know it was by one vote.

    So you don’t think an Obama SCOTUS appointee would have ruled differently than the final decision, but point out that NRA members know it was by one vote.

    My question is then, why don’t NRA members vote for Obama since they will have nothing to lose. Do you see in that the wisdom wisdom.

  53. 53.

    slag

    July 1, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    What’s a jaw-jaw?

  54. 54.

    D. Mason

    July 1, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    I gotta tell you, the realization that half of Dems are just fucking idiots and talk like this is not heartening. Half of Dems are just as fucking stupid as Republicans.

    Heres the bad news for you. I’m not a democrat and contrary to what you probably think, that doesn’t make me a republican either. I am someone who honestly wants the best candidate despite what his party affiliation is. I like to call that group: “the voters Obama desperately needs to win” because there aren’t enough partisan dems like yourself, and never have been. And here you are, claiming to be an Obama supporter, telling everyone who isn’t swooning for your guy to piss up a rope. Well played.

    Because I am somewhat politically informed and aware of the dangerous road America has traveled down for far too long, your idiotic jabs and childish insults won’t deter me from doing whatever I think is the right thing to do in November. With that being said – people like you are a negative reflection on your chosen candidate. Some people don’t even differentiate between a candidate’s stance and that of his die hard supporters. You can deter those people from voting. Your screeds read an awful lot like “fall in behind my guy or you’re a stupid redneck who is not fit to live in America”. Do you really think thats how to win over the people who never thought they would see a legitimate black presidential candidate, let alone consider voting for one? Those people are just as goddamn sick of the same old shit as you and me and they are hungry for less featly and lock-stepping, not more. You can tow the line all you want but if you keep telling others to tow it or go vote for McCain you might just get what you ask for asshole.

    BTW, Depite having stated numerous times my intent to vote for the dem candidate, I know this will get me labeled(by you, the most hyper-partisan commenter on this blog) as a concern troll or McCainiac or some other stupid slur that you think is clever. I don’t care.

  55. 55.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    I haven’t stopped anyone else yet.

    And how would you do that, exactly? My point, obviously, is that you don’t exactly “fuck off” when other people have opinions.

    that matter was settled a long time ago by better commenters than you. If you get my drift.

    But were they male or female?

  56. 56.

    Wilfred

    July 1, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    What two messages were advanced by the Obama campaign yesterday?

    How about today – the faith-based initiative?:

    “

    Now, I know there are some who bristle at the notion that faith has a place in the public square,” Mr. Obama intends to say. “But the fact is, leaders in both parties have recognized the value of a partnership between the White House and faith-based groups.”

    This sort of thing is not part of progressive politics, which is based on strict secular government. And I do fucking bristle because I doubt that Obama will include Muslim-based programs in this initiative.

  57. 57.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    “get on the team” doesn’t mean march in lockstep, ‘cause it sounded that way.

    No, it didn’t, and your saying so doesn’t make it so. Being on a team under fire doesn’t leave a lot of room for complaining that the coach is calling your favorite play. That’s my opinion, and you are not persuasive to the contrary. That’s not lockstep thinking, it’s teamwork 101. A national campaign is a strange and very unique slice of time. It’s not a time for voting on whether the we like the play selection.

    I’ll reserve the right to criticize Obama’s stances on FISA and a number of other things while still working to get him elected.

    Good for you, how brave of you. And I will reserve the right to tell you that you are a horse’s ass, that FISA is not anywhere near the top of the list of most important things to be concerned about right now, and that this thing you are doing takes focus away from the things that are most important. That’s my opinion, and I’m out to express it in the most aggressive way as I see fit.

  58. 58.

    Sloegin

    July 1, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    This is the same crowd that blathers about UN black helicopters, US national parks somehow being converted into international zones protected by some kind of one world government, and a Mexico-Canada international highway “splitting” the US in half.

    There’s no talking sense with these nuts.

  59. 59.

    slag

    July 1, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Where’s the open thread? Where am I gonna put this?

    Was I just Cockrolled?

  60. 60.

    El Cid

    July 1, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    The Moar You Know Says:

    …The Democrats, lead by Adolf Hitler from 1929 until 1980, took time out from planning gay orgies at Studio 54 and forcing American schoolchildren to burn flags to pass a law, known as the “Brady Bill”. The “Brady Bill” originally called for the institution of communism and Islamic law, as well as the changing of the name of our country from “The United States of America” to “AmeriKKKa”, because all Democrats hate America and want it to look as bad as possible. Oh, and the bill also called for the amputation of all gun owners’ penises.

    This entire comment made me laugh and improved my day.

    However, such an expenditure of time and energy diverted potential time and energy from support for the Democratic presidential candidate, so I must ask you to cease and desist such distraction, anti-unity loser.

  61. 61.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    But were they male or female?

    Beats me, who gives a shit.

    And one more thing. Whoever used the “foul mouth” perjorative upstream? Shove it up your ass. I have never used a word here that hasn’t already been used by the blog owner first. I’ve never strayed from that rule so far as I know. If you have a problem with the language here, take it up with him. His email address is in plain view.

  62. 62.

    w vincentz

    July 1, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    The kid, David, only had a few pebbles that he picked up from a creekbed, and a sling. Goliath found out what he really had. I don’t think the NRA was involved.
    The Vietcong sharpened bamboo and tipped them with poo.
    The USA found out what they really had. I don’t think the NRA was involved.
    The Minutemen had squirrel rifles while the British occupiers had 75 cal Brown Bess’s and a big white cross on their red coats that made a very sweet target. They didn’t know what real patriots had either. I don’t think the NRA was involved.
    I could go on and on…
    Now, if any bible thumpers are hanging around these BJ parts, enlighten me. Besides warning Peter about “living by the sword and dying by the sword”, what weapon did Jesus carry everyday? (The NRA was definately not involved). I know the answer already, but make your best guess.

  63. 63.

    Face

    July 1, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    It’s not your vote I worry about, it’s listening to your stupid and useless bitching about things that do not matter.

    Please tell me you wrote this backwards. You really care more about bitching on a blog than how they vote? That gets Obama elected……how?

  64. 64.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Beats me, who gives a shit.

    Oh, so that was special treatment, just for me?

    However, such an expenditure of time and energy diverted potential time and energy from support for the Democratic presidential candidate, so I must ask you to cease and desist such distraction, anti-unity loser.

    Now, that is funny.

  65. 65.

    Tsulagi

    July 1, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    I gotta tell you, the realization that half of Dems are just fucking idiots and talk like this is not heartening. Half of Dems are just as fucking stupid as Republicans.

    You mean like this guy?

    It looks like Obama is gun-shy after sticking by Jeremiah Wright. Now, he can’t move quickly enough to denounce his own allies. So he’s cross at Wes Clark, and he’s mighty cross at MoveOn as well! Who else will he be cross with as he kicks off “Operation Piss Off the People Supporting and Bankrolling His Campaign In Order To Prove He Hates the Dirty Fucking Hippies”. Now that the primary is over, he can turn his back on the people that brought him.

    I was going to max out to him today, given I haven’t given Obama a dime yet (focusing on congressional candidates). But I changed my mind. He wants to send the message that he doesn’t need us, all the power to him. Message received. I’ll spend that $2,300 somewhere else.

  66. 66.

    rawshark

    July 1, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Davebo Says:

    Can we finally put the “thrown under the bus” tripe to sleep? At least on our side?

    It’s the most over used metaphor on the intertubes.

    Can we switch it to ‘sang Celebration’? I’d have to say that episode of CHIPS is just as bad Fonzie jumping the shark.

  67. 67.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    How about today

    In other words, you don’t know the answer to my question?

    You don’t know what the two central messages of the Obama campaign were yesterday, and how they intersected?

    As for your comment about the faith-based groups, I strongly disagree with what I think you are saying (correct me if I got it wrong).

    Nobody here is a stronger proponent of strict church-state separation than I am. But I don’t agree that this separation requires an adversarial relationship with faith based groups.

    There’s a difference between asking for votes from any demographic group, and pandering to them.

    Obama knows how to make those distinctions. You can figure out for yourself whether his opponent does, and then choose the candidate you think is the best one in this context.

  68. 68.

    srv

    July 1, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Thread #824, Serious Trolls alienate other Bush haters.

    News at 11.

  69. 69.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    so that was special treatment, just for me?

    Nope. I give all buttheads the same rotten treatment. There is nothing special about you.

  70. 70.

    Gus

    July 1, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Yay, TZ called me a horse’s ass! I’ll wear it as a badge of honor. Or I would if I gave a shit about what he said.

  71. 71.

    Patrick Briggs

    July 1, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    ThymeZone,

    I will take it up with the blog owner. You are an offensive human being who despite your intelligence forgot how to act with love and respect to your fellow man.

    Your behavior DETRACTS from the discussion and it’s almost like you seek out it becoming about you.

  72. 72.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    There is nothing special about you.

    Aside from allegedly paying money to determine my gender, naturally.

  73. 73.

    Gus

    July 1, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Obama knows how to make those distinctions

    So does any politician. He knows he’s pandering.

  74. 74.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    I’ve read in a number of places that some of NRA’s members, being hunters and/or fisherman, are voting Democratic this year purely and soley due to environmental issues.

    Cannot imagine an outdoorsman is too happy with river pollution, deforestation, and unchecked land development. Hopefully, Obama will play that angle in his speeches, too.

  75. 75.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    I will take it up with the blog owner. You are an offensive human being who despite your intelligence forgot how to act with love and respect to your fellow man.

    TZ is sort of the drunk in an otherwise charming bar, who is always there and has an opinion about everything, who is tolerated by most but actually liked by no one. Despite having no ownership stake in the bar, he will take credit for not kicking out other patrons. He is not kicked out by the bar owner because he drinks a lot, and has sort of become a fixture or accessory, like the wallpaper.

  76. 76.

    srv

    July 1, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    Besides warning Peter about “living by the sword and dying by the sword”, what weapon did Jesus carry everyday?

    Looks like a Winchester 1873. He looks tired after dealing with all those ungrateful natives.

  77. 77.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 1, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    It looks like Obama is gun-shy after sticking by Jeremiah Wright. Now, he can’t move quickly enough to denounce his own allies. So he’s cross at Wes Clark, and he’s mighty cross at MoveOn as well! Who else will he be cross with as he kicks off “Operation Piss Off the People Supporting and Bankrolling His Campaign In Order To Prove He Hates the Dirty Fucking Hippies”. Now that the primary is over, he can turn his back on the people that brought him.

    I was going to max out to him today, given I haven’t given Obama a dime yet (focusing on congressional candidates). But I changed my mind. He wants to send the message that he doesn’t need us, all the power to him. Message received. I’ll spend that $2,300 somewhere else.

    Wow.. he sounds like an angry leader of his group, Dirty Fucking Hippies. That worries me more than Zifnab, who runs a much larger organization, Grassroots, but is just really disappointed.

  78. 78.

    D. Mason

    July 1, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Your behavior DETRACTS from the discussion and it’s almost like you seek out it becoming about you.

    This is another one of those internet traditions that we’re all so very familiar with.

  79. 79.

    Doug H. (Fausto no more)

    July 1, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I will take it up with the blog owner. You are an offensive human being who despite your intelligence forgot how to act with love and respect to your fellow man.

    Here, have some pearls to clutch. Welcome to Balloon Juice.

  80. 80.

    binzinerator

    July 1, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    TZ:

    …fucking idiots…fucking stupid…fucking stupid idiots … fucking hell…fuckety fucking fuckers fuck moron stupid fuck etc. etc.

    Uh, TZ, you’re starting to sound like me on a rant. Not that what you just ranted about would ever be what I’d rant about but the invective sounds familiar.

    Go ahead if you wanna, but I also know I’m at my least effective when I’m in full blown incinerator nerd-rage (not that that knowledge helps me save me from myself either…).

    Shucks, if only I could keep cool like Dan Tanna, who always handled everything so much better than me, he kept his cool and was never was out of sorts. Plus, all the hot chicks wanted him. But hey, I’m just a Binzer, try as I might I can never fill his shoes so I am now content with my lot in life.

    But ya know, I supported the MUP because Obama wasn’t going to the center. The center has been redefined by the goopers. The center is now enablers of status quo Bushism, made up of the mouthbreathing social cons and pantswetting fools who want Fed funds for Jesus and to let the Government break laws in order to pursue the prosecution of any suspected lawbreaker.

    I don’t want the MUP to go there. It’s not what I want in a presidential candidate. I think Obama was appealing to so many precisely because he wasn’t status quo, and promised he wouldn’t be. He certainly was to me for those reasons.

    Besides, I am certain those ‘center’ types he’s chasing will always find a reason to not support him. After all, Obama is obviously an uppity n*gger who is secretly a muslim and who will take revenge on the white race when he gets in power. Just listen to the people who already gave him a thumbs down, those working, hard-working Americans, white Americans in Appalachia. That’s the ‘center’ he’s after. Fuck that, fuck them, and fuck him for going there.

    Ain’t lockstepping with that. I’ve been against that shit.

  81. 81.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    TZ is sort of the drunk in an otherwise charming bar

    Wow, what an ass you are. Seriously.

    And, I don’t drink, so your little narration is rather inapt.

    By the way, what argument do you think you are having right now, and with whom do you think you are having it?

    But, enough about me, you tell me more what you think about me for a while. Please, take all the time you need.

  82. 82.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    I cant fucking believe there’s people who think this shit is necessary.

    Really, you’re fighting for CONCEALED WEAPONS IN A FUCKING AIRPORT? Are you fucking kidding me?

    Add Georgia to the list (joining IN, MS, and TN minus the JD distillery) of states I wish we would just sell to China. Fucking retards, the lot of ’em.

  83. 83.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    And, I don’t drink, so your little narration is rather inapt.

    Fine, meth addict it is.

  84. 84.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    forgot how to act with love and respect to your fellow man.

    Love and respect for your fellow man on BJ. I’m feeling weepy. Hanky please.

  85. 85.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    You are an offensive human being who despite your intelligence forgot how to act with love and respect to your fellow man.

    Actually, I am a disposable persona who changes handles on a dime. Just one of many things you are wrong about today.

    And love and respect? BWAAAAAAAHAHA, yes, please share with us the blogowner’s response to your complaint, will you? I’d enjoy seeing that.

    As for respect, I have no respect for people who think their pet beefs are more important than taking back the country from sociopathic monsters, who think their judgment about what is more important, in the small slice of time we have to pull that off, than, say, Mister Obama’s judgement is. No respect whatever. Zero. Fuck those people, and that if includes you, then fuck you.

    This is not a homeowner’s association meeting here. This is a political war where outcomes matter. I’ll participate as I see fit.

  86. 86.

    Xenos

    July 1, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    This sort of thing is not part of progressive politics, which is based on strict secular government. And I do fucking bristle because I doubt that Obama will include Muslim-based programs in this initiative.

    We are talking about a general election. What does progressive politics have to do with it? Progressive politics are for lower-level politicians who do not need to appeal to tens of millions of damn fools in order to get elected.

  87. 87.

    Wilfred

    July 1, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    What does progressive politics have to do with it?

    I give up.

  88. 88.

    Dork

    July 1, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Really, you’re fighting for CONCEALED WEAPONS IN A FUCKING AIRPORT? Are you fucking kidding me?

    Just wait until they demand/sue/lobby for teachers to carry guns. Just wait, cuz it’s coming. And so is an unlocked drawer, a teacher who leaves the room in an emergency, followed by a few accidently dead elementary students. Natch. AFAIC, blood on Scalia’s hands.

  89. 89.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    But ya know, I supported the MUP because Obama wasn’t going to the center. The center has been redefined by the goopers.

    Everything else you said is just silly, but this deserves a response.

    Every national election is won in the center. That’s the constant in American politics. How to get the center while approaching from the flanks is the greatest single feat required to win a national election.

    I am going to end up $4600 ($2300 primary, $2300 general) in the hole to the Obama campaign this year, more than all my political contributions put together heretofore, precisely because I respect and trust his judgment about how to pull off this magic act — and that’s what it is, a magic act.

    I have ZERO respect for idiots who sit on blogs and bitch about the play calling. In fact, I have nothing but contempt. Sorry, I don’t mean that personally in your case, but I think you get my drift.

    Winning at this level is about coalition-building, and the most delicate and careful choice of battles. I don’t see one speck of evidence that anyone who posts here knows better than the Obama team how do to that, and until I do, I will heap scorn and derision on the detractors with both hands and the biggest shovel I can find.

  90. 90.

    Dork

    July 1, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    This is a political war where outcomes matter. I’ll participate as I see fit.

    Yeah, but you’re fighting against your own team….

    Sigh.

  91. 91.

    ThymeZone

    July 1, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Love and respect for your fellow man on BJ. I’m feeling weepy. Hanky please.

    The word is verklempt.

    And, use your sleeve like you usually do.

  92. 92.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    We should get “fight club” threads at regular intervals.

  93. 93.

    cleek

    July 1, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    you’re surprised the National Republican Army is out defending the Republican civilian leadership ?

  94. 94.

    Doug H. (Fausto no more)

    July 1, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    you’re surprised the National Republican Army is out defending the Republican civilian leadership ?

    I thought it was the National Riflemakers Association?

  95. 95.

    Tsulagi

    July 1, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    I’ve read in a number of places that some of NRA’s members, being hunters and/or fisherman, are voting Democratic this year purely and soley due to environmental issues.

    That’s true. The majority of NRA members are sane. And they don’t believe everything this admin’s pony tells them…

    Note to George Bush: A Golf Course Pond is NOT Countable as a Wetland

    Field & Stream is now going after the administration. When was the last time someone saw enviro-politics in a hunting and fishing journal.

    Field & Stream’s Bob Marshall writes:

    The Bush Administration announced last week that the nation is no longer losing wetlands–as long as you consider golf course water hazards to be wetlands.

    Really.

    You have to admit, while this admin is populated by assholes, sometimes they do bring a touch of comedy to the table. Counting golf course water hazards as wetlands does take a certain Onion type of mentality.

  96. 96.

    tde

    July 1, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    I am an Obama supporter and contributor and also a member of the NRA – which puts me in a pretty small minority, I guess.

    The NRA has two goals 1) to garner contributions and continue its existence and 2) to work for gun owner’s rights.

    Obama assisted with the first goal when he made the very, very stupid statement that people cling to guns (and religion) because they are bitter. There may some truth to that, but a smart politician just shouldn’t say such politically stupid things.

    What Obama should have done is this: a year or two ago he should have taken some trap shooting lessons and shot a few rounds and then do so every couple of months for the rest of his time as candidate/president. Then he would have at least had some glancing knowledge of guns and shooting. And he could have avoided the stage photo-op that was the Kerry goose hunting trip. I mean, if you are running for president when you are in certain cities in the midwest, you eat kielbasa – even if it turns your stomach, right? There are tens of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Americans who care very much about guns and hunting and ignoring them – or directly insulting them – is just not smart.

  97. 97.

    myiq2xu

    July 1, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    The NRA would endorse Annie Oakley

  98. 98.

    El Cid

    July 1, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Uh oh. The Great Orange Satan has had Dirty F***ing Hippies pour mind control poison into his ears last night.

    …Maybe what looks like [Obama’s] cowering to me is really part of that “moving to the center” stuff everyone keeps talking about. But there is a line between “moving to the center” and stabbing your allies in the back out of fear of being criticized. And, of late, he’s been doing a lot of unecessary stabbing, betraying his claims of being a new kind of politician. Not that I ever bought it, but Obama is now clearly not looking much different than every other Democratic politician who has ever turned his or her back on the base in order to prove centrist bona fides. That’s not an indictment, just an observation.

    Now I know there’s a contingent around here that things Obama can do no wrong, and he must never be criticized, and if you do, well fuck you! I respect the sentiment, but will respectfully disagree. We’re allowed to do that here. But fair notice — I will never pull a Rush Limbaugh and carry water for anyone. Not for the Democratic Congress, and not for our future Democratic president. When anyone does something I don’t care for, I will say so. I’ve never pulled my punches before, so why start now?

  99. 99.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    they do bring a touch of comedy to the table.

    Having your official legal positions compared to farce by Lewis Carroll — priceless.

  100. 100.

    Doug H. (Fausto no more)

    July 1, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    What Obama should have done is this: a year or two ago he should have taken some trap shooting lessons and shot a few rounds and then do so every couple of months for the rest of his time as candidate/president.

    Because nothing says I’m One Of You than an African-American politician from Chicago going out on seasonal trap shooting sprees.

  101. 101.

    Wilfred

    July 1, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Every national election is won in the center. That’s the constant in American politics.

    That’s not true: What center did Bush run towards in 2004?

    Until 1968 the word center didn’t even exist since the fringes of party politics were only becoming defined in 1966 or so. Seems to me national elections are won by energizing enough of the population to vote for you. If you want to call that the center, fine. But it’s a dynamic center, not a static one.

    Sunday I watched Spain beat Germany in the Euro Cup final. Usually a team stops doing everything it did to get to the final and ends up playing, literally, in the center. The Spanish side didn’t play tight – they played to win, and did.

  102. 102.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    There are tens of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Americans who care very much about guns and hunting and ignoring them – or directly insulting them – is just not smart.

    He’s insulting them by not shooting things every couple of months?

    Look, I like babies, but I know better than to make voting decisions based on who has their picture taken holding one.

  103. 103.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    And, use your sleeve like you usually do.

    That’s so, Beaucoup Gauche. I have my liberal standards after all.

  104. 104.

    Gus

    July 1, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Field & Stream’s Bob Marshall writes:

    The Bush Administration announced last week that the nation is no longer losing wetlands—as long as you consider golf course water hazards to be wetlands.

    Really.

    Bob Marshall will be shunned just like the Outdoor Life writer who lost his job for saying that assault rifles have no place in the hunting community.

  105. 105.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    What Obama should have done is this: a year or two ago he should have taken some trap shooting lessons and shot a few rounds

    I’m not sure how John and Jane Oldwhitecracker would respond to the visual of a Scary Negro with a shotgun. I’m sure McCane’s ilk would turn right around and issue a press release whispering that he looked too comfortable with that gun….as if he’d used one before….like in a 7-11 or something.

  106. 106.

    truth machine

    July 1, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I’m wondering about your ‘while we sit and snipe at our candidate’ comment. Some would say our candidate sat and sniped at us first?

    You wonder, and then you do it. Lord you people are cretins. If it’s not Obama, it’s McCain. Grow up and make your choice.

  107. 107.

    El Cid

    July 1, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Hey, Republicans really admired it when John Kerry went duck hunting (or whatever) in his attractive cap. Shouldn’t Obama do something similar?

    Or just wait ’til the inauguration to show up in a black leather jacket, black gloves, black sunglasses, black beret, and a rifle strapped to his shoulder?

  108. 108.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 1, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    …Maybe what looks like [Obama’s] cowering to me is really part of that “moving to the center” stuff everyone keeps talking about. But there is a line between “moving to the center” and stabbing your allies in the back out of fear of being criticized. And, of late, he’s been doing a lot of unecessary stabbing, betraying his claims of being a new kind of politician. Not that I ever bought it, but Obama is now clearly not looking much different than every other Democratic politician who has ever turned his or her back on the base in order to prove centrist bona fides. That’s not an indictment, just an observation.

    Now I know there’s a contingent around here that things Obama can do no wrong, and he must never be criticized, and if you do, well fuck you! I respect the sentiment, but will respectfully disagree. We’re allowed to do that here. But fair notice—I will never pull a Rush Limbaugh and carry water for anyone. Not for the Democratic Congress, and not for our future Democratic president. When anyone does something I don’t care for, I will say so. I’ve never pulled my punches before, so why start now?

    So Kos runs “the base”? Holy Damn, we are some majorly important pixelated motherfuckers now. I remember when we just came together to offer comfort and support to one another after Gore got ripped (ironically, by Nader supporters who decided he wasn’t pure or lefty enough.)

    Now we are the motherfucking tail wagging the dog. Now we are all Naderites.

  109. 109.

    Zifnab

    July 1, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    I have ZERO respect for idiots who sit on blogs and bitch about the play calling. In fact, I have nothing but contempt. Sorry, I don’t mean that personally in your case, but I think you get my drift.

    Winning at this level is about coalition-building, and the most delicate and careful choice of battles. I don’t see one speck of evidence that anyone who posts here knows better than the Obama team how do to that, and until I do, I will heap scorn and derision on the detractors with both hands and the biggest shovel I can find.

    This isn’t baseball, TZ. When FISA gets rammed through the Senate, we don’t get to go “Aw shucks, there’s always next season.”

    So far, Obama has turned over on even a token opposition to civil liberties. He’s backhanded Moveon.Org. He’s backhanded Wesley Clark (perhaps not undeservedly, Clark needs to learn not to step in MSM bear traps). He’s embraced capital punishment and the pro-gun agenda.

    What happens if he flips on Iraq? Maybe getting out isn’t such a good idea, now that his handlers have had time to sit him down and talk it out. What happens when he reconsiders tax cuts for oil companies? I mean, gas prices are so high already… He’s backed off his talk on the Capital Gains tax and tossed around the notion of cutting the corporate tax. Is he pandering to Wall Street? Maybe. Or maybe he was pandering to us. Who knows?

    Winning is only winning if the voters elect a guy who gives them what they want. If Obama ascends the White House steps, takes off his mask, and reveals himself as another George Bush, I don’t see what the point of it all was.

    Simply sticking a (D) in office is meaningless if the (D) is attached to a Bill Nelson or a Steny Hoyer. Sure, the nation might not disintegrate right away like it would with a President McCain. But five or ten years down the line, I don’t see us doing more than just treading water if we don’t elect a legitimate progressive.

    It’s too late now, of course. We’ve picked our nominee. But you’ll have to forgive me if I’m reluctant to go all in on a candidate that – within weeks of taking the nomination – has taken on all the progressive appeal of Newt Gingrich. That’s a pretty big blow to my motivation when I’m stuffing envelopes or pushing house parties or block walking. Obama has really sucked the wind out of my sails. That is something he is free to fix at his leisure.

  110. 110.

    truth machine

    July 1, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Shorter TZ: Either lockstep or we don’t want your vote.

    “We”? It’s you, you stupid passive fuck. If you let McCain get into the White House, it’s your tender asshole the corporate right wing will tear asunder.

  111. 111.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Magical Unity Pony sez:

    Gay marriage in California! I’m for it!

    Liberal blog commentators, go and be placated with this sparkly gay dust!

  112. 112.

    4tehlulz

    July 1, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    >>well fuck you! I respect the sentiment, but will respectfully disagree.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that “fuck you!” and “respectfully disagree” are mutually exclusive.

  113. 113.

    truth machine

    July 1, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    So far, Obama has turned over on even a token opposition to civil liberties. He’s backhanded Moveon.Org. He’s backhanded Wesley Clark (perhaps not undeservedly, Clark needs to learn not to step in MSM bear traps). He’s embraced capital punishment and the pro-gun agenda.

    Obama Obama Obama. Why do you only talk about him and not McCain? Apparently you’re a McCain surrogate.

  114. 114.

    The Moar You Know

    July 1, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    However, such an expenditure of time and energy diverted potential time and energy from support for the Democratic presidential candidate, so I must ask you to cease and desist such distraction, anti-unity loser.

    Sadly, this is all I know how to do. Glad ya liked it.

  115. 115.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    So far, Obama has turned over on even a token opposition to civil liberties. He’s backhanded Moveon.Org. He’s backhanded Wesley Clark (perhaps not undeservedly, Clark needs to learn not to step in MSM bear traps). He’s embraced capital punishment and the pro-gun agenda.

    You say whatever it takes to get elected. Period. Pretty much everything Bush said in 2000 he flipped. Nation building, budget control, etc. And he got elected. Cuz he said the right shit, honesty be dammed.

    Obama is dissing his base in an effort to attract more mods. Why? Becuase he knows his base will vote for him anyways. That’s not betrayal; that’s trying to attract the 20% or so uncommitteed, knowing damn well his base is locked no matter what.

    Sorry, but you cant win if you have all die-hards, but only 49% of them in the nation. You need some late-coming wafflers, and if he’s got to find Jesus and Glock9’s to pick them up, fine.

  116. 116.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    truth machine Says:

    Thanks, TZ’s sock puppet!

    Might be a better idea not to mention your penchant for sockpuppeting in the exact same thread they show up in to defend you.

  117. 117.

    w vincentz

    July 1, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    srv,
    Good guess, but you’re about 1900 years off. Try again.
    The winner gets a Hillary button.

  118. 118.

    liberal

    July 1, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    tde,

    The NRA has two goals 1) to garner contributions and continue its existence and 2) to work for gun owner’s rights.

    From the actual positions and actions taken by the NRA, it would appear that it’s a combined front for the Republican Party and the gun manufacturers.

  119. 119.

    liberal

    July 1, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    tde wrote,

    The NRA has two goals 1) to garner contributions and continue its existence and 2) to work for gun owner’s rights.

    From the actual positions and actions taken by the NRA, it would appear that it’s a combined front for the Republican Party and the gun manufacturers.

  120. 120.

    Z

    July 1, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Silly BJers… TZ isn’t abusing alcohol or meth…
    He huffs outrage.
    I mean normally you think of right-wingers with this kind of addiction, like Malkin, Limbaugh, or O’Reilly. But it is really important to understand that anybody can get addicted to outrage. It can happen in your political neighborhood, too.

  121. 121.

    Z

    July 1, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    jibeaux,

    I need a little disco music and confetti with my sparkly gay dust!

  122. 122.

    flavortext

    July 1, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Wow, TZ is throwing out so many straw men today that I’m beginning to think that it’s actually Ann Coulter in disguise trolling this blog.

    If so, my hat is off to you ma’am. You truly are a master of your craft.

  123. 123.

    Shygetz

    July 1, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    What Obama should have done is this: a year or two ago he should have taken some trap shooting lessons and shot a few rounds and then do so every couple of months for the rest of his time as candidate/president. Then he would have at least had some glancing knowledge of guns and shooting. And he could have avoided the stage photo-op that was the Kerry goose hunting trip. I mean, if you are running for president when you are in certain cities in the midwest, you eat kielbasa – even if it turns your stomach, right? There are tens of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Americans who care very much about guns and hunting and ignoring them – or directly insulting them – is just not smart.

    I like racquetball…if either of the candidates were really serious about getting my vote, they would have spent the time leading up to the primary practicing their racquetball game, and they would get a few games in each week up to the election. There are millions (well, thousands) of peaceful, law-abiding Americans who care very much about racquetball and ignoring them – or directly insulting them – is just not smart.

    Honestly…are we as an electorate that stupid and shallow? I sincerely hope not. I don’t need my President to be able to return a drive serve, and you don’t need your President to be able to take a duck on the wing. We’ve already seen that electing your drinking buddy to President doesn’t work out well, and I have no reason to think that electing your hunting partner (or raquetball second) would work any better.

  124. 124.

    gbear

    July 1, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    jibeaux, can I join TZ and truth machine in wishing you’d get over yourself? As far as I can see, John’s whole point in this posting was to tell folks who write stuff like you’re writing that you’ve got, politely said here, a bag over your head. Get beyond yourself and your issues.

  125. 125.

    Chuck Butcher

    July 1, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    The NRA has become a virtual Republican extension. The odd Democrat can get a good rating from them, but it is rare.

    Democrats managed to drive this piece of politics with things that made no sense to people who understand firearms and read something beyond Brady propaganda. NRA did not oppose background checks in themselves, they opposed delays, non-funded madates, and other nonsense while they supported instant check. What got the NRA going, and that takes the members, was things like banning ugly guns and stuff like the DC ban. Now checking who supported what gives a pretty clear idea of who is mostly going to be opposed. Over any real stretch of time the association between politics and policy gets stronger.

    In general the interests of most of the membership of NRA is poorly served by Republicans, but in the name of stupidity the Democrats drove these people into the arms of the Republicans. Civilian variants of military assault weapons figured in less than 2% of crime so that was worth going to the mat over? Those guns are ugly versions of the function of a huge number of firearms – they are self-loading one trigger squeeze one shot arms. By function a double action revolver is a semi-auto that holds 6. The idea that banning handguns would do more than take them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens was ludicrous on its face considering their illegal availability. These owners understand this and object – strongly. They don’t see the 2nd as less important than the 1st or 4th or pick one. You shouldn’t either.

    Demonstrably stupid policy generates real opposition and if a Party manages to be identified with it they suffer. Which one of us doesn’t identify Republicans with stupid tax policy, stupid war policy, stupid, stupid? Don’t we attempt to get voters to see it our way?

    There are good reasons to oppose felons, mentally disabled, etc from owning guns, then the problems start – the mere accusation of domestic violence results in being banned, not the proof of it. Ugly divorce procedings can result in false accusations being treated in effect as fact. In the face of crime figures and function CA banned “assault rifles,” and Congress went in a similar direction. There may be an emotional satisfaction in doing it and a noisy minority of a Party might approve but there is a distinct political cost. The hijacking of the Republican Party by the religious right has involved a cost – ask John Cole.

    Even if the Democrats lined up solidly with strong 2nd stances it would take quite awhile to root out the now established Republican leadership in NRA. It would happen, but how likely are the conditions?

    People want something done about firearm violence, I do, but the trick is to use the law sensibly and the ENFORCE it. There are a boatload of firearm crime enhanced laws out there, they don’t get prosecuted, the underlying crime gets pleaded out. Gun owners know what is going on and they’re offended. Fix that and see their votes.

    (yes I know the NRA, I’ve read American Rifleman since I was a child – long ago – and I’ve watched the changes – unhappily)

  126. 126.

    tde

    July 1, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    “He’s insulting them by not shooting things every couple of months?”

    No, the insult was the whole “clinging to guns because they are bitter” thing. Just a very, very stupid thing for a politician to say.

    He might as well get up on a soapbox and say “half of all Americans” are less intelligent than average. It may be true but you just never say dumb shit like that.

  127. 127.

    nightjar

    July 1, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    So Kos runs “the base”?

    Kos runs his little empire and prevaricates which ever way he suspects the wind is blowing over his kingdom at any given point in time. This is silly season and all the players first manage their own turf and then address the big picture.

    I hear the pearl clutching over at Kos is epic and the leader must show his consternation to soothe damaged egos and show his outrage for the masses to see. Then to go on supporting the only democrat in the race. He knows his followers will vote for Obama in the end, so long as their frustrations along the way have a means to ventilate the excess angst. I think Kos is pragmatic enough to also understand what Obama is doing to win the election, IMHO.

    It’s highly serious business and also highly comedic if you think about it.

  128. 128.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    jibeaux, can I join TZ and truth machine in wishing you’d get over yourself? As far as I can see, John’s whole point in this posting was to tell folks who write stuff like you’re writing that you’ve got, politely said here, a bag over your head. Get beyond yourself and your issues.

    You certainly can join TZ and Sock Puppet TZ if you like, but he was actually addressing a whole bunch of people before I jumped in to play. People are far more outraged than I am about Obama’s pandering, and pretty much the only substantive thing I said on any of the issues previously raised was that I diverge from liberal orthodoxy in thinking the faith-based initiatives he’s supporting are o.k. I also pointed out he came down pro-gay-marriage. I sure hope Obama recovers from these blows, whew!

    My point to TZ was that there isn’t anything wrong with supporting a candidate and offering valid criticism as well, which I consider to be fairly self-evident as well as not being very demonstrative of “a bag over my head”.

    If you re-read all my comments, not that I would suggest such a colossal waste of time, but anyway, I think you would find I’m right, as well as an excellent youtube link and a halfway decent WaPo article that are also not critical of Obama.

  129. 129.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    No, the insult was the whole “clinging to guns because they are bitter” thing. Just a very, very stupid thing for a politician to say.

    All part of the spectator sport. All politicians make gaffes, and in the modern era when everything you say and do is video and audio-taped, their circulation is unavoidable. As gaffes go, this was both minor, and very April 2008.

    What else ya got?

  130. 130.

    Tsulagi

    July 1, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    (yes I know the NRA, I’ve read American Rifleman since I was a child – long ago – and I’ve watched the changes – unhappily)

    Me too. And unlike Mitty’s shiny new one, my life membership card is well worn.

  131. 131.

    Brian

    July 1, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    “shunning Muslim voters are more of a disappointment to me.”

    How has he shunned Muslim voters? He may not have engaged them as much as some might like, but that doesn’t man he’s purposely ignored them. And don’t even mention those two women who were asked to move at a rally. He didn’t have anything to do with that.

  132. 132.

    Zifnab

    July 1, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    You say whatever it takes to get elected. Period. Pretty much everything Bush said in 2000 he flipped. Nation building, budget control, etc. And he got elected. Cuz he said the right shit, honesty be dammed.

    Obama is dissing his base in an effort to attract more mods. Why? Becuase he knows his base will vote for him anyways. That’s not betrayal; that’s trying to attract the 20% or so uncommitteed, knowing damn well his base is locked no matter what.

    Hey, maybe Obama has been absolutely lying-through-his-teeth full of shit for the last couple weeks. It’s certainly feasible that he’s just pandering to the mole people at the center of the political spectrum. I’m willing to concede that the possibility exists.

    Still, like every other political junkie, I take everything I hear that I like from a candidate with a healthy grain of salt and everything I hear that I don’t like as the god’s honest truth. And when my candidate talks out of both sides of his mouth – yapping up about corporate tax cuts to Wall Street and rolling back the Bush Tax cuts to his base – I’ve been here before, and I’m reluctant to trust him. I know what pull Wall Street has traditionally had. I know what pull the DFHs have traditionally had. And he’s promising the same piece of pie to both of us. And the last time this happened, I didn’t get any.

    So I am forced to be incredibly skeptical because I’ve been burned oh-so-many times before.

  133. 133.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    can I join TZ

    P.S. Chiming in with TZ is also generally either a symptom of being a sock puppet or mentally unstable. But if you need to verify my gender, he’s already done that, so check with him.

  134. 134.

    jibeaux

    July 1, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    “shunning Muslim voters are more of a disappointment to me.”

    e.g.

  135. 135.

    Punchy

    July 1, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    So I am forced to be incredibly skeptical because I’ve been burned oh-so-many times before.

    But that’s my point. He doesn’t care that you’re skeptical, cuz he knows you’ll vote for him anyways. But in the meantime, he’s trying to appeal to peeps who may be more conservative. It’s all about half-truths, flipping around, speaking out of both sides, yada yada, until November 4. THEN he’d better step up and take a more progressive approach. If he maintains this “centrist” approach after the election, he deserves all this scorn.

  136. 136.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    July 1, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    My initial thought was, this is the greatest thing the internets have ever produced.

    Oh, please. THIS is the greatest intertubes. Contribution. Evah.

    Did someone say something about the NRA?

  137. 137.

    tde

    July 1, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    “All part of the spectator sport. All politicians make gaffes, and in the modern era when everything you say and do is video and audio-taped, their circulation is unavoidable. As gaffes go, this was both minor, and very April 2008.

    What else ya got?”

    jibeaux – why don’t you go back and read my posts before you favor me with your wit?

  138. 138.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    July 1, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    But there was no excuse for Obama to opt out of public financing to avoid spending limits, because it’s not like external groups will mount ad campaigns against him.

  139. 139.

    Dave_Violence

    July 1, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Proud NRA Life Member here…

    1. The Democratic party is anti-gun, no matter what the Constitution says.

    2. Barack Obama is anti-gun. Do the math.

    3. The NRA is PRIMARILY *the* civil rights organization devoted to he right of Americans to keep and bear arms – not to mention the right to defends oneself and property through lawful force.

    4. The NRA does go off on tangents, the worst I remember was a letter from Wayne LaPierre where he says some disparaging words about Beavis and Butthead. As in “NRA members don’t sit around watching Beavis and Butthead.” Since that was one of my prime activities, I was upset. Similar to when Bob Dole made a disparaging remark about the band Cannibal Corpse, regardless of how right he was. But I digress. Yeah, there are plenty of stiff shirts in the NRA, Nugent’s not one of them, neither are Tom Selleck nor Karl Malone. Nor Roy Ennis.

    Make of that what you will, but the Dems are all about taking away all sorts of rights, more so than the Republicans and that’s that. The game’s got a price, volk.

  140. 140.

    Chuck Butcher

    July 1, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    the Dems are all about taking away all sorts of rights, more so than the Republicans

    Oh horseshit. Don’t use me as your hobby horse Bucko, I’m the Democratic Party of Oregon Gun Owners Caucus Vice-chair and DPO’s statement on the 2nd trumps the Republijunk ones on clearness, individual right, and guarantee.

  141. 141.

    theo

    July 1, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    The game’s got a price, volk.

    …and as the Louisiana Republican Matt Taibbi interviewed put it, “You’re either volk or you ain’t.”

  142. 142.

    theo

    July 1, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    If you shut down all Internet access in Silicon Valley, stole the tires from every private car in LA, and confiscated every bowling ball in the Upper Midwest…

    the disturbance in the Force would be one thousandth what you’d get if you took one POS 9mm away from the NRA base.

    Say all you want about individual rights and whatever, but a lot of Americans have a real dependency disorder towards their weapons, which I don’t think I will ever understand. “Clinging” — there’s a real understatement.

  143. 143.

    MLE

    July 1, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    $40M would pay for an awful lot of gun safety training and courses, if the NRA actually cared.

  144. 144.

    Glocksman

    July 2, 2008 at 2:12 am

    Add Georgia to the list (joining IN, MS, and TN minus the JD distillery) of states I wish we would just sell to China. Fucking retards, the lot of ‘em.

    So this Hoosier who supports Obama despite my misgivings WRT guns can just be sold to China?

    Fuck you, buddy.
    In my weaker moments, it’s shit such as this that make me wonder if I’ve thrown in my lot with people who despise me.

    Then I remember GWB wiping his ass with the Bill of Rights and realize that Obama is still better than McSame.

    But hey, if you really feel that Obama needs to stay ‘pure’, then sit at home on election night and watch once ‘contestable’ states ensure that J. Sidney McCain III is the one taking the oath of office on January 20, 2009.

  145. 145.

    Glocksman

    July 2, 2008 at 2:16 am

    Having said the above, the ‘pry my cold dead hands from around the hot smoking barrel’ bit still applies.
    I would have figured the Democrats would have learned the lesson from 2000, where Gore’s literal embrace of Sarah Brady cost them his home state, and hence the election.

    But I apparently was wrong.

  146. 146.

    Chuck Butcher

    July 2, 2008 at 2:35 am

    Glocksman
    Gun banners within the Democratic Party aren’t a majority but they are noisier. Guess which wheel gets grease. Make a difference, join your county party.

  147. 147.

    Paul L.

    July 2, 2008 at 9:36 am

    The NRA really should have to register as an arm of the GOP

    Does the same go for the ACLU and Democrats?

    The ACLU interprets the Second Amendment as a collective right. Therefore, we disagree with the Supreme Court’s decision in D.C. v. Heller.

    And three of the four supreme court justices who sided against Heller were appointed by Democrats and Obama says he wants future Justices just like them.

    Obama has also praised current Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David H. Souter. “I want people on the bench who have enough empathy, enough feeling, for what ordinary people are going through,” Obama said.

  148. 148.

    binzinerator

    July 2, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    But ya know, I supported the MUP because Obama wasn’t going to the center. The center has been redefined by the goopers.

    Everything else you said is just silly, but this deserves a response.

    Most of what I say is often silly. Besides, I’m here for the jackassery, mostly. But pointing out that going postal can reduce your effectiveness in making your point wasn’t silly. And most of everything else I said followed from the center being redefined by the goopers, that the center really isn’t the center anymore. Which wasn’t silly either.

    Every national election is won in the center.

    So I’ve heard, but that election-determining sweet spot is now in reality left of what is called center. Most of america wants to move away from the place the Bushies have made their own — the so-called center.

    I am going to end up $4600 ($2300 primary, $2300 general) in the hole to the Obama campaign…

    I congratulate you. I gave what I could afford to his campaign too. But what was your point in mentioning that?

    I have ZERO respect for idiots who sit on blogs and bitch about the play calling.

    Isn’t that what you’ve been doing here for months? Sitting on this blog and bitching? Isn’t that what you come here to do? That’s what I come here for. As I said, I’m here for the jackassery.

    Sorry, I don’t mean that personally in your case, but I think you get my drift.

    Not taken personally. I think I get your drift. You are referring to contemptible idiots who hang out on blogs and bitch about the way some people do things, like me, but only in the general, abstract sense, so it’s not really me personally. I don’t mean this personally, but you came off looking pretty damn silly as you did exactly the contemptible zero-respect idiotic kind of thing you ranted about.

    I don’t see one speck of evidence that anyone who posts here knows better than the Obama team how do to that, and until I do, I will heap scorn and derision on the detractors with both hands and the biggest shovel I can find.

    I don’t see any evidence that you know better either. I’m serious, what evidence do you have that you know better — and not just the Obama campaign, but even about most of the stuff we rant about here at BJ? Same as me. I got jack, and you got jack.

    I may have what I think is better, and some reasons why. Probably you do too. But evidence? I supposed I’d have to be running or advising Obama’s campaign to put it to the test to produce that evidence.

    You build any coalitions lately, getting hard data to back up your position? Nope? Hey me too!

    As for the scorn, heap away. When I’ve said shit that saps my own argument it has rarely stopped me from slinging scorn and derision. I won’t hold it against you for doing the same.

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