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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2008 / Yeah, Well, You Know OBAMA FLIP FLOPPED ON IRAQ

Yeah, Well, You Know OBAMA FLIP FLOPPED ON IRAQ

by John Cole|  July 4, 20088:26 am| 51 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, Media, Mainstream Media's McCain Mancrush

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Krugman:

Al Gore never claimed that he invented the Internet. Howard Dean didn’t scream. Hillary Clinton didn’t say she was staying in the race because Barack Obama might be assassinated. And Wesley Clark didn’t impugn John McCain’s military service.

Scott McClellan, the former White House press secretary, titled his tell-all memoir “What Happened.” But a true account of modern American politics should be titled “What Didn’t Happen.” Again and again we’ve had media firestorms over supposedly revealing incidents that never actually took place.

***

“Two days into the Wesley Clark fallout,” wrote the Columbia Journalism Review on Tuesday morning, “the press, the G.O.P., and the Obama campaign all seem to have agreed that Clark’s recent remarks on John McCain’s service record were at best impolitic and at worst despicable.”

Since then, however, both the press and the Obama campaign seem to have recovered some of their balance. Opinion pieces have started to appear pointing out that General Clark didn’t say what he’s accused of saying. Mr. Obama has also declared that General Clark doesn’t owe Mr. McCain an apology for his “inartful” remarks and denies that his own condemnation, in a speech given on Monday, of those who “devalue” military service was aimed at the general.

In the end, the Clark affair may have strengthened the Obama campaign. Last week, with his cave-in on wiretapping, Mr. Obama was showing disturbing signs of falling into the usual Democratic cringe on national security. This may have been the week he rediscovered the virtues of standing tall.

Furthermore, my sense, though it’s hard to prove, is that the press is feeling a bit ashamed about the way it piled on General Clark. If so, news organizations may think twice before buying into the next fake scandal.

Fat chance.

Is McCain hosting a bbq today?

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Reader Interactions

51Comments

  1. 1.

    Svensker

    July 4, 2008 at 8:33 am

    Why did you have to link to something that has Charles They Call Me Dr. Strangelove” Krauthammer at the top? I mean, really, on this day, to think of Dr. Chuck and patriotism in the same think… Ugh. No wonder it’s raining.

  2. 2.

    Ranger3

    July 4, 2008 at 8:33 am

    John Cole at 7:19 AM

    You all suck. I think I am done blogging for the day. I have nothing but contempt for you all.

    Yet at 8:26 AM he blogs again.

    Flip-flopper.

  3. 3.

    Svensker

    July 4, 2008 at 8:36 am

    Yeah, and furthermore, how ’bout for the 4th you declare independence from Word Press, huh?

  4. 4.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 4, 2008 at 8:39 am

    It’s pretty obvious that the press, out of love for their otherwise hapless maverick, aren’t hyping this stuff to save his candidacy. Obama is playing in a game where the refs have been bought off.

  5. 5.

    mikeysez

    July 4, 2008 at 8:50 am

    The truthiness of these nontroversies must be maintained, else the curtain will be pulled far enough for all to see.

    The Great and Powerful Oz is aware of all internet traditions.

  6. 6.

    El Cid

    July 4, 2008 at 9:24 am

    Gosh, I bet the big time journalists and pundits are lining up for McCain’s famous dry rubs(?).

  7. 7.

    TR

    July 4, 2008 at 9:27 am

    When the Associated Press delivers McCain’s donuts today, they better bring the ones with the red-white-and-blue sprinkles.

  8. 8.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 4, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Howard Dean did in fact scream. Whether or not it merited the coverage that may have killed his chances is what needs to be examined.

  9. 9.

    pinola

    July 4, 2008 at 9:31 am

    Okay, now I’m confused. I thought you were contemptually done with us for the rest of the day.

  10. 10.

    cleek

    July 4, 2008 at 9:34 am

    ow ‘bout for the 4th you declare independence from Word Press, huh?

    as you can tell by the fact that you still get the WP error message when the site crashes, and often get pages full of sql errors, the problem is more likely with the database.

  11. 11.

    pinola

    July 4, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Just Some Fuckhead: agreed.

    Wow, he was one crazy fucker back then, wasn’t he? Wanting to get out of Iraq n’ stuff. Passionately endorsed by Al Gore for his anti-war position.

    What a loser.

  12. 12.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 4, 2008 at 9:50 am

    The new spin is that McCain, having changed his position on issues at least four dozen times, is soberly and maturely reacting to new information. Obama is still a flip-flopper.

  13. 13.

    tballou

    July 4, 2008 at 9:58 am

    John – you want to know why FISA is so important to us (us being all Americans)? Go read someone who knows a little about being an American:

  14. 14.

    John Cole

    July 4, 2008 at 10:01 am

    John – you want to know why FISA is so important to us (us being all Americans)? Go read someone who knows a little about being an American:

    I am so tired of this wankery, most of all because it assumes I support the current FISA bill. I don’t. But I can tell when an issue is over and done, and I am not willing to fucking deal with four more years of Bush so you all can vainly fight a losing battle. And I posted this comment in another thread, but I will repost it here:

    Let me give you another example. Imagine the United States is morbidly obese patient with a large number of physical ailments:

    he has diabetes (Iraq war)
    his blood pressure is high (the economy)
    his cholesterol is through the roof (Justice department and torture)
    his pulse is way too high (budget and tax cuts)
    his triglycerides are through the roof (FISA)
    He is 700 pounds overweight (Republican President)

    Now, we all know that if he would just lose some weight, all of those other things would get better. Most sane, rational, human beings, while concerned about the other issues, would try to focus on the obesity.

    Not, however, Democrats. Instead of treating the obesity, a Democratic doctor’s prescription for this patient is to address the triglyceride issue and ignore the other ailments. Take care of those triglycerides, and the patient will get better, the good doctor says.

    So, the poor fat bastard takes the advice of the doctor. Rather than doing all the things he can do to lower his weight, he sacrifices everything to get his triglycerides down.

    And promptly dies in November.

  15. 15.

    Bey

    July 4, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Speaking of dead: Jesse Helms is.

  16. 16.

    tballou

    July 4, 2008 at 10:09 am

    John – your overall diagnosis and recommended treatment of our ailing patient is correct, but changing President is like prescribing a placebo! Have we learned nothing in 7 long years if we have not learned that the President, any President, is not to be trusted? Power corrupts, and the Executive branch needs accountability and oversight by its worst enemies to prevent the crap we have been dealing with.

    And by the way, this FISA shit is not a done deal just yet, so lets not all lie down and let the bastards have their way with us.

  17. 17.

    grandpajohn

    July 4, 2008 at 10:13 am

    well there is a way to stop this constant stream of bullshit from the media, drive the fuckers bankrupt. Now I realize the going cold turkey on incessant watching news? shows or reading of papers would also drive some of you nuts also, But if everyone would do as I have done , stop buying newspapersor supporting the TV crowd with your viewership causing those most important Nielsen numbers to go down thus cutting their ad income and drive the fuckers bankrupt and you can bet you will see a change in the way news is addressed by these bottom line bastards

  18. 18.

    D. Mason

    July 4, 2008 at 10:14 am

    Howard Dean did in fact scream. Whether or not it merited the coverage that may have killed his chances is what needs to be examined.

    You must have not seen the un-doctored footage. Having seen the footage without the fox news audio remix – I would call it an exclamation that fell well short of scream.

  19. 19.

    Geeno

    July 4, 2008 at 10:18 am

    It was more of a “WOOT!” than a scream. The doctored footage was just silly.

  20. 20.

    D. Mason

    July 4, 2008 at 10:20 am

    And promptly dies in November.

    Your analogy is only accurate if the “diet” given by the doc is loaded to the brim with triglycerides, to the point that the diet might not be as beneficial as one might expect. Maybe the doc even thinks that triglycerides are ok as long as they’re coming from your new diet instead of the old one.

  21. 21.

    TCG

    July 4, 2008 at 10:43 am

    There is alotta whining going on about Obama.

    Andy Borowitz put it about right the other day (paraphrasing):

    “Obama attempts to win the Presidency. Netroots Outraged!”

    Go blow something up and relax. Its the 4th of July after all.

  22. 22.

    TR

    July 4, 2008 at 10:44 am

    well there is a way to stop this constant stream of bullshit from the media, drive the fuckers bankrupt.

    Write their advertisers and tell them you’ll stop buying their products as long as they advertise on that station or show.

    You want to get a junkie’s attention, cut off his supply.

  23. 23.

    Glenn Reynolds

    July 4, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Liberal media, liberal media, lalala, can’t hear you!

  24. 24.

    Andrew

    July 4, 2008 at 10:50 am

    re: Jesse Helms
    Speaking as an inhabitant of the North Carolina “zoo”: I hope your god turns out to be an angry black latino lesbian.

  25. 25.

    gbear

    July 4, 2008 at 10:56 am

    May he rest in karma.

  26. 26.

    Tony J

    July 4, 2008 at 10:59 am

    There is alotta whining going on about Obama.

    Andy Borowitz put it about right the other day (paraphrasing):

    Obama attempts to win the Presidency. Netroots Outraged!

    Yeah, that’s one fucking hilarious strawman you got there, mister. My sides, they ache.

  27. 27.

    TR

    July 4, 2008 at 11:00 am

    I can only hope there’s some sort of affirmative action program in Heaven, and he loses his spot there because they had to give it to a minority.

  28. 28.

    The Other Steve

    July 4, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Speaking of dead: Jesse Helms is.

    Who?

  29. 29.

    Joshua Norton

    July 4, 2008 at 11:13 am

    McCain’s famous dry rubs(?).

    Is it just me, or does that sound downright painful.

  30. 30.

    GSD

    July 4, 2008 at 11:31 am

    The media has just shown up to offer some help for the terminal patient.

    They have a box of donuts and some fatty beef flanks ready for a rub.

    -GSD

  31. 31.

    El Cid

    July 4, 2008 at 11:31 am

    TR Says:

    I can only hope there’s some sort of affirmative action program in Heaven, and he loses his spot there because they had to give it to a minority.

    That comment is so awesome I may have to build a shrine to it in the back yard. Repeat this everywhere.

  32. 32.

    Dave_Violence

    July 4, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Howard Dean made a weird noise, “scream” “yell” take your pick. He did something “odd” and thus it allowed his political competitors a chance for exploitation. These odd sorts need apologists like Krugman to “explain” for us that what we saw really wasn’t what we saw… Feh. I’m writing-in Allen Keyes, I think, this year.

  33. 33.

    D. Mason

    July 4, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    He did something “odd” and thus it allowed his political competitors a chance for exploitation.

    That’s my point entirely. He didn’t do something odd, he did something commonplace which his opponents then doctored into something seemingly odd. There is a big difference. Perhaps nuance is not your thing.

  34. 34.

    Tsulagi

    July 4, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Howard Dean did in fact scream. Whether or not it merited the coverage that may have killed his chances is what needs to be examined.

    You must have not seen the un-doctored footage.

    Saw unedited footage from a Dean supporter’s camera, it was a scream. Or at least a yell. But in the full context of the rally, and what was seen on the floor from the crowd, not out of place.

    The hyperventilating and extended coverage about it cracked me up though. Loved the remixes. When I played football in school, if I got a solo sack during a game, more than once let out a scream/yell that sounded pretty similar. Also sometimes a fist pump. So did the other guys. So combined, guess we were a crazy Dem terrorist cell.

  35. 35.

    Dave_Violence

    July 4, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    . He didn’t do something odd, he did something commonplace which his opponents then doctored into something seemingly odd. There is a big difference. Perhaps nuance is not your thing.

    Bullshit. IT may be commonplace for a 12-year old to get up on stage and let out a yell, or maybe someone who’s drunk or a football player after crushing the other team – but a presidential candidate after “hollering” at the top of his lungs rattling off a list of states he’s going to “take.” No way, unless I get an apology for punishment I received in various forms for “acting-out” during my formative years. Asshole.

  36. 36.

    Tsulagi

    July 4, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Not, however, Democrats. Instead of treating the obesity, a Democratic doctor’s prescription for this patient is to address the triglyceride issue

    I’m sure not a Democrat. Not a doctor either. The problem for me with Obama’s gutless capitulation on FISA is not just that issue alone. But what you could expect from him as president on other issues as well.

    Believe sometime ago I commented on this blog transcendy speeches aside, Obama didn’t do much for me. He’s got the golden talk and public charisma, believe I said I’d give my left nut to buy just half of it and think he’s a decent guy, but I don’t trust him to pull the trigger when it counts. He seems like the guy who’s great on the range or in practice, but when the game starts with live contact, not so much. He’s a “serious adult” waiting to bloom. His FISA action is just another data point supporting that assessment. For me.

    If I were to use your fat guy example, fat guy is telling his concerned family that while it might not appear he’s properly addressing his triglycerides/FISA problem by downing a bucket of chocolate fudge, he’s actually standing tall addressing “grave threats” solved by downing the fudge. He’ll carefully monitor the issue when he gets that job promotion.

    You kinda wonder if he just might slip with future buckets of fudge on other issues.

  37. 37.

    D. Mason

    July 4, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Bullshit

    So you’re saying the footage wasn’t doctored?

  38. 38.

    vishnu schizt

    July 4, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Bullshit. IT may be commonplace for a 12-year old to get up on stage and let out a yell, or maybe someone who’s drunk or a football player after crushing the other team – but a presidential candidate after “hollering” at the top of his lungs rattling off a list of states he’s going to “take.” No way, unless I get an apology for punishment I received in various forms for “acting-out” during my formative years. Asshole.

    You should consult your parents about that. Apparently you had one shithole of a childhood. I suggest counselling, and acting out now. Living in chains ain’t no way to live brother.

  39. 39.

    Ninerdave

    July 4, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    The Dean scream? Seriously? You guys must be bored.

  40. 40.

    CT

    July 4, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Major media in this country is so full of crap. To anyone who’s paid attention to this campaign, Obama has simply stated what has always been his position-starting to withdraw upon taking office, 1-2 combat brigades/month, with due caution. Hacks (say, Anderson Cooper) who’ve been following the campaign intensely for over a year suddenly develop amnesia and act like a policy shift has occurred because the resulting concerned chin-stroking fills space between commercials.

    I’m with Jon Stewart-cable news is hurting the country, simply because they do not have the option of opening the “Situation Room” with Wolf saying, “Nothing of any significance happened today, see you tomorrow.”

  41. 41.

    Ken

    July 4, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Oh God. Let it go. It was a stupid thing for Clark to say and why should Obama have to defend him.

    Clark isn’t running. And if he were, he would get his ass kicked.

    So why should you, or Obama waste your time on this crap.

    Obama will have a ton of issues to deal with. And you want to hammer him on this.

    Grow the fuck up.

  42. 42.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 4, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    The problem for me with Obama’s gutless capitulation on FISA is not just that issue alone.

    Prolly a dead thread by now but I wanted to point out that it is EXACTLY this sort of shit that costs us so dearly on the Democratic side. It can’t simply be as Obama said, he didn’t feel telecom immunity was enough in and of itself to kill an otherwise decent bill (which could be argued also.) Instead, we have to portray him in the worst possible way, employing Republican frames that play into their Democratic sterotypes. There is no evidence AT ALL that Obama was in any way acting in a gutless manner. There is no evidence at all of capitulation. This is just bad faith editorializing at the expense of a general election. Thanks asshat. Of course, John started it all with his post entitled “Weak”, again with no evidence of actual weakness, just our own bad faith assertions about someone else’s motivations.

  43. 43.

    Tsulagi

    July 5, 2008 at 9:51 am

    It can’t simply be as Obama said, he didn’t feel telecom immunity was enough in and of itself to kill an otherwise decent bill (which could be argued also.)

    Keith Olbermann is that you? Or just some fuckhead? Apparently pretty much the same on this issue and assessment of Obama’s actions.

    Yeah, this thread is dead, so not going to waste anymore time on it. But I’ll copy and paste below a long comment I made two days ago.

    Could have labeled it “IT’S NOT JUST THE IMMUNITY, STUPID!” Could have bolded that, flashing lights, whatever, and still no doubt pony seekers like you would gloss over saying “But, but, but, Obama said he didn’t really like the immunity thingy.” No matter how you want to spin it and look for the pony, Obama’s action has been a gutless capitulation.

    ______________________________________________
    Greenwald has it exactly right, the 1978 FISA legislation never expired. The majority Dems and their standard bearer are seeking to change existing FISA to conform with the admin’s NSA warrantless wiretapping program.

    This is a program when it first came to light scared the shit out of the “Bring ‘Em On” horse-fearing cowboy president. Like a spoiled brat who had been caught, at a press conference soon after Bush said it was treasonous to even talk about this program. Even used the treason word.

    This is a program that AG AG was asked why hadn’t the admin gone to Congress for enabling legislation. AG said that was considered first, but they didn’t think they could get it through Congress. Savor that. That would be a Republican controlled Congress in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, and they didn’t think their own freedom fries guys would go for it. Must be one hell of a program in its implementation.

    This is a program that noted civil liberties champion John Ashcroft refused to re-certify even when pushed to do so on his hospital bed. The same John Ashcroft who had DOJ lawyers prepare for an opportune moment Patriot Act II with a swell provision that could have made your citizenship null and void if he or The Decider decided. But the NSA program went too far for this guy.

    But apparently not for the Dems. The anti-rubberstamper Bush rubberstampers. What the Republicans didn’t try to get through during their six years of control, the “change-agents” are now taking up the cause.

    And their standard bearer? Spin it anyway you want (brilliant secret plan is my fave), Obama is either engaging in a gutless capitulation perceived to be in his self interest, or he believes it’s important to continue the Bush legacy of the unitary executive for the benefit of the country. Gotta love that change you can believe in thingy.

    You would think continually getting outsmarted and out-maneuvered by Bush and his merry band of sub-28%ers would be embarrassing. Outsmarted by Bush, really, that takes some doing. But no, you have Hoyer proclaiming victory in this latest capitulation, and really smart people like Olbermann pontificating it’s likely some “sublime” plan Obama helped create that the Republicans haven’t yet figured out. Amazing.

  44. 44.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 5, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Tsulagi, Glenn didn’t actually prove “gutless capitulation” so your quoting him didn’t either. We’re looking at the exact same event and characterizing it differently. You are looking for the worst possible framing in an effort to fully express the pain and betrayal you feel. I’m just rationally taking the man at his word since I don’t have any reason not to.

    Seems pretty simple to me if you check your emotional baggage at the door.

  45. 45.

    Tsulagi

    July 5, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Fuckhead, no way said Glenn proved gutless capitulation. Only that he pointed out the obvious, FISA still exists, and doesn’t need fixing. Maybe you think FISA needs to conform to Bush’s, and apparently now Obama’s, unitary executive view, I don’t. Neither did Obama a Friedman Unit ago.

    Seems pretty simple to me if you check your emotional baggage at the door. Really, it’s okay not to believe rainbows come out of Obama’s mouth and he craps yummy tasty gummi bears and ponys.

  46. 46.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 5, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Fuckhead, no way said Glenn proved gutless capitulation. Only that he pointed out the obvious, FISA still exists, and doesn’t need fixing. Maybe you think FISA needs to conform to Bush’s, and apparently now Obama’s, unitary executive view, I don’t. Neither did Obama a Friedman Unit ago.

    We weren’t arguing over the relative merits of the new FISA bill. We were specifically addressing your use of the phrase “gutless capitulation”. So any response from you should have made a case for your inflammatory rhetoric and use of rightwing frames. I don’t actually need a primer from you or Glenn on the proposed FISA changes and your efforts to besmirch my own fine character because I object to your seriously unhelpful rhetoric really reeks of immaturity.

    Really, it’s okay not to believe rainbows come out of Obama’s mouth and he craps yummy tasty gummi bears and ponys.

    And it’s okay for you to not get your panties in a wad and carry on like a vindictive little bitch when something doesn’t go your way.

  47. 47.

    Tsulagi

    July 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    We weren’t arguing over the relative merits of the new FISA bill.

    Um, wasn’t this in a previous comment…

    …to kill an otherwise decent bill (which could be argued also.)

    “Decent bill?” LOL. Hadn’t heard even his most obsessive fanboyz call it a decent bill. Thanks for the laugh.

    We were specifically addressing your use of the phrase “gutless capitulation”.

    Sure, if that’s where you really want to go now. Let’s take a look at some of the withering fire causing Obama to reverse his position…

    Up against a lame duck president almost 80% of the public can’t stand, including now a fair number of Republicans.
    80% of the public think the country has been and is moving in the wrong direction.
    His party has numerical superiority in Congress. Yeah, I know that’s mitigated by Dem propensity to cave so you don’t have to point that out
    No big “save warrantless wiretapping and love your phone companys’ profits” voting block.
    He’s ahead in the national polls.
    He’s better funded than the other presidential candidate.
    The way the other prez candidate is going, by November he may not even remember what he’s running for.

    Yeah, I can see now why he and the Dems would drop their weapons and run. Must be a flag lapel pin medal in his immediate future from Bush to honor Obama’s action under such fire. Or maybe it’s a secret plan. Yeah, that’s it.

  48. 48.

    nightjar

    July 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Yeah, I can see now why he and the Dems would drop their weapons and run. Must be a flag lapel pin medal in his immediate future from Bush to honor Obama’s action under such fire. Or maybe it’s a secret plan. Yeah, that’s it.

    Then vote for McCain dumbass, or don’t vote at all. Nobody cares what you do.

  49. 49.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 5, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Tsulagi,

    I’m not interested in playing the outrage game with you, Corner Stone and D. Mason (sorry if I missed any of the hysterical outrage trolls.) I’ve got better things to do than babysit you whinyass bitches. But you should know your unhelpful hysterics aren’t moving the ball either way on the field. You are more like the streaker who jumps the barricades and dashes around the field naked until he is forcibly removed. But that motherfucker is proud he was able to show his ass and monopolize attention on himself for a few short minutes. You should be just as proud.

  50. 50.

    flyerhawk

    July 6, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Great work, Fuckhead. I completely agree.

    What bugs me the most about the whole FISA dustup is that it isn’t even about changing the bill. Virtually every outrage troll knows that even if Congress removed all the bad things in this bill, whatever they may be, the President would simply veto the bill. And since Congress is nowhere near unified on this, the FISA bill would die a painful death. Not only that but the GOP would have a field day showing that Obama is weak politically(he couldn’t get the bill passed and signed) and weak on security(he’ll let the terrorists come over to your house and steal your daughters).

    So their outrage isn’t about achieving some objective. It’s about Obama proving his Liberal bonafides by fighting a pointless fight.

  51. 51.

    Tsulagi

    July 6, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    You should be just as proud.

    As should you, Fuckhead. The candidate opens a big ‘ol can of WimpAss scarfing it down for courage to aid in Gitmoing the 4th Amendment. Some acolytes? They scurry to get their own little cans of WimpAss down quickly so they can squeeze into their plus size Michelle Malkin cheerleading outfits to swing into action. Create a formidable chorus line. Pro-tip: No amount of lipstick or rouge to accentuate the man cleavage, nor how falsetto you can make the voices makes it attractive. Nor believable.

    Yeah, I got things to do too. You have a great day.

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