Avedon Carol reports the following:
After Downing Street says Pelosi is opposing contempt charges against Karl Rove: “I have firm confirmation that Nancy Pelosi is urging the Judiciary committee NOT to go forward with contempt against Rove. Congressman John Conyers and the Judiciary staff are battling for it but this has become an infight among dems. Time to burn up the phone lines. 800-828-0498, 800-459-1887 or 800-614-2803 toll free to congressional switchboard. PLEASE CALL.” Go to the link for the list of committee members and their direct phone numbers. Pelosi’s phone should ring off the hook.
Clearly this is Obama’s fault, too. As I learned the last few weeks, now that he is the presumptive nominee, all he has to do is make a forceful statement and all those independent-minded members in the House will drop their own agenda and bow to his wishes.
Because, you know, Obama has all sorts of power as the presumptive nominee.
/netroots
In all seriousness, I simply do not know what Pelosi is doing. Why subpoena people at all if you are not going to do everything you can to force them to testify? Either they have nothing on Karl Rove and are just playing games, or the White House has something on them. Either way, one sure-fire way to lose any and all credibility with this and future administrations is to issue subpoenas and then stand by while people ignore them. Why the hell should anyone testify before Congress if Rove and company prove you can just tell them to piss up a rope? Additionally, do you think private citizens, if subpoenaed, could get away without jail time or repercussions if we ignored Congress?
*** Update ***
Bunch of people claiming this is all a rumor and Pelosi has done nothing of the sort.
4tehlulz
This is fucking strange. First, she goes ZOMG GOTTA VOTE ON FISA and now this. WTF do they have on her? Sex pics with Karl Rove? (Though if that were the case, I might do the same thing…)
Gay Veteran
Has Obama shown ANY leadership on this? Has he talked about using Congress’ power of inherent contempt?
…sound of crickets chirping…
Phoenix Woman
John, you might find this amusing:
Cage Match — Glenn Greenwald v. Al Giordano. Giordano’s winning.
cleek
Pelosi sucks. Reid too. but that’s been clear for years.
pinola
It’s not Obama’s fault directly, but believe it is due to the upcoming elections. It has taken them this long to just get to the issue of contempt citations and now that they have everything they need to go forward, the timing just ain’t right. (cue little-baby-crying-noise). Don’t want to rock the boat, oh dear me no! That’s a boring answer, but it’s very consistent with what the Dems have been doing since they won in 2006.
As for private citizens defying a subpoena, well, I’d rather not think about that cuz my brain might melt out of pure anger.
And, no, I don’t understand what’s wrong with Pelosi but this is also typical behavior from her.
Gay Veteran
better get used to no longer having a right to privacy:
linda
the only thing of importance to nancy pelosi was being the first woman in history to be speaker of the house.
apparently, she’s failed to realize that she will also be recorded as complicit in this administration’s crimes.
Dreggas
This should be no surprise after Pelosi saying “Impeachment is off the table”.
cleek
but but but! because all this was going on long before the FISA vote, i just can’t find a way to blame Obama! wahhh! help me out here, Gay Veteran ?
Gay Veteran
cleek, here’s an AP headline that pretty much sums it all up: “Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill”
AnnPW
Clearly this is Obama’s fault, too. As I learned the last few weeks, now that he is the presumptive nominee, all he has to do is make a forceful statement and all those independent-minded members in the House will drop their own agenda and bow to his wishes.
Presumably Obama DOES have the ability to stand by his word, which was to support a filibuster of any bill that contained telecom immunity – and this he did not do. I think most people know that Obama couldn’t change the outcome of this vote all by himself, but I don’t think it’s fair to deride people for being angry that he didn’t show a little more courage in his convictions, ESPECIALLY since his vote made NO political sense at all.
peter
She’s aiding and abetting the criminal Bush administration. It’s what she’s been doing, along with Reid, for quite some time. Haven’t you been paying attention?
cleek
what are you responding to ?
Gay Veteran
comment left at GOS: By the time the election rolls around… the only people left supporting Bush will be the democrats in the House and Senate.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
You’ve had one?
Sincerely,
The War on (Some) Drugs
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Yep, it had nothing to do with the Fourth Amendment, the Consitution, Mom, and apple pie. It was all about sticking it to Bush.
D.N. Nation
Phoenix Woman-
As someone who defended Glennzilla here yesterday, I’d like to add that
– He should really stop picking fights with anyone in sight and
– He should really stop initial-capping “He” when discussing Obama. We get it, Glenn, people like Obama too much for your liking. Point taken; stop being a dick.
zmulls
Arianna is reporting that the Pelosi rumor is false and has been debunked:
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
It’s Obama’s fault for not debunking it fast enough!
crack
Why bring up Obama? You just like showing contempt for people?
El Cid
I don’t know why some people seem to think this thing they keep linking to between Giordano fans and Greenwald over some fairly basic questions on a statement about covert surveillance throughout South America is some sort of proxy battle.
Substantively, I lean with Giordano. I read the same papers he does. But it’s also the case that Giordano flat out stated that certain surveillance was already being practiced across the entirety of South America, and *still*, despite all the comments, the only evidence presented has to do with Mexico or global and unspecified systems such as Echelon are thrown back and forth. And that holds for every one of the comments made so far.
In other words, no evidence has yet been offered to back up the statement yet:
This may be true, but I haven’t seen any clear evidence of this, and I am probably highly likely to believe it’s the case.
Maybe it’s some sort of hideous insult for Greenwald to ask Giordano where the evidence can be found for claims that all communications throughout South America are already being monitored by the U.S., and although I personally might feel that a great deal of that is already being done, I couldn’t prove that either.
I think that the Giordano readers hate Greenwald and get the ‘how dare you’ response pretty quick. And for that to convince you that “OMG Giordano is SOOOOO winning” is kind of a weird reaction to have.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
From my understanding, Al can’t offer further solid evidence as his sources are in deep cover.
Olly McPherson
I agree with El Cid on the Giordano/Greenwald exchange. Greenwald’s tone can needlessly pushy at times, but Giordano hasn’t come close to offering proof for his initial statement.
Zifnab
Seconded.
What’s more, my disappointment in Obama is nothing compared to my utter disgust for Steny Hoyer. That guy has all the integrity of Denny Hastert, but substantially less incompetence.
Pelosi backing down on Rove isn’t anything novel either. She’d rather spend her political capital doing other things. Landing earmarks, raising money for the next election cycle, winning political chits for future votes to land other earmarks and raise money for future election cycles… Dragging Rove up on charges doesn’t raise her any money and doesn’t win her any chits and doesn’t buy her any earmarks. For her, its a waste of time and a fight she doesn’t want to engage in.
Gingrich assumed he could shut down the government, oust a sitting President, and run the country by force. Pelosi is banking on the exact opposite political calculus – that you can sit on your hands, let the President do what he pleases, and ride the wave of disapproval into 2009.
Svensker
An unassailable argument, fer sher.
Tsulagi
And a third.
You know, if Bush really wanted to screw with his new buttboys, he could veto this abortion. Then just for the shits and giggles, and to show how well trained his submissives are, tell them to override.
Since the mighty principled Dem controlled Congress already passed this thing by veto-proof margins, no problem. They could comply “forcing” Bush to accept his own previously illegal program. No doubt to chants of “Follow Obama, override Bush!”
Vote Democratic! Taking gutless and stupid to levels prompting even God to say WTF?!
Dennis - SGMM
You guys don’t appreciate the subtle strategy of Pelosi/Hoyer. They fully expect to exhaust Bush by allowing him to continually kick them around. Then you’ll see their really good stuff.
It does not bode well for Obama to have a Congress dominated by craven, weak kneed opportunists. If he should be elected and the Democrats do win more seats their very lack of principles will likely cause them to do even more stupid things. The other day someone commented that Democratic Congresses live to humiliate Democratic Presidents. This lot seems to be on track to do just that. It was said of the emperor Gaius Caesar (Caligula) that there was never a better slave or a worse master. Et tu, Democrats?
les
Handy, that. I’m with El Cid–the whole response seems to be “how dare you question me.” Sweeping claims need more than assertions behind them; it seems kinda Judith Miller-y to me. Just ’cause he’s on the tubes, and saying something I’m inclined to accept, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t bullshit me.
Punchy
I’m guessing Pelosi-Hastert sex tapes. Chest sweat and lube and all.
Zifnab
Anybody remember the Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a boxer and just stands in the ring letting his opponent get tired and give up? Brilliant!
D.N. Nation
Um, isn’t this the same line of “reasoning” that we’ve taken Agent Flowbee to task for?
Which is not to say it’s untrue…just that it’s far too convenient.
Dan
John, I’d love to know what you think Obama’s ability to influence is. Does he have none at all? As the presumptive nominee can he do nothing other than sit in the Senate and cast votes? Do you still have enough Republican left in you that you believe the only kind of power is the Karl Rove variety? Does he have no ability to suggest that maybe the DNC, or his money machine, or future appointments or access to an all-but-certain Obama White House might be less than fabulous for those who go against him on an issue he takes a forceful stand on? You seem to regard him as Gulliver tied down by the Lilliputians and the only way I can see to explain that is a willful refusal to acknowledge the considerable soft power he now wields.
D.N. Nation
Apropos of nothing…
I like how Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Reynolds are both fully entrenched in the Loathe-Obama circuit. Neither have yet to accept this. It’s probably good for our sake, though…the resulting black holes created in their brains would destroy the universe.
john b
hate crime
mrmobi
Sounds like what Muhammad Ali used to call “rope-a-dope” only this congress doesn’t have stones to pull it off.
Doesn’t this argue for a strategy on Obama’s part which does not include pushing the Senate to do something (oppose FISA) which he knows they won’t do, and thus he loses to the very “week kneed opportunists” he will need to be able to cajole and intimidate as President?
The next Dem cave will be on offshore drilling. That too will be Obama’s fault.
cleek
it’s the rope-a-dope strategy!
one of these days, Pelosi’s gonna wind up and pow! let him have it, right in the junk.
i imagine that’ll be the same day Time Warner techs stop giving me the run-around about my intermittent connectivity problems.
emptywheel
I’ll reinforce what zmulls said above: The Pelosi rumor is false. I’ve had confirmation from both Pelosi’s staff AND two different people in HJC that it is false. As of mid-afternoon on Monday, the Speaker was supportive of a contempt vote on Karl.
SoulCatcher
Assuming Obama wins and Pelosi is still speaker at that time, I would not be surprised by Pelosi “standing up” to Obama over some future policy disagreement. I’m pretty certain she will have NO DIFFICULTY AT ALL rejecting pressure from Obama on some proposed bill.
Mark my words…
jake
Yo John, update to show the Pelosi-Rove Protection scandal’s been debunked. Check zmulls at 8.25.
I’ve been trying to think of how he could say (or forcefully hint at) these things without setting off the shit-storm of the century. The screams of “He’s a bully just like Bush!” alone would be deafening.
Pass.
Dan
Well he wouldn’t have to do it in public for God’s sake. A few words in private could get the job done.
Dennis - SGMM
That strategy works only when there aren’t dopes on both ends of the rope.
Cynicor
The Pelosi rumor is debunked as false. But remember that Hoyer’s office also strenuously denied that there was any FISA work going on until they sprung the “compromise” on everyone and talked about how much work it took to hammer it out.
Tsulagi
lol…Yeah, that does seem to be the weak point in their strategery.
ThymeZone
I’m pretty sure, hunchwise, that what is going on here is basically what I said was going on a year ago or so. Dem leadersip has decided that the type of fights we are talking about here (using, say, Rove and FISA as two current examples) are mechanisms the GOP uses to steal the attention of a braying media, to suck the oxygen out of the political space and keep the people from noticing other things.
They really don’t care if a fight erupts over Rove, or FISA, or whether they “win” those fights. They just want the microphone. They just want the Dems to give them the soapboxes they need to make their noise. As long as they are making noise, and it’s about them or about things they are connected with, then Dems are tied up talking about those things, and this works for the GOP.
If you will recall the “Dynamite in the Distance” story from Kevin Drum’s site? These things are just the sticks of dynamite. The Dems are calcuating that if they don’t lite the fuses, the GOP strategy fails, and the bandwidth gets used some other way.
You have about 117 days now to elect a Dem president. Between an Iran resolution, a Rove fight, and a bitter FISA fight, the GOP could eat that time up easily.
But, not if we keep our eyes on the ball.
oh really
Only Ali’s strategy was to have Foreman exhaust himself by constantly delivering body blows. The Democrats’ version of “rope-a-dope” seems to be to have Bush exhaust himself by constantly knocking them out.
Rome Again
I have never been impressed with Nancy Pelosi. She rolls over like a dog. She has never shown any real “leadership” on anything. She seems to be more cozy with Bush policies since she had tea with him.