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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War / The Next War Starts With the Number 362

The Next War Starts With the Number 362

by John Cole|  July 10, 200810:26 am| 118 Comments

This post is in: War, Democratic Stupidity, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.

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Yesterday, on Hardball (transcript when it becomes available), Tom DeLay was, for whatever reason, poisoning the airwaves rather than facing trial somewhere, and in the course of his appearance noted that we need to immediately erect a blockade around Iran, and that it had to be done soon, by this administration, or we may lose our chance because a President Obama would not. Expect to see the cries for a blockade of Iran increase over the next few weeks and months as the usual suspects, unhappy with our current two wars, will agitate for a third (for those of you so inclined, Pat Lang has some thoughts here that are relevant).

As such, it is worthwhile to note where some of this stuff is coming from, and one source is House Concurrent Resolution 362, which Rep. Wexler, a co-sponsor of the bill, discusses here at the HuffPo:

In the coming weeks, the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, of which I am a member, may vote on House Concurrent Resolution 362. Given my growing concerns regarding this resolution, including its failure to advocate for direct American engagement with Tehran and open language that could lead to a US blockade of Iran, I will lead an effort to make changes to this resolution before it comes to the Foreign Affairs committee for a vote. Despite being a cosponsor of this resolution — these changes will ultimately determine whether or not I will continue to support H. Con. Res. 362.

My rationale for originally supporting H. Con. Res. 362, which currently has 230 cosponsors, was to urge the Bush administration to pursue a policy to place additional economic, political and diplomatic pressure on Iran as part of an international endeavor to prevent Tehran from moving forward on its nuclear program. Given my intense distrust of President Bush and his administration’s disastrous foreign policy record, I also sponsored legislation (H. R. 3119), which if passed into law would prohibit the use of funds for military operations in Iran unless authorized by Congress and prevents the president from unilaterally going to war.

Good thinking Rep. Wexler, as no one could have predicted the GOP would latch on to one bill and ignore the other. It is simply unpossible for anyone to have known that would happen.

At any rate, the actual text of the bill can be found here, and here is the portion that is perceived to be a green light for the blockade:

Whereas nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization of the use of force against Iran: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That Congress–

***

(3) demands that the President initiate an international effort to immediately and dramatically increase the economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran to verifiably suspend its nuclear enrichment activities by, inter alia, prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran; and prohibiting the international movement of all Iranian officials not involved in negotiating the suspension of Iran’s nuclear program;

If the House passes this, they a step closer to the signing statement greenlighting the next Middle East fiasco. And only a fool would think the Bush administration wouldn’t jump at the opportunity. Great work, guys.

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118Comments

  1. 1.

    Wilfred

    July 10, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Wexler is the House equivalent of Lieberman – a complete Aipac shill whose sole interest is advancing the cause of Israel. His hand-wringing here stems from the fact that some people are actually starting to push back against the Israel First crowd so a little cya is in order.

    A lot of Americans don’t want to be dragged off into a war because Aipac thinks it’s good for Israel.

  2. 2.

    jake

    July 10, 2008 at 10:38 am

    noted that we need to immediately erect a blockade around Iran

    Yes of course Mr. Insecticide Sniffing Person sir, we’ve got plenty of people and resources to spare to “erect” your fence of freedom. Just move all of the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to the appropriate border. And no one will mind if we block up the Straits of Hormuz with our Navy.

    Another political term I never want to hear again: The use of the word “we” to mean “A bunch of guys who’ll be put in harms way while I sit on my fat ass and bloviate.”

    I have a better idea. Take all of the money we’re spending on this never ending idiocy and dump it over Iran. They’ll be our friends 4evar. Assuming they aren’t crushed.

  3. 3.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Obligatory Gulf of Tonkin reference.

  4. 4.

    Grand Moff Texan

    July 10, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Tom DeLay was, for whatever reason, poisoning the airwaves rather than facing trial somewhere, and in the course of his appearance noted that we need to immediately erect a blockade around Iran, and that it had to be done soon

    Stupid fucking cracker can’t even read a map.
    .

  5. 5.

    Martin

    July 10, 2008 at 10:44 am

    So, the prevailing American attitude is that only the US and US favored European and Asian nations are entitled to energy independence and even life itself.

    Why don’t people like us more?

    As far as I can tell, Iran’s posturing is purely self-defense. In the axis-of-evil, the guys that were armed to the 9’s (North Korea) got a continual pass, the guys that actually weren’t (Iraq) got invaded, and the guys in the middle (Iran) are getting constant threats of being attacked. Seems that the way to deal diplomatically with the US is to lob some missiles over a US ally to make it clear that talks are the way to go – which is effectively what Iran is doing.

    Can anyone articulate what a winning plan for Iran would be other than what they are doing based on how we’ve acted in the recent past?

  6. 6.

    Incertus

    July 10, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Wexler is the House equivalent of Lieberman – a complete Aipac shill whose sole interest is advancing the cause of Israel.

    He’s no Lieberman. His Israel support comes from the fact that his district has a more than significant Jewish population, so he’s representing his constituency. Its possible he’s pushing back because he has higher ambitions–Mel Martinez is up for re-election in 2010, after all–and he has to expand beyond that base. It was no surprise to me that he was at the head of the Obama argument at the DNC meeting–no way to better get yourself recognized than by hanging with the next President.

  7. 7.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    Whereas nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization of the use of force against Iran

    So there!

    We’ll vote to call Iran’s army a “terrorist organization”, give Bush money for (cough cough) intelligence-gathering missions inside Iran, and call for him to blockade Iran–but we don’t authorize him to use force against Iran, because we have “intense distrust” of Bush!

    God, I love this Congress!!!

  8. 8.

    Fwiffo

    July 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    I also sponsored legislation (H. R. 3119)…

    I do believe the number you’re looking for is Article I, Section 8.

    …which if passed into law would prohibit the use of funds for military operations in Iran unless authorized by Congress and prevents the president from unilaterally going to war.

    That’s pure genius right there. We now need to pass laws in order to actually realize the separation of powers laid out in the plain English of the Constitution.

  9. 9.

    Bootlegger

    July 10, 2008 at 10:46 am

    What makes anyone think we could blockade Iran, even if we weren’t currently fighting a 2-front war?

  10. 10.

    El Cid

    July 10, 2008 at 10:49 am

    This is a brilliant, clever move by Wexler which in no way intended any of the disastrous consequences highly likely to follow, and anyone who suggests that likely consequences follow obvious precedents is a crazy netroots progressive moonbat who doesn’t understand important stuff.

  11. 11.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 10, 2008 at 10:49 am

    he’s representing his constituency

    Really? Wexler’s constituency is Israeli citizens? How did citizens of another country get to vote in American elections?

    Otherwise, he ought to forget about Israel and work for this country’s [America’s] interests. It is kind of his f**king job.

  12. 12.

    Bootlegger

    July 10, 2008 at 10:51 am

    We now need to pass laws in order to actually realize the separation of powers laid out in the plain English of the Constitution.

    I still wonder how declaring a “war on terror” is not a “declaration of war”, which is of course reserved for the congress and not the executive branch.

  13. 13.

    Zifnab

    July 10, 2008 at 10:53 am

    He’s no Lieberman. His Israel support comes from the fact that his district has a more than significant Jewish population, so he’s representing his constituency.

    Doesn’t he represent Boca Raton, Florida? Every Jewish grandmother in the world (including my own) has property there. I don’t know if this is a smart move – in so far as Wexler is trying to get out in front of the issue from the get go – or a disaster waiting to happen. That whole “this is not an AUMF” disclaimer at the top makes me feel a little better. But it still feels like farting in the middle of a hurricane. What, exactly, is this bill supposed to accomplish? Does Iranian uranium enrichment even crack the top ten things that Americans care about? Is the whole housing crisis / FISA abortion / dragging economy / loaming inflation / Iraq / Afghanistan / ballooning deficit mess not enough?

    I typically liked Wexler as he’s been a respectable liberal voice. I don’t know what to think of this. :-p *sigh*

  14. 14.

    D.N. Nation

    July 10, 2008 at 11:02 am

    What, exactly, is to be accomplished from smacking Iran around?

    And when I say accomplished, I’m asking for Good Things That Actually Have A Chance Of Success.

  15. 15.

    Incertus

    July 10, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Doesn’t he represent Boca Raton, Florida? Every Jewish grandmother in the world (including my own) has property there.

    That’s part of his district, along with areas west and south of there. My in-laws live in his district, and it’s pretty heavily Jewish. Notorious P.A.T.’s comment illustrates just how little he knows the area or how much Israel matters to the Jews who live down here. I’m not saying that I agree with Wexler’s stances, just that I understand where he’s coming from–Israel matters a lot to his constituents, so it matters to him. End of story.

  16. 16.

    fuddmain

    July 10, 2008 at 11:05 am

    What, exactly, is to be accomplished from smacking Iran around?

    And when I say accomplished, I’m asking for Good Things That Actually Have A Chance Of Success.

    The Rapture. Good being relative.

  17. 17.

    Dreggas

    July 10, 2008 at 11:13 am

    And if passed Bush will ignore it, much like he has continued to do with any attempt by congress to limit what he does.

  18. 18.

    Incertus

    July 10, 2008 at 11:18 am

    What, exactly, is to be accomplished from smacking Iran around?

    Bush gets to take himself from probably being the worst President ever to absolutely positively the worst President ever. His legacy is secure!

  19. 19.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 11:22 am

    What, exactly, is to be accomplished from smacking Iran around?

    Smacking Iran around is an end in itself, not a means to one.

    Kinda like Iraq, really.

  20. 20.

    Wilfred

    July 10, 2008 at 11:24 am

    I’m not saying that I agree with Wexler’s stances, just that I understand where he’s coming from—Israel matters a lot to his constituents, so it matters to him. End of story.

    No, it isn’t. It wasn’t when we had a President who put American interests first:

    As we began to uncover evidence that something was building up in Israel, we demanded pledges from Ben-Gurion that he would keep the peace. We realized that he might think he could take advantage of this country because of the approaching election and because of the importance that so many politicians in the past have attached to our Jewish vote. I gave strict orders to the State Department that they should inform Israel that we would handle our affairs exactly as though we didn’t have a Jew in America. The welfare and best interests of our own country were to be the sole criteria on which we operated.

    That’s Eisenhower writing about the Suez crisis. The worst mistake we can make is to think that things always were and will always be the way they are now.

    Eisehower put the lie to your comment.

  21. 21.

    Zifnab

    July 10, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Smacking Iran around is an end in itself, not a means to one.

    It does a great job of driving up the price of gas. Then, with a gas shortage, we suddenly have to start letting people drill closer to the Gulf Coast where every barrel they fill up is worth exponentially more money than, say, back in ’94 or ’00. Hurray, monies!

  22. 22.

    Martin

    July 10, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Notorious P.A.T.’s comment illustrates just how little he knows the area or how much Israel matters to the Jews who live down here.

    I don’t think that’s the case. Swap in any other national/ethnic group for Israeli/Jewish and ask yourself how far the Dems, let alone the GOP, would go to extend the national security blanket to cover them.

    Don’t get me wrong – I’m glad that the US is a friend of Israel, but there are definitely times when it seems like Israels national interests are being placed ahead of US interests, and there seems to be a consistent racial bias on how we treat foreign nations.

  23. 23.

    DBrown

    July 10, 2008 at 11:31 am

    It is simply unpossible for anyone to have known that would happen.

    We have a winner – unpossible! Great word but unless you are bushwhacked, not really what I would call, clear writing.

    The chance of real war (i.e. ground troops): zero; the chance of air attacks 50% (or 100% if bloody hands cheney takes control as per his normal operations.) Or the numerical value (in dollars) of a gallon of gas when the Iranians close the Gulf off after an American attack.

  24. 24.

    jnfr

    July 10, 2008 at 11:34 am

    What, exactly, is to be accomplished from smacking Iran around?

    I’m sure it will do wonders for the price of oil.

  25. 25.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 11:43 am

    I’m not saying that I agree with Wexler’s stances, just that I understand where he’s coming from—Israel matters a lot to his constituents, so it matters to him. End of story.

    exactly. if the dude didn’t vote pro-israel, his constituents would replace him with someone who did.

  26. 26.

    shirt

    July 10, 2008 at 11:44 am

    What makes anyone believe the world will permit the US to gutter their economies that such a blockade surely would cause.

    Look at the bright side of life: a nuclear winter will resolve the global warming problem.

  27. 27.

    ThymeZone

    July 10, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I posted this to an adjacent thread, but since I am lazy and since it is relevant here, I will repost it here:

    I’m pretty sure, hunchwise, that what is going on here is basically what I said was going on a year ago or so. Dem leadersip has decided that the type of fights we are talking about here (using, say, Rove and FISA as two current examples) are mechanisms the GOP uses to steal the attention of a braying media, to suck the oxygen out of the political space and keep the people from noticing other things.

    They really don’t care if a fight erupts over Rove, or FISA, or whether they “win” those fights. They just want the microphone. They just want the Dems to give them the soapboxes they need to make their noise. As long as they are making noise, and it’s about them or about things they are connected with, then Dems are tied up talking about those things, and this works for the GOP.

    If you will recall the “Dynamite in the Distance” story from Kevin Drum’s site? These things are just the sticks of dynamite. The Dems are calcuating that if they don’t lite the fuses, the GOP strategy fails, and the bandwidth gets used some other way.

    You have about 117 days now to elect a Dem president. Between an Iran resolution, a Rove fight, and a bitter FISA fight, the GOP could eat that time up easily.

    But, not if we keep our eyes on the ball.

  28. 28.

    Incertus

    July 10, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I’m sure it will do wonders for the price of oil.

    Maybe that’s Bush’s game–start shit with Iran, send the price of oil to $250-300 a barrel, and put the US economy further into the shitter just in time for President Obama to take over.

    And Wilfred–comparing a member of the House to the President of the US is stupid. The President is supposed to represent the nation–the Congressperson represents his or her district.

  29. 29.

    Fledermaus

    July 10, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    That whole “this is not an AUMF” disclaimer at the top makes me feel a little better.

    Yeah, because Bush Cheney always adheres strictly to the letter of the law.

  30. 30.

    rawshark

    July 10, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    Incertus Says:

    I’m sure it will do wonders for the price of oil.

    Maybe that’s Bush’s game—start shit with Iran, send the price of oil to $250-300 a barrel,

    Did Osama call for the price to be that high?

  31. 31.

    L. Ron Obama

    July 10, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    TZ, I think you give the Dem leadership entirely too much credit. It’s too contrived a solution.

  32. 32.

    cleek

    July 10, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    We have a winner – unpossible! Great word but unless you are bushwhacked, not really what I would call, clear writing.

    all Simpsons fans know “unpossible”.

  33. 33.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 10, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Lemme see now, Iran is bordered by three former SSR’s; Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan. This part of the border also includes roughly 650 kilometers of water along the Caspian Sea. It also borders on the the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman to the tune of 1800 kilometers. The other border nations are; Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq.
    Other than violating international law and the sovereignty of several nations they’re going to accomplish

    …prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran…

    exactly how?

  34. 34.

    norm

    July 10, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    4tehlulz Says:
    “Obligatory Gulf of Tonkin reference.”

    How soon you forget the attack and sinking and intentional murdering of some survivors of the USS Liberty?
    Sank by Israel, they fired on survivors as well.
    Yes, Israel knew it was a US ship.

  35. 35.

    Wag

    July 10, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    I think the upside of war with Iran is being underestimated. For instance, if we are at was in Iraq and Afganistan, that counts as 2 wars, separated by the country of Iran. If we at was with all 3 contiguous counties, that would be only 1 war. Think of the PR advantage for Bush-“I stopped a war by going to war!”

  36. 36.

    ThymeZone

    July 10, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    TZ, I think you give the Dem leadership entirely too much credit. It’s too contrived a solution.

    Don’t agree. I think the solution fits just about the last 50 years of history, and fits with the GOP’s stated strategy. The “Dynamite in the Distance” model and the explanation of it came from Republicans, not from me.

    As for Dems, putting aside policy differences, I think they are every bit as Machiavellian as the Republicans are. They didn’t maintain control of Congress all those years by being nice, plainspoken people.

  37. 37.

    Wilfred

    July 10, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    And Wilfred—comparing a member of the House to the President of the US is stupid. The President is supposed to represent the nation—the Congressperson represents his or her district.

    It’s not who is representing whom that’s the problem – the voters who put Israel’s interests before the United States should be told to go fuck themselves, or to go live in Israel.

    Giving Wexler a free pass because he’s a only a representative is the stupidest goddamned thing I’ve heard yet in what amounts to constant obfuscation of the efforts to get the US in yet another war.

    Does he take his oath to defend the Boca Raton telephone directory or the United States?

  38. 38.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    If we at was with all 3 contiguous counties, that would be only 1 war.

    I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  39. 39.

    John S.

    July 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    the voters who put Israel’s interests before the United States should be told to go fuck themselves, or to go live in Israel.

    Forced relocation of American citizens who don’t share your views?

    I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter…

    Full disclosure: I am a Wexler constituent, Jewish, disagree with his actions here and I think you’re an idiot.

  40. 40.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    the voters who put Israel’s interests before the United States

    thing is, those voters think that a stronger more supported israel is in the US’s best interest. they argue that the policies they back are good for the US. their representative apparently agrees and votes accordingly, thus keeping his job.

    you, of course, disagree (the fact that you go into a frothy rage every time the “I” word is brought up is the first clue).

  41. 41.

    Wilfred

    July 10, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Forced relocation of American citizens who don’t share your views?

    Forced relocation of ANY MOTHERFUCKER WHO PUTS THE INTERESTS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY BEFORE THOSE OF THE UNTIED STATES AND WHO IS WILLING TO GET AMERICANS KILLED TO FURTHER THOSE INTERESTS.

    That clear enough for you, you weasely cocksucker? Of course, please feel free to state your own views on a relatively simple subject.

  42. 42.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Forced relocation of ANY MOTHERFUCKER WHO PUTS THE INTERESTS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY BEFORE THOSE OF THE UNTIED STATES AND WHO IS WILLING TO GET AMERICANS KILLED TO FURTHER THOSE INTERESTS.

    well, as much as i’d like to see everyone who supports the war in iraq forbibly relocated from the country, it sounds a bit too stalinesque for my blood.

    look out everybody, wilfred’s going into a tantrum.

  43. 43.

    Incertus

    July 10, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Forced relocation of ANY MOTHERFUCKER WHO PUTS THE INTERESTS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY BEFORE THOSE OF THE UNTIED STATES AND WHO IS WILLING TO GET AMERICANS KILLED TO FURTHER THOSE INTERESTS.

    Oh go fuck yourself, you hyper-nationalist dickweed.

  44. 44.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Full disclosure: I am a Wexler constituent, Jewish

    uh oh. here’s a tip: when you’re arguing with wilfred, don’t ever, ever let on that you’re jewish. drives the dude batty.

  45. 45.

    Wilfred

    July 10, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Oh go fuck yourself, you hyper-nationalist dickweed.

    Blow me. I have business to attend to so unhappily can’t participate in the forthcoming Poor Little Israel obfuscatory circle jerk. Dual loyalties are not my thing, anyway, and it won’t be my ass that gets blown to pieces.

    The tide is turning in this fight, and you know it.

  46. 46.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    it won’t be my ass that gets blown to pieces.

    Spoken like a true chickenhawk Wilfred.

  47. 47.

    DBrown

    July 10, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    This is getting too nasty – next, someone will tell someone to cheney themselves;

  48. 48.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    what, don’t leave us, wilfred. it’s so much fun to watch you get all rabid when israel is brought up. israelisraelisrael! BOO! OMG, here come teh jooz! noooooo!

    Blow me. I have business to attend to

    would that ‘business’ be…hatin’ on israel?

  49. 49.

    asl

    July 10, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Straight-shooter tells us he hates war. Bomb, bomb, bomb…bomb, bomb Iran.

  50. 50.

    cleek

    July 10, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    mmm . pie .

  51. 51.

    Crust

    July 10, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Context in case anyone doesn’t know: a blockade is traditionally considered an act of war. (Though, to be fair, it’s not clear to me what the borderline between a blockade and aggressive sanctions is supposed to be.)

  52. 52.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    would that ‘business’ be

    Going to work as his alter ego: Marshall Whitman.

  53. 53.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 10, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Spittle shields up!

  54. 54.

    L. Ron Obama

    July 10, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    THE UNTIED STATES

    Not a big Federalism fan eh?

  55. 55.

    John S.

    July 10, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Of course, please feel free to state your own views on a relatively simple subject.

    I thought I already did.

    I disagree with Wexler and I think Israel can defend itself. I also think some people disagree with me and feel protecting Israel is in our best interest. I don’t think people who disagree with me should be cast into an abyss.

    And I still think you’re an idiot – A new and improved one with more rage and hyperventilating!

  56. 56.

    Davebo

    July 10, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Whereas nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization of the use of force against Iran

    Hello? A blockade is, under international law, an act of war.

    Why not just declare war on Iran and get it over with?

  57. 57.

    libarbarian

    July 10, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Forced relocation of ANY MOTHERFUCKER WHO PUTS THE INTERESTS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY BEFORE THOSE OF THE UNTIED STATES AND WHO IS WILLING TO GET AMERICANS KILLED TO FURTHER THOSE INTERESTS.

    You got a machine for seeing inside people’s heads to divine their “true” motivation for policy, or are you just going to start by presuming that Jews are traitors unless they prove otherwise to your satisfaction?

  58. 58.

    Davebo

    July 10, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Apparently it’s only an act of war when others do it.

    The commander of US naval forces in the Persian Gulf says any attempt by Iran to shut down the Strait of Hormuz will be an ‘act of war’.

    Vice Admiral Kevin Cosgriff, the commander of the Fifth Fleet – responsible for naval operations in the Persian Gulf -, said Monday that the White House will not allow the strategic Persian Gulf oil passage to be sealed off.

    Sort of like torture.

  59. 59.

    liberal

    July 10, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Incertus wrote,

    His Israel support comes from the fact that his district has a more than significant Jewish population, so he’s representing his constituency.

    Not clear that’s true: actual individual American Jews are more dovish (probably much more dovish, but I don’t have poll results in front of me) than organizations like AIPAC.

  60. 60.

    Punchy

    July 10, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    I want Lou Dobbs to demand a blockade of Acapulco, Cabo, and Cancun, to keep those Dirty Mexys off our pristine soil.

  61. 61.

    liberal

    July 10, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Zifnab wrote,

    I typically liked Wexler as he’s been a respectable liberal voice. I don’t know what to think of this. :-p sigh

    Yes, but on this class of issues…

    AFAICT he voted for the AUMF against Saddam in 2002.

    And as for respectable liberal voices, a similar case (in 2002, at any rate) was Waxman.

  62. 62.

    liberal

    July 10, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Incertus wrote,

    I’m not saying that I agree with Wexler’s stances, just that I understand where he’s coming from—Israel matters a lot to his constituents, so it matters to him. End of story.

    For that strong a claim, you should really be citing poll results, especially because “Israel matters” is not logically equivalent to “we need to ratchet up the heat on Iran.”

    Also, we might ask whether the prospect of $12/gal gasoline is of concern to his constituents.

  63. 63.

    Tsulagi

    July 10, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    uh oh. here’s a tip: when you’re arguing with wilfred, don’t ever, ever let on that you’re jewish. drives the dude batty.

    Don’t try to interfere, it’s fun to watch.

    My personal fave was when Wilfred was going to call for an American Muslim jihadi Tet at the polls on Hillary’s ass if she “stole” the nomination from Obama. Comedy gold.

  64. 64.

    Punchy

    July 10, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    I think the upside of war with Iran is being underestimated. For instance, if we are at was in Iraq and Afganistan, that counts as 2 wars, separated by the country of Iran. If we at was with all 3 contiguous counties, that would be only 1 war. Think of the PR advantage for Bush-”I stopped a war by going to war!”

    Utter genius! Wow, this is teh awesum.

    What would we call such a forceably contrived and fakey nation? Afraqistan? Iranistaq? Iraqaghafistan?

  65. 65.

    liberal

    July 10, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Zifnab wrote,

    That whole “this is not an AUMF” disclaimer at the top makes me feel a little better.

    Given the recent history of this stuff? Come on…it just makes him look like an imbecile.

  66. 66.

    w vincentz

    July 10, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Wow! I must make a confession.
    See, I used to think that “war” was a “bad” thing. Many times I was involved in protests and marches to demonstrate my opposition to “war”.
    Heck, I’ll admit it, I was a shhh…”pacifist”.
    Now, my friends, I finally see the light.
    I can’t believe how stupid I had been thinking “war” was “bad”.
    The TRUTH is that “war” is “good”.
    Here are some of the positive aspects of “war” that forced me to change my demented thinking.
    War is good for the economy. Many hard working Americans are employed producing armaments. From jets to aircraft carriers, bombs to bullets, many people are employed and rewarded for their efforts. Jobs are good.
    War is good for population control. With the world’s resources deminishing, it’s good to get rid of those “others” that would only create additonal demand on those ever vanishing resources. It leaves more petroleum for me, and less congested highways to boot.
    Then, there’s the genetics. “War” assures that only smart people get to pass along their genes. The stupid ones sign up and get their asses blown up. Do you really want more stupid people creating additonal stupid people? I didn’t think so. If they’re stupid enough to get themselves killed or kill other stupid people, so be it. Those of us that remain are better off getting rid of those stupid genes from the human gene pool.
    I could go on and on…
    Thankfully, I’ve come to see the light. “War” is good.
    I think we need at least thiry more wars in the next few months. Bring ’em on!

  67. 67.

    cleek

    July 10, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    we’ve always been at war with Persia

  68. 68.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    >>we might ask whether the prospect of $12/gal gasoline is of concern to his constituents.

    Considering that many of his constituents shouldn’t be driving, this might not be a bad thing.

  69. 69.

    Ben Richards

    July 10, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    I agree with Tsulagi. The Wilfred meltdowns are epic. He also threatened to translate something into Arabic, add some “rhetorical flourishes” and get it posted on the bulletin board of every mosque in Dearborn. Brilliant stuff.

  70. 70.

    David Hunt

    July 10, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Does he take his oath to defend the Boca Raton telephone directory or the United States?

    Neither. His oath is to protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution of the U.S. A bit nit-picky, perhaps but I am heartily tired of hearing Bush hacks talk about about there oath to “Protect America”, or (bonus points) that they took an oath to “President Bush.”

  71. 71.

    liberal

    July 10, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Wilfred wrote,

    Does he take his oath to defend the Boca Raton telephone directory or the United States?

    I was thinking the same thing—the “but this is what my constituents want” dodge can be taken too far.

    Furthermore, base pandering to the perceived interests of his constituents isn’t the only way forward for him. He could simply explain, in straightforward language, that escalating conflict with Iran is good for neither the US nor Israel, regardless of what neocons here or Likudniks there think.

    The fact that he voted for the AUMF in 2002 means to me he has no credibility on this issue.

  72. 72.

    Dork

    July 10, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    uh oh. here’s a tip: when you’re arguing with wilfred, don’t ever, ever let on that you’re jewish. drives the dude batty.

    I love Jews. Orange and apple are my favs.

  73. 73.

    Paul L.

    July 10, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Tom DeLay was, for whatever reason, poisoning the airwaves rather than facing trial somewhere

    It seem that progressive hero Ronnie Earle is moving his case against Delay with Mike Nifong like speed.
    Quote of the Day about poor “peaceful” Iran that the US is picking on.
    Missile Shields and Deterrence

    It’s a little disturbing when a major Presidential candidate’s first instincts after the Iranians test 9 long missiles are to blame his government for not engaging in direct talks. The real story here is to ask why, if Teheran has no WMD ambitions, it has any ballistic missile program at all. Does anyone actually believe these expensive missiles are going to be fitted with conventional warheads? That would be so cost ineffective as to be implausible. Any reasonable person, looking at the situation, would regard the firing of the 9 missiles with alarm. I think BHO’s reactions are almost unnatural.

  74. 74.

    Zifnab

    July 10, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    It seem that progressive hero Ronnie Earle is moving his case against Delay with Mike Nifong like speed.

    Hurray! Paul found his happy place!

  75. 75.

    John S.

    July 10, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Hurray! Paul found his happy place!

    All roads lead to Duke Lacrosse.

  76. 76.

    Face

    July 10, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    The real story here is to ask why, if Teheran has no WMD ambitions, it has any ballistic missile program at all.

    Good question. I didn’t know missles could be fitted with anything but plutonium or candy ‘n flowers.

    I bet they’re stuffing theirs with gay Korans, so they can rain down on Israel with a fruity Allah, bent on destroying all their marriages.

    God I love Paul L.

  77. 77.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 10, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    We should ask why Iran has an army, navy and air force. Why, I even hear that the police in Iran carry guns!

  78. 78.

    El Cid

    July 10, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    We might want to, also, stop giving the crazy hawks of the U.S. and Israel the authority to define only crazy hawk policies as pro-Israel.

    Maybe policies that actually make life better over there are what’s pro-Israel.

    Not that I would dare question the policy insights of a fine coalition of nuts including types such as Joe Lieberman, perpetual Reaganite warhawks, and rapture-seeking fundamentalist Christians.

  79. 79.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    The real story here is to ask why, if Teheran has no WMD ambitions, it has any ballistic missile program at all.

    Dunno lol

  80. 80.

    chopper

    July 10, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Good question. I didn’t know missles could be fitted with anything but plutonium or candy ‘n flowers.

    remember when saddam lobbed all those scuds at israel back during gulf war I?

    all of em, full of midget prostitutes. every. single. one.

  81. 81.

    jake

    July 10, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    The commander of US naval forces in the Persian Gulf says any attempt by Iran to shut down the Strait of Hormuz will be an ‘act of war’.

    Maybe my map is a bit outdated but I don’t see anything marked “US territory,” in that region.

    White House will not allow the strategic Persian Gulf oil passage to be sealed off.

    Wow. No freedom and democracy foreplay. Just BAM! straight to the need to protect the OIL. I wonder how the hell bAdmin hasn’t turned OPEC’s refusal to step up production into a causus belli.

  82. 82.

    Paul L.

    July 10, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    We should ask why Iran has an army, navy and air force. Why, I even hear that the police in Iran carry guns!

    Maybe you should talk to the guy that you support than.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Wednesday that Iran’s missile tests highlight the need for direct diplomacy as well as tougher threats of economic sanctions and strong incentives to persuade Tehran to change its behavior.

    Obama criticized the Bush administration for not engaging Iran in direct talks and for using bellicose language against the government while at the same time increasing exports to Iran.

  83. 83.

    cleek

    July 10, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    remember when saddam lobbed all those scuds at israel back during gulf war I?

    remember what such behavior earned Saddam ?

  84. 84.

    Andrew

    July 10, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Maybe we can ship a bunch of cigarettes down to Boca and they’ll just kill themselves! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOL

  85. 85.

    John S.

    July 10, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Maybe you should talk to the guy that you support than.

    Yes, clearly the Bush/McCain policy of threats and saber rattling has succesfully deterred Iran from any military ambitions.

    Jackass.

  86. 86.

    Face

    July 10, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Maybe my map is a bit outdated but I don’t see anything marked “US territory,” in that region.

    Stoopit moonbat. Anything not marked “not U.S.” is the U.S.’s. By default.

    So we own the Strait of Hormel, where the world’s supply of chili comes from.

  87. 87.

    Punchy

    July 10, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    True story — I’m currently tutoring an Iranian college student. I’m thinking if we attack Iran, I’ll demand she stop calling me, for real fear the FBI will show up at mah door askin questions. How absolutely shitty is that?

  88. 88.

    OriGuy

    July 10, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    What would we call such a forceably contrived and fakey nation? Afraqistan? Iranistaq? Iraqaghafistan?

    Why not The Caliphate? Give Bin Laden everything he wants!

  89. 89.

    D. Mason

    July 10, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    It seems like the Jewish lobby doesn’t think there’s enough anti-sematism here in America. They’re doing everything in their power to fix that.

  90. 90.

    w vincentz

    July 10, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    War with Iran would be great. If a few of the older US Navy vessels get sunk, so what? We have hard working ‘Mercans that will just build new better ones. This is a superb way to create jobs, jobs, and more jobs.
    Then, there are all those tee-shirts that I’ve been warehousing. The ones with “I Like Rapture” on front and back that didn’t sell too well with the little advertisement in Charisma magazine. They’ll sell like hotcakes now, especially outside Cornerstone Baptist Church in San Antonio. Haggee is probably an xxxx large (I don’t have too many in that size left in stock).
    Then there’s all that oil. With Iraq having the second largest reserves, and Iran the third largest, well, gas will probably drop to thirteen cents a gallon. I think I’ll buy a huge SUV now while the prices are still cheap.
    Yup, war with Iran will be good, very good. Lots of $$$ to be made. Bring it on Georgie.

  91. 91.

    D. Mason

    July 10, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    True story—I’m currently tutoring an Iranian college student. I’m thinking if we attack Iran, I’ll demand she stop calling me, for real fear the FBI will show up at mah door askin questions. How absolutely shitty is that?

    No need to discontinue giving aid and comfort to this “person”, I’m pretty sure you’re already on “teh list”.

  92. 92.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Why not The Caliphate? Give Bin Laden everything he wants!

    That’s the only thing on bin Laden’s checklist that we haven’t done yet.

  93. 93.

    Punchy

    July 10, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    No need to discontinue giving aid and comfort to this “person”, I’m pretty sure you’re already on “teh list”.

    Yeah, she knows and openly acknowleges that she’s tapped. Her whole family is wiretapped, too. Said the FBI/CIA don’t even try to hide the clicks and other obvious noises. Figger I’m prolly on the list, but if not yet, certainly would be after an attack. Kinda scary, actually. Could I still fly?

  94. 94.

    PeterJ

    July 10, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    OT

    what seems to be another turn of “He’s not eligible to be President”, and this time it’s McCain again.

    If McCain himself gets thrown under the bus after the convention, does the VP canidate take over?

  95. 95.

    Tsulagi

    July 10, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    True story—I’m currently tutoring an Iranian college student. I’m thinking if we attack Iran, I’ll demand she stop calling me, for real fear the FBI will show up at mah door askin questions.

    Sorry, dude, you’re already toast. Better start carrying Astroglide with you at all times incase you’re suddenly picked up on the street then put in a cell with Ahmed the Giant.

  96. 96.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 10, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    It’s reassuring to know that Muslims worldwide would not be disturbed, upset, or in any way likely to discern a pattern after the US attacked a third Islamic nation.

  97. 97.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    It’s reassuring to know that Muslims worldwide would not be disturbed, upset, or in any way likely to discern a pattern after the US attacked a third Islamic nation.

    Oh please. It’s only a crusade coincidence.

  98. 98.

    Martin

    July 10, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    True story—I’m currently tutoring an Iranian college student. I’m thinking if we attack Iran, I’ll demand she stop calling me, for real fear the FBI will show up at mah door askin questions. How absolutely shitty is that?

    Don’t sweat it. After 9/11 the FBI visited me repeatedly. I see them every month or so as it is, but they were asking about pretty much everyone I knew that had travelled to the middle east recently. Living in a community with a ton of persians and knowing a zillion engineers, I swear they asked about half the people I knew.

    It was annoying, but harmless.

  99. 99.

    AnneLaurie

    July 10, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Smacking Iran around is an end in itself, not a means to one.

    Kinda like Iraq, really.

    In this scenario, Dubya the C-Plus Augustus is the 12-year-old sociopath who’s had so much fun kidnapping, torturing, and dismembering the neighbor’s elderly shih-tzu that’s he decided to try the same game with the pit bull who lives down at the end of the block. Because doing Mean Stuff to a really big, well-muscled dog has got to be waay more “fun”, right? And besides, the dozen or so people who seem to share the house with that pit bull seem to have no social cachet whatsoever… they just hang around the porch in their ratty leather jackets most days… and they don’t even have respectable SUVs or sports cars, just a bunch of motorized two-wheelers!

  100. 100.

    David Hunt

    July 10, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Sorry, dude, you’re already toast. Better start carrying Astroglide with you at all times incase you’re suddenly picked up on the street then put in a cell with Ahmed the Giant.

    Nah. If he’s arrested on terrorist charges hand-waving, they won’t allow him any human contact. They can’t allow to terrorist to occupy the same space. They might be able to touch and activate their Wonder-Twin Powers.

  101. 101.

    Punchy

    July 10, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    It was annoying, but harmless.

    Does “it” = Gitmo?

  102. 102.

    Rome Again

    July 10, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    It seems to me that a president should not start a war right before he’s leaving office to strap the other guy with it.

    If Bush wanted war with Iran, he should have done it before now. I think war with Iran is a disaster. I think it will sink this country and I’m glad we haven’t had it so far, but, to think a president who is not going to be in office for more than seven more months should NOT be starting a war, especially after he’s already started two. He’s had his cookies and milk, it’s time for him to take his nap and wait for mommy to pick him up.

  103. 103.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 10, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    those voters think that a stronger more supported israel is in the US’s best interest.

    I can’t even to begin to imagine how.

    well, as much as i’d like to see everyone who supports the war in iraq forbibly relocated from the country

    But, Americans who wanted to attack Iraq wanted to do so because (they claimed) it was in America’s best interest to do so.

  104. 104.

    4tehlulz

    July 10, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    It seems to me that a president should not start a war right before he’s leaving office to strap the other guy with it.

    It is a Bush family tradition, though.

  105. 105.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 10, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    It seems to me that a president should not start a war right before he’s leaving office to strap the other guy with it.

    That’s how you think, and me, and Bill Clinton, but I doubt that’s how a sociopath like Bush thinks.

    I’m currently tutoring an Iranian college student

    What does she look like? I heard Iranian women are hot.

  106. 106.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 10, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    actual individual American Jews are more dovish than organizations like AIPAC.

    American Jewish Commitee, Survey of Jewish Opinion:

    7. Would you support or oppose the United States taking military action against Iran to prevent it from developing nuclear weapons?
    Support 35
    Oppose 57

    poll

    17. In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, or an Independent?
    Republican 15
    Democrat 58
    Independent 26

    http://www.ajc.org/site/c.ijITI2PHKoG/b.3642951/

    etc. etc.

  107. 107.

    John Cole

    July 10, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    If Bush wanted war with Iran, he should have done it before now. I think war with Iran is a disaster. I think it will sink this country and I’m glad we haven’t had it so far, but, to think a president who is not going to be in office for more than seven more months should NOT be starting a war, especially after he’s already started two. He’s had his cookies and milk, it’s time for him to take his nap and wait for mommy to pick him up.

    In fairness to Bush, he only started one war. That motherfucker whose name rhymes with Obama started one of those.

  108. 108.

    Zifnab

    July 10, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Does “it” = Gitmo?

    :p Honestly, I wouldn’t loss any sleep at night. If they tried to arrest every person who has ever tutored an Iranian, we’d have to through all the pot smokers out on the street again for lack of prison space. And if there’s one thing our country tolerates less than Mussy-kissers, it’s those pot smoking DFHs.

    It seems to me that a president should not start a war right before he’s leaving office to strap the other guy with it.

    heh. Yeah, that’s Bush’s biggest problem. He’s not very considerate of the people who have to wade through all the shit he leaves in his wake.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    July 10, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Rome Again Says:

    It seems to me that a president should not start a war right before he’s leaving office to strap the other guy with it.

    If Bush wanted war with Iran, he should have done it before now. I think war with Iran is a disaster. I think it will sink this country and I’m glad we haven’t had it so far, but, to think a president who is not going to be in office for more than seven more months should NOT be starting a war, especially after he’s already started two.

    Congress could put an end to this. They could refuse to appropriate money for an Iran adventure and insist that a war with Iran could only take place with a formal declaration by Congress.

    But they won’t.

    The Republicans have decided that retaining control of the government is more important than anything else, including the Constitution and the lives of American soldiers. Democrats have decided that remaining in office, whether or not they have any power, is more important than anything else.

    American citizens have decided that the illusion of security is more important than anything else.

    By the way, this blockade nonsense seems to be designed to provide a “Gulf of Tonkin” pretext/provocation for a US attack on Iran. But as usual, the Bush Administration looks for multiple “plausible” justifications for its actions, with Condi Rice floating the idea that the US must protect allies and interests in the region.

    And on top of everything, there is the possibility that the recent Iran missile tests may have been partially faked, and that Iranian capabilities are being overstated (In an Iranian Image, a Missile Too Many)

    As news spread across the world of Iran’s provocative missile tests, so did an image of four missiles heading skyward in unison. Unfortunately, it appeared to contain one too many missiles, a point that had not emerged before the photo was used on the front pages of The Los Angeles Times, The Financial Times, The Chicago Tribune and several other newspapers as well as on BBC News, MSNBC, Yahoo! News, NYTimes.com and many other major news Web sites….

    Along with major doubts about the image, American intelligence officials had larger questions on exactly how many missiles were fired. One defense official said that “at least 7, and possibly up to 10″ had taken flight in all, though the intelligence data was still being sorted out. Only one of them was said to be a Shahab 3.

  110. 110.

    Cris

    July 10, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    [Incertus] Bush gets to take himself from probably being the worst President ever to absolutely positively the worst President ever. His legacy is secure!

    He clinched the “worst President ever” mantle a long time ago, so he’s set his sights on “worst world leader ever.” I doubt he’ll make that, but at least he’ll go down swinging.

    [cleek]all Simpsons fans know “unpossible”.

    I think of it as a Zappa word.

  111. 111.

    pinola

    July 10, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    The implications are profoundly depressing. These are the times when you just feel like giving up on your party. Who the fuck wants another war? Let’s give McCain a lil support in his zest to kill Iranians, shall we?

  112. 112.

    pinola

    July 10, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Oh, and I’m sure this will help Obama heaps and heaps while he tries to distinguish himself from a warmonger.

    Yup, excellent work, fuckheads.

  113. 113.

    D. Mason

    July 10, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    What does she look like? I heard Iranian women are hot.

    Iranian women are just like all other women, they range from ridiculously hot to as fugly as is imaginable. Case in point, I used to work for an Iranian guy who was married to the former and whos cousin was married to the later.

  114. 114.

    Rome Again

    July 10, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    In fairness to Bush, he only started one war.

    Wrong, not every terrorist attack leads to a war. Bush chose to go to Afghanistan. bin Ladin did not MAKE Bush go to Afghanistan.

  115. 115.

    ThymeZone

    July 10, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    So we own the Strait of Hormel, where the world’s supply of chili comes from.

    This is why I put you in my Spam folder.

    .

    .

    Goddam, that was funny, if I do say so myself.

  116. 116.

    ThymeZone

    July 10, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Wrong, not every terrorist attack leads to a war.

    That’s right and it’s a good thing …. since terror attacks have gone up worldwide since Bush started his Warren Terra. We’d have wars everywhere. They’d be throwing ice chunks at each other in northern Greenland.

    Well, until Greenland melts and turns …. you know …. green.

  117. 117.

    Rome Again

    July 10, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Well, until Greenland melts and turns … you know … green.

    Are you implying that one day Greenland will be green and Iceland will be icy?

  118. 118.

    Rome Again

    July 10, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Nevermind, it was a global warming reference. DUH! :S

    Speaking of environmental stuff, Bush calls the U.S. the world’s worst polluter!

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