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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / Lost in Translation

Lost in Translation

by John Cole|  July 21, 200812:09 pm| 94 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008

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Pretty pathetic:

For the first time, the McCain campaign is trying to dismiss Maliki’s endorsement of Obama’s troop-withdrawal timeline by questioning the translation — even though a published report in the New York Times convincingly argues that the translation was accurate.

In a conference called just now with reporters, McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann responded to a question about Malik’s comments by citing “the reaction from the Iraqi government, which made it clear that there were apparently some translation problems in the quote, that’s not the position of the prime minister.”

A video for the McCain campaign:

At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

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Reader Interactions

94Comments

  1. 1.

    Gold Star for Robot Boy

    July 21, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Points to the first commenter who spots a winger calling the Iraqis “ungrateful.”

  2. 2.

    calipygian

    July 21, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Well you know, facts have a ….

    Goddamn I’m sick of typing that shit.

  3. 3.

    calipygian

    July 21, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Gold Star –

    You are WAYYYYYYY late for that one

    Andy McCarthy is on his way to Baghdad RIGHT NOW to strangle the life out of that ungrateful motherfucker with HIS BARE HANDS!

  4. 4.

    dslak

    July 21, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Points to the first commenter who spots a winger calling the Iraqis “ungrateful.”

    Win (h/t Instaputz).

  5. 5.

    Xanthippas

    July 21, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Perhaps they can explain how this is mistranslated?

    After talks with Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Monday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki reaffirmed that Iraq wants U.S. combat troops to withdraw from Iraq by the end of 2010, a few months later than Obama had proposed.

    Ali Dabbagh, the prime minister’s spokesman, said Maliki and Obama didn’t discuss specifics during the hour-long meeting. But he said the Iraqi government would like to see all American combat troops out of the country by the end of 2010, a bit later than Obama’s proposal to draw down all combat brigades within 16 months after he’d become president.

    That will perhaps be a little more difficult to spin, won’t it?

  6. 6.

    Jake

    July 21, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    The same dude who said there was a translation error came out today and said the Iraqis would like to have troops out by 2010. He said this in English.

    Meanwhile, check out the latest poll out of Ohio.

    Game over man. Game over!

  7. 7.

    Dreggas

    July 21, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    This past week of news and events has been teh awesome. I can hardly wait to see what happens with regard to the trip Obama is on. Already that is looking really good for him.

    Of course when he gets home he’ll suddenly somehow be french-german-muslim who likes croissants to go with his schnitzel and falafel served on a bed of arugala or something like that.

  8. 8.

    Jake

    July 21, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    The internal memo from the McCain campaign is a heckofa lot more entertaining.

  9. 9.

    Joshua Norton

    July 21, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    He said this in English.

    We’ll no doubt end up hearing how he misquoted himself.

  10. 10.

    gbear

    July 21, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    No matter how obviously wrong he and his people get, McCain will always attract a sympathy vote.

    “Quit picking on that poor old man!” “Obama is mean!” “Liberals just want him to look bad!”

    It won’t matter that his programs are DOA, his advisors all live in well-appointed secret bunkers and that everything he says makes you scratch your head in wonder.

    He’ll be the poor guy that everyone is picking on.

  11. 11.

    Xenos

    July 21, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Ungrateful Arabs!

    Take up the White Man’s burden–
    And reap his old reward:
    The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard–
    The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah, slowly!) toward the light
    “Why brought he us from bondage,
    Our loved Egyptian night?”

  12. 12.

    Shouting at the Rain

    July 21, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    The Surge® has always been NoClue’s hole card, and now that he’s played it nobody cares, and everybody can see it’s all he’s got. He got nuttin’.

    Meanwhile, with his (really brilliant) Mideast/Euro extravapalooza Obama has drawn an ace-high straight. I do believe we finally have a Dem who knows how to play the game.

    Best poker face in politics right now…

  13. 13.

    The Moar You Know

    July 21, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    I was wondering the same thing myself. John McCain can’t be this bad. I know he’s a gooper, and old – but come on, he can’t possibly be this incompetent.

    I honestly think he’s being set up to take a dive (go on, John, talk about how Social Security is a bad idea – all our polling says this will be a win!). Which, if true, means things are about to get real bad here in the good ol’ U.S. of A.

  14. 14.

    4tehlulz

    July 21, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    McCain’s response is going to be to stick his fingers in his ears and yell LA LA LA CANT HEAR YOUUUUUUUUUU CUZ I WAS A POW.

  15. 15.

    Jake

    July 21, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    This past week of news and events has been teh awesome. I can hardly wait to see what happens with regard to the trip Obama is on. Already that is looking really good for him.

    It really is too good to be true so far. The concern here is that if Obama does or says anything that can be even remotely considered a gaffe, that is what the MSM will harp on and make THE STORY from this trip.

  16. 16.

    Joshua Norton

    July 21, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    He’ll be the poor guy that everyone is picking on.

    Mainly because the corporate media only focuses on the vast culture significance of the last 15 minutes.

    I believe Eric Idle coined a phrase for this once. Micropaleoanthropologist. It sounds like a more polite way of saying “a bunch of lazy, ignorant schmucks”.

  17. 17.

    numbskull

    July 21, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    John, John, John,

    Dude, you came over from the other side a while ago, so you should understand what’s going on in this situation by now. McCrank doesn’t care if he’s wrong on any particular topic. He knows that if facts on the ground are counter to his position, he (or surrogates) just need to float enough turds in the bowl to slightly confuse the issue. Once he or surrogates toss something out there, the 20% dead-enders run with it. Even when the press tepidly reports on the inconsistency or just flat-out WRONGNESS, it won’t last long. We’ll be off to the next uncomfortable truth with wingnut haziness tossed into the salad. Rinse. Repeat.

    For more depression, imagine if Obama made just ONE of these floaters. Just one. The coverage would be 24/7 through November.

  18. 18.

    The Moar You Know

    July 21, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    That will perhaps be a little more difficult to spin, won’t it?

    You really underestimate who you’re dealing with here, if you think such things as “reality”, “evidence” or “truth” would slow them down for a second.

  19. 19.

    TCG

    July 21, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Andy McCarthy is on his way to Baghdad RIGHT NOW to strangle the life out of that ungrateful motherfucker with HIS BARE HANDS!

    This guy is one seriously screwed up wingnut.

  20. 20.

    Gregory

    July 21, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    The so-called “surge” was an obvious effort to punt the implosion of Iraq to the next President (and I really don’t think Bush gives a dman whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican). Check out wingnut comments over the last year or two, up to and including McSame’s “the surge worked!” mantra, and it’s obvious the Dolchstosslegende is being sharpened up.

    The same is true for the looming economic meltdown — the fit really hits the shan in 2009, and the Democrats telling America to eat their vegetables (as opposed to the GOP’s tax-cuts-in-perpetuity plan) won’t make them popular with low-information voters. Needless to say the so-called “liberal media” won’t remember anything from Bush’s two terms when relaying the he-said, she-said.

    The Repulbicans have depended on the Democrats to clean up their messes since Herbert Hoover’s day at least.

  21. 21.

    Napoleon

    July 21, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Hey John,

    Netroots Nation will be in Pittsburgh next year, so no excuse for you not to show.

  22. 22.

    El Cid

    July 21, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    To be fair, the New York Times did not so much “convincingly argue” that the translation was correct; the paper printed the literal translation from the original interview audio recording, and also quoted der Spiegel.

    Someone literate in English ought then to have had the capacity to match the two up.

    Only the ‘MOON LANDINGS WERE FAKED’ current day right wing can try to make hay of that in the meantime.

  23. 23.

    Dreggas

    July 21, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    Jake Says:

    This past week of news and events has been teh awesome. I can hardly wait to see what happens with regard to the trip Obama is on. Already that is looking really good for him.

    It really is too good to be true so far. The concern here is that if Obama does or says anything that can be even remotely considered a gaffe, that is what the MSM will harp on and make THE STORY from this trip.

    I just don’t see that happening. Look at the photo’s and reports so far. I mean, yeah I am an Obama supporter and I am biased, however Obama looks DAMN good and real comfortable meeting with these leaders etc.

  24. 24.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 21, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    McCain thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border; Bush didn’t know Social Security was a federal program. McCain jokes about killing Iranian civillians; Bush joked about a death row inmates please for clemency. Etc. etc. etc.

    WE’VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. Don’t get your hopes up.

  25. 25.

    The Thinking Man's Mel Torme

    July 21, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    You really underestimate who you’re dealing with here, if you think such things as “reality”, “evidence” or “truth” would slow them down for a second.

    Actually, he grossly overestimates the audience. I’m deep into Perlstein’s “Nixonland,” and it’s hard not give up in despair. El Dicko was the dark genesis of what’s now called Rovian politics; at the very least, he was the first to put the pieces together in a modern media environment. In short, logic, compassion, and common sense are nothing compared to resentment, bigotry, and fear. If McCain had two of three of Nixon’s total amorality, insane ambition, and determination, he’d win in a walk.

  26. 26.

    Zifnab

    July 21, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    The same is true for the looming economic meltdown—the fit really hits the shan in 2009, and the Democrats telling America to eat their vegetables (as opposed to the GOP’s tax-cuts-in-perpetuity plan) won’t make them popular with low-information voters.

    That is another delicious irony. Barack Obama (like Al Gore before him) plans to cut taxes for lower income individuals. Lower income, in this case, is defined as people making less than $250k / year.

    It is going to be really, really hard to brand Democrats as the Tax-‘n-Spend liberals of yesteryear when they actually pass a taxcut for all the people who got left out of the Bush boondoggle.

    Sure, some people are going to be pissed by the end of the first Obama term, but it won’t be for his economic policy. Even the poor, low-information voter knows when he’s lost his house and how much he’s forking over to the IRS.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    July 21, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    For the first time, the McCain campaign is trying to dismiss Maliki’s endorsement of Obama’s troop-withdrawal timeline by questioning the translation—even though a published report in the New York Times convincingly argues that the translation was accurate.

    The sad thing is, the first thing that came to my mind after reading that is If they talk fast enough, they’ll convince a lot of stupid people that they’re right. Especially if the Media repeats their lies long and often enough.

  28. 28.

    Steven Taylor

    July 21, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    The amazing thing is that the Der Spiegel translation issue is moot, since this morning an Iraqi government spokesman reiterated the same idea. See here.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    July 21, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    I know he’s a gooper, and old – but come on, he can’t possibly be this incompetent.

    George Bush.

    Ronald Reagan.

    Donald Rumsfield.

    Condi Rice

    I rest my case.

  30. 30.

    Punchy

    July 21, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    You guys outta see the mess that’s developing over at TalkLeft. It seems that BTD is actually becoming an Obama supporter, but since he walked so many people so far over the cliff this spring, he can’t reel them back in. He’s actually correcting and admonishing his commenters for posting insane shit. That’s right — the same shit we would have posted in April (that would have gotten us banned) is now Armando’s talking points in July.

    Too funny.

  31. 31.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    July 21, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    The so-called “surge” was an obvious effort to punt the implosion of Iraq to the next President (and I really don’t think Bush gives a dman whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican). Check out wingnut comments over the last year or two, up to and including McSame’s “the surge worked!” mantra, and it’s obvious the Dolchstosslegende is being sharpened up.

    The same is true for the looming economic meltdown—the fit really hits the shan in 2009, and the Democrats telling America to eat their vegetables (as opposed to the GOP’s tax-cuts-in-perpetuity plan) won’t make them popular with low-information voters. Needless to say the so-called “liberal media” won’t remember anything from Bush’s two terms when relaying the he-said, she-said.

    Bingo! We have a winner.

    “The Plan”, insofar as it exists, isn’t for McCain to tank this election. The Plan is to shave Obama’s margin of victory down as much as possible (with help from a media which will crawl all over itself asking: Why couldn’t Obama put McCain away? when he wins by only say 3 percent, as compared with the Bush landslide in 2000), so as to deny him a mandate for change and make it possible for the GOP spend the next 4 years sabotaging anything and everything the Dems try to do. They won’t be able to pass so much as a paen to Mother’s Day in the Senate without 61 votes, and the GOP and the media will repeat the phrase “Obama recession” so many times your ears will bleed.

    They want this to be 1976 all over again, with Obama being set up as the next Jimmy Carter. Dolchstosslegende + Horrible Economy = GOP victory in 2012, and they don’t care if they have to destroy this country in order to get what they want.

  32. 32.

    Scandi

    July 21, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    It’s completely possible that they’re setting themselves up to lose this election; it’s good for the brand.

    They’ll claim that Bush/McCain weren’t “real” conservatives and then have 4-8 years to blame everything that’s gone wrong in the last 7 years on Obama. Gin up a scandal at the end of his term and they can make a roaring comeback and pretend they’re saving the day.

  33. 33.

    Tsulagi

    July 21, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    After talks with Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Monday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki reaffirmed that Iraq wants U.S. combat troops to withdraw from Iraq by the end of 2010

    That date, end of 2010, matches up with that used by the head of Obama’s Iraq working group, Colin Kahl, in a policy paper he wrote in March for the center-left think tank, Center for a New American Security. To meet Obama’s pledge of withdrawing all “combat” troops, Kahl envisioned 60k to 80k troops remaining at the end of 2010 in advisory, training, reconstruction, and support roles. Then continuing at that level to provide “sustainable stability” for Iraq for an indeterminate period.

    The stuff coming from Maliki the past week or so almost sounds like it was taken from Kahl’s latest CNAS paper, Shaping the Iraqi Inheritance. Doesn’t really matter, greatest force for getting us out of Iraq is Iran through Maliki and the Iraqi government.

  34. 34.

    Dork

    July 21, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    But not only did Dabbagh fail to explain specifically what Spiegel had supposedly gotten wrong in its rendering of the interview, which is on tape. The Times further reports:

    Andrew McCarthy’s writing at his finest. Cut and pasted verbatim from his NR article. This wouldn’t pass 2rd grade, BTW.

  35. 35.

    Rosali

    July 21, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Call it what you want but everyone knows that a time horizon = timeline.

  36. 36.

    pharniel

    July 21, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    scandi – unless of course things get SOO bad new deal style options seem like a really good plan, then they are just fucked, at least short term.

    also i think setting up mack daddy mcpow might be a bad plan. he’s prolly still sore about 2k, and if he ever relaizes that he’s beign setup the bomb, he might be enough of a vindictive fuck to piss on all the downticket people as well, giving the dems 60+ and making The Plan fail miserably.

  37. 37.

    Jake

    July 21, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    You guys outta see the mess that’s developing over at TalkLeft.

    I’m pretty sure I lose brain cells when I read the posts over there. I fear that mind-numbing stupidity is contagious.

  38. 38.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    July 21, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    If they talk fast enough, they’ll convince a lot of stupid people that they’re right. Especially if the Media repeats their lies long and often enough.

    If you have high blood pressure, please don’t read this, it might push you over the edge:

    Rasmussen Reports Poll: belief growing that reporters are trying to help obama win

    The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey found that 49% of voters believe most reporters will try to help Obama with their coverage, up from 44% a month ago.

    Just 14% believe most reporters will try to help John McCain win

    …

    A plurality of Democrats—37%– say most reporters try to offer unbiased coverage of the campaign. Twenty-seven percent (27%) believe most reporters are trying to help Obama and 21% in Obama’s party think reporters are trying to help McCain.

    Among Republicans, 78% believe reporters are trying to help Obama and 10% see most offering unbiased coverage.

    As for unaffiliated voters, 50% see a pro-Obama bias and 21% see unbiased coverage. Just 12% of those not affiliated with either major party believe the reporters are trying to help McCain.

    That’s right – the problem with this election is that the media isn’t being kind enough to John McCain. More BBQ, stat!

    h/t TPM Election Central

  39. 39.

    David Hunt

    July 21, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    It is going to be really, really hard to brand Democrats as the Tax-’n-Spend liberals of yesteryear when they actually pass a taxcut for all the people who got left out of the Bush boondoggle.

    Is that some sort of ironic metahumor? Even if he and Congress managed to cut taxes on every taxable entity in the U.S. while simultaneously cutting spending to balance the budget, they’d call them Tax-‘n-Spend liberals. Being a Democrat definitionally makes you a liberal who wants to raise taxes.

    As a side note, Tax & Spend economic policies (as defined by Republican scare-mongers) have their problems, but I still find them still infinitely preferable to the Borrow & Spend policy that we’ve got in place right now. I have a hard time accepting that the Republicans actually believe the lower taxes = higher revenue line so I’m at a loss for how they thought that bill would never come due. My best guess is that they thought the natural growth rate of the economy would always keep us ahead of disaster. Thoughts?

  40. 40.

    Punchy

    July 21, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    The same dude who said there was a translation error came out today and said the Iraqis would like to have troops out by 2010. He said this in English.

    Stoopid bat. That means it was re-retranslated from English to Arabic, back to Farsi, changed into Sanskrit before morphing into Braille. Then when the deaf guy tried to read the bumps and interpret it to the autistic guy taking notes with his left hand underwater, it suddenly became wrong. Just shut up, that’s why.

  41. 41.

    srv

    July 21, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Why do they hate the children? Because a private provider didn’t think it could profit enough, Rochester transit started their own routes. The administration isn’t going to have any of that:

    The Federal Transit Administration last month closed its comment period on a new regulation that will cut off federal funding for bus routes that it believes primarily exist to get children to and from school. Under the new rules, a school system could subsidize a child’s bus ride on public transit, but a public bus system could not significantly order its routes or schedules for the convenience of these children.

    What does DougJ do for a living that he can’t be bothered with the children in his home town?

  42. 42.

    NR

    July 21, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ, you have it right. I do think the Republicans want to win this election, but if they can’t, what you’ve described is a perfectly acceptable plan B for them. Spend the next four years blocking everything the Dems want to do, prevent them from cleaning up Bush’s mess, and then ride to the rescue in 2012 under the banner of the man called Petraeus. And the whole process starts all over again.

  43. 43.

    Zifnab

    July 21, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Among Republicans, 78% believe reporters are trying to help Obama and 10% see most offering unbiased coverage.

    That’s right – the problem with this election is that the media isn’t being kind enough to John McCain. More BBQ, stat!

    The poll is somewhat skewed by stupid in this case. Firstly, keep in mind how the poll was balanced. If they were looking to even out the number of GOoPers and Dems, that 78% wingnut stock leans heavy on the scale. Even if they divided things by standard trend lines, I can see how overwhelming party bias could tip the scale. I’d love to see the same numbers for McCain.

    Secondly, people already cheering for Obama aren’t going to necessarily read this media bias as a bad thing. These numbers don’t really “hurt” Obama, they just hurt any claims by Obama that the media is biased against him. Since the GOP is the party that has taken “media bias” as a party platform, Obama need only ignore the perception and the bias and no one will be calling him a hypocrite for complaining about something that clashes with their perception.

    This isn’t a problem except for the media itself. It’s attempt to portray its coverage as unbiased and balanced has been a flop. Everyone assumes that the anchors or the broadcasters or the sponsors have an agenda. And they’d be right.

  44. 44.

    Ricky

    July 21, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Emerald City— Statement by Lt.Col. Boots DeGround, 7th Cavalry Div., Geoffrey’s Battalion:

    Statements attributed to Nouri “Al” Maliki, that he felt Obama’s 16 month withdrawal timetable were reasonable, have been officially withdrawn by the Iraqi Govt. as per orders of Maj. General Time Horizon, CENTCOM. Reason for withdrawal, inaccurate translation by Iraqi aide to PM Maliki. In future, reference only official statements issued by Reconciled Baathist Minister of Information, Baghdad Bob.

    We thank the American Networks for their past cooptation, and wish you a happy apirational goal.

  45. 45.

    Punchy

    July 21, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    so I’m at a loss for how they thought that bill would never come due. My best guess is that they thought the natural growth rate of the economy would always keep us ahead of disaster. Thoughts?

    My pops is a die-hard Republican, and here’s his words: He believes, that as the strongest, most militarily-advanced nation on the planet (his words), that we don’t have to pay anyone back. Seriously. That nobody can kneecap us on overdue IOUs cuz nobody’s strong enough to force us to.

    THATS how they feel they can Borrow-n-Spend to infinity. It’s the Nelson Muntz Fiscal Policy Plan.

  46. 46.

    Ricky

    July 21, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Punchy says “That means it was re-retranslated from English to Arabic, back to Farsi, changed into Sanskrit before morphing into Braille. Then when the deaf guy tried to read the bumps and interpret it to the autistic guy taking notes with his left hand underwater, it suddenly became wrong.”

    Punchy translated into Wingnut: Hate…America…lose…war…Panama…birth…canal…certificate…Lieberman…loserman…class…bandwidth…must.

  47. 47.

    Face

    July 21, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    You want fiscal responsibility? Uncle Sam’s gunna give y’all broke mooks mo’ money

  48. 48.

    Atlliberal

    July 21, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    “At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?”

    I think it’s safe to assume that the Republicans don’t want to win ANYTHING this election cycle, so they can blame the monstrous mess they made on the Democrats and win in 2 or 4 years. If the Dems have control over the House, Senate and Presidency, the Republicans will point to that and say see they can’t do it either!Of course this is because they don’t think the mess can actually be fixed. They are counting on the Dems to be at least as incompetent as they are.

  49. 49.

    w vincentz

    July 21, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    I just saw the McCain advertisement wherein he blames, yes, BLAMES Obama for the rising price of gasoline.
    I’m not kidding.
    It saddens me to think that there are actually idiots that will vote for Johnnie McLiar because they believe it.
    i-d-i-o-t-s !

  50. 50.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    July 21, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    He believes, that as the strongest, most militarily-advanced nation on the planet (his words), that we don’t have to pay anyone back. Seriously. That nobody can kneecap us on overdue IOUs cuz nobody’s strong enough to force us to.

    Has Pops ever heard of something called the British Empire? The folks who used to be “strongest, most militarily-advanced nation on the planet” until they spent (and then borrowed) so much money standing up against the Germans that we foreclosed on their asses?

  51. 51.

    Delia

    July 21, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    I think it’s safe to assume that the Republicans don’t want to win ANYTHING this election cycle, so they can blame the monstrous mess they made on the Democrats and win in 2 or 4 years. If the Dems have control over the House, Senate and Presidency, the Republicans will point to that and say see they can’t do it either!Of course this is because they don’t think the mess can actually be fixed. They are counting on the Dems to be at least as incompetent as they are.

    Well, yeah. And I believe the current economic meltdown, if in fact it exists outside the minds of the beholders, is still Bill Clinton’s fault.

  52. 52.

    The Other Steve

    July 21, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Personally I like the National Reviews take.

    Maliki is an Iran stooge!

  53. 53.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    July 21, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    I’ve been saying this since before the primaries. I can’t imagine any sane Republican wanting to be saddled the mess this administration is leaving behind. Leave it to the Democrats to deal with, then get all the GOP water-carriers in the MSM to start bleating when the Dems fail to completely reverse the last 8 years of mischief within the first week of 2009.

    Seriously, the best the GOP could do in 2008 was McCain, Huckabee, Rudy, Grandpa Fred, Ron, Mittens, Brownback, and Tancredo? Really?

  54. 54.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    July 21, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Seriously, the best the GOP could do in 2008 was McCain, Huckabee, Rudy, Grandpa Fred, Ron, Mittens, Brownback, and Tancredo? Really?

    Jeb was feeling bushed.
    4 years of rest will do him good.

  55. 55.

    Napoleon

    July 21, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    That nobody can kneecap us on overdue IOUs cuz nobody’s strong enough to force us to.

    While that maybe true, it ignores the fact that when they quit lending, and no one can make them lend us money, the whole house of card collapses.

  56. 56.

    4tehlulz

    July 21, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Hey Punchy, ask your father what we did to Britain in ’56 when they wouldn’t stop dicking around in the Suez.

    Hint: It wasn’t a threat of a nuclear attack that forced them to cut the bullshit.

    We’re the new Britain.

  57. 57.

    NewUnansweredQuestions

    July 21, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    I doubt it, although anything is possible with these people as we have learned in recent years.

    What’s more likely is that they are just in EpicFlail mode, waving their arms and stamping their feet to distract the lenses and microphones from the impressive trip that Obama is having and from the unmitigated trainwreck of a week that the Magoo campaign is having.

    Remember, their base believes anything, anything at all. What’s so hard about a “missed translation” to people who think the earth is 6000 years old, Saddam Hussein caused 911, and Teri Schiavo was one turkey-avocado wrap away from writing her memoirs?

  58. 58.

    maxbaer (not the original)

    July 21, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Well, the Obama campaign does have the advantage of being based in reality.

  59. 59.

    Dreggas

    July 21, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    They want this to be 1976 all over again, with Obama being set up as the next Jimmy Carter. Dolchstosslegende + Horrible Economy = GOP victory in 2012, and they don’t care if they have to destroy this country in order to get what they want.

    Difference is, Obama isn’t a southern baptist or peanut farmer. They won’t get away with it unchallenged.

  60. 60.

    joe

    July 21, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    No, they’re not trying to throw it.

    This is First and Goal from the 1-inch line for Obama, and the McCain campaign is sending the house because a million to one chance is better than nothing.

  61. 61.

    Punchy

    July 21, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Hey Punchy, ask your father what we did to Britain in ‘56 when they wouldn’t stop dicking around in the Suez.

    I said it was his argument. I never said it was logical, reasonable, or self-sustainable. He listens to an unhealthy amount of Rush, so apparently this is where he’s getting these attitudes.

  62. 62.

    NewUnansweredQuestions

    July 21, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Maybe the real Unanswered Question (c) here is how often Maliki has tried to tell the potatoheads that he wants to talk about a timetable, and our government has just ignored him because they didn’t want to blow their talking points?

  63. 63.

    Face

    July 21, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    On Afghanistan, McCain said, “I’ve always said it’s long and tough and hard.”

    As to Iraq, “We’ve succeeded. We’re not succeeding, we’ve succeeded,” McCain said later at a fundraiser.

    Here’s what I don’t get. Isn’t the completely obvious–strike that, necessary–follow-up question something like, “OK, if we’ve won, why aren’t the troops coming home?”?

    Isn’t it wholly illogical to claim that our troops need to stay until things get better, but then turn around and state–unequivocally–that we’ve already won…as in, game over? IOW, we’re there cuz we haven’t won yet, but we’re also there because we’ve won already?

    Hmmmm……

  64. 64.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    July 21, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Difference is, Obama isn’t a southern baptist or peanut farmer. They won’t get away with it unchallenged.

    Agreed. OTOH, the problems we face at this point are much more daunting than in 1976. If Obama can pull us out of the dumpster that Bush, Greenspan, et. al. have created in addition to dealing with larger and longer time scale problems like global warming and peak oil, he will deserve to be regarded as one of our finest Presidents. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but them’s mightly long odds, IMHO.

  65. 65.

    TheFountainHead

    July 21, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    He listens to an unhealthy amount of Rush, so apparently this is where he’s getting these attitudes.

    Heh. Listening to an “unhealthy amount” of Rush is like saying you swallowed and “unhealthy amount” of plutonium.

  66. 66.

    Martin

    July 21, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Seriously, the best the GOP could do in 2008 was McCain, Huckabee, Rudy, Grandpa Fred, Ron, Mittens, Brownback, and Tancredo? Really?

    Really. Who else would be better and still stand a snowballs chance in hell of navigating through the GOP purity committees? You need someone who is at least three of the following: rabidly pro-war, pro-Jesus/anti-gay, anti-brown-people, anti-tax/anti-regulation. And you have to be anti-Roe and strongly pro-gun. McCain was willing to flop himself into that guy – and nobody else was in a convincing way. Mittens came close, but people didn’t buy the act. Huckabee came up a category short and got clobbered.

    It’s hard to find people willing to double-down on failed principles for the sake of getting elected – and that’s what you need to do with who the GOP has shaped their voter base to be. Remember, they kicked most of you guys out. McCain is only doing as well as he is because some people are so desperate for their anti-homo, etc. candidate that they will see what they want to see in him and ignore the contradictory stuff. And he’s more willing than ever to get into whatever position the voters want because it’s literally do-or-die for him.

    So, it’s not that they are trying to hang this on the Dems hoping that voters will see things differently in 4 years – because that actually never happens. Voters work on momentum and if voters are more optimistic about things in 4 years than they are today (even if conditions on the ground are worse) then they’ll keep the Dems in power.

    The GOP of today is fully locked into their ideology because they locked their ideology to specific groups of voters. They don’t know how to fix that. They don’t know what voters to pander to now to win them back from the Dems. And they’re too chickenshit to change their principles without knowing which voters will come along for the ride, so they keep pushing the same old stuff. Problem is that the really smart guys know that it won’t work anymore, and rather than look like a loser, they just stay out of it. So you get the 2nd stringers that are willing to take the risk, or who are too dumb to realize, or who are willing to pander to whoever comes along.

  67. 67.

    Calouste

    July 21, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Hint: It wasn’t a threat of a nuclear attack that forced them to cut the bullshit.

    We’re the new Britain.

    And China is the new US. But Saudi-Arabia is still the old Saudi-Arabia.

  68. 68.

    NewUnansweredQuestions

    July 21, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    How insane can the Magooniacs be to believe that a “mistranslation” might have happened here, when Obama himself has just sat down with Maliki and knows exactly what the man wants? And has witnesses?

    UPI:

    Obama, D-Ill., who has a lock on his party’s presidential nomination, hit Iraq running Monday morning. He met with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in Baghdad and discussed his 16-month plan to fully withdraw all U.S. combat forces.

    It seems to me that the Magooniks are throwing themselves down the well here. Which makes “throwing the election” seem an odd solution. Magoo himself is mouthing the insanest version of these events. He would have to be in on the joke if this were about an election being thrown.

    The Iraqi government boosted Barack Obama’s election chances today by publicly backing during his visit to Baghdad his timetable for withdrawal of all US combat troops by 2010.

    The main Iraqi government spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh, speaking after Obama met the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, told reporters: “We cannot give any timetables or dates but the Iraqi government believes the end of 2010 is the appropriate time for the withdrawal of forces.”

    He added a caveat that if violence, which the US and Iraqi governments say has fallen by 85% over compared with this time last year, was to worsen then the Iraqis will rethink their plan.

    Obama, who described talks with Maliki as “very constructive,” is proposing that all US combat troops be out of Iraq by April 2010. There are 156,000 US troops in Iraq and Kuwait at present but only about a third are combat troops and Obama has avoided putting a figure on how many of the other troops will be left in Iraq.

    McCain told NBC today that the reduction in violence vindicated his push last year for an increase in US troop levels, a move that Obama opposed at the time. “I hope he will have a chance to admit that he badly misjudged the situation and he was wrong,” McCain said.

    McCain’s spokeswoman, Nancy Pfotenhauer, denied that the Iraqi government’s support for a 2010 timetable undermined him.

    “We should be able to draw down troops as soon as conditions on the ground make that the right thing to do,” she said, noting that McCain had said last month he envisaged troops being withdrawn by 2013.

    She added that McCain would make the decision based not on what suits his election campaign but on the advice of US commanders on the ground told him at the time.

    Guardian, UK.

    Amazing. I don’t remember ever seeing anything like this before in a presidential campaign season.

    Rather that surmise that the GOP is throwing the election, I’d suggest it’s more likely that they’ll try to throw McCain’s nomination before the convention.

  69. 69.

    Dreggas

    July 21, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    What no post today on “Tittygate”?

    I can see the outrage “Mr. Obama are you for or against titties?”

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    July 21, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Punchy Says:

    so I’m at a loss for how they thought that bill would never come due. My best guess is that they thought the natural growth rate of the economy would always keep us ahead of disaster. Thoughts?

    My pops is a die-hard Republican, and here’s his words: He believes, that as the strongest, most militarily-advanced nation on the planet (his words), that we don’t have to pay anyone back. Seriously. That nobody can kneecap us on overdue IOUs cuz nobody’s strong enough to force us to.

    Your father is apparently unaware of the ineffable wisdom of the Godfather of Soul, James Brown:

    Get ready that’s a fact,
    Get ready you Mother for the big payback

  71. 71.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 21, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    McCain on the “Today” show this morning

    Viera: If the Maliki government were to say, if you were President, “We want a timetable for troops being removed,” what would you say to that?
    McCain: I’ve been there too many times. I’ve met too many times with them and I know what they want. They want it based on conditions…”

    See: they may say that they want us out by 2010 but, Johnny knows better. They want what he wants. Sounds like the British, back in the day: “Filthy WOGS. If we left they’d beg us to come back.”

  72. 72.

    Face

    July 21, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Seriously, the best the GOP could do in 2008 was McCain, Huckabee, Rudy, Grandpa Fred, Ron, Mittens, Brownback, and Tancredo? Really?

    Fuck all of you, ya’ damn forgetful liberal, Mexy-loving gay abortionists!

    Signed,
    Duncan Hunter

  73. 73.

    w vincentz

    July 21, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Dreggas,
    It really is a shame, a SHAME, I tell ya, that women are so repressed from showing their mammaries. Most sane cultures do not impose this crazy “morality” on their females.
    The fact that the fucking government can dictate what a woman can and cannot show of her own body is indicative of the sick and repressive “society” in which we live.
    Bring ’em on!

  74. 74.

    Dreggas

    July 21, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    w vincentz Says:

    Dreggas,
    It really is a shame, a SHAME, I tell ya, that women are so repressed from showing their mammaries. Most sane cultures do not impose this crazy “morality” on their females.
    The fact that the fucking government can dictate what a woman can and cannot show of her own body is indicative of the sick and repressive “society” in which we live.
    Bring ‘em on!

    well, we figured when we started this whole war on terra’ thing that we’d just adopt all the things that the terrorists wanted us to adopt. I mean hell we’ve gone down their path toward a totalitarian gov’t heavily influenced by a major religion complete with outrage if a woman shows anything but her head. Why not?

  75. 75.

    w vincentz

    July 21, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Yup, totalitarian.
    I wonder if “Fall fashion” wear at Macy’s will include bhurkas? (sp)

  76. 76.

    montysano

    July 21, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Maybe the real Unanswered Question© here is how often Maliki has tried to tell the potatoheads that he wants to talk about a timetable, and our government has just ignored him because they didn’t want to blow their talking points?

    What is this “leaving Iraq” of which you all speak? What does “leaving Iraq” mean? We’re building dozens of “enduring” (NOT permanent, dammit!) military bases and the largest embassy in the world.

    Last fall, BO’s campaign said:

    “Barack Obama is against permanent bases in Iraq. He will not seek them. He will not build them. We will not have permanent bases in Iraq if Barack Obama is President.”

    If he has reiterated that recently, I can’t find it. I’ve supported BO wholeheartedly through FISA, etc, but a reversal on the permanent bases would be tough to swallow.

    Would “enduring” bases that are already built be allowed to stand after 1/20/2009?

  77. 77.

    Dennis - SGMM

    July 21, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Would “enduring” bases that are already built be allowed to stand after 1/20/2009?

    We built that nice, big airbase at Camh Ranh Bay in 1965. It’s still standing – it’s just that somebody else is using it.

  78. 78.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    July 21, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Fuck all of you, ya’ damn forgetful liberal, Mexy-loving gay abortionists!

    Signed,
    Duncan Hunter

    I knew I was forgetting someone.

    Problem is that the really smart guys know that it won’t work anymore, and rather than look like a loser, they just stay out of it. So you get the 2nd stringers that are willing to take the risk, or who are too dumb to realize, or who are willing to pander to whoever comes along.

    Our reasoning is different, but that’s pretty much the statement I was trying to make; there are people in the GOP who would have been stronger, more compelling candidates than what we wound up with, but for whatever reason they’re not running this time around.

  79. 79.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    July 21, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    Jeb was feeling bushed.
    4 years of rest will do him good.

    I’m always in favor of licking bush.

    We built that nice, big airbase at Camh Ranh Bay in 1965. It’s still standing – it’s just that somebody else is using it.

    Heh. American exceptionalism at its finest. Everyone, except the American taxpayers, benefit from our tax dollars being spent overseas.

  80. 80.

    Jake

    July 21, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Anyone been following the “non-story” that the NYT has refused to publish McCain’s attack piece on Obama and Iraq?

    I know this would be a first, but I’m wondering if Team McCain hasn’t actually played this extremely well. Consider:

    He’s written an op-ed piece that attacks Obama in just about every paragraph, if not sentence. The NYT rejects the piece, asking instead for the Senator to submit something that outlines his plans for Iraq. Given that this was their original request, perhaps the rejection could have been easily anticipated.

    The McCain campaign protests, claiming bias. Major news outlets pick up the “story” that the NYT won’t accept an op-ed piece from McCain. The original op-ed is published by CNN.

    McCain will now have a second opportunity to publish a piece outlining his views. In the meantime, the original piece will get way more coverage than it ever would have in the first place.

  81. 81.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    July 21, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Oh my f**king god, Jon Chait has a column about how much he likes John McCain–and the title is “Old Flame”.

    http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=5cb3eef3-11b5-4ab2-baf4-f5f78b26a889

    “Senator McCain, I can’t quit you!”

  82. 82.

    Face

    July 21, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Would “enduring” bases that are already built be allowed to stand after 1/20/2009?

    Ya know, ordinarily I’d say we should get out of Iraq and have no bases there. But we spent almost 600 MILLION on (I think) the Embassy alone (or was that for all of ’em?). I mean…cant we stay a few years just to get our money’s worth of the pool, some BK Whoppers, and a few hot Iraqi secretaries? I mean….600 mill stucture(s) is a lot of coin to just hand over to a bunch of rookies, eh?

  83. 83.

    Zifnab

    July 21, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Oh my f**king god, Jon Chait has a column about how much he likes John McCain—and the title is “Old Flame”.

    Further evidence that the higher you climb on the GOP ladder, the more likely you are to turn into a flaming homosexual. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  84. 84.

    Zifnab

    July 21, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    I mean…cant we stay a few years just to get our money’s worth of the pool, some BK Whoppers, and a few hot Iraqi secretaries? I mean….600 mill stucture(s) is a lot of coin to just hand over to a bunch of rookies, eh?

    Really, I think that whole “getting our moneys worth” ship has kinda sailed.

    Behold! Your tax dollars at work!

    The first signs of trouble, according to the cable, emerged when the kitchen staff tried to cook the inaugural meal in the new guard base on May 15. Some appliances did not work. Workers began to get electric shocks. Then a burning smell enveloped the kitchen as the wiring began to melt.

    All the food from the old guard camp — a collection of tents — had been carted to the new facility, in the expectation that the 1,200 guards would begin moving in the next day. But according to the cable, the electrical meltdown was just the first problem in a series of construction mistakes that soon left the base uninhabitable, including wiring problems, fuel leaks and noxious fumes in the sleeping trailers.

    “Poor quality construction . . . life safety issues . . . left [the embassy] with no recourse but to shut the camp down, in spite of the blistering heat in Baghdad,” the May 29 cable informed Washington.

  85. 85.

    The Moar You Know

    July 21, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Oh my f**king god, Jon Chait has a column about how much he likes John McCain—and the title is “Old Flame”.

    NOT GAY

  86. 86.

    jvill

    July 21, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Notorious P.A.T. Says: McCain thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border; Bush didn’t know Social Security was a federal program. McCain jokes about killing Iranian civillians; Bush joked about a death row inmates please for clemency. Etc. etc. etc.

    My favorite story of this genre is how the Republicants often refer to the all those supposed shitty federal employees, yet constantly surround themselves with the military. Who, you know, are also federal employees.

    Reminder to the Media: Don’t break the narrative!

  87. 87.

    OriGuy

    July 21, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    We built that nice, big airbase at Camh Ranh BayAl Kharj, Saudi Arabia in 19651991. It’s still standing – it’s just that somebody else is using it.

    Updated.

  88. 88.

    w vincentz

    July 21, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Oh Chait!
    Gosh golly.
    I’m at a lack of words other than to say that I really like anuses. Some of my very best friends have them.
    Yup John, I really, really, REALLY like assholes.
    That’s why I like you Jon Chait…shait.

  89. 89.

    Gus

    July 21, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    That’s right – the problem with this election is that the media isn’t being kind enough to John McCain.

    I watched a bit of Howard Kurtz’s show Sunday, and David Frum was absolutely fucking hammering that point home. They’re continuing to throw shit at the wall to see what will stick. I’m curious to see if this bullshit will be what they go with.

  90. 90.

    Tsulagi

    July 21, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    I mean…cant we stay a few years just to get our money’s worth of the pool, some BK Whoppers, and a few hot Iraqi secretaries? I mean….600 mill stucture(s) is a lot of coin to just hand over to a bunch of rookies, eh?

    Really, I think that whole “getting our moneys worth” ship has kinda sailed.

    Sailed, picked up steam going over the horizon, left Earth orbit, last seen passing Pluto. Would have got more value from those cash bricks if used for home heating.

    Would “enduring” bases that are already built be allowed to stand after 1/20/2009?

    We built that nice, big airbase at Camh Ranh Bay in 1965. It’s still standing – it’s just that somebody else is using it.

    No worries about that in Iraq. They’re into recycling. Like this base the British turned over to Iraqi provincial and ISF control. Everything carted off within a couple of days right down to the bricks as helpful IAs and police watched. Pretty much the model for every base Britain has turned over.

  91. 91.

    Bill Arnold

    July 21, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    My best guess is that they thought the natural growth rate of the economy would always keep us ahead of disaster. Thoughts?

    How about hyperinflation to shrink the debt?

  92. 92.

    Texas Dem

    July 21, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    At this point the only option left for Team McCain is to pursue some version of Clinton’s “Tanya Harding” strategy. In other words, they need to cut Obama off at the knees by taking advantage of his obvious vulnerabilities, i.e., his race, Rev. Wright, Muslim sounding middle name, exotic background, etc. Play every race card in the book and hope that (1) it doesn’t provoke a backlash and (2) that it poisons the well thoroughly enough to allow McCain to win the election by default. This just might tip the election in McCain’s favor but it will leave the country so polarized that it will be virtually impossible for McCain to get anything done. But they don’t seem to have many options available at this point.

  93. 93.

    Delia

    July 21, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Play every race card in the book and hope that (1) it doesn’t provoke a backlash and (2) that it poisons the well thoroughly enough to allow McCain to win the election by default. This just might tip the election in McCain’s favor but it will leave the country so polarized that it will be virtually impossible for McCain to get anything done.

    Well, this has been the gooper strategery up to now. Plus, using the Big Lie, the little lie, the smear, the half truth, and liberal doses of fear. Also, rigging the vote when necessary. In all other countries where this has been tried it’s worked quite well and it was working well with the dems until Obama came along. My personal opinion is that it’s a combination of being extremely intelligent and getting his training in the Chicago political machine. Plus, the goopers are really good with the lies and intimidation part, but they really suck at the governing part, and they neglected to get the whole country locked up before they had to submit to another election, and now they’ve got to contend with this guy, Obama, who’s figured out how to stare them all down, and none of them know what to do.

  94. 94.

    Chuck Butcher

    July 21, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    At this point, is it safe to wonder if the Republicans are actively trying to throw the 2008 election?

    Ok, I’ll bite. Who exactly would make up the starting line-up? The 28% base must be satisfied enough to not vote against them and their agenda has been pretty clear. Somehow the Republican voters liked McCain the best and nobody they like better ran…

    At the beginning of the Primaries I was unconvinced that Obama was the best candidate, at this juncture I’m pretty sure he was. No, he’s not left enough for my happy face, but I haven’t figured on that in a long time. Maybe after 8 years of Obama someone more left would have a chance, maybe.

    A whole lot of what has been happening to McCain was inevitable, Iraq was going to want us out whether the “surge” did any good or not, the economy has been on this track for quite awhile, the stuff hit a little later than I thought; energy was going to be an issue – gas hitting $3 a year ago showed that, along with nat gas & etc going up, the tax breaks had to work this way – there is a bell curve of taxation and Bush shoved his point way right of the top performing numbers, Clinton actually got pretty close.

    Right now 5 Senates are probably Dem take-overs, 4 more are turning into races and those are critical. Smith (R-OR) is one of those 4, against Jeff Merkley (D), if you’ve got extra $s floating around Smith has a huge war chest advantage even though Merkley out raised him last 1/4.
    Merkley for Senate

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