This just strikes me as a stupid idea, and one that will fail quite miserably, and rightly so:
Led by Tom Matzzie, a liberal political operative who has been involved with some prominent left-wing efforts in recent years, the newly formed nonprofit group, Accountable America, is planning to confront donors to conservative groups, hoping to create a chilling effect that will dry up contributions.
“We want to stop the Swift Boating before it gets off the ground,” said Mr. Matzzie, who described his effort as “going for the jugular.”
The warning letter is intended as a first step, alerting donors who might be considering giving to right-wing groups to a variety of potential dangers, including legal trouble, public exposure and watchdog groups digging through their lives.
A couple of quick thoughts. First, the notion that they way to fight swiftboat attacks is to, well, swiftboat the swiftboaters, strikes me as the sort of illogic the right wing has labored under for the past few years- the best way to fight the immoral and and evil behavior of terrorists is to… torture and indefinitely detain while bombing indiscriminately. You can see shades of this idiocy still today, as wingers yesterday lamented that the Hamdan sentence showed we are not “tough enough” to win the war on terror and that they are laughing at us because we are so soft. In short, the best way to stop behaviors you do not like are not to emulate and legitimize those behaviors.
Second, the real problem with the swiftboaters is not the swiftboaters themselves, but the fact that in this one case, the media gave them a whole ton of attention. There are plethora of books, websites and e-zines out there right now saying all sorts of horrible stuff about John McCain, much of it along the lines of the kind of crap that was spewed about Kerry. I am not going to link the jackasses (and don’t put that crap in the comments of this post, please), but you can do your own web search including the words John + McCain + canary and get a quick idea of the stuff out there. The difference is that the media is paying no attention- and that is the crucial difference.
Third, I just generally find threats like this distasteful, and right now the Democratic party needs as many folks like me in their wing as possible. I am not a Democrat because I am some sort of crazy liberal who believes in all sorts of left-wing causes. I am a Democrat because in a two-party system, when one party is abso-damn-lutely corrupt, immoral, incompetent, and, well, evil, you have to do what you can to support the other party. Long story short- there are a lot of folks like me out there who are enthusiastically supporting lots of left-wing candidates as a way to return some balance and order to the system, but who are not going to take kindly to the Democratic party embracing the worst aspects of the right-wing. This sort of nonsense just doesn’t strike me as right, even if you think your cause is just.
And finally, I just hate bullying, and that is what this smacks of to me. Give to the cause we don’t approve of or that says things we don’t like, and we smear your name all over the internet and give you a counter-top inspection. Sound familiar?
No money for these guys from me.
SamFromUtah
Agreed 100%.
The Moar You Know
You think this is stupid? This is brilliant.
I take it that your response when a guy has you on the ground, kicking you in the nutsack, is to ask them nicely to stop?
I have no idea why you were ever a Republican. This “take the high road” approach to politics is as Democratic as it gets. Wonder why the Republicans have occupied the White house for the vast majority of the time since 1968?
This is why.
They are willing to fight for it, and all we are willing to do is to cry about the methods they use to win. We’re busy crying – they’re busy winning.
Alaskan Pete
The fact that Corsi is getting the tpyical book-release/tour treatment in the media right now…although with tougher questioning…illustrates your point nicely. If not for the tabloid, fake-controvesy seeking media there would be no “swiftboating” because it wouldn;t work.
Similarly, the new tactic of releasing an attack ad, buying minimal air time for it, but touting it to the media who dutifully air it on their rountable type shows under the premise “is CandidateSixpack’s new attack ad working? We’ll talk to experts from boths sides after the break”. Free advertising basically and the stupid media jackasses don’t even see that they’re getting played…or they do and don’t care…I don’t know which case is worse.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Well said.
We don’t need a countertop sniffing brigade on the left. The right can have those personalities thank you very much and good riddance.
O/T – more good ideas brewing on Wall St: The same people who saw nothing wrong with CDO’s until it was too late will do a really good job of managing corporate defined-benefit pension plans.
The right keeps telling us they want to take us back to the halcyon days of the 1950s, but somehow they keep overshooting the target and hitting the 1930s instead.
ALL UR MONIEZ R BELONG 2 US!
Napoleon
Speaking of stupid, read Krugman today where he says “Republicans . . . have become the party of stupid.”
rawshark
You can’t play fair when the media is in bed with the other team. You do that and you lose.
Shygetz
I agree that it’s distateful, it’s bullying, and I cannot in good conscience support it. That said…recent history makes it impossible to say that this kind of tactic doesn’t work. It remains to be seen if it will work for Democrats.
clone12
While I agree in principle about how bullying has no place in either ideological stripe, identifying prominent donors is not something unhearded- we know what George Soros and Mellon-Scaife put their money on. I’m not sure what new service these guys are providing, or that they would be doing it more efficiently than what is already being done.
Personally, I’m more upset about fake rumors, be they against Obama or McCain. I would rather see these guys harangue the media into calling out BS more often, but that’s just me.
D. Mason
I wonder if Cole was asking people to refrain from posting the smears about Kerry’s military service.
Alex
Agreed. I can also see it backfiring badly, and encouraging donations.
Zifnab
This is the sort of thing that inevitably comes back to bite you in the ass. The Swiftboat Veterans aren’t exactly held in high regard in American Politics. They’re the poster children for dirty political hackery and they are firmly linked to the Republican Party. Noting that, “[he] worked with the Swift Boaters last election cycle”, basically confirms that the speaker is a deep ideological partisan and a liar to boot. Only in the most right wing of circles can a guy get away with openly proclaiming himself a Swiftie and earn street cred.
Why would the left want to go out and earn such a reputation? Keep your noses clean. Campaign the right way. Keep your blows above the belt. It is not like there is a shortage of horrible things you can trumpet about the opposition candidates. They’re a pack of lying, stealing, flip-flopping, bought-off hacks. You don’t need to lie about any of that.
Meh. That’s a different game. If a group of millionaire backers want to throw up an astro turf smear campaign and think they can just hide in the shadows once they’re done… fuck that.
You don’t dive into the pool and expect not to get wet. Not unless you’re wearing at least two wetsuits. If people want to play politics with their money, they should be ready to get a backlash. The Gramme Frost counter top expose was bad because it was so shallow and vapid. But I never, for a second, honestly expected they would be immune to scrutiny. The idea that oppo-research wasn’t going to be conducted on figureheads for a Democratic flagship policy is hopelessly naive. You can’t let yourself look weak in a fight like this, and sometimes that means bullying the opposition back.
James F. Elliott
This is a bad idea. “Chilling effects” are not how to combat bad information or people donating to causes you disagree with. More information, refutations, and more donors is.
David Hunt
Mr. Cole,
It sounds like your true party affiliation is the same as mine: Anti-Republican.
Elvis Elvisberg
But their candidate won.
I don’t know. This isn’t my thing. I won’t give them a dime ever.
But in this actually existing world, with unchecked right-wing smear merchants able to push lies into the public mind, I can’t honestly say that I wish these guys would disappear.
John Cole
Yes, because I am secretly still a part of a ratfuck operation designed to pretend to support Obama but instead working to hamper anti-Republican left-wing operations through a steady bit of concern-trolling on an insignificant website.
Tsulagi
Not to mention lame as it could easily be counter productive. If I got a semi-threatening, sternly worded letter from some dork or pompous ass group, if I gave it any consideration at all, my inclination would be to do the opposite. I’m thinking others would too.
Zifnab
I fucking knew it!
nightjar
I’m sure this kind of bluster really has wingnuts quaking in their boots. Idle threats are always a bad idea. The way to fight SB attacks is to instantly state in clear and forceful way that it is a LIE. It is a lie today, yesterday and tomorrow. Go on the TV and when a pundit of newscaster says what about this. You say it is a LIE and further the person propounding on it is propounding on a LIE LIE LIE. No Him and Haw, no navel gazing, no lengthy diatribes.
El Tiburon
So, Democrats need to get tough and start bringing knives to knife fights, but not so much?
I don’t know about this enterprise, but Jud Legum is a guy I tend to trust, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt before closing the door on them.
Oh, glad you’re not some “crazy liberal”. Care to maybe do a post on what exactly a “crazy liberal” is?
Maybe a CL are those idiots who protest the war or torture or poverty or lack of healthcare? Seriously, can you give me an idea of what a CL is?
John Cole
Uh oh, the sensitive crazy liberals are out in force. I shall now be force to suffer the consequences of years of marginalization of liberals. I, personally, am to blame for it.
Xenos
The problem is not the donors – there is an endless supply of soft-headed rich people who are ready to fund political and religious extremists and fraudsters of various stripes. You should see the sort of money such people spend on uncertified therapists and lifestyle coaches. Sending money to Roger Stone or Jerome Corsi is just part of the same process.
The solution is to go after the Stones and the Corsis. Harass them directly by exposing them and publicizing their dishonesty. Make them household names, the way that Herman Goering and Tokyo Rose were household names. Heap scorn, resentment, and hatred on their names – it must be toxic to be associated with them.
Beej
Just exactly when did being “the other party” equal being “evil”? Rushie and his ilk have been pushing this for years. Rove is/was a master at pushing this idea. This type of thinking isn’t just a domestic political tactic. As John notes, it has carried over into Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, etc. The “other” is evil, therefore you can fight him/her with any tactic, including torture, just so you win. Because you can’at let evil win.
And you know what? From some of the comments here, it looks like the right-wing has been totally successful in selling this snake oil. “We have to use dirty tactics on them because they are evil and if we don’t fight dirty, we may lose and you can’t let evil win.”
Jesus dancing Christ!
rawshark
Or you could answer the fucking question. Deflection is a republican way of answering.
rawshark
1984
Xenos
Someone from Tiburon wants to know the definition of a crazy liberal? Look out your window, dude.
daryljhusseinfontaine
Yeah, sounds like this Scare Tactics idea will work really well… </eyeroll>
I applaud the idea of the Crack Anti-Swiftboat Commando Squad, but seriously: ur doin it wrong. Better to do what was suggested above, and make sure the names of the groups and their rotating cast of scumsuckers are synonymous with the smear of dog poop one scrapes off their shoe after an incautious step.
D
nightjar
Actually this quote is a pretty good example of CL getting all puffy and grossly overstating a generality, that yes liberals can get a little overwrought about things.
JL
This is quite an interesting post. The media played a large part in swift-boating Kerry and gave the nuts a forum. Since McCain has no ground game to speak of, he will continue the negative ads which Obama will continue to defend. Hopefully, by opting out of campaign finance, Obama will also have enough money to attack them. I don’t know if Accountability Now will work or not this election, but it could be a necessary evil.
John Cole
Alright, anyone of the hair-brained schemes that open Democrats up to mockery, and which are not unlike the crazier aspects of the right wing, just the cause is different. Start with tobacco bans, move on to zero tolerance policies in schools, head over to slavery reparations, move on to outright pacifism regardless the situation, move on to animal rights, and so on and so forth.
Quit being a jackass- you know what I mean. I am not talking about folks concerned about poverty and health care, and you know it.
And now, of course, I will be forced to argue everything I have stated- animal rights, what is wrong with treating animals decently, someone will ask. To which I will have to respond ‘Nothing is wrong with treating animals decently, and everyone should be required to treat animals humanely. But there is a difference between treating animals humanely and pretending animals have rights.’ And on and on and on. What a fucking lovely way to spend the afternoon this is going to be.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Something about this phrase makes me keep thinking of the Crack Suicide Squad at the end of Monty Python’s “Life of Brian”.
jake
Don’t worry John. The fringe loons of the left are fairly harmless because they can’t do anything without a crap-load of drama, in-fighting and grudge matches that scuttles the effort well before it becomes a problem.
Second verse, same as first.
clussman
John, I agree with you that the tactics suck and I’m in no way excusing them, but they’re coming from a place of frustration and trying to find any solution to an intractable problem that doesn’t seem to have a solution.
You said there is all kinds of crap being spewed about John McCain. I follow politics heavily both online and on the news networks and I haven’t heard or seen much of anything. Compare that to the wall-to-wall crap spewed and repeated everywhere about Democratic candidates in every goddamned election cycle that I’ve payed attention to, which starts with Clinton’s re-election in 96.
There is a clear problem here. If someone spouts off about a ‘conservative’ candidate it goes unheard. But the right-wing noise machine spews out a message and every fucking news program and website talks about it for a goddamned week.
So while the tactics you’ve described suck and we both disagree with them — do you have any better ideas? (And no, I’m not saying that if you don’t then these people are justified — they’re not. I’m just frustrated and looking for more constructive input.)
Patrick Briggs
Liberals need to spend more time practicing what they preach instead of wasting time online deliberately misinterpreting a rational blogger who makes a valid point about “crazy liberals”.
Intimidating donors is a stupid idea! There are other ways to play hardball without compromising one’s ethics.
The Populist
John,
Well written comment. I find the far left to be as crazy as the wingnuts they despise. It’s disheartening to hear an idiot like Mike Malloy go on the air and say we should elect McCain because Barack disappointed him over something (argh). He doesn’t get it because he’s as deluded by his ideology as Michael Savage is by his.
Is this truly the end of our country as we knew it? All it will take to end the constitution is another big event it seems. Americans embrace idiocy like no other while still thinking we are the #1 country in the world! They think we don’t NEED the world YET they don’t understand that the world OWNS us pretty much.
In the end, I joined the Dem cause because deep down I am a fiscal conservative who got tired of a party of bible thumpers, moral snobs, hypocrites and hate mongers. I want the dems to shove it to the idiots who tell me that science is bad because it questions the bible (hence their questionable beliefs – true believers…if God didn’t want us to understand our world, then we’d be dumb animals worshipping volcanoes and sea gods!). I want to see these so-called “fiscal cons” get theirs because under Clinton we actually had a fucking surplus! Why is it a “tax and spend” liberal could balance the fucking books and the first “MBA” president can’t manage ANYTHING.
It kills me when I see the Dems cowtow to their leftie fringe elements. Stop with this. Let’s do the right thing and protect the constitution, return the rule of law, habeus corpus and tell Ann Coulter to fuck off. Stop with this other crybaby shit.
If Obama doesn’t want to be swiftboated, he should get out and attack their points relentlessly. If they think he has no plan, keep LAYING the plan out there by pointing out McCain’s flip flops. Run ads that show McCain saying one thing and doing another. THAT will win an election.
libarbarian
Prof. Cole,
I agree about the attacks as well as my place in the Democratic party being due to the badness of the Repubs as opposed to real belief in the Democratic policy package, but the Dems do need to think of a way to attack the logistical basis of the Republican support in the same way that the Republicans have been attacking the bases of their support.
If the Dems constrain themselves to just trying to win elections while the Republicans use their terms in power to undermine the logistical support structure of the Democratic party with legal and regulatory obstacles as well as with manufactured public outrage at their donors, this isn’t going to be much of a two-party system.
Just Some Fuckhead
I don’t think I’d characterize it as stupid. Probably short-sighted is the best description. It also ignores the fact that there are some conservative groups out there doing excellent work on behalf of Democrats. Club for Growth comes to mind.
MBunge
“The way to fight SB attacks is to instantly state in clear and forceful way that it is a LIE. It is a lie today, yesterday and tomorrow. Go on the TV and when a pundit of newscaster says what about this. You say it is a LIE and further the person propounding on it is propounding on a LIE LIE LIE.”
And then what? Since it’s a practical impossibility to sue over this sort of thing, what happens after you call it a lie? Is it going to stop the lie from being repeated? Is it going to really stop anyone from believing it? And more importantly, what do you do with someone after you’ve called them a liar? It’s a discussion and relationship ender. You certainly don’t continue to argue with a liar over their lie. Barack Obama can’t have his campaign calling McCain a liar over and over again and then have Obama stand on the debate stage with McCain and smile and shake his hand.
That’s why the word “lie” doesn’t get thrown around much in politics, because once it’s uttered you can’t go back to normal business. It’s a charge that requires you to act differently or else you invalidate the charge.
Mike
El Tiburon
Damn those liberals for trying to protect animals. Hear that Mayor Calvo?
Crazy liberal smoking ban = crazy conservative torture policy? Really?
Crazy liberal zero tolerance policy = crazy conservative Intelligent Design policy? Really?
Agreed that some “liberal” policies (I don’t think smoking ban is liberal) may overeach and go to far. But “Crazy?” Then to compare these policies to the horrific policies of the right? Come on.
I see you still have a lot of your old ways of thinking about what a liberal is.
Sorry we may ruin your afternoon, but don’t blame El Tiburon or Rawshark for it. Face it headon and deal with it.
Genine
I completely agree. People are free to have their own standards of behavior. But for me, purposely engaging in the same behavior I rail against is hypocrisy. It never comes to any good. Maybe, in the short term, there may be gains (i.e. the Republicans). But look at what’s happening now? Its all unraveling. Maybe not with McCain but all those “Family Values” jerks are sure getting it.
I don’t like the two-party system, however its what we’ve got. How are we going to be any kind of alternative if we engage in the same behaviors? Most people think there’s very little difference now. How is that going to play out in the long term?
And do you really think compromising to the extent that we engage in such repugnant behavior is really going to make a difference? Please! The media reports on the Swiftboaters and the Michele Malkin business like normal (which was a nice change). But if liberals or progressives engage in such behavior, suddenly the media will have an epiphany “Yes, we hear you bloggers! We will engage in investigative reporting. We will investigate these left-wing groups that are using bully tactics and intimidation to curtail donations to the opposition!” Then the Swiftboaters won’t be seen as bad, because Democrats do the same thing.
Then we will cry “But what about the Republicans? They did it first!” (which in and of itself would be a childish) And there will be no response or the response will be Republicans needed to do it to defend themselves against the left.
So, really, its a lose-lose situation, imo. I see no benefit and it works to the advantage of Republicans.
AkaDad
I respect you more for admitting it. What tipped me off was you volunteering for Obama.
Koz
whocoodanode
Cole: “… right now the Democratic party needs as many folks like me in their wing as possible. I am not a Democrat because I am some sort of crazy liberal who believes in all sorts of left-wing causes.”
In other words, the Coles of the Republicans are going to migrate to the Democratic Party because their views and judgment have proven so toxic and possibly fatal to the American experiment … but they ain’t a-changin’ nope not one bit.
No, Mr. Cole, the Democratic Party does not need folks like you at all. In fact it would be better if there was some way to keep “folks like you” out of it completely.
This nation and certainly the Democratic Party needs more “crazy liberals” as your koolaid-soaked brain puts it. Rats leaving a sinking ship do not improve the side they run to–more of your kind will just drown out what puny hope we have of restoring our nation’s standing in the world.
HINT: America is a liberal nation, born in liberty. There is no individual freedom in “conservative” ideology. It was your side that poisoned the word liberal, and I would ask that you stop insulting our true heritage.
LanceThruster
You nailed it by placing much of the blame on the media. It’s as if they have preset balance controls that require a “neck & neck” race as the expected point of equalibrium.
McSame gets too far behind; go easy on him and hard on Obama. Give smears of Obama coverage and ignore even valid accusations against McCain.
Who benefits?
I expect more media complicity should the goopers be able to steal yet another election.
nightjar
And then you answer your own question.
Precisely the point. How to deal with a lie. Do you want to have a discussion and relationship about it, or condemn it for what it is before it becomes urban myth. And you can’t sue anyone for saying lies about public figures, in Great Britain maybe, but not here. I guarantee that if every liberal pundit surrogate did what I suggested, news types would think twice about bringing up lies for “discussion” . Wingnuts learned this long ago, and it’s why news weenies steer clear of debate on smears against them.
libarbarian
I am secretly still a part of a ratfuck operation designed to pretend to support Obama but instead working to hamper anti-Republican left-wing operations through a steady bit of concern-trolling on an insignificant website.
Concern Trolls: Republican Secret Weapons and/or the single greatest threat to the American Family?
El Tiburon
Oh, and about the “sensitive liberal” alert.
Yeah, I guess after a decade or two of my entire belief system being shit upon by people like you used to be and the media, I think we liberals do tend to get a bit peeved with this baseless attack.
So I’d tell you to put that in your pipe and smoke it but that has been banned.
Koz
The reality is, George W Bush won the 2004 Presidential election and the interest in the Swiftboaters or John Kerry waned very quickly afterward. This is a little unfortunate, because liberal/Leftist short bus refugees like nightjar have deluded themselves ever since then.
So let’s do a quick recap. The Swifties asserted that John Kerry never went to Cambodia as a Swift Boat commander, as he claimed in debate in Senate. They asserted that Kerry never witnessed any war crimes, as he claimed in Congressional testimony. They asserted that his war decorations were earned in highly dubious circumstances. #1 and #2 are obviously true and haven’t been contested by any credible source since then. #3 is very plausible, and still a point of contention. Nightjar can think what he wants of course, but if he keeps trying to sell this load of crap, he might want to ask himself just who the liar is.
D-Chance.
Nah… now this, THIS, is a stupid idea.
Just remember, boys… one had good, two hands better.
nightjar
I like it. Don’t know WTF it means. LOL. My take on what you said. It’s a lie. It was a lies yesterday, today and tomorrow. None of what the Swift Boat liars said was true. They shamed themselves and their service with their lying, all because they didn’t like what Kerry said about the war after he was there. And their apologists, like Koz the troll, feeds at the bottom of public discourse and shits in his own wingnut bed as a matter of daily living.
Short Bus Liberal.
rawshark
personally I don’t give a shit about your response other than to point out that that is how the swiftboaters responded to questions about their lies. “Oh my God now we’re going to hear all about nuance….”.
Don’t make statements and then blow off people who question you. Answer them.
nightjar
Now we’ve got the Answer Police to deal with. The question was
You’ve been around here long enough rawshark, to know that’s a question loaded up with bullshit, requiring a snark response ,or no response at all.
Xenos
Then maybe that is the approach – make the lying the topic of discussion by refusing to appear in debates with a confirmed liar. Let a surrogate say that they are urging Obama to blow off the debates, because McCain is not worthy of them, and watch the feathers fly.
rawshark
What snark? John says he’s a good dem, not a ‘crazy liberal’. Some guy asks what he means. John blows him off with a right wing ‘here come the crazy liberals’ type response. Are people only deserving of answers if their questions are formulated politely? Is that why he deserved the snark response he got?
All I asked was for John to not act like the assholes he calls out. Don’t make a statement about ‘crazy liberals’ and then hide behind ‘you people are sooooo sensitive’.
It’s like a mini-Jane Hamsher’s of the left moment. It’s Limbaugh-esque.
As I said before I don’t care what Johns definition of a crazy liberal is. I just think El Tiburon deserved an answer even if he wasn’t polite. As he says:
El Tiburon
nightjar-
I haven’t hung out as long. Perhaps my statement was loaded up with bullshit. But so was the “crazy liberal” statement.
Cole’s follow-up didn’t really clear it up, so maybe you can.
Emma Anne
I kind of like the idea of exposing who people donate to, though. Donations to political candidates can be looked up over the web. Why not donations to Swift Boat organizations?
nightjar
Here is your quote from before
Ok, I’ll try. Every issue you list in this question, Cole has been consistently on the right side, or the progressive side. If you hang around long you will see this. That doesn’t mean there aren’t issues he promotes that are shall we say lacking in the progressive department, and he usually gets an earful from us. But the “crazy liberal” remark didn’t match up at all with the items in your analogy. That’s why it was loaded up with bullshit. And now you’ve ruined my evening from having to shamelessly defend our host.
And also, get used to smart ass remarks cause they’re part of the free speech around here.
nightjar
Read my response to el Tiburon for the answers to your questions. It was an uninformed question from someone new here. And uninformed questions, regardless of mitigating factors, deserve snark, IMHO>
Koz
Well Mr. Short Bus, there’s a lot of liberals who come from the left half of the intelligence distribution, so sometimes you have to talk slowly so they can get it.
You see, people who habitually say one thing when they know the truth is something else, those people are liars. The Swiftboaters said that John Kerry was never in Cambodia on a Swift Boat, and that John Kerry never witnessed any war crimes. We now know those things are true. Therefore, on this evidence the Swiftboaters are not liars but Mr. Kerry might be.
nightjar
I must say Mr. Koz, I’ve read lot’s of examples of wingnut mislogic, but you sir you take the cake. So let’s see, since Kerry didn’t go to Cambodia and Didn’t witness any war crimes, which by the way he never claimed to have, then the Swift Boat liars are exonerated from being liars. All those claims about him shooting himself for purple hearts and personally approving them and lying about his medals and awarding himself those too, all those claims without a single shred of evidence — all that is pushed under the rug because he once thought he was in Cambodia, instead of just really close to it. Brilliant Koz, just fucking brilliant. Must be nice never having to worry about the truth when wingnut ideology will fill the space where a brain should be.
On second thought, me thinks you must be a spoof. No one is that dumb.
John Cole
Actually, I was kind of a dick, Nightjar. I should have just answered rather than being a smartass, especially to new folks who were aksing a straight question.
Not to mention, I can understand why, after years of being marginalized, folks would take offense at the “crazy liberal” bit.
nightjar
Well at least you didn’t call ’em “short bus liberals” as we learned today from Koz the mental giant. LOL.
Koz
Kerry absolutely claimed to be in Cambodia during Christmas of 1968, in fact claimed the fact of it was “seared in his memory” on the floor of the Senate. He also repeated false allegations of war crimes in Senate testimony just after he returned from Vietnam and joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
The medals and war wounds can get bogged down into he-said, she-said.
But it’s a disgrace that some liberals want to accuse the Swifties of being liars when they are telling the truth, and plainly telling the truth at that. Most of them just live in their own echo chamber where nobody will call them on it. But that doesn’t mean that no one can.
Neo
I’d suggest Accountable America and their financial backers read 42 U.S. Code § 21 before proceeding.
Neo
Sorry, I cited that incorrectly .. that should have been 42 U.S. Code § 1985 (also know as the Ku Klux Klan Act)