Just nothing out there very compelling, at least for me. Seems like the campaign really is in the dull stretches of August.
Maybe something exciting will happen. I doubt it.
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Brother Flaming Taser of Warm Reason
looks like McLame wasn’t in the “Cone of Silence” for half of Obama’s thing with Warren and was probably listening in. Of course McLame’s campaign is now whining about this being reported on NBC by Andrea Mitchell and is claiming NBC is no longer being “non-partisan” in their campaign coverage. They also, once again, brough up McLame being a POW in reference to his “integrity” with regard to being called out.
TCG
Has anyone seen that the Wing Nut Daily is reporting that Bush is set to APPEASE Libya over Reagan’s missile strikes against Kadaffi?
Apparently Condi will head over there and personally appease Gaddaffi. If true this has to be really a sad day for wingnuts.
Napoleon
Did anyone see Andrew Bacevich on Bill Moyer’s show Friday night? Holy cow, powerful stuff. He pulled no punches on what he thinks is wrong in this country. It was must see TV.
montysano
All of the responses thus far from the McCain campaign have been very lawyerly:
“The McCain campaign confirmed that McCain did not hear or see any of the broadcast”. (Did anyone around him?)
“”The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.” This is not a denial.
I’m so fucking sick of liars. I hate liars.
jake
Some guy Bush barely ever heard of lost his job today.
Sic Semper Tyrannis [sic?]
Tom65
Yeah, it’s going to be kinda quiet until the convention, other than McCain’s constant whining.
jake
Aaand, DC will be perfectly safe, provided people bent on mass murder don’t stoop to renting or stealilng cars.
Note to visitors: Don’t bring your dog unless he has a kevlar doggie vest.
Note to residents: If you have an emergency that requiers police assistance, you’ll need to sort it out yourself. The cops will be too busy people who happen to be on a Terrist Watch List.
Brother Orbiting Laser
I call upon John McCain to denounce Nazi BBQ.
Punchy
What classes are you teaching this semester?
LanceThruster
Why was the very first head-to-head (sort of) event with Obama and McCain a (xian) religious pissing contest?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster will not be pleased. May his noodly appendage bless you and keep you… “R-amen”
Krista
So, lemme get this straight. Obama can’t even mention the fact that he’s black, and he gets accused of playing the race card.
John McCain uses the fact that he was a POW as a get-out-of-jail-free card to do everything but sodomize a blind nun with a whiffle-ball bat, and nobody calls him on it?
I would just love for someone to finally say, “Yeah, McCain. You were a POW. You’ve earned our respect for that. Doesn’t mean that you can act like an amoral asshole for the next 30-odd years.”
Krista
Please don’t wish for something exciting to happen. Wish for something good to happen.
There are a lot of awfully bad things that could happen during this election that could be termed as “exciting”.
nightjar
The word that comes to mind is nauseous. Can’t watch TV election coverage nor even read most printed accounts. It seems Everyone has an agenda with some sort of angle to play. And all of it breaks the silly meter. The new fall lineup of sitcoms may provide relief, though. We shall see.
myiq2xu
General Wes Clark did basically just that, and got thrown under the bus by Obama for his troubles.
Brother Orbiting Laser
I was looking at some of the “Songbird McCain” links someone posted here recently. A lot of it looks pretty fringey, but when it was about Kerry it was treated as Scripture. Only Republicans get to be war heroes.
Dork
From Sadly, No:
A SHIT MOAT. I shit you not.
TCG
Buchanon slaps Bush and Necons around a little bit in his column.
This article is sure to piss someone off at the corner.
Brachiator
To paraphrase Bob Marley:
They fired Musharraf,
And they might not keep his deputies, oh, no
The BBC news story on Musharraf’s resignation includes an accompanying photo of lawyers dancing in the streets (Pakistan’s Musharraf steps down).
A speaker of the House taking over for a disgraced president. Now, there’s an idea.
AkaDad
It really does take a maverick to play the P.O.W. card from the bottom of the deck.
jibeaux
Maybe because Obama actually stands a chance at getting some heavily Christian, even evangelical votes, and this is cause for rejoicing? Because it lets Obama send the message that progressive secular concern for the poor and powerless is the same as the gospel according to Matthew? Regardless of your religious persuasion, if some people find the same message more compelling when phrased in Biblical terms, then have at it.
Stooleo
If you have a Netflix subscription, this device is the coolest gadget I have seen in years. Basicaly it allows you to watch all the “watch instantly” movies on your television. Also there are no additional charges from Netflix. Best hundred bucks I’ve spent in a while.
Corner Stone
Are we sure he hasn’t done this yet? Or maybe voted for a bill that would allow the US to do this with no consequences?
Corner Stone
BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1!! That was beautiful!
Oh…wait..SHIT! You’re serious???
Incertus
I drove 800 miles one way to move my daughter into her dorm–I’m feeling a little old right now–but at least we have one thing in common. We both hate Kid Rock.
Susan Kitchens
McCain campaign chairman Rick Davis sends a letter to NBC about the way that they cover the news.
Shorter Rick Davis:
jibeaux
You know, I would think there might be some public health codes, or at the very least a neighborhood association covenant, that would prohibit, explicitly or implicitly, a shit moat outside your Beverly Hills house…
Brother Flaming Taser of Warm Reason
One thing you won’t hear in the Nat’l MSM is some of the reactions caught by the local media who were at the event. One of the ones that stuck out in my mind was that of one gentleman who said flat out “All of these hard line stances McCain is taking don’t seem to be founded in christian teaching at all”. Of course they did have one woman who was typically WASPish and praised McCain to no end but she looked bat-shit crazy anyway.
rachel
This made me snicker.
Corner Stone
Who is Gen Wes Clark? Is he the table tennis partner of Gen Doug Lute for the Americans at the olympics?
Both have been disappeared so it’s as good a guess as any.
Kirk
I expect things on the political front to heat up soon. The DNC starts a week from tomorrow, and I think Obama will be announcing his VP candidate before then.
And you KNOW that’ll be providing plenty of juice for the balloons that need filled before Friday.
Brother Flaming Taser of Warm Reason
I like how TPM framed it as “Aggressive Whining”.
jibeaux
Sure, I’m serious.
Who knows whether it will work or not, but those folks aren’t fond of McCain. No point in wasting the opportunity.
Krista
Thank you. That new song of his annoys me beyond all reason. As soon as it comes on the radio, I have to change the station.
Hard to say. If the abortion issue trumps every other thing for them, then they won’t even consider Obama. But, there are likely some who look at the bigger picture, and how both of these men have lived their lives. Maybe this will be a good opportunity for the religious left in your country to speak up for once.
I still say it’s pretty freaking sad that everybody’s gotta pander to the bible-thumpers now. So much for “no religious test”, huh?
jibeaux
Having been in self-imposed exile, I forgot Corner Stone was a troll. Forgive me, y’all, for I have sinned in engaging him as if he were interested in a good faith debate.
As penance, though, I’ve included lots of religious puns and references.
I know. It’s not much. I’ll work on it.
aarrgghh
um, for those who don’t get the reference, the “cone of silence” actually doesn’t work.
jake
He who feeds the troll must keep the troll.
Remember not to get him wet or feed him after midnight.
Louise
I’m so depressed at the thought that Bayh is going to be the VP pick. Blech. I think I’d even like Hagel more.
John Cole
I honestly do not remember the last time I listened to radio that was not NPR.
jibeaux
The thing is, and you know how awesome I think you are, Krista, people’s voting preferences are not a religious test for office. If the state of mind of the American people at this point in time is that they’re not going to vote for a non-Christian, and it is, that may be regrettable, it may be backwards, it may be any number of things, but it is not unconstitutional. The Constitution guarantees eligible people the right to run for political office. It does not guarantee that they will be elected.
Incertus
It’s sports talk or NPR for me, on the rare occasions when I listen to it at all. I’d never have even listened to that Kid Rock song if my daughter hadn’t mentioned it with such venom.
bootlegger
He came to a symposium we held last year and I hung out with him a bit at the reception. Ex-military guy with a classical education, a self-described conservative but clearly not deluded or orthodox in any way, and real, real smart. I highly recommend his books on Iraq and American foreign policy.
AkaDad
I’m listening to Thom Hartmann right now. He’s probably the most knowledgeable person on the radio.
Kirk
Actually, it sort of does.
John Cole
Obligatory “A. James Bacevich was my RCO when I was in the army” comment.
wasabi gasp
The cone of silence is buying your whiny kid a soft-serve with sprinkles.
Georgette Orwell
“You must wear kneepads when McCain, Praise Be Unto Him, is your news story.”
Hey, hey, you forgot to add “prisoner of war” in there. I believe his full given name is John Sidney POW McCain.
Napoleon
And if to prove it he basically said to the effect that every President in the last 40 years has ignored the real problems of this country with energy dependence and some related problems. He stated one exception to that which was Jimmy Carter’s “malaise” speech, which Bacevich said showed Carter got what the problem was. Can you imagine any standard issue conservative saying anything good about that speech, let alone raising it above everything St Ronnie had done?
Wayne
“Maybe something exciting will happen. I doubt it.”
Come to South Florida.
myiq2xu
John Cole’s army days
Punchy
1) you dont own a car, so I sorta believe you…but then…
2) what the hell do you listen to in the shower?
AkaDad
I’m hearing that McCain couldn’t have possibly heard the questions, because at the time, he was praying to God for the answers.
Laura W
Obligatory “I wore Lt. Cmdr. John McCain III’s POW bracelet when I was in high school” comment.
The ironing.
Corner Stone
It’s true, I don’t revel in the glorious groupthink going on over here at BJ. Sorry I can’t get my kneepads on and fall in line behind you and Conservatively Liberal to start fellating Obama. That’s troll law #1, so of course it’s me to a T.
To your specificly stupid comment about Obama and evangelicals – to rip off Atrios – NA. GA. HAPPEN.
Why anyone believes that the fundies will pull the lever for BHO is just the definition of kool-aidedness. You can poll, interview, census these dirty, lying, mo-fo’s until they are on their deathbed – they will never, never, never ever, ever vote for a Democrat/liberal/non-Republican pro-choicer. He can speak to his faith all he likes. Never.
I once had the misfortune of being in the middle of a group of fundies while I was waiting for someone. One of the gentlemen in the group said, “I just don’t know how you can call yourself a good christian if you didn’t vote for George Bush.” The others nodded sagely and agreed.
They may not like McCain, may be repulsed at the idea of voting for him – on that we can agree. However, given the choice of McCain, Obama, or staying home and praying for armeggedon the actual effort to pull the lever for BHO will not happen.
I’ll tell you what – call your shot right here. What percentage of self-identified “evangelicals” do you think will exit poll as having voted for Obama?
Napoleon
Seriously? I remember those things. Did they have just one for each POW? Do you still have it?
w vincentz
Sad news today…….Genuine Risk, the filly that won the Kentucky Derby in 1980 was found dead in her paddock this morning. RIP Sweetheart, you were some kinda girl.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Religious & evangelical != fundies.
If I came up with a way of posting Venn diagrams to blog comments, I could make millions.
Laura W
In ref. to John’s comment last week about not being into the Olympics this time, I was noticing the same thing myself. About myself. Even gymnastics could not entice me to stay up or find replay times.
I believe that after all these years of Iraq, all the elections and primaries and the whatever-you-call-now, the so-called “Administration” scandals that don’t end… the part of my psyche that can tolerate a wee bit of nationalism and USA ROCKS mentality, competition, victor/vanquished dramas, battles, contests, score keeping, et al, is totally exhausted and spent. I have no energy left to expend on the Olympics, or little else lately, for that matter. They seem silly, pointless and trite to me, and oddly as if they have served their purpose in history and are no longer relevant (or healthy for many of the athletes.)
Napoleon
I personally don’t think its really aimed at the fundies, but the more marginal moderate regular church goer type, and more broadly trying to appear as a more open new Democrat. I think that is what Bush did in trying to appeal to blacks and hispanics. He didn’t think he was going to take that demographic, but maybe shave a few points off at the margins and more importantly come off as a more moderate Republican to moderate whites.
Conservatively Liberal
myiq2xuGoatBoy out frolicking with his harem (Corner StoneDumb as a Rock took the picture).Laura W
(I don’t want John to yell at me so I’m trying my first block quote here.)
I don’t know about how many were produced. I recall my friend wore one for Strickland someone. I did hear or read something lately that directed me to a site where they were all listed and maybe accounted for? ie, trying to trace where they were and who had them. I do not have mine. Pity. Could surely fetch something on eBay. Or not.
The first time McCain was running (12BC I think it was) I emailed his senate office and told them about the bracelet, etc. Never got a reply. Not even a canned one.
Fucker.
cleek
same here (and i do own a car).
if there’s nothing good on NPR, i’ve got the 6-disc changer in the dash and a folder full of CDs in the center console.
radio is ass.
Brachiator
It might be interesting to see if Obama benefits from any conversations that people who attended this event may have with their fellow worshipers. I watched the forum on the local Orange County station which carried it, and it was clear that Obama came across as a committed Christian and not as a stealth Mormon, and camera shots showed many nodding in approval over some of his statements and his easy discussion of Christian themes. This shouldn’t matter, but it does.
From a strategic standpoint, the more that Obama can get the phony issue of questions about his faith off the table, the more that it might help him with some otherwise “reluctant” voters.
Does this then, for example, make Catholics “rosary yankers?” I don’t know much about the demographics of Warren’s Saddleback Church, but if they are similar to the city of Lake Forrest, in which the church is located, then it suggests that even evangelicals are not a monolith:
Abortion may not be the single issue for all evangelicals, and it may be possible to appeal to moderates and Independents. From what I saw of the forum, both candidates did well in this regard.
As an aside, it is worth noting that, as always, pundits pop up like media pimps to tell us all what we are supposed to think about the church forum, but not enough is done to … you know… actually interview voters or attendees of the event.
Krista
Good point. That last bit about “no religious test” was probably more hyperbole than anything, to prove a point.
I wasn’t really referring to the individual’s voting preference, though.
This recent event with Rev. Warren just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I guess it’s because it’s not just the individual voter now who is concerned whether the candidate is sufficiently Christian.
It’s become part of your political process. It’s constantly in the media. It’s brought up by the candidates. Religion is becoming entrenched as a major feature of the presidential race. And all presidential candidates now have to play the game and pander to the religious leaders. The candidates get the votes from them, and then they have to pay the piper and look the other way while these religious groups run roughshod over your rights.
It’s not the religious individual voter that bothers me — it’s the fact that the religious now appear to be the most powerful lobbying group in the U.S.
And I suppose that is why I am so uncomfortable with it.
Napoleon
NPR is all I listen to on the radio (well and baseball and football) but take some advise, ditch the disc changer and get an i-pod and and attachment to use it with your car radio (it will transmitt to an unused channel) then podcast everything you like on NPR and load your i-pod with your CDs, then you can listen to whatever you want whenever you want in your car. I have a Nano with something like 8GB of memory. It keeps an amazing amount of material on it.
Napoleon
I would think so!
myiq2xu
Conservatively Liberal’s former blog hangout (which explains his morbid fascination)
MobiusKlein
Is
too much to spend on electing a president? Seems like we, the country, could spend that money on better things than that.
(One Billion is my estimate, but probably undercounting it a bunch.)
Warren Terra
I know no-one expects McCain’s policies to make sense, but could we maybe discuss a bit his proposal at the Saddleback event to have a $7000 per child tax credit?
I mean, a $7000 tax deduction I could see – according to comments in a previous thread it’s currently $1800 per kid, which seems low, and maybe $7000 would make sense – but a tax credit is different; it’s huge. To get the comparable deduction, multiply by three or more – and that’s at the top bracket. If implemented, McCain’s proposed tax credits would mean that a household with 2 kids making more than the median household income wouldn’t pay any income tax at all. I’m all for helping out, but that seems a bit much.
cleek
i had one of them, but couldn’t get a decent signal.
next car will have an AUX port on the stereo so i can pipe the iPod directly in.
Conservatively Liberal
She does look like your type, there is no disputing that one bit. Are you hoping for kids?
rawshark
What’s an RCO?
rawshark
Get a DICE, not a FM hookup. I can control my Ipod using the buttons on the stereo and the song name appears in the stereo’s window. I stuff the Ipod out of sight. They make them for almost all cars and installation isn’t too hard at all.
Dennis - SGMM
The disturbing part is that it’s not enough to be religious, you must be religious in the same way (Christian, preferably born again and Protestant) as the majority of your fellow religious citizens. Note that Mitt Romney, in every other way an exemplary candidate for Republicans, came a cropper in no small part because he’s a Mormon while “cross in the dirt” McCain steams on to his party’s nomination.
Oddly enough, the conflation of religiosity with governance hasn’t resulted in any advances in ethics, morals or effectiveness. A skeptical old Buddhist would be tempted to observe that after a scoundrel wraps himself in the flag, he hefts a crucifix to club down any remaining doubters.
Conservatively Liberal
I see that
myiq2xuGoatBoy likes to brag.libarbarian
My favorites responses:
From the Prolific “George, New Jersey” we have :
Wasn’t the GWOT supposed to be WWIV? Now we’re back to the beginning of WWIII? If this was a TV show I’d fire the writers.
WTF???
CUCKOO!
The mind boggles
jibeaux
Back a bit to the subject of religion, I wouldn’t say that “the religious” are a lobbying group, exactly. I would say that many people here are religious, probably most would self-identify as religious, and for many people that guides decisions they make about all sorts of things. I don’t think that they want the same things, though, as the lobbying portion would imply. For many people, religion guiding their voting decisions means nothing more than praying on their vote before they do it — for nonbelievers, that would be basically thinking about their vote first.
There are the lobbying groups like Focus on the Family, etc., but I would not consider them to have a tremendous amount of mainstream pull, although they, and groups like them, do constitute a significant voting bloc that, as they’ve demonstrated, have the power to make or break elections. Which are two different things.
As for being covered in the media, debates, etc., it’s simply where we are, right now. There isn’t, to my mind, a way to change what people are interested in hearing about and what captures their attention. I think that religion is something likely to change somewhat demographically, i.e. as time goes on we will probably become less rigidly religious, and there will be some organic shifts, kind of the way opinions shift over time about gay marriage. So to a relentless pragmatist like myself, if there’s nothing really to be done about the fact that people are interested in candidates’ views on faith and their vote may be swayed by what they have to say on the subject — then the answer is to sway that vote.
Napoleon
I would guess Regimental Commanding Officer.
Punchy
What he said. Minus the vitriol.
Dennis - SGMM
Well it’s hard to deny that the conflation of religiosity with governance hasn’t resulted in gains for America. You need only look at the efficiency, high ethical standards, and prudence of the Bush administration to be convinced that having a mouthful of “Praise the Lord” and a handful of “Gimme!” is the path that we must follow for our greater glory.
Punchy
In 2008, this is the equivalent of someone in 2001 saying “ditch the cassettes, get a CD player”.
IOW, who doesn’t already own an Ipod?
Tsulagi
They do actually exist in the wild. Decent, intelligent conservatives, not the retarded Purple Heart bandaid, Bible humping version that is the Party of Bush.
Martin
A lot of younger evangelicals (
Krista
I don’t own an iPod. I do have an mp3 player, but it’s just a dinky little thing. I only use it for when I go for a run or a walk. I think it’s a Sansa, or something like that.
In the car it depends on where I’m going. If it’s to work and back (15 minutes), I just put on the hard rock station from PEI. If it’s a longer trip, then it’s CBC if there’s anything interesting on (I always enjoy “Q with Jian Ghomeshi”), or CDs otherwise.
Ah, but that’s the question: is the coverage proportionate to the interest? Because looking at the coverage, you would think that the candidates’ faith is one of the top 3 pressing concerns of all Americans. I’m curious as to whether that is actually the case.
wasabi gasp
No iPod here. I rigged up an 8-track to a car battery and carry it around in a old Mac Plus backpack onto which I magik-markered iPlod.
jibeaux
I am completely in favor of calling religious hypocrites and religious zealots on their flaws. I just want, out of deference to my wonderful, selfless, generous, Obama-loving, and deeply religious mother, point out that being religious — even religious wherein your faith informs your political choice — does not necessarily mean intolerant, hateful, spiteful, or hypocritical. I would say it does not even usually mean that. I would say that when it does, you are much more likely to be on TV or all over the internet.
Which makes it kind of ironic, in a not-bad way, that this was a forum hosted by Rick Warren. Rick Warren may have some funny ideas about evolution, but he is not by any stretch of the imagination an intolerant or hateful religious figure and he’s not a tool of the religious right. The Purpose Driven Life has sold 25 million copies. (admittedly, I’m sure that’s worldwide, but still: 193 million registered U.S. voters as of the last census.) It stands to reason that someone with the political savvy of Barack Obama is going to try to talk to Rick Warren’s readers in the language they speak. I’d be rather upset if he didn’t.
peach flavored shampoo
I cant effin’ believe it took a State Supreme Court to ajudicate this.
Where the hell has common sense, not to mention, simple professionalism, gone?
myiq2xu
I think I figured out why Conservatively Liberal (aka Goatse) hates me so bad.
I won’t let people forget he was defending McCain back in January. I’m guessing he thought he could get away with it because his boss (Turdblossom) told him that no way would McCain get the nomination. Oops!
Back in January I made fun of McCain, saying he looked like the Crypt Keeper and Goatse got all upset, claiming I made fun of McCain’s POW experience. But guess who is bashing McCain’s POW experience now?
Then:
Now:
Conservatively Liberal = Goatse = ratfucker
BTW – McCain does look like the Crypt Keeper
jibeaux
Hard to say. When people talk about “media bias”, I personally consider the biggest media bias to be towards what sells rather than what may be much more important. So I conclude that if the media covers something a fair bit, it is something people care about. Also, 25 million copies is a lot. Also, I don’t have the polling handy, but I know the U.S. beats pretty much everyone around with people self-identifying as Christian and identifying religion as very important to them.
This is an interesting poll I found — their methodology is different from others w/r/t identification of the person’s religion, and I don’t know enough about polling to really evaluate that. Also “atheists and agnostics” are classified as a faith group, (the poll says Obama wins 18 out of 19 faith groups!) which I guess may be technically true although for me that was an unexpected “faith group”…
Xenos
That is certainly true for the independently wealthy over-40 set at the church. It certainly is true of the Southern Baptists, and also for the culture-war revanchistes of the charismatics. In all cases, these people are not reactionary assholes because their religion tells them to be this way, they have their backward religious affiliations because they are reactionary assholes. They liked McCain spitting out the talking points, because they go to church in order to get talking points, and to get their egos stroked.
Obama may have appealed to their kids, but not that audience.
Face
This thread has just set an all-time internet record for the most times a non Mikey Kaus-related post has garnered the insult “goat fucker”.
Congrats, you 2nd-graders.
Martin
Pay up.
The fundie circle lies outside the others since there are non-Protestant/non-Evangelical fundies to contend with as well.
Corner Stone
And just to add onto this a little – it’s clear, at least to me, that the far right “religious” side of the spectrum will use any dirty shit they can to smear and fear their members into not voting for Obama.
Here’s just one little thing from NRLC and how they are flat out lying about Obama’s vote on one specific issue. Doesn’t matter if they know they are lying, their members have already swallowed this and internalized it.
NRLC aka liars
via Digby
Corner Stone
Quite similar to Conservatively Liberal and his beloved goat semen.
Zuzu's Petals
Probably not news to anyone here that he also lost his son in Iraq. Making this one of the most heartbreaking and insightful pieces I’ve read in a long time:
“I Lost My Son to a War I Oppose”
rawshark
Thanks. I could use a glossary of these terms when I watch Generation Kill or any military based entertainment. I never know what anyone’s talking about.
myiq2xu
Really?
What was the old record?
KRK
Thanks, jibeaux, for this:
As for the electoral impact of Obama’s appearance at the Saddleback Church event, it matters at the margins and the margins are all that matters these days in presidential elections. The religious right is already dissatisfied with McCain. When a guy like Rick Warren stands up and says the equivalent of “I may not agree with Barack Obama on everything, but I like him and I trust him,” that may not mean that many more votes cast for Obama, but it essentially gives religious right voters the out to not vote if they don’t like either candidate, since it’s not the end of the world if Obama wins.
JL
I know this has been rehashed but has anyone mentioned that
When he first came on stage he said that he was sitting in the room and joked about how he tried to listen through the walls. Since when is a limo with sattelite and blackberries an enclosed room? Hell with his reinventing history, he lied and Rick Warren laughed at his statement.
ThymeZone
I did, and you can watch the entire thing online.
After the show was over, I went to Amazon and ordered his book. He is the most competant and articulate spokesman for the view that our foreign policy is on the wrong track, that I have ever heard. He teaches the subject and has the military background to back it up and knows his material chapter and verse.
The most compelling voice on this topic that I have ever heard.
I am eagerly looking forward to reading his new book.
ThymeZone
And the of course there is this weasely piece of shit.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned. I dont have time to scan the thread for it.
myiq2xu
Shocking!
Next you’ll tell me that the hooker I bought in Tijuana wasn’t really a virgin.
The Moar You Know
God, you guys missed the point, really:
This isn’t really a faith issue and everyone knows it. The competent candidate happens to be black. The utterly incompetent one, a hotheaded greedy trust-fund kid, trying to show up his daddy (where have we seen this before?), with all the morals of a crack-addicted prostitute, is white.
This election will, pure and simple, be a forum on race relations here in America and nothing else.
AkaDad
Obama stutters while reading scripture. This is typical when you’re a closet Muslim.
myiq2xu
Now all we have to do is figure out how to get people to listen to him (and people like him) before the next clusterfuck, instead of afterwards.
We have that 20/20 hindsight thing down pat, it’s foresight we keep fucking up on.
srv
You know, I have an idear for winning them over.
Let’s say you are hankering for The Rapture. If BHO was the anti-christ, wouldn’t voting for him bring it sooner?
Just sayin, it’s probably crazy enough to work.
Napoleon
He was fantastic, and pulled no punches. And his conclusion was something I have never ever heard any observer ever make on TV or in print, or for that matter even the blogs, which is that the problem is the American people (btw, something that I concluded 15 years ago, that we really did get the government we wanted/disserved). It’s not something that the government hoist onto the unwitting public, but something when you get right down it, that gives the people what they want.
JL
You are missing the point of my post. When McCain came on stage during the Faith Forum, he said that he was sitting in the cone of silence during Obama’s interview, trying to listen through the walls, a limo is not a cone of silence. That was a lie and Warren laughed. They both knew he was not sitting in the room but the audience didn’t. Who cares about his faulty memory and his crosses in the sand, he lied.
maxbaer (not the original)
Just read “Limits of Power.” Bacevich packs a lot in a small book. He doesn’t spare any presidents from criticism. I think the only prez who comes close to praise is Carter for the “malaise” speech. Believe he mentions that in the interview as well.
If you haven’t read Chalmers Johnson, Nemesis and Sorrows of Empire are worthwhile. I wish the American Empire Project well. But, I’m afraid it’s late in the game. Our political parties need a serious shake-up if an imperial soft landing is to be achieved.
nightjar
Amen! to that. It’s not hard to knock out the Corner Stone. Now someone point him in the right direction, he’s late for the Sun Queen Coronation.
chopper
dumbass, pointing out that the guy brings up the fact that he was a POW 20 times a day isn’t bashing his actual POW experience. are you retarded or something?
Corner Stone
Hmmmmm, well Obama did come out swinging the other night with this –
And it’s quite clear from the biblical perspective that the Devil knows scripture –
So it’s pretty certain that BHO is in fact the Anti-Christ…except my go-to guy for all things religious and Christian, Tim LeHaye, says that Obama isn’t the A-C, but merely *similar* to the A-C. At this point I’m not sure if BHO is in fact the A-C, or is just warming to the role.
One thing is for certain, if Obama is not at this moment in time the Anti-Christ, then I feel confident he soon will be.
Oh and BTW – he said “my brothers” instead of the sometimes common “least of these”. It’s clear that BHO is a black angry black muslim black man. There’s just no getting around it.
myiq2xu
Something
The Moar You Know
Worse. It wasn’t really a goat. It was a pig with some hair glued on it.
You can’t tell me Pastor Holy Holy Holiest Man O’ Jesus Warren, whose soul, car, house, education and health care is bought and paid for by fundies, would have, in any way, shape, or form, tried to kneecap Obama in this debate. No way. It didn’t happen.
myiq2xu
Jeebus, the pet-ophila on this blog is disgusting
Corner Stone
Reading comprehension fail. Can’t say it’s surprising.
The quote you pulled from KRK isn’t a response to me and he goes on to say:
Which…is pretty much the point of my previous post. I said, McCain, Obama, pray for Armeggedon and they wouldn’t be voting for BHO. So not real clear how this has much to do with me except for the tangential quote where jibeaux says not all Christians are bad people – to which I agree as my mother is a deeply religious and sincere person. I, however, am neither of those things – not her fault.
jibeaux started this off by using a phrase, “some heavily Christian, even evangelical votes” which I took to mean seriously warped fundies, IMO, evangelicals almost always are. I expounded on the thought that fundies would not ever vote for Obama, and I stand by that. I’ve lived in TX my whole life and have seen more religious hypocrisy and intolerance than Conservatively Liberal has turgid male members. IMO, a huge majority of self-identified Christians, as well as the further right of the species aka evans and fundies, will *not* vote for Obama no matter what he says at a church meeting.
libarbarian
Looks like we got another Scott Beauchamp
Who will track down this traitor for us?
JL
Okay, Call me naive, but I would think that McCain and Warren lying about the so-called cone of silence, would be news. Afterall didn’t they find out that Obama used words similar to Gov. Pathrick and not give him credit.
JL
Okay, Call me naive, but I would think that McCain and Warren lying about the so-called cone of silence, would be news. Afterall didn’t they find out that Obama used words similar to Gov. Pathrick and not give him credit.
Face
Sorry, Evangellys are going to vote for Bob Barr. See, both his initials are “B”, which is how the Bible starts, so by electing him, they’re reinventing Teh Jesus. And dogging evolution. Plus, “Robert C. Barr” has exactly 11 letters, just as many as Jesus Christ, so really, Barr-man is just another second coming of Our Lord. If they want quicker Rapture, quicker lines at Arby’s (and better Horsey Sauce), and more quickies, they know for whom to punch the ballot.
Who’s Barr’s running mate? FWIW, who’s Nader’s?
JL
I meant Gov. Patrick of MA and yes, I am naive. I do have another question According to http://abcnews.go.com/politics John McCain is looking for
and Obama is
So does this mean that we are headed for a military state if McCain wins?
Punchy
Just start calling every counter-top remodeler in the area, and see who’s got an upgrade lately. Clearly the anti-patriot.
Noah
How about some pointless VP predictions?
JL
Thanks, Better that ABC’s caption.
nightjar
No, you jumped in with both feet that No Evangelicals will vote for Obama period. And you labeled all Evangelicals as Fundies, which usually means Christian Right. Hell, 20-30 percent of self described evangelicals voted for Kerry and that’s before the last 4 years of the Bush meltdown. The truth is there are significant movements within the EV community to break away from the political right and begin to look at issues independently, such as the environment, fighting poverty, etcc. No one knows the extent they will vote for Obama, especially the youth, as has already been pointed out.
And it is irrelevant whether or not KRK was speaking directly to you or not, she is right about the margins being in play . And you are wrong with blanket stereotypes of Evangelical Christians.
LanceThruster
Actually, I think that is a good point. I heard on the BBC the day before from some of Warren’s parishioners who said previously they made gay marriage and abortion priority issues but now that the economy is so messed up that that wouldn’t be their number one concern. It was rather sad that they didn’t see before that the economic health (or lack thereof) the nation has a much greater impact on people’s well-being than what should be considered a personal choice but that is the way that the Reich Wing frames such issues (the decline and fall of Uhmurrican values).
Brachiator
You’re naive.
Are you talking about John McCain or George W. Bush?
JL
Brachiator, But all repub friends say with Clinton, it wasn’t about the sex, it was the lying. It’s the old adage IOKYAR.
The Moar You Know
Exactly my point.
myiq2xu
Did she own a blue dress?
Ned Raggett
Kinda funny here:
Television Starts to Court the Young Voter
Specifically, please notice the median age featured in the two photographs.
Martin
Correct. For those that still seem to have trouble with the notion:
Trinity UCC is an evangelical church. UCC is an evangelical denomination. Rev. Wright is an evangelical pastor as is Pastordan at DKos. Obama attends an evangelical church. UCC runs the ads that welcome gays into their churches. UCC has openly gay pastors.
There are heaps of liberal evangelicals out there just as there are heaps of conservative ones. The distinction between evangelicals and protestant fundamentalists is a significant one – and there aren’t all that many fundamentalists out there, but they’re pretty damn loud when they want to be.
bootlegger
Actually Bacevich did predict the clusterfuck in Iraq, and so did I.
One thing Bacevich was clear about when we were pounding the free pinot grigio the department paid for was that this is a problem that WE have to fix, not the politicians and not the media, but WE THE PEOPLE. In fact he may have said it just that loud after the fifth glass (I should say my 5th glass, I didn’t count his).
bootlegger
Actually Bacevich did predict the clusterfuck in Iraq, and so did I.
One thing Bacevich was clear about when we were pounding the free pinot grigio the department paid for was that this is a problem that WE have to fix, not the politicians and not the media, but WE THE PEOPLE. In fact he may have said it just that loud after the fifth glass (I should say my 5th glass, I didn’t count his).
Corner Stone
You:
Me:
To me, 70 to 80% is a huge majority but maybe not to others. I get your point that after the last 4 years of Bush who knows:
And it’s my contention that this is all smoke with absolutley no change coming in this election. I guess we’ll see shortly.
I’m not sure what we’re arguing about at this point.
I slandered all evangelicals, stereotyped them into being nutballs and stating clearly that IMO they will overwhelmingly NOT vote for Obama. And from my biased little world view and lifetime of dealing with self-identified “evangelicals” sometimes aka “Holy Rollers”, “Hypocrits” or “Assholes”, I stand by the slur that as a whole they are an evil intolerant group. I haven’t met one yet where I did not silently caution myself to not turn my back on them. Mean, petty, spiteful, grudge holding, nosy, jealous, ignorant, evil little fuckers. Always looking to see what someone else has. Looking to deny them it, take it away, ban it, or castigate them for it.
And if it is your contention that it doesn’t matter who a poster is responding to, and it’s just fine to take anything you like from anyone and start harshing on someone else about it – ok. Good to know.
And the margins count every time. Were you asleep during 2000 when the 1 vote margin put Bush in office, or in 2004 when the tiniest of margins in 1 state kept him there?
This isn’t exactly a stunning point.
nightjar
YAWN
4tehlulz
Corner Stone is neo-Wilfred.
Andrew
Obama just needs to pick Michael Phelps as VP and then they don’t even have to bother campaigning any more. Visa and Speedo will take care of it.
ThymeZone
As did I and a number of other people. No disrespect to Bacevich, or you, but it really wasn’t that hard to do. Some history of the Arab world, some history of Iraq, some critical examination of the supposed reasons for the war, were really all it took.
You know, the stuff that the people in the White House didn’t have time for.
The Moar You Know
The “stopped clock” is right for his one time in a day. I couldn’t agree more – even most of the self-described “liberal” ones (a beast so rare it’s hardly worth mentioning, but they ARE out there) tend to be very rigid, moralizing, self-righteous jerks. The conservative ones (who call themselves “evangelical” but might as well call themselves Taliban) are the reason I own guns – they’re the kind of people who kill others for fun.
Punchy
They could use all those gold medals to help pay off the debt.
myiq2xu
They were busy reading “My Pet Goat”
(so was Conservatively Liberal)
Kinda defines things, don’t it?
Paul L.
Explains this. Progressives control freaks in action.
Jackboots Crush Bacon Dogs
Brachiator
It’s a freakin’ political campaign. If a candidate doesn’t look for an edge, he or she is a fool. And I don’t know whether Warren is a Republican, but if he misled about the cone of silence, nobody gives a rat’s ass, nor is it clear as to what weight anybody should give the lie.
I’ve been listening to (mainly local reaction to the forum) and reading posts here and elsewhere. There are people who felt that a church-sponsored forum should never have taken place, others who are up in arms to various degrees over what was said about same-sex marriage, abortion or stem cell research. Some want to express disgust that evangelicals have been granted any political legitimacy. The “cone of silence” thing barely registers.
Actually, to expand upon your point, there are people who have been totally satisfied with the incompetent Bush, and who may be equally happy with the barely competent McCain, because they both promise the illusion of safety and security.
McCain is coming just short of promising war against Russia and those who think that tough-talk and saber-rattling can “get ‘er done” are easily pacified by the fantasy that we can just kick some Russkie ass with no repercusions.
In some ways, Obama is a superior candidate to both Gore and Kerry, and these guys good easily come on TV and ask the nation, “OK, the economy is a shambles and the country is directionless. What the hell were you people thinking? What are you still smoking?”
Zifnab
Top grade commentary from our 1st Grade poster.
Laura W
As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.- H. L. Mencken (1880 – 1956)
Zifnab
I disagree strongly. Bush isn’t making people feel safe and that is just one reason among many that has caused more traditional conservatives to distance themselves from the Republican Party. One reason I think McCain picked up such a head of steam coming out of the New Hampshire primary was his ability to tap the reasonable and intelligent conservative voter demographic. While Gulliani was huffing and puffing about 9/11, McCain was doing more than just touting Vietnam street cred. He was getting wonky, like his counterpart Hillary Clinton, and he was talking details and strategy while Romney spewed bullshit and Huckabee dodged Iraq entirely.
One of the central attacks against Obama – the attack against his experience – is designed to bring back the Security Mom vote to the party specifically because Bush has spent the last seven years squandering it. It’s not a matter of making people feel secure under Bush. They’ve just got to make them feel insecure under Barry. If anything, they want to keep people in the constant state of panic that lets them pass Patriot Acts and conduct boondoggle wars. They want to channel that fear and insecurity into political power. The ham-handed initiatives and Color Coded Alerts and bungling bureaucracies are designed to make you feel scarred to let Republicans go. But the element of fear and helplessness isn’t supposed to go away.
ThymeZone
There actually is no such book AFAIK, I think it’s a story.
But as fiction, it certainly has merit. Why else would the most powerful man in the world be teaching it to our children?
myiq2xu
Because he is a dumbass goatfucker?
The Grand Panjandrum
Less than half a century later his words were proven true.
ThymeZone
Oh, that. Well, sure.
And really, we are giving goatfuckers a bad name.
Tsulagi
As did more than a few in the active duty military. Maybe not reaching clusterfuck proportion, though. You could righteously use one of Condi’s patented “No one could ever have predicted” when it came to the monumental level of stupidity and incompetence the civilian admin brought to bear on the mission after Saddam’s statue fell. That level was mind boggling. Like they were all in a race for Most Stupidest Fucker on the Planet gold medal and breaking all world record times.
Many knew it was bogus before it even started.
Three-star Greg Newbold, then Director of Operations for the Joint Chiefs and likely the next Marine Corps Commandant resigned rather than continue planning the invasion. He wasn’t alone. Also, Franks and his staff knew the WMD rationale was bogus.
ThymeZone
And checking the scores, I see that PaulL has the silver locked up.
Brachiator
Too funny. The McCain crowd looks absolutely decrepit.
The story details are even more telling:
Meanwhile, a NYT story about the TV show Gossip Girl indicates what the demographics are like at the other end of the forest:
Obviously, the Gossip Girl audience may not be heavily into voting, but the age difference between this group and the news demographic is startling.
That neither Bush nor McCain is more loudly shouted down by the GOP rank and file when they get all chest-thumpy over the Russia-Georgia conflict suggests to me that the “security at all costs” crowd is still in Bush’s corner.
That seems like such a long time ago. Now that Obama is the presumptive nominee, McCain is keeping his supporters happy with nonsensical happy talk about getting a victory in Iraq. And at the Saddleback Church forum, McCain was never more clearly engaged than when he was pushing his near suicidal vision of foreign policy, which seems to consist of little more than making war or threatening to make war. And coming out of the debate, pundits have reacted to this with little more than “Cool!”
I don’t see that we disagree much here. I also don’t see much evidence that Security moms have strongly defected to Obama.
McCain is clearly attacking Obama on the experience issue, but oddly enough, Straight Talking John is not offering a steady, rational alternative, and if the press let up its protective shield, it might be more clearly seen that McCain seems to be jonesing for the “victory” over somebody, somewhere that eluded him while he was a captive POW. To be blunt, McCain seems to be to be unhinged here and says stuff that no one who had real experience as a war planner would ever say.
And yet, this stuff is still finding appeal with some conservatives, and is positively energizing the neo-cons.
Ah, I see the difference here. People aren’t in a panic. They want to believe that the US can wage war against anyone and we will never lose and that the pain inflicted will always be minor and limited to those who volunteer.
And Patriot Acts and waterboarding will only be inflicted on “them,” never on “us.”
If you haven’t noticed, the Republicans have already got political power. They are playing for keeps.
Conservatively Liberal
Now you are going to Mexico for a good goat pounding? You really have some exotic tastes there Mikey!
I can understand why you are so upset with me Mikey. Challenging me to a pissing contest was not a smart move, but it’s not my fault that you squat while I stand. You were thinking it was all about volume when everyone knows that it’s really distance that matters.
Better luck next time GoatBoy.
Mikey blew that a long time ago. The goat, that is.
Laura W
Bob Saget is a goat fucker. Or a goat blower!
I know you think I’m making this up just to fit into this thread, but I taped Comedy Central’s roast of BS last night and just started it.
A GOAT gets off the elevator with him, the implication being, as he zips up his fly, that he had sexual relations with THAT GOAT!
Just when I thought I had nothing of value to contribute here.
Krista
Blair Waldorf for V.P.!
The Other Steve
I support this initiative.
Amethyst Initiative aims to change the drinking age back to 18. The signatories are university presidents from across the nation.
All the 21 year old drinking age did was make college students break the law to get alcohol. And since it was generally so hard to get, it generally always resulted in binge drinking.
Conservatively Liberal
What doesn’t make sense to me is that 18 year olds legally have the right to smoke, vote, have sex, and join the military to sacrifice their lives if needed, but they can’t have a drink. The worst part is that drinking goes along well with the rights listed above! ;)
Seriously, I grew up in across in Washington, just across the border from Idaho and we all drove over to State Line, Post Falls or Coeur d’Alene to get shitfaced because the drinking age was 19. They later changed it to 21, but I don’t remember any increases in traffic fatalities due to underage drinking. At least it was never in the news, and I don’t remember any instances but I am sure that there were a few.
The Washington State Patrol watched that section of the interstate like hawks too. I always felt like I was running a gauntlet but I (nor anyone I know of) never got pulled over or busted for a DWI.
If you can legally die for your country, you should be able to drink.
Conservatively Liberal
OT:
Noted at the GoS, and reported on by the AP in a discussion of McCain Vice-Presidential choices. They must be getting back to reporting actual facts once again.
Conservatively Liberal
Even funnier? The byline:
ROFLMAO!
iluvsummr
Actually, you and Rev C. Welton Gaddy both. Excerpt from his statement on the Saddleback forum:
Unfortunately, not many people pay attention to the Interfaith Alliance.
Ninerdave
I’ll do you two better. Make the legal age 18 and make drugs legal. Tax the shit out of both and put it into rehab
Ninerdave
Funny, I just bought two last weekend in the Mission district of San Francisco. You know…that hot bed of liberalism.
Tool.
Original Lee
I believe (having been in the demographic at the time) that the move to 21 as the drinking age was to protect the younger teens, since 18-year-olds and (sometimes) 19-year-olds are still in high school. At least at my school, when the drinking age was 18, you celebrated turning 18 by having a kegger and inviting all of your friends, which could include kids as young as 14. Some of the more upright among us drew the line at serving liquor to kids under 16, but most, I’m sorry to say, took a certain pleasure in getting the young’uns shitfaced drunk.
I think a more sensible policy would be similar to what some states have for drivers’ licenses. Start out at 16 where you can drink at home under parental supervision, 17 being able to drink in a restaurant or other public venue under parental supervision, and 18 being able to buy and consume on your own.