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This post is in: Site Maintenance, Did You Know John McCain Was A POW?
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.
Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?
Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.
This blog will pay for itself.
Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.
Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.
Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?
Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.
All your base are belong to Tunch.
It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.
If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!
Black Jesus loves a paper trail.
It’s the corruption, stupid.
Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.
Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.
Battle won, war still ongoing.
A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.
Damn right I heard that as a threat.
Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.
And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.
Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.
b-psycho
Does anyone else find it odd that mid-40’s is considered near-as-damn to still a kid when it comes to politics?
L. Ron Obama
Matthew Yglesias: “John McCain is 23 years older than the state of Alaska.”
Michael G
This was lost in the noise of the last thread, but the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that Palin is a choice that was intended to fail. She’s got an easy excuse to leave (special-needs child), by choosing her McCain placates several key demographics, when she drops out McCain gets to choose a more traditional choice and the pundits will praise him for it.
Hell, maybe he’ll use it as an excuse to choose Lieberman–it’s “mavericky”, it will be a clutch decision so he can get away with not choosing a vanilla repub, and once again the press will eat it up.
jbarntt
Does anyone else find it odd that mid-40’s is considered near-as-damn to still a kid when it comes to politics?
I did. Odd isn’t it ? Someone in his mid forties beats the 35 year old requirement by ten years, but is still considered young.
Corner Stone
27 – 17 @ home.
Corner Stone
22 – 27 @ ECU
First post got chopped a little.
eastriver
by POW I assume you mean Palin Of Women?
eastriver
by POW I assume you mean Palin Of Women?
Corner Stone
Dang, don’t know if I’m hitting something early or I’ve turned into a more dysfunctional crossbreed of nightjar/CL.
Point is – some big opener upsets so far today in Men’s Top 25.
N/T.
slag
The media keeps calling McCain’s pick of Palin evidence that he’s a maverick.
If being a maverick means making irrational decisions based on fear, putting politics above governing, having a deep disregard for the intelligence of the average voter, and pandering to the most acrimonious elements of his base, then it seems that George W Bush is quite the Maverick.
Just sayin.
gbear
Or else Piece Of Work.
Joe1347
Wouldn’t succumbing to outside pressure to change his VP pick make McCain look ‘weak’. What kind of ‘real man’ folds if some media know-it-alls don’t like one of his decisions.
JGabriel
Anyone else notice how uncomfortable McCain and Palin look and act around each other?
It’s like they’re both thinking:
jbarntt
The little underlined thing you have:
Did You Know John McCain Was A POW?
I do know that !
It is unfortunate that nothing in his record can compare to the heroism Obama showed as community organizer in Chicago. Chicago is a tough town for a Democrat, for sure. McCain of course had it easy in Hanoi, being an American Navy officer.
I know this to be true because such fine liberal Democrats as Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda told me how nice it was in those hotels in Hanoi where that rascal McCain vacationed.
Fortunately the real work of community organizing was getting down by a real man in Hyde Park. Tough job, but someone’s gotta do it !
Michael G
He doesn’t change his pick; she drops out because she decide she can’t spend enough time caring for her special-needs son. And the pundits get to get up on their high horse and criticize democrats who suggest otherwise as being anti-family.
smiley
I liked this from Cafferty:
More like spokes model than trophy.
Kirk
Actually, I had a thought about the positives of her selection. It’s been hinted at elsewhere, but I don’t think stated explicitly:
Governor Palin was selected because of the boost in the GOTV effort.
As acknowledged in several places, she’s an almost perfect fit for the dominionist leg of the GOP. Said part of the party wasn’t exactly enamored with McCain, flirting hard with just staying home. Unfortunately, the majority of the GOTV soldiers come from this leg.
Add to this the fact that Obama’s been significantly leading McCain in the ground game expenditures and it’s pretty plain that McCain’s in trouble. Palin fixes that.
She enthuses that part of the base. There is an implied promise and a possibility. The promise is that they’re going to have one of their own in place. The possibility is that she will actually be The Decider. Hail Mary indeed, it fires up those volunteers.
That’s her strength. Oh, her shock value (stealing thunder from the Obama speech) and interruption of Dem issues was useful. She’s got all the other strengths and weaknesses mentioned. But the single biggest thing she brings to the table is the same thing Huckabee would have brought, but with less resistance from everyone else.
She’s the GOTV connection for McCain.
Nick
So, the RNC is starting up, and there’s a Category 4 (soon to be 5) hurricane coming my way.
Continuing to do preparations today. Kindof leaning towards staying in, but will make the final decision on evacuating tomorrow morning. In any case, where I’m at is not in danger of flooding, but tornadoes and trees falling down can be a problem.
LiberalTarian
I’m pasting this in its entirety, because I don’t really know what to think, other than, well, I was worried the GOP was turning the US into the USSA, but I think that corner is long past turned:
Scary. Since when did being a concerned citizen mean you were a threat to society?
Kevin K.
People who are comparing Palin to Dan Quayle or Geraldine Ferraro are getting it way wrong. She’s the Republicans’ Thomas Eagleton. Someone should tell Pawlently and Romney to not plan anything big for the next couple of months.
LiberalTarian
Oh, sorry. Source.
JGabriel
Nick:
Damn, that sucks. Take care, man.
And if Gustav does reach Cat 5 tomorrow, get the hell out of there.
.
Kevin K.
Pawlenty … gack. I don’t know what it is about BJ, but I can never escape w/out a typo here. John, can you try a new palette or something? Get me to stop drinking wine at 4 PM? Anything.
JGabriel
LiberalTarian:
January 16, 2001.
.
Dennis - SGMM
Heavily armed coppers roust legal observers.
GOP: fap fap
fap
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fap
fap
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fap
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Joe1347
Are you so sure it’s her son? I suspect that the real mother – Sarah’s 16 year old daughter could make some time to care for her child.
Sorry, but Sarah Palin dropping out will make McCain look weak and indecisive – not matter what the circumstances are.
jbarntt
Kirk Says:
But the single biggest thing she brings to the table is the same thing Huckabee would have brought, but with less resistance from everyone else.
Your post over simplifies conservative politics, and the “dominionist leg of the GOP” comment is ridiculous if you think it is important.
Palin and Huckabee are quite different. I’m a conservative, more on the foreign policy and economic side, but am sympathetic to the social side of it, I just don’t care quite as much about that as some do.
Huckabee is an economic populist, something I loathe; Palin is a standard brand conservative in that regard, which I like. Huckabee is just G. W. Bush with a smoother delivery and religous bigotry. Palin is a pretty straight forward conservative.
To put it bluntly, guys like Bush and Huckabee are liberals who oppose abortion and think Wilson’s foreign policy ideas were good. An odd thing, but there it is.
PC
I think Sarah Palin may be the most qualified candidate ever put forth in the history of the universe. She has the skills, leadership, vision and drive to take America in a bold new direction. In fact, McCain should drop out and the GOP should run a Palin/Palin ticket. The first Palin would be the no-nonsense, corruption busting maverick that runs a state that border TWO countries. The second Palin would be the down-home, folksy, hockey-mom that everyone is going to get to know and love over the 60 days.
Palin/Palin ’08!
SGEW
[Sick again today. Guess I’ll go bother the good folk at Balloon Juice.]
This was my first thought when I read Ambinder’s “scoop” on the mystery plane from Alaska the other night. Specifically: Gov. Palin was chosen in order to squash the convention media bounce (I mean, we all saw the MUP love in tha house on Thurs. night – that had to scare the bejeebus outta the McCain team) and to keep the media’s mighty unblinking eye upon McCain through the convention. And, at some cleverly chosen point thereafter, Palin’s infant child would develop unspecified complications and she would drop out to (all together now) “spend more time with her family.” And McCain would then, sadly and sorrowfully, nominate . . . oh, I don’t know, Bill Kristol. Or whomever. (Pawlenty was my guess).
Upon further thoughtful (read: sober) reflection, I think this is too clever by half (and would backfire like an Edsel running on jet fuel). Others here and elsewhere have picked apart the Eagleton theory, and conclude that the one candidate you don’t want to be associated with is Mr. George McGovern (beyond the “Mc” coincidence, naturally). Instead, I lean towards:
Exactly. However, this may be the most damning thing about this choice: that Sen. McCain (and/or his campaign team) believed that shoring up the legendary base was an important – in fact, critical – factor in the V.P. nomination game.
The Republican base will not win this election for Sen. McCain. The numbers simply are not there, as they were in 2000 and 2004. Independent voters and the Democratic GOTV effort’s efficacy (or lack thereof) will tip the electoral calculus one way or the other. And we just do not have the polling data nor the historical precedents to even hazard a guess as to how Gov. Palin’s impact will be on these voters come November.
(As to the so-called P.U.M.A. factor, I concur that it is an imaginary media concoction created in collaboration with the Republican strategists. It is a mythical beast that will have negligible importance in the 2008 election. Sorry, you-know-who.)
Oh, I’d say around January, 2001 or so. Just a guess.
[partially cross-posted: I duly apologize]
smiley
HA HA HA HA:
That was in PA. Ready to lead from day one!
JGabriel
JBarntt:
Yes! JBarntt brings the CRAZY!
This should be fun.
.
nightjar
The stoopids?
SGEW
JGabriel beat me to it. But, we must admit, it was a pretty easy question to answer.
jbarntt
Hi Kevin,
You said:
People who are comparing Palin to Dan Quayle or Geraldine Ferraro are getting it way wrong. She’s the Republicans’ Thomas Eagleton. Someone should tell Pawlently and Romney to not plan anything big for the next couple of months.
Uh no. Eagleton she is not. Eagleton was a good man and was thrown under the bus by McGovern after it came out he had had electro-shock treatment for depression. I understand McGovern’s political reaction, i.e., dump him, but that was an unfortunate reaction to how he thought the public would react.
You’re right that the Quayle and Ferraro are wrong comparisons: The first had far more experience than Palin or Obama, but wasn’t sure about spelling tomato vs. potatoe. The latter had a husband with mafia ties.
Sorry if my spelling of those veggies is off, it confuses me too ;)
Dan
UM losing at halftime. John should be happy (so far).
LiberalTarian
So I watched the video of the 18-22 year olds who got visited by their local friendly SWAT/Homeland Security folks. I suspect they were turned in by local neighbors who read too much Malkin. But geez Louise, overreact much?
It’s like the GOP wants to radicalize the proletariat.
Martin
McCain is right though. Palin helps secure the base – because McCain was trying to do it and failing. It was a critical factor. Expect McCain to tack back toward maverick/independent from here on to try and get the middle. Even that won’t be enough, but what alternative do they have? They know they are going to lose this race if they don’t do something different. Their polling is telling them that there are few if any winning strategies, and they are doing their best to pull something workable together.
The polling data is out there – be sure of that, but it’s not public. Palin doesn’t win the election. She stems the bleeding and allows a strategy change. It’s up to McCain now to get the independents. The attacks on Obama to damage his brand to Democrats didn’t work. They’re running low on options at this stage. Having a totally mismanaged campaign is preventing them from turning this around.
jbarntt
JGabriel Says:
Yes! JBarntt brings the CRAZY!
Why is it crazy ? Both advocate big government solutions to social problems, like Medicare, education, immigration, etc.
These are not conservative positions, they are liberal positions. Guys like Bush and Huckabee are essentially JFK/Truman type liberals, with religion thrown in in Huckabee’s case.
LiberalTarian
Yeah, when you run out of excuses for the radical conservative GW Bush, you call him liberal.
Geez. Shut the fuck up.
Jon H
Woah. Everyone check out Joe1347’s link up there.
demimondian
Oh, boy! We have a crazee. lying conservative!
Sorry, jbarntt, Bush and McCain are modern conservatives, just like you. Now that their policies have turned out to be disaters, you’re pulling the common lie out of your ass, that they weren’t “really” conservatives.
Yes, they were, and yes, they are — and so are you. Wear your wastrel slave badge with shame, because you deserve it.
Googootz
The McCain-Palin campaign will probably attempt to package her as some knid of modern-day Theodore Roosevelt. TR was a naturalist, conservationist, a maverick; the governorship of the USA’s last frontier – Alaska – carries an echo of of another Republican governor who went on to be a vice president and then assume the presidency.
I’m not believing the BS, but I think a large enough chunk of the American public will.
The Obama-Biden team is going to have to go on the attack, picking at the Palin administration’s scandals in Alaska. It will be an uphill battle, because the Republicans will use Clinton’s “screech ‘misogynist!’ ” defense to deflect and obfuscate.
Don’t misunderestimate the Republican team’s strategy. Remember, it’s not directed toward the kind of people who read blogs like this one — they are after people who catch sound bites on the evening news, on CNN while they’re waiting in line at the bank, or in the dentist’s waiting room.
dbrown
If Gustav becomes Cat V, even super strong high rises will be destroyed. Do not stay and face a Cat V. The surge will be terrible (10-20 + ft) and the winds beyond belief – debris at over 150 mph will ruin your day. The odds are you will not live to talk about it. Look up what those monsters do and believe they do it, and that you will be there and you will then be its target. Mortals we all be.
As
Eye-candyGov Palin is not a good person. She is petty, vindictive and a coward – using her power to strike at people by abusing her power is what cowards do. IF that is your idea of a good home girl republician, you belong in prison with other such good people.JL
Palin is making cookies for the reporters. The toughest question they will ask is “Can I have the recipe please.”
We should not underestimate the talents of Mrs. Palin. Time for me to get some tums.
Kevin K.
jbarntt said:
Hey. I agree that Eagleton was a good man and the whole situation was unfortunate, but I think that McCain may have to throw Palin off the ticket to save his campaign. We’re only a little more than a day into McCain’s VP announcement and there’s already a flood of dirt coming out about her. This was a severely bad pick on his part and he may be left with no choice but to excise her. As it turns out, Gustav may be a blessing for the Repubs because it could buy them another week to regroup and look into making some changes before the convention.
dbrown
WTF? She is less than nothing – besides eye-candy, she is a stupid creationist and zero. Obama and Biden only need to be polite and ignore her until she says the typical stupid thing all such unexperienced people do, and then, just use it. She is the best gift McInsane could give thinking people; let the wing nuts beat their meat over her – she will have no real impact on the election.
jbarntt
LiberalTarian Says:
Yeah, when you run out of excuses for the radical conservative GW Bush, you call him liberal.
Radical conservative ? It’s to laugh. Goldwater, Reagan OK. Ron Paul for sure. Bush ? Give me a break. Huge expansion of Medicare is conservative ? Federalizing education is conservative ? A Wilsonian foreign policy is conservative ?
Bush is conservative on a few issues where he has no control, e.g. abortion, etc., and appoints good judges, to appease the base, otherwise, what about his policies do you see as conservative ?
I see big government control, i.e. liberalism.
SGEW
Damn straight! I’ve experienced a “mere” Cat IV, and it scared the hell out of me, even though I was at a relatively safe remove, and had a solid basement to retreat to.
Do not play chicken with nature, yo. Nature doesn’t even have a steering wheel to throw out the window.
Jon H
FYI, iTunes has free downloadable video of speeches from the DNC.
They also finally have Doctor Who, classic and new, bitches!!!!
demimondian
Dude — don’t hang around for a Cat 5. In fact, if Gustav stays a Cat 4 for several days, and then plows ashore, even as a Cat 2 much less a Cat 3, the storm surge will be immense.
Just for the record, Gustav’s surge at Havana today was 18′. That’s not as big as Camille’s was, but it’s bigger than Katrina’s. If the storm stays as strong as it is and comes straight towards you, get away.
(Personal history: I started a job at FAU on 8/26/1992. I missed Andrew by a few hours. Even in Boca, seventy miles from where Andrew, a fairly small storm, came ashore, the damage was flat out amazing.)
Joshua Norton
I don’t think so. I’ve been researching Mrs. “Hockey Mom” and her hubby. They are Tonya Harding and Jeff Gilooly minus the ice skates. To think that these two people, who moved into the Governor’s Mansion and immediately started fucking with people, would let this theory play out – that they’d spend two months of their valuable, self-centered lives campaigning for a guy who could conceivably drop dead during his first term and land Sarah Palin’s Hockey Mom Ass in the Big Chair and then step aside and hand the keys off to Joementum – are really underestimating the inherent Republican Scumminess of Mrs. and Mr. Palin.
If they got within rock-throwing distance of the Oval Office and were asked to give it up, it would be a safer bet to expect them to bribe John McCain with dirt they’ll no doubt be privy to during the campaign than to just turn around and head back to Anchorage with The Rubes and The Cold and the oh, so small-time Governor’s Mansion.
Bank it. These two are so consumed with ambition and lust for power and the ability to screw with people that they’d probably sooner bring down the entire GOP than give up their seats at the table. If they couldn’t move into the Naval Observatory, past performance suggests they’d just sooner burn it down.
jbarntt
demimondian Says:
Oh, boy! We have a crazee. lying conservative!
Sorry, jbarntt, Bush and McCain are modern conservatives, just like you. Now that their policies have turned out to be disaters, you’re pulling the common lie out of your ass, that they weren’t “really” conservatives.
Yes, they were, and yes, they are—and so are you. Wear your wastrel slave badge with shame, because you deserve it.
First of all conflating me with either Bush or McCain is just a presumption on your part. As to whether either or both are “modern conservatives”, I don’t know. Define what you mean by the term. If all you mean is Bush and McCain then I am not a “modern conservative”.
The rest of your post is incoherent. Can you carry on an argument without personal insults ?
The Moar You Know
You fail Politics 101. The political philosophy that espouses big government control is not liberalism; it is fascism.
But I suspect you already knew that.
But hey, if you are willing to call George W. Bush, McCain, and the rest of your party’s crowd fascists, I will happily agree with you.
Just Some Fuckhead
Crazy JB does make a valid point about Huckabee. He never really got a lot of early traction with religious conservatives because he was viewed as a proponent of “big government” based on some ostensibly liberal positions he took as nominal head of the Republic of Walmart. That, of course, doesn’t make him a liberal which is where Crazy JB goes wrong. It actually makes him a pragmatist, which is worse to doctrinaire conservatives. George Bush, another conservative like Huckabee, is not in fact a pragmatist and therefore palatable to conservatives, despite his catastrophic management of our nation’s finances.
jbarntt
Googootz Says:
Don’t misunderestimate the Republican team’s strategy. Remember, it’s not directed toward the kind of people who read blogs like this one
You got that right, but probably not in the way that you think.
demimondian
You know, you might want to spend a few seconds bothering to learn what the big words you use mean. “Incoherent” doesn’t mean what you think it means, puppy.
As to carrying on an argument, who’s arguing? Not me, Bush-boy. I’m calling you a hypocritical slave with neither morals nor values. You’re not worth arguing with.
carsick
Ha ha, I just saw the RNC’s “Experience” commercial here in Ohio. Didn’t think they’d still be playing that one any more.
SGEW
Joshua Norton:
Hey, your scenario makes me really hope that McCain does try and pull a switcheroo. If this campaign gets anymore like reality tv, I’d just about die from sheer overload.
However:
Come on, Alaska’s actually a really nice state, in many ways, and I kind of believe that Gov. Palin really does love it as much as she says she does (I mean, where else can you eat moose-burgers (delicious, by the way – for real!) with such abandon?). Alaskan politics are as bad as it gets, but the state itself (and many of its inhabitants) are simply lovely. Let’s not fall into the “West Virgina Is Made Of Nothing But Retards And Fail” syndrome that popped up during the primaries.
dbrown
Regan was a conservative and spent money like a drunken sailor – remember he ran up record (for the time) debts. Conservatives have always been big spenders. They are called conservatives because they mostly waste money on military hardware that rarely work but make corporations wealthy alone with all the repubic CEO’s – conservatives just cost us needless money like bushwhack on things that don’t really help anyone, only kills. Like all repucks, your liars are full of it.
Martin
It will hit 5 tonight – no question. Not sure how it’ll be by the time it reaches land, but it’s gonna be a mother of a storm for the next 2 days. And it’s looking to be large – give this one a wide berth, lots of rain, lots of tidal surge. If you are unsure about leaving then you need to leave for this. It’s a ‘don’t fuck around’ storm.
jbarntt
Googootz Says:
I’m not believing the BS, but I think a large enough chunk of the American public will.
You have a fine opinion of your fellow countrymen. If I held your beliefs, I would be opposed to a democratic republic, like ours. Best to give up and let our betters rule us I guess.
Wait a second, Vlad. Putin is on line 2 for you Goog.
dbrown
I don’t what thread you came from but the ones I have been in have said zero that is critical of Alaska.
As for moose burgers, you don’t know good until you have tasted a real crab cake using real Chesapeake bay blue crabs (imported around the world.) And if you are a real man, a soft shelled crab sandwich (just ignore those giant spider legs sticking out the side of the sandwich … )
LiberalTarian
JBarntt underappreciates the evil genius of GW’s conservatism.
Bankrupting the treasury means no money for entitlements. No $$ for medicare, no repayment of the trust fund dollars for Social Security, no money for health, social net and educational programs.
Then again, maybe you do. Whatever. You’ve gotten your troll snick-snack for the day. Fuck off.
Googootz
She’s not black. I thought that kind of crap was largely behind us as a country, but I have gotten quite the education on the subject over the last few months. The Democrats cannot simply ignore them as
(even though they, indeed, are).
The media package is going to be one of a common-sense, soccer mom, folksie, outdoorsie, frontier-grit, True American, vs. the Crypto-Muslim, Obama-X, all your white daughter are belong to us, post-urban, Huckstable-slick, rabble rouser and his uber-cynical, donk apparatchik VP.
Plenty of people will buy into it. My daughter and son are old enough to vote; this will be the first presidential election for both of them. I remind them every time I see them to register and make sure to vote in November. I can’t tell them enough.
jbarntt
JL Says:
Palin is making cookies for the reporters. The toughest question they will ask is “Can I have the recipe please.”
Funny, but I thought only Republicans were sexists assholes. Guess I was wrong.
SGEW
The greatest damage George W. Bush has done to this country is to make many people doubt the superiority of democracy. To wit: Bush won the popular vote in 2004. At the time, I kind of wanted wise alien overlords to come down and force us to accept, say, the reanimated corpse of Thomas Paine to be our omnipotent dictator instead.
I’ve gotten over that feeling, but it lingers still. I’ll rethink the issue on November 5th.
jbarntt
smiley Says:
HA HA HA HA:
The first-term Alaska governor told reporters she was having fun in her new role. “It’s great to see another part of the country.” she said.
That was in PA. Ready to lead from day one!
Guess she hasn’t been to all 57 states like Obama.
Mylegacy
It’s not just the “experience” issue. Palin is a women who admits has never CONSIDERED America’s place in the world. Should McCain/Palin win she would be a heartbeat away from being the President and while definitely not “stupid” she is staggeringly “ignorant” of the threats this nation faces and how to meet them.
Additionaly, her positions on Women’s rights issues are so far out of the American mainstream that the mainstream is not even in sight from her positions. She is pro-life EVEN if the mother’s life is in danger, even in the case of rape, even in the case of incest. She is against birth control, even condomsuse by married couples. She is a creationist far, far, far, right Evangelical Christian from a tiny crazy-right religious community in a valley in Alaska.
This woman is so far out of the mainstream on every issue, is so “ignorant” on SO MANY issues that she doesn’t bear any serious consideration.
AND YET – She is not the issue – her judgement is not the issue – her sex is not the issue. The ISSUE is John McCain’s outrageous LACK OF JUDGEMENT in even thinking for a second that this woman should be heartbeat away from the Presidency. Mrs Palin is a fine woman, a GREAT mother and an exempliary Alaskan – none of which matters – none of which is an issue. John McCain – by chosing her over so many others so vastly more qualified, informed, interested and available is AN INSULT to the American people and shows that in his case “MAVERICK” means as Obama said about him “John, you just don’t get it.”
Bill H
I do believe that story has been debunked. Surprised Kos still has it on board.
SGEW
dbrown:
Wasn’t directed at you. Did I err in attributing the quote? If so, all apologies.
Oh I have, I have. But it’s hard to compare shellfish to burgers, no? Too bad about Chesapeake’s environmental damage . . . I’m gonna miss those cakes when they’re gone!
Careful, buddy.
jbarntt
Hi Kevin, you said:
We’re only a little more than a day into McCain’s VP announcement and there’s already a flood of dirt coming out about her
My guess is that there is nothing to troopergate. McCain’s people aren’t stupid. Of course sometimes smart people make dumb decisions, but I doubt it in this case.
Jake
Anyone else pick up on the little nugget about how Palin doesn’t believe that married couples should use birth control? This extends to her own marriage, which explains why she had a kid so late.
dbrown
A person that supports creation in school is stupid and does not belong as VP or President like bushwhack. She is a coward who attacks innocence people using her power. Hence, a true zero. Perfect for McInsane and eye-candy is her only ability.
Walker
Even if true, this looks to me like the Democratic version of Obama’s birth certificate. Just compare those discussions of Bristol’s belly fat with the kerning arguments we have heard from Republicans. And for it to be true, you are claiming that the hospital that delivered the baby was involved in the cover-up.
I am not saying it is false; if anything this administration makes it so nothing crazy surprises me any more. But this sounds like 9-11 truther territory, and we should not go down this road without real evidence (and I don’t think we really want to go down this road at all).
LiberalTarian
Gah, I just cannot resist hungry children.
Um, you have heard of teh Google? Long before Palin surfaced as a VP choice, TPM Muckraker had her number. She fired a guy she appointed, Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan, because he wouldn’t fire her ex-brother in law.
Then, she knowingly appointed a guy with a sexual harassment past, Kenai Police Chief Chuck Kopp, to the post. He served all of 14 days before he was let go with $10,000 in severance pay.
These faux pas are a matter of public record bubba. Now, I realize that pristine records are only needed for Democratic politicians, but Palin had the resources to vet her picks and choose not to. Kinda like GW Bush and Bernard Kerik. So what, you hate Bush but love Palin?
Right. McCain picked Palin without vetting her (or using teh Google). Not smart. What would that be … stupid?
PC
Just like a liberal, trying to criminalize politics.
dbrown
This makes no sense – why would a Governor do such a dangerous cover up, for what possible reason? So her daughter has a child out of wedlock, big deal. Until I hear one reason that makes any sense, this is rumor silly.
As for the previous “Real Man” comment, I with draw that part … anyone outside Maryland who tries a crab cake is a real man.
jbarntt
dbrown Says:
let the wing nuts beat their meat over her
Just the the sort of erudite commentary I expect on a left wing web site.
That’s the Change we can Hope for with Obama !
Hey dbrown, which dress did you like Michelle in best ?
You are a total asshole. I’m surprised that John Cole would allow such a post on his site. Well, maybe not.
SGEW
Please see this and this, as first referenced by LiberalTarian, above, to understand why we are laughing at you.
demimondian
Look, trisomy 23 is almost unheard of in the children of women under 20 (less that one in 1600) but is relatively common in women of 43 (approx. on in 19). Working out a little basic probability, the odds are almost one hundred to one against the story being true.
The Moar You Know
I know! Damned liberals – God knows Republicans would never do such a thing.
demimondian
Gahh! That’s trisomy 21 — the most common form of Down’s syndrome.
Joshua Norton
Just like a “head up his ass” freep-tard to conveniently forget all their cheers and squawks that anyone who speaks against ChimpCo should be executed. Short term memory really doesn’t exist for you people, does it?
LiberalTarian
Yeah, I think the idea that she adopted her 16-year old’s child is pretty lame. First of all, easy as pie to prove. Mostly, it is just unseemly to go after a teenager. And, frankly, unnecessary. Palin has her share of regular, grown up flaws that make her questionable. Leave the girl alone.
Jon H
dbrown wrote: “why would a Governor do such a dangerous cover up, for what possible reason? So her daughter has a child out of wedlock, big deal. Until I hear one reason that makes any sense, this is rumor silly”
Why? Probably the same sexual shame that drives many teens to get abortions. The Palins wouldn’t be the first Christian family driven to do crazy things when a child strays.
If the Dems wanted to play dirty, of course, they’d insinuate that Palin’s husband is the father of the daughter’s child, and that’s why they covered it up.
JL
John must be getting a lot of traffic even though there are only a few commenters. Normally they don’t send out the wingnuts like jbarntt unless they are worried.
PC
Why would I trust a bunch of moonbats?
Jon H
“Mostly, it is just unseemly to go after a teenager.”
I don’t see it as going after the teenager at all.
demimondian
Um, folks? “Just like a liberal, trying to criminalize politics” is a local trope. It’s meant ironically. (And, unlike Ace, I know what that word means.)
Zuzu's Petals
Worth reading:
maxbaer (not the original)
How about “why do you hate animals so much?”
I’ve hunted. I don’t anymore, but I have no problem with someone killing a deer for food. But, to put a bounty on wolf pups. To fight against federal efforts to protect polar bears. WTF? Senseless bullshit.
Alaska is one of the largest states with one of the smallest populations. And there’s not enough room to maintain some wildlife?
SGEW
Oh. Sorry, my irony-meter exploded when Christine Whitman became the head of the E.P.A., and it has yet to fully recover.
[Things such as this don’t help, naturally. I’m constantly re-checking urls to make sure that news articles aren’t from the Onion.]
Jon H
demimondian wrote: “Look, trisomy 23 is almost unheard of in the children of women under 20 (less that one in 1600) but is relatively common in women of 43 (approx. on in 19). Working out a little basic probability, the odds are almost one hundred to one against the story being true.”
Yet 80% of trisomy 21 kids are born to mothers under 35.
1 in 100 events happen all the time.
The other issues remain – she never looked pregnant, her water broke in Texas and she decided to fly back to Alaska to have the kid, her daughter was out of school for months, and photos of the daughter are at least suggestive of a pregnant tummy.
Mary
Apart from all the logical arguments against the allegations that Palin is covering up her daughter’s pregnancy, it’s just pretty fucking disgusting not just to spread such speculative nonsense about this woman, but to bring her minor daughter into this.
That diarist and everyone else playing this game should be completely ashamed of this bullshit. It’s not right, it’s not kind, it’s not fair, it’s not relevant, it’s not moral, and it makes Democrats and Obama supporters look awful. ENOUGH.
LiberalTarian
Teenage girl gets pregant, gives up baby for adoption, parents cover it up.
Let me spell it out for you. These folks are from a small, religious right town. Insinuating a 16-year old girl was screwing around and gave birth out of wedlock isn’t the kind of thing nice people do to a teenager.
Try to keep up.
jbarntt
The Moar You Know Says:
jbarntt Says: I see big government control, i.e. liberalism.
You fail Politics 101. The political philosophy that espouses big government control is not liberalism; it is fascism.
But I suspect you already knew that.
But hey, if you are willing to call George W. Bush, McCain, and the rest of your party’s crowd fascists, I will happily agree with you.
Politics 101 ? I guess you flunked it. Fascism does indeed espouse big government control, but you failed to mention that communism and her hand maiden, socialism also do so.
Why did you fail to mention this ?
Modern American liberalism is socialistic, it is not the liberalism of Jefferson and Madison. It should be repugnant to any real American.
Oh, nice try calling McCain a Fascist, makes little sense, his father and grandfather fought real fascists, not your stupid political name called ones.
Probably no point in pointing out that McCain fought the commies, as you probably regard them as the good guys.
Jon H
“Apart from all the logical arguments against the allegations that Palin is covering up her daughter’s pregnancy, it’s just pretty fucking disgusting not just to spread such speculative nonsense about this woman, but to bring her minor daughter into this.”
Palin wants to stop girls from being able to have abortions, but she sure has hell isn’t going to adopt their unwanted babies.
SGEW
More to the point, perhaps, even if it were true that Gov. Palin’s child was, in actuality, her daughter’s . . . is this really a political liability?
It sounds like what a heroine in a day-time soap opera might do. I think that there would be many people who would gain respect for her should it prove to be true. It’s real tear-jerker, sympathizing stuff.
Hell, I could very well wind up sympathizing for their whole family. And I don’t even like babies.
Just Some Fuckhead
It would be irresponsible NOT to speculate.
Kevin K.
It’s not just (ugh) “troopergate,” which I don’t think will hold much water since the trooper in question seemed to be an asshole, it’s stuff like this (scroll down to “OUCH”).
Jon H
“Let me spell it out for you. These folks are from a small, religious right town. Insinuating a 16-year old girl was screwing around and gave birth out of wedlock isn’t the kind of thing nice people do to a teenager.”
That’s exactly the kind of thing that drives girls to have an abortion, which Palin wants to ban.
If she wants to ban abortion, she shouldn’t be supporting the shaming attitudes that drive girls to have abortions.
Understand?
Mary
THEN DEAL WITH THE FUCKING ISSUE DIRECTLY.
Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ!
There is a hell of a lot Obama, the Democrats and the media can do to intelligently and fairly combat whatever clout Plain brings to the ticket. Playing bullshit and, yes, misogynistic games with the woman and her goddamn 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER is not right nor is it effective.
But hey, I’m just a highly emotional chick. Maybe I’ll quote some guy to you instead.
Al doesn’t explicitly mention this BULLSHIT story, but I somehow suspect that it would be on his list.
jbarntt
JL Says:
John must be getting a lot of traffic even though there are only a few commenters. Normally they don’t send out the wingnuts like jbarntt unless they are worried
I don’t know about John’s traffic and I am not worried. It does interest me that liberals treat Gov. Palin like a whore, that McCain is viewed as a fascist, and that liberals in America these days are hard to distinguish from Soviets.
Conservatively Liberal
Quit using your forehead to type, it’s much easier using your fingers. Yes, you will have to put the Cheetos down but you can pick them up afterward. I know I am only stating the obvious, but your posting here shows that is your blind spot.
The obvious. Just making sure you don’t miss it!
Mrs. Peel
And I’m sick to death of you holier-than-thou handwringers sabotaging up every election by trying to inflict you weakness on the rest of us and giving the opposition the perfect ammunition. If we follow any of you advice, you can lie on your fainting couch and clutch your pearls as you listen to President McCain get sworn in.
You candy-ass losers and you constant low-pitched whines are un-fucking-believable. Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
Jon H
“More to the point, perhaps, even if it were true that Gov. Palin’s child was, in actuality, her daughter’s . . . is this really a political liability?”
Shamefully hiding your pregnant child doesn’t look particularly good. Especially if you then go on to accept pats on the back for not aborting ‘your’ down’s syndrome baby.
It would have looked tons better had she adopted the baby publicly.
JL
Speculate on why they are saying she against the bridge to nowhere. Talk about the endangered species act. If the child is her daughters, so what. She might have watched Bree on Desperate Housewives
Jon H
“. Playing bullshit and, yes, misogynistic games with the woman and her goddamn 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER is not right nor is it effective.”
Sorry Mary, women can be hypocrites too, and don’t get to play the gender card when they get called on it.
Mary
And if you want to help girls and women control their own bodies and make their own decisions about sex, birth control, pregnancy, abortions, adoptions and raising kids,you’ll stop this arrogant, paternalistic fingerpointing that involves not only a woman you have never met, but her 16 year old daughter.
If Palin wasn’t on this ticket, you probably wouldn’t even know that she and her family existed and you wouldn’t be doing your best to drive this story. Or are you saying that if you somehow knew about this story earlier, or if you knew some other woman and her daughter in your town that you suspect may be trying the same subterfuge, you would feel morally compelled to out them — why? To help those women, or women in general, or just to feel like a sanctimonious prick?
Hey, maybe we can extend the gold old Scarlet A to a new and relevant Scarlet B for baby, right?
Martin
I think you underestimate how common this is. To give you an idea, it’s happened twice in my family alone.
There’s nothing to cover up. The daughter can give the baby up for adoption at birth – that’s standard practice. The hospital can’t report on it because of HIPAA laws. Even if you interview the hospital staff, you won’t get an answer. Mono is the usual excuse for pulling the kid out of school. Happens all the time.
My wife’s comment was that by the 5th pregnancy you don’t get on a plane when you are about to go into labor – the odds the kid would be carried off the plane are just too high. Put simply, the story that Sarah offers on the flight to Alaska and the birth is as absurd as the rumor that it’s not hers.
Yeah, the story isn’t worth the cost of getting it wrong, but something doesn’t read right on this one. If someone has a like to anything that can refute it, it’d be worth spreading around.
b-psycho
Eh, I could less if she did lie about the most recent kid myself. Being a liar is a key part of being a politician, and it’s not the type of lie that’s a surprise in her case anyway.
In fairness (since for philosophical reasons I don’t particularly give a fuck about the election), I actually see one way to work this. If I were a strategist for McCain, I’d suggest that he spin Palin as a walking repudiation of Dick “4th branch of government” Cheney’s interpretation of the vice presidency.
Jon H
“And if you want to help girls and women control their own bodies and make their own decisions about sex, birth control, pregnancy, abortions, adoptions and raising kids,you’ll stop this arrogant, paternalistic fingerpointing that involves not only a woman you have never met, but her 16 year old daughter.”
Hey Mary, fuck you.
The woman’s a Republican, and controlling and limiting teenagers’ reproductive decisions is a core of what Republicans do.
This is a woman who might well be dictating healthcare policy in six months.
Mary
Mrs. Peel and Jon, you are not only moral midgets, you have the political instincts of blind lemmings with OCD.
I beleive in Obama dealing strongly and effectively with his political opponents. Trying to shame someone else’s 16 year old girl is NOT the way he, or anyone with a speck of maturity, compassion or common sense would do it.
But hey, the day you get on the campaign payroll and have Plouffe and Axelrod kissing your asses for your combined political genius, I’m sure you’ll let us know.
b-psycho
That was supposed to be “could CARE less”, dammit!
Jon H
“But hey, the day you get on the campaign payroll and have Plouffe and Axelrod kissing your asses for your combined political genius, I’m sure you’ll let us know.”
Fuck off, bitter PUMA bitch.
jbarntt
demimondian Says:
I’m calling you a hypocritical slave with neither morals nor values. You’re not worth arguing with.
So why do you argue, you contradict yourself ?
But let’s leave that aside, even the best of us can behave irrationally sometimes.
I do need to tell you that I am an American, and am not a slave. As to my morals or values, it is interesting how much you know about them. Are you someone I know ? If not how do you know these things about me ?
SGEW
Hey Jon H: watch your fucking language, shithead.
Mary
Jon? Capital letters for you. I’ve left the kerning unadjusted for truth.
SIXTEEN.YEAR.OLD.DAUGHTER.
SIXTEEN.YEAR.OLD.DAUGHTER.
But hey, she’s the daughter of a Republican and destined to become a Republican herself, right? Nits become lice, eh?
Fuck you for being so stupid and sexist that you can’t see the difference between trafficking in stupid and speculative gossip and effectively countering anti-woman policies.
I live in a country where goddamn heroes like Dr. Morgentaler paved the way for legal abortion. I have a uterus: you don’t. I have friends who have faced unwanted pregnancies and who have made the best choices for yourselves: you may still be going through picture books that explain the differences between boys and girls in easy to understand language. (Keep plugging away, champ! You’ll get there one day.)
You have fuckall to tell me about women’s rights to their own bodies. Fuck-diddly-all.But you are an awesome example of a narrow-minded,testosterone-poisoned jerk who think it’s OK to berate and shame a teenage girl on pretty fucking thin evidence.
Bey
Palin’s behavior at the birth of her son was, at the very least, bizzare. All births to mothers over 35 are by definition high risk. They knew the baby had Down’s AND her water broke a month before her due date.
Did she high-tail it to the nearest hospital to make sure her child got the emergency care he clearly needed?
No she did not. She gave a speech, then took an 8 hour flight, followed by a lengthy car ride home to Alaska.
Sorry. That doesn’t pass the sniff test with me. Something is deeply strange here.
Bey
Palin’s behavior at the birth of her son was, at the very least, bizzare. All births to mothers over 35 are by definition high risk. They knew the baby had Down’s AND her water broke a month before her due date.
Did she high-tail it to the nearest hospital to make sure her child got the emergency care he clearly needed?
No she did not. She gave a speech, then took an 8 hour flight, followed by a lengthy car ride home to Alaska.
Sorry. That doesn’t pass the sniff test with me. Something is deeply strange here.
Mary
You really are new here, aren’t you?
OK, now I’m laughing. You’re pig-ignorant in a can.
Mrs. Peel
Tell you what to do honey. Stay in the house with the curtains drawn and maybe unbunch all your panties. I’m sure that will keep you busy until election day. The people who aren’t afraid to get their hands a little dirty will tell you when the heavy lifting is all done and it’s safe to come out again.
Just Some Fuckhead
Mary, JL, I’m not really interested in appearing noble. If so, I might have a different handle. But thanks for your concern.
The Moar You Know
And yet, when Republicans do all of the above – and they have in every single election since Lee Atwater unleashed Bush I on the world – it’s just politics and no one even blinks.
You know what? Fuck you. I’m tired of losing elections. This concern troll hand-wringing bullshit that somehow Dems must take the high road has frog-marched this nation right over the threshold of fascism. I am fucking sick and tired of the other side screeching about “fair play” while they’re simultaneously stabbing us in the back while stealing our wallets and futures.
Republicans do this shit to Dems every day. They’re doing it right now. Your bright idea is to do nothing? I have a better one. Go fuck yourself.
kyrol
Hey, Rich Rodriguez? How’s that new gig working out for you?
Jon H
“You have fuckall to tell me about women’s rights to their own bodies. Fuck-diddly-all.But you are an awesome example of a narrow-minded,testosterone-poisoned jerk who think it’s OK to berate and shame a teenage girl on pretty fucking thin evidence.”
Nowhere have I suggested that the daughter deserves any ‘berating’.
Piss off.
Hell, Palin looks worse if she WAS pregnant, flying from Texas to Alaska after her water broke, when she already knew her baby had downs syndrome. Maybe she was hoping it would die?
Mary
Mrs. Peel, I’m going to live quite a nice, open, productive life without taking advice from a comma-phobic twenty-something guy fapping to classic Avengers downloads. But thanks for playing, on behalf of sixteen year old girls everywhere who wouldn’t fuck you if you were the last cosplayer on earth.
SGEW
So, to sum up –
Two major problems with the “left-wing blogosphere” (ye gods, when, exactly, did Balloon Juice become a “left-wing” site?!) pursuing the old baby-switch story:
1) Ethics. One side says “all’s fair in love, war, and politics, motherfuckers!” and the other side says “you’re a Rovian monster if you want to pursue this.”
2) Political Efficacy. One side says “this will destroy – DESTROY – McCain’s electoral chances if true!” and the other side says “a chancy strategy, at best; at worst, a total balls-to-the-walls backfiring disaster.”
Right? Have at it.
L. Ron Obama
Hard-hitting reporting from Newsweek!
Bey
Hear, Hear Moar!
My granddaughter’s future is at stake here. Paltin’s story is very very strange. It’s worth investigation. No one is shaming the daughter….except her parents if it’s true.
If you’re too squeamish to deal, fine. Go lie down with a cool rag on your head.
Jon H
“Political Efficacy. ”
Well, I certainly wouldn’t suggest that the Obama campaign so much as wink at this stuff.
But hey, if the National Enquirer is looking for a story to follow after their Edwards scoop, they’re welcome to it.
jbarntt
Jon H Says:
If she wants to ban abortion, she shouldn’t be supporting the shaming attitudes that drive girls to have abortions.
Understand?
Not sure what your point is, as your English is a bit odd, guess that’s why you wondered whether you would be understood.
Making my best guess as to your meaning is difficult. Nothing drives girls to abortions other than having been knocked up. Your post seems to to suggest that Palin is responsible for these trollops finding themselves in the family way.
I do understand that in the liberal mindset that the girl is not responsible, neither is the man, it is Uncle Sam. If this is all we’re goin’ on about, why bother ? Go to the Welfare office and get the check.
Mrs. Peel
Or, as I like to say: GOPhuck yourself.
JL
The problem is the news media would jump all over the gossip about the teen pregnancy and paint Sarah as a saint. I certainly do not want her getting the sympathy vote. It is fair to ask her whether or not she received medical advice before boarding a plane after her water broke. That is a judgment issue.
nightjar
I have no idea what to make of this story. It seems so implausible to be surreal, as to why anyone in the 21st century would do such a thing. But I grew up around some of the wingiest religious wingnuts ever made, and they did some crazy shit to maintain an image of purity. It’s not about the daughter at all, if it’s true. It would be about Sarah Palin and her fitness to be in line next to the POTUS who may croak at any time. And your right Mary, no one would be bringing this up if she weren’t on the ticket. Which is exactly why it needs to be brought up. Little to nothing is going to be private at this high level and high stakes. My own impression of this woman, at this point in the vetting process is that she’s a loose cannon who does what the fuck she wants, and considers consequences later. Do we want another one of those types so close to the Oval Office. I don’t. In that way, I may see her appeal to the Maverick Mccain.
Jon H
“Nothing drives girls to abortions other than having been knocked up”
Well, you are a stupid troll, aren’t you?
What biology book told you that girls get pregnant, then inevitably have abortions?
Bey
She was high-risk, the baby had Down’s, and she was leaking amniotic fluid.
No reputable doctor would have let her board a plane.
L. Ron Obama
Cole stated in no uncertain terms that spreading the pregnancy rumor shit was unacceptable on this blog. I’m wondering if that declaration has any teeth.
Mary
The Moar You Know and Just Some Fuckhead, I’ll reply to you two and ignore the fuckwits, because you’re regulars here whose opinions actually mean something to me.
I don’t believe in doing nothing. I do believe in fighting hard and effectively in ways that won’t backfire. I’m with Al Giordano in thinking that it’s just not morally wrong but stupid to do anything that could cause rebound sympathy for Palin. There is so fucking much she can rightfully be attacked on (see Al’s quote above). Helping to spread a story, true or false, about covering up her daughter’s pregnancy is not going to help Obama one fucking bit.
Please: lay out the likely good results for Obama if the story is shown to be true.
Paleo-cons everywhere have the scales fall from their eyes as they suddenly realize that not everyone that talks the talk, walks the walk? They suddenly decide to support abortion rights? Err, not fucking likely.
Palin become a national punchline on the Daily Show and Bill Maher’s show? And that makes up for swing voters, especially women, who are disgusted with the Obama campaign for appearing to play gotcha games with a teenage girl? I don’t think o.
It isn’t as if this is the last few minutes of a tight game and the only thing Obama can possibly do to win is fight dirty. Please, stop panicking and give me some decent arguments about how publicizing this story results in a net gain for Obama. I’ll leave aside the moral argument for now. Just try to demonstrate how this would be effective.
Martin
Yeah, that’s my problem too. My wife had the same situation. Water broke and she was in the hospital 15 minutes later and stayed there for 8 days. The doctor was actually concerned that we lived 15 miles from the hospital and in rush hour would take an hour or more and debated if we shouldn’t admit her early.
Getting on a plane? You gotta be kidding me. Her doctor would be furious if she had even entertained such a thought. Among other things, my wife couldn’t sit up once her water broke – it only forces the labor along which is the last thing you want to do. She calls bullshit on the whole story.
Jon H
Probably the best way for this to go would, indeed be to hit Palin’s poor judgement for making the flight after her water broke a month early.
Mary
Oh, and one more thing. Yesterday I felt completely gutted as Palin was confirmed and just had to walk away from blogs for a day. So I can look at the panic and anger and over-reaction several of you are showing here and empathize. But you have to buck up and deal at some point, and the more I read about Palin today, the much more beatable she appears to be. The Alaska press and political body are aghast, Troopergate is a much smellier mess than it seemed at first, and there’s a shitload of conservatives, including David Frum in the National Post, who think McCain has lost it.
There is no need to stoop to dirty tricks. None.
(Oh, are any of you commenting on this women, by the way? The pallid guy in the leather catsuit can sit down — I’m talking about the rest of you. I am always thrilled to see men supporting women’s rights to choose, but I’m a little disheartened when that support takes the form of acting like ninth-grade gossips and spreading stories — true or false — that are devastating to a teenage girl. If women’s lives and feelings matter, they matter whether they’re young or old, Republican or Democrat. There are ways to help all women without treating one specific girl like shit.)
Just Some Fuckhead
Mary, anonymous folks on the internet are raising interesting circumstances surrounding the birth of Palin’s fifth child. It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that. There doesn’t have to be any fire behind the smoke. There doesn’t have to be a gain for Obama for people to discuss the presumptive VP nominee.
Conversely, there isn’t automatically a downside to Obama, as you posit. There won’t be a national backlash to Obama based on the snide tone three anonymous BJ commenters took towards women.
We’re really not that important and this isn’t really that big of a deal. It is, however, very interesting.
Jon H
“and spreading stories—true or false—that are devastating to a teenage girl.”
Palin should have rejected the offered VP choice if she was sitting on this.
maxbaer (not the original)
Jesus, who can’t see that it’s disgusting to attack someone’s kids for political points? I mean other than Limbaugh and McCain, not company I would want to be in.
Mary
JSF, I hope this discussion stays that irrelevant. I got the impression from some comments that some people thought every effort should be made to publicize the story, and that could lead to a backlash (again, speaking strictly strategically and leaving out my empathy and horror about the moral choices made).
(So where’s John? Does he actually have a life and is out somewhere while I’m at home typing and drinking tea? Bastard.)
Zuzu's Petals
Look, aside from the obvious fact that an adoptive mother does not breastfeed (as Palin was)…
I agree that seems like an unworthy line of attack, and I know that John Cole has made it clear that he doesn’t want it pursued here.
Jon H
“Jesus, who can’t see that it’s disgusting to attack someone’s kids for political points?”
I see it as sympathy for the daughter. Being made to disappear for months? Not a lot of support for the daughter, there. Just shamed by her parents.
Just Some Fuckhead
Let me just second the love for The Moar You Know and offer a small defense for the “fuckwits”. Just because you don’t agree with them on this particular topic doesn’t mean they are fuckwits. I happen to really enjoy Jon H and Mrs. Peel.
JL
As per my post, I do hope that a reporter will ask her is she received medical advice before boarding the airplane. This goes directly towards her judgment and is a valid question. If her interview yesterday is any example she will simply smile and say of course. A smart follow up might be what doctor?
Mrs. Peel
If women’s lives and feelings matter, they matter whether they’re young or old, Republican or Democrat.
And just what the fuck is that supposed to mean? We’re supposed to cut women repubs some slack because we all have the same plumbing? Dream on, sister.
Montysano
Welcome to the world according to Atwater/Rove. They’d do it to our guy in a second.
Wait…. what’s that you say? We should be above all this? Travel the high road. Yeah, well fuck that. Tough shit for Palin. Tough shit for her daughter. If it’s not true, it’ll go away in a few days.
Obama and Biden won’t touch this, and absolutely shouldn’t. For me personally, I’m happy to pile on. It’s been done to us a thousand times. Fuck ’em.
NR
You guys, the thing to do here is very simple and obvious:
Ignore Palin. She’s a distraction. Keep the focus on McCain.
Obama gets it. It’s time we did, too.
Just Some Fuckhead
And their opinion for that course of action is just as valid as yours against it.
nightjar
I think it’s false but others who are smarter than I, whose opinion I respect, have some fairly serious questions about this. If false, she (the daughter) can laugh at how stupid people can be. If true, then the damage was done by her parents, not bloggers.
Bey
Ok, I’ll bite. I’m a 51 year old grandma feminist. And a fuckwit apparently.
We’re asking legitimate questions about Paltin.
Scenario 1: She was pregnant and showed an incredibly lack of good judgement about her health and the health of her son. Spectacularly bad judgement. She’s lucky the kid didn’t die in transit. I don’t want her leading my country, thanks.
Scenario 2: It was her daughter’s pregnancy and she was so ashamed of losing her fundie cred that she concocted an elaborate cover up. Spectacularly bad judgement again.
I don’t want her leading my country, thanks
Or Scenario 3: there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation of the very strange circumstances here. I’d like to hear that *before* she’s VP, thanks very much.
Conservatively Liberal
I say let the sleuths work the baby ‘angle’ and lets get on with asking why McCain would pick someone who is NOT ready to assume the presidency on day one if something should happen to McCain. About how McCain’s campaign says that she will learn foreign policy “at the feet of the master”. That phrase alone ought to piss off a lot of women, not to mention those who believe that a VP choice reflects on the judgment of the candidate. If McCain’s campaign is willing to admit that their choice is NOT ready on day one (training, ya kno!) then we should be more than happy to use that statement against him.
Either way, speculation on the baby issue gets us nowhere and IMO it is a waste of time that could be better spent addressing the numerous weak points that this choice opens up for the Democrats. I am sure that there are many people looking into it, and if anything of substance show up I am sure that we will hear about it.
Privacy today is a rare commodity. ;)
Punchy
Me, +6.43 at the moment, just wants to opine that Heinken sux, La-Tech’s extra point miss at the end of the half just paid my mad bones, and if I see one more GOS diary about “stop being sexist about Palin”, i will shat on my lappy.
Latah. Off to raise me to at least + 14
JL
Her pro life credentials would suffer in my opinion. I certainly do not want her second in command.
Jon H
” I know that John Cole has made it clear that he doesn’t want it pursued here.”
When was that?
w vincentz
I checked Joe 1347’s link. Seems that this is material for the Enquirer. There’s enough other provable information on Palin and her theocon agenda to doom her candidacy.
Fern
Exactly.
Plus she is likely to say or do something really, really stupid in the next little while.
Not to mention there is nothing to be gained an potentially a lot to lose by going after someone’s under-aged child.
The Moar You Know
Mary: I agree that the Obama campaign shouldn’t touch this because, as you note, it would look like they’re picking on a teenage girl in a difficult time.
Fortunately, I, and my fellow bloggers, are under no such restrictions.
We’ve been fighting a party that, for the last twenty years, has had no compunctions about indulging in these sorts of attacks. They have made accusations far more heinous on far flimsier evidence than what we have here, and most of the time they have gone nowhere. And absolutely no harm has come to them by doing so.
But a few times they have stuck an artery. Look at what happened to Bill Clinton; he was beloved by a solid majority of the electorate, the Republicans dug into something that was absolutely none of their business and – BAM – they not only destroyed his political career, but destroyed that of his vice-president as well. No one was too pissed (save Hillary) about him getting a hummer in the Oval Office and that really wasn’t the issue – what they were pissed about was that they showed him up as being a liar.
That’s why this is a big deal. No one cares about whether Sarah Palin’s daughter had a kid, or how the family decided to handle that. But that’s not the issue. What the “mushy middle” of the electorate will care about is if the case can be made that she’s a liar. And it’s looking as though, for many other reasons, that case can be made.
I personally think that this is a dry hole; Down’s kids are rarely born to teen mothers. But even if it is I still believe that it is worth looking into, if for no other reason that the Republican party needs to be served notice that Dems are not going to lie down and take their bullying crap anymore.
There is only one way to stop a bully. It is not by taking the high road.
Fern
A thread or two back.
douglasfactors
The McCain-Palin campaign would like to thank Jon H and Mrs. Peel for their tireless efforts to discredit the liberal blogosphere.
Just Some Fuckhead
Last night, he ripped into someone who brought it up in the comments, said it was like the attacks on Obama’s patriotism or rumors that Obama is a stealth muslim and he wouldn’t tolerate it.
I replied that it was more like Obama being accused of fathering a kid outta wedlock or having sex with some dude.
For me, it was John being instinctively/reflexively wrong the first time around on any new thing. He probably sees it differently. :)
At any rate, now you all know where John stood on the issue as of last night so continue to discuss it at your own peril. Cue scary music.
Jon H
If Palin was the Democratic VP candidate, the GOP would be saying that Obama knocked up Palin’s daughter.
By the way, does anyone know how Alaska ranks in terms of teenage pregnancies?
I’d expect it to be fairly high, what with the long winter nights and high incentive to stay warm inside.
Mary
Moar, a sixteen year old girl is still a sixteen year old girl, no matter who is looking to the story.
And here’s what John said.
Say what you like at your own blogs, but he doesn’t want it here. And I’m shutting up about it.
Montysano
We wuz credited? Who knew?
Shygetz
Will John allow us to discuss the STUNNINGLY dangerous decision to fly from Texas to Alaska while in premature labor, and then drive from well-outfitted Juneau to Pudunk, Alaska to give birth to this high-risk child? I mean, after all, this is her official story, and it exhibits TERRIBLE judgment, and in my eyes is even more damning than hiding a daughter’s pregnancy. Is that off-limits here?
Conservatively Liberal
I have scary music going all of the time, don’t you? It started when Cheney came to power and I am hoping it ends when Cheney exits.
All of the crescendos are wearing my ears out.
Jon H
Okay, per the CDC, Alaska has a teen pregnancy rate akin to that of California. AK: 37.3 per 1000, CA: 38.8. For comparison, New Hampshire’s rate is 17.9 per thousand, and MS is 60.5 per thousand.
For whatever that’s worth.
Joshua Norton
Maybe this one of McCain’s cost-cutting policies in action. After all, he’s got no problem with women making less than men. I assume she’ll be happy getting 20% less than they are paying Cheney.
LiberalTarian
The baby angle is a loser. LOSER.
So, the Republicans want to gut the constitution … you’re saying that makes Democrats wanting to gut the constitution OK? Ted Stevens got his house rebuilt by Veco. So, how come we don’t just say Democrats can get their houses rebuilt by AT&T? Hey, if they do it, it’s good for us, right??? I’m not in that camp. If you are, well, we’ve already lost, regardless of who gets elected.
Like I said before, there are plenty of things having to do with governance to go after Palin about. The BabyGate angle makes us look like low-life FUCKTARDS and Limbaughtomized Dittoheads.
But hey, it’s (still) a free country. You wanna look like a fucktard and do McCain’s dirty work for him, well, who’s going to stop you? You wanna play into the GOP “everybody does it” canard? Who, exactly, are you going to win over with your fucktardian Rovian playbook? Nobody, and you’ll turn away perfectly good voters in the meantime.
Go right ahead, but you speak for YOU, and no one else, especially not this liberal. I happen to believe there is a lot to say for the high road and keeping out of the gutter. I am happy to win on the good governance platform. I don’t need to smear kids and their mothers.
Jon H
Okee doke, if John said no, I’m done.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
So after the Edwards fiasco and using a good chunk of the convention to prove that Barack Obama is indeed an American citizen and Patriot(tm), now there’s vapors, pearl clutching, and – dare I say – concern over questions about Palin’s last child?
Christ on a crutch, yes, by all means the Obama campaign and its surrogates shouldn’t be touching this with a ten foot pole. The rest of us, however, can do what we damn well please. Hell, I don’t remember anyone hyperventaliting this much when p.luk, in his pre-batshit insane days, was investigating Bush’s flight records. Fuhgeddaboutit, if there’s no story, there’ll be no story. No need to get our panties in a wad.
Let the Enquirer, Larry Flynt, and the Internet detectives do their work, and Obama will hold up on his end. Nothing to worry about here.
L. Ron Obama
You’re a semi-anonymous commenter piggybacking on someone else’s popular blog to peddle a message the proprietor says is beneath its standards. I just think it’s disrespectful. But it’s not my blog either, so I won’t say anything more about it.
douglasfactors
You’re supposed to punch out the bully fair and square, in the open, so everyone can see he had it coming.
You could retaliate by kicking his dog or spreading rumors about his mom, but who’s the bully then?
Mrs. Peel
Yeah. So how’s that worked out for you so far?
LiberalTarian
Apparently better for me than for you, eh Mrs. Peel?
But please, don’t let me stop you. There’s shit to be wallowed in, and I’m sure you’ll find it to your liking.
jbarntt
dbrown Says:
Regan was a conservative and spent money like a drunken sailor – remember he ran up record (for the time) debts
I do remember that. Reagan bankrupted the USSR by challenging their economic plan vs. ours. We won. I do appreciate that liberals at the time thought we shouldn’t look for victory, but rather view the USSR as a model for improvement at home.
Mrs. Peel
You can bet the farm that you won’t little boy. When wingnuts sneer about spineless liberal cowards, you’re exactly who they have in mind. More’s the pity for me, since I have to be associated with the likes of you.
douglasfactors
You should know.
Corner Stone
Congrats John Cole.
I hope you enjoy the whirlwind you’re reaping here. The little “politic” vote Obama made on FISA has beget the slippery slope we’re all seeing here.
Disgusting POS’s who are talking about a)Palin’s child really being her daughter’s or b)Palin displaying *bad* judgment by flying while pregnant.
All in the name of “winning” elections. Yeah, lots of winning ground here you fucktards. Where exactly do you think this line of reasoning will go? Think it suppress the R nutter base? Think it will fire up the D “fauxgressive” side? How exactly in the name of fuck holy does this line help defeat John McCain?
Let’s calculate the votes you gain if by some stretch a) above is true. Who stays home, who shows up at the polls on this?
What about the b) line? Same question.
When winning elections means becoming Rethug-like, then what’s next for you? You’ll spin 180 degrees and “demand” progressive policies from President Obama?
A bunch of sick fucks spouting off.
Just Some Fuckhead
Christ Jesus, if you pearl-clutching nancies don’t like it, get a fucking pie filter. Appealing to authority for censorship to stop something you don’t like is just pathetic. YOU are the ones that make ME ashamed to be a liberal.
And I say that as someone who hasn’t speculated one miserable word about Sarah Palin’s family.
You wanna talk about the high road? Take the high road and ignore what you don’t like. No one is interested in how fucking noble you are, for instance, Liberaltarian. Yer just another fucktard trying to force yer own morality down our collective throats in this particular case. Fuck you.
jbarntt
Just Some Fuckhead Says:
Crazy JB does make a valid point about Huckabee.
Thanks JSFS. I don’t get many compliments here.
Xenos
Remember who we are talking about here – a talibangelical with contempt for empiricism, evolution, environmental science, climate science, the whole ball of wax. How can we expect her to listen to her doctors when she has no appreciation for the rigid science and professionalism these doctors rely on for their authority?
If she thinks she can pray her way out of what the doctors tell her, she will do it.
This is a much simpler and clear explanation for what she did, and has the added value of being exactly what this foolish twit says she did. It is much more damning than a crypto-teen pregnancy, as it shows her to have the exact set of disastrous personality traits that have made W. such a catastrophe.
And leave the sixteen-year old out of it. Even if she did get pregnant, we should not act like total cretins such as Limbaugh and McCain.
Notorious P.A.T.
I couldn’t agree more. Anyone who doubts what a humongous error in judgment that was, ask your doctor if flying across the country whil 9 months pregnant is a good idea for anyone, let alone someone carrying a high-risk pregnancy.
Mrs. Peel
Oh my. The ditto-head freepers are back from their break. Don’t you ever get tired of your St. Ronald of Raygun lies? The Pope had more to do with the fall of the USSR than that bombastic blowhard.
Just Some Fuckhead
And Corner Stone wallows in to score some more outrage points. What a surprise.
The Moar You Know
NICE TRY
Corner Stone
dbrown says:
I mean really. All you republican lovers can say I’m playing the misogynist card and all that but c’mon. If the good denizens of this hole in the wall blog can honestly say this comment is spot on and not related to a denigration of women then I will never mention the word misogyny here again.
Just Some Fuckhead
Understandably.
Notorious P.A.T.
I’d expect it to be high, based upon Alaska being a red state.
Russ
Mrs. Peel,
The scary thing is that McCain thinks Reagan’s bombastic antics were effective. He could be worse than Bush.
Montysano
Let’s remember: up to the part about the daughter, this is her official story, as reported in the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, and they seemed to find the story a bit….. odd. Palin was leaking amniotic fluid and in premature labor, but didn’t notify airline officials when boarding for an 8 hour flight?
If it’s bullshit, fine. But I find all the hand wringing around here to be a bit puzzling.
nightjar
We got all flavors here at Hot Air Emporium.
Lynn Sutherland
The thing that bothers me so about this story, and it is so strangely concocted that something is amiss, is how could she do this to her daughter? She would have to know it would come out–how could she expose her daughter to this? There is nothing wrong with having a baby as an unmarried teenager–it happens all the time–but there has to be a better way to handle this than covering it up. And then to risk it being revealed nationally. There is something terribly wrong with someone who could do this to her child and it would be a terrible reflection on Palin’s character. And as sordid as this story is, I think it is important enough to find out the truth and then dismiss it as a horrible rumor or dismiss Palin for being so callus to participate in something like this. She could just address it openly and put the rumor to rest.
Notorious P.A.T.
Yes, the USSR was doing just fine until Reagan came along. Why, if it weren’t for him, the Soviet Union would still exist.
The aggressive containment put in place under Truman had nothing to do with it. Nor did the plummetting price of oil or the ascension of Gorbachov.
vaux-rien
Well dbrown does appear to have some difficulty expressing him/herself. “Eye-candy” does bug the shit out of me but not any more than “bushwhack” or “McInsane”, that punny shit drives me nuts. “Coward” is beyond my knowledge of the woman and “attacks innocence people” has its own obvious problems, but as to whether I consider someone who promotes the teaching of creationism qualified to be VP? yeah, spot on.
b-psycho
The only way you could find that significant would be if you thought there was chance in hell of the USSR’s plan working. All that buildup was for personal gain, not any serious defense goal. Weapons manufacturers said “fill our pockets faster, please”, and the squeaky wheel got greased.
Y’know, for people supposedly so confident in the rightness of the US, you guys sure do seem to doubt its staying power something fierce. From panic over having to try to bankrupt a regime based off the dumbest theory of economics ever conceived, to now portraying random religious nuts as a serious threat to western civilization itself — and ironically pushing as a solution undermining what makes said civilization worth defending in the first fucking place. Gee, how thoughtful…
Why don’t the wingnuts just admit that they’re projecting their internal questions about their manhood onto the nation as a whole, and that dreams of blowing shit up at random get them hard?
jbarntt
Jon H Says:
Palin wants to stop girls from being able to have abortions, but she sure has hell isn’t going to adopt their unwanted babies.
So if Palin is opposed to abortion, she has to adopt every baby that would have otherwise been aborted by liberals ?
You got the stupid. Palin is supposed to be responsible for for every girl that gets pregnant ? Sorry that is not her responsibility, it is the responsibility of the mother and father.
I appreciate that it is a novel idea to liberals that people are responsible for their own actions.
gil mann
So, total creep then. I’m just smarmy enough to apologize to Mary on your behalf but she handled you fine on her own.
The lack of political instinct here is astounding. I mean, assume it’s all true–she pulled a big switcheroo like in the movies and took the hit for her kid–who’s your audience for that line of attack, anyway? Shit, I believe this story and it doesn’t hurt her in my estimation. Have fun proving that this fundie kook actually walks the walk.
Just let her do her thing, man. You look like a scumbag going after someone so quirky and disarming, and in this case, you actually are one. Look, she’ll be fun to have on the TV for a few weeks but her beliefs are fucked up. A creationist will scare away more people than she’ll attract. Don’t forget, people love Huckabee, as long as he’s not doing anything important.
And maybe stop being such volcanic assholes when someone on the home team tries to tell you something. Maybe they’re wrong and maybe they’re not.
First one to call concern troll wins a year’s supply of Gee That’s Clever I Wish I Could Come Up With Something Clever Like That. A string of Zs would be unoriginal as well, albeit completely fitting.
srv
When is John going to be on PajamasTV?
The Moar You Know
It’s absolutely spot on; misogyny is not an issue when the attack happens to be true.
I’ll hold you to your promise, not that it will shut you up for one second.
We look forward to your posting in November how you were “forced” to vote for John McCain by the “misogynists” in the Democratic party.
Notorious P.A.T.
Exactly. This is obviously *not* an attack against the daughter. No one is saying “Oh that poor Sarah Palin was forced to take drastic measures when here ingrate child got pregnant to spite her!” What we are saying is, if true, this story potentially reflects very poorly on Sarah Palin’s character and judgment.
Joe1347
Certainly fair questions to ask Palin. As for McCain, How about simply asking him why he didn’t pick someone like Tom Ridge – who few if any (Democrats and Republicans) would argue is infinitely more qualified to be VP?
Regarding the linked story on Palin not being the biological mother of the infant – absolutely no one would argue that the McCain campaign is directly responsible for much worse smears on Obama’s character and EVERYTHING is now fair game at this point in the election. Maybe it’s time the Democrats took a lesson from LBJ who clearly knew how to win.
Brick Oven Bill
I don’t buy it. Palin definitely looks pregnant here:
http://alaskareport.com/images31/palin_pregnant.jpg
I have a hard time believing she put on a fat suit for one event. It was a small child. The odds of a 15-19 yr old having a Downs Syndrome child are 1:1250.
Its not like her ‘water broke’ either. I’ve had the chance to witness a couple of those. This may be all on the up and up.
Notorious P.A.T.
And now for something completely different:
Another Dubious Firing
“Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin fired the city’s police chief and the library director without warning Thursday, accusing them of not fully supporting her efforts to govern. . . Both had publicly supported Palin’s opponent, long-time mayor John Stein, during the campaign last fall. When she was elected, Palin questioned their loyalty and even initially asked for their resignations. “
douglasfactors
cosign
Corner Stone
Hey Moar –
I said denizens plural. I understand you’re a self inflated arbiter of all that is BJ – even though it isn’t your blog – but your one sick fuck of a vote counts as just one, not as a plurality.
douglasfactors
Be that as it may, how does the story help us win?
Think it through.
gamechanger
Right back at ya. Concern Troll.
Corner Stone
vaux-rien –
Absolutely. Hit her on her creationism, her anti-choice, other nutter positions she’s espoused. I agree a 100%.
Why waste time wallowing in the slop of a BS story about her youngest child?
Makes no sense and it just plays into the “everybody’s dirty” meme Rove et al wants to propagate.
L. Ron Obama
Maybe all the 15-year-old girls in your family get pregnant and you think nothing of it, but back in the real world we call that kind of insinuation a character attack.
Of course, according to earlier commenters, the daughter might not have been pregnant–she just might be fat. There is a winning, winning tack if I ever heard one. Please, keep up the stellar work.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why waste time queering every thread with accusations of misogyny? Who knows why we do the stupid things we do. At least they are interesting. You’re just tiresome.
Corner Stone
The Moar says:
I’ve never voted for an R in my life, at any level. Don’t intend to now.
If you can honestly say there isn’t an ugly undercurrent going on in the D party – oh well then.
Martin
Agreed. If someone can find even a half-assed refutation to this story, I’ll be happy to push it around aggressively, but I’ve yet to find anything.
Agreed. But I’ve heard bullshit stories before and this whole matter sounds like one to me. Like I’ve said, I’ve had this in my own family more than once. I had to redraw my family tree twice because of shit like this. I’ll have to be a skeptic on the story for now.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
If it is true, then why did she go through the switcheroo? Its not the lapse of judgement, its the coverup.
Notorious P.A.T.
I see. You seem to think that there’s something inherently morally wrong with a teenager bringing a child into this world. I don’t, and I bet most people here feel the same. It certainly isn’t a “character attack”.
Corner Stone
JSF says:
Well, awww shucks FuckedInTheHead. I’m powerful sorry for tiring your precious self on the totally tiresome topic. It makes me queasy to think you could be the slightest bit disquieted on a topic you’re mentally unprepared to adress honestly.
I apologize to you kind sir.
jake
Putrid Old Wanker.
Since this is an open thread, I just wanted to say I’ll be sacrificing a goat on behalf of the people in the path of this shit.
Be careful.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Eh, that’s venturing into “Have you stopped beating your wife” territory. I’d say there’s no reason not to discuss the question, but the evidence is still too circumstantial and shaky to not be skeptical of the answer.
Just Some Fuckhead
No need to apologize. Just try to be a better person, others will eventually notice and appreciate you for it.
Shabbazz
Has anyone investigated the 16-year-old’s counter-tops yet?!? They could be the key to this entire controversy!
Someone tell me that you all are doing your best Red State perpetual outrage snark? If so, you’re doing a helluva job! Keep up the good work!
The Moar You Know
DUBIOUS DISCLAIMER
Montysano
If McCain had to throw Palin overboard and go find another VP, you don’t think this would help us? Get real. If it’s not true, it will be gone in a couple of days. If it were true, I’m happy to pile on and help bring her down. Sorry if that offends the more delicate souls here.
Here’s how I see it: thanks to George W., we’re on the brink of fascism. I’m 54, and if McCain wins, I doubt that I’ll see another Dem/progressive candidate in my lifetime. That’s how serious I think this election is.
gil mann
See what I’m saying? This guy’s the token conservative at ObWi (trollish at times, but too earnest to deserve that designation, IIRC), and he’s running with it on a pro-Obama blog. If the ratfucking were any more obvious you’d be watching a cartoon porno.
Y’know who this story would resonate with? Republicans, if it were about a Democrat.
Trying to emulate Karl Rove and ending up as Phil Kline. Boy, I wish all you tactically brilliant Sun-Tzus would quit hogging all the win.
douglasfactors
And what makes you so sure it wouldn’t backfire? If it’s true, who looks worse, the woman who protected her daughter or the assholes who invaded her privacy?
michelle
This nonsense is why I’ve never bought into the GOS and have stopped reading Greenwald.
Steve Benen is a much better read, as is John Cole.
4jkb4ia
Fortunately in the context of college football you cannot really talk about a long season
Jon H
How about that new campaign imagery from the McCain/Palin camp, huh?
This Fall On NBC, George Peppard and Fran Drescher star in the hilarious new sitcom, “Have You Seen My Nuclear Briefcase?”
michelle
Has anyone linked to the booing Palin got when she mentioned Hillary again today?
4jkb4ia
I am touched that the commenter sees a resemblance to Fran Drescher even if I don’t agree.
I was going to say that this so-called “Squash Fans on an Onion Bed” is a complete failure so far. The zucchini came apart when I was trying to stick the olives in and tastes watery. The eggplant is not done yet. The whole operation needs a careful brushing with oil and more time in the oven.
gil mann
That’s what I’m talkin’ about. Anything that doesn’t involve McCain pandering so cynically just to peel off a couple of TalkLeft commenters who don’t see the ham-handed tranparence of it is a waste of time.
Well, no, the fundamentalism’s pretty ripe too, but there’ll be time for that. They can only use Hillary for political gain for so long. I wasn’t a backer, but boy does it piss me off to see the Right acting like they give a shit about the one person who beat them.
michelle
Not getting all GOS histerical, but the hurricane is going to be very bad. Cat 5.
I know Gulf Coaster are prone to histeria, but this is really really bad.
So what if a mom covered up for her daughter.
Missing the boat.
Conservatively Liberal
Sooooo… anyone up for a good Donnybrook? ;)
Palin got booed mentioning Hillary? Well, with righties it could go either way right now. :)
vaux-rien
Well part of the point I’d hoped to make was that in the particular quote you selected the sexism was a small part of a bunch of idiocy. If you want to defend Palin maybe you shouldn’t be picking on the developmentally challenged kid (who didn’t bring up this conspiracy theory BTW).
That said I’ve read plenty of other stuff which I think is counter-productive at best so I kind of concede the larger point. Not about misogyny in particular, although I’ve seen plenty, but in general Palin’s looking more and more like a tar baby here.
michelle
Putting two and two together — McCain (or his handlers) thought the Palin pick would do what it did: raise money and prick a swarm on the one site they would link to.
When Palin went out to capture the supposed Hillary vote, the fundies came out in force.
McCain wins the fundie vote. Rove is no longer in an official capacity, he can only go on tv.
Obama has a better GOTV machine than Rove, even handicapping.
Win.
Ken
Nobody “won” the Cold War, shithead. It bankrupted the treasuries of both the U.S. and the Soviet Union, and the next ten generations of Americans will be saddled with Reagan’s debt forever.
This is so patently ridiculous as to be beneath notice.
michelle
I’m not going to scroll up to fight the cold war again, but I will say that anyone who still thinks it was all about Reagan wasn’t in any of the republics when the union went down.
Cain
Dudes,
Stop fighting amongst yourselves.. it sad when we eat our own. We got much bigger fish to fry and trying to argue this crap is a waste of time.
We should be going after McCain and his judgment not this bullshit. Do you seriously think talking about the baby story is going to harm Palin? I seriously doubt it as the American public is simply just doesn’t care. If they didn’t care about Clinton getting a hummer, I doubt they’d care as a whole about this. Maybe their holy than thou Republicans might, but they got their machine to make up into down and down into up.
Fighting against Republicans using their own morality rules won’t work. They made the rules. It’s why when they start talking about stuff from the Bible and you counter with stuff from the old testament they make excuses or just ignore you like you don’t understand.
Palin is costing McCain some of the women vote according to polls, that’s good enough. I suspect she’s going to be making plenty of mistakes on the road. Frankly, I’m going to feel sorry for her being on the campaign trail, enormous pressure from fundies, taking care of a special needs child, jeezus. It’s going to be a hard couple of months for her. She’ll probably crack under the pressure.
McCain and the economy and foreign policy that’s our strength. Fuck this other shit. It’s just a distraction. Now let’s see some democratic love and maybe we can all sing “We are the world” after that. :)
cain
Cain
Er.. didn’t we get a surplus after Clinton? or is this some other kind of debt I’m not aware of?
cain
michelle
The only reason the RNC and McCain are worried about the storm in the gulf is more than clear.
Focus on that.
What else will change?
Xenos
deficit does not equal debt.
But after the deficits we are running now, the debt remaining from the Reagan deficits don’t look so bad.
LiberalTarian
You’re new around these parts.
Hardly. I wouldn’t dirty the hem of my skirts with your like.
You think decency=spineless. It sucks to be you. It very well could always suck to be you.
You’re a freepi in training. Get an education, and after that, get a job. You know, one of those things with benefits.
I, on the other hand, get out and do the work. I raised my kids as a single mother, and I taught them to have better values than gossip and whoremongering.
Liberals don’t need you. Get a ratfucking job–I hear the Young Republicans like this kind of bullshit.
b-psycho
The surplus was the yearly gov’t budget. The debt was the national debt, which briefly started to decrease to the point where that debt clock in NY was turned off for a bit. At the rate we’re going, it’ll be shut off again next year for a different reason: not enough zeroes.
JGabriel
Cain:
You’re confusing surplus/deficit with debt. Clinton left us with an annual surplus in the budget, but there was still serveral trillion in debt – an amount Bush has increased by 5 trillion in 7 years.
In other words, surplus & deficit refer to whether we stay within or exceed our annual budget, including interest and debt payements. Debt refers to the amount of money we owe overall.
.
Sleeper
Well, no. They just lost earlier than we did. We’re still hauling around that crushing debt load we built up. And I’m not sure that causing an authoritarian regime to spend every last ruble on nothing but nuclear weapons and delivery systems for those weapons, to the point where they collapse and the new Russian Weimar Republic can no longer pay their soldiers to guard those enormous nuclear stockpiles, was such a peachy idea.
This is just silly. You might have a case for American socialism and communism up through the 1960s, but please give me the names of any seriously respected shapers of thought or political heavyweights during the Reagan years who were calling for us to emulate the Soviets.