I guess someone has to do it, since the media is not, but I think we need to create a place to document Sarah Palin’s known thoughts on current issues. I have no idea what her thoughts are on a wide range of issues, and all I really know about her is that she milked some more money out of the oil companies and is a non-denominational evangelical and once was runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant (although, in fairness, it appears I know more than the McCain campaign did when they chose her). Other than that, she is just a blank slate.
Use the comments here to put her known thoughts/comments and a link to a legitimate cite. Once we get a little bit of information, we can break the comments/thoughts down into categories (foreign affairs, military, environment, education, etc.).
mgordon
Don’t forget, she has extensive national security experience protecting the shores of Alaska from the Russian army.
McCAIN\MILF ’08 YOU BETCHA!!!!
stevie314159
Just go to http://www.ontheissues.org and look for all the blank spaces under issue stances.
Jay
538 has a few with polling on each of the issues.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/sarah-palin-compassionate-conservative.html
wvng
John, Actually, a very good place to start your project is with Ambinder this morning in a post titled What McCain didn’t know about Palin.
Another is this piece from Daily Kos from georgia10 on “What is Sarah Palin’s relationship with the Alaskan Independence Party (AIP)?“
BombIranForChrist
I would like some clarification on the birth control issue. People say she is against birth control, but the only cite I see is this: http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/30/worst_pick_ever.html. Where is his source?
I want her to come out and say, in front of her conservative base and in front of moderate independents, if she is against birth control for married couples. I would also like to see a better cite than above.
cat chew
A start: http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm
boonagain
It seems to me that her only thoughts and inerests are how fruitful this job will be for Alaska.
For a ‘reformer’, she seems to have a LOT of interest in pork.
Joshua Norton
Cindypills: Sarah Palin is “heavily experienced… she was a member of the PTA! ”
No. Really.
Alex Knapp
At the risk of pimping myself out, I published a long article about whether Palin has an actual conservative governing record:
http://www.hereticalideas.com/2008/09/the-conservative-case-against-sarah-palin/
The answer, by the way, is no.
I’m more of a libertarian, myself, but that’s the angle I went with this morning.
L. Ron Obama
We have entered the twilight zone
PsiFighter37
McCain’s vetters must be wetting themselves over this. The visual evidence was too hard to deny, even if the story was somewhat different.
Harley
Well, she’s got some cool pastors. Apparently Joe Leiberman is not going to heaven.
searp
I want to know if she is a Biblical literalist: does she believe every word in Biblical inerrancy?
zzyzx
The answers to questions 1 and 4 here are interesting as is the fact that in 12, she prioritizes stopping same sex marriage over stopping gangs in what policies would be family friendly.
Joy
I wonder what the right wing evangelicals will say about this?
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1318541.aspx#comments
It seems Governor Palin is about to become a grandmother for real.
searp
Poorly written: does she believe in Biblical inerrancy?
zzyzx
Wow my link got swallowed somehow. It’s http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html
waddayaknow
I thinks it is best for the process to run with little obsruction other than honest reporting of the facts. No “pretty librarian” comments, please. IMO, the current Repub ticket is a reflection of the Kerry/Lieberman ticket in 2004. The R party has painted itself in a corner on this and their options have been severely limited in every possible direction. I am in agreement with Obama that the very presence of the female vp candidate is more a sign of the change that is taking place in our political system than it is a threat to a Democrat president in Nov.
Here is a gushing take on the gov…. I hope they let have a pass for the next few months, they will need her back after the election…
http://www.alaskamagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=876&Itemid=141
sublime33
Sarah Palin – Because Elisabeth Hasselbeck didn’t want the job.
PeterJ
It’s time to “Balloon Juice” the GOS, there should be some payback for everytime they’ve crashed this site…
Stupid stupid stupid.
Way too funny.
Scotty
So she must be pro shotgun weddings. Always a positive.
John Cole
Excellent. Another victory for abstinence only and family values.
Dinsdale
I want to know if she believes that creationist non-science should be taught alongside evolution.
sublime33
Sarah Palin – Because Elisabeth Haselbeck didn’t want to take a pay cut.
Andrew
No, you don’t.
John Cole
This thread is already veering off course. The idea was for you to link what you knew and what you could find, not to raise questions or get derailed into the pregnancy thing again.
Blue Buddha
So not only does she have an unmarried teenaged daughter knocked up, she also endangered her son with a known disability by flying 8+ hours while in labor. It’s like the
bestworst of the both worlds!FearItself
They’ve gotten a start on this project on this thread at Cotigamus.
PeterJ
Obviously daughters do as their mothers.
Gov Palin’s first child seems to have been conceived out of wedlock.
gypsy howell
Now Bristol is pregnant? Oh, this is going to be good. She IS wearing an engagement ring of some sort, which I was really puzzled by when I noticed it last night. Couldn’t figure out how that played into the Trig story…
Blue Buddha
I think she mentioned teaching both creationism and evolution together in science. Also, she admits there is a climate crisis, but claims it isn’t anthropogenic.
PsiFighter37
Worth checking out is Palin’s links to the Alaskan Independence Party, which advocates secession. There’s a good post about it on the rec list at dKos.
Dinsdale
Fine John. I want to know if she still wants to teach the non-controversy in the way that she outlined here (and which courts have been knocking down in state after state):
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/08/sarah_palin_on.html
Svensker
Very thin over there, isn’t she? Except for the “Energy” section and the “family values” section — which mostly includes stuff like “trashed crappy brother in law” and “voted Miss Congeniality”.
gypsy howell
Well, I’m pretty sure she doesn’t believe in birth control. Or sex education, apparently. There John, does that bring it close enough back on track?
PeterJ
Epic Fail.
Mike
I’m with her on that.
Gym Rat
Hundred bucks says mother and daughter have identical “tramp stamps” on their lower backs.
jrg
If Palin’s daughter really is pregnant, expect that to be spun as increasing her pro-life cred. The fundies will claim that this teen pregnancy shows that they know more about raising families than the latte-sipping, condom using liberal elite.
The media will happily play along with that narrative, because it’s somehow less offensive than pointing out that the Republican party is more dysfunctional than the average trailer park.
EL
well, we know she approved of at least one windfall profits tax on the oil companies.
Rosali
Eagle Forum Questions:
Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
Sarah Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
boonagain
Guess she didn’t tell Britol about that abstinence thingy.
This just gets stranger and stranger>
LiberalTarian
So, Bristol Palin is pregnant. Wow. Congratulations.
So I guess this officially answers one question: no, absolutely no vetting.
I’m sorry, and I know we should live in a better world, but there are many, e.g. people who promote abstinence only education and purity balls, who think a teenage pregnancy is shameful and a poor reflection on the parents.
Of course, IOKIYAR. /snark
Then again, with a new baby with Down’s Syndrome, and a pregnant daughter, this might be an opportunity for McCain to dump her from the ticket. For once, “leaving to spend more time with her family” might actually be 100% appropriate.
lilly Von Schtupp
If the Republicans have “trailor park values”, then that is an insult to us good folks in teh trailor parks.
liberal
NARAL claims that she opposes a woman’s right to an abortion except in cases where the woman’s life is at stake. Meaning no abortion allowed for rape and incest.
They cite two Alaskan papers:
Here’s the relevant stuff from the Juneau Empire story:
Here’s the relevant stuff from the AND article:
lilly Von Schtupp
D’oh! Trailer, not trailor!
dBa
When asked about her minor daughters pregnancy she was heard stating: “My values aren’t necessarily shared by my family, yup, yup”
EL
Ok, John, here’s a start:
Embryonic Stem Cell Research – against
Abortion – only when the life of the mother is endangered, against for rape, incest and the health of the mother. “I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor’s determination that the mother’s life would end if the pregnancy continued.”
Global Warming – doesn’t believe human activity is responsible
Earmarks – for, while she was mayor her town hired a lobbyist to get more federal dollars
Sex education the choice was Explicit vs. Abstinence only. She endorses abstinence only, “explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support”
Legalized Gambling against, “No, in so many cases, gambling has shown ill effects on families and as Governor I would not propose expansion legislation.”
Same sex spousal benefits Against, “No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens as defined in our constitution.” (People make much of her complying with an Alaska court order and not signing a bill that would prohibit such benefits. She made it clear that the Alaska Department of Law advised her the bill was unconstitutional and that she had not choice.)
Pledge of Allegiance and the phrase ‘under God’ “ If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.” (snicker)
PC
Why did McCain pick Governor Lifetime Channel as his running mate?
LiberalTarian
Oh, and don’t forget, her son is deploying to Iraq. I mean, I know she isn’t completely up to speed “on what the VP does,” but as a parent, I have a tough time seeing how she can be on the campaign trail for months into the future and then, heaven forfend, should McCain win, take an applied course in American governance and still be a dedicated mother. Something is seriously amiss here.
Three of her five children could really use at home parents right now. McCain really does have lousy judgment, but it appears that Palin’s is worse. She should have said “thanks but no thanks” for real (not like she didn’t actually say for the bridge to nowhere).
EL
And the citation for Global warming is from an interview with NewsMax. Not a credible source normally, but it’s a direct quote from her interview
“I’m not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.”
Andrew
More Eagle Forum:
Shorter Palin: The 2nd Amendment is a family value.
Eural Joiner
I’ll repeat what I keep seeing about the Obama strategy – don’t go after Palin, go after McCain’s process and decision. If this is his “style” what the hell are we in for if he get’s elected?
This is turning into one of the weirdest, craziest, most historical elections – ever!
Sorry, John, nothing to really add to the content of the thread you’ve started. I guess you should just label my post…oh, I don’t know…balloon juice?
dBa
Are you kidding? Tits and Ass, man, tits and ass.
Andrew J. Lazarus
Look, the point of abstinence education isn’t to stop teen pregnancy. It’s to stay right with Jeebus.
D. Mason
I hate you for making me defend Palin but believing in the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights is not just a family value, it’s an American value.
Just Some Fuckhead
Some of your half-cocked readers are probably wondering why attacks on the family are okay now. I’ll explain it to ’em:
Shut up, that’s why.
Dave_Violence
Groan.
Hot or not, the hypocrisy factor is too high… For my own transgressions (thankfully not including knocking up a girlfriend or otherwise fathering a child out of wedlock) I’ve paid a heavy price – perhaps deservedly so, but maybe a bit too much. This stinks of the powerful, influential, protective parent holding the offspring to a lesser standard than others.
To make up for it, I want to hear of a shotgun wedding and the kicking-out of the “kids” from their homes, to live on their own (but… support from parents isn’t unreasonable).
I’d be intellectually dishonest to not recognize Hillary! as the superior person and mother.
Damn!
NB: I don’t expect Palin to be canned at all; that would be bad, bad, bad play.
oh really
She’s a drug addict. No way around it. She apparently admits to having smoked marijuana when it was legal in Alaska, BUT illegal in the United States. And as we all know, the addictive qualities of gateway drug marijuana mean that she’s
probablyundoubtedly using heroin now.I DEMAND A DRUG TEST!!!
I don’t want no heroin addict with her finger on the button (even if it’s just the off button on the DVD player).
Now, I really, really want to know what her views are on medical marijuana.
Rosali
So who’s going to replace Palin on the ticket? Maybe we need to start cataloguing Pawlenty’s or Portman’s positions.
SpinDizzy
In the Alaska Eagle Forum’s 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire, they asked, among other questions: “Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?”
Sarah Palin responded: “Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.”
A strong statement, but it shows how little Palin knows about the history of the Pledge. In fact, the phrase, “Under God,” wasn’t from the founding fathers, and neither was the Pledge itself.
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister named Francis Bellamy, some years after the founding fathers did their important work.
In 1951, the New York City branch of the Catholic Knights of Columbus began to include the phrase in their recitation of the pledge. This spread to the Knights of Columbus nationwide, and they began to lobby Congress to make the change an official part of the Pledge. They were successful and President Eisenhower signed the bill into law on Flag Day, June 15, 1954.
carsick
Apparently, she doesn’t believe in teaching kids about contraception.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26496189
Just Some Fuckhead
I grew up in the Fundie environment, my folks were missionaries. Imagining what is going on behind the scenes in that family really tears me up. No doubt Bristol has already had a lecture about how her “sin” might very well prevent mom from being President. They may not be as “committed” as the folks I grew up with. Let’s hope so for the sake of the mental health of the children.
Brick Oven Bill
This could be a very significant issue with Sarah Palin. I’ll call it the Orange Glove Problem. Sarah held a commercial fishing license before being tapped for VP.
Genine
Look, I know Sarah Palin is a joke. But because she is a joke, there are many avenues for making fun of her without being sexist about it. I honestly don’t think most of you are being intentionally sexist. But the last few days have gotten pretty bad. *I’M* getting offended, and that’s very hard to do.
This is John’s blog and I am merely a commenter, but if could cut out the sexist crap, it would be greatly appreciated.
Besides, what does it say about your snark skills that vp/milf, “tramp stamp”, and talking about her looks is the best you can do? ;-)
Thanks!
ThymeZone
Whoops, posted this to wrong thread, reposted here:
Popcorn, please. This just gets funnier every day.
iluvsummr
Sorry if someone has already posted this, but Palin believes in abstinence-only education in place of sex-ed. This belief has worked out quite well for her 17 year old pregnant, and soon-to-be-wed daughter.
oh really
More GREAT news for John McCain.
nickm
what’s the matter with being pregnant and married before graduating high school? that’s what real americans do, you elitists! /snark
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
Not now that the fundies have been whipped into a rapturous froth. We will however, be treated to excruciating analysis on the virtue of redemption.
Sure wish I could get out of here but the doors have no knobs.
PeterJ
My guess, McCain knowing about the pregnancy and still picking her is a bigger problem than that Palin’s daughter is pregnant.
Great vetting process though.
dr. bloor
Laugh if you want, but I distinctly remember seeing Ken Howard, Howard DaSilva and William Daniels singing the pledge–including “Under God”–in 1776.
Too stupid to breathe, much less govern.
Notorious P.A.T.
I have no trouble believing that at all.
Is she against “explicit math”? “Explicit history”? “Explicit gym”? Or would she prefer something along the lines of “okay kids, factoring the quadratic equation gets you. . . well. . . you know.”
Notorious P.A.T.
How warped is that? What an a–hole.
Scott H
Palin family statement: “We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby…” [emphasis mine]
It was a bitch finding a news report that didn’t scrub that particular line.
If I appear to quibble, this is what poker players would call a “tell.” Make up your own minds whether she believes “choice for mine, but not for thine” or not.
Really, I’m not sure of the point of this exercise. What Palin believes, what she says she believes, what she says, and what her actions are don’t appear to have much coherence (see citations in this thread and others).
Aaanyway, according to McCain spokesman Steve Schmidt, in the same AP report, “Life happens.” Yep, one day you’re just crossing the street and whoops! you’re preggers. I’m sorry, but that’s a little too whimsical for my comfort zone.
capelza
I think she is a joke for VP, but what does having a commercial fishing license have to do with running for office?
Her family has a set net site (land based), I think. She’d have dirt on her gloves.
Krista
Seconded. All it does is make us look like a bunch of assholes.
Palin is absurdly unqualified to be VP, her ignorance of global issues knows no bounds, and her policy positions are utterly ludicrous. There is an embarassment of riches from which we can choose. Let’s leave gender out of it, okay?
kthxbai
Phoenix Woman
Dear Sarah Palin:
You knew your unmarried, teenage daughter was pregnant well before John McCain came a-calling. You knew that the news would come out someday.
Why the hell didn’t you just tell him “thanks but no thanks”?
I’m beginning to go back to my original thought on this, which is that McCain’s people picked her because they wanted someone to take the fall when he lost.
Tsulagi
It’s clear why McCain chose Palin. She brings all the stalwartness of Multiple Choice Mitt to the table, plus does so in sort of a naughty librarian package to shore up the Republican heterosexual illusion. From the Anchorage Daily News in the land of Tubes/Bridges to Nowhere Stevens…
So she used the bridge to help get her into office, but after getting into office nationally when the bridge wasn’t selling well, she was against it. But not against keeping the money. And brilliantly continuing to build a road to where the bridge she was now taking a principled stand against would have been.
Nothing like the sweet smell of core Republican principles and competence cooking together in one pot.
Notorious P.A.T.
You’re right, it’s not like she opened the door by prctically listing “Miss Alaska Runner-Up” on her resume.
jukeboxgrad
“Bristol Palin is pregnant”
Quick! Someone use this headline: It’s Juno in Juneau.
Notorious P.A.T.
Is this a valid point to bring up? From Jesus’s General:
Link
EL
What I’d like to find out is policy on birth control. I’ve seen articles saying she is against and articles saying she is for. Anyone finding something definitive on this issue, please post!
(And to shortcut unwelcome comments, not on her personal opinion of birth control for herself or family, but rather in general as applied to the public.)
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
“tramp stamp” — sexist
VPmilf/milf — Vulgar, tasteless, generally obnoxious, but not sexist.
While I’m with you in principle, arbitrary designation of what is/isn’t sexist, not so much.
capelza
Krista..the weird thing is, it was the righties who are calling her VPILF and talking about how hot she is. She’s more centerfold to them than serious politican.
oh really
John McCain chose Sarah Palin to be his running mate.
Bristol Palin, Sarah’s 17-year-old daughter is pregnant.
John McCain is running around pretending to be president, sending personal representatives to foreign countries, and guiding emergency response efforts for national disasters (that haven’t even happened yet).
Man, they told me I could have weird dreams if I took Ambien, but this is ridiculous.
Fortunately, I’ll wake up soon…
PeterJ
Two thumbs up.
(Am I going to get sued now?)
Dave_Violence
They do a serious job of vetting for the “Wife Swap” TV show.
check out the application, for example (CAPS in the application):
Apparently the GOP didn’t do this.
Phoenix Woman
Joe Scarborough is aghast — and this is BEFORE the knocked-up daughter news hit.
Okay, the Palin Ticket Withdrawal Countdown Clock starts right now.
Blue Buddha
So far… but it can’t be a complete Lifetime show unless Palin or one of her daughters gets killed or kills someone else.
John Cole
How about you all just show a lick of common sense and not use any of the crap that could be interpreted as sexist, and will be used against Obama. Every time you guys do this shit, Obama gets blamed. It is happening already- they are wedding Obama to the panty-sniffing of bloggers as we speak.
Jesus fucking christ, you people are stupid.
The Raven
“The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor’s race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state’s public classrooms.”* (Article predates McCain’s choice of Palin.)
tomjones
Some of the comments here that specifically invoke the governor’s sex – tramp stamp, in particular – are making me cringe. And I am in the crew that relished mocking Sen. Clinton during the primary.
I am trying to think of what the correlary for pregnancy and motherhood would be for a male politician, such that we can conduct a thought experiment of how said correlary might be discussed without appearing to be misandrist.
Um, maybe it would be passing a kidney stone?
Jill Howell
A commenter, vbdietz, on a Billmon post at DailyKos, has a post up with, as of now, probably every known/available link to info on every facet of Palin. Well worth checking out.
John, you forgot the category of government. Let’s start at the beginning. Palin isn’t quite clear on the role of US Vice President. Palin’s question about what a VP does starts at 2:56 and is followed by Larry Kudlow informing her “it is a pretty big job” to which Palin responds so is being Governon of Alaska. (Sorry, this isn’t the best video of this exchange. The beginning of the clip is her defending her decision to fire Monegan.)
In this clip she encourages scrutiny as she has nothing to hide so no one should be afraid of asking her tough questions during this campaign. One last thing, this is probably off topic but, she outright lies in the interview by claiming she never tried to get Wooten, her brother-in-law fired. Amazing!
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
For the record, I don’t, haven’t and won’t use any of it.
I didn’t even know what milf stood for till yesterday and I don’t like seeing it for the reasons you said. But arbitrarily assigning negative words that could be construed as sexist, would ban too many words IMO and leaving gender out of it is something that seems impossible. Is she a Eunuch?
But, as has been said before, it’s your blog.
Just Some Fuckhead
Breaking story:
“Today, somewhere on the intertoobz, Obama spokesperson Stuck In The Fun House (nj) has thrown the campaign into disarray by flagrantly suggesting “milf” is not a sexist term, but rather “vulgar, tasteless, generally obnoxius..” Mr. or Mrs. Stuck In The Fun House (nj) went on to say that he/she was generally against using such terms of derision but disliked the “arbitrary designation of what is/isn’t sexist.” McCain campaign officials, media gasbags and fainting couch enthusiasts were aghast at the comments by Mr. or Mrs. Stuck In The Fun House (nj) comments and have forthrightly called for his dismissal from the Obama campaign.”
John, you have well and truly lost your fucking mind.
gbear
Well here’s a new non-family talking point about Ms. Palin’s political background via the Washington Post:
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens’s 527 Group
LiberalTarian
Which is why, when Obama campaigns, he is going to do the right things and say the right things. I’m hoping he will say something like, “We have to hold our leaders to a high standard. Judgment is not born of reflex, but of thoughtfulness. As a leader I will be thoughtful, and I will not let you down.”
And, he’ll figure out what to say when they try to hang the DFH’s behavior around his neck. Something along the lines of, “People are frustrated. They are concerned about their future, and angry about the recent past. They may be venting their frustration, which is unfortunate. But my leadership will go a long way toward striving to channel that anger productively, to rebuild America as it should be, not as it is now.”
Or something. Yeah, people are stupid. Keep your fingers crossed that they are smart enough to elect Obama.
Georgette Orwell
It isn’t about Palin. It’s about McCain’s judgment, or lack thereof. Rinse and repeat.
Phoenix Woman
Okay, folks, this is serious:
Cops are tear-gassing peaceful protesters at the RNC right NOW. Water cannons are being used, too.
Spread the word!
w vincentz
Sympathy to JC,
Kinda like herding cats,huh?
OK, now that that’s settled, I’ll start by saying she loves her 17 year old-knocked-up daughter. She’ll probably have a “formal” Alaskan wedding for her. That’s when they paint the shotgun white.
Feel the love.
I’d really like to know why she hates polar bears so much.
I kinda like them, though I’ve never eaten one. They must taste a lot like seal or walrus. (note to self, go to food channel and do recipe search).
What did she do with the “earmark” money that was supposed to be spent on the “bridge” to Ketchikan? She didn’t give it back. Did it go into some “home-schooling” sex education strategy?
Geesh, it would’ve bought a train load of condoms.
Love (and I mean it) and peace…out.
tomjones
Just Some Fuckhead, you seem to forget that the perception which takes hold in the media – say, that Sen. Clinton was the victim of widespread sexism – does not always track the reality.
Only a fool would deny that the McCain camp is literally pissing themselves waiting to pounce on supposed sexist attitudes toward Gov. Palin. In fact, it’s the only thing that might actually accomplish what they hoped this pick would, which is to attract disappointed Clintonites.
slip
Happened to me last month. It was no picnic, my friend. As I whimpered on the floor in a fetal position, my wife drew a cross on the carpeting. It pulled me through.
Jill Howell
John, your desire to stick to Palin’s position on current issues is valiant. Unfortunately none of the substantive info garnered in this exercise will be useful given the media’s penchant for filling our public debates with only the most tawdry and inconsequential tidbits. To effectively combat this opponent we may just be better served by knowing everything there is to know about Bristol’s pregnancy, Troopergate, her reasons for jeopardizing the health of her yet unborn fifth child, the proximity of Russia and Alaska, etc.
And if you decide this might be a better strategy I have a great, although sickening, theory about her erratic behavior surrounding the birth her fifth child.
empty
So the three would include the fourteen year old and the seven year old. So does the fact that Obama’s children are seven and ten mean that they could really use at home parents right now – and that Obama has lousy judgment? Just asking.
dewberry
I think the problem is that she doesn’t believe in much of anything. Other than a vaguely “pro-family” stance which defies logic, that is. Meaning that it does nothing to actually help families rather than legislate how people should act.
I find her statements contradictory and simplistic. I can respect a conservative who has really thought about things and come to different conclusions than I have.
But, then you can count me among those people who thinks it’s a really good idea to have someone really smart as president, not someone I want to clown around with at a frat party.
Just Some Fuckhead
Yes, spread the word that the protesters will be hung around Obama’s neck and cause him to lose. Geez, will no one sit on their fucking hands and not breathe until November 5th?!
CAN WE GET SOME GODDAMN CAMPAIGN DISCIPLINE HERE STAT!
johnosahon
she believes in “ABSTINENCE ONLY” but somehow, somehow her daughter is pregnant.
empty
John, you might just want to go over to Wikipedia and take a look. Be a lot quicker and a lot more productive than asking these clowns.
Mutant Poodle
See here for her answers to an eagle forum questionnaire…
No abortion except if the mother’s life is in danger; yes to letting parents opt out of classes for their kids that offend their beliefs, and so on…
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
I tell you one thing I do think is truly sexist, and that’s the meme that because she a passel of kids and one with special needs, she can’t be a good parent and hold high office at the same time. I’ve even seen it discussed in the MSM> But what do I know, as a lowly massaggist.
PeterJ
The GOP will suspend the election. All hail Dear Leader George W Bush.
(I hope we are allowed to use Dear Leader now.)
LiberalTarian
Hey, I am progressive, but even I don’t go around saying men=women and women=men in all respects. Good grief, you don’t think Michelle Obama isn’t going to be home with those girls? Being a mom is different than being a dad.
Really, the question is sophomoric. You really think Mr. Palin can be a mom to his kids while Mrs. Palin is working 60 hours a week?
Krista
Exactly. Like it or not, the right-wing blogs AND the msm are only too happy to judge Obama by anything that any of his supporters say.
It sucks, it’s stupid and it’s unfair. But, this is the reality that we have to deal with.
So why insist upon harping on pregnancy rumours, beauty-queen putdowns and talk of MILFs, just because you feel like being a big, bad, free-speechifying rebel?
It’s not harming Palin or McCain any. But will it harm Obama? Yeah. It probably will. You want to harp on Palin, harp on her inexperience, or her policies, or the fact that she has a history of lying? Go for it. But the gender-based stuff really is pretty unnecessary.
Plus, it’s painting John in a pretty bad light, and that’s not fair either.
Anybody who knows me knows that I am far from being a pearl-clutcher when it comes to seeing sexism, so if some of this discussion is making me uncomfortable, then yeah — it’s getting kind of bad, guys.
ThymeZone
Kevin Drum (now at Mother Jones) reports this delightful focus group summary from over the weekend.
Her up-tick was opposing Bridge to Nowwhere, which as we now know, she didn’t. Oh well, easy come, easy go.
capelza
stuck in the fun house…
If ANY VP pick, unvetted as Palin..let’s say her husband and partner in government decided that at a time of family crises…a newborn Down’s baby AND a pregnant teenager…well, I’d wonder about their family values that at that time, they thought devoting themselves to a campaign far from home…well it does make me question their priorities, man or woman.
w vincentz
@Phoenix Woman,
St Paul…Tienaman Square…what’s the difference?
Oh! Yes, “we” have a democracy with a Constitution that grants us certain “rights”.
NOT!
LiberalTarian
Having a passel of kids should mean being willing to parent that passel. Personally, I wonder about both parents.
If they don’t put their own family first, I don’t believe for a second they care even a little about mine.
John S.
Governor Palin and her husband both work. Granted, the governor has her hands full with Alaska, but VP will increase her workload tremendously. And don’t forget in addition to the two older kids, the Palins have a special needs infant. And a child in the military on active duty.
Obama is currently a high profile Senator from Illinois running for President. The increase in responsibility for him woulkd also be tremendous, but not nearly so much as Palin’s would be. And as First Lady, what exactly will Michelle Obama be doing if not staying at the White House a lot with her children? The comparison is totally flawed.
It was a stupid question. Just saying.
ThymeZone
But Krista, with the exception of you and Rome and a couple of other people, we are a bunch of assholes.
Just saying. Asshole, and Proud Of It. That’s why this is such a great blog. All the nice people are over at this place.
Krista
This is the type of thing I’m talking about:
So yeah — when the msm makes Obama look bad by saying that his supporters are spreading those rumours, gee…who do you think they’re talking about? They’re not talking about the word on the street. They’re talking about blogs. Like this one.
With friends like us, he really doesn’t need enemies, does he?
Genine
Tom Jones is right on point with that. This kind of behavior is exactly what the McCain camp wants so that they can use the same rallying cry as Clinton did. Will it make women vote for McCain? Maybe a few idiots, but for the most part- no. But it might encourage the tepid female Obama supporters to stay home on election day- especially in swing states. Zuzu on Shakesville, a women with whom I despise the fact I share a gender, let alone an opinion, makes this point.
Also it doesn’t matter if the sexism comes from the “left” or “right” it still sucks. In fact, for me, it sucks more coming from the “left” because I expect better. That’s my issue, I know, but that’s how it is.
Also calling her vp/milf is sexist in that it comes off as degrading and that degradation is based on gender. There has also been talk of “tits and ass” and whatnot. Her being a beauty queen, imo, shouldn’t have any bearing on the insults against her. Someone can be smart, thoughtful and knowledgeable about issues and still be a beauty queen. Just because Palin hasn’t been able to pull that off doesn’t mean squat.
Finally, like I said, I doubt you all are being intentionally sexist. One of the reasons I am speaking out is because people will use what you all say and play victim. Those on the left and those on the right will do this. Hell, to this day they’re still whining about it. So there is no need to give them more fuel to rile people up. These are the same people that blame Obama for the jerk statements made by bloggers for goodness sake. (“Obama should say something to make them stop. Wahh!”) And we don’t need any more of that crap. Especially as it gets closer to election time.
gypsy howell
Jill, I bet you and I are on the same page. I also have a theory about why a woman would exhibit such reckless behavior in a high risk pregnancy if she were concerned about the live birth of a baby with known birth defects. But I won’t elaborate on it here.
Meanwhile, “choice for me but not for thee” is my main take-away from today’s news announcement. I love the irony of Sarah Palin making it clear it was her daughter’s CHOICE to have the baby.
empty
By “can be a mom” I presume you mean look after the kids? I don’t know how good Mr. Palin’s parenting skills are but in my experience men who are the primary caregivers do no worse (and no better) than women. Given the strong opinion you have on this subject perhaps you can direct me to evidence that indicates otherwise.
PeterJ
Sadly, my guess is that they would try to pin it on us or on Obama anyway.
I mean they are calling Andrew Sullivan a leftist blogger…
Genine
That’s exactly how I feel. You said it so much better.
CharlesF
From Booman today:
“Let me disclose something. Bloggers and progressive activists talk to each other and strategize together. We didn’t want to touch the Sarah Palin pregnancy story with a 10-foot pole and the overwhelming consensus was to strongly discourage anyone that was running with the rumors. These rumors were started in the spring by Republicans in Alaska and not by the progressive blogosphere. We stifled the story as much as we could without deleting people’s diaries.”
Last night I was curious about the reality of the Palin story, just cause it was like something out of a soap opera, and didn’t understand the censoring going on here. I mocked the idea that John thought we were part of the campaign, and that we couldn’t just say anything on our minds.
Well, today the McCain campaign lets us know that the daughter is having a baby, and there is a lot of howling about how the scummy left blogs forced this out in the open with their rumor mongering.
So now I am thinking it was a set-up. Start the rumors going, or if not that, use them as cover to release awkward info that would have come out eventually. So I guess even political discussions online are now part of the campaign. Odd.
gbear
Phoenix Woman – I called Dave Thune and let him know about it. He’s downtown in the protest area. About half an hour ago I heard someone barking out orders to get moving and looked outside to see that there’s a bust going on by my house a couple miles west of downtown. I can’t see how large a group is involved from my house. This just frickin’ sucks.
w vincentz
@TZ,
That site made me pee my pants.
Now, as a recovering “asshole”, (Hi, my name is ____, and I’m a recovering asshole), I’ll just say that I’ve been treated like one for a long time. Frankly, I’ve had “enough”. Though, ny friend, Krista choses to continue to call me one, the name calling is not helping my recovery.
I, like my brothers and sisters now being peppered sprayed in St Paul, have also had “ENOUGH”.
ASSHOLES of the World UNITE!
How dare the fine folks in the good ol’ US of A lecture the rest of the world about “human rights”?
ENOUGH! ENOUGH! ENOUGH!
I was going to close by saying “Fuck Bristol TOO!”, but it seems she’s already been.
Recovering ASSHOLE, signing off (for a few)
protected static
Well, there’s that whole live ammo thing… Oh yeah, and that whole main-battle-tank-for-crowd-control thing, too…
PeterJ
And as usual Michael Goldfarb is clueless.
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
capelza
My guess is they’d just hire an Au Pair or nanny like any other high powered career oriented couple with kids do in our society. I’m not saying that’s necessarily a good way to raise kids, I am saying it’s none of our business excepting assurances that the country would come first. If you wonder about their family values then there’s a whole lot of families in this country to wonder about.
ThymeZone
What’s odd to me is that three days after Palin is named, we are wrapped around the “sexism” theme again.
That’s somewhere between disappointing and just downright infuriating.
And the blogs are not responsible for creating chatter around Palin’s family. McCain, his total lack of vetting and his absurd choice, and Palin, and her representation of herself as just an aw-shucks mom and family type, are why this is happening. And a 17-year-old pregnant daughter who is not married to the father of her child is definitely not off limits in this context. That’s just bullshit. Just as it would be if Barack had an unmarried 17 year old pregnant daughter.
Plucking Sarah Palin at random out of a large pool of unqualified running mates does not entitle her to the “hands off my family” card. With all due respect, fuck her very much, and fuck John McCain very much, for putting us in this position and threatening the country with a trainwreck of a running mate. Fuck Palin for taking this assignment knowing how much baggage she is carrying around in her personal life right now. That’s not our fault.
LiberalTarian
Obama to Media, Politicos on Palin Pregnancy Story: “Back Off!”
Good leadership. I’m done with it too.
Can’t find any breaking news on the St. Paul police riots. Looking, not finding.
ThymeZone
Let’s stay on-program and do our affirmations: Just for today, I am not going to be the total and complete asshole that I really prefer to be.
Okay, I mean, just for this afternoon.
smiley
I noticed that also. It was also weird that they keep stressing that Sarah Palin chose to have her Down syndrome baby. Methinks they play pro-life for political/social/church reasons but are secretly pro-choice.
capelza
Stuck in the fun house
Sure there are a lot of high powered couples..and likely a lot of them are touting the family values canard. But they aren’t running for the second highest office in the land. While spouting family values. Of course they’d be too busy to do the family valuin’ themselves, they’d have a nanny to do it for them. That’s some pretty casual family valuin’!
When you place yourself in the position of judging others choices and actually think the government should be able to dictate their beliefs..then glass houses and all that.
Just Some Fuckhead
TomJones, Genine, I appreciate your concern. However, the ratfuckers will fuck the rats whether or not they can claim we got the rats drunk and undressed them. This is a blog with an inconsistent track record on the part of the proprietor and a pretty sordid commenting history. Cries of outrage that there’s gambling, gambling I tell ya, going on in that casino at this point are disingenuous and self-serving. While I’ve not commented publicly about Sarah Palin’s family other than to express anguish at what Bristol must be going through behind the scenes, I remain a staunch proponent of free speech and unfettered expression.
And I really can’t fucking stand scolds.
Phoenix Woman
Thanks, Gbear!
The local mainstream news media’s starting to report in on this — thankfully, KSTP (which is normally rather right-wing) has been saying over and over that the vast majority of the protesters have been loud but peaceful. KSTP (http://kstp.com/article/stories/S563244.shtml?cat=1) and NPR both state that the pepper spray only came out when some yahoos from the RNC Welcoming Committee decided to confront the cops, breaking into squad cars, and the like.
This is conflicting with some of the news we’re getting on the ground — folks on the scene are saying that legal observers from the ColdSnap Collective — people trained to spot and report on police abuse — are being snatched.
Phoenix Woman
(Sorry for the non-pretty link; the HTML coding was going berzerk on me and chopping up the post.)
LiberalTarian
Some information. This is what happens when you give up the 4th amendment … then you lose the 1st, the 5th, and the rest follow.
Gus
Shit, everyone but twitter sources and a few local media are missing a big story here.
ThymeZone
Okay, I really mean, for about the next hour.
libarbarian
Who gives a crap if its her kid or not
1) She’s got enough skeletons in her political closet that we don’t need to raid her home’s closets too.
2) I don’t even think it will turn people off because of the “hypocricy” angle. Her Daughters behavior doesn’t to make her a “hypocrite” nor will it even appear to.
Let the fucking Enquirer go there – you know they will after they struck gold with the Edwards Love Child story.
empty
Now that is a truly stupid answer. To be treasured. So if Palin is working right now that clearly means he will continue working if (god forbid) Sarah Palin becomes VP. As to Michelle Obama, let’s see what she was doing when her husband started running for office. Well,unless she gets paid for doing nothing
I think she cut back when she had to campaign and will quit altogether if Obama makes it to the White House. In the same way that Palin’s husband will probably do. Flawed comparison my foot!
dbrown
So Gov Palin can’t manage her own family – so much for Christian values being the answer for all problems – ignorance is exactly that and solves nothing. Gov Palin had a child at 43 with all the risk and the result, is a child she will ignore and have a nanny and/or others take care of; now that is family values. And her pregnant daughter is 17 and the father is ? Do we see an issue of statuary rape? Why has the ID of the father not made avaliable? But that’s only for regular people not the elite like a Governor. So if a super religious family that has a mother as Governor can not raise a teen that avoids pregnancy using ignorance … I mean abstinence, then what hope does this failed policy have for those non-elite middle class families of teens?
Then as many have noted, flying while 8+ months pregnant.
Finally, McInsane picked this T&A because that is what exfighter pilots really do (As one, I know we are some of the most sexist, and crude SOB’s. But if he vetted such a person, how is it our problem? If Obama picked a VP who had a son who feld the military so as not to serve his duty in Iraq, this would be off limits? Right and pigs will fly … I mean bushwhack really wasn’t AWOL.
PeterJ
I do hope that Gov Palin won’t whine about tougher media coverage.
dbrown
So Gov Palin can’t manage her own family – so much for Christian values being the answer for all problems – ignorance is exactly that and solves nothing. Gov Palin had a child at 43 with all the risk and the result, is a child she will ignore and have a nanny and/or others take care of; now that is family values. And her pregnant daughter is 17 and the father is ? Do we see an issue of statuary rape? Why has the ID of the father not made avaliable? But that’s only for regular people not the elite like a Governor. So if a super religious family that has a mother as Governor can not raise a teen that avoids pregnancy using ignorance … I mean abstinence, then what hope does this failed policy have for those non-elite middle class families of teens?
Then as many have noted, flying while 8+ months pregnant.
Finally, McInsane picked this T&A because that is what exfighter pilots really do (As one, I know we are some of the most sexist, and crude SOB’s. But if he vetted such a person, how is it our problem? If Obama picked a VP who had a son who fled the military so as not to serve his duty in Iraq, this would be off limits? Right and pigs will fly … I mean bushwhack really wasn’t AWOL.
sullynyc
John: found this site earlier today: http://palintology.com/
D. Mason
dbrown, that horse is dead, stuffed and mounted on McCains wall already. Why do you continue to flog that fucking horse?
Just Some Fuckhead
TomJones, Genine, I appreciate your concern. However, the ratfuckers will fuck the rats whether or not they can claim we got the rats drunk and undressed them. This is a blog with an inconsistent track record on the part of the proprietor and a pretty sordid commenting history. Cries of outrage that there’s ya know, bad stuff going on in that house of ill-disrepute* at this point are disingenuous and self-serving. While I’ve not commented publicly about Sarah Palin’s family other than to express anguish at what Bristol must be going through behind the scenes, I remain a staunch proponent of free speech and unfettered expression.
And I really can’t fucking stand scolds.
*I had to edit my remarks to get around the spam filter.
Martin
Shit, this rumor has been going around the GOP in Alaska for months. The problem isn’t this site but the failure to recognize that the media has fuckall ability to reason:
1) Rumor bad for McCain must mean:
2) Rumor was driven by Obama.
Nobody seems to be able to reason that this shit came from the GOP first. These rumors always come from inside the groups that have the most access and are most concerned about the consequences. You’re always worried more about scurrilous rumors about your own guy than the other guy because it impacts your personal judgement. And this has been out there for some time, it turns out.
But you also miss that it really is word on the street. The problem is that word on the street doesn’t leave a documentation trail like blogs do. The real point, however, is that now that it’s out there, we needn’t talk about it any more. Let CNN push it from here. We don’t need to judge, the GOP does. They’re their candidates, after all.
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
By that standard all things sexual and reproductive are open to criticize for hypocrisy of fundies (eg Palin’s). Where does it end once you begin. I love you gals, but you think you have the market in choosing what is and isn’t open for charges of criticism via sexist charges. However, I’m not an idiot and your wish is my command.
For today, I will not be an asshole.
ThymeZone
The lack of fetteriness, and John, are the reasons we’re here, eh JSFudgehead?
w vincentz
@ Protected Static,
You’re kidding, right?
zuzu's petals
Okay, not a political stance, but it is apparent that Sarah Palin speaks in tongues. Or at least believes in it.
kid bitzer
jill & gypsy, the howells:
does your unspeakable theory suggest that a paternity test on trig would not clear up the mystery?
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
I’ve often wondered, do these people also hear in tongues.
The daily conundrum.
LiberalTarian
How a police state covers its tracks:
From an AP article in the Grand Forks Herald
And, what are these bomb-making materials? Cardboard boxes, glass bottles, and rags. So, any house in the US is a bomb-making facility.
I am so sick of these thugs. It has made me wonder, is the whole Palin pick just a distraction to keep us busy while the RNC does its tap dance all over our civil liberties, again?
Rome Again
“Let’s all do the Bristol Stomp!”
;)
smiley
Never noticed that before. Have I been a bad boy?
John Cole
JSF-
You are free to say whatever you want. I have not banned anyone, nor will I. What remains a mystery is that you are so god damned stupid that you can not figure out that your idiocy will be used against Obama. And everytime I point it out, that your pantysniffing will be used against the guy you pretend to support, you go off on some incoherent rant about ratfuckers.
Leads me to believe you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
Jill Howell
Gypsy, Bingo!
Her behavior throughout the pregnancy, running her guts out in her 7th month, etc. would suggest this.
It is an interesting ethical question.
Just Some Fuckhead
Pretty much, although I went through a journey similar to John’s, just years and years earlier. (Prolly closer to Rome’s, but quite similar nonetheless.) Add to that a lot of my family is in WV and I visit there three or four times a year and will retire there and it just seems like a natural blog to frequent.
Of course, I enjoy the prurient language. My wife’s best friend sports a “tramp stamp” and I found the comment to be hilarious.
Rome Again
Well, if their opening national anthem singer (some woman named “Angie” with no last name, but supporting a crown) is any indication, they have no other choice, they’ve got no game.
I couldn’t wait for her to stop singing, OUCH!
Studly Pantload
JC, with all due respect (you are truly tops in my list of bloggers of whose posts I give a damn about), I do believe you’re losing perspective.
I ask you, who can the lying McCain people point to regarding this charge? DailyKos? Well, sure, a commenter there wrote two diaries about the matter — neither of which made the Rec list, but both of which drew strong community condemnation. I mean, if the Republicans truly wanted to drag out some of the comments here, Mr. and Mrs. Low-Info-Voter would surely be asking why the fuck they should care what goes on in some blog they’d never before heard of.
And, so far as I know, the only reasonably high-ish profile blogger running with the “panty sniffing” has been Andrew-Fucking-Sullivan (“liberal” blogger — pul-leeze). And all he’s been doing is asking, “Hey, can we get a little sunlight here so that at least we can make the whispers go away?”
I mean, Christ on a crumpet, the Republicans will tie sunspot activity to Obama if they think it’ll gain traction.
That said, I too wouldn’t mind seeing less of the “V-PILF,” “tramp-stamp” commentary. Not because I’m askeered of the what the big, mean ol’ right might make of it, but out of interest in keeping the discourse here in the realm of the quality, wine-outta-my-nose reality-based snark that I love about this place.
Dreggas
Well it’s the republican convention in a state with a governor who’s a rpublican can’t expect them to not act like the gestapo now can we?
Krista
Hey, knock yourself out with the free speech. And some of us will use our free speech rights to opine that your words are not being particularly helpful at this juncture, and that some of the words used by some of the other commenters here WRT Palin are making some of us a titch uncomfortable.
Fair ’nuff?
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
Ok now, I goggled this er word and got nothing, Requesting a definition please.
And panty-sniffing should be the first word banned in keeping this blog pristine from gender massassgyni.
L. Ron Obama
You seem to consistently not see the difference between the might-be and the is. Let me help you. Best friend’s wife demonstrably has “tramp stamp” — funny. Speculating a woman and her daughter have a tramp stamp — unfunny, unfounded gossip.
Now, try to apply this to the Edwards affair vs. the Sarah Palin pregnancy smear.
cain
Yeah, frustration fuels this kind of thing. Snark out of control. I’m fairly sure that they don’t mean it either. But in addition, being accused of sexism makes people defensive making it worse.
liberaltarian,
Obama gets it. We should all back off on this stuff. It doesn’t work. As I said in the last thread, nobody gave a damn about Clinton having a hummer in the white house, nobody is really going to give a damn about whose child it is. How she treated her child might be a better attack then this kind of rank speculation. It lowers our collective eyes. (sorry, been reading Robert Jordan again)
There are two camps in here, those who want to hit back use the same tactics as the other camp, eye for an eye and they perceive others as pearl clutching because they are frustrated that the other camp is stealing the narrative and that we are ceding the field due to our weakness. The other camp contains where opinions range from actual pearl clutching, to those who want a measured response, and others who think all this might be a trap.
A couple of observations:
* if we went on the attack, us being the democratic party, a quarter of you will go out and start attacking, the other 2/4 will cut off the first 1/4 at the knees ala circular firing squad tactic in order to curry favor with the press and independent voters, the last 1/4 will be left watching and crying about the circular firing squad.
* Rove tactics tend to fail in the end, because well it’s fucking hard to be an asshole all the time especially considering what we all are fighting for and what are background are. We don’t have any of the real derangement that the other camp has about this stuff. Our heart is really not in it. If you are, you’ll just end up like the other side. Everything you’re fighting for becomes a farce. I mean look at all the sexist shit people have been filling around because of the single minded idea of winning. Do you really think you’ll convince the other side using the same langauge they do? fuck no, you’re dirty hippies to them. You’re nothing. You’re not going to get past decades of programming to reach the lot of them.
* The best way to win is to stay on message. If we pursued this it’ll work against us. We don’t have the press on our side. They can change the narrative anyway they want. I mean look at this shit, experience includes the PTA? Maybe you’re applying for a job at Walmart it might matter. It’s beyond ridiculous. Her foreign policy includes having Russia as a neighbor? Come on. I’m sure there are people who are intelligent enough to recognize that’s beyond stupid. That’s only going to work for 28% of the population. It’s not a winner. Mock them. Often.
* Our attacks should be inclusive. Obama gets this. Listen to his speech. When we attack, we should phrase it in terms of America. “Can Palin help America succeed in the global marketplace?” That immediately puts the reader in a frame of mind where they need to think of America as a whole and not whether it’s left or right. America is the team. We want our team to win. It will have a better chance of getting past the programming.
Anyways, my two cents. I’m sure not everyone will agree, but this is what I think.
cain
zuzu's petals
I’m pretty sure she cut property taxes by bringing in big-box payers like Wal-Mart. It’s a fairly standard, if locally controversial (depending on the locale), tactic.
Evidently the property tax has disappeared altogether since she left, and gov’t services are paid for by a sales tax. Another benefit of the big-box presence.
Sign on San Diego
Studly Pantload
CharlesF sez:
Bing-fucking-o.
Take the rest of the day off, CF. You’ve earned it.
Soylent Green
It’s “statutory rape,” and no, we don’t.
The age of consent in Alaska is 16.
Jill Howell
kid bitzer,
Yes, our theory assumes Sarah and Todd are in fact Trig’s biological parents.
oh really
George Bush speaks in tongues. At least that’s what I’ve always figured he was doing. Anyway, I couldn’t understand what the hell he was saying.
ECS
Well, Palin supports aerial huting of wolves (voted down by Alaskans twice), and overstepped her gubernational authority and has apparently violated state law by offering cash bounty payments to aerial wolf hunters.
http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10213
Interesing political point here–apparently Chris Shays, McSame’s campaign manager in CT is the head of the Senate’s Congressional Animal Caucus–which adamantly opposes this type of barbarism. Might be interesting to ask him and other Republican Senate members to comment on Palin’s positions and actions.
Palin also supports hunting of “habituated bears”–bears that via ecotourism efforts have become less fearful of human contact, and consequently, are easy to shoot and kill.
I also understand that she supports a proposed massive-scale gravel mining pit operation in Alaska that will destroy some significant salmon runs.
Apologies–unable to find exact links right now to the last two enviro points (but I’ve read this info in a few places).
ECS
Well, Palin supports aerial huting of wolves (voted down by Alaskans twice), and overstepped her gubernational authority and has apparently violated state law by offering cash bounty payments to aerial wolf hunters.
http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10213
Interesing political point here–apparently Chris Shays, McSame’s campaign manager in CT is the head of the Senate’s Congressional Animal Caucus–which adamantly opposes this type of barbarism. Might be interesting to ask him and other Republican Senate members to comment on Palin’s positions and actions.
Palin also supports hunting of “habituated bears”–bears that via ecotourism efforts have become less fearful of human contact, and consequently, are easy to shoot and kill.
I also understand that she supports a proposed massive-scale gravel mining pit operation in Alaska that will destroy some significant salmon runs.
Apologies–unable to find exact links right now to the last two enviro points (but I’ve read this info in a few places).
kid bitzer
“So now I am thinking it was a set-up. Start the rumors going, or if not that, use them as cover to release awkward info that would have come out eventually.”
ummm…no. not really at all.
the fact is, the girl’s being pregnant now does not in any way undercut the rumor that she had a child in april.
i think what we are seeing is a campaign in which worse and worse facts are going to come out, and the wheels are coming off altogether.
far from being in charge of a cunning plan, i think mccain’s group is realizing that they are in a heap of trouble.
Mrs. Peel
Ratfucking 101:
Actually, JSF’s remark about ‘ratfucking’ isn’t really that incomprehensible. Ratfucking is an American slang term for political sabotage started by right wing operatives working for Nixon. Post-internet, I suppose, the term is ‘trolling’. Claiming that the ‘ratfuckers’ will be disarmed if we don’t give them ammunition is a little disingenuous and a lot naive. If they can’t find any facts, they’ll anonymously log on and provide their own – then go dumpster diving and claim ‘the left’ is saying it.
The way the Mayberry Machiavellians have rigged the game, any criticism of John McCain’s record or positions on any issue is disparagement of his military service and his time as a POW and is beyond the pale. Any criticism of Sarah Palin’s record or positions on any issue is sexist and is beyond the pale.
And all the hand wringers are playing right into it.
PeterJ
Considering how inept the McCain campaign has been in vetting Palin, I highly doubt that would be able to do a set-up.
Just Some Fuckhead
John, as Studly Pantload has pointed out, Republicans and their friends in the media, like John Dickerson, will tie anything to Obama. Recognize the name “Ayers”? It doesn’t matter what some pseduonymous B-list blog commenter types with one hand while fapping with the other.
And when those attacks come the Obama campaign can respond that they’ve nothing to do with it and call on everyone to STOP SPECULATING ABOUT SARAH PALIN’S PREGNANT AND UNWED TEENAGED CHILD. How fucking easy was that??
You just keep thinking that. I was one of the folks that slapped you down when you decided to acknowledge the candidacy of Obama by making fun of him, back when. I did the same again when you decided to brand him weak and spend three posts in a row pushing rightwing memes about him.
Now suddenly I’m “god damned stupid” because I ain’t following you dimwits down the rabbit-hole of don’t do anything-don’t say anything because you got a doomsday scenario all figured out where Republicans*media*????? *xxxx -3.14 * leftybloggers+ohnoees!! = Obama loss in November.
Feel free to ignore me. I’m just some fuckhead. But you may want to listen to some of your smarter commenters. In regards to any media storylines about DailyKos pushing unfounded rumors, it was also DailyKos that debunked them. That’s what you get from a thriving diverse community of viewpoints.
Calouste
Another point about Palin family values:
While Mrs. Palin took up a job 500 miles away from their home town, Mr. Palin decided to go back to his job 800 miles away from their home town. What did they do to the kids? Leave them in the care of granny? Shuttle them back and forth between Juneau and Wassila? Inquiring minds want to know how much attention these family values people pay to their family.
Jill Howell
John, adn.com is revisiting whatever info they have on Palin and her position on current issues. This link is to Palin’s responses to a questionnaire the candidates for Governor were asked to respond to, prior to the 2006 election.
L. Ron Obama
Yes, but the debunking part doesn’t get mentioned in the media, only the pushing.
cain
Whoa, John cole is front page on KOS and no database problems. Nice!
cain
Genine
I agree Cain, which is why I did not accuse anyone of sexism. Some remarks flying around this blog the last few days have been sexist in nature, a tad more than usual. Its been making me very uncomfortable and so I asked it to stop. People are free to say whatever they want. Just as I am free to say if it crosses a line. People can change their approach or not, but at least I spoke up. I was NOT scolding anyone. Believe me, if I were scolding it would be perfectly clear and not very nice.
I don’t think most of the people here, especially the regulars, mean to be sexist. Its just things getting a bit out of control and there may not be an awareness of how it comes across. My point about how others would react and use this as an excuse to feel victimized was secondary.
Just Some Fuckhead
Elron, you spent all day yesterday shitting on folks who talked about Sarah Palin’s kids. Today you were the first outta the box with a link to the NY Times story about her teenaged daughter being pregnant. Fuck you very much.
tomjones
Krista, I agree with what you say, but I just wanted to point out that the Obama camp was responding in this case to the off-the-wall claims of an anonymous McCain staffer. Why the media felt compelled to run with those claims is anyone’s guess.
w vincentz
@ Cain,
You raise some very good points, and I agree with most of them.
The question, though, is who currently holds POWER and by what tactics did they gain and consolidate same?
I really don’t advocate “going dirty”, as has been obviously done by the puppet masters. And yes, the “high road” makes many feel righteous (though powerLESS). Note what’s currently going on in St Paul.
I value your thoughts, as you seem to have good analysis, and I don’t really know the strategy taht should be pursued.
Ignore? perhaps.
Refocus on REal issues (economy, “wars” etc.)? Might be better than letting the McSames switch this to a referendum on abortion.
I admit, recent events have been SO absurd that it’s tough to make some sense of it. I appreciate your input.
L. Ron Obama
JSF, again, you need to learn the difference between irresponsible speculation and fact. Noting MSM article on confirmed pregnancy of daughter — fact. Accusing woman of faking her own pregnancy to cover up her daughter’s based solely on the fevered imaginations of bloggers — irresponsible speculation.
Phil
I must say it is fun to watch John continue to trot out “But she doesn’t have enough experience!!” while continuing to support Obama, even though she has more executive experience than he does. Apparently the logical inconsistency is completely beyond him. Just repeating it doesn’t make it logical John. It just makes you sound like Andrew Sullivan.
But by all means, please do underestimate her. Everyone in politics that has before isn’t around to talk about it:
“In the roughly three years since she quit as the state’s chief regulator of the oil industry, Palin has crushed the Republican hierarchy (virtually all male) and nearly every other foe or critic. Political analysts in Alaska refer to the “body count” of Palin’s rivals.
“The landscape is littered with the bodies of those who crossed Sarah,” says pollster Dave Dittman, who worked for her gubernatorial campaign. It includes Ruedrich, Renkes, Murkowski, gubernatorial contenders John Binkley and Andrew Halcro, the three big oil companies in Alaska, and a section of the Daily News called “Voice of the Times,” which was highly critical of Palin and is now defunct.”
Mrs. Peel
And right on cue – the word ‘ratfucker’ conjures up freeper Phil.
Jill Howell
The answer we’ve all been seeking – In a TPM video interview from the RNC, Tucker Carlson just explained the reason why it was okay for McCain to pick an inexperienced candidate as his running mate. Ready…Obama has proven the American people DON’T CARE about experience!
Just Some Fuckhead
Elron, stories aren’t magically deposited in the newspaper by journalism fairies. They are the result of someone somewhere speculating about something. The NY Times seem to indicate the reason the family was making the pregnancy public is because of ongoing speculation. That would seem to indicate that the story you broke your back to tell everyone about came as a result of the behavior you so deplored.
cain
While I indicated that we as a group should be on message. Ratfuckers who come into this forum are another story.
Yes, Phil, we are very afraid of her PTA experience. We promise not to underestimate her and her fantastic contribution to the PTA by kicking out the special interests. Because really, Phil our country is really one big continuous 230 year old PTA meeting. We understand that now.
cain
John Cole
Phil-
WTF are you talking about? I simply have no idea what she thinks about, well, anything.
Regardless, she could have 50 years experience underneath her belt, but I will not vote for her, because what I do know is she is a religious nut. I don’t vote for them. Ever. Period.
4tehlulz
Leave it to Phil to schlick about the authoritarian tendencies of a Republican candidate.
RSA
I’ll blogwhore a bit: A few days ago I put together a bunch of quotes from Palin, with sources. Here’s the post, and here are the first few, to give you an idea:
You’ve probably seen most of it.
Phil
Let’s be clear here – McCain picked Palin because she took on the GOP establishment in her state and crushed most of them. She primaried the corrupt GOP governor Frank Murkowski and beat him. She enjoys 80 percent + approval ratings in her state now, unheard of these days for a politician. She allows McCain the Maverick of 2000 to be himself. He doesn’t really give a flying fuck what Andy Sullivan thinks of the pick and neither do I.
Meanwhile, Obama claims he’s for unity, etc etc, but he’s the most liberal Senator in the country and never dares to cross his party. When questioned about it, the only bi-partisan bills he’s supported are an ethics bill and a nuclear non-proliferation bill, which as I’ve said before, are essentially as bi-partisan as fucking.
The only controversial thing Obama has said about liberalism is that he’s open to the idea of merit pay for teachers, but then the teacher’s unions eventually get to him and he ends up parroting their talking points.
Fact is, Obama is an empty suit and a standard liberal just offering feel good rhetoric. Considering that the vast majority of the country self-identifies as moderate or conservative, knee-jerk liberalism is not what they’re buying. If it’s what they get, they’re going to demand a refund. We’ve already had an unapologetic leftist as President before (Jimmah Carta) and it led to a one term landslide and 30 years of conservative dominance.
So be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it. And do please underestimate Sarah, we’re hoping you do.
cain
I honestly don’t know. Certainly I think media consolidation has something to do with it. I can only say how to live in the world that exists today. Grass roots campaigning like Obama is doing is the best way. Get a good ground roots messaging directly to the people and not let the republicans and the news hold sway.
cain
L. Ron Obama
Phil, we can’t underestimate Sarah Palin because we can’t even estimate her in the first place. “What Does She Believe In?”
Rome Again
Well, at least Todd, I’m not so sure about Sarah. ;)
Why did the hospital not post the birth on their births webpage? Something is up with that.
iluvsummr
In other news, realclearpolitics poll averages show Obama up by 4.5 points with the addition of the new CBS News poll (Obama:48, McCain:40).
Oh, and Palin did once agree with parts of Obama’s energy policy, but didn’t put forward any concrete ideas/suggestions for the parts she disagreed with.
Studly Pantload
JSF sez:
I would submit, instead, that the breaking of the news about Bristol’s pregnancy was the result of the eight “post vetters” the McCain camp sent to Wasilla, last night. The wail that the news had to come forth because of the “rumor mongering” is nothing more than a fresh-from-the-meadows-bullshit-scented smokescreen.
cain
Just start putting that in a commercial. It’ll drive the republicans nuts. :)
cain
AnneLaurie
Shorter Palin: The 2nd Amendment is a family value.
Because you’ll need that shotgun when your 17-year-old daughter fails her “abstinence only” sex-education course!
According to McCain’s people, we’re supposed to give Palin “executive experience” credit for running the PTA. Looks like she may not have been paying enough attention back then, either. Of course with McCain at the head of a ticket intended to carry on Bush’s toxic legacy, “paying attention” may not be considered important.
iluvsummr
From the Washington Post: Palin was once a director of Ted Stevens 527 group. This obviously helps burnish her reformer and anti-corruption credentials, firmly establishes her as a maverick, and is wonderful news for John McCain.
From the article:
Hopefully someone in the MSM will follow up on this.
w vincentz
@ Phil,
You are not speaking truth.
McCain obviously picked Palin in an attempt to have the debate issue become ABORTION (pro-life, anti -choice), rather than “economy”, “Iraq”, “healthcare”, “education” (failure of NCLB), “Constitutional trashing”…on and on.
Do you honestly think that we’re too stupid to not see through this?
dbrown
First, as we all know, McCain made a sexist and terrible joke about Hillary’s daughter and that was far, far worse than anything said here.
Next, the daughter should be off limits, true but not the mother. She is the one wanting to be VP and we have the right to question how her ideas caused this – ideas she wants to impose on all of us!
Phil
“WTF are you talking about? I simply have no idea what she thinks about, well, anything.
Regardless, she could have 50 years experience underneath her belt, but I will not vote for her, because what I do know is she is a religious nut. I don’t vote for them. Ever. Period.”
I see John. You prefer candidates who spend 20 years at the United Church of Christ and have their children baptized by people who think 9/11 was “chickens coming home to roost”. You know, “secular” kooks.
Got it John.
dbrown
Speaking of empty suits – what has McCain really ever did? First he was against torture before he became for it, like now. He has almost always voted for Bush – the worst President ever. A loser that Makes Carter look like one of the greatest.
I’d say you’d get fucked if that asshole McSame was elected but the Country could not survive that loser. Obama has wrked his way up – unlike bushwhack nor even McInsane, Obama had no important wealthy/important fathers that put a gold spoon up his ass like bush-McCain twins. You show what a know-nothing you are when you say Obama hasn’t proven his metal – unlike the losers you vote and (sexist word alert) whore for.
Stuck in the Fun House (nj)
I love this, Palin is an outstanding candidate and superior to the dem ones because she’s not a corrupt republican. Go with that Wizard Phil. And BTW, the jury is still out on whether or not, she is, in fact just another corrupt wingnuts.
dumbasses
Phil
The similarities if not the situations between Obama and Jimmy Carter are eerily similar. Remember, an inexperienced candidate (Jimmy Carter) followed a very unpopular Republican President (Richard Nixon) in the midst of an unpopular war (Vietnam) and won. During his administration, gas prices skyrocketed (check) and he was forced to confront Iran (check) and Al Qaeda (check) in Afghanistan (check) while inheriting a weak economy (check). He promised change (check) and huge government programs (check).
We all know how that worked out. But you’re right John, Carter was a born again evangelical, and Obama is more of a United Church of Christ kind of guy. But you don’t support either of those crazy religious nuts fortunately.
w vincentz
@ Cain,
Thanks for your insight. Yup, “grassroots” is exactly where Obama/Biden started.
It’s my hope that the power returns to the people that own it…the “WE”.
dbrown
Phil – what world do you exist on. Carter did not follow Nixon (it was Ford.) OK, the term was short but still, facts are facts. Gas prices went up under Carter (a Dem), it is Bushwhack (a Repubis)that gas prices are going through the roof fall faster and higher than ever what happen under Carter.
Your right about Al Qaeda but for the wrong reasons – Bushwhack (a Repubis) droped that ball and yes, Obama (a Dem) will have to deal with those terrorist.
Carter believed (and still does) in Church-State seperation unlike the fools of today, so once more you are wrong.
None of your attempts to draw parallels work at all? What is your real point?
w vincentz
Phil continues to grasp and twist.
cha, cha, cha!
Everybody dance now!
Did you catch Johnnie checkin’ her ass?
Must’ve gotten wood for him.
w vincentz
Well, well, well…
Just watched the first session of the abbreviated GOP convention on C-span.
Cindy and Laura, oh my, so concerned about the hurricane victims.
Seems that that’s what the GOP is running on…a cat 2 hurricane!
And the pastor that started with prayer…him too.
Pray for our leader? FUCK HIM!
Here’s a quote worth remembering:
“Some nations have a gift for ceremonial,” wrote the future third Marquess of Salisbury, Lord Robert Cecil, after watching Queen Victoria open parliament. “No poverty of means or absence of splendour inhibits them from making any pageant in which they take part both real and impressive. Everybody falls naturally into his proper place, throws himself without effort into the spirit of the little drama he is enacting and instinctively represses all appearance of constraint or distracted attention.”
I’ll pray for these assholes when they meet the exact same fate they delivered to Saddam Hussein after their trials in the World Court.
I’ll bring the ropes.
handy
Why does the media insist on being used by the Republicans as their infomercial. This Gustav coverage is making me sick. Like these sickos even care about hurricane victims!
I just heard a LA delegate talking about how John McCain was her “hero,” the guy who was celebrating his birthday with Bush while NOLA drowned.
Sorry to go OT but these people drive me nuts!
handy
Oh, and…
Nice playing Jesus, there, Phil, letting us know Obama’s Christianity isn’t good enough for you.
w vincentz
@ handy,
They’ve been bought.
Sojourner
Hey Phil:
Do you know anything about the United Church of Christ?
Answer carefully – I’m a long-time member.
dbrown
I think I went too far and Phil is passing. Sorry Phil. I didn’t mean to drive you away – your fun! Please come back for play. You can check my spelling.
Sondra
I found this information at PZMyers Pharyngula site and at DKos this weekend. It is not good news to me because I live in Florida and am familiar with the “work” of “Joel’s Army”; I believe they were behind a hate letter campaign against my Representative Bob Wexler.
Sarah Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse
by dogemperor [Subscribe]
Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 03:21:50 PM PDT
The big news, obviously, in the blogosphere today is John McCain’s surprise pick for the Republican veep nominee–a relative unknown by the name of Sarah Palin, whom–at least in the more conventional political circles–would appear to be a complete cypher.
Unfortunately, if one digs just a bit deeper, Palin is found to have some very interesting–and very disturbing–connections…among them, being potentially the first Assemblies-linked VP candidate and having a number of links to dominionist groups targeting kids via “bait and switch” evangelism.
snip
• dogemperor’s diary :: ::
• Palin’s Assemblies linkage
• The first link in and of itself is a doozy–and one of the most damning indeed. No less than the official newsletter of the Assemblies of God of Alaska promotes her proudly as one of the denomination’s own, and she was actually feted at an official function of the Assemblies’ Alaska District as recently as this year:
• The opening night banquet of the 2008 Alaska District Council was honored to have Governor Sarah Palin address the delegates and guests. Governor Palin spoke of her appreciation for the Assemblies of God and requested that the Council pray for both her and the State of Alaska. Superintendent Ted Boatsman, who was Palin’s junior high pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God, along with Pastor Mike Rose of Juneau Christian Center, where Palin presently attends church when in Juneau, laid hands on the Governor and led the Council in prayer.
• Snip
•
• A look at the home website of Palin’s church tends to be revealing. Among other things, a particular Assemblies buzzword associated frequently with Hillsong A/G and New Zealand Assemblies churches shows up (“Destiny”, here, is a buzzword for “Joel’s Army”, and is being preferred even as the phrase “Joel’s Army” is getting enough negative spin that even the Assemblies is now having to do some rather massive spin control); cell churches are promoted (of the same sort that are linked to short-term and longterm psychological damage and are among the most coercive tactics ever documented in spiritually abusive groups). The church, like a number of other large Assemblies churches, is the center of a dominionist broadcast TV center whose programming is carried across multiple channels in Alaska.
• In a trend that has been recently documented by no less than Southern Poverty Law Center (in its recent report on the Joel’s Army movement), the church operates a Seven Project-esque targeted recruitment campaign aiming at teens (this is common across the Assemblies and across “Joel’s Army” groups in general; fully a third of the documented national-level front groups operated by the Assemblies target teens).
• And…believe you me, Palin’s church is definitely “Joel’s Army”.
• Mike Rose, pastor of Juneau Christian Center (Palin’s church), is noted to be connected with the “Third Wave Movement”–a movement in neopente dominionist circles that is the major theological home of “Joel’s Army”. In fact, he’s quite closely connected with Rodney Howard-Browne, a major (in fact, for some years, the major promoter) of “Third Wave” neopente dominionism, and actively promotes this insanity in his church:
So she is definitely not some non-denominational variety of Christian, she is as far right in the spectrum of fundamentalism as you can go before you fall off the edge of the flat earth.
protected static
Not entirely. Given that the Tiananmen Massacre resulted in up to 5000 deaths, it’s hard to take such comparisons seriously. Do I think the police actions in MN are disproportionate and probably illegal? Yes. Do they approach the level of what the PRC did in 1989? No way.
Jill Howell
Resumes aside, real world events make it impossible to conclude Obama and Palin are equally qualified, or unqualified if you prefer, to fulfill their respective candidacies. Obama is imminently qualified, as we recently saw, to travel to foreign countries, meet with world leaders, participate in intelligent discourse, and connect with a wide array of culturally varied citizens. In other words, fulfill some of the duties of the president of the US. It is not hard to extrapolate from this that he is capable of successfully fulfilling other presidential tasks. Palin on the other hand, while knowingly being considered for vice president of the US, readily admits, in a national interview, she doesn’t know what the role requires and is waiting for someone to tell her (it obviously hasn’t occurred to her she should know this, this far into the game. One can extrapolate from this she lacks the experience required to perform the most basic functions of VP. It is patently ridiculous to conclude Obama and Palin are in any way comparable in terms of their experience.
CMcC
Time to bring up a new issue: is Palin a socialist?
Check out this article in the Seattle Times at http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html
Here are some excerpts from the article, titled “Windfall tax lets Alaska rake in billions from Big Oil,” by Ángel González and Hal Bernton
“Republicans in Congress this June united to defeat a proposed windfall tax on oil companies, deriding it as a bad idea that would discourage investment in U.S. oil exploration. Things worked out far differently in the GOP stronghold of Alaska, a state whose economic fate is closely tied to the oil industry.”
“Over the opposition of oil companies, Republican Gov. Sarah Palin and Alaska’s Legislature last year approved a major increase in taxes on the oil industry — a step that has generated stunning new wealth for the state as oil prices soared. At a time when Americans are feeling the pinch at the gasoline pump and oil companies are racking up record profits, Alaska’s choice foreshadows one of the sharpest debates in the upcoming presidential election. Democrat Barack Obama supports a national windfall-profits tax, while Republican John McCain opposes it.”
“Alaska collected an estimated $6 billion from the new tax during the fiscal year that ended June 30, according to the Alaska Oil and Gas Association. That helped push the state’s total oil revenue — from new and existing taxes, as well as royalties — to more than $10 billion, double the amount received last year. While many other states are confronting big budget deficits because of the troubled economy, Alaska officials are in the enviable position of exploring new ways to spend the state’s multibillion-dollar budget surplus. Some of that new cash will end up in the wallets of Alaska’s residents. Palin’s administration last week gained legislative approval for a special $1,200 payment to every Alaskan to help cope with gas prices, which are among the highest in the country. That check will come on top of the annual dividend of about $2,000 that each resident could receive this year from an oil-wealth savings account.”
My point: If Barack Obama proposed this kind of taxation and this kind of government spending, he would be branded a socialist.
Question: is this what the Republican Party now stands for?
PeterJ
Since there’s all this talk about religion.
Is there a Jewish backlash?
Hello Florida!
Sleeper
Alright, I know I’m not supposed to feed the trolls, but this is just too fucking obtuse, even for a Republican. The reason we had to “confront” Iran in 1979 is because our CIA overthrew their elected government twenty-six years earlier and installed an autocrat who valued Western modernity but employed a brutal secret police and military to crush any dissent, and the Iranians had had enough and allowed an even more authoritarian regime to take power so long as any and all American influence was purged. And today, the John Boltons of the world are willing to level Iranian society and carry out mass murder to ensure that Iran nevers develops the civilian nuclear program which it is legally permitted to have according to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Of course Israel already has 200 or so nuclear weapons, plus delivery systems for them, and refuses to sign the NPT, but it’s all good, the Muslims should just stop tripping and deal with it. Now that’s good diplomacy.
And Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda? The group wasn’t even founded until 1988, fuckstick. We weren’t fighting Salafi jihadis in Afghanistan, we were paying and arming the Salafi jihadis to kill communists. Kind of like how we’re now paying and arming former Ba’athist and Sunni nationalist guerillas in Iraq to kill AQI jihadis. When the Romans did this with the Vandals and the Goths, this wasn’t called “victory,” it was called “paying tribute.” But now that we’ve handed over Anbar province to the Shia central government in Baghdad, I’m sure the New Iraqi Army and the Badr Brigades will respect Sunni sensibilities and not crush our Sunni friends…well, not so much.
You are a dolt and an ignoramus.
lee
i hope you far left loonies are as interested in finding out who obama is as you are about S.P. obama’s the biggest fraud since bill clinton.
Conservatively Liberal
You are too kind in your praise and admiration of Freeper Phil. :)
Rock & roll dude!
w vincentz
@ Protected Static,
Oh, now I understand. Illegality of police states is determined by the number of dead. Quantity over quality.
Gottcha.
All I can say it was as wrong at Kent State, Ohio, long ago as it is today. I don’t have much to say about what the Chinese do to their citizens, but I certainly do in the USA.
Your “reasoning” is moronic.
protected static
*shrug* And your ‘reasoning’ is hyperbolic, so I guess at some level we’re even.
Do you really think equating what’s happening in Minneapolis with Tiananmen will help anyone take you seriously? Find me the Twin Cities version of “Tank Man”, and then we’ll talk. Until then, your overblown comparison just undermines the validity of your points.
rachel
Lets see, she’s what about five months along now? And the panty-sniffers are wanking about was born on April 18, four and a half months ago? Right. So even fudging the numbers a bit, that would mean that a girl who’s lactating (Lactation inhibits ovulation.) and who’s just barely gone through childbirth went right out and got pregnant again?
How fucking likely is this?