Anyone watching the service thing?
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by John Cole| 83 Comments
This post is in: Election 2008, Did You Know John McCain Was A POW?
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[…] Runner-up quote of the night: […]
Martin
I came in a few minutes after 6PM here on the west coast. Was gonna tune into Rachel and forgot this was on. Apparently McCain spoke a lot of words but didn’t say anything, but I missed him. Should be on iTunes later so I can catch up.
This is a great topic for Obama, though.
mannemalon
The fact that this race is supposedly close is a huge indictment on the American people.
Scrutinizer
David Gregory is such a tool.
Noah
Happy Rudy Giuliani Day!
Oh, and Rudy’s son was kicked off the Duke golf team for beating the shit out of someone!
Noah
Happy Rudy Giuliani Day!
Oh, and Rudy’s son was kicked off the Duke golf team for beating the shit out of someone!
Notorious P.A.T.
I saw most of what Obama said. He did pretty well. Nice mix of high-minded rhetoric and specifics. I missed Senator Grouchy’s segment. That’s okay, though, since anything lofty he said tonight will no doubt be superceded before the end of the week by another sleazy, dishonest commercial.
LiberalTarian
Reposting, cuz it’s worth it:
Brian J
I caught parts of it. Obama did fine, as usual, but I really like the story he told of some corporate lawyer from Montana whose brother had PTSD from serving in the military. This guy’s brother eventually committed suicide, so he started some organization to help veterans. Now, according to Obama, Montana has the best system in the country for helping veterans. The point was, Obama didn’t care about the man’s political leanings. He cared about what the guy did and what the guy could do. It makes him sound bipartisan but also serious, like he’s interested in getting stuff done. It’s a story he’d be wise to repeat, I think.
As for the Gibson interview with Palin, I wish I had seen it live. I thought it was supposed to air tomorrow night, but perhaps I’ll watch it later, if I decide a dark video is in the cards for the evening. I really, really need to get a new computer. Anyway…
SN
Am watching the “analysis” by Mitchell and Gregory. Did anyone hear Mitchell say something around this town hall crap? As in, according to McCain, if Obama would only have joined him in a town hall meeting then his campaign wouldn’t find it necessary to be as negative as it has been.
DrDave
The Lee-bruls at Columbia like Obama much better than they like McCain. No surprise there.
They asked McCain about the tone of the campaign and he said that he had hoped it would be more positive but it was all Obama’s fault for not agreeing to do a bunch of joint town hall meetings during the campaign season.
One interesting exchange was this: McCain was talking about how the military needed to be much larger and that it needed to be expanded soon. They asked him how he would feel about mandatory national service and he said he preferred for the military to remain voluntary. So they asked him how he would get more and better candidates to sign on (since the current military is, as I have read, the poorest and least educated force in our history). McCain’s answer was that we should offer better incentives to attract and retain soldiers. Here, Stengel and Woodruff missed the opportunity to ask McCain why he voted against the GI Bill. [sigh]
Warren Terra
Noah, I’d say I disliked 9iu11ani as much as anyone if I wasn’t aware there’s a fierce competition for people to dislike him more, and while I feel strongly I’m probably not in the league of the truly dedicated.
Still, may I point out that I don’t give a flying fnck what 9iu11ani’s kids do? Since when are politicians’ families supposed to be fair game, especially the families of unemployed politicians? Heck, we are so blessed to have that tool out of any public office at the moment that I can provisionally and temporarily not much care what he does, either.
Notorious P.A.T.
Shocking news! I would have thought NounVerb9/11 was a great father.
Brian J
Holy shit, did anyone see this? It’s quite a segment. I have to admire the restraint of Kuttner. I’ve imagined myself in his position before, only instead of merely cursing, I slug Hannity.
Warren Terra
DrDave, you are being quite unfair. McPOW never voted against the GI Bill; he hasn’t voted in almost 6 months. He announced that he would have voted against it if he were in the business of casting Senate votes, and then took credit for it after it passed over Republican opposition.
Notorious P.A.T.
The number one page in the asshole playbook: blame people for suffering under problems you caused.
ChrisNBama
I watched the whole forum. Both McCain and Obama did well. I got the sense that there was an air of disapproval coming from the journo’s towards McCain. For example, he was pressed about American Exceptionalism, and whether or not that means he thinks American’s are better people than other countries people. I didn’t see that sort of cross examination of Obama, even after he said that America is the greatest country on Earth.
As I said though, both men came off as likable, intelligent, and motivated about National Service.
Brian J
Sometimes, life isn’t fair. Why couldn’t we have Rudy! as the Republican candidate? In addition to the professional scandals which are too numerous to list, there’s also the fact that his own daughter doesn’t talk to him. She was an Obama supporter, if her Facebook page could be believed. I’d love to see him get a question about that.
Notorious P.A.T.
Every day I like McCain even less. What a dickhead.
Noah
Yeah, I usually think that politicians’ kids are off limits. Maybe it was in bad taste, but the kid did beat up other folks on the golf team, and I think people’s kids usually take after them, so I think it reflects poorly on Giuliani.
And whenever I have a chance to talk about something reflecting poorly on Giuliani, I can’t resist.
Yeah, he’s out of the spotlight, but I am still seething with rage about how he exploited 9/11 for his own fame and fortune and used it to pad his resume. I don’t think I’ll ever get over that.
I never thought I could deeply and viscerally loathe a human being more than George W. Bush, but then Rudy Giuliani came out of the woodwork.
Yes, he’s gone for now, but I want to make sure he stays that way, and has no chance to come anywhere near the halls of power again. We must keep him away from the Governorship of New York, or whatever other office he seeks.
I don’t throw around the term “fascist” lightly, but Rudolph W. Giuliani is a true fascist in every sense of the word, and would have made George W. Bush’s administration look like a PG movie. Therefore, whenever I have a chance to ridicule Giuliani, I do it.
This truly dangerous man must never gain more power.
Sorry for the tirade.
HumboldtBlue
This is my comment over at rumproast.com ….
Narcissus
The MSNBC commentariat crew basically agreed that McCain was so high-minded, and if Obama had just agreed to townhall debates the whole campaign wouldn’t have gone so negative, which it seemingly did by itself without the McCain campaign making it that way.
Brian J
You almost get the sense that for all of his intellectual insecurity and laziness, for all of his stubbornness to admit a mistake, and for all of his general failure, he still had the best interests of the country at heart. That doesn’t mean he was above handing out favors to those around him, but instead that he wasn’t solely in it for himself.
On the other hand, Rudy! seems like the sort of guy who would sell his own mother for a chance to get himself into the spotlight. Not only did he exploit his “leadership” during 9/11 aftermath, but when he had the chance to learn something, like he did with the Iraq Study Group, for instance, he chose to get paid to give a speech. He embodies like the worst sort of craven opportunist.
Notorious P.A.T.
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/KellyRudy-%5BConverted%5D.jpg
The Onion has a hilarious editorial cartoonist )
Warren Terra
Noah, you shouldn’t apologize so much. After all, you certainly chose an excellent target; and you’re probably not wrong about the apple not falling too far from the tree. It’s mostly that hitting the family is always a gray area, and with the whole Palin Family kerfuffle, where a few pseudonymous commenters addressing her family somehow delegitimize any questions about her horrible record in public office, I’m likely overly sensitive to people talking about politicians’ families.
John S.
Obama really needs to shut the fuck about McCain being the Greatest American Hero. He called McCain’s service LEGENDARY. And two minutes later, MSNBC was obliged to scroll across their ticker:
Obama calls McCain’s service legendary.
Laura W
I was so anxious for this thread party to start that I started yakking about the service forum in the bottom of the previous thread. And I think I said a bad word since I am in comment moderation limbo over there. But the people were so nice and helpful over there! I feel better now. (+4)
I’d like to again thank Obama for the shout out to the volunteer firefighters of America.
Notorious P.A.T.
Not me. Someone who did care about the country would postpone (if not cancel) a vacation when handed a document entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Attack in United States”, or when seeing a hurricane laying waste to the gulf coast.
Davebo
Just waiting on Ike.
Odd really since my last cruise was on the Eisenhower. I still have the “I like Ike” button on one of my old ball caps.
I don’t like Ike no more.
Scrutinizer
@ HumboldtBlue—
Yep, you said it better than I did!
Brian J
I think it was Andrea Mitchell that said Obama’s campaign was working all night on some negative ads that would be working tomorrow. She made a point of mentioning that they would be hard hitting. Perhaps this was one final nod in his direction before they really start to put their feet to his throat, so it looks like he’s really not being too much of an asshole. (Not that I’d have a problem with that, of course.)
John S.
And I agree with others that the MSNBC commentariat tonight are dumber than a box of hammers.
There’s no difference between Obama and McCain on service?
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
Obama thinks more people should go out and work in their communities to bring about positive change and McCain thinks more people should go out and mock those people.
David Gregory is Paul Bunyan’s axe: A giant fucking tool.
Noah
David Gregory and most of the rest of the media is just salivating over a McCain win, because they think he will allow them unfettered access to the oval office, and then they’ll get to write a book about their time with their friend the President and get rich.
DrDave
Warren Terra: You are right, McCain didn’t vote against the GI Bill just as he hasn’t voted for or against anything for at least the past 6 months. But they should have asked him why, if he supported higher pay and better perks he opposed the Bill.
Notorious P.A.T.: You are also right. McCain has devolved into utter shamelessness. I can’t believe I supported him in 2000. But then, he seemed like a different guy back then…
DrDave
Warren Terra: You are right, McCain didn’t vote against the GI Bill just as he hasn’t voted for or against anything for at least the past 6 months. But they should have asked him why, if he supported higher pay and better perks he opposed the Bill.
Notorious P.A.T.: You are also right. McCain has devolved into utter shamelessness. I can’t believe I supported him in 2000. But then, he seemed like a different guy back then…
Martin
The hurricane wasn’t named after Eisenhower. It’s named after Ike, the adopted little brother of Kyle on South Park.
DrDave
And John: Has anyone told you that your server sucks lately? (since it just double posted me after kicking me off earlier)
I think you need to contact Gov. Bobby Jindal to see if he can exorcise your demons…
John O
What almost everyone said.
My take was that John McCain is going to go all “nice guy” centrist Maverick now, just as Obama goes on the attack. Lots of voters won’t decide until days or even minutes before they enter the booth.
Who knows how it will play? It makes political sense to me from McCain’s perspective to go “positive,” such as Schmidt will allow it, and Obama may get a backlash for going negative, depending on whether he can do it a defensible manner.
What’s weird to me is that this election is close. We’re going to know in about 7 weeks if the stoopid is terminal, though if one takes the long view, a McCain win could crystalize the end of the modern GOP. Too bad we’ll all be in the way.
Krista
And Ike’s Canadian, which means that hopefully Hurricane Ike will be polite and even-tempered, albeit slightly smug.
t jasper parnell
McCain’s Party’s love of community organizers who engage in service is well know. It would be churlish to point out the glaring contradiction between the Conventioneers’ conventional attack on community service and McCain’s love of service to cause greater than one’s self. Why it is almost as if Obama and Co plan on plastering the bastards on this very issue by lulling the bastards into a false sense of security concerning, you know, their hatred of community organizers while they love community organizers.
And for those who worry about lauding McCain. Assume, for a moment he did, given the ginned up controversy over lipstick bedecked pigs, what would the buzz be should Obama say, in open court, John McCain is batshit crazy?
Personally, and speaking only for myself, I wish Obama would come right out and say: Vote for me and get a minimum of 4 years of competent non-crazy governance. That, quite frankly, is change we can all believe in.
L. Ron Obama
Blame Canada?
Noah
Brian, amen on Giuliani. Warren, yeah, the family stuff is a gray area. When I make fun of a candidate’s family it’s usually just because I find the candidate so morally repugnant that I can’t resist.
Notorious P.A.T.
Great and mighty Odin, please let this be true.
S.G.E.W.
[drive-by post]
Tell me about it. I had to deal with him for 7 years as my damned mayor. I could tell you stories that would make your hair turn grey.
Let me put it this way: among low income people of color, the term “death squads” is still used in reference to his “clean streets” campaign. And we’re not talking metaphorically.
Also, re “Legendary” war hero:
“Legendary” = “Mythical” = “Historical” = “Old and Irrelevant”?
Notorious P.A.T.
I re-registered as an independent in 2000 and voted for McCain in the primary. But that was just to mess with Bush hehe.
Brian J
Yeah, really. Hey, maybe tomorrow they’ll announce $100 million in fund raising for August, they’ll eviscerate McCain in some ads, and Jennifer Love Hewitt will appear carrying new Apple laptop on my doorstep. Okay, so only the first part really makes sense, but still…
DrDave
I was a registered Republican in 2000 and voted for McCain even though the primary race was over by the time PA got to vote. Little did I know how much the joke was on us.
Ted
Yeah, I also miss the Best In Show duo of Matthews and Olbermann. At least it was entertaining. Gregory is just boring.
mannemalon
I wonder how sharply the ratings will be affected after replacing Olbermann with Gregory. To me, it’s clearly a boneheaded ass move.
Gregory running that show, with Mitchell, Buchanan and Matthews is damn near indistinguishable from CNN.
Easy to turn that shit off now at least.
harlana pepper
The McCain campaign has become a caricature of itself, it’s candidates, and the republican party as a whole. I feel like I’m watching performance art all the time.
AkaDad
If Obama would have just capitulated to McCain’s demands, none of the lies and smears would have been necessary.
He had it coming.
Laura W
HA! I love that movie. Never saw them that way. Now I will never not see them in that way.
Stuck in the Fun House
Yea, I heard that too, she says they’re going to be “personal”
attack ads on Mccain. I don’t know about you all, but I’ve put put my wingnut fecal deflector screens if case it’s true. They’ll be screeching and hollerin’ about those vicious mean liebruls, A lot jumping up and down and flinging shit. In other words fun.
JL
tomorrow. She made a point of mentioning that they would be hard hitting. Perhaps this was one final nod in his direction before they really start to put their feet to his throat, so it loworking oks like he’s really not being too much of an asshole. (Not that I’d have a problem with that, of course.)
HumboldtBlue
Also, one other thing we may be overlooking as this ever-increasing soap opera continues, the effect of Ron Paul.
He was contacted by Phil Gramm and asked to come out and openly endorse McCain and he emphatically declined to do so.
One of the ignored stories from the RNC hate-fest 12 days ago, other than the gross abuse of power by federal and local law enforcement, was the Paul counter-campaign which drew more than 12-thousand supporters.
Paul could definitely be a thorn in the side of Republicans come November, and I am hoping that turns out to be the case.
msw
McCain’s tone of the campaign excuse is the equivalent of a man saying he wouldn’t have raped a girl if she had agreed to have sex with him.
Brian J
You mean you find idiotic Republicans on television insisting that Palin has foreign policy experience because she’s dealt with Canada and Russia as surreal as I do?
Seriously man, watch the clip I posted above. It just shows what a train wreck Hannity is. It’d be even funnier if it weren’t so depressing.
Narcissus
I just watched that Palin clip, and all of her answers have this air of “Why is this Gibson nerd talking to me? Ew.”
AkaDad
It’s never too soon to make me laugh.
John S.
Somehow 12 disaffected Democrats make 1000 times more noise than 12,000 disaffected Republicans.
There’s a math equation in there.
DrDave
John Dickerson reported yesterday that the McCain campaign is ready for the Obama smear campaign:
All campaigns must change in order to handle the arrival of a vice-presidential candidate. To accommodate Sarah Palin, John McCain’s Straight Talk Express has now installed a fainting couch. It’s not for the vice-presidential candidate—she’s plenty tough—but for McCain aides who are rapidly perfecting the act of expiring on the cushions on her behalf at every sign of perceived sexism.
Heh.
Laura W
Mary,
Your comment was likeable enough.
tBone
“Look, baby, I didn’t WANT to hit you, but you just make me so mad with that smart mouth of yours.”
carsick
Man oh man, would I love Rachel Ray to be the head of my kids PTA…oh, wait…what?…Oh, excuse me, man oh man would I love for Rachel Palon to be the head of my kids PTA…Did I get that right?…No?…Oh Geez, Mam oh man would I love for Sarah Palin to be the head of my kids PTA.
Let’s just edit out the other stuff, okay?
Mary
So ANYWAY — Obama will be on SNL this week. They’re trying to get Tina Fey on this week, too. Gosh, I wonder what they want her to do?
Brian J
If John McCain is going to get reporters to run a mini campaign ad every time they mention the name of his bus as the Straight Talk Express, why doesn’t Obama follow suit and name his bus the John McCain is a Tool, and He Sucks Express?
IndyLib
Anybody watching the follow-up program on MSNBC with Rachel?
For some dammed reason it’s listed in my TV guide as “9/11: As it Happened”, but I got Rachel and Matthews discussing the forum and the campaign.
The Other Steve
Actually it’s a very clever by Obama.
Kevin
Elitist celebrity DemocRats, bah! They should be like John McCain and stick to Hard News broadcasts like The Daily Show!
Kevin
Yumm-o!
Just Some Fuckhead
Do tell..
charlotte
Watching it, John, and remembering being young in Philly in 1977. Feeling good. For a moment thought you were Atrios and had to do a thingie.
Can I scream Fuck Yeah? We never said that in the old days.
charlotte
Fuck yeah!!!
iluvsummr
When McCain came on, I thought he started off well, and he struck me as being as thoughtful as he possibly could. Next thing I knew, he and Obama were hugging. I guess I fell asleep through most of his presentation. Not Obama’s though; and the Columbia crowd was really rooting for him. I loved the way he handled the issue of Sarah Palin belittling his community organizing experience. The audience actually applauded his call for a return of the ROTC to campuses, which surprised me since many colleges/college students oppose this because of the military’s don’t ask don’t tell policy. I remember that being a huge issue when I was an undergrad. I still can’t believe I dozed off during McCain’s part. I guess I’m more biased than I realized.
Martin
Is the media entertaining questions about Obama’s patriotism any more?
Joshua Norton
They just used the term “lipstick on a pig” on an Ugly Betty rerun. They obviously started pre-hating Palin before anyone even knew who she was.
Start the screaming Republican Truth Squad. (There’s so many things wrong with that sentence that I’d need a PowerPoint presentation to point them all out.)
carsick
Deer in the headlights and no misspeaking but clear not knowing means…KaBoom!
The numbers may not reflect it for a couple days but the independents just said WTF!
PTA Palin just screwed the pooch. Sadly, she probably thinks she just need more time on camera and she can clean up the poop.
Goodbye POW. We thank you for your service but your job here is done now. Hoo-ah.
jake
John McPOW is Cohen the Barbarian.
(Just kidding Ghenghiz.)
Notorious P.A.T.
Mmmmtalk about nice apples. . .
oh really
Actually, I think this is something that shows that Obama has some fundamental misconceptions about the American people. One would think that his years in politics would have taught him that rational appeals seldom if ever succeed. His excessive (I say it is excessive because I don’t believe McCain did anything to warrant such lavish praise and because he has subsequently revealed what poor character he really has)is not going to appeal to the undecideds. They’re not going to say, gee, he says McCain’s OK so I think I’ll vote for Obama cuz he’s got a better health care plan. Instead they say, what a hipocrite! One minute he’s calling Palin a pig and McCain an old fish and the next he’s pretending he respects McCain. I’m going to vote for McCain cuz he’s a maverick and a straight talker who will fight for me.
The fundamental miscalculation that many Democrats have made this year is that while it’s true that most Americans got fed up with Bush, almost none of those people got any smarter or any better informed. Since they don’t think McCain is Bush, they are free to vote for him and expect a different outcome that Bush delivered.
oh really
PS Despite a life time ban on Charles Gibson, I went ahead and watched the Palin interview.
Holy shit, a VP who doesn’t know what the Bush Doctrine is.
She really, really is not ready.
I suppose one could argue that what she lacks in knowledge and experience, she compensates for with high school cheerleader quality enthusiasm and world class
prevaricationlying skills.PeterJ
Cause picking a cheerleader for president worked out great the last time?
And don’t get me started about the lying…
;)
YellowJournalism
Now I want to see a Christopher Guest movie based on reporters covering the presidential election. Oh, the awesomeness!