Alright, media types. Now he is just insulting your intelligence:
McCain issued this challenge in his defense:
I’ve been through this litany before, where I say, “ok, what specific area have I quote changed?” Nobody can name it. … I am the same person and I have the same principles.
I will start for you all- offshore drilling.
There, that took .8 seconds to come up with one. Here are six dozen more flip-flops.
This is is some low-hanging fruit for the media, easier even than Gary Hart’s challenge.
Joshau Norton
Say what???
How about his VP choice would be someone who would be able to take over from day one?
Is short term memory the first thing to go when you register “R”?.
I’m beginning to think so.
norbizness
Gary Hart would be equivalent if they had already published photographs of him in flagrante delicto on thirty separate occasions in national newspapers and on TV.
Jay Andrew Allen
In other words, he’s even lying about lying.
Man. What a track record.
Zifnab25
McCain has been a Republican for a long, long time. I think he’s just been showing signs of Presidentitus. Even Bush didn’t act as stupid performing as governor as he did performing as President.
Any executive or leadership skills that a candidate may have exhibited before running for office are slowly and methodically purged over the six to nine month period in which they compete for office.
Notorious P.A.T.
On a related tack, look at this new Obama campaign ad:
Link
Incertus
The big one was, of course, torture–didn’t like it, but then voted to legalize it. Don’t know why his media buddies haven’t pointed that out.
The Bush tax cuts are another, though that’s actually one I can give him some slack on, because things like tax policy are something where people can feel one way, see the results of something they opposed, and change their minds based on that. Of course, if that’s the reason McCain changed his mind, then I have no choice but to conclude that he hates everyone who makes less that $250K a year and wants them all fucked in the ear with a splintery wooden dildo, but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
myiq2xu
Six dozen flip-flops?
In a few years he’ll catch up to Obama.
Ecks
Awesome! And he’s stopped using the word “maverick” 8 times a commercial to undercut his own message. I was happy when he started attacking, and now it looks like he’s finally getting a bit better at it.
JL
The news media will now focus on whether or not Obama questioned McCain’s patriotism. That will be the 24/7 cycle for the next week cause everyone knows that McCain was a POW.
Litlebritdifrnt
Did anyone see the thingy over at Huffpo where McCain back in 2007 basically saying that being a mayor for a short time and being a governor for a short time was no qualification to be president? I would do a linky dinky but I am afraid of screwing it up and enraging the blog god. Is that on the list?
Just Some Fuckhead
McCainx2
KT
The POW thing is so old, it tried to jump the shark, fell in the pool and got devoured.
amorphous
Why do you want to kiss me, myiq?
demkat620
Jerry Falwell- Agent of Intolerance
SpotWeld
I’m starting to think that McCain has actually, in his own mind, given up and that he’s just being pushed along in all this by the momentum (and wignnuttery) of his own campaign.
It’s just so wierd watching him throw these incredibly checkable untruths out there.
It’s like he’s just not even trying anymore and the posturing and polticizing is some sort of muscle reflex.
Just Some Fuckhead
.. by Sarah Barracuda! W00t!
Hawspipe
For crissakes John, get back on your meds!
JL
I forgot that McCain does like talking about that time and never mentions that he was a POW. Can this count as one of McCain’s lies?
SpotWeld
On the the topic of flip-flops I would like to see a video that opens with that clip of McCain, followed by a montage of all this well documented flips played over “Never Going to Give you Up”
Notorious P.A.T.
Yes!!!
Never Gonna Give You Up
Incertus
I don’t. I think that in 2000, when he ran, he did so on a lark, and the worst thing that ever happened to him was that he won New Hampshire. Every political move he’s made since then has been calculated to get to this point. What are a few misleading ads to a guy who can smell ultimate victory now?
mapaghimagsik
I guess that makes this still topical?
Stuck in the Fun House
I think it was Moe Udall who said the only cure for this malady is Embalming Fluid.
Brian J
Please, tell me some legitimate, substantive areas where Obama has changed his mind for purely political purposes. Be specific; broad categories of public policies, such as taxes or the environment, won’t do.
Just Some Fuckhead
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
mapaghimagsik
Brian: Obama flipped on FISA. Shame that he did, and its one.
So fine, but I can name at least eight similar flips by McCain. Not to mention him pulling strings to make sure Cindy could keep that designer monkey on her back.
mapaghimagsik
Brian: Obama flipped on FISA. Shame that he did, and its one.
So fine, but I can name at least eight similar flips by McCain. Not to mention him pulling strings to make sure Cindy could keep that designer monkey on her back.
Hey, and in all due respect to Cindy, if I was married to that wrinkled sack of shit, I’d have to be stoned all the time too.
Brian J
In most ways, I’d agree with you. But please, has he done or said anything to indicate that his decision to change was motivated by anything other than a desire to win the nomination? Has he described the differing underlying economic conditions between now and then that would justify a switch? Maybe he has, but I haven’t seen anything other than some lame Republican talking about about taxes that we’ve seen countless times before.
John S.
Congratulations to mapaghimagsik for adding something substantive in response.
As for the ratfucker, all he’s good for is pithy rejoinders. We’ve never seen an honest argument out of him, and I doubt he will start now.
Brian J
What the hell?
mapaghimagsik
Hmm I *thought* I added the link to this still being topical.
Or am I doing links wrong…
SpotWeld
*sigh* Perhaps you’re right… I have the mostly a-political instinct to assume that people are by default non-@ssholes.
If the political sesson of 2008 doesn’t cure me of that belief, then I guess nothing will.
w vincentz
McCain was once opposed to oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. His choice of VP candidate Palin will prove otherwise.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/An-Alaska-Native-speaks-ou-by-Evon-Peter-080910-216.html
Incertus
Of course not. That’s why I pointed out that if he had changed his mind because he thought the tax cuts had helped the economy, then he also thought that anyone making less than $250K a year deserves to get ass-fucked by a rabid CEO.
rawshark
McCain nearly changed parties. What’s a policy flip-flop compared to something like that?
Brian J
Not that I like that Obama didn’t filibuster the matter, but would definitely categorize this as a flip-flop, rather than a compromise? The focus was definitely on his opposition to telecom immunity and reneging on his promise to filibuster, but wasn’t the bill about more? Again, I’m not saying that he acted in a good way on this issue, I just don’t remember the issue that well. Perhaps it was about immunity and little else, and I’m not sure.
Like others have said, this is a decent point, but still, the idea that he’s gone back and forth in a number of high profile ways is pretty ridiculous. For better or worse, he seems to be pretty consistent, as this article describes.
Brian J
I know. I was agreeing with you, and being verbose in the process. Sometimes, sadly, I write or talk aloud to myself as if I was having an argument with someone on television.
mapaghimagsik
Brian: Yelling at the screen is our little learned behavior.
Tattoosydney
Have just woken up here in Sydney. I love reading Sullivan, as much for when he says something that pisses me off, as for when he says exactly what I am thinking.
After the discussions I read yesterday on here, this struck me as a very perceptive comment by one of his readers.
Here at Balloon-Juice, the wingnuts drop in, spout McCain lies and bullshit. They are immediately mocked and/or cogently rebutted, but the discussion (including mine) often focusses entirely on why Governor Palin is a lying, manipulative pit bull, or why McCain is a lying, manipulative (and forgetful) pig in drag.
The discussion of Obama and why he can make a difference for the better of all Americans (and the rest of the world as well) slips into the background.
I can’t promise not to feed the trolls. They need to be mocked and called on their lies. I don’t think ignoring them entirely is the answer.
However, perhaps if mockery is always accompanied by an argument why Obama and Biden are the better candidates, rather than just denigrating Grimace and Governor Love, the fightback against the lies might work better?
Michael +7 Last night (urgh)
dslak
Tattooosydney, that phenomenon is true of blogs in general. Conservative blogs spend a lot of time manufacturing outrage, even though they do probably devote more time to praising their preferred candidate.
To be honest, though, they’re often pretty shameless in how they’re willing to push their candidate and ignore his or her flaws (or even trumpet those flaws as virtues!). The percentage of liberal blogs willing to go that far is probably much smaller.
Litlebritdifrnt
Re: Rick Astley – funny story. When the whole Rick Astley phenom began I was in Hong Kong serving with the Navy. BFBS local radio station broadcast his songs and we all enjoyed them. I can remember vividly the day me and all the other Jenny Wrens were in the TV room watching something (might have been a Hong Kong Version of Top of the Pops or something) and we all went WTF! Rick Astley is WHITE? His voice, for some strange reason gave us the impression that he was black. It was really bizarre.
Tsulagi
Not going to rehash this one. It was a flip-flop, and any perceived benefit forecasted to accrue from the electorate in exchange for that gutless capitulation flopped. Just my unbiased opinion. Telcos and Bush were happy though.
w vincentz
McCain flip-flops…
http://www.bi30.org/wordpress/flipflopper.htm
Count ’em up yourself.
Tattoosydney
When your candidate is a good one, you don’t need to lie. Obama has faults, no matter what your political position is, but I think he is a good man, who believes in what he says, and decides his actions on the basis of a strong moral code and good information.
When he has a flaw, it deserves to be discussed – otherwise, I agree, we turn into the Rethugs and subscribe to “My Candidate – right or wrong” and end up justifying lies about bridges and earmarks and wars and veterans care.
But that shouldn’t stop us talking about how good a candidate he is. When the wingnuts suck all the air out of the conversation and inject Palin gas, we’re not helping if we breathe deep and spew bile back at them, without any argument why our candidate is better.
(Sorry for that disturbing image. Palin gas. Ewww.)
Brian J
Well, I don’t yell nearly as much as I talk as if I am Russell Crowe playing John Nash. I’m only going to worry when I expect a response, however.
Alright.
nickm
I heard McLiar on the View quoting the Bible, claiming to pray daily and using code like ‘servant.’ does that count as a flip flop?
dslak
This conversation reminds me of a quote by Robert Frost: “A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.”
Tattoosydney
Misqeryx2 (of course) is the exception who is to be mocked without pity. No substantive discussions for you, Mikey.
dslak
Yeah, nickm, his reply to the question about the seperation of church and state on “The View” is definitely a change from the “agents of intolerence” McCain Model 2000.
He said: “I think everybody, obviously, is entitled to their individual faiths and beliefs, including not believing in anything. But I pray every day.”
Why the ‘but’ prefacing the last line? Is he saying that he prays not to think that anymore? Probably, he means that, even though he supports religious freedom, that doesn’t mean he’s not religious. But nobody other than the religious fringe of the GOP would assume that those two would be exclusive, anyway.
Although he continues to shame himself with his pandering, I’m just glad he’s chosen to pander to the one group who was going to vote for him – although less enthusiastically before Palin – anyway. That leaves the idiots sanctified by the press as “independents” ripe for the picking by Obama.
jaime
The problem with all this teeth gnashing is…
They. Don’t. Care.
It doesn’t matter what you say.
They. Don’t. Care.
45% of this electorate is locked in for PALIN/mccain.
It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t know foreign policy, or is a lying backwoods machiavelliette.
They. Don’t. Care.
JPK
I appreciate Sully’s patience/steel riffing today, and his reader’s POV. But I think a lot of the focus on McCain by the liberal blogs has been a deliberate push to counter the McCain campaign’s obvious bid to make the election a referendum on Obama. A lot of us think it needs to be a referendum on McCain, and more broadly the Republicans. And it’s exasperating how mainsream media is once again failing us simply by refusing to call facts facts, and lies lies.
John O
Email to Jonah, subject line, “Man.”
You give patronage a bad name.
McCain has the money to TALK into his computer, with the highest available technology.
Next thing you’ll do is tell us all how qualified Palin is.
Shame? A lost emotion among doctrinaire conservatives.
Jamison
Steve Benen has been keeping a list over at The Carpetbagger Report. I’m sure some of them are marginal at best, but he’s up to 76.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops