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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / Obama’s Economic Message

Obama’s Economic Message

by John Cole|  September 16, 20084:45 pm| 63 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, Did You Know John McCain Was A POW?

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This seems relevant to the current debate:

“On the morning of October 30, 1929, President Herbert Hoover awoke the day after the biggest one-day stock market crash in American history, surveyed the state of the U.S. economy and declared, “The fundamental business of the country, that is production and distribution of commodities, is on a sound and prosperous basis,” said Reid, quoting Hoover.

Not sure how close the events of the last few days relate to the Great Depression, especially since the markets seem to have bounced back a little today and I doubt that with all the protections in place it will get to that, but then again, Greenspan, the guy probably most responsible for this mess, is saying this is a once a century event. Regardless, I think this speech today by Obama was pretty damned solid:

You know, there are a lot of things about which I simply do not agree with Obama. But hot damn, it sure is nice listening to someone speak in full sentences, using complete and often complex thoughts and weaving those thoughts into broad and overarching themes. Compared to the stammering and stuttering gibberish from Bush the past eight years, and the staccato, machine-gun like bursts of incoherent aggression from McCain, and Obama is like a cool breeze on a hot summer day.

At any rate, this was just a great speech, and the guy just exudes comepetence. At about 5:15 in, Obama describes exactly why a ton of people like me are going to vote for a Democrat for President for the first time (transcript here):

If you want to understand the difference between how Senator McCain and I would govern as President, you can start by taking a look at how we’ve responded to this crisis. Because Senator McCain’s approach was the same as the Bush Administration’s: support ideological policies that made the crisis more likely; do nothing as the crisis hits; and then scramble as the whole thing collapses. My approach has been to try to prevent this turmoil.

If that does not describe the last eight years in a nutshell, from the fateful August 6th memo on, I do not know what does. Obama’s indictment is scathing, particularly in relationship to the current mess:

In February of 2006, I introduced legislation to stop mortgage transactions that promoted fraud, risk or abuse. A year later, before the crisis hit, I warned Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke about the risks of mounting foreclosures and urged them to bring together all the stakeholders to find solutions to the subprime mortgage meltdown. Senator McCain did nothing.

Last September, I stood up at NASDAQ and said it’s time to realize that we are in this together – that there is no dividing line between Wall Street and Main Street – and warned of a growing loss of trust in our capital markets. Months later, Senator McCain told a newspaper that he’d love to give them a solution to the mortgage crisis, “but” – he said – “I don’t know one.”

In January, I outlined a plan to help revive our faltering economy, which formed the basis for a bipartisan stimulus package that passed the Congress. Senator McCain used the crisis as an excuse to push a so-called stimulus plan that offered another huge and permanent corporate tax cut, including $4 billion for the big oil companies, but no immediate help for workers.

This March, in the wake of the Bear Stearns bailout, I called for a new, 21st century regulatory framework to restore accountability, transparency, and trust in our financial markets. Just a few weeks earlier, Senator McCain made it clear where he stands: “I’m always for less regulation,” he said, and referred to himself as “fundamentally a deregulator.”

This is what happens when you confuse the free market with a free license to let special interests take whatever they can get, however they can get it. This is what happens when you see seven years of incomes falling for the average worker while Wall Street is booming, and declare – as Senator McCain did earlier this year – that we’ve made great progress economically under George Bush. That is how you can reach the conclusion – as late as yesterday – that the fundamentals of the economy are strong.

Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to make sure this got some attention.

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63Comments

  1. 1.

    Gus

    September 16, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Not sure how close the events of the last few days relate to the Great Depression

    Nor am I, but I do know that “the production and distribution of commodities” is no longer the basis for our economy, unless you consider paper and virtual money a commodity.

  2. 2.

    Gus

    September 16, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Oh, and this made my day. Karma’s a bitch, dude.

  3. 3.

    demkat620

    September 16, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    I have a friend who works for AIG, he could lose everything if he loses his job. Was a McCain voter, now he is rethinking that.

  4. 4.

    Gus

    September 16, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    I promise to read all the blog posts before commenting again. Sorry about that.

  5. 5.

    Joshau Norton

    September 16, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    “the production and distribution of commodities” is no longer the basis for our economy,

    Hit the nail on the head. Most of the current jobs consist of typing info into computers. That can only produce so many jobs. Then there’s flipping burgers/selling shit style service industry jobs. Manufacturing has been out-sourced for the majority of the country. China has pretty much pwned our asses, via Walmart.

  6. 6.

    TR

    September 16, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Hell of a speech.

    Between the media calling out McCain and Palin for their bald-faced lies and the new attention to economic issues, it feels like the campaign just took a serious turn. Interesting to see what the polls look like in a week.

  7. 7.

    Svensker

    September 16, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Crap, Obama sounds all serious and thoughtful. COMPLETE sentences?!! Totally elitist. Dude, where’s the soundbite?

    It’s hard to do neener neener with thoughtful complete sentences. KWIM?

  8. 8.

    cyntax

    September 16, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    China has pretty much pwned our asses, via Walmart.

    I see it as W*Mart pwning us to China. After all Walmart’s the one with the leverage over their suppliers (what used to be our manufacturing sector).

  9. 9.

    Teak111

    September 16, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    BINGO! John wins.

    My argument to my GOP neighbor is exactly that. Competence. Funny, I will take mere competence over talent at this point (although clearly BHO is talented). The GOP can win elections but can not govern because it is now a fully ideological party with competence a far second (and the Palin choice confirms this for McCain).

    Show me something different, GOP. Show me you can run something with mere consistence. I like some of your policies. But you people can not run things for shit. I loose money every time. Time to give the other side a try.

  10. 10.

    ThymeZone

    September 16, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    John, you’ve basically outlined why we picked Obama as our favorite Dem candidate and support him all the way.

    I don’t know if the contrast between two candidates could be greater than the one between Obama and McCain. McCain is exactly why we hate politicians and politics. Obama is …. a real person. To me it’s about as simple as that.

  11. 11.

    AkaDad

    September 16, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Trying to prevent disasters before they happen, shows a clear lack of experience that the country needs right now.

  12. 12.

    dm

    September 16, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Such restraint. All that talk about the S&L deregulation of the 80s and no mention of Charles Keating.

  13. 13.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    A summary, for those who can’t watch (almost-live commenting – I have too much free time on my hands, eh?):

    [sorry if this echoes previous commenters – but I watched th’ whole speech before posting, neener neener]

    Ties the current crisis to the trickle-down philosophy, Bush, and McCain. Compares McCain’s reaction (scrambling around after the fact, “passing the buck” by calling for a commission) and his approach (change the underlying problems). Gives a li’l history lesson (quotes John “I’m always against regulation” McCain). Gives a li’l financial market lesson (it’s all the special interests’ fault, apparently). Brings up the S&L scandal – but doesn’t mention the Keating 5. Pounds on Phil “Mental Recession” Graham. Pounds on McCain, Iraq, the Bush tax cuts . . . and China? McCain’s pro-regulation stance cannot be trusted because of his decades of “scorn” for oversight. Lobbyists. Special interests again. How will we fix everything? Through Obama’s leadership, and a laundry list of proposed reforms and government programs (Nice and wonky! Too much to list here and, honestly, not my area of expertise: looking forward to others’ analyses). Gets in a dig about McCain’s multiple homes (crowd goes nuts). Lists six principles of his financial policy (this may wind up being the “Six Principles” speech). Shows off bi-partisan cred by delineating his anti-corruption resume. Another anti-special interests rallying cry. Digs at McCain’s recent plagarization of Obama’s “Change” theme. Ends with his stump speech “what change means” laundry list (slightly modified for Colorado). Good stuff.

    Some new crowd-pleasing lines:

    . . . pain that has now ‘trickled up’ (describing the various hardships facing American families).

    . . . we must guide the market’s ‘invisible hand’ with a higher principle: that America prospers when all Americans prosper.

    . . . The American market does not stand still, and neither should the rules that govern it.

    . . . [the Republican financial ideology is] an ideology that intentionally breeds incompetence in Washington and irresponsibility on Wall Street.

    . . . (referencing McCain’s proposed “9/11 Commission”) This isn’t 9/11: we know how we got here!

    And gives a nice shout out to Sen. Salazar of Colorado to boot.

    (Also: I quite like how Barack says “liquidity.”)

  14. 14.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    September 16, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    John, if you ain’t with the Republicans in regards to their basic governing philosophy, less regulation and solving everything with the power of the “free market”, and you ain’t a so-con, it might be time to evaluate your core principles. Republicans ain’t selling anything else and the mess we got now is the realization of thirty years of Republican philosophy.

  15. 15.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Another interesting point: this is a remarkably different speech than the one he gave in Cross Orchards, Co today (h/t Atrios).

    The Golden, CO speech was much more focused on the current financial situation (and the underlying economic failure based on the Republican economic philosophy). The one in Cross Orchards was much more of a barn burner.

    [partially cross-posted]

    Highlights from Cross Orchards:

    This isn’t about Britney or Paris; this isn’t about pigs or lipstick: this is about you.

    John McCain’s ads are sounding pretty familiar. He’s even started using some of my lines! (looks at “Change” banner behind him)

    . . . if (McCain) thinks (that his lobbyists mean “change”), well I’ve got a bridge to sell you up in Alaska.

    . . . (John McCain is going to) tax your benefits for the first time in American history.

    . . . (regarding McCain’s “fundamentals of economy are strong” quote) what’s more fundamental than knowing you’ll have a roof over your head at the end of the day?

    Otherwise, it’s his standard stump speech, including an exhaustive laundry list of policies and promises. Detailed, substantive, and (in my opinion) totally awesome. Media, please compare with McCain’s virtually policy-free stump speeches. Please. Pretty please.

    Obama also brings up his rather impressive (if short) record on anti-lobbying legislation (why oh why oh why won’t anyone cover that?!) and, important in rural Colorado, mentions water rights and agribusiness.

    And, finally, a jab I hadn’t seen yet:

    . . . (John McCain’s) quarter century of experience in the halls of power . . . .

    Smooth.

    . . . How awesome is it that I can still get this excited over his speeches? C’mon, two new great speeches in the same day!

  16. 16.

    Colonel Danite

    September 16, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Given the polls of the last week or so, I’ve lost considerable faith in my countrymen. In the next few days we’ll see the GOP and their surrogates in the media and blogosphere ridicule Obama’s thoughtful proposals and celebrate McCain’s pablum. We’ll see how the American electorate responds.

  17. 17.

    Bubblegum Tate

    September 16, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    We’ll see how the American electorate responds.

    By turning up the volume on Ow, My Balls!

  18. 18.

    Jake

    September 16, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    I was SO glad to see Obama slamming McCain on his 9/11 commission BS. McSame was peddling that crap all over the morning shows today. Talk about a lack of imagination.

    This morning instead of offering up concrete ideas to solve the problems Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book – you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem. But here’s the thing – this isn’t 9/11. We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out. I’ll provide it, John McCain won’t, and that’s the choice for Americans in this election.

    CRUSHED.

    The whole speech was on point. I kind of like this Obama guy. He seems to know how to kick ass.

  19. 19.

    Emma Anne

    September 16, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    John, what do you disagree with Obama on?

  20. 20.

    t jasper parnell

    September 16, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    John, what do you disagree with Obama on?

    The socia er, liberalism.

  21. 21.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    . . . what do you disagree with Obama on?

    I, myself, would like to see less China-bashing, thank you very much. No need to demonize a whole nation just to make a point about import/export policy.

    Also: farm subsidies, “clean coal,” civil unions but not marriage, and the F.I.S.A. bill.

    Pretty small list, now that I think about it. What else?

  22. 22.

    John Cole

    September 16, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Adding to SGEW’s list, the death penalty and windfall profits taxes.

  23. 23.

    Chuck Butcher

    September 16, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    I don’t want to sound like a prophet of doom, but I’m unhappy with where things stand and our prospects of getting through OK. I don’t think it would take an abundance of stupidity to tip us over the edge.

    I was a voice of moderation of fear in regard to the housing bubble, but when the credit market started looking bad all bets were off.

  24. 24.

    cyntax

    September 16, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    So where on the stages of grief do back-handed compliments fall?

    [from Talkleft]

    I got the chance to watch Obama’s speech on the economy in Golden, Colorado (on TV of course.) Great speech. Great delivery. As close to being like Bill Clinton on the economy as I have seen him. The Barack Obama I saw today will win this election easily.
    -Big Tent Democrat

  25. 25.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    Ooo, good ones Mr. Cole. I completely forgot about the death penalty (tho’ I don’t really mind the windfall proft tax, even if it doesn’t make much sense).

    Of course, good luck finding any successful national politician who opposes the death penalty. Or marriage equality. Or outright secularism. Sigh.

    Oh yeah, the Jebus-Juice thing. I wouldn’t mind if Sen. Obama dropped that whole schtick, but I understand how he needs it politically. (1/2 snark)

  26. 26.

    PeterJ

    September 16, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Of course, good luck finding any successful national politician who opposes the death penalty.

    John Kerry. Although he’s for it for post 9-11 terrorists.

  27. 27.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    John Kerry.

    Good point, but in my defense I did say “any successful national politician.”

  28. 28.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Hmmm. Underlining no workee. Make that “any successful national politician.”

  29. 29.

    PeterJ

    September 16, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Good point, but in my defense I did say “any successful national politician.”

    Ohio? 2004?

  30. 30.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    Ohio? 2004?

    Oh, I’m not arguing that George W. Bush is the legitimate president, but you must agree that Sen. John Kerry was not, technically speaking, successful.

    Ok, I’m sad now.

  31. 31.

    Bob In Pacifica

    September 16, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    It’s my understanding that Obama helped William Ayers build an economy bomb in the basement of a New York townhouse back in the late sixties.

    It had an exceptionally long fuse.

  32. 32.

    Bubblegum Tate

    September 16, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    It’s my understanding that Obama helped William Ayers build an economy bomb in the basement of a New York townhouse back in the late sixties.

    And Jeremiah Wright gave some sort of Muslim prayer-thingie to bless the bomb.

  33. 33.

    PeterJ

    September 16, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Oh, I’m not arguing that George W. Bush is the legitimate president, but you must agree that Sen. John Kerry was not, technically speaking, successful.

    Ok, I’m sad now.

    I agree on that. :) But I’m not sure if his opposition, total or not, had any major impact on the election. Can’t even remember if it was an issue in the election.

    The last major candidate to oppose it before Kerry was Dukakis, and back then, it was an issue.

    Also, I agree on your list of disagreements. And on John Cole’s additions too, with an reservation about the wind fall taxes…

  34. 34.

    jcricket

    September 16, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    By turning up the volume on Ow, My Balls!

    This is the kind of stuff that I chuckle at, but scares me for Obama’s prospects. It’s not like I ever expected any Democrat to get 100, 90 or even 70% of the vote. But the fact that McCain is ahead at all makes me weep for America.

    There are 8 zillion (literally, I counted them) things right about Obama, and 8 cajillion (again, counted by hand) things wrong with McCain, Palin and the GOP. And that 45-50% of America thinks, “gee, I dunno, the GOP’s ideas/message/good looks sound good to me, I’ll vote for them” is simply mind-boggling.

    How many decades of proof do we need that the GOP is full of shit? In fact, I’ve decided the American public doesn’t care about the truth, or having a good economy. They just vote their hatred of liberals, gays, Jews, immigrants, uppity-folk, people who went to college, etc. Fucking fuckers.

  35. 35.

    ThymeZone

    September 16, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    But the fact that McCain is ahead at all makes me weep for America.

    Nut up, man. The polls are mostly dysfunctional, McCain is not “ahead.” The poll that counts is taken in 7 weeks.

    You are just now figuring out that a huge number of Americans will vote for nonsense and against their true interests? One would have thought that would be figured out a long time ago.

    Go register some voters, and stop whining.

  36. 36.

    Jess

    September 16, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    but you must agree that Sen. John Kerry was not, technically speaking, successful.

    Not to pick nits, but Kerry IS a successful politician and continues to do excellent work in the senate–he just didn’t win the presidential election (or, possibly, failed to enforce his victory). Having recently moved to Massachusetts, I’ve come to have a lot of respect for him, despite the lousy campaign he ran in 2004.

    I think a part of the problem with our attitude towards politics is that we see people only in terms of what they’ve won or lost, and overlook the actual work they’ve done. We’re buying into the GOP’s model of winning elections and failing to govern. Being a politician is a job, not a sport.

  37. 37.

    Georgia Pig

    September 16, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Exactly the point. You don’t have to agree with him on everything, you just have to realize that he’s a hell of a lot more talented and competent, a “five-tool player” as they say in the bigs. McCain is spot reliever with a blown-out rotator cuff and Palin is like that midget Bill Veeck trotted out for the St. Louis Browns.

  38. 38.

    SGEW

    September 16, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Kerry IS a successful politician and continues to do excellent work in the senate.

    No, no, you’re absolutely right. I was just trying to be kinda snarky (and cover up the fact that I totally forgot that Kerry was against the death penalty by nit-picking).

    I’m honestly amazed that Sen. Kerry did so well against an incumbent war-time president, and acknowledge that he is both a successful politician and decent statesperson. He’s still grade A in my book (even if his face does droop with joy sometimes).

  39. 39.

    forty2

    September 16, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Do not let it be forgotten in all of this mess that Phil “whiners” Gramm slipped an amendment into an unrelated bill in 2000 essentially creating the market for the CDSs that killed Lehman and led to tonight’s $85bn bailout of “too intertwined to fail” AIG.

    cite: http://is.gd/2FON

    Oh and Phil’s wife was on the board of ENRON.

  40. 40.

    RCH

    September 16, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Democrats still have no economic ideology compared to Republicans, which is why they can’t make headway in the current economic problems. They may be economically responsible, want to balance the budget, and regulate the economy more but these are good Republican policies not Democratic ones. In other words they are trying to be elected as good Republicans, while painting McCain as a bad Republican. Since all the narrative is about Republican economic policies and the Democrats concede all their ideology is no good economically, the Republicans win.
    The Democrats have forgotten that socialist policies don’t really hurt an economy at all, they don’t in Europe. The worst they do is increase unemployment marginally, tax the rich more, and perhaps depress economic growth marginally. In return they enrich the lower and middle classes enormously, who are supposed to be their base. In the past they didn’t hurt the American economy either. So they have nothing to be ashamed of in promoting an alternative economic vision to the Republicans, instead of just back seat driving.

  41. 41.

    JasonF

    September 16, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    Anybody who is worried about the current poll numbers that favor Senator McCain should check out this link.

  42. 42.

    Marshall

    September 16, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    Palin is like that midget Bill Veeck trotted out for the St. Louis Browns.

    I spewed my iced tea over that one.

  43. 43.

    blogreeder

    September 16, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Obama is a great orator. No denying that.

    This is what happens when you see seven years of incomes falling for the average worker

    This is a lie. Look at this.

    Real median household income in the United States climbed 1.3 percent between 2006 and 2007, reaching $50,233, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. This is the third annual increase in real median household income.

    Who are these average workers that don’t live in the median household?

  44. 44.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    September 16, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    In fact, I’ve decided the American public doesn’t care about the truth, or having a good economy. They just vote their hatred of liberals, gays, Jews, immigrants, uppity-folk, people who went to college, etc. Fucking fuckers.

    If you haven’t already bought yourself a copy of Nixonland, keep the money. You just summarized the main points of the book. The rest is just details for people interested in US political history.

  45. 45.

    Maggie

    September 16, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    But Tweety moaned and groaned about how that speech lacks PASSION. No tingles up his leg and what not. And so it’s all fail.

    What scares me to death is that Tweety is right. God I don’t want to live in a country that thinks McCain has anything to offer us by way of leadership.

    Slaps self. Tracking polls all shift to Obama today. So I’ll keep on hoping.

  46. 46.

    PaminBB

    September 16, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    “Real median household income in the United States climbed 1.3 percent between 2006 and 2007, reaching $50,233, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. This is the third annual increase in real median household income.”

    Blogreader is apparently an inumerate moron who does not understand that these numbers must be adjusted for inflation. S/he also seems to not understand the difference between median and mean (average).

    And John, what’s up with the pix of Glenn, Michelle and Charles on the front page? You really want to be associated with these people?

  47. 47.

    blogreeder

    September 16, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    Blogreader is apparently an inumerate moron who does not understand that these numbers must be adjusted for inflation. S/he also seems to not understand the difference between median and mean (average).

    That’s why average is such a rotten word. Who is he talking about? Obama’s intelligent enough to use “adjusted for inflation” if he needs to. But that’s not what he said.
    PaminBB, did your income fall for seven years? I know mine didn’t.

  48. 48.

    Barbar

    September 17, 2008 at 12:00 am

    Real median household incomes were lower in 2007 than they were seven years previously, blogreeder.

  49. 49.

    blogreeder

    September 17, 2008 at 12:36 am

    Real median household incomes were lower in 2007 than they were seven years previously, blogreeder.

    If you look at the graph in Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007, it’s more flat because of the Clinton recession in 2000. Obama’s quote is still a lie because

    Of households in the lowest income quintile in 2001, 28.6 percent were
    in a higher quintile in 2003; of those originally in the highest income
    quintile, 32.1 percent were in a lower quintile 2 years later.

    This comes from a 2 year study. The ones that went down are people you don’t care about. The highest quintile or Rich people.

  50. 50.

    Beej

    September 17, 2008 at 12:59 am

    Hey, jcricket, I’d be willing to bet you that a sizeable proportion of the electorate have no real idea of which candidate espouses which policies. They just saw a commercial or two, believed every word, and now are going to vote based on that and what their friends and family (who saw the same 2 commercials) are going to do. This is the real shame of the country, that too few people really give enough of a damn about who is running the country to actually take a half-hour and study the candidate’s stands on the issues.

  51. 51.

    Delia

    September 17, 2008 at 1:00 am

    If you look at the graph in Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007, it’s more flat because of the Clinton recession in 2000.

    Oh, how precious. The Clinton recession. Do you have any bridges for sale as well? Not that it matters. I’m toodling off to bed, so you can just write messages to convince yourself all night. I notice little blogreeder always appears rather late in the evening. His mom must get off the computer and leave it to him and the cheetos around this time.

  52. 52.

    blogreeder

    September 17, 2008 at 1:05 am

    I notice little blogreeder always appears rather late in the evening. His mom must get off the computer and leave it to him and the cheetos around this time.

    Thanks, you’ve noticed I lost weight. Did you ever stop to consider that I comment so late because I’m running the country the rest of the day?

  53. 53.

    Barbar

    September 17, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Nonsense, blogreeder.

    1) Using 2000 as a benchmark should help the Republicans, because of the recession that depressed incomes that year. Comparing to 1998 or 1999 would make 2007 look even worse.

    2) Because real median household incomes were lower in 2007 than in 2000, Obama’s statement is not a lie. In fact, it is the truth.

    3) The fact that only 70 percent of households in the top or bottom quintiles stay there over 2 years doesn’t make Obama’s statement a lie either. As someone as intelligent as yourself surely understands, what happens in the top or bottom quintiles doesn’t impact the median. These people who move out of the quintiles aren’t “average workers” by definition.

    4) In a good economy, real incomes should be going up up up across the board. Look at the 1980s and 1990s in that graph. In the 2000s, we’ve been slightly down. We’re not exactly entering a boom part of the cycle either. This means FAIL.

  54. 54.

    blogreeder

    September 17, 2008 at 1:16 am

    The fact that only 70 percent of households in the top or bottom quintiles stay there over 2 years doesn’t make Obama’s statement a lie either. As someone as intelligent as yourself surely understands, what happens in the top or bottom quintiles doesn’t impact the median. These people who move out of the quintiles aren’t “average workers” by definition.

    I used that excerpt because it showed mobility. Does it mention the other quintiles? I don’t know, it’s long report and it’s late. I’ve seen other remarks on studies that actually showed more mobility in the other quintiles. I still stand by my statement that what Obama said is a lie because there is no “average” worker. There’s a median worker.

  55. 55.

    TenguPhule

    September 17, 2008 at 1:23 am

    This comes from a 2 year study.

    Funny that, and here we are in 2008 and we are all worse off then before Bush betrayed America.

    My gross income has gone up.

    My net spending power…has dropped.

    I have seen food inflation running 30-60% in the last two years. I have seen energy inflation of 100%. Transportation of goods has 45% energy surcharges added.

    I could make 10-12% return on investments and I’d barely be breaking even.

    I remember when the Euro was a $.77 joke.

    So take your MCcain sucking ass and shove it.

  56. 56.

    Dylan

    September 17, 2008 at 1:42 am

    blogreeder:

    Analysis here:

    The figures are inflation-adjusted, and based on working-age households (that is, housholds where occupants are under 65 years old.) The link explains.

    If you include retirees in the calculations, incomes still drop, but not by as much.

  57. 57.

    blogreeder

    September 17, 2008 at 1:56 am

    Dylan, thanks for the link. Now, that I think about it; It might have been bad to use the median household income in my argument. There is no way that is the same people between 2001 and 2008.

    My gross income has gone up.

    My net spending power…has dropped.

    I have seen food inflation running 30-60% in the last two years. I have seen energy inflation of 100%. Transportation of goods has 45% energy surcharges added

    TenguPhule, Is this over 2 years? What about 7?

  58. 58.

    Muddy

    September 17, 2008 at 5:23 am

    Median, Mode and Mean are all different types of average. Average is an ambiguous word. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

    It makes most sense to use Median in this context, as the arithmetic mean will be completely distorted by the top wage earners — it’s a skewed distribution.

  59. 59.

    Barbar

    September 17, 2008 at 9:59 am

    If there’s mobility, then for every person who moves up, there’s a person who moves down. Since the median has gone down, this is a negative picture overall. FAIL.

  60. 60.

    eyelessgame

    September 17, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    To give blogreeder the tiny shred to which he is due, it’s not necessarily the case that for every person who moves up there must be a person who moves down — people tend to move up relative to the median throughout their lives, end up higher than they started, and then vanish from the stats (by vanishing from the planet) as new people come in closer to the bottom. Most people’s fortunes go up relative to the median in the course of their careers.

    Still. It is McCainworthy disingenuousness to pretend that this makes the statistic somehow invalid, just because the 30-year-old in 2000 might be doing better as a 38-year-old in 2008. Adjust for inflation first, and then compare the 2000-2008 movement in the median to the 1992-2000 change in the median. Which sort of administration does a better job of managing things such that the median goes up?

    Oh, and yes, one could always preface every single statistic with “adjusted for inflation”. Or you can trust that everyone knows that every honest comparison over time is adjusted for inflation, or it’s meaningless.

  61. 61.

    CaptChuck

    September 26, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Comrade…..
    Are you a communist? It’s no surprise you would rather hear eloquent speaking than words that are true and factual…..better to eat sizzle than steak, eh??

  62. 62.

    CaptChuck

    September 26, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Fuun thing…and since everyone wants to quote statistics…
    What was the un-employment rate before the Democrats took over the senate?? And what is it today?
    What was the cost of gas on the day that the democrats took over the senate? And what is it today?
    Was there a housing crisis on the day that the democrats took over the senate?
    How’s healthcare system working since Hillary overhauled it? How’s foreign policy since Slick Willy ignored it over “staining Monica’s dress”…Where’s the democratic poster boy, “John Edwards”….ya’ll are deserately tryin to divorce yourself from the last VP candidate you stood staunchly behind, now are’nt ya?? LOLOLOLOLOL
    The democrats are in control now…..what makes you think Obama getting elected changes anything?? NO MORE DEMOCRATIC CHANGE PLEASE…America can’t afford it now///

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    […] It’s all right here, and it’s short and strong. The way the two men approach problems is literally day and night. The blogger, remember, is with Pajamas Media and was a strong Bush supporter. Baked by Richard @ 8:17 am, Filed under: General […]

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