I think I speak for everyone when I say I am thrilled with the prospect of being told I am not serious, un-American, and unpatriotic because I think it is a bad idea to give away 700 billion dollars to people who just lost several trillion.
Also, I am really glad to know that our moron-in-chief thinks handing a blank check to someone is bold and decisive.
I would love it if just one person in a position of authority said no to this. Just one, so then we could pretend that we had a debate before flushing a trillion bucks.
Maude
These are the same people who got us into this mess. It’s the same as The King is dead-Long Live The King.
This is a constitution breaker. Paulson would have unlimited powers and we know what Bush has down with power.
We will be told that we don’t understand all of this.
We must leave it to the “smart” ones.
This is about the fantasy land fanatics. It has nothing to with us.
They screwed up. Not us.
We can’t throw out the members of congress soon enough to prevent them from betraying us.
It’s all about evading responsibility.
SGEW
You mean besides Ron Paul, I presume. He is a U.S. Representative, after all.
Bernie Sanders?
PeakVT
My fine socialist Representative has come pretty close:
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=303313
garyb50
Starting about 2 years from now, watch all the Democrats claim they were against the Bailout before they were for it.
patrick
He’s not in a position of authority any more, but I do kinda like Robert Reich’s take on the whole situation and his ideas….
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/
Conservatively Liberal
The sad reality in politics is that reality has little to do with political reality. Decisions are not made in the best interests of the country, and it has frustrated me endlessly for years knowing that this is the case and also knowing that the general public is pretty much oblivious to this. All they care is that they have a job, food, a roof over their heads, some digital distractions and a family to care for. With all of this going on, it is no wonder that our public is probably less informed as to the happenings throughout the country, let alone the world.
It is not important enough to them. Yet. You have to get their attention, their lives have to be interrupted so you can get their attention. Unfortunately, by the time people notice it is far too late. The barn has burned down and the horses are dead.
Right now, quite a few people know something is wrong but each side (thank you for that politicians) is pointing fingers at each other and nobody can clearly and succinctly state what we are facing and how we got here. Right now, some people are right and others are wrong but the ones who are wrong are either being misled by their leaders or by themselves.
This mess can not be resolved with more money. Hell, they had money coming out of every orifice and look where we are! What in the fuck makes the politicians think that more money is the solution? My wife, myself and our daughter and son are pissed because none of us have any debt and we have a lot of money in CD’s, energy stocks (hydro), 401(k)s and some bonds. We are savers, and yet we will be the ones who pay for this mess. In more ways than one too.
Politicians see the upcoming election and decisions are going to be politically expedient, which bad decisions are going to be made. The Democrats believe that there is no time for nuance or brawling because the right wins the brawls just about every single time.
Our leaders are not leading, and haven’t been for many years. It is all a game of chess and we are the pawns.
Slide
This is the same tactic they always use. Don’t vote for giving Bush authorization for invading Iraq? Well, then you’ll be responsible for the mushroom cloud. Don’t vote for spying on American citizens well then you’ll be responsible for the next 9/11. Don’t vote for the bailout, well then you’ll be responsible for the depression that is sure to follow.
Unbelievable…. I can’t tell you how sick to my stomach I am about how this country currently operates… how democracy can be gamed by those that are ruthless and without scruples. I know it sounds like hyperbole but if McCain/Palin wins I just don’t know if I can continue living in this country. Oh, and I fucking LOVE this country to those morons that always want to conflate support of the morons in Washington with patriotism.
domino
JC,
Just left this comment at Brad DeLongs, but I think you’ll like it too.
This $700 billion will be the toy not of Paulson, but of the person appointed treasury secretary by either Obama or McCain.
This bill is asking you to put $700 billion on the judgement of the next Treasury Sec.
The betting markets have close to even money on both candidates, therefore:
P(Good appointment) = 0.5*Obama’s Judgment + 0.5*McCain’s Judgment
Given how much thought McCain put into his VP selection, how ready are ready to trust his Treasury Sec? a priori? It could be anyone!! Maybe he’ll decide its “mavriky to appoint an Islamic banker – they don’t believe in interest rates! Who knows what he’d do?
Maybe you or some of your readers have a high opinion of McCain’s judgment. In that case, ask if you’re willing to trust Obama’s Treasury Sec?
So who do you trust?
Obama should come out and say this puts too much power in the hands of the executive.
Glenn
I have no authority but I think I understand what is happening here and it really pisses me off. After 3 decades of being lectured by the right about free markets and individual choice and fiscal and personal responsibility it appears when the super rich and their fellow travelers get in a fix it’s time to change the rules to save them. The Hypocrisy here is stunning. For the rest of us it’s a stiff middle finger if things go wrong for us. Lose your job and see what kind of sympathy you get from this same crowd. Lose a trillion though and no problem we know u didn’t mean it. This reminds me of the scene in the 80’s movie Tradung Places where Eddie Murphy and Dan Acyrod beat the two wealthy old farts at their own game and they want the rules changed and the goal posts moved because as they say it’s they’re game and they own it! In the Movie that doesn’t happen the rules are the rules and they are told to leave and everything they own is confiscated to pay off they’re bet. In this version though the opposite happens doesn’t it? BV$H and his enablers the hapless ,clueless demos. step in and do indeed change the rules and save the two brothers instead. The hypocrisy here is astounding but not surprising. the whole Gov’t is now run by hypocrites and scammers now. Handing over trillions to bail out the super wealthy we all should have seen this coming though. It’s the final FUCK U of the BV$H era. The game is over and BV$H and his gang have pulled off the biggest in your face robbery in history. I’m sure they’re all having a big laugh about it this weekend over chanpagne and caviar at the Aspen or Hampton’s vacation home. The rest of us get to ponder the tab for this ongoing party don’t we?
hilzoy
“I think I speak for everyone when I say I am thrilled with the prospect of being told I am not serious, un-American, and unpatriotic because I think it is a bad idea to give away 700 billion dollars to people who just lost several trillion.”
Heh. You only notice these little things because you’re relatively new to our side of the debate. Some of us have been told we’re unserious, un-American, unpatriotic, not to mention morally depraved, for decades now. We’re inured.
What’s really fun is the surreality of being told that we were unserious back in the 80s because we thought the US should not be supporting dictators with death squads, only to be told back in 2003, by the same people, that our opposition to the war showed that we just didn’t care about the plight of other people who were being victimized by dictators with death squads.
It’s hard to keep track, sometimes. I am waiting for the moment when the political needs of the Republican Party require them to criticize us for being insufficiently concerned with the plight of the polar bear. That, I think, will be some sort of major dadaist triumph.
Slide
Hilzoy has it exactly right. For those of us that didn’t need to be hit over the head with a mallet to know that the Republicans were basically full of shit all these years and that all of their policies were just self-serving mechanisms to enrich their social class welcome the John Cole’s to our side of the argument.
But alas you are now officially an un-American, anti-patriotic elite. Welcome to the club.
SGEW
Some of us have been told this by the very author of this blog because of our opposition to the invasion of Iraq (cough cough).
Wasn’t it a hoot when John Negroponte was telling us this?
So let’s see. In the past couple of weeks the left has been accused of sexism, by Bill O’Reilly, and racism, by Rush Limbaugh. Pretty soon Dr. Dobson will accuse us of homophobia and Henry Paulson will say that we don’t care about poor people.
Viva the Dadaist Revolution! Bicycle tulip hopscotch!
Robert Johnston
Hasn’t that dadaist triumph already happened with the accusations of SEXISM!!!! bandied about against anyone who criticizes Sarah Palin or who criticizes anything or anyone even remotely related to Sarah Palin?
SGEW
The Onion, Our Dumb Century, 1923
Slide
One question… if the taxpayers pay out 700 billion dollars to who the fuck knows who exactly benefits? Does that help one family make a payment on their mortgage? will it help one breadwinner that lost his job to India? will it go towards assisting struggling budgets pay for higher prices for gas/heat/food?
Nope. You see that would be rewarding personal irresponsibility. So who will end up with that 700 billion? I am admittedly not economically sophisticated enough to have a clue but as they said during Watergate, follow the money. Who is going to have fatter wallets as a result of this bailout?
Republicans always rail against redistribution of wealth unless it is going their way of course.
The Conservative Deflator
I say let the whole thing collapse on Bush’s watch and thereby make the GOP brand toxic for 40 years, like what happened after Herbert Hoover. Fuck ’em. You know if they let the bailout go through and something happens in six months, they will blame President Obama for everything.
I’m with John +12, I can hunt and live off the land. Let the whole thing collapse and let’s start over….
Linda
Does Hillary Clinton count? Because she is starting to mount a campaign to at least look at this thing.
smiley
The worst thing is that Paulson will have complete and absolute authority over where the money goes. No oversight, no accountability, and no court will be able to rule on it. If this thing happens, it will be, by far, one of the worst power grabs of the Bush administration’s many power grabs.
TheFountainHead
Fuck. This.
I’ve never started a riot before, myself, but I’d like to learn how, and fast. It seems to me that it is the duty of the people of any good Republic to riot when their government acts contrary to the interest of the survival of said Republic. We have shirked our duty for far too long.
Slide
I think I’m hearing a bit more resistance today, lets hope that the Dems aren’t stampeded into something out of fear. Wait? Did I just say that? Sorry, lost my mind for a moment. Forgot who I was talking about. Bailout is a done deal. Next.
Conservatively Liberal
The Democrats should just stand their ground and say that they are only going to do the minimum to carry the problem past the election and then it will be looked at when there is little political hay to make over it. Rushing into decisions is disastrous and this administration has proven that repeatedly. What makes them think this time is any different?
It’s almost like the Democrats have this he won’t beat me again mentality with Bush. They are afraid to stand up to him in any really meaningful way. Obama can’t do squat because the party has had their spines replaced with Jello, and he is running for office and is not in any position to change anything now.
If the Democrats think they can pass this and then tell us that they will revisit it after the election, they are dead wrong. They need to stand up for the people they represent, the same people that the right are trying to get to foot the bill for their years of partying.
Damn this country is fucked up royally, and that is an understatement.
SGEW
But it is “bold and decisive.”
You know what else is “bold and decisive”? Wrestling rabid tigers whilst covered in liver paste. Now that’s leadership.
Slide
Again, I’m way out of my league here but smiley hits the nail on the head, Paulson (or we can just say Bush administration) has total and complete authority over our 700 billion dollars. Who gets bailed out… at what price… when… how… etc. Does ANYBODY think this is a good idea? How much concentration of power to Washington has happened under this “conservative” administration. I am very very close to violating Godwin’s Law.
Slide
Conservatively Liberal said:
can’t. You see, the whole world is going to come to and end in a matter of hours if they don’t get everything they are asking for.
you see…. mushroom clouds… economic this time. Dems will fold like a house of cards.
Slide
this is part of the bill before congress
total and absolute discretion, without any possible judicial review, to transfer $ 700B of taxpayers money to private corporations of his choosing.
This from the same people that have given us the Iraq War, the Katrina response, Alberto Gonzalez’s Justice Department, Guantanamo, no bid contracts to war profiteers, etc.
mak
I hereby declare that I am the holder of several hundred million dollars in crappy mortgage backed securities, and now wish to get my money back, cuz I feel like it. Where do I submit my paperwork?
SGEW
And remember: this power may wind up in the hands of John McCain’s appointee.
Secretary Phill Gramm, anyone?
Slide
I would check with your local GOP organization.
vishnu schizt
Fixed
Oh shit uh sorry I thought this was an old quote
KSMIAMI
Obama needs to come out and explain that without oversight, or any attempt to link the public welfare, that the deal is a complete and outright theft and unAmerican. I say kick them in the nuts – hard
w vincentz
Seems to me that the middle class citizens of this once great country have been financially RAPED.
Now, they’re expected to buy their own rape kits.
TheFountainHead
Ooh! Ohh! New Internet Traditions!
Phase out “SLAP IN THE FACE”
Phase in “Buy your own rape kit!”
b. hussein canuckistani
Bad idea. Do not start by throwing a brick through the window of your local bank or government office. Don’t start a tire fire in the street. Do not wear a thick padded non-descript jacket, bicycle helmet and swim goggles for the tear gas. Do not fill your pocket with baseball-sized rocks or 1/2″ ball bearings. Don’t wear a mask over your face. Don’t park a bicycle two blocks away. Do leave bail money and your watch with someone you trust. In short, don’t do it. Those dirty protesting hippies at the G7 summits? UnAmerican. Do not emulate.
(This is humorous satirical comment, DHS guys)
SGEW
GYWO’s latest – “Alaska: Come for the fishing, stay for the rape.”
TheFountainHead
I hadn’t thought of the bicycle idea. Very clever. Thanks!
jcricket
Right, Naomi Klein put it this way on Maher, “Palin’s confidence/decisiveness is totally out of proportion to her knowledge on the subject”. Applies to Bush and Republicans in general.
Charging ahead with abandon is only a good idea if you’re certain you’re not at Galipoli.
Jason
Isn’t NJ’s Menendez speaking against it?
jcricket
The problem isn’t just that we’ve been raped, it’s that the rapist keeps being let free, and violates the no-contact order (or that order is rescinded by a rapist friendly judge), and he comes by to rape again.
My dad, a primary care doctor, was a “Reagan Democrat”. He was violently opposed to Hillary’s health care plan. Now, he’s watched his income and buying power decrease for 15 years, as insurance companies have destroyed the primary care system in myriad ways. He’s watched tax cuts for the rich accelerate, while his healthcare bills have skyrocketed and his income taxes have stayed the same (or gone up – AMT). And his 401k has been whip-shawed twice in the last 10 years, just as he approaches retirement, despite being invested diversely.
He’s a pretty big Obama fan right now, and rails against the Republicans as completely out of touch with reality – especially on healthcare. All the physicians that he knows, including him, are big supporters of nationalizing the health insurance market – even if some still support tax cuts for the rich out of selfish interest.
Big reversal in 10 years time. And I don’t think you’ll see a repeat of the Reagan Democrat phenomenom unless Republicans turn their fucking ship around by kicking the evangelicals and Norquist-ians off.
SGEW
Also: Do not clear your cell phone’s call log and contacts, or buy a new, cheap phone. Do not keep $5 in your pocket (some jurisdictions still have vagrancy laws on the books, where they can keep you locked up longer if you have no cash on you: true!). Do not keep a paper clip tucked into the back of your pants (which can easily undo the locking mechanism on plasti-cuffs). If male, do not wear an athletic cup (cops love the low blow). And do not have a squirt bottle filled with a solution of liquid antacid and water in a 1:1 ratio (for tear gas/pepper spray in the eyes).
Nicole
Post of the day, for me.
Sorry I didn’t get to Saratoga this year, w. :( Next year. If we’re still allowed to travel without getting required gov’t permission first.
w vincentz
@Nicole,
I just might have a method of travel for ya. It’s a bit difficult for the “gov’t employees” to chase ya when you’re on horseback and there are trails where their vehicles can’t follow.
See ya at Saratoga next year.
W
mark
Win.
Rick Taylor
I’d like to see one prominent right wing voice screaming bloody murder. I am completely and utterly disgusted with the right wing at this point. I’m not the least bit surprised that they’d throw all there principles into the trash and quietly acquiesce to giving an individual in the government 700 billion dollars to spend without oversight, but I’d like to be a little less cynical. I’d like to believe there are some out there with a bit of principle left.
But of course we all know the real scandal is ear marks.
Brachiator
With the rare exception of Ron Paul, those Republicans and conservatives who used to brag about being libertarians have been oddly muzzled for the past seven years. I sometimes wonder whether they have been paid off, intimidated, coerced somehow.
Because otherwise, I would really like some libertarian to explain exactly how giving a treasury secretary authority to control $700 billion, without review or oversight is remotely related to the idea that “small government” is best.
The old bullshit: The surge is working.
The new bullshit: The financial markets have been stabilized.
Martin
I agree, this is very worrying. Democrats *can* stand up to this if they do it properly. Obama can stand up to this. But they need to stand up with substance. It’s not enough to jump out there and say ‘Something is wrong here’. They need to go out and say ‘This plan violates the principles on which this nation was founded, here’s what we’ll offer instead’, and lay out the details. Force Paulson to defend why the new proposal is bad, and it takes out the ‘they don’t want to do anything’ attack. The problem is, problems this large take some time to work out. I keep holding out hope that something like this is happening over the weekend, but I’m 99% sure that it isn’t.
Steve S.
Dem leaders are making noise about attaching some relief for the “folks on Main Street” to the deal which, frankly, only makes it worse for someone like me. I no more like the idea of assorted irresponsible home buyers and house flippers stealing my money than the Wall Street crowd. I mean, we’re talking about a nation of drooling imbeciles who think that $200 a month for a telephone and $3000 a month for a house are good deals. Fuck ’em if they’re that stupid.
As for the Wall Street criminals, we’re all dreaming if we think that St. Barack and his cohorts will ever hold their feet to the fire in a meaningful way. The best that can be hoped for is that, after they have assraped us of the trillion dollars, they then enact some regulation that will prevent the financial mafia from doing this again for a few decades until the memory of this disaster fades and the next wave of deregulation begins.
Sorry I couldn’t be more optimistic.
Martin
Ok, if this is real (who the fuck knows) then it’s somewhat encouraging. I know that what politicians say on Meet the Press rarely syncs with what they say to their spouses, but I hope Democrats are spitting blood over this.
Chris Andersen
Obama this morning in Charlotte:
jcricket
This is a perfect line (well, close to it). How about, no bail-out for wall street without help for main street as a seconndary line as well.
If all Dems lined up behind it, and refused to blink during the game of brinkmanship, we would succeed at adding much needed relief for individuals, oversight and protection for the taxpayer in the bailout.
BTW, apparently there are roving packs of wild lobbyists with “dire predictions” for lawmakers who refuse to simply pass this bail-out as is. Anyone who doesn’t laugh, and then give a big fucking middle finger to these ass-hats deserves to be tossed from office.
OF COURSE they’re going to say, “don’t pass any regulations, don’t pass any sanctions, don’t take my bonus” – that’s their job as lobbyists for the greedy fucktards who got us in this mess. But we don’t have to listen if we don’t want to. These were the same assmunchers that claimed the Clinton tax hikes were going to doom economic growth, and look how that worked out.
We don’t listen to young-earth creationists when trying to figure out where to drill for oil, so we don’t need to listen to sky-is-falling lobbyists when it comes to fiscal policy. They are not the ones I’m interested in protecting above all others.
Notorious P.A.T.
Do not carry nail-clippers in your pocket to cut the riot cuffs they put on you.
bootlegger
There need to be roving packs of wild citizens and the damned lobbyists better get out of the way if they don’t want to decorate a light pole.
If you find yourself by accident in one of those roving packs of wild citizens, do not cut the tires on police cruisers to reduce their mobility.