And they risk losing their IRS exemptions:
Setting the stage for a collision of religion and politics, Christian ministers from 22 states will use their pulpits Sunday to deliver political sermons or endorse candidates — defying a federal ban on campaigning by nonprofit groups.
The ministers’ advocacy could violate the Internal Revenue Service’s rules against political speech with the purpose of triggering IRS investigations.
That would allow their patron, the conservative legal group Alliance Defense Fund, to challenge the IRS’ rules, a risky strategy that one defense fund attorney acknowledges could cost the churches their tax-exempt status. Congress made it illegal in 1954 for tax-exempt groups to support or oppose political candidates publicly.
“I’m going to talk about the un-biblical stands that Barack Obama takes. Nobody who follows the Bible can vote for him,” said the Rev. Wiley Drake of First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif.
Bring it on. I would love these, and all churches, to lose their IRS tax-free statuses. I never understood why religious organizations had those exemptions in the first place.
SnarkyShark
You ought to see the Mega churches they built here in Houston.
I can see giving congregations under a certain number(
NickM
Be careful what you wish for. I’m afraid the churches are going to have more clout in this fight.
NonyNony
Because they’re organized in the IRS tax code as apolitical not-for-profit organizations. And that’s because churches have historically been on the front line for charitable works in this country.
These guys are clueless – there’s no way they win this. This isn’t a “First Amendment” thing at all – this is a tax code thing. They’re giving up their ability to endorse candidates in exchange for tax exempt status – just like the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, Goodwill and thousands of other charitable organizations across the country. If they don’t like the restriction there’s an easy way to get around it – give up your tax exempt status. This is simple stuff.
They’re counting on the Supreme Court to be very sympathetic to them. That’s what this is – these guys think that the Court is as sympathetic as it’s going to get. They may be right, but I still have a hard time thinking that even with a few of the hacks on the Court now they’re going to let them get away with this as a “First Amendment” argument.
cleek
those preachers are making some pretty big assumptions:
1. their flocks want to be told who to vote for
2. their flocks want their religious time to become politicized
3. their flocks will always agree with the politics of the preacher
on the other hand, it’s hard to argue with Spoon:
Davis X. Machina
I never understood why religious organizations had those exemptions in the first place.
If as the aphorism has it the power to tax is the power to destroy, and it is, at least to a limited extent, then the power to tax churches is, at least in posse, the ability to reward and punish some congregations, doctrines and practices at the expense of others. And then you’re up against the free exercise clause.
You could strike a balance in a place different than the balance that presently exists. And that’s likely what these churches seek.
Religious entities may be privileged over other corporate bodies in this regard only becaue churches are like firearms — both were lucky to be already extant when the Bill of Rights got drafted.
SGEW
Right on, Michael. I’ve been going on about this for a long time now.
Tax the Church! Remove Religion From Government!
Impeach God!
[not joking]
r€nato
I heard a report on this on NPR a couple days ago. They interviewed some fundy preacher who had an astounding sense of entitlement and victimization simultaneously that just made me want to retch.
Oh yes, you are so horribly oppressed with your tax exemption racket! I wish I could be that oppressed too!
The kicker is that it’s very easy for these preachers to tiptoe right up to the line without crossing it and still keep their tax exemption.
And when you come right down to it, isn’t this spoiled-child sense of entitlement the illness which infects most of today’s right wing? They want all the benefits of public infrastructure but they don’t want to pay for it. They want endless war but they want someone else to pay for it and someone else to fight it. They want to preach laissez-faire free market economics for you and me but they want a bailout for Wall Street. They want a bailout but the wealthy bankers and other assorted financial snake oil salesmen who would benefit from it should not be taxed to pay for it. They talk about how great America is while simultaneously undermining the very principles which make this country great and special. They prattle on endlessly about ‘strict constructionism’ while looking the other way when their president decides that he can act like a dictator if he just says the magic word, ‘war.’ They preach ‘fiscal conservatism’ while their buddies loot the treasury. They advocate getting the government off your back while they put it in your bedroom and tell you who you can fuck and who you can marry. They rail against those barbaric Islamic extremists while we torture and toss into gulags innocent Muslims who pissed off the wrong Afghani warlord.
They have no sense of the common welfare or the social contract. It’s all one big power grab to them with no other guiding principle than, ‘how much can I get away with?’ and, ‘the ends justify the means.’
HeartlandLiberal
I just sent the following email (with the report on the IRS issue appended) to my conservative hyper fundamentalist Christian niece down in Alabama. The sad thing is, she will probably not read it, since she lives in terror of any facts that rock the boat of her hard rock fundamentalism.
==========
I think what puzzles me the most here is this:
1. Obama is the most religious man in this race. One marriage. Beautiful kids. And he believes in the principles laid down in the book of Matthew: http://www.matthew25.org/. Feed the hungray, cloth the naked, care for the poor. That to me has always been the truest core message in the New Testament.
2. McCain committed adultery against his first wife. Palin is now being reported by the National Enquirer as having had an adulterous affair with her husband’s business partner a couple years ago.
3. Lying. The entire McCain/Palin campaign for the past three weeks has been a steady stream of the most bald-faced lies perhaps in the history of American presidential campaigns. Every claim they make has been shown repeatedly by even the mainstream media to be just one false hood after another.
4. Greed and selfishness. John McCain has so many houses he has lost count. He has 13 cars. His wife wore dress and jewelery to the Republican convention that cost $300,000.00. This people do not care about you, and me, and average Americans.
The only true Christian is this game is Barack obama, and his wife Michelle, and Sen. Biden.
But what I see as the worst legacy of decades of Republican rule is the destruction of the boundary between Church and State. Churches are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN by law to engage in political activity, or they lose their tax exempt status.
And it is about time this law was enforced. The tragedy is, enforcing the law is something Republicans no longer believe in under Bush/Cheney Republicanism.
r€nato
The way I understand it, if churches can be allowed to engage in explicit political activity, then it amounts to using taxpayer money to subsidize it since they get an exemption from paying taxes.
And from there it’s a very, very short step to organizing sham churches whose sole purpose is to engage in political activity while using the tax exemption.
But you can’t explain that to the fundy mentalist right; it’s all about them and to hell with the rest of society, so long as they get their way.
Bedlam UK
Maybe I’m missing something.
So currently Churches dont pay tax so they have more money to do charitable and Christian things.
But they cant endorce any political stances or persons.
Now they want to NOT pay tax and TO have the right to endorse a political party/person.
And they are RISKING the fact that they could lose their Tax free status?
So charitable works on one hand / Attempt to get McPalin in to hurry up the Rapture on the other.
Seems Greedy and unchristian to me.
They could just be honest for once, “say sod the poor, homeless and hungry, I’m a fan of McCain and want to yell it from the rooftops baby !!”
Comrade Jake
OT, but check out this diary over at Kos concerning insider McCain reports on Palin’s debate prep.
Sounds like it’s pretty much been an unmitigated disaster. And this is getting picked up by the MSM.
Moose Lips Sink Ships.
Rome Again
Right wing churches are not charitable, unless advice about pulling up bootstraps is what passes for charity these days.
Right wing churches are more political than 90% of the people you pass everyday in the streets of most cities.
They’ve been getting a free ride for a long time. It’s time it ended.
Btw, Obama is more like Jesus than any politician I know. Of course the Jesus who stood on the Mount of Olives and said “blessed are the peacemakers” is nothing more than a foreign usurper to the Luciferian war-god brand of Jesus they worship.
Comrade Napoleon
I hope they hammer those MFs once they do this.
I heard it also. The thing that was absolutely amazing is that that when near the end they ask him “what if they take your tax exempt status away” the smuck said “we will just file they exemption form again the next day since a church is entited to exempt status in the US”. The cluelessness of that statement is amazing. He thinks that if they loose they somehow waive a magic wand and it all goes away. Of course only churches that do not engage in prohibited activities can file, which is the whole issue.
I hope they get hammered like there is no tommorrow.
Svensker
Really? Seems to me that yesterday the World Council of Churches, the Mennonites, and the Quakers (in their various forms) sat down to dinner with Pres. Ahmadinejad, to show their support for a peaceful resolution of differences with Iran. Hardly right wing. And pretty much braver than any other lefty groups have been on the issue.
Many right wingers are religious is not the same thing as all religious are right wing.
That said, I think that churches have to remain apolitical or lose their tax exemption, just like any other non-profit.
r€nato
they are counting on the fact that if the GOP is in charge, they think they can have their cake and eat it too.
As a matter of fact, I remember that same fundy preacher in the NPR story, saying that he figured they had a pretty good shot at getting away with this since the Supreme Court is so conservative and Roberts is the Chief Justice.
They know the fix is in, just like Bush’s campaign in 2000 knew the fix would be in at SCOTUS if the election lawsuit got that far.
r€nato
Fundy mentalists have given all of Christianity a big, black eye and I wish the Xian left would do more to distance themselves from them and rehabilitate their religion’s name. I have to constantly remind myself that these assholes do not represent all Christians, just like OBL does not represent all Muslims.
Comrade Scrutinizer
Well, that’s ’cause you’re not from around here. You’re probably under the ‘fluence of witches.
Your whole worldview changes when Putin flies through your airspace, and you’re on the frontline of a narrow naval frontier separating you from the country that, you know, you can see from your house, and we’re just lucky to have a mavericky maverick to ride to our rescue like John Wayne having hands laid on him by the Great Reformer because in God we trust and the Devil take the hindmost, and we are just fulfilling God’s plan for the world by being as exceptional as we are on snow machines.
Okay?
cleek
yes.
and with all due respect, Quakers et al are tiny anachronisms.
and to be fair to Spoon (since i don’t know their religious views), those lines are the thoughts of the subject of the song, not a statement from the singer. ie. it’s more of a quote from a character.
whocoodanode
Churches have tax-exemption because of the separation of Church and State. If Churches pay taxes, they are due representation by the State. Which has not worked well in the past, to say it minimally.
As with so much of this long march to steal from America the fruits of the “liberal era” of our so-called Greatest Generation, to simply ENFORCE THE LAW would solve the “problem.” In reality, liberalism is a bulwark against tyranny, which is of course why it has always been a target of corrupt political movements.
The slurping of public wealth by Churches, Big Business, Media and our political system is the basis of a specific political construct which would invite Godwin’s law if specifically detailed. Seeing rightwing “Churches” begin shilling for tyrants and war are a foremost symptom of this dread disease which Conservatives are continually reinfecting society with either on purpose or by ignorant mistake.
SGEW
“Only an asshole like God would bless a shithole like the U.S.A.”
Roonieroo
Honestly, this has happened the last three elections (maybe more) and the same arguments/articles/news stories are run. Nothing happens to these churches/preachers. They get away with it year after year.
I expect the same thing to happen this time. They will get up, talk about why Obama is an anathema to “True Christians” and how McCain is the only one that can represent their deeply moral values. Happens every election cycle.
w vincentz
Jesus said, “Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s…”
If it was good enough for him, it should be good enough for those that claim to follow him.
SGEW
So does the G.O.P.’s election stealing enterprise. Doesn’t make it right, or acceptable.
Bedlam UK
Yup, that cleared that up !
And we’ve got Gordon Brown.
Yeah thanks.
Our country is going down the drain too, but at least ours is going because we’re too polite to tell our politicans to fuck off.
We may have lost our spine and common sence but at least our politicians have to keep a modicum of intelligence whilst they screw us over.
Your Rethugs are a dancing clown of a party, telling lies that are so stupid that even Satire seems sensible in comparison.
And your media, and half your population are nodding along and going woohoo.
Bizarre.
You better get your arse to one of those churches, coz if mad McPalin gets her grubby mitts on that big red button, your countries economy will merely be the ‘old name’ for those bits of green paper you’ll be using to light the fires to keep you warm as you grow a second head in the nuclear winter.
ed
I would love these, and all churches, to lose their IRS tax-free statuses.
Yeah, I’m sure Bush, Jr.’s justice department and IRS will get right on that. There is zero chance that anything more than cosmetic wrist slaps will happen as a result.
Comrade Zifnab
Uh… Churches do, in fact, have due representation by the State. You see, churches are made up of congregations. And congregations are made up of people. And people are voters. Ergo, voters -> congregations -> churches have due representation in government. That’s not the issue here.
This isn’t a religion issue, its a tax issue. Can churches turn themselves into tax-exempt PACs? If the courts say yes, this will have huge ramifications on our electoral system. Every PAC in America will organize itself as a church. Why wouldn’t they? Obama rakes in $30-50 million a month. Imagine how much money he could get if you could write off all these donations as charitable contributions?
Likewise, churches would allow folks to sidestep the maximum contribution caps. Why donate $2300 to McCain when you can donate $23,000 to the Church of POW?
Still, with our current SCOTUS, it’ll just come down to whether Stevens is in a conservative mood or not.
SGEW
It’s just called “The Department” now.
Actually, Stevens is one of the least theocratic (i.e., most secular) of the Justices to sit th’ bench right now. It’s Kennedy and the four other Catholics that would hold the majority on this case (not that their Catholicity makes any difference to their jurisprudential theories, of course, cough cough choke).
Kennedy will write the majority opinion, focusing heavily on historical precedents of dubious scholarly accuracy. Scalia will concur (w/ Thomas, natch), but say that non-religious not-for-profit charities should be taxed. Ginsburg’s blistering dissent will be held up as evidence of her “judicial activism.” Stevens will write a separate dissent, and it will be erudite, and sad.
Not that it’ll make it to the Supremes by Nov. 4th, of course.
SGEW
Cursed strike tags! How I hate them, and their proclivity of misinterpreting hyphenation!
John S.
Not to go all “End of Days” on you guys, but this is one of the ‘signs of the end’ foretold in Revelations — that the Great Beast (Governments) will turn on the Harlot (False Religion).
I find it fascinating, of course, that the Christianists are doing their part to hasten things along. Not because they are actively pushing for Armageddon (we know that’s the goal), but because they have literally accepted that they are the Great Harlot of Babylon.
flounder
Look at the time frame.
They have tax-exempt status for the same reason that the phrase “under God” is in the Pledge.
Comrade Zifnab
Gah! Kennedy. I get him and Stevens confused a lot. Apologizes.
Governor Sarah Palin
In what respect, flounder? If it was good enough for the founding fathers its good enough for me.
Comrade Scrutinizer
I think there’s only one thing worse than Palin getting her hands on the red button-McCain getting his doddering hands on the red button.
burnspbesq
More background on this, including the high-stakes game of chicken being played by the lawyers involved in this mess, can be found here.
http://www.relaxedpolitics.com/?p=2694
SGEW
I would literally leap for joy if Caplin and Drysdale got the Alliance Defense Fund lawyers on this case got sanctioned and/or disbarred for pullin’ a mobster’s consigliere deal.
Oh lordy, please. Pleasepleaseplease.
cleek
oh let me whore… Sarah Markov Palin
SGEW
cleek, you are the master.
You must live-blog the V.P. debates. Hell, you should moderate them.
lucslawyer
No christians, know peace….
whocoodanode
Zifnab says: “Uh… Churches do, in fact, have due representation by the State. You see, churches are made up of congregations. And congregations are made up of people. And people are voters. Ergo, voters -> congregations -> churches have due representation in government. That’s not the issue here.”
There is a tremendous, huge difference between individuals being represented by the State, and having an institution be represented. In fact, this is the crucial difference between liberty and tyranny.
binzinerator
Say, were you involving in programming the speech module of that Yoyodyne robotics stepford candidate that recently was in the news?
Clor
What is it with these fundy churches? My Catholic church sent out an info sheet in the weekly bulletin stating that churches are NOT to endorse candidates and only inform the voters about Catholic teaching on issues and voting procedures.
CrazyNewfie
There’s your october surprise. Don’t underestimate this gambit – they’ll rail full-on against the evil secularists that hate christians or something, and they’ll get votes from the fever swamp for it.
Gary Farber
I wrote about this two weeks ago here, if you’re interested.
Dennis Garland
My mother Attends a Roman Catholic church in the Rockford diocese in Illinois. I called last week and she told me she wasn’t voting this time–the first time she has ever not voted. I asked why and she said she didn’t like McCain and couldn’t vote for Obama because the priest told her she would have to leave the church if she did. She said they even handed out pamphlets telling people who they could and couldn’t vote for. It had to do with abortion is what she told me. I haven’t seen the pamphlet but Ma doesn’t lie to me about stuff like this so I believe her.
zuzu's petals
Absolutely right.
Regardless of how they want to frame it, what is at stake here is a simple economic interest – exemption from taxation. That gets the lowest level of scrutiny of all, the rational basis test. In other words, if the government has a rational basis for imposing the tax classification, it gets a pass. Rational meaning it has some plausibly reasonable basis and is not arbitrary or capricious.
In other words: churches fail on this one.
zuzu's petals
Quite possibly. But in the meantime, they will be required to pay taxes on the income they receive, and (if the state laws follow fed law) on their property, and no one gets a tax deduction for their donations to the church.
w vincentz
I’ve got the solution. When the collection plate comes along, the parishioners reach into their pockets and remove everything that says “In God We Trust” on it. Put it in the collection plate so the “church” can pay taxes.
The the parishioners will be free to trust God.
Problem solved.
Didjaknow that I pay taxes so the snowplow will plow the road in front of my house AND also the Catholic Church’s that’s next door to my house?
The ghost of Frank Zappa
Tax the churches.
Tax the businesses owned by the churches.
Margarita
These guys know that their tax-exempt status is in jeopardy of being challenged. That’s what they want:
Victims and martyrs. That’s what pays the rent.
If McCain wins, of course, they win, and that’ll be the end of it. If Obama wins, he’ll probably be smart enough to have the IRS just issue some form letters admonishing them, in which case there’s no real downside. If Obama’s IRS did litigate the churches’ tax status, it’ll mean culture war x 11, which is what these guys live on. And bottom line, the shmuck who said they’d just file the exemption form again the next day probably has it about right. They’d pay the fine as a cost of doing business and be on their merry way.
Kit
HA! Would love to see my mother’s RCChurch get it’s exemption revoked. She came home Sunday with an amused look on her face and told us that they had basically told the congregation to vote McCain. Said it was the first time they’d done that in all her years.
goatchowder
Tax the churches!
Oh, also, tax the FUCK out of the churches!
IIRC, these were some of Frank Zappa’s famous last words. Good on him.
Wayne
I have linked to your post from Pulpit Endorsements: The Sky Will Not Fall
I’ll visit again with some answers for: I never understood why religious organizations had those exemptions in the first place.