Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2008 / That Will Leave a Mark

That Will Leave a Mark

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This piece on the debates at the Politico was pretty brutal, which means of course that I loved it:

Millions of Americans were watching Thursday night’s vice presidential debate, waiting for a demolition derby moment — another crash by GOP running mate Sarah Palin, another serving of raw material for the writers at “Saturday Night Live.”

By that standard, she got out alive, though there were white-knuckle moments along the way: questions that were answered with painfully obvious talking points that betrayed scant knowledge of the issue at hand and sometimes little relevance to the question that had been asked.

***

To the contrary, it is hard to count any objective measures by which Biden did not clearly win the encounter. She looked like she was trying to get people to take her seriously. He looked like he was running for vice president. His answers were more responsive to the questions, far more detailed and less rhetorical.

On at least 10 occasions, Palin gave answers that were nonspecific, completely generic, pivoted away from the question at hand, or simply ignored it: on global warming, an Iraq exit strategy, Iran and Pakistan, Iranian diplomacy, Israel-Palestine (and a follow-up), the nuclear trigger, interventionism, Cheney’s vice presidency and her own greatest weakness.

Asked which is a greater threat, a nuclear Pakistan or a nuclear Iran, Palin seemed to be stalling, or writing a term paper, when she said: “An armed, nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider.”

Brutal.

Reader Interactions

32Comments

  1. 1.

    Cols714

    Wow
    That is brutal. I like it. I rewatched the debate, and she comes off much much worse the 2nd time around than the 1st time around. Biden owned this debate. As time goes by, this is going to be more and more apparent.

    She did nothing to make people want to vote for her and I think that Biden showed that you can feel safe voting for Obama.

  2. 2.

    cleek

    i gotta stop drinking before i watch these debates. my impression last night was that she did pretty well, a bit grating, pretty shallow, but not bad. when everyone but RedState and the Corner-holes disagree with me, something must be wrong…

    (also, BJ Pie Filter updated for the new site. you betcha)

  3. 3.

    Comrade Fedorovich Stuck

    “An armed, nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider.”

    She could use some Goose Grade.

  4. 4.

    Crusty Dem

    I call it "word soup". All the right words are there, just in the wrong order, with a few other words thrown in just to increase the level of confusion.

    If you expected her to step up and answer questions in clear English, you had to be disappointed. Considering that 84% thought she did better than they expected, I have to wonder what people were actually expecting, because it really couldn’t have been much worse. Did they think she’d run off the stage crying? Answer a question with a "I just don’t know, I’ll get back to ya."? Piss herself?

    She’s just Cheney with a lobotomy.

  6. 6.

    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse

    That’s weird. I can’t see any link at all in FF 3, nor does one appear in my copy of the page source.

    (This is the article you’re all talking about, right?)

    Speaking of links, I have noticed that in this new design that links are a bit too subtle for me to see sometimes. The underline appears on mouseover, but the overt difference between linked text and regular text is just navy blue versus black. Can the stylesheet be tweaked to make links slightly larger or bolder, or a more distinct colour?

  7. 7.

    Crusty Dem

    From Lowry at The Idiots Corner (via Sullivan):

    I’m sure I’m not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can’t be learned; it’s either something you have or you don’t, and man, she’s got it.

    I bet he goes to Hooters because the waitresses there are really into him. He probably thinks strippers and hookers have a thing for him, too.

    I just wish we could kidnap these idiots and tattoo the stupid things they say onto them, so whenever they appear on TV, everyone will be reminded what idiots they are.

    Peggy Noonan: "Magic Dolphins"
    Rick Lowry: "Little Starbursts"
    Jonah Goldberg: "Liberal Fascism" – if we tried to mark everything idiotic he’s ever written, would we run out of skin or ink first.
    Mickey Kaus: I’m pretty sure we could just transcribe his entire blog onto his fivehead…

  8. 8.

    Laura W

    It was horrendously embarrassing for our country and an abomination to watch. I should just turn tee vee off today since all I do is mute it during every single replay and bloviating head upchuck. While I feel like I, too, should watch it again sober, I know that is merely a dream. I’d stroke out from cringing so hard.

    I was thinking about how disappointed I’ve been with both moderators, and god knows what Brokaw has to contribute at this point. It made me very grateful for Couric. She got all the best shit over these days, and dished it out in little bite-size, sound-bite, portions. Every day she made the news with her interviews. As I recall, CBS felt dissed because they had no representation in the four debates? Methinks The Revenge of Miss Katie was the best reward ever.

  10. 10.

    D. Mason

    my impression last night was that she did pretty well, a bit grating, pretty shallow

    I think your problem is the same as mine. I found myself actually stunned at how well she did, so stunned I was a bit worried about the election. After sleeping on it though I realize that my expectations(hopes?) were so painfully low that she could have honestly not have been as bad as I hoped(expected?) if she tried.

  11. 11.

    Xanthippas

    From Lowry at The Idiots Corner

    How can you write that not be embarrassed later? Like, five seconds later? Yeah okay some guys find Palin attractive, but about none of them are going to write on a highly public political blog that she gives them starbursts in the pants. And it’s supposed to be a selling point to the rest of us that Palin gives Lowry wood?

  12. 12.

    SGEW

    I’ve gotta say something that isn’t being said enough:

    Joe Biden rocked. He gave the best performance of his career. He nailed it. Maybe had a slow start (c.f., Sully), but just PWND Palin by the end. In the debate, Joe "Champ" Biden:

    -Made no flubs that can be made into good clips.

    -Jammed a good chunk of his basic stump speech (which is quite good, IMHO) into the debate without appearing to avoid the questions too much.

    -Showed off his policy chops in a manner that did not appear to "condescend" to Palin (besides the automatic pitiful comparison between the two that his fluency necesarily implied).

    -Was personable . . . possibly more personable than Sarah "I’m A Real Human, Honest!" Palin.

    -Jabbed the knife in so quick and hard that the McCain campaign will be bleeding for weeks. Short sharp slices that they probably haven’t even noticed yet (most dangerous V.P. evah, bitches!).

    -Was so super classy. A gentleman (and not in a bad way!). I creamed a bit*.

    -And he cried better than Hillary ever could. Eat it, Schmidt!

    MIRITE? Last night Joe Biden made me much more reassured about his coming Vice Presidential administration (especially his answers on the powers of the OVP). He did everything I wanted from him as a candidate, and exceeded my expectations as a potential V.P. (or, avert evil, President).

    *This is hyperbole, and not to be taken at face value. Or, as Joe would say, not "literally."

  15. 15.

    Crusty Dem

    SGEW – totally agree. I didn’t think Biden could walk that fine line and he did it brilliantly. He was solid, moderately aggressive, and didn’t say anything that could be attacked. For the venue and his opponent, it was a nearly flawless performance..

  17. 17.

    Comrade Poopsie

    The tirelessly voluble Governor, having had to take a literary break at some point from all those deadly mundane newspapers she’s been reading, is no doubt familiar with the wisdom of French poet Paul Valery: God created the universe out of nothing, but the nothing shows through.

  18. 18.

    uila

    @Laura W:

    It was horrendously embarrassing for our country and an abomination to watch.

    Thanks, I second that.

    As for the Couric interview clips, it occurs to me how much more effective they were thanks to the insidious YouTube. How many more people got to be exposed to her inane ramblings than would have even 4 years ago? And honestly, thank god!

  19. 19.

    malraux

    538 reports that the Neilson ratings for this were very high, ~50% higher than last week’s presidential debate. Assuming that’s true, this might end up being a VP debate that matters. This was really Palin’s second chance to appeal to the independents, if you count her RNC acceptance speech. Given that the polls show independents really not being impressed, it really can only drive her numbers down. Additionally, she didn’t really do anything to break the Tina Fey image, so with her disappearing from view again, McCain/Palin really can’t look too good to the undecideds.

  20. 20.

    malraux

    @SGEW:

    Maybe had a slow start (c.f., Sully), but just PWND Palin by the end.

    I suspect the slow start was planned. Not because he wanted to start slow, but because it was impossible to know what Palin’s style was going to be in advance. I’m sure his debate prep involved gaming out all sorts of different scenarios of Palin coming out in vicious attack, speaking in tongues, etc. He needed to know what her style was before he could go outside of some very safe bounds.

  23. 23.

    uila

    Great post up by Digby:

    I’m going to start referring to her as George W Palin. She has every one of the characteristics that people thought were so refreshingly "authentic" when he ran in 2000 and which led us to disaster. This arrogant, empty, anti-intellectual faux populism has just proved itself to be inadequate for the presidency and yet they’ve put up another one.

    The whole thing is spot on.

    I can’t wait for the election to be over so we can be done with this sideshow.

    Ed Rollins just said that Sarah Palin is now the front runner for the GOP nomination in 2012.

    …..[speechless]…..

  24. 24.

    Comrade The Moar You Know

    I’m sure I’m not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can’t be learned; it’s either something you have or you don’t, and man, she’s got it.

    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I bet he goes to Hooters because the waitresses there are really into him. He probably thinks strippers and hookers have a thing for him, too.

    Undoubtedly. I could share some insight from having dated (not employed, LOL) a high-dollar escort, but will refrain. But yeah, that’s some world class suckerhood, right there.

    and god knows what Brokaw has to contribute at this point

    Kneepads and lube for his new butt-buddy McCain. He never struck me as being much of a conservative, but he clearly has some issue with Obama this election cycle. It seems to be much more of an anti-Democrat than a pro-Republican thing.

  25. 25.

    Delia

    Hilzoy on Rich Lowry and The Wink:

    I’m sure I’m not the only female in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, rolled her eyes and thought: oh, dear God. We have all seen just that wink deployed at guys like Rich Lowry. We have all watched in amazement as it actually works, despite its transparent manipulativeness. What, we all wonder, could those guys possibly be thinking? (What the winking women are thinking is usually altogether too clear.) I’m betting that for every male vote that wink picked up, it lost at least one woman.

  26. 26.

    Punchy

    “An armed, nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider.”

    I can haz "Iran" azza adjective? Didn’t Palin learn English at one of her 5 colleges?

    Is she speaking Eskimese?

  27. 27.

    Bill H

    "…unless you’re pleased with the way the federal government has been running anything lately, I don’t think that it’s going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the feds."

    Um, hello. Most popular program ever, next to Social Security; Medicare.

  28. 28.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    How can you write that not be embarrassed later? Like, five seconds later? Yeah okay some guys find Palin attractive, but about none of them are going to write on a highly public political blog that she gives them starbursts in the pants. And it’s supposed to be a selling point to the rest of us that Palin gives Lowry wood?

    Yeah, I’m going to change my vote based on that… NOT!

    By the way, I downloaded a FF 3 add-on called BBCode which has 3 custom codes you can program in as well as other code features and all I have to do now is right click and paste my blockquote cite code in now. ;)

    [I’m using {blockquote cite} text {/blockquote} (the cite in the close tag always screws up the code) – { and } substituted for code brackets of course.

  29. 29.

    Polish the Guillotines

    @malraux:

    538 reports that the Neilson ratings for this were very high, ~50% higher than last week’s presidential debate. Assuming that’s true, this might end up being a VP debate that matters. This was really Palin’s second chance to appeal to the independents, if you count her RNC acceptance speech. Given that the polls show independents really not being impressed, it really can only drive her numbers down. Additionally, she didn’t really do anything to break the Tina Fey image, so with her disappearing from view again, McCain/Palin really can’t look too good to the undecideds.

    The big tell is going to be what SNL does this weekend (expect the The Wink(tm) to be in full effect) next week’s poll numbers ought to pancake. Of course I’m just idly spewing in the comments section of a blog…

  32. 32.

    HRA

    How many Sarah Palins are there? Am I alone is seeing one Palin who speaks differently from the other Palin? I am not referring to gaffes here. I am referring to the one who speaks normally (?) versus the one who speaks folksy. As of now I have not seen anyone address this switching of Palin.

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