Two quick primers if you are interested in one of the things bringing down the worldwide economy.
First, 60 Minutes:
Second, a very informative This American Life Podcast.
Currently, the DOW is below 10,000. A flashback from Calculated Risk:
by John Cole| 87 Comments
This post is in: Domestic Politics, Election 2008
Two quick primers if you are interested in one of the things bringing down the worldwide economy.
First, 60 Minutes:
Second, a very informative This American Life Podcast.
Currently, the DOW is below 10,000. A flashback from Calculated Risk:
Comments are closed.
[…] (John Cole) […]
Scrutinizer
Fuck the Dow. It’s only down 3.83%. The S&P 500 is down 4.83%, and the NASDAQ is down 5.17%. The S&P is what most mutual funds/retirement plans are based on.
Joshua
The 60 Minutes article was great last night. I loved that tool from the derivatives trade group getting destroyed. And the fact that the one guy explained how these companies were selling "insurance" but not calling it so they can escape regulation and capital requirements. Poor black people didn’t make those decisions.
The last bit, too, about how these actions taken by these companies amounted to CRIMINAL neglect was very important, too. People need to know this economic crisis was not because of poor minorities or "rogue employees", it was a top down effort spearheaded by America’s contemporary Titans of Industry, the Randian Heroes of Capitalism that have been credited with all that is good in this country since Reagan. And they should be in jail.
Punchy
We fucked. Saw over the ‘kend that many companies wont even bother tapping the Fed’s $7 gazillion dollah bailout cuz they–get this–dont want to give up their golden parachutes.
They’d rather go BK than force their CEOs to give up their $50 million severance packages.
Dow will see 8000 by election day.
Punchy
Dow in complete and utter free-fall.
We’re entering very serious shit here. Quickly.
/vomits in mouth
Jon H
There really oughtta be a law that any screwup that loses this much money and requires a taxpayer is a felony even if it wasn’t covered by any specific law. Some kind of general malfeasance.
John S.
And so as a
mancorporate culture of greed has lived, so shallheit perish.NonyNony
You probably saw it here. I recall making a comment about the unpatriotic sack of shit Wall Street CEOs who put their paychecks above the health of the country.
Doesn’t matter, though – it’ll be a few weeks before Paulson can even start using that money from what I’ve read. Not legislatively but logistically – they have to get the mechanisms in place to do the disbursement.
As of now that’s 5.2%, 6.0% and 6.6% respectively. And it’s not even 11 yet. Yeesh.
I wonder what happened to those "bargain hunters" who were crawling around last week.
TheFountainHead
I do not think that means what you think it means.
Dug Jay
The upside is that a lot of people will have the opportunity to learn new skills, such as selling apples to strangers on the sidewalk, or cleaning the windshields of cars stopped at traffic lights.
Mithi
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355
There’s The Giant Pool of Money from This American Life for people that don’t have itunes. At least, I assume that’s what you’re talking about cause I’ve been seeing it everywhere the past few weeks. Good show, the Sigur Ros clips were a nice touch.
http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/365.mp3
And here’s the follow-up, done by the same guys, that aired last weekend.
I’d format these links but your comment preview is giving me shit so this’ll have to do.
SamFromUtah
They’d rather go BK than force their CEOs to give up their $50 million severance packages.
How widely is this known? I can’t imagine it would go over well with the general public, and I wouldn’t be disappointed to see those fatcats thoroughly and very publicly discredited.
Comrade Jake
Kramer was on NBC this morning, telling people that if they have money in the stock market they plan to use in the next 5 years, they should get it out, ASAP. He was predicting a 20% drop in the DOW, sooner rather than later.
The anchor was gobsmacked. Good times.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
I’ll copy my comment from the previous thread:
OT: If today’s market opening is any indication (flirting with sub-9900 within an hour of opening), no one may care about Wright or Keating or Rezko in a few days. This is very, very serious. This weekend, "This American Life" had a riveting, frightening show about the financial crisis. Listen at your own risk, but if you want to understand the cancer that are credit default swaps, this is your ticket.
Obama should be asking the same question that I am: where the fuck was our leadership during the run-up to this? Credit default swaps were manageable until 2003 or so, when their growth became geometric. Yes, they were unregulated, but that doesn’t mean they were unknown. Where was Bush, or his Fed chairman, or his SEC chairman, or his Secretary of the Treasury? Of all the examples of incompetence during the BushCo nightmare, this one will dwarf all others. It is asleep-at-the-wheel leadership at an unbelievable level.
If low information voters could be made to truly understand this mess (not an easy task), Republicans would be a 10% minority for the next generation.
John also posted the link to This American Life up above.
The mindblower from This American Life: think of swaps as insurance/gambling. But here’s the thing: let’s say that you bought fire insurance on your house. Now: imagine that 200 other people also bought fire insurance on your house, i.e. betting that your house might burn down. Furthermore:
the house (i.e. the casino) is unable to cover any of these bets.
Fucking insanity.
gopher2b
Anyone that close to retirement with more than 10% of their fund in the stock market is an idiot. Greed is a killer whereever it shows up.
That guy at the end scared me. I literally just flipped a coin to decide whether to sell everything right now. Heads..sell. Tails…hold.
Tails. Dammit.
Michael D.
Fixed
NonyNony
Well, yeah. If you spook a bunch of people you can probably create a self-fulfilling prophecy like that. Yeesh, I like Kramer (not for advice, but for showmanship), but that’s a fairly irresponsible thing for him to be shouting. (I’m assuming he was shouting – Kramer always shouts.)
Not that it’s bad advice. But it’s a good way to start a panic.
This isn’t incompetence or "asleep at the wheel" or anything else. This is the basic underlying ideology of the Republican-conservative movement when it comes to economics. They don’t believe in regulation, and they believe that if you just "let the market work" then everything will be fine.
The problem with that is that "letting the market work" means that we have huge booms and huge busts. Which for theoretical economists might be a fine thing, but most of us don’t have to live in a theoretical economy, and so regulating things to keep them more even-keeled (dare I say – more "regular") is a good idea.
The Republicans are also filled to the gills with voters who hate anyone displaying a glimmer of intelligence and have put into power a group of "leaders" who act the same way. The current crop of Republicans have an orthodoxy that they stick to (it involves less regulation and lower taxes – no matter how much regulation and/or taxes we currently have), and anyone who suggests anything that deviates from orthodoxy is a "liberal" who’s opinions can be ignored.
If I sound shrill, so be it, but as someone who considered themselves a Republican up until about ’96-’98, it’s been obvious for some time that the know-nothings have taken over the party and gutted it. The current economic failure isn’t because of a lack of leadership – it’s the natural outcome of the party that the Republicans have become. I’m just sad that we have to take the rest of the world down with us in our idiocy (and that apparently the Brits were as stupid about bank regulations as we were. Idiots.)
Comrade Jake
So, how long until McCain accuses Obama of being happy that the economy is tanking?
comrade chopper
check out the wilshire. more comprehensive than the dow if you’re talking about the whole stock market (6300 companies vs 30, cap-weighted vs price-weighted). down over 5% today, dropped 10% over last week.
we’re pretty fucked.
the dow sucks as an indicator overall but the psychological effect of dropping under 10k is gonna be big. don’t even try factoring in the drop in the value of the dollar.
gopher2b
Investors that watch NBC Today for advise wouldn’t even make a dent. This is about hedge funds now and whether they need to start giving redemptions. That’s actual cash.
sparky
there are very few people in public life i can think of who i would trust absolutely, but James Grant is one of them. he called Greenspan out a long time ago.
they tell me the 1920s were fun, too. this time they managed to keep the casino open for another ten years, so i guess that’s progress.
i’ve been waiting for this to happen for a long long time. far far too many Americans bought into the get something for nothing koolaid the GOP was selling. they’ve been selling it since Ronnie, and now the bill is coming due.
i’m not sorry that the Wall Street bastards who sneered at me for 20 years are getting their comeuppance, but i am sorry that so many innocent people are going to be hurt.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
If you can spare a moment from watching the cliff diving on Wall St., keep an eye on Europe, where the banking equivalent of July 1914 is in progress as first Ireland, then Greece and now Germany are forced to offer govt. guarantees to depositors to forestall runs on their banks. The logic here is like the mobilization schedules in 1914 – whoever shows up too late to the party loses.
Best quote so far:
sparky
awaiting moderation? why, i’m the essence of moderation!
Shinobi
Time to start prepping a vegetable patch for this spring. Do you think I can survive on Just Tomatos? or should I try for potatoes?
Brian J
Did anyone happen to catch the special on Fannie and Freddie and the economic crisis last night on Fox? I saw a little of it at 10:30 or so, but I didn’t watch it all, because there’s little point. It seemed like nothing more than an attempt to tie all of our problems to Fannie and Freddie and their congressional friends, like Chris Dodd and Barack Obama. I guess I should try to watch all of it at some point, but you have to wonder if there is anything beyond propaganda to it.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
I recommend anything that gets nice and squishy when rotten. Then, when Phil Gramm and Allen Greenspan are put in public stocks, we can all have some fun.
greynoldsct00
I pulled my investments out a week ago last Friday. Broker wasn’t happy, but I’m happy that I did it. This is insane.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Here’s a question for an financial gurus lurking about: if credit default swaps are not regulated, then why were they rated by the bond rating agencies? And how in the world did the bond raters justify giving these stinking piles of shit a AAA rating?
The Grand Panjandrum
@Shinobi: With proper tenting you should be able to grow radishes and carrots through the winter (unless you live in Alaska, of course. But they have plenty of wild game and slow airplanes.)
BTW I also recommend the Money blog at NPR where Davidson also blogs about this financial disaster.
Jon H
"I guess I should try to watch all of it at some point, but you have to wonder if there is anything beyond propaganda to it."
It’s FOX. Is there any question?
They’re just trying to muddy the waters until the election.
gopher2b
i don’t think CDS are rated. The mortgage backed securities are rated.
Why? They fucked up. Whether its incompetence or fraud?
Jon H
"if credit default swaps are not regulated, then why were they rated by the bond rating agencies"
I don’t think credit default swaps were rated. They’re derivatives.
You’re probably thinking of MBSes, mortgage-backed securities, which were rated. Or maybe CDOs, Collateralized Debt Obligations.
Scrutinizer
Not just the Republicans. I saw a lot of that "let the market work" crap over at the GOS last week, led by Kos.
Jon H
"wouldn’t be disappointed to see those fatcats thoroughly and very publicly discredited."
I’m sure they’ll be comforted by their vast wealth, private jets, and country club memberships.
Public discredit means little when you effectively live completely apart from the public.
Jon H
Scrutinizer wrote:
That’s a bit different – it’s anti-bailout rhetoric, basically saying "let the free marketers get their free market, good and hard."
chopper
this is great news for mccain’s attempt to distract everyone from the shitty economy. totally, totally going to work.
Jon H
Barry Ritholtz on Cramer’s "SELL!":
"As I have said in the past, I don’t like to harp on any one person. I also don’t want to be a Cramer stalker. But DAMN if that headline doesn’t smell like a giant buy signal."
RareSanity
Markets are down…dollar is…up?
WTF?
Explain. Please.
John Cole
@RareSanity: From what I have been reading, Europe is more fucked than we are, and they have not begun to even deal with it.
One thing is clear- this was not plain old American greed. This was pretty global greed.
Walker
Yep. Just like the Great Depression. That was a world wide contraction after a massive credit binge. This will be the same.
Britain is truly fucked; they had housing run-ups that make California look like Iowa. Spain will follow suit. And Iceland is really hosed.
Things will suck for us, but we are in probably one of the best countries to weather the storm. That is, if we can get a decent administration in office.
Walker
Debt deflation. Looks like the inflationistas are going to lose this battle after all.
gopher2b
Just change the name to Funland and I guarantee things will turn around.
Bummer. I was kind of hoping that one upside of this disaster would be that in 10 years I could pay off my $100k plus student loans with pocket change.
Punchy
Will Iceland please sell some of their beautiful women to pay off their money probs? Is their a discount if I purchase 3 or more?
Jon H
If what I heard is correct, one of the problems Europe faces is that their economic systems are interlinked but they are still separate enough that each country is effectively on its own in terms of bailout money for their banking systems.
DecidedFenceSitter
Global greed is right. Too much cash (Demand) chasing too few good investments (Supply), which meant we had too much cash chasing risky investments, and then even riskier investments.
And the scary thing, there’s still a metric fuckton of money out there.
nicethugbert
So if CDSs are created Physicists, then, what are they modeled on? Stars? You know stars can form black holes when they cease to exist.
I’d like to know what the physists modeled for the collapse of this thing.
I wonder if Chalabi is involved in any of this.
Jon H
"which meant we had too much cash chasing risky investments, and then even riskier investments."
Which they thought weren’t risky because they paid the rating agencies to say "they’re safe" and also because they bought magic beans credit default swaps.
TheFountainHead
Mmmm, I love the smell of the end of the world in the morning…
Stuck in the Fun House
Heard a rumor Congress is about to pass a rescue plan, so don’t nobody worry, and please shop till yea drop.
Don’t worry, be happy! The Funhouse will be open 24/7 for the foreseeable future, or until Republicans become Dinasaurs and Sarah Palin walks amongst them.
Brachiator
@Brian J:
I didn’t see the Fox documentary, but during my morning commute, I heard conservative true believers refer to the documentary as confirming their view that the financial mess was the fault of FDR and Bill Clinton, who forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to give mortgages to illegal immigrants and black who were, by definition, unable to pay back the loans. Apparently, the propaganda push is to pretend that Fannie and Freddie were the sole authors of the financial mess.
The caller’s antidote for all this? More deregulation. It’s as if someone on the Titanic asked whether they could hit another iceberg to see if it might do some good.
Another irony was a news report that indicated that probable illegal alien homeowners (people who did not have a social security number to use for mortgage applications) actually had a lower mortgage default rate than average.
Jon H
"Another irony was a news report that indicated that probable illegal alien homeowners (people who did not have a social security number to use for mortgage applications) actually had a lower mortgage default rate than average."
Makes sense.
The usual complaint about illegal immigrants in the neighborhood is that they pack the house or apartment full of people. 20 illegal immigrants crammed into a home can afford a high mortgage payment a lot better than a couple pursuing a Martha Stewart domestic ideal.
John S.
Apparently we don’t know the half of it, John.
I just spoke with my friend who is a Credit Analyst, and he was telling me about the housing market in Spain where his wife is from. There, the majority of mortgages are ARMs despite the fact that the qualifications are far more draconian than here (minimum 20% down payment, 5 years of concsistent employment, etc.).
Think about the ramifications of that.
John S.
The mind reels at what we DO NOT regulate…
– C r e d i t Swaps
– P r o p e r t y Appraisals
– M o r t g a g e Brokers
– O i l Speculators
And these ass clowns want to make accounting rules LESS strict for banks to have to report the valuation of their assets?
Because naturally in an environment when lack of regulation of those responsible for speculation and valuation of assets, the answer is MORE OF THE SAME.
I see a situation whereby some very savvy investors sweep in and gobble up tons of real estate for fire sale prices and then make massive profits down the road, which of course is how the federal government made some good money during the Great Depression hanks to FDR.
But of course these days, the government isn’t allowed to make money…all profits must be privatized and all losses must be socialized!
Punchy
What are they?
Signed,
Not even close to an economist/finance person
TIA
Perry Como
CDSs are not rated, but they are part of the $600 trillion OTC derivatives market. The unregulated derivatives market (thanks Phil Gramm!).
As to rating agencies, they acted much like the home appraisers that were hired by mortgage brokers: "2 bedroom, one bath in the middle of the desert? Sure that’s worth $400,000. You can write the mortgage now!"
Dennis - SGMM
A lot of people have their retirement in 401K’s. Typically, the offerings are a selection of mutual funds. It’s a rare plan that offers non-stock options. Simply withdrawing your funds before your legal retirement age results in penalties and taxes that can amount to 40%.
You fucking dolt.
John S.
Well, in this country a credit crisis was partially fueled by the sub-prime market which essentially gave loans to unqualified people/properties who then got nailed by a combination of negative equity and predatory lenders. In Spain, there really isn’t a sub-prime market, but the majority of mortgage holders do not have fixed rates. So despite being less of a credit risk, the overwhelming majority of Spaniards with rates tied to the markets are going to get hammered as the credit crunch continues in earnest.
Essentially, less qualified borrowers here are ultimately going to fuck more qualified borrowers there.
gopher2b
ARMs don’t necessarily make it worse. The problem in the US is people put 0-5% down and had an ARM thinking that when the ARM expired they would have 20% equity (because the real estate market "never" goes down). When the market collapsed and they needed to refinance, no banks would give them loans to do so (in part, because they didn’t have 20% equity). Then, people cannot afford their adjusted mortgage and have to sell driving down the price of other homes.
If you started off with 20% down, you’re in far better shape.
Jon H
"It’s a rare plan that offers non-stock options"
Most plans offer at least one bond fund or similar.
gopher2b
Who runs your fund?
Get a grip. I hope your windows are bolted closed.
Jon H
"So despite being less of a credit risk, the overwhelming majority of Spaniards with rates tied to the markets are going to get hammered as the credit crunch continues in earnest."
It still shouldn’t be as bad. A big problem in the US was in big resets from what were essentially artificially low teaser rates, up to an artificially high rate – especially if the loan was some crazy interest-only loan, or a tandem loan where the down payment comes from a SECOND mortgage on the same house, taken at the same time.
An adjustment from a ‘normal’ rate with to a slightly higher rate will be much less of a shock than a jump from irrationally low payments to irrationally high payments.
John S.
Of course, but then again it depends on how much those 95% to 105% borrowers cause the rates for those people that put more money down to go through the roof – especially when that 20% down payment may have already evaporated.
So who knows what options are even going to be left for those people that thought they did the right thing.
Perry Como
We also need to give Greenspan a big round of applause. By keeping interest rates at 1% in the post-dotcom crash, he reduced the yield of US Treasuries and institutional investors had to turn to other, riskier investments to meet their long term obligations. This presented the opportunity for the CDO bubble where people were willing to buy instruments that were not quite as safe as treasuries, but still safe enough. Once the market for prime mortgage CDOs dried up, the bundlers turned to Alt-A and subprime. Which meant there was a larger market for those types of loans, so banks would lower lending standards and ta da! The
ArisKleptocrats!John S.
From what I understand, though, the amount of the ‘jump’ is determined by the European equivalent of LIBOR, which I imagine is just as venerable to the impact of our giant shitpile.
Brachiator
@Jon H:
It’s worse than that. I linked to a story from the Times of London on this previously. Some highlights:
The German situation indicates how interlinked everything is. Germany was trying to rescue a national bank with exposure to bad Irish loans:
In short, the French were trying for a unified European Community approach to a bailout, which has been undermined by individual countries trying to do their own thing, even though failing banks have their tentacles in mortgages throughout the EU.
Good times.
gopher2b
I understood the post above to mean that everyone (in Spain) had to put at least 20% down though? If that is true, you wouldn’t see much of a drop in home prices and the few people that would need to sell because their monthly was too high could without taking a huge hit.
Dennis - SGMM
I apologize for the name calling. Friends of mine who are financially unsophisticated followed the best advice they knew and they’re fucked. I wouldn’t characterize them as idiots. Your characterizing them as idiots made me angry. That’s not an excuse, that’s me being human.
I’ve gone through the Sixties, SERE school, a year in the Mekong Delta, gum surgery and raising an autistic child. My windows are wide open, thank you.
TenguPhule
How long until the India method of dealing with CEOs comes to America?
Place your bets, folks.
Jon H
John S. wrote: "From what I understand, though, the amount of the ‘jump’ is determined by the European equivalent of LIBOR, which I imagine is just as venerable to the impact of our giant shitpile."
True, but I still think people with 20% down probably got better mortgages with better terms than the freakazoid loans that were written here.
There’s nothing new about ARMs, after all, and they often make sense.
The problem with the American ARMs is that so many of them were ‘adjustable’ like a sideshow contortionist, rather than in the more predictable sense of just being linked to fluctuations in LIBOR.
Credit card rates are also pegged to LIBOR, but the rate change that hurts people most is the excessive and arbitrary one the bank imposes at the drop of a hat.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
It gets even better. Many of the European banks are more highly leveraged than their US counterparts. And some of them are now known to have been evading capital requirements by covering themselves with credit default swaps issued by…
wait..
wait for it…
… AIG !
Napoleon
The "L" in LIBOR stands for London, England. So I am going to go out on a limb and say LIBOR is the European equivalent of LIBOR.
Joshua
I just saw this on TPM:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ak5RqnboIhG0&refer=news
Hank Paulson pulls a Brownie and puts some 35 year old Goldman Sachs kid on the bailout program.
Notorious P.A.T.
Thank you very much for posting those videos. I’d never even heard of credit default swaps until now.
SGEW
A passing thought:
It strikes me as most propitious* that this is happening before the election.
Try and imagine how history would judge President Obama if this happened on his watch**. The right-wingers would never shut up about how Pres. Obama "caused" the economic collapse.
Instead of this being blamed on a Dem administration, it helps Obama’s electoral chances, the fault will (hopefully) be placed squarely upon Bush and the Republicans, and Obama will reap the kudos*** when (if?) the economy rebounds in 2010 or 11.
I’m tellin’ you: Obama’s got some kinda deal w/ the devil or something****. He’s been way, way too lucky: nearly all of his political opponents somehow seem to always shoot their own feet off (see, e.g., Jack Ryan’s extraordinary (and hilarious) political collapse, Sen. Clinton’s bizarre election "strategy," Alan Keyes (’nuff said), Gov. Palin (way too much said), etc.), or the political environment somehow tilts in the direction that most benefits him. It’s uncanny, I tells ya.
*For a given value of "propitious," of course. It would be much better if it didn’t happen at all, but what’re ya gonna do?
**Yeah, yeah, never mind how it would be unfair: history is rarely "fair."
***Id.
**Or he’s the Chosen One, blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Noodly Appendages. Whatever.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Perry Como:
Did Greenspan do something to your mailserver, too? Because it’s fuxxored right now. We’ve been trying to get in touch with you but since your email addy is hosted on that server . . .
John S.
I understand what LIBOR is, but I don’t think that’s what my friend was referring to.
The UK maintains autonomy — while it is a part of Europe, it is not a part of anything having to do with financial or currency markets in the strictest sense, although obviously it is all interconnected.
I think my friend was referring to ICAP, which is a European competitor to LIBOR.
Notorious P.A.T.
Go for potatoes. Nothing you can grow has more nutrition right out of the ground.
The Other Steve
It was at 14,000… it’s now below 10,000. He’s saying it’s going to hit 8,000?
Possible, I suppose.
Napoleon
Since before Bush was reelected I have told everyone that would listen that Iraq, torture, the war on terror, domestic surveillance and all the other f-ups of the Republicans were in my opinion not even their biggest f-up, but that I felt their biggest screw up was truly trashing our economy with current account deficits, budget deficits, lack of oversight, lack of industrial policy, lack of energy policy etc, etc. I also would say that if I was right I hoped at least it would hit on his watch. The only thing that made me feel better about the Kerry loss was I was pretty sure that would mean Bush would be left holding the bag when everything went south.
And you know the biggest blow has yet to come, when other countries quit financing our deficits and move to the Euro as the worlds reserve currency.
Brachiator
@Dennis – SGMM:
Sorry. This is wrong on many levels. Plan options can include bonds and money market funds, as well as stock funds or individual stocks. As people get near retirement age, many choose to decrease the proportion of stocks, to reduce volatility (hah!).
Early withdrawal penalties can be imposed if you withdraw funds before you reach age 59 1/2, not retirement age. The total impact of penalties depends mainly on your tax bracket. But the penalty for early withdrawal by itself at the fed level is 10%, and 2% for California.
This is the short version. I deal with this stuff for a living, but anyone who needs more detailed info on this should consult a tax professional. Note that the people in your HR department, including those who administer retirement plans are not tax professionals, and generally do not give accurate advice.
gwangung
Hmm. Is that even possible, given the panic going down now in Europe?
Kamishna ya Watu Xenos
Getting out of stocks is not the same thing as getting out of a 401(k). If a 401(k) does not have a money market or stable rate fund to go into as a way of avoiding market risk, it is a lousy 401(k).
Maybe you can get some more safety if you are allowed to roll over to an IRA – IRAs can be invested in FDIC insured CDs. The right IRA trustee can even set up a way to put gold coins in an IRA.
Jon H
Joshua wrote: "Hank Paulson pulls a Brownie and puts some 35 year old Goldman Sachs kid on the bailout program."
The kid is a former NASA aerospace engineer who worked on the Hubble’s successor telescope, with BS and MS in engineering from U of Illinois-Urbana, in addition to the requisite Wharton degree.
I take a small amount of comfort in that.
Perry Como
@tripletee (formerly tBone):
I shouldn’t have invested in those mod_jk default swaps. now I’m getting hammered by all the defaults. I’m working on it. Expect a flood when it’s fixed.
Napoleon
Well quiting financing our debts sure is. As long as other places are going to hell at the same time it makes it unlikely they move out of dollars as the reserve currency now, but its hard to imagine that places like China and the Saudis aren’t taking a hard look at moving to something else (yen?).
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@Perry Como: just let us know where to send the $700 billion check.
Punchy
Dow getting absolutely destroyed at the moment…