For those of you who missed it:
The funny thing is that I know that my old friends who I think have gone completely insane (and they think I have gone around the bend, as well) would, in years past, have been really moved by Powell’s statements. Today, I am reasonably sure they will simply dismiss him. Makes me wonder how much of those long conversations we had ten years ago when we were all good Republicans was just justification of the tribalism, rather than a real discussion of politics. There are members of my family with whom I can not even talk about politics anymore- ten years ago, when Powell was one of the ‘good guys,’ they would have heeded his words. Now, of course, he is just a traitor to the GOP cause.
The simple fact for me is that anyone who can look at Sarah Palin and say she is ready to be VP or President simply has no sense or integrity, because they are either wholly misguided or completely full of shit.
…and a racist!
Poor fellow is obviously blinded by his long-repressed secret race-hatred.
And he had us fooled for so long!
I always used to wonder how the Soviets could just
photoshopairbrush people who had fallen from favor out of official (and well-known) photographs without anyone there seemingly noticing or caring. I think I’m starting to understand now.
That’s why they say you should never discuss Religion or Politics. Mark Twain said:
When do they start calling him a Mooslim?
Well, I’d be very interested to hear my father’s opinion on this. He always had tremendous respect for Powell. Of course that was before he transmogrifed from a reasonable middle of the road democrat who voted for Reagan and Clinton, and thought Bush II a complete failure to a completely insane right winger who thinks Sarah Palin is as qualified as Barack Hussein Obama as he says these days. So now I suspect in his mind Powell is just another n****r, though he’d never admit it. Instead he’ll be glad to discuss at length how "welfare queens" have destroyed the economy and that BHO is a terrorist loving, socialist. In other words they are just a bunch of…… well you know. Just a slice of the racism that was barely shielded under those 60 something life long blue collar guys out there. I have shut off political communication with him completely. Luckily we still talk about everything else.
Is it coz ‘e is black?
Seriously. I dont understand your media at all.
After all the hero build up for this guy by the GOP, even against the evidence ( his not actually very good record in office) as soon as he calls for Obama suddenly his opinion is worthless and he’s just another black guy.
How are your journalists allowing this without laughing out loud at the Rethugs?
It could be a topic in an of itself. Members of my family haven’t talked to each other in years. Some just kept repeating and repeating what Limbaugh said yesterday until no one wants to talk to them any more. I know a father that has insinuated his own son has terrorist sympathies because divisiveness is so ingrained in him now he doesn’t even realize he does it any more.
@bedlam UK: How are your journalists allowing this without laughing out loud at the Rethugs?
You’re assuming that journalists and Rethugs are two separate groups.
I have to wonder if Powell, in his day, was much more than a token to Republicans (see, I’m not prejudiced; some of my best generals are negroes).
But we are making progress. The same shrill squawking that the right is making about Obama was made throughout America when blacks first broke through the color barrier in professional sports, when they fought for their rights not to be separate but unequal in their access to public facilities, when they started to get lead roles in our entertainment media, and so on.
Give the nation time to grow accustomed to a black man in the big chair and a black woman as first lady and maybe in eight years many will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
The haters won’t change their stripes, but their kids might.
As a fellow former good Republican, I think your tribalism point is right on the mark. The political battle is not so much "good" v. "evil" as "us" v. "them."
Checking around some random forums, I saw one person say that Powell was never a real Republican in the first place. Elsewhere I saw someone describe his endorsement as ‘disingenuous’ and that his comment about the Muslim soldier meant nothing because there aren’t many Muslims in the army other than for a few translators.
So in the end people believe what they want to and will do their best to ignore reality.
Of course he supports Obama. He’s a Scary Negro himself.
I bet the Crips, Bloods, and Ganster Disciples endorse Obama. Who’s Ice Cube pimping? It’s gotta be Obama!
I’m in a similar boat with some members of my family. (Although I’ve always been firmly on the left.)
I was on the blower yesterday with my archly-conservative oil biz father (who lives outside Houston), and was tempted to bring up the Houston Chron’s endorsement of Barack. As much as I would’ve liked to rub his nose in it I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I’ll be visiting in November after the election and will have a chance to do it then.
The last time I visited was the day after the ’04 republican convention in NYC. My wife, daughter, and I were flying from La Guardia to Houston. The plane was crammed with delegates from TX. Lots of red white ‘n’ blue spandex, cowboy hats (park your horse in Long Term, pard?), and inappropriate eyeshadow. It was a long flight.
Best overheard comment: "Tavern on the Green is over-rated. I didn’t think it was that good!"
There has been talk on the libertarian John Galt is Teh God sites about what to do to prepare themselves for the United States of Socialism hurtling down the timeline. Some suggested that they all move to one of the more successful, seemingly self-supprorting states and secede from the Union. Texas has been muchly-mentioned.
I say fine, Go. Annex Mexico and call your new petro state Texico. You can probably even get your soon-to-be-unemployed Boy King to run it for you. Only trouble is TX doesn’t actually have any oil reserves to speak of. Only companies that exploit other countries rescources, and without the militiary and financial backing of all those Yankee socialists, how do y’all expect to steal other people’s Texas tea?
You want your Lone Star back? Take it. Buh-bye.
"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason himself into in the first place."
South of I-10
I can no longer discuss the election with my parents. I got into a delightful fight with them on Tuesday. Again, two seemingly rational intelligent people, who are for some reason buying into all the bullshit that is being thrown out there about Obama. I’ve come to the conclusion that they believe it because they want to – they know better.
"Conservatism" for me has been so poisoned that the description of two conservatives sitting down and being moved by Powell’s words is completely alien and baffling. I actually had to reread the sentence, because it just didn’t make sense the first time.
The Powell endorsement is drawing a clear line in the sand to separate out the racists from the conservatives.
I’m not a Powell fan post United Nations WMD presentation, but it is illuminating to see folks twisting and torquing their positions in an attempt to suddenly try to explain why the very individual they lionized for the Powell Doctrine suddenly can’t be trusted…..because he’s black. I never trusted him because he was a Republican. Asshats come in all shapes and sizes and sexes.
Got my Mississippi custom car tag for my Hyundai from the DMV yesterday. THATONE. Already had OBAMA08 on the Mazda. Pics later. Golf now.
I haven’t seen any of my hardcore Republican aunts and uncles in the past few months, so I am not sure of their reaction to what’s going on. The last I heard was that one uncle who works with one of my brothers was joking about leaving the country or something if Obama wins. His wife, probably more conservative than him, talked about how she didn’t like the "two bozos running for president on the Democratic side" nor McCain back in April, and I’m genuinely curious about how she’d react to Palin.
They absolutely require a close race in order to get viewers. Viewers mean money, money means bonuses, bonuses buy vacation homes.
Ergo, it’s in their greedy self-interest to push and pull each candidate in a manner that puts them as close together as possible. In effect, they’re fake, dishonest, and corrupt. Hence, the explosion of blogs.
The Grand Panjandrum
My problem with Palin is that we have a 40+ year old who has apparently NEVER spent any time trying to understand the world outside of Alaska. And passing her off as an "expert" on energy issues is–I will be charitable–laughable. Sarah Palin’s weaknesses have been magnified by the McCain campaigns unwillingness to allow the press access to her and have her hold a real press conference. Had she performed poorly before the entire press corps it could have been easily dismissed, but her dismal performance during an interview with ONE reporter (Couric) reinforced the notion that she’s got some homework to do. The (mistaken or not) preception that she’s a lightweight was cast in stone after those initial clips were aired. It will be hard to shake it in the remaining days.
While the Right flails about and tries to justify HER the rest of the country moved on because choosing her was more about "Country First" McCain than it was about Governor Palin. I have little doubt that had she been given several months to prepare for these interviews she would have been fine. Unfortunately, it was a craven political stunt by the War Hero and his failed campaign. Sure Palin excited "the base" but the moderate Republicans and Independents have recoiled in horror. How could a man of John McCain’s supposed resume make such a blatantly obvious mistake? I’ll bet TZ could give us more insight. But it was TZ who boldly put money on McCain running an awful and failed campaign.
McCain’s convention bounce was almost entirely due to "the base" being excited by the choice of Governor Palin. As time has gone on to expose this fraud moderates have moved away from the Republican ticket and are now moving toward Obama. With only two weeks before the final decision of who will be our next President is made the endorsement is a crushing blow to McCain. As others have noted it probably won’t change a lot of minds but it does give Obama a win for the news cycle. At this moment time is a currency more valuable than money. You can always raise more money, but you can’t buy more time.
McCain is still running a primary campaign.
So Colin Powell was wrong about the WMD’s in Iraq and leftists everywhere found him no longer credible, but the minute he endorses Nobama, Powell is the epitome of credibility — is that the size of it?
Inconsistency, thy name is liberalism.
Its funny how the republican brain works. It can completely ignore the words of a formerly beloved republican general, and focus like a laser beam on the color of his skin and conclude that skin color and the words are related.
Me and my father had a falling out over this. I really try hard not to talk politics, but he pushed me too far. This twofer of getting to blame minorities for the financial crises while ducking any responsibility is just way over the top. The wingers are living in la-la land. Party of personal responsibility my ass.
What sucks is he is a good guy, but as he is getting older he is just reveling in his right wingness and racism like a dog rolling in shit.
These party leaders that stir this shit up need to pay. If you’re ideas are so great then sell them in the information free market. But if you have to lie steal and cheat to push your agenda, then that agenda must not be very good..
jake 4 that 1
Yep. Attack, attack, attack. It doesn’t matter who refuses to bow down to Queen Jadis and her right-hand dwarf. Be he a man repsected and admired by many, or just some guy on the street, they are both vile traitors and must be harried to the ends of the earth!
And this, boys and girls, is one reason of thousands we might witness a lanslide victory for which the term "landslide victory" is a gross understatement.
Also, I gotta say I feel for you who are falling out with your families over this. I’ve had set-tos with them over a number of things, but the only time politics are an issue is when I express a slightly more conservative opinion.
At this point, you can get all your news from FOX and then you can be as insulated as you want.
But, you start talking non-stop about whose a "real" Republican and a "real" American and you can sit there and watch your formerly "big tent" shrink and shrink and shrink. And the folks left just cling to each other just that much more fiercely, causing all but the die-hards to bail.
In my family, we’re having a MUP effect. My fiercely Republican uncle (oooh scary taxes) is voting Obama this year–the first time he’s voted for a Democrat in more than 30 years. You can thank George W. Bush.
The answer is simple. George Orr had an effective dream that changed Powell into a bad guy since the dawn of time.
(I watched The Lathe of Heaven last week. The book is much better than the PBS version, but it’s still a favorite).
What I find most despicable is the hypocrisy of the right wing pundits who don’t own up to the racism that will prevent Obama from receiving many white votes, yet say that the reason Powell has endorsed Obama is solely due to teh black.
I’m not a fan of Powell– He’s a DC type, ‘the guy on the committee wearing the uniform’. But what he actually said about McCain and Obama rings true, and is probably not too far from what he actually thinks. A mortal sin, if ever there was one.
@Tim Fuller: In Mississippi? There’s ballsy, and then there’s what you did. I put the odds that your car is vandalized sometime in the next 3 weeks (with the likely chance after the election) at about 90%
I could care less about the Powell endorsement. His performance before the UN took away every bit of credibility he ever had, but I suppose this isn’t aimed at me. If it makes a few moderates feel better about voting Obama, I guess it’s worth it.
Listen moron! Colin Powel can be wrong about one thing and right about another at different points in time. Maybe your idiot brain cannot figure out that people are not always wrong, not are they always right. Digest this for a bit, or if you want something simpler go listen to a Sarah Palin speech.
common sense first and braindead jingosim last.
As for Powell, I still don’t care for him that much. He severely tarnished is reputation by all of his work in promoting the 2nd Iraq war. It’s good that he is trying to make some amends and keep his party from spiraling further into crazy-land, but he let the current administration use him like toilet paper, and that stain will be a hard one to wipe out.
(In a related note, I think one of the less examined disasters to the Republican party is how Bush’s administration has managed to destroy the reputation of so many members of it’s OWN party when they attempted to take one for the team, or put the breaks on a particularly stupid idea. A lot of those people with wrecked careers would be the ones to lead the Republican party out of the wilderness that it seems to be heading to.)
The problem with Powell is he still has not admitted the damage he’s done in supporting Bush, especially the war in Iraq.
He knew he was committing a fraud on the US public and the world when he sold the war in Iraq. Without his direct participation, if he had honorably resigned, the war would never have happened. He abdicated his responsibility to protect the nation and to serve the constitution to instead serve political power and his political party.
So either he is a man who abandoned his honor, or never had it in the first place.
It is, from a cool political view, a very good thing that he’s endorsing Obama. He still has some influence in the portions of the Republican party where there may still be hope for reality.
But the man should get, and deserves no respect, and should spend the rest of his life in a private hell, with the cries of all those who died in Iraq echoing in his ears.
It’s freakin SCARY how many peeps’ dads are all under the same fucked-up mind-control. Now it’s infected my mom, and there’s no reversing them. I will choose not to go there until Thanksgiving, at which point I will rub it in their faces (respectfully, of course)
jake 4 that 1
@Nicholas Weaver: This may be one reason more intelligent fReichtards are so pissed. They can’t attack him for his role in the Iraqi invasion without admitting that the invasion was wrong.
I used to be the only liberal in the family but they’ve mostly all come around, except for my daughter. She’s still rebelling against me and the only way she could do it was to become a rabid Republican. As far as I know she’s voting for McCain basically to piss me off. We haven’t discussed politics in a long time.
RoonieRoo, dontcha know
I am not the audience for the Powell endorsement. I have little respect for him but I doubt he really cares as I’m not the one he is talking to.
We too have the problem of lost family relations over politics. I just don’t talk to my sister at all anymore because she is literally brainwashed by Fox. She says she is a Republican but she honestly doesn’t have any grasp on what the modern Republican platform is. She is really just a Limbaugh/Fox news adherent. I can’t even call her a Republican.
Fortunately she is the only one in our family so the rest of the family can function and when she is there, we can find ways to interact with her as a group. If we have the need to talk about current events (not just politics but basic current events) we can leave someone to "babysit" her so we can go talk like adults. Even non-political current events have been affected by Fox news in her brain.
The tragedy of all this is that she is a very intelligent veterinarian that owns her own clinic and business. I would love to be able to ask her about the jaw-dropping endorsement of Obama by the Bryan/College-Station paper The Eagle but I know better now. It really is tragic .
I don’t have to wonder; it was really clear he was. But not so much for his race as because he was a card carrying member of the Trusted Sane Few of the Bushies. They treated him as fully disposable when they sent him into the UN to push their lies. They knew they were lies and they knew a TSF had to deliver it or they’d be ignored. Also they knew that whoever delivered that message would take a fall for it. Powell was a good soldier who followed orders from his commander in chief. Turns out he loyalty was betrayed big time. Truly sad, as I really used to respect him, but he waited till after he was a tool to draw the line.
I vote for "full of shit"!
Yup. I thought I was cynical, but watching the right wing fawn over her, after keeping up the pretense Obama was inexperienced, was stomach turning. I wonder if this is the bottom, or if we’re going to see even more examples of putting party before all.
That’s actually true.
I have to wonder if Powell, in his day, was much more than a token to Republicans
Yes, I think this best explains the arc his career has taken. First: Useful black Republican — love!
Then: No-longer-useful black Republican — acceptance; some shouts of RINO!
Now: Treacherous black Republican — hate! slime! destroy!
Colin Powell only endorsed half of Obama, bitches!
Well, I have a question for John (or anyone else who cares to enlighten me), since he was a former Republican, and made the following statement:
For myself, I’m not seeing how she is any less qualified than George W. Bush was.
Anyone care to list the differences?
Bush was only pretending to be a religious whacko. Big difference right there.
That Palin pick may come back to bite McCain in the ass. While some good Christian wingnuts may be praying for a Bradley effect, there could be an offsetting Stupid effect, a Bush in a Skirt effect.
My Republican dad surprised the hell out of me last weekend saying for the first time he may not vote, or he might just write in someone. It took him six years, but he finally came to the realization Bush is simply an incompetent dumbshit, nothing more, and we can’t afford more incompetent dumbshits. But he wanted to think that was just an aberration for his party.
He was fine voting McCain, but now he sees an incompetent spunky dumbshit in Palin. Given McCain’s age and heath history, he just doesn’t like the thought there’s an increased chance Palin could be prez.
Have heard similar from some of the people I work with. Depends on where they fall on the Wingnutty Scale. Of course she’s a fan favorite with the drool cup set, but not so much with others.
I respectfully disagree. The Bush Admin was entirely committed to invading Iraq and would have invaded against any resistance short of Russia or China explicitly threating to the nuke us into the Stone Age. At least, I hope that would have put some breaks on that. The movers and shakers of the Administration were looking for ways to invade Iraq on January 21, 2001.
On a related note, I actually think that the people behind the scenes truly believed that there was some form of WMD program hidden in Iraq. Yes, the intelligence was cherry-picked and massaged. Yes, they tortured the data until it confessed. But I’m certain that they believed as an article of faith that Saddam Hussein had something hiddenthat would justify the whole thing to the American people. Cheney’s Office of Special Plans, then took any piece of raw data that supported their worldview and dismissed anything that didn’t because they already "knew" that their were WMD in Iraq. They were perfectly aware that the case that they were making was BS, but they "knew" that they’d be justified when they found the WMD , anyway.
I’m not saying that their faith excuses anything, but I still think that they believed that they’d find some kind of WMD program that would serve as political cover for the invasion.
My immediate supervisor is a former Marine and ‘Nam vet. He is voting for McCain and there’s nothing I can imagine that will swerve him from this.
However, he told me this morning that Powell’s endorsement made him feel a lot better about the prospect of Obama’s winning. As a typical low- to moderate-info (or high-disinfo) voter with a military background, he sees Powell as a hero — which in a way, Powell was during the first Gulf War: He and Schwartzkopf used every trick in the book to keep then-SecDef Cheney (who put TV shows and the advice of his civilian advisers over that of his generals) from doing asinine things like, say, dropping the 82nd Airborne into Baghdad, hundreds of miles from any supply lines or reinforcements.
Cheney also tussled with Powell over Powell’s wanting the Army to ditch its tactical nuclear weapons, something that would not be done until 2002.
So Powell isn’t all bad or all good. He’s a guy who tried his best to rein in Cheney during the first Gulf War, then tried his best to undo the total control the wingnuts gained in the GOP, but failed. I suspect that by the time Bush the Dumber tapped him to be the sane window dressing on the insane PNAC foreign policy, he didn’t have much fight left in him.
His endorsing Obama is, in a very real sense, his revenge on the wingnuts and the religio-racist righties who kept him off the ticket in 1996 (even though a ticket with him on it was the only one that could have beaten Bill Clinton that year). If Powell can’t get people to vote for Obama, he can at the very least get them to accept him as president, which will make Obama’s job (not to mention his survival prospects) a bit better.
RoonieRoo, dontcha know
As somebody from Texas who paid attention to the time that W was Governor, you really cannot compare W’s lack of experience to Palin’s.
The Governor of Texas is slightly different than other governors in the union. It is our Lt. Gov that has the real power. W was fortunate to be under Bob Bullock as our Lt. Gov.
Why does that make a difference? In my opinion, it is not really experience but mentoring/training that he received from Bullock that counted.
Now, I don’t frankly think that means he had more experience and I still don’t think he had enough to be President, as we have had proved to us in spades the last 8 years.
I’m just saying that W’s background as Governor of Texas is really an apples to oranges comparison for Palin as Alaska’s governor. .
Hey, I live in Bryan! Nice to know that there’s a fellow traveler within a few miles.
Comrade The Moar You Know
@Atanarjuat: Actually, Asshat, you have a good point here. I find the sudden lionization of Powell, who in this case embodies the very definition of the "stopped clock is right twice a day", revolting. Powell’s long history of carrying water for the GOP, regardless of how heinous the lie he’s being asked to back up, is truly disgusting. From My Lai to his WMD presentation in 2003, there has been no GOP lie that Powell hasn’t actively worked to aid and abet.
And Obama shouldn’t be looking to him as an adviser. He would be far better suited to a role as a defendant in the Iraq War Crimes trials, along with his BFF’s Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush.
Powell is such a "company man," I have to wonder what he’s up to. I’m surprised that Comrade The Moar You Know is the only person on this thread to have mentioned My Lai at all, you know, the massacre in Vietnam that Colin Powell helped cover up by writing a letter stating that rumours of mistreatment of the Vietnamese by the Americans were false, and buy the conventional wisdom, please. Between that and his command performance at the UN, being Reagan’s Nat’l Security Advisor, and Bush the Elder’s Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he’s been lying in the service of power for a long, long time. So long, in fact, I have to wonder what the fuck he’s up to now.
jake 4 that 1
@dms: Let’s just say John McPOW managed to find a GOPer dumber than Dubya.
The woman is two brain cells away from Bachman Syndrome.
Also, they have the attention span of gnats.
As far as the family thing goes, I’m the only liberal (well the only proto-socialist, really) in my family. We usually don’t talk politics at family gatherings, mostly because I can get somewhat, um, animated when they start prattling about Rush, Glen Beck, and O’Reilly.
I was talking to my 83-year old Dad yesterday though—he asked me to pull a straight Republican ticket as a favor to him. I laughed and said, "Anything for you but that, Dad." "Why not?" he asked. I replied "Because you raised me up better than that, Dad."
I got a laugh, but as I thought about it, I wondered at what had happened with him. Through the 60’s here in NC, Dad would argue against segregation, and held that "blacks were as good as whites", often arguing against Mom and the Alabama wing of our family. He actively fought for integrating the church we used to go to. Dad still will cheerfully give a homeless guy the last penny in his pocket, he still visits sick friends and church members in the hospital, and is one of the most caring people I know. He was always more a centrist Democrat than an liberal, but consistently voted Democrat up until Reagan. He and I used to talk politics when I was a kid, and he more than anyone else put me on the road to being a liberal Dem.
It’s frustrating. He can’t explain his support for the Thugs; when he and I talk together and we get away from political cant, he’s still the same guy I used to talk with when I was a kid. When we’re with the rest of the family, he doesn’t join in on the jingoism, the Palin love, and the rest of it. When others in the family demean Obama, he gets uncomfortable, but he doesn’t say anything.
I’ve given up on the others—they were always culture warriors and jingoists—but I miss his support.
With the caveat from RonnieRoo, above (re: Lt. Gov.’s peculiar executive power in TX), George W. Bush did govern a gigantic state (i.e., many sq. miles and many people, contra Alaska) reasonably proficiently.
Bush also has an actual academic background (an M.B.A. from Yale does impress people, despite how easy it was for W. to get), managed businesses (manage them into the ground, but still), and headed a very successful primary and national campaign.
As to the religious wackiness, Bush’s born-again evangelicalism was much more coached in vague rhetoric, mushy code words, and conciliatory language: contrast with Palin’s upfront End Times, witch-hunting, tongues-speaking, batshittery.
And, finally (and importantly), Bush has the gift of appearing much smarter than he actually is through the use of glib bullshit. We can see through it with great ease, now, but back in 2000 most people thought he was at least relatively intelligent. Meanwhile, every time Palin opens her mouth our collective I.Q.s dip three or four points.
Oh. And W.’s dad was president. Family members in government counts as a "qualification" for some people (see, also, Clinton, Hillary).
Not to mention the population of Texas is 24 million and the population of Alaska is 600k. My podunk, sparsely populated upstate county has 600k. I wouldn’t sell our county executive as presidential material.
So, basically, the argument is that Bush had the "appearance" of more experience.
The Moar You Know
Then you are not looking very hard. Bush may be on the wrong side of every issue but at least he knows what the issues are.
Palin, not so much. She thinks that she can do what she’s always done – get by on a few coy winks, some charm to those above her. Naked bullying to those who aren’t. It’s now painfully obvious that she doesn’t give a fuck about anything but herself and her career, and that is why so many Americans – including Republicans – have turned off to her.
That’s one part of it – and an important part, too. If Palin had pulled off the Couric interview (by pure bullshit, mind you – her worst failure was the inability to lob back even the most basic softball answers) she wouldn’t appear to be as unqualified as she is. Appearances are all most voters have to go on.
But, importantly, Bush was actually more "qualified," in his way. See above.
This is the single most undeniable statement of the entire 2008 campaign, and the single biggest reason I do not want McCain to win. I can understand someone who is willing to take the chance that McCain will live for at least 4 years, but anyone who suggests that Palin is the least bit qualified for VP or President is simply gobsmackingly stupid or a liar.
For six years, Bush was governor of a large state. Before that, he was in big business. Palin, by contrast, was governor of a small state for two years. Before that, she was mayor of a town of 9,000. Sure, the governor of Texas may be relatively weak, but I doubt it’s weak enough to make the post completely pointless.
Sometimes I feel a little dishonest, or maybe just confused, to compare McCain/Palin unfavorably to Bush. After saying that Bush was the worst president ever for the past eight years, my little Jiminy Broder says, isn’t it hard to believe that the Republicans could select a pair of even worse candidates? If they’re that bad, then maybe Bush wasn’t all that horrible after all? This isn’t one of those times, though. I don’t think experience is the most important thing of all, but this particular comparison is almost as simple as "six is greater than two." For all that Bush was relatively inexperienced, Palin has come out of nowhere.
Oh, come on. You have to admit that she is the least bit qualified. She did (more or less) competently run a township, and didn’t totally fuck up the Alaskan governorship. As far as we can tell, she’s at least as qualified as, say, Ted Stevens or Michelle Bachmann (for what that’s worth – which is very very little, but it is worth something).
We’ll regret these words (no one could be stupider than
Reagan Quayle BushPalin!) once the G.O.P. raises an even more imbecilic mouth-breather to a national position.
We have yet to see a true Moran Candidate. It will be glorious.
After butchering the budget to the level of firing the little old ladies running the city museum, she came up with 90k to hire a city manager to do her job for her. Delegation is a form of competence, I suppose, but given that the city at the time was 5100 people, seems more straightforward to just hire the other woman to be mayor and save 120k in mayorial salary. She strategically left herself with little to actually do in terms of work.
Tough job that, figuring out how to spend all that oil money (Alaska gets to keep the largest percent of resource extraction fees of all the states) and all those federal tax dollars Ted Stevens keeps sending north. For every dollar Alaska sends to the fed, they get nearly two back. I’d prefer a governor from a state with a real budget to meet.
She wasn’t doing that job either. First Dude was creepily over-involved.
See? That there itself is a "qualification." Delegation you can believe in!
I can haz Ronnie Raygun?
"Makes me wonder how much of those long conversations we had ten years ago when we were all good Republicans was just justification of the tribalism, rather than a real discussion of politics. "
One hundred percent. Go forth, and wonder no more.
Grand Moff Texan
There is at least one member of my family who might as well be dead, as far as I’m concerned. I don’t need bigots in my life.
Cut them out.
Same thing with my dad. He was always a bit conservative (though I bet he voted for Truman), but since he started mainlining Fox Noise all day he’s completely unreasonable on politics. If I was a Fox watcher, I bet I could tell which programs he watched just by which bullshit he spouts. When I was home last, he said that Katie Couric asked Palin a bunch of gotcha questions. I cut off political talk right there, realizing that we couldn’t discuss politics rationally. My wife had to talk my nominally Democrat mother-in-law out of watching Fox News. She was starting to say how much she liked Cindy McCain and didn’t like Michelle Obama. Fortunately it looks like my wife caught it in time.
I spent the entire summer not speaking to my only sibling after he hung up on me when I said that I didn’t think it would be a bad thing to let the Bush tax cuts expire, and was willing to pay more in taxes. He then sent me a text message telling me that I’m so naive. And that he hoped that if Obama was elected, that I get what I deserve. A depression where I lose my job, my house and my horse. He and his wife are in the military (both Majors) and will be making well over $500,000/year when they get out in the next 3 years or so. He’s so concerned that he’ll have to pay more in taxes, its all about his pocket book.
Of course, he called a truce and said that we just shouldn’t talk politics anymore, right before his birthday.
Early on, during the primaries, my uncle was a Giuliani supporter. As a New Yorker, I tried and tried to tell him how horrible and awful Rudy is, but it just didn’t work. He just saw Rudy on Fox and thought: "Now that guy, he’s a strong guy – he’ll clean up the world like he cleaned up N.Y.C.!*" Wouldn’t hear a word against him.
Luckily, once Obama became the nominee, everyone on that side of the family backed him fully. The fact that they’re all in Hawaii probably helped ;)
*My uncle visited New York once in the seventies, and then once in 2005. He loved what Rudy did to Times Square.
King of Pants
@Atanarjuat: Hey there, Trolly McTrollerstein! I’ll take ya on. I’m going to speak for myself; if any other commenters want to agree or not, that’s up to them.
See, the thing of it is that Powell wrecked his credibility when he was the good soldier for George Bush. Up until that point, he had been a respectable government sort — kiss-ass, never stirring anything in order to get his stars or Chief of Staff status, but all in all an alright chap. More concerned about process than politics, which is all right with me. See, here’s the difference between liberals and — well, I’d write "conservatives," but "brain-dead tribalists" is probably more apt for you: even if liberals disagree with someone’s political views, we can still respect them. I didn’t agree with Powell about everything, but I respected him. Why? Because he knew what he was talking about.
This is why I was so disheartened about the UN presentation. In fact, Powell’s involvement in that was the only part that gave me pause about my opposition to the Iraq War: I implicitly trusted him not to bullshit, and so when it was revealed that he was basically carrying water for a bunch of jackasses, yeah, the hammer came down.
See, here’s the rub, though: even with that, Powell is still about ten billion times more credible than anyone representing "conservatism" today. And what’s more, he actually makes cogent, moving points and attempts to use reasoned arguments, as opposed to vomiting forth a bunch of Limbaugh-injected bile that you gratefully swallowed because your own life is such a tragic wreck that you have to troll a blog in order to stave off suicide for another day.
So is he forgiven? Why, of course not. But I appreciate what he said, and his points — especially regarding the Muslim Iraqi vet who died in service — are really moving. Furthermore, what’s apparent throughout his statement is that he’s concerned about the body politic of the United States, the secular religion of this country, a religion that plankton like yourself can’t even detect because it involves more than typing "Country First" into a text box, a state of being that John McCain is hellbent on destroying (finishing the work of good ol’ Dubya) because he ain’t gonna win.
And in doing so, he’s made himself in your mind just to be another nigger. Because that’s all you have left, isn’t it? The fact that goddamnit, your life is utter shit, but you’ve still got white privilege. It’s more than a bit sad. I’d pity you, if you were worth pity. In reality, you’re just another barnacle clinging to a toxic hull that’s about to nestle at the bottom of the ocean. Enjoy the life you’ve chosen for yourself. You deserve it.
The Moar You Know
She left a township of 5000 people $20 million dollars in debt, so no. Can someone explain to me how that is even possible?
The Moar You Know
So do I, but feeding all of New York’s homeless into woodchippers and then selling the resulting protein paste to schools for their lunch programs – while laudable – betrays a lack of compassion for the less fortunate that I don’t feel comfortable with in a president.
But yeah, great work on Times Square, Rudy.
while I agree with your larger point, I’d take serious issue with the notion that Bush governed Texas "reasonably efficiently." Unless you think he also managed Arbusto "reasonably efficiently" in which case I’ll be needing to quote me some Princess Bride… ;)
@The Moar You Know: Don’t get me started. I worked with homeless organizations during Rudy’s mayoralty. And I don’t even like what he did to Times Square (fucking Disney . . .).
Yes, yes. They’re incompetent jackasses, I know. That’s why I put in all the "more or less" and "reasonably" and "relatively" prevarications. I’m talking about what the "common wisdom" is, not what we high information blog readers think*.
You must admit that the bar for "reasonably, relatively efficiently running an office or company, more or less" is pretty low here in America. We’re talking about Republicans, for fuck’s sake. As in, Ted fucking Stevens is a "relatively competent" Senator as far as the G.O.P. is concerned.
Under this metric, Ronald Reagan > Dan Quayle > George W. Bush > Sarah Palin. And they’ll dig up someone who makes Sarah Palin look like Al Gore. That’s all I’m saying.
*Uppity elitism warning! Pardon me.
I recommend reading Roy Edroso on what Giuliani did to Times Square (and the whole city for that matter). There’s something to be said for seedy but authentic. I know the New York I see in ’70s cop shows looks like a more interesting place than it is now. Easy for me to say since I don’t live there, I know.
What I and the rest of you terrorist loving liberals and traitors to the true Republican cause think of Powell isn’t relevant. What matters is how it will affect McPOW’s campaign:
well, if you were interested in an actual exchange of ideas rather than trollery, you’d realize that few if any here have ever granted Powell much credibility, especially after he allowed himself to be played for a fool at the UN and never, ever spoke out against the march to war which he surely knew was justified by a sham and was probably not going to turn out well.
Powell is a useful idiot to me, and nothing else. He’s only good for propaganda value.
I really feel for all of you who have been personally affected by the GOP-inspired divisiveness which has afflicted this country since Rove started pursuing his ‘50% + 1 is good enough’ strategy. Much the same thing has happened to me and I flat out refuse to engage in political discussions with family members whom I otherwise care about very much. It’s very sad and as much as I would like to see Bush/Cheney pay for their crimes, I hope that Obama can find a way to bring this country back to a place where we can once again respectfully disagree with one another and engage in thoughtful debates with those on the right, rather than being forced to fight the rampant misogyny, disinformation, slander and racism which has hollowed out the mind of the modern conservative and caused it to atrophy.
Hear hear. I can’t agree more.
I know more than a couple folks like this. "Crashing economy? Two failed wars? OBL still on the loose? Doubled national debt in only 8 years? Housing market meltdown? Katrina? Rampant corruption? Trashing our Constitutional rights? GOP incompetence in governing everywhere you look? WHO FUCKING CARES!!! I might have to pay a bit more taxes! Fuck everyone and everything else!!!"
same story here with my folks, who are otherwise wonderful people. I spent some of my summer on vacation with them and was forced to endure daily doses of Faux Noise. It’s like the 2 Minutes’ Hate spread over 24 hours, 7 days a week. It is Radio Rwanda for 21st century cable television, proof of the force for evil mass media can be. I fucking hate Faux Noise and Roger Ailes/Rupert Murdoch with the intensity of a thousand suns, not just because of political differences but mostly because what their poison has done to people, including innocent bystanders. It’s like an intellectual cluster bomb.
yeah, asking someone what publications they read, that’s a real ‘gotcha’. She should have asked her ‘fair’ questions like, you know, ‘Reagan: great president or Greatest Leader Of All Time In The Entire Universe?’, ‘How much do you support our troops? Do you love them even more than Obama hates them?’
Yep, same here. My dad always hated the Clintons for whatever reason, but he was never a hard-core partisan. In fact, a couple of years ago he surprised the hell out of me by saying he’d vote for Obama if he ran.
Then he semi-retired and had time to watch Fox News. We can still talk politics in short bursts, but only because I work very, very hard to control my temper. When he started repeating Fox’s ACORN talking points to me a week or so ago, it was a true test of my resolve.
The way I look at it, though, is those lying fucks win by sowing division. I’ll be damned if I let them ruin my relationship with my Dad, who in every other respect is a great guy. I’ll keep my temper and keep patiently explaining the facts in the hopes that something will eventually get through.