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… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

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A Hand

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Could someone hand me a link to the debunking of that Philip Berg nonsense regarding the Obama birth certificate crap (here is the video). There is so much of this crap floating out there that I can not find the links, yet I am beseiged by another close friend wanting to “explain” the video. This is the “illuminati” video from the other day. You would think the name would be a clue.

These right-wing email lists are killing me.

Reader Interactions

83Comments

  2. 2.

    PsiFighter37

    Can’t you just link to Markos’ post that has the birth certificate photo?

    Whatever, in 14 days, these ratfuckers will be shut the hell up. Or maybe not, but then they can drag the Republican Party off the edge of the cliff that will turn them into a regional political party, at best.

  6. 6.

    Far Left American Hater Incertus

    They’re like the hardcore truthers who think that Bush ordered a missile strike on the Pentagon and pulled the people off that flight and had them shot and buried in the ANWR. Nothing you say will convince them otherwise, and I doubt it’s worth trying.

  9. 9.

    jim

    Very glad to be of service.

    Here’s the confirmation that Obama’s birth certificate is legit, from the extremely conservative World News Daily:

    worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

    Also it’s at Snopes:
    snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

    And here’s factcheck.org with their hands on Obama’s actual birth certificate:

    factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    Incidentally, loved your appearance on Bill Maher’s show a few weeks back. You’re doing great things, being a reasonable conservative. Thanks, and please keep it up.

  12. 12.

    Mr. Stuck

    The only ones I can provide are oddly enough made by AJ strata and he does a pretty good job with the debunking.

    Mr. Cole I somehow screwed up and got two comments with two different emails sent to spam using ajax editor. Could you set them free so I can use them to comment with again.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    Speaking of birth certificates and other bits of nonsense, I posted this link a couple threads back. Agent Flowbee has thrown in the towel on the whitey tape:

    None of my three main sources on who told me about the existence of a video recording of Michelle Obama making disparaging comments about white folks have backed off. Two of these sources are Democrats and are journalists. They were not trying to sabotage the Obama campaign. They were passing on something they believed to be true. The fact that my third source, a person who lives on the West Coast and is a Republican, has no ties whatsoever to the other two but told the same story persuaded me this “tape” exists. My Republican friend tells me that the McCain campaign intervened and requested the tape not be used.

    Because, of course, the McCain campaign is renowned for its stubborn insistence on avoiding random smears.

    But fear not, birth certificate gate is Not Dead Yet:

    And Mr. Martin is in the news. The Obama team came after him as a rabid anti-Semite. Let me see if I have this right, Barack Obama hangs out with Louis Farrakhan and Rashid Khalidi and Andy Martin is the anti-Semite? Anyway, Andy is in Hawaii and many are speculating that his investigative efforts there are the real reason that Barack has suspended his campaign and headed for Honolulu. There is a nifty thread on Andy’s efforts over at the Hillary Clinton forum (read here). I don’t know if there is any fire beneath the smoke Andy is putting up, but we will know by next Tuesday.

    -dms

  15. 15.

    Comrade Jake

    In all seriousness, arguing with this kind of nonsense is akin to debating whether or not the moon landing was a hoax.

    You have pictures of the birth certificate you say? How do you know it hasn’t been forged?
     
    If the moon landing happened, how come Neil Armstrong won’t answer questions about it?
     
    If Obama was really born in Hawaii, why haven’t any witnesses come forward?
     
    If we really landed on the Moon, why aren’t there any stars in the pictures?
     
    If Obama was really born in Hawaii, how come his grandmother won’t do any interviews?
     

    You get the point I hope. The best counter to this sort of thing is to ask people what could someone show them that would convince them, beyond any doubt, that Obama was born in the USA. If they’re honest, they’ll admit there’s nothing that will satisfy them. The more evidence they’re shown that they’re wrong, the crazier the explanations become.

  16. 16.

    yet another jeff

    Yeah, I was just posting the AJ Strata collection for someone on another board a few minutes ago. Synchronicity…

    Because, you know, factcheck.org is funded by the Annenbergs…goddamn, people I thought were relatively sane internet friends are all starting to go Black Hole Sun about Obama (my personal visual for The Great Mental Unraveling). This is good too, I think I came to it from one of the Strata posts, a debunking of Techdude himself.

  19. 19.

    KRK

    You’ve been given a lot of links on the birth certificate question. (No clue why "the state of Hawaii says it’s legit" isn’t sufficient for some people.)

    The blog Yes to Democracy has been following the Berg case pretty closely and if you go back through the posts there, there are several giving specifics on what Berg’s claims are and procedurally what is happening with the lawsuit (and why it’s going nowhere).

  23. 23.

    Comrade Jake

    Incidentally, loved your appearance on Bill Maher’s show a few weeks back. You’re doing great things, being a reasonable conservative. Thanks, and please keep it up.

    Cole was on Maher’s show? Really? I must have missed that one.

  24. 24.

    rreay

    @DougJ:

    Kuhl (R-NY) says.

    That little shit.

    We live about a mile out of Kuhl’s district. Just a couple of nights ago we were driving and saw a Kuhl yard sign and I had to explain my expletives and tell my wife why I hate him without knowing anything about how he votes. [Dick explains why]

    Fuck, now I have to find another $50 for Eric Massa.

  33. 33.

    rreay

    @dick weathers:
    Agreed, Dinosaur is good but I can never justify an hour wait for dinner.

    Sticky Lips is almost as good, the dino sauces are a bit better, but there’s never more than a 15 minute wait.

  35. 35.

    Montysano

    My wife decided to "engage" with some wingnut relatives and associates, to attempt to "show them the light" as it were, so our inbox has been jammed lately (I really wish she hadn’t done it). But I watched a few minutes of the Illuminati film. Berg’s claim, if I understand it, has to do with Obama losing his natural-born status by nature of something that was done when he registered for school in Indonesia (I think). After a couple of minutes, my eyes glazed over and I hit the delete button.

    Given the skill which Obama’s campaign has shown thus far, I can’t believe that they let some ticking time bomb go unattended. Meh.

    Me? I’m more concerned these days with how to make a living, what with the smoking economic wreckage left by BushCo. At the small business where I’ve worked for 17 years, our revenues have gone off a cliff.

  36. 36.

    r€nato

    The kerning on those ‘photos’ of Obama’s ‘birth certificate’ looks highly suspicious.

    (some had to say it)

  37. 37.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    Incidentally, loved your appearance on Bill Maher’s show a few weeks back. You’re doing great things, being a reasonable conservative. Thanks, and please keep it up.

    Cole was on Maher’s show? Really? I must have missed that one.

    News to me too. Is there video of this somewhere?

  40. 40.

    Dan Munz

    Hi everyone!

    People who are determined to keep us divided start these rumors about Barack’s birth certificate to manipulate us into thinking he is not an American citizen.

    The fact is Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.

    Learn the facts and see the birth certificate for yourself:

    my.barackobama.com/birthcertificate

    Together we can make sure these negative and divisive attacks don’t affect this election.

    Thanks for your help.

  45. 45.

    Walker

    I have nothing else to add other than God do I miss Dinosaur BBQ.

    I live in Ithaca, but I am a born and raised Carolinian. Dinosaur is okay. I would definitely put them on par with the stuff you can find in Memphis, provided you like Memphis BBQ. But I have given up on pulled pork in this region. Nobody in NY knows how to cook pork worth a damn. Fortunately, I smoke my own.

    Back on topic, I am obviously not in Kuhl’s district, but I am right next door. The 22nd is an awesome bit of gerrymandering to make sure that we do not infect the rest of the Fingerlakes region.

  46. 46.

    Ed in NJ

    I don’t think John is looking for the FactCheck stuff about Obama’s birth certificate. What is flying around the wingnutosphere is the supposed court order for Obama to produce his birth certificate within 3 days, based on a lawsuit filed by Berg. Ed Morrissey at Hot Air, of all people, debunked it as a document prepared by the plaintiff in the event the suit was successful, which is wasn’t.

    You can check out the Hot Air post here:

    Hot Air

  48. 48.

    Martin

    The answer is that the birth certificate is irrelevant. In order to be a US citizen you either need to be born in the US or you need to be born of a parent that is a citizen.

    Where is the proof that lily-white Ann Dunham of Kansas isn’t a US citizen?

    That’s the burden of proof.

  49. 49.

    RML

    That video is further proof that the Republicans are not fit to lead this country anymore. What a bunch of ignorant wingnuts.

  50. 50.

    DougJ

    I live in Ithaca, but I am a born and raised Carolinian. Dinosaur is okay. I would definitely put them on par with the stuff you can find in Memphis, provided you like Memphis BBQ. But I have given up on pulled pork in this region. Nobody in NY knows how to cook pork worth a damn. Fortunately, I smoke my own.

    I know. I used to live in North Georgia.

    I have to say, though, that as much as I love Carolina pulled pork, the Memphis ribs are possibly even better.

  51. 51.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    What I want to know is how Berg can state that if someone was naturally born in the U.S. and moved to Indonesia for a while that it automatically disqualifies his being naturally born in the U.S.

    The logic in that is just astounding to me.

  52. 52.

    Ed Marshall

    I’d tell them he was born in a pool of blood in the middle of a pentagram, and conceived from the undead sperm of Hassan-i Sabbah and the undead eggs of Elizabeth Bathory in a cave in the Negev Desert.

    Who gives a piss what those people think?

  53. 53.

    BH-Buck

    It’s hypocritical of a group to question Obama’s country of birth, when it’s a well-known fact that McCain was born outside the borders of the US.

    I’m not calling into question whether McCain meets the criteria of being American-born. I’m just saying it’s highly suspect for the pro-idiot crowd to point fingers at Barack over this.

  54. 54.

    Montysano

    What I want to know is how Berg can state that if someone was naturally born in the U.S. and moved to Indonesia for a while that it automatically disqualifies his being naturally born in the U.S.

    His contention is that, at the time, Indonesia didn’t allow dual citizenship. In order to go to school, you had to be an Indonesian citizen, Obama’s stepfather essentially renounced Barack’s natural-born status by enrolling him in Indonesian school.

    Anything else you want to know, you’ll have to find it yourself, because I’m not going back over……."there".

  55. 55.

    janine

    I think that once you get into the birth certificate thing, you’re already conceding too much crazy. Ann Dunham was born and raised in America. Done. Obama could have been born anywhere in the world and be an American citizen.

  56. 56.

    Common Sense

    I don’t know about any Sully appearance on Maher recently where he stole Cole’s stuff, but there was a time about a year ago where he clearly cribbed a few of BJ’s snarkier lines. Don’t remember the exact quote, but it was something to do with asking a Republican whether they’d be willing to get an abortion if it would prevent a terrorist attack.

  57. 57.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    I would have to ditto on the ditto to go over to Yes to Democracy, Christina has some wonderful bloggers (Ames and Patrick come to mind) who have thoroughly debunked the Berg lawsuit, (even better than I could and I am "in the trade" so to speak) Bottom line is this, this puppy will never survive a 12(b)6 motion (failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted). Having said that, I really wish the judge would not dismiss the case, cause I can’t wait to see Berg try to get Texasdarlin, Techdude, Polaric, and Judah on the stand to testify it would be hilarious.
    "So Ms Texasdarlin, could you state your qualifications under the rules of evidence that would qualify you to testify in this matter" *********************** crickets……………..

  58. 58.

    yet another jeff

    The saddest part is the comments in the linked sites…even the ones I posted…people are actually saying things like "wow, what’s going to happen when Obama gets deported"

    Yeah, and what happens when we find out McCAIN is actually two kids, one sitting on the other’s shoulders, wearing their dad’s suit….

  60. 60.

    r€nato

    His contention is that, at the time, Indonesia didn’t allow dual citizenship. In order to go to school, you had to be an Indonesian citizen, Obama’s stepfather essentially renounced Barack’s natural-born status by enrolling him in Indonesian school.

    One cannot lose one’s US citizenship by implication. It takes an overt act of renunciation.

    By Berg’s "logic", when the children of undocumented Mexicans attend US schools, they ‘essentially renounce’ their Mexican citizenship and become Americans.

  61. 61.

    Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s

    Yes, all this nonsense coming from the party that wanted to amend the Constitution so Gov Arnold could be President.

  62. 62.

    Halffasthero

    Dinosaur is okay. I would definitely put them on par with the stuff you can find in Memphis, provided you like Memphis BBQ.

    I have to say, though, that as much as I love Carolina pulled pork, the Memphis ribs are possibly even better.

    Damn, this subject keeps coming up and never fails to make me hungry.

    And the best is in Memphis. Rendezvous, Blue City Cafe and Neely’s (not in the airport).

  63. 63.

    DougJ

    And the best is in Memphis. Rendezvous, Blue City Cafe and Neely’s

    I’m dying to try all those places sometime. All I need is an excuse to visit Memphis.

  65. 65.

    Halffasthero

    typo – Blues City Cafe – on Beale street.

    I’m dying to try all those places sometime. All I need is an excuse to visit Memphis.

    If you are flying anywhere on Northwest (now Delta), Memphis is a hub. If you are stuck on a lengthy layover, grab a cab to Beale. Rendezvous and BSC are not too far away from each other. Stumbling distance to/from Rum Boogie (blues bar) if I recall. : )

  68. 68.

    dick weathers

    @rreay:

    I’m with you there. The wait is friggin’ brutal. God help you if there’s an Amerks game. I’ve got nothing against Sticky Lips but I always enjoyed Beale St. a little bit more. Less of a wait too.

  69. 69.

    Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s

    In a perfect world, a black limo would pull up alongside Berg…Obama would get out and STAPLE a copy of his certificate of live birth onto Berg’s forehead.

    I’ll pay any fines levied against Senator Obama.

  70. 70.

    catskill

    Dang!
    I read all the comments to see if I should post my own response and JasonF posted it first! With only four more comments left… I thought I was going to add something new. Dang internet.

    (If you missed it, check JasonF’s comment 10/21 @ 10:46pm)

  71. 71.

    LiberalTarian

    Dude. I was accosted by a Republican today when I came out of the bike shop.

    This lady loves, LOVES Sarah Palin, because Palin is a real Christian. All the wingnut stuff was on the tip of her tongue! I looked at her, and said, "how is anything they are saying Christian??" And she said, "In the Old Testiment … blah blah blah …." These guys have thrown out Christ for heaven’s sake.

    After about 10 minutes of concentrated wingnut (which, I swear to God, I did not solicit, it sought me out) I finally got on my bike and rode off and she was still telling me the world was going to end if I voted for Obama. Zoiks.

    God help us. I cannot wait for this election to be over. I used to just get panhandled all the time–I drew them like flies according to my hipster friends. Now I’m getting tackled in the street by Republicans. Geez.

  72. 72.

    DougJ

    I’ve got nothing against Sticky Lips but I always enjoyed Beale St. a little bit more. Less of a wait too.

    Sticky Lips is much better than Beale St. I’m a Beale St. regular because it’s near the bars that I go to, whereas Sticky Lips is in the middle of nowhere, but the food is much better at Sticky Lips.

    Beale St. has a great ambiance, though.

  73. 73.

    DougJ

    These guys have thrown out Christ for heaven’s sake.

    That’s the essence of wingnut religion. Face it, Christ was a pacifistic socialist, if not a communist.

    Not to mention the fact the guy was a community organizer.

  75. 75.

    Zuzu's Petals

    Here is the statement from the PUMA who actually went down and found the Honolulu newspaper birth announcement.

    Evidently the PUMA page has gone away, but you may find the statement cached someplace. Here it’s reproduced at a wingnut website:

    From the woman who found the birth announcement:

    ————–

    Lori // July 22, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Hi, I’ve talked to the Department of Vital Records and the Honolulu Advertiser.In 1961, the hospitals would take their new birth certificates to Vital Records. At the end of the week, Vital Records would post a sheet that for the news paper to pick up that contained births, deaths, marriages and divorces. The Advertiser routinely printed this information in their Sunday edition. This is not a paid announcement that his grandmother could arrange. This is information that comes from Vital Records – we know this because this particular section reflects those records. They didn’t have a provision for paid, one sentence announcement that would be included in the Vital Records. At the time, if a child was born outside a hospital, the family would have 30 days to apply for a birth certificate and Vital Records would expect to see prenatal care records, or pediatrician records of the first check up, etc. They’d also want the notarized statement from the mid-wife. Of course, they can apply later but that would noted as a different kind of birth certificate. I think TD has already addressed that. This information was received by Vital Records the first week of his birth = that suggests the hospital.

    Next, the announcement is from Sunday, August 13th and Obama was born on Friday, August 4th. Hospitals usually don’t take birth certificate information the first couple days to avoid changes. So it was likely filled out on the 4th or so, as hospital stays were usually 3 – 5 days at the time. Lastly, having worked in a newborn nursery in college, hospitals don’t ask for documentation. If mom says she’s married, that’s what they write. They have no authority to question her statement.

    In Honolulu at the time, paid birth announcements weren’t in vogue. Frequently families would post one year announcements that included pictures from the party, etc. I haven’t checked to see if that exists.

    I hope that finishes clearing this up.

    Texas Darlin’ cache

    Just One Minute comment

  76. 76.

    Mwangangi

    Who would’ve thought that Monroe County was so well represented. I went to R.I.T. and I don’t miss Henrietta or the clowns who intentionally say ‘Chili’ in a contrived manner.
     
    Go Sabres.

  77. 77.

    Kewalo

    In case anyone is still interested, from the State Dept.

    F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

    travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

  78. 78.

    mclaren

    A really great general resource for combating all these lies is Obama’s website http://www.fightthesmears.com.

    Yes, Obama knew Rove would try to Swiftboat him. Unlike Kerry, Obama and his campaign staff were proactive. They set up this debunking website many months ago. Incidentally, the Obama campaign staff based this website on scientific research of how phony rumours spread. Turns out if you both disprove the rumour and explain why the disinformation arose, that kills it.

  79. 79.

    Montysano

    And the best (pork) is in Memphis. Rendezvous, Blue City Cafe and Neely’s

    Memphis is fine and all, but here’s the thing about BBQ; you never know where you’re gonna find the good stuff. During my bicycle commute, in a dicey part of town, I discovered an old black guy smoking ribs and serving folks (probably illegal).

    Does he know how to smoke ribs? Yes he surely does.

  80. 80.

    Geeno

    Wow – lot’s of Rochesterians representing. I’m probably posting too late for notice. Grew up in Barber Connable’s old district back when he would get both the D and R endorsements, I live in Louise Slaughter’s district now.
    Dinosaur is good, love the Big Ass Pork plate, but I don’t really regard it as great BBQ; it’s a just a really good sauce for pork. Now Jeeter’s beef ribs back in the day….. hmmmmm.

  82. 82.

    jim

    Yah, you guys are right; I confused Juan Cole with Andrew Sullivan.

    My mistake; mea culpa. You both deserve great credit.

    It’s a good thing I’m not a reporter, or I’d be able to turn this mistake into a career in cable punditry.

  83. 83.

    jim

    What’s interesting to me through all of this, is how wilfully blind these guys are to **McCain** not actually being born in the US – he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which is only technically US property.

    And we don’t "really" know he was born there. Maybe he was purchased from rabid Latino anarchists, so he could be programmed by expatriated communists from the IWW!! And he’s never said he *wasn’t*!! How about that, McCain campaign? How about that??

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