Supporters get letters from Yes On 8.
The letter from Yes on 8 came by certified mail, demanding at least $10,000. Jim Abbot knows exactly why he’s being targeted – his business gave $10,000 to a group called Equality California, which supports No on Prop 9.
Jim says nearly 25 percent of his staff is gay.
“We wanted to support their freedom to marry,” he said.
The letter says if Jim doesn’t give an equal donation to Yes on 8, the name of his company will be published. It reads in part, “It is only fair for Proposition 8 supporters to know which companies and organizations oppose traditional marriage.
“I feel like it’s blackmail, and as you can imagine, real estate business has been tough lately and to have someone come at you like this… it’s very distressing,” he said.
Yes on 8 confirms they sent around 30 companies the letter.
Extortion is very Christian.
c’mere. yeah. you. that’s some nice company you gots there. real nice. be a shame if i had to out you as a buncha fags, eh?
(did we lose the ability to edit our comments?)
Mormons are not a Christian religion.
Nice little business you got here. Be a shame if something were to happen to it, knowwhatImean?
Stupid fuckers. No one is opposing traditional marriage but I guess they knew enough not to say "We’ll expose you as a company that minds its own fucking business and lets people get on with their lives."
This reminds me of the whatever the fuck group in Colorado that wanted to gather the names of gays and lesbians so they could be exposed. If I recall correctly a lot of people told them to shut the fuck up and after the usual whining that they just wanted to protect the children they backed down. Or maybe it was because they kept getting calls reporting members of their group.
Good for Mr. Abbott, calling their bluff. I predict this attempt at extortion:
will backfire amusingly when one of the No8 assholes is caught in a bathroom stall with two ruminants and a chicken.
Seriously though, what’s the line between blackmail and a donation request? And if the Privacy Patrol is so concerned shouldn’t they first expose the company name and then ask them to redeem themselves with a contribution?
@cleek: Yes we did and I posted before coffee so most of my comment makes no sense.
This is getting serious, they’re targeting the "Red Wigglers" account!
Stand fast, Big Guy, stand fast.
Well you know those people know what’s best for teh gays.
I hope that story got a whole shitload of coverage all over CA.
Kali's Little Sister
Fantastic! Now California can be Utah-of-the-Coast!
The Mother Of All Market Crashes about to happen.
Just so you’re aware. Dow already maxed out pre-market loss and suspended. Hello, 4.01K
The AP and MarketWatch have picked it up. From the AP:
He should give them $10 bucks and point out the group is taking money from teh eebil ghey.
Ooh noe. hwo kan eye fixx mi missppelings won?
Good thing I’m broke and have nothing in the market, then.
Pass the popcorn.
The Mormons are all "if we can’t marry the way we want we’ll be damned if we let the gays marry".
Far Left American Hater Incertus
I’m still trying to figure out the logic here–always a dangerous proposition when dealing with wingnuttia. Companies gave money to defeat Prop 8, which means they probably saw some benefit in doing so, financial, social, whatever. Why do the Yes on 8 people think that said companies would then be fearful of being exposed on this?
Alright. That is the last god damned straw.
Where do I go to donate to the good guys?
Hmm. That’s some interesting phrasing. Because I doubt few Prop 8 opponents actually do NOT support marriage "between a man and a woman". They just want more people to get married.
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Sorry Mike to derail your thread, but this market shit is just incredible. I’ve followed the markets for years but have never ever seen such an ominous sign for complete capitulation.
And from the No, Seriously? I Wouldn’t Have Ever Guessed File:
Read that last sentence again. Unfuckingbelievable.
It’s Black Friday, paint the devil on the wall
OT: Former Republican MA governor William Weld has endorsed Obama.
He previously endorsed Mittens.
John, go here.
/shakes angry fist at blockquotes
@Punchy: We’ve had the equivalent of the 87 crash how many days this month.
I’m curious whether the 1100 point circuit-breaker will kick in today.
i’m reminded of a bit of snark from the dry-as-toast william s. burroughs:
Market looks up to me. About 150 points.
Wait. I lied. Down 400.
>>I’m curious whether the 1100 point circuit-breaker will kick in today.
My money’s on 9:35.
Brick Oven Bill
I was criticized here for stating that there are very real differences between Christian nations and Islamic states. People were wrong to criticize my comment.
An additional example of the difference is that Christian nations debate granting state benefits to homosexuals. Islamic nations get around the debate and public expense by hanging homosexuals from cranes.
The hanging practice acts to reduce the burden of homosexual spouses on the treasury, and promotes traditional family values. It does, however, present a challenge to the equal protection clause, and gives us another example of the differences between the two belief systems.
>>I was criticized here for stating that there are very real differences between Christian nations and Islamic states. People were wrong to criticize my comment.
No one cares what you think.
Zifnab – that is yesterday’s results.
John, there is also Equality California’s site.
"Alright. That is the last god damned straw.
Where do I go to donate to the good guys?"
You go here:
I just dropped a grand on the No On 8 campaign, myself. I’m just waiting ’til one of their goons shows up on my door with an axe handle, demanding some protection money.
I’ve also, incidentally, been volunteering for the No On 8 campaign, once a week, since July. If live in California and you can join me and do likewise, please start by contacting your nearest "No On 8" office. Just click here…
…and call the No On 8 office closest to you.
Culver City, CA
p.s.: I just wanna note that I consider this particular development to be an interesting sign of desperation on the Yes On 8 side. If they’re so hard up for money that they’re trying to shake down hard-core No On 8 supporters for cash, that’s a potential indicator that their own donation pool may be running dry. If I read that right, it’s a very good omen for marriage equality in November.
If you put the fucking Mormons in charge, they will be crucifying homosexuals in no time. (Probably blacks too)
I see them on the corner with signs during rush hour saying "Prop 8 = Religious Freedom" and "Prop 8 = Parent Rights" What a bunch of fucking liars.
Whether it’s blackmail or not depends, I think, on the nature of the threat.
I suspect that, since the information was publicly available to the Yes on 8 [censored by Department of Homeland Security]s, they might argue that the threat didn’t amount to more than disseminating information that was already available to anyone who bothered to check.
That might be a legal defense; I’d have to double-check my old law casebooks to be sure.
Morally, however, it categorizes the Yes on 8 [censored by the Department of Homeland Security]s as [censored to prevent summoning of universe-eating eldritch abominations]s.
Well, it did take Mormons until 1978 to let black men be priests, so it’ll be 2508 before they decide that gays are people too.
Crumping you can believe in.
Candidates dance it out, bitch.
Just wow. Isn’t that an attempt at extortion? There are no real negative consequences to declining their invitation to be intimidated if Abbot is willing to accept that some people who disagree with his political choice may not give him their business, and he in turn will have a self-selected customer base. Part of living in a free country so pfft; at least it’s a decision to deal with somebody based on (potentially) a more conscious/informed basis than a liking for the color of their hair or hatred of the model of their car. But the intent to intimidate that drove those letters – in the absence of ethical behavior is there any legal foundation for pressing charges of aggravated assault, at the very least? Not that the letter of the law exists to enforce anything more than barely-civil discourse, if that. But talk about slimy tactics.
Firstly, you seem to be confusing "Christian nations" and "Islamic nations" with First World Countries and Third World Countries. China – an "atheist nation" – will hang you from a crane (or just disappear you) for a variety of offenses of which sexual deviancy is just one. There are a number of African nations that were converted to Christianity in the 1900s that currently condone the practice of burning people as witches. And the very Christian nation of Mexico currently needs to be fenced off from the very Christian nation of the United States. This has nothing to dow with homosexuals. Large swaths of the American population just have a terrible hatred/fear of Mexicans.
Meanwhile, it took a "liberal" Supreme Court to overturn the very Christian state of Texas in its policy of arresting and imprisoning same sex couples caught in various acts of intimacy. Likewise, the Christian nation of Serbia has a very violent history when it comes to dealing with Jews, Arabs, and Gays.
But, you know… Christian states are better because – Hey! Look! A terrorist!
@kommrade jakevich: I imposed the "no posting or emailing before FULLY caffinated" rule on myself years ago and every single time I violate my rule I am horrified and ashamed of what comes out of my sleepy fingers.
This is extortion.
This is a felony.
At long last, these scum reveal themselves for the criminals that they are.
Along the lines of the market:
Greenspan: no one could have anticipated self-regulation of the banking and financial industry could have ill effects.
"Whether it’s blackmail or not depends, I think, on the nature of the threat."
Uh, they demanded money to *not* do something. That pretty much makes it blackmail, regardless of how public the information was.
If even one of these letters crossed state lines, then we can get the DOJ involved with some tasty RICO and other misuse of mail federal crimes, in addition to state law crimes. Of course, not the Bush DOJ, but the statute of limitations will extend into an Obama administration, which hopefully would want to look closely into the matter
About a year ago I listened to maybe an hour of some Christian radio station and whatever issue they were discussing and in the report they were doing on some issue the reporter labeled some party that did not support some issue as opposing it, even though it was very clear from the report that the party had not take any kind of position at all. In there world view anyone not 100% on board was actively undercutting them.
Brick Oven Bill wrote: "An additional example of the difference is that Christian nations debate granting state benefits to homosexuals. Islamic nations get around the debate and public expense by hanging homosexuals from cranes."
Christian nations in Africa and the Caribbean are known for violent legal and extra-legal punishments against gays.
Right on brother!
Christianity has it’s own nasty activities both historically and currently.
I think the distinction that really needs to be made is between democratic/non-democratic and secular/theocratic. For the most par democratic nations are democratic and secular, though the US likes to flirt with breaking up that combination. But the reason why "Christian nations" cited by the moron above don’t hang homosexuals from cranes isn’t because of their Xtian values (as you note). Rather its because the secular government within which they exist won’t let them hang homosexuals from cranes. Secularism took the teeth out of Xtian abuse (now its just verbal) and that is the only reason why Xtians don’t hang homosexuals from cranes.
Apparently no one in the Bush administration could anticipate a damn thing.
Kinda makes you wonder what in the hell they got paid for?
Oh yeah, dividing the country and wrecking the economy.
Hell of a job Bushie!
These self-righteous assferrets can go get cornholed. Who in the fuck are the Mormons to be complaining about marriage? So it’s ok for some dude with magic underwear to have a harem at his disposal but heaven forbid two people of the same sex getting hitched?
As I have said before, every single Mormon I have dealt with (and living in the west there are a lot of them to deal with) has been a Jack Mormon, Mormons in name only. I have seen them involved in extramarital affairs, cheating the elderly out of their money for shady ‘investments’ and other things that their religion frowns on.
The same goes for people of other religions, while there are good people in the church, there are a lot of assferrets who operate out of these same churches because they impart an aura of respectability on someone who would otherwise be properly considered a lowlife scumbag. That and the churches tend to be loaded with suckers who will believe anything, which is handy if you are a scammer. Toss a little religion into a business deal and they can milk the cows dry.
I hope the law finds some way of cracking down on these assholes, or at least that the people of California vote no on 8 and kill it outright. I think these assferrets need to focus on what makes them the shitheads that they are. Quit worrying about everyone else and take care of their own problems (of which I am sure they have plenty of).
Of course they were also hanging Jews and blacks from trees down here in the South for a long time, but that was back when the South was thoroughly Islamic.
Bob or Whooping?
On my way to a meeting with a smile on face. Thanks.
You know, it has been exactly 10 years since I came out of the closet. It’s been about that long since I felt suicidal too. Hmmm… And the GOP has made same-sex marriage bans one of their bread and butter issues that entire time.
People think I’m a Democrat, but it’s simply a default position. There is no second choice for me. I’m deeply saddened that this isn’t a big enough issue for straight people to get behind, and I understand that there are other, bigger, priorities. Still, I’m fucking sick of my enemies targeting me and my friends not caring enough to have my back. It sounds harsh, but I can’t wait for the 65+ year old cohort to start dying off and stop voting traditional marriage.
Meanwhile, while Americans are alarmed by the fact that John McCain wants to tax their health benefits as income, I’m already being taxed on my health benefits. They’re through my partner and thanks to DOMA, can’t be treated the same way spousal benefits are treated. Not that the "tax fairness" crowd gives a rats ass.
I saw this on the local San Francisco news last night. The Mormons admitted to sending out the letters. They claimed that some "No on 8" people picketed a San Diego hotel that donated $100,000.00 to the Ban on Gay Marriage initiative so they were just doing the same thing.
Typical wingnut logic. A single incident of something gives them the right to turn full-tilt toxic and up the ante %1000 and claim that it’s the "same thing" because so-and-so already did it.
Which is totally weird, because one of their talking points is that if you let gays marry, than (gasp, shock, horror) polygamy is next.
Tim in SF
There’s a lot of money on their side when the supporters, in full on God crazy mode, do shit like this:
"Pam and Rick Patterson have always followed teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and tried to live within their means. He drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic to his job at Intel. She is a stay-at home mom who makes most of the family meals and bakes her own bread. The couple, who have five sons between the ages of 3 and 12, live in a comfortable but modest three-bedroom home in Folsom. It’s a traditional lifestyle they believe is now at risk. That’s why the Pattersons recently made a huge financial sacrifice – they withdrew $50,000 from their savings and donated it to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign, the ballot measure that seeks to ban same-sex marriage."
Tim in SF
(link for that story got dropped from my post for some reason. Here it is: http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1308945.html )
Can someone explain the idea of how allowing Gay Marriage will ruin ‘normal’ marriage?
Im a straight married male but I have no care what-so-ever if teh gays want to marry. Gratz on finding love in my opinion.
How is homo-marriage ruining hetro-marriage??
Just curious ( but not bi-curious thanks lol )
@bedlam UK: You bring up a good question there. Unfortunately, the "it’s bad for traditional marriage" is the end of the answer. And politically, they are never asked to elaborate on it. They might as well explain their opposition as being "just cuz."
It’s weird, you know. I thought gay people were a minority of the human population. But the religious apparently believe that everyone wants to be gay and it is only God and government that prevents that from happening.
I’m new here and am too technologically ignorant to block quote, but I can say that this long-married straight person gave $100 to No on 8. So yes, a lot of us straights think it’s very important that everyone has equal rights! (And I really feel sorry for those married straights who think their marriages will be harmed by the love between others … they must have REALLY weak marriages.)
Essentially this is a bill TAKING rights from a subsection of your population.
Isn’t that the pure essence of Anti-American?
Yes you married, but we’ve made a law nullifying that and you no longer have that right. Tough Shit.
Surely this is a religious policy ( actually its very Anti-Christian in moral ) and therefore not a secular matter.
Any person wishing to declare their love for another person and have the tax/legal/security benefits of that commitment get married. Marriage is good for Society.
Marriage doesn’t need religion at all. Thats why they have the posibility of a Civil Ceremony.
My wife and I had a civil ceremony as I’m not very religious
( shes catholic ).
No one has the goddamn right to take that marriage certificate from me.
And no-one has the right to take the marriage of the 11000 californians who rushed to get married this month in fear of losing their AMERICAN RIGHT of freedom to choose.
The Moar You Know
Good. Darwin will exact a brutal revenge. Now the kids won’t go to college. They will be far more vulnerable to foreclosure or to a catastrophic health incident. But most importantly, those kids won’t go to college, or if they do, it won’t be as nice a one as if their idiot parents had kept FIFTY THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS in the bank. They will get less prestigious educations and their chances of getting into positions of authority over others will be greatly diminished. And this is all great news as far as I’m concerned.
I sure hope they think it was all worth it when Prop 8 goes down to defeat – as is common with idiots, they assuredly will. Maybe next year they’ll just dump all their savings into the struggle.
@ Brick Oven Bill
I see this as the reason we also see the Vatican refusing to let catholic priests marry. Families would be a financial drain on the coffers along with watering down the ability of "the Church" to control its message as the priests take a vow but, wives and children would not necessarily do so.
(Ergo they end up with a large number of homosexuals in their priesthood who can vow celibacy on a technicality.)
I agree with you that it’s (become) more about the control of money and power which = influence, which = money, which = power, and on and on.
In this way, Christianity and Islam share a very important commonality: grow and maintain control of the flock.
At the core, it’s no longer about spiritually or philosophy at all, but that’s what they’ve gotten us to believe, and so that’s what all the knee-jerk responses are based on.
jake 4 that 1
@Josh Hueco: W.I.N.
James F. Elliott
Oh, fuck those "Yes on 8" people. Fuck ’em right in the nose. Just for that, I’m donating again.
Speaking as a bi woman, I feel safe to posit that the anti-gay crowd is convinced a lesbian will deliberately sweep me off my feet and convince me to divorce my husband, then marry her. Of course, since I’m also polyamorous, I wish that hypothetical dyke-of-their-wet-dreams a lot of luck.
You don’t need to wait. I’m going to find out who you are and publish your name and EVERYONE WILL KNOW!
I live in a reasonably liberal part of California, and "McCain Palin" signs and stickers are quite rare. But I’m frankly surprised at the number of "Yes on 8" signs I see.
Every time I pass a car on the road with a "Yes on 8" sticker on it I try to get a good look at the driver, so I can see what ignorant intolerance looks like. It’s weird; they usually look kind of like normal people.
Argh, the name and address below the "Thanks" were part of the blockquote, and it showed up that way in preview, but it got eated.
Are you kidding? Those kidz (the whole passel) probably just sealed a free ride to BYU, where they can get edjakated reel gud.
But yes, I’ll be thinking of their sacrifice come next month. Freaks.
Come to Canada! ;)
I think a lot of religious people who’re for Prop. 8 seem to dislike it on principle if they’re not already taking it personally. That or they quote some study/studies that apparently say it’s better for children to be raised by two different gender parents, versus two of the same gender (I’m pretty sure I’ve seen at least one study saying it’s BS).
If you don’t already, time to get a Mac
I keep getting stuff from them too.
I suspect it’s because the first time I got a robo-call I accidentally pressed the wrong button thinking I would talk to a real person…and tell them to quit calling me. Instead it may have put me on the list.
Anyhoo, I’ve called at least twice to get my name off the list. I’ve also sent stuff back, at my expense for the stamp. No luck.
So now, every time I get something, I put a stamp on it and send it back with a note explaining that every time they send me something I’m donating $50 to the "No on 8" campaign.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain why it’s fair that I have to pay taxes on my wife’s health benefits, when my male, married co-workers don’t.
I asked around the office, and it seems like I’m falling down on the job. None of my co-workers have reported any problems with their marriages since September 5. I kind of want the "Yes on 8" people to screw up and call my house so I can point this out to them.
I’m also trying to resist the temptation to get a bunch of stickers printed that say, "I’m a bigot!" and stick one right after the "Yes" on those ugly yellow bumper stickers. It’s hard, though, because I’m really kind of pissed off at these people who don’t know me claiming that they have the right to vote on my relationships.
Not only are we becoming decadant and loose, but vulgar as well.
MY BEST FRIEND’S GAY.
To all the straight dudes like me out there:
It’s the day before the election.
By the end of tomorrow, my best friend will know whether or not he can be legally married in the state of California. And as the polls stand right now, it looks like he won’t be able to do that. And that bums me out, brother.
If you told me when I was growing up that my best friend would be gay I’d have laughed in your face, maybe even punched you in it. I grew up in a rural area of Maryland filled with mullets, acid wash jeans and the good ole boys that wore them both. Hell, I was one of ‘em… part of me still is. I went to Catholic school, a private university and didn’t know an openly gay person until I moved to Los Angeles.
I played “smear the queer”, called my friends “faggots” and if someone did something silly or stupid, I’d call him “gay”. I simply had no frame of reference. Perhaps if you are reading this, you don’t either and I can appeal to you in these final hours…
I know every single one of you (whether you are man enough to admit it or not) hopes to find your perfect partner… dare I say soulmate? Personally, I have visions of finding “love at first sight”, going through the first stages of love where I can’t get enough of this beautiful woman, falling madly in love with her, marrying and living happily ever after where we both die peacefully in our sleep holding hands.
Guess what? We aren’t the only ones that have those feelings. Gay men and women have the exact same dreams that we do, because that is what PEOPLE do… dream. We dream of what we want to be when we grow up, the kind of house we want to live in, where we are going to vacation and what our perfect relationship looks like. And just like all of us straight guys where we prefer blondes over brunettes over redheads, there are some people that prefer others of the same sex. That’s really all there is to it. Believe it or not, they aren’t doing it to spite you.
I know that some of you who oppose same sex marriage want to make this into a huge deal where the door will be open for people to marry rabbits and aliens and anything else you can imagine, but the simple fact of the matter is, that argument doesn’t work.
My gay best friend doesn’t want to marry a rabbit any more than I do. Or an alien for that matter. (Although I would have sex with that hot alien chick on the new Battlestar Gallactica.)
I am in the entertainment industry and since moving to L.A., I have met hundreds of gay guys and I have to tell you all a secret… “Shhhh… they are people EXACTLY like you and me except they happen to like other dudes.” I know that seems weird to you. It did to me too when I first moved out here, but since then I have observed them and taken notes and this is what I have found:
OBSERVATION OF THE GAYS:
1) They have feelings just like you and me. They experience love, hate, jealousy, disappointment and elation.
2) Some of them actually have more successful relationships than we do. Imagine that. Two people in a relationship that actually works. What would you give for that? I’ve looked up to the sky and offered God ANYTHING for a successful relationship. I’m still waiting and I envy ANYONE that can make that work.
3) Gays are PEOPLE. They are entitled to the same things all other people are: the right to vote, the right to free speech and should be afforded the right to marry one another. It’s simply a matter of equality.
4) Gays are generally clean. This has nothing to do with anything, but I wanted to share ALL of the data with you.
My best friend is an amazing singer and one late night, we were hanging out with a few friends and he sang, “Loch Lomond” (look it up). When he was finished, without even thinking about it, I said, “One day, I want you to sing that at my wedding.” He was honored.
And then I started thinking about what honor I could bestow upon him to reciprocate. And it hit me that I may never be able to do something like that for him if Prop 8 passes tomorrow.
I’ve seen him these last two weeks in the throws of a budding relationship and it has been a real education for me. I’m not used to being this tight with a buddy who also happens to be gay and I have to say there are still things that open my eyes.
He’s in that beautiful, romantic phase of a new relationship where they want to spend every moment together. I’ve never seen him so happy. So inspired. And that makes me happy. Although it is still hard for me to understand how he can be physically attracted to another guy (we’re loud, sweaty and not that smart), what I do understand and appreciate are the feelings. And it is absolutely amazing to witness.
I hope he falls madly in love with this guy, they move in together and if they so choose, are allowed to marry one another in the eyes of the law and all of their “fabulous” party guests. If that happens, I’m sure I’ll cry. (I’m a sucker for weddings).
And in the meantime, I’m going to remain positive and think about what I can do for him at his wedding. It’s only fair. As it looks between the two of them now, I better start taking guitar lessons tonight.
So from one bro to another, I’d like to ask this favor: Please vote No on Prop 8.
Even if you don’t want to do it for the gay guys because you don’t know them, do it for me… a straight dude.
Because I really can’t stand having to owe anyone anything!
Thank you for reading this.
NO ON 8!
By: Stirling Gardner
The anti-Prop 8, pro gay marriage crowd ran ads charging this whole idea that public schools will teach gay marriage is just a "lie." However, the same groups who said it’s a lie – "public schools will teach about gay marriage whether parents like it or not" – were in court in Massachusetts filing amicus briefs arguing parents don’t have any right to opt their children out of the pro-gay marriage curriculum.From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief: ", it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents." [p 5]From the Human Rights Campaign Amicus Curiae Brief:"(parents have) no right to remove the books now in issue – or to impose an opt-out system." [pp1-2]From the ACLU Amicus Curiae Brief:" parents do not have a constitutional right to override pedagogical judgment of the school …King and King." [p 9]Which side is really telling the truth here about its aims?