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You are here: Home / Politics / Republican Stupidity / Deep Thought

Deep Thought

by Tim F|  November 6, 200811:39 am| 67 Comments

This post is in: Republican Stupidity

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Still waiting for the Republican party to choose a leader.

If it will help her chances I take back every unkind thing I ever said about Sarah Palin. At the very least she clearly has the right stuff to be the RNC finance chair.

***Update***

Awesome. Eric Cantor and Mike Pence will take the #2 and #3 leadership spots in the House GOP. Pence stirred up some trouble when he backed Bush’s abortive immigration plan, but overall these are two of the most ideological true believers in the GOP caucus. If the GOP needs to broaden its appeal through reform then choosing these two is like putting cancer in charge of the chemo.

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Previous Post: « The Circular Firing Squad
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Reader Interactions

67Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    November 6, 2008 at 11:41 am

    If Palin must steal, let her steal from the enemy.

  2. 2.

    JL

    November 6, 2008 at 11:58 am

    Roy Blunt is out, shucks. Hopefully Boener stays around, because he amuses me.

  3. 3.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Well, it looks like Eric Cantor is in as Minority Whip

    John gets his wish.

  4. 4.

    D. Mason

    November 6, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Completely OT but I guess the folks here will find it interesting. I live pretty close to a military base and earlier today I overheard a story from one of the civilian contractors who works on base. Apparently yesterday someone brought in some victory donuts that were decorated to celebrate the Obama victory and it caused such a disruption among the McCain supporters in the office that the employee who brought the donuts had to be given the day off to restore order. Obviously this is a rumor but since i heard it from someone who works in the office I figured it was worth mentioning.

  5. 5.

    Brian J

    November 6, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I hope the fighting is as bloody and as childish as someone dropping a bag of potato chips into the middle of an empty table at a camp for fat kids. I’m talking the sort of fighting that makes nasty, snotty teenage girls look like seasoned diplomats on the world stage in comparison. That way, when Obama’s team is in place once he’s sworn in, nobody will take anyone who isn’t a moderate Republican, like Snowe or Collins, seriously.

  6. 6.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Lest We Forget:
    Eric Cantor on Hardball
    And quoted in Newsweek in an item dated Nov. 5th, 2008:

    Echoing Brown’s sentiments about the dangers of Democratic overreach and predicting success at beating back the Democratic tide, Cantor said House leadership and especially Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi have alienated voters by flexing partisan muscles at a time of economic crisis. But he also sounded a hopeful note, saying he expects Democrats to work cooperatively with the minority in Congress and govern from the middle. "They’re going to have members who frankly are coming from Republican seats," Cantor said. "They won’t be able to survive in those seats unless they support some common sense conservative solutions and not be so far to the left." He added that: "by virtue of the way [Obama] conducted his race he understands this is a center-right country and you run on a conservative platform of cutting taxes for the middle class. That sort of indicates someone gets it."

    "Common sense conservative solutions." First, you need to round up some conservatives with common sense, Eric.

  7. 7.

    Brian J

    November 6, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Didn’t Gore run on cutting taxes for the middle class eight years ago? Is Al Gore a conservative-leaning individual, Mr. Cantor?

  8. 8.

    Tim Fuller

    November 6, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    My website http://www.thetimchannel is now back, fully armed and ready for action. Here’s a little something that I wrote but didn’t post about 14 months ago that I thought we could enjoy together since the Republicans are trying to focus on how to repair their reputations with the public. My recommendation to them would involve their voluntary and very public submission to a public whipping (at a minimum) for the crimes they’ve commited:

    We should point out at every opportunity how SHAMEFUL it is to be a Republican. Highlight the PARTY OF DEATH that invokes OUR peaceful Christ into an icon for THEIR wars. Repeat, ad nauseum, every awful, duplicitous and hateful statement they spew. Make THEM OWN IT. While the Republicans are focused on pointing the media’s attention to our candidates haircuts, I am focused, and suggest others also focus, on pointing out how SHAMEFUL, ANTICHRISTIAN, AUTHORATARIAN, ANTIDEMOCRATIC and HATEFUL the REPUBLICAN PARTY has become. By the end of the Bush term, it might end up becoming a public TABOO to admit YOU EVER supported them!! People at parties all over the country will be swearing to their friends and neighbors that they were never Republican. Highly prominent individuals will obviously have a harder time trying to distance themselves from das Fuhe…ahem….The Party ‘of which we shall not speak’. What sweet poetic justice if being or having been REPUBLICAN is as SHAMEFUL TO THEM as they perceive homosexuality to be for others (or intelligence for that matter, but let’s not split hairs)

    Enjoy.

  9. 9.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    D.Mase — the few military guys @ know told me that there’s a hell of a lot of closeted Obama supporters in the ranks, but nobody dares to screw their promotion opts by speaking openly. I bet the guy w/ the donuts will be shippin to Iraq soon.

  10. 10.

    Rick Taylor

    November 6, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    I am very curious what’s going to happen with the Republican party. The right wing seems to think they’re in charge, and able to make pronouncements like Jim Nuzzo did "David Brooks and David Frum and Peggy Noonan are dead people in the Republican Party. The litmus test will be: where did you stand on Palin?". Red State’s "operation leper" is another example. Somehow, I doubt things are going to go the way these more extreme right wingers expect; I doubt they have the power they think they do. The more moderate Republicans aren’t going to sit by as their excommunicated, especially the ones with money. But I have no clue how it will work. There’s no obvious leader of the party now. One of the things that bothered me was there was no one running for President who could make a credible leader for reality based Republicans (assuming they exist). As much fun as it is seeing them descend into civil war, I think having at least two sane parties engaging in vigorous debate would be a positive thing for the country.

  11. 11.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    OT – Rush Limbaugh all but declared war on the anti-Palin crowd

  12. 12.

    LanceThruster

    November 6, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    I thought it’s always been Beelzebub*.

    What’s changed?

    *Beelzebul claims to cause destruction through tyrants, to cause demons to be worshipped among men, to excite priests to lust, to cause jealousies in cities and murders, and to bring on war.

  13. 13.

    amorphous

    November 6, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Huzzah and Kudos to Eric Cantor, whose praises I sing daily! (See what I did there?)

    OT: If Franken wins, is he the funniest Senator… or is it still Crazy (Convicted) Uncle Ted Stevens?

  14. 14.

    Brian J

    November 6, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    As much fun as it is seeing them descend into civil war, I think having at least two sane parties engaging in vigorous debate would be a positive thing for the country.

    This is only a temporary setback for the party. How long it takes them to come back is another story, but I somehow doubt we’re on the verge of the collapse of a major political party, the ashes of which will emerge into something else.

    I obviously don’t know much about their specific situations, but my guess is, people like Richard Lugar are reluctant to join an Obama administration because they want to try to grab the reins and guide the party back to sanity.

  15. 15.

    Tim F.

    November 6, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Punchy,

    Once in a while a link would be helpful.

  16. 16.

    D. Mason

    November 6, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    @Punchy: Well, luckily for him the guys talking about the incident were civilian contractors and if he works in their office he probably doesn’t have to worry much about getting shipped out. Still I think it’s a pretty sad statement about the level of professionalism in some quarters. Also, what does it say about the mentality of someone who would refuse a fresh donut because of the pattern of sprinkles on top?

  17. 17.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Well, it looks like Eric Cantor is in as Minority Whip

    ZOMG, it’s my Birthday. John Stewart can sleep easier tonight. Stupid has not left the Republican Party. It’s just grown fatter, louder, and less coherent.

  18. 18.

    TR

    November 6, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Cantor! What a great week for us.

    The Democrats just became a lock to pick up 20 more seats in 2010.

  19. 19.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    If the GOP needs to broaden its appeal through reform then choosing these two is like putting cancer in charge of the chemo.

    That’s an interesting way of putting it, Tim.

    If it weren’t for the fact that we’re talking about the evangelical wing of the Repub party, I’d have to disagree how awesome that is, but, since we are… :)

    OT – Rush Limbaugh all but declared war on the anti-Palin crowd

    Good, it’s official, I declared war on him over 12 years ago, and got an A in two college classes (Poli Sci and Philosophy) by submitting a paper on one of his stupid books at the same time.

  20. 20.

    Brian J

    November 6, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Meanwhile, Obama has been declared the winner in North Carolina. So much for no new battlegrounds this year.

  21. 21.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    ZOMG, it’s my Birthday. John Stewart can sleep easier tonight. Stupid has not left the Republican Party. It’s just grown fatter, louder, and less coherent.

    I had the pleasure of reading a thread over at FR late Tuesday night on which the thread author asked if they needed to be a big tent party again, and naturally, they pretty much ALL said "NFW".

    Take that liberals, they’re going to beat us but becoming totally irrelevant. Ha!

  22. 22.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    @Tim F.:
    The transcript for today’s show isn’t up yet and I can’t take very much of his blubbery voice so I skipped the podcast.
    OTOH, read some of the other transcripts wherein he’s exulting that the Repubs have rid themselves of all those lily-livered Northeastern Congressmen. His rationale is now they’ll be able to run all the way to the right with "real conservatives" and retake Congress in ’10.

  23. 23.

    JimF

    November 6, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    I disagree. I want both sides to be smart and principled. No one stays in power forever. Government is not about political parties but about the nation.

    We need contrast in order to see clearly what is happening. To be cliche, and I’m not saying the Republicans are evil, without the darkness, how do you define the light?

    I hope the Democrats are gracious in victory. The times are perilous enough without adding unthinking hatred into the mix.

  24. 24.

    NickM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    "If the GOP needs to broaden its appeal through reform then choosing these two is like putting cancer in charge of the chemo."

    Great line.

  25. 25.

    thomas

    November 6, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    I do believe GWB will be looking for work in 75 days. Outside of the Hagees and Robertsons I don’t think there is any better choice to remain at the front of a party that is anti-intellectual and theocratic.
    Unless Rush wants to take a cut in pay and put his mouth where his money is.
    75 days. Is it too short a time to run thru a quicky impeachment?

  26. 26.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Hmmm, these purges often go in waves with the definition of purity going up in each successive wave. Can we look forward to the Last Republican Standing throwing himself out of the party?

  27. 27.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Tim – once in a while turn on your fucking radio and tune the fuck in.

  28. 28.

    NickM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    "Unless Rush wants to take a cut in pay and put his mouth where his money is."

    Right. Can you imagine what the oppo research would turn up on that guy? I’m guessing the corpses in that guy’s closet would gag a maggot.

  29. 29.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    November 6, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    The GOP is not going to "choose a leader" any time in the near future. It has no process for doing so, has no guiding principles or imperatives other than clinging to shreds of power. I think it is at least a couple years away from shaping itself into something useful, if then. They will try at the 2010 election cycle but I see them lost in the fog for the better part of 4 years, just as Dems were 8 years ago.

  30. 30.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    @TheHatOnMyCat:
    We should help them. I suggest Steel Cage Death Matches between their putative leaders.

  31. 31.

    Wisdom

    November 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Rahm Emanuel. Now there’s some change.

    I, for one, am excited about all the excuses the moonbats will be making here as we see all these ‘new’ faces filling the ranks and bringing ‘change’.

  32. 32.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    I disagree. I want both sides to be smart and principled. No one stays in power forever. Government is not about political parties but about the nation.

    JimF, you’re not going to get smart and principled from the fundie extremists. That’s why we’re giddy at watching this implosion. The sooner they get this over with, the better.

    We want the same, but not from that group. They usurped the rightful leadership of that party and now they need to be run out on a rail.

    If you think fundies are going to govern in smart and principled fashion, you need to put down the bong now.

  33. 33.

    liberal

    November 6, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    @Rick Taylor:

    As much fun as it is seeing them descend into civil war, I think having at least two sane parties engaging in vigorous debate would be a positive thing for the country.

    But we already have a centrist party: the Democrats.

    We don’t need a right-wing party; at most, a center-right one.

    Thus, best outcome is that the Republican Party goes defunct and a second party rises to challenge the Dems from the left.

  34. 34.

    Pixie

    November 6, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Oh I remember why Pense’s name sounded so familiar :) he’s the same guy that said this:

    Along with a squad of military security, we spent more than an hour at a bustling, open-air marketplace. While we were instructed to leave our bulletproof vests on, Gen. Petraeus took off his helmet and urged us to leave our helmets in the vehicles. We milled around for more than an hour. I told reporters afterward that it was just like any open-air market in Indiana in the summertime. I didn’t mean that Baghdad was as safe as the Bargersville Flea Market; I just meant that that was what it looked and felt like: lots of people, lots of booths and a friendly relaxed atmosphere.

    http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/04/post_13.html

    I’m guessing he’ll be the brains of the operation?

  35. 35.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    We need contrast in order to see clearly what is happening. To be cliche, and I’m not saying the Republicans are evil, without the darkness, how do you define the light?I hope the Democrats are gracious in victory. The times are perilous enough without adding unthinking hatred into the mix.

    I’ll gladly help them out. Which way did they come in?

    We need a serious alternative party in the United States and – frankly – I think it would be nice if this party happened to lean more left of center than right of center. As much as the Republicans fear-monger and saber rattle against socialists and communists and welfare queens and militant atheist environmental wackos, they don’t really understand what an honest-to-goodness liberal party looks like. I’d like to see that party.

    I want a party that champions individual rights over corporations to a zealous degree. A party more concerned with environmental protection than corporate growth. A party that defends civil rights to an unreasonable degree – the kind that wants to abolish the FCC and the DEA before they launch a massive anti-trust crusade against monopoly businesses. I want a 1998 Ralph Nader party. I want a party so far to the left that I can say, "No thank you. I can’t vote for that candidate. He is too far to the left."

    But more than that. I want a party of college educated professionals and academics as well as business savy entrepreneurs who don’t just make up economic principles as they go along. I want an intelligent opposition, the type that can spell out hard core hyper-left principles in a detailed and rational way. The guy who can get up and say, "You want to live in a communist self-sustaining bio-dome powered by free love and LSD? Here are the blue prints to make that happen." And then I can say to that person, "No, your idea is stupid and crazy and I want no part of it" but I can also say "Thank you for putting forward the engineering expertise, the social science, and the reasoned judgment necessary to make a model that wouldn’t immediately catch fire and embarrass everyone involved."

    I want an opposition party that makes a functional, coherent society – a society that fundamentally works – but doesn’t work in the way I envision the world. And I can argue with that person on the merits of energy imports versus self-reliance, formal education versus on-the-job training, capital investments by government sponsors versus individual venture capital, without feeling like I’m talking to a chimp.

    The current GOP is not that party. I hope it will be some day. I just don’t see it happening any time soon. So for now, it can catch fire and burn.

  36. 36.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Time Magazine:
    Final Tally: Obama Takes North Carolina

    (RALEIGH, N.C.) — President-elect Obama has won North Carolina, a symbolic triumph in a state that hadn’t voted for a Democrat in more than a generation.

  37. 37.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    November 6, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Rahm Emanuel. Now there’s some change sharp flaming
    stick up my ass.

    Adjusted for clarity.

  38. 38.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 6, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Right. Can you imagine what the oppo research would turn up on that guy? I’m guessing the corpses in that guy’s closet would gag a maggot.

    My mother is quite the ditto head, unfortunately. (And they wonder why I don’t visit more…) I usually just let her rant, which she also seems to resist doing around me, so I consider my restraint to be meeting her halfway. But anyway, she repeated something so stupid one day that I snapped, "Oh, gee, this from a guy who just got caught coming into the country with an illegal viagra prescription on return from a country that specializes in child prostitution."

    That ended it and I haven’t heard more. So, airing his closet might work, on the margins, at least a little.

  39. 39.

    Rick Taylor

    November 6, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Off topic and it doesn’t matter anymore, but it turns out as a child, Joe’s family received welfare on two occasions, something he credits helping them get back on their feet. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I’m stunned. After McCain warned us that Obama wanted to take your money and give to people on welfare in his campaign commercials, after he and the wingnuts made Joe their unofficial hero and spokesman (I am Joe), after passing that joke along about no longer tipping waiters and giving it to the homeless and saying they’re doing it for Obama, it turns out Joe himself has benefited from evil Marxist redistribution of wealth.

  40. 40.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 6, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    @TheHatOnMyCat,

    Yeah, bit of a head scratcher. Are we seeing healing on the dem side with this? Was a splintering happening behind the scenes that was masked by the greater purpose/enemy?

    On the upside, this is a job that Obama will definitely know is running right or not, so if he doesn’t cut the mustard, he will be replaced.

  41. 41.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    November 6, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Joe Lieberman is having a press conference: I will support our new President.

    No word if he is still in the Democratic caucus. He just finished his meeting with Harry Reid. I’ll check around and see if I can find out anything. (And put up a link.)

  42. 42.

    Capri

    November 6, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    The Republicans don’t want a leader in the political sense, they want someone they can deify. It will take a little while, but it’s there whenever he wants it to be.

    The next leader of the Republican party will be General Petraeus.

  43. 43.

    Martin

    November 6, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Rahm Emanuel. Now there’s some change.
    I, for one, am excited about all the excuses the moonbats will be making here as we see all these ‘new’ faces filling the ranks and bringing ‘change’.

    What do you expect, a bunch of rookies?

    Mostly what I’m expecting we’ll see is a diversity of loyalties and a minimum of patronage. I expect we’ll know most of the names put forward.

    And when do Democrats make excuses? Normally we turn on each other like dogs over shit like this. Personally, I’m fine with Rahm. From a temperament standpoint, he’s Obama’s opposite. I would have made a similar choice. My assistant at work is the opposite of me, I take a long view – often too long, she takes a short one – often too short. We argue a lot and we make better decisions because of it.

  44. 44.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Joe Lieberman is having a press conference: I will support our new President.

    After the shit he said at the RNC? Make him beg for it, and then make him wait for a couple of months to find out if his wish is granted.

  45. 45.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Rahm Emanuel. Now there’s some change.
    I, for one, am excited about all the excuses the moonbats will be making here as we see all these ‘new’ faces filling the ranks and bringing ‘change’.

    Obama is not trying to create a liberal administration. He is growing a centrist, work with the sane right, coalition.

    We knew he would do this, he told us all along he would. If you didn’t hear him, you weren’t listening.

    I will trust him to go there.

  46. 46.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 6, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    @CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
    Had Obama chosen a completely fresh face, unWisdom would have bitched about Obama’s staffing his administration with untested ideologues who couldn’t possibly work with the Republicans.

  47. 47.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    The next leader of the Republican party will be General Petraeus.

    What s/he said. Exactly.

    They will rally around a General, cuz in their view, a General cannot–under any circumstances–EVAH be criticized for anything at all evah.

  48. 48.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    Had Obama chosen a completely fresh face, unWisdom would have bitched about Obama’s staffing his administration with untested ideologues who couldn’t possibly work with the Republicans.

    You’re absolutely right, Dennis.

  49. 49.

    NonyNony

    November 6, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    @Dennis – SGMM:

    Not only that, had Obama chosen a "fresh face" he would have spent months spinning his wheels, going nowhere and failing fast. Carter comes to mind, as does the first 2 years of Clinton’s term.

    Folks who are expecting Obama to be the hard-left socialist that the Republicans were running against are going to be severely disappointed. The man ran with a platform that Eisenhower could have embraced for crying out loud. And he’s shown that he’s pragmatic with the alliances he makes and the people he chooses to staff positions. Don’t be surprised if you see more centrists and technocrats in an Obama administration than liberals – he’s been telling us all along that that’s exactly the kind of administration he wanted to run. ("Change" has long been shorthand for "I Won’t Staff My Government With Incompetent Cronies", among other things).

    Just because the Republicans wanted everyone to think he was Fidel Castro and Karl Marx all rolled together, that doesn’t make it true. I think a lot of moderate, non-hyper-partisan Republicans are going to be very happy with how Obama approaches things. (Hyper-partisan liberal Dems, OTOH, are probably going to be disappointed fairly often – much as Clinton disappointed them fairly often.)

  50. 50.

    Krista

    November 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    They will rally around a General, cuz in their view, a General cannot—under any circumstances—EVAH be criticized for anything at all evah***.

    ***Offer not valid if General does not parrot right-wing talking points.

  51. 51.

    ThymeZoneThePlumber

    November 6, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    Comrade D, my secret encoded message was that I expect, and fully approve of the idea that, Emanuel will be a sharp stick up the ass of people who think that they can play footsie with the new White House. A tough guy who brooks no bullshit and makes the meetings start on time is just what we need. It’s a message that a new sheriff is in town and the pricks who think that they can get away with something need to rethink their strategies. On either side of the aisle.

    It’s a message that this is not the Carter administration. Carter came to town naive about how Washington works, and brought with him a bunch of neophytes who were also naive. Result, Washington DC walked all over him. That is not going to happen to the Obama administration. Emanuel is the perfect guy for the COS job. I heartily approve.

    Yeah, this is about change. It’s about get on board and get things done, or get the hell out of the way. Just exactly what we need.

  52. 52.

    ThymeZoneThePlumber

    November 6, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Obama is not trying to create a liberal administration.

    That’s right. Remember the flak he took in the primary season when he lauded the Reagan approach to making things work in Washington? He understands how to get people together and get things done. You don’t start with weak and naive people on your staff. You start with strength and go from there.

    Remember what we are replacing here: Cheney and Rove. Anyone on the right who wants to bark about personnel choices should be asked to please go fuck themselves. We don’t need no stinking advice from them.

  53. 53.

    ThymeZoneThePlumber

    November 6, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Where are the folks who said No Way would Obama take North Carolina in this election?

  54. 54.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Folks who are expecting Obama to be the hard-left socialist that the Republicans were running against are going to be severely disappointed. The man ran with a platform that Eisenhower could have embraced for crying out loud. And he’s shown that he’s pragmatic with the alliances he makes and the people he chooses to staff positions. Don’t be surprised if you see more centrists and technocrats in an Obama administration than liberals – he’s been telling us all along that that’s exactly the kind of administration he wanted to run

    Nony, absolutely, and now the heads on the right explode when they realize what they’ve been fighting all along and they had no freaking clue. "Most liberal senator in Congress" creates a centrist government. Hmmmm, guess that community organizing is something they should have paid more attention to.

    Do you get it now, wingnuts? This is one of two reasons you lost, the other is because you’ve come completely undone. Now step aside and watch what Obama does.

  55. 55.

    Soylent Green

    November 6, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    I want a party that champions individual rights over corporations to a zealous degree. A party more concerned with environmental protection than corporate growth. A party that defends civil rights to an unreasonable degree – the kind that wants to abolish the FCC and the DEA before they launch a massive anti-trust crusade against monopoly businesses. I want a 1998 Ralph Nader party. I want a party so far to the left that I can say, "No thank you. I can’t vote for that candidate. He is too far to the left."

    All good in principle, but not in practice. It would help put into focus what we progressives really care about and frame the debate around what really matters. But because this party’s candidates would be unelectable, it would pull votes from the center-left Dem and potentially get the right wing candidate elected.
     

    I want an intelligent opposition, the type that can spell out hard core hyper-left principles in a detailed and rational way.

    But it won’t sustain itself without money, and must win some elections, or at least be bankrolled by very rich guys. How many such whales are ever hyper-left? I don’t see such a party ever coming into being, much less surviving more than one election cycle.

  56. 56.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    More than that TZ, Indiana? :)

  57. 57.

    gwangung

    November 6, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    ("Change" has long been shorthand for "I Won’t Staff My Government With Incompetent Cronies", among other things).

    FTW. (Damn, BJ’s been on fire, today).

    And, indeed, that’s change I can believe in…

  58. 58.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    November 6, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    that’s change I can believe in…

    Amen, and amen.

  59. 59.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    November 6, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    More than that TZ, Indiana? :)

    I know. Whenever I think of Indiana, I think of Jim Nabors singing "Back Home Again In Indiana" and I think ….. well, you know. Goddy bless those pore folks out there.

    So, of all the red to blue flips, for me, Indiana is the most amazing. As one yakking pundit said the other night, Indiana was "born to be a red state."

    They are still counting votes, I think there are a couple million yet to tally officially, but we are probably looking at around 9 million more votes for Obama than for McCain in this election cycle.

    TZ smile!

    TZ likey!

  60. 60.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Hey John? I have a comment that has been awaiting moderation for like 40 mins now. (just letting ya know).

  61. 61.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Amen, and amen.

    Shouldn’t that be Amen and Amen Ra?

    Just checking.

  62. 62.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    November 6, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Did Missouri go for McCain, or hasn’t it been called yet?

  63. 63.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Missouri is McCain’s. We’re waiting for one electoral vote out of Nebraska and that’s end game for the EV’s.

  64. 64.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    November 6, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Thanks, Circus, though I’m sorry to hear it. With Missouri, Obama would have topped 375 EVs and gotten the official landslide.

  65. 65.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 6, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Xecky, I’m sorry, I’m wrong. Missouri is NOT called. I saw a map earlier that was showing Missouri called but can’t even remember where I saw it now.

    According to the news and Kos’s Map tool, those EV’s are still outstanding with McCain almost 6,000 ahead, AFAIK.

  66. 66.

    Martin

    November 6, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Obama is not trying to create a liberal administration. He is growing a centrist, work with the sane right, coalition.

    Too simplistic.

    Obama appears to be aiming for an administration that is competent and effective. I think from a policy perspective it will be considerably more liberal than people here think, depending on where you look.

    What people will have trouble differentiating is how these actors get through the day vs. what these actors care about. There were many highly competent people in the Clinton administration that were working on policy that wasn’t terribly liberal. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be equally competent with a more liberal roadmap, but we tend to judge staffers on the policy, not on the ability to achieve it.

    Look at what the Republicans care most about that the WH would have a hand in, and that’s where you will see centrism. Look at what they don’t care about, and that’s where I think you will see much more liberal policy folks. If RFK Jr. is seriously being floated for EPA, you have to conclude that centrism will be pretty parochial.

  67. 67.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    So, of all the red to blue flips, for me, Indiana is the most amazing. As one yakking pundit said the other night, Indiana was "born to be a red state."

    This was a 20-21 point flip for Obama. That’s remarkable. It’s one thing to take a couple of percent, or even 5, but to take 20 is something special. Indiana is more reflective of this election that anything else, frankly.

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