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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / More on the Change.Gov

More on the Change.Gov

by John Cole|  December 11, 20082:13 pm| 102 Comments

This post is in: Media, Politics

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Ben updates to re-iterate
that folks are not just voting no, but flagging things as inappropriate, which he thinks is an abuse of the system and stated as much in his original post. All well and good, and his point is noted, as in my original post I thought Ben was discussing not only questions that had been flagged, but those voted down. Ben deserves a correction for that, as I did think he was talking not only flagged but voted down comments. However, I still have several issues (insert joke here):

First, Ben did not merely make a suggestion for a change in process. Ben stated “So far, Obama’s team does not seem to have stepped in to allow uncomfortable questions to rise to the top, and instead is allowing his supporters to sanitize the site.”

That is not a simple suggestion for a process change, that is an assertion of perfidy on the part of team Obama. The insinuation is there for all to clearly infer- the Obama team is allowing the “sanitizing of the site” and dodging the “uncomfortable questions.”

Second, if your main concerns are the terrible economy, the war, the budget, and the hundred other pressing issues out there, then when faced with the question “Will you explain your true connection to all your corrupt buddies?”, the most blatant of the questions Ben originally caught as flagged, not only do you vote it down, but you would be perfectly warranted to flag it as inappropriate. Given the number of issues we face, it certainly is. Ben thinks I am misreading him, but I understand exactly what is happening- folks are flagging questions as inappropriate, even when many people voted for it. I understand that, and as Ben notes, this sort of system can be problematic. That does not, however, mean wrong-doing or some nefarious scheme on the part of team Obama. It means that some people are “misusing” a publicly available system. Especially since we know that certain individuals are intentionally flooding the site with questions that are, well, designed only to inflict damage to the incoming Obama administration. That is the sole intent, and if I were a registered user I would probably vote no and flag it, especially since the point of the website is the following:

“The Obama-Biden Transition wants to hear from you. Use our ‘Open for Questions’ tool to ask a question about a policy or issue that’s important to you.

Additionally, it is not like we are not going to see these questions aired elsewhere:

I’ve been watching cable news this afternon–I know, get a life!–and you know, Barack Obama comes from the same state as Rod Blagoyevich. That is really suspicious! What did he know and when did he know it? This is the first major scandal of the Obama Administration! He has to explain himself. You notice he hasn’t had any press conferences since this thing broke…oh, wait. He’s having a press conference tomorrow…And Patrick Fitzgerald said that Obama is no way involved in this? I’ll bet! That’s not what Sean Hannity thinks! It’s a coverup for sure. Will Obama be the first President to be impeached before he’s inaugurated?

CNN’s Jessica Yellin takes the cake, though:

YELLIN: Not “we,” but “I,” leaving open the possibility that one or more of his aides did have contact with the governor’s office. And according to the complaint, Blagojevich wanted to talk to at least one of Obama’s aides. The governor is quoted saying on November 13th that he’d like to call one of the president-elect’s advisors and ask him, “Can you guys help raise $10 million or $15 million?”

It’s not clear whether that call ever happened. And the prosecutor went out of his way to make it clear Obama is not in his crosshairs.

PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: The complaint makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever.

YELLIN: But there’s the perception issue. The man who promised to run the most candid White House in history is saying…

OBAMA: As this is an ongoing investigation involving the governor, I don’t think it will be appropriate for me to comment on the issue at this time.

YELLIN: Sound familiar?

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: But our policy has been that this is an ongoing investigation. We’re not going to comment on it.

YELLIN: It begs many questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did the campaign talk to Governor Blagojevich? What did Senator Obama know about his friend and her chances? Why did she abruptly, Valerie Jarrett, take herself out of the running? There are a series of questions here that just haven’t been answered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YELLIN: Now, Wolf, we had originally heard that Barack Obama might be making some sort of personnel announcements this week, and now we’re told that those aren’t happening until later, maybe even next week, which raises the question, do they not want to put Barack Obama in front of the press taking questions, questions like the ones raised in this piece? The larger issue here is, until Barack Obama addresses some of these questions, they will continue to dog him. Even though there’s absolutely no suggestion of wrongdoing, stonewalling never works well for a politician — Wolf.

Third, censorship has a specific meaning when applied to the government and government officials, and right now the transition team is a quasi-governmental organization. Additionally, Ben notes the following:

Indeed, a reader who says he wrote that question, as “lupercal,” emailed me:

“Let it be noted that 21 people liked it, but 7 people turned it down. Indeed, this is a technical glitch that is exploited by a very select few,” continuing that “the feature’s been announced less than half a day. So, it’s not as if there’s mischievous intent on the part of the Obama team.

In other words, the system has not even had time to work, yet somehow the Obama campaign is “censoring” questions.

Ben says he is not trying to accuse the Obama team of untoward behavior, and I take him at his word, but a full wingnut Voltron has been formed- look how folks on the other side of the political aisle are interpreting Ben’s piece. Captain Ed:

Ben Smith of Politico notes that the Obamaphiles have tubed comments relating to the scandal surrounding Rod Blagojevich, and that Team Obama seems happy to let them continue:

Newsbusters:

President-elect Barack Obama’s transition website Change.gov is censoring questions offered by readers about disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.


Gateway Pundit
:

This is getting comical… Ben Smith reported that the new President-elect Barack Obama’s Transition website page “Open for Questions” is banning questions about Obama’s association with his good friend Rod Blagojevich:

Robert McCain:

Jammie Wearing Fool and Gateway Pundit are both reporting on that Cover-Up You Can Believe In. Ed Morrissey finds Team Obama busy deleting questions about the Blagojevich scandl from the transition Web site.

Commentary magazine:

The Obama transparency hype is just that — hype. His “open for questions” website isn’t. At least not open to questions about Blago.

And on and on. All of that started from one statement: “So far, Obama’s team does not seem to have stepped in to allow uncomfortable questions to rise to the top, and instead is allowing his supporters to sanitize the site.” The headline didn’t hurt, either: “Blagojevich questions censored on Transition site.”

That is why I thought the piece was one of his shoddier efforts, when I honestly do think he has done a decent job writing a professional blog.

*** Update ***

Alright- now he isn’t even trying. Might as well just take out an ad in the Weekly Standard- “Need a right-wing narrative pushed- We are open for business.”

I have now taken matters into my own hands. Please go register for the site and vote on my question. Or mark it inappropriate and CENSOR ME:

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Reader Interactions

102Comments

  1. 1.

    DannyNoonan

    December 11, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Is the ‘unidentified male’ in Jessica Yellin’s story Scooter Libby?

  2. 2.

    Raygun

    December 11, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Amusing, I think that’s the actual correct use of "begging the question", but I don’t think she meant it that way.

  3. 3.

    Zuzu's Petals

    December 11, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    No IQ headline:

    "Ben Smith via Commentary/Gateway/Newsbusters: Obama team murders dissenters."

  4. 4.

    bago

    December 11, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Wait… The swampland bit is not snark? Because honestly, that’s onion level snark.

  5. 5.

    wingnuts to iraq

    December 11, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    its dangerous to question the commander in chief in a time of war. Why are all these people hurting America? They need to watch what they say.

  6. 6.

    bago

    December 11, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Dude! I don’t have permission to edit my own comment so that it doesn’t look like I made it before visiting the website to confirm my own assertions? Now I’m going to look like an ignorant asshole.

    Fuck.

  7. 7.

    demimondian

    December 11, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    I agree with your comment about Ben’s shoddiness in his title, particularly. Censorship has a very particular meaning, and people using a troll rating system to troll rate trollery isn’t censorship. People marking trollery as inappropriate is, itself, inappropriate — but John wasn’t alone in misinterpreting Smith original article as talking about the voting mechanism, not the porn filter. Censoring something requires an explicit imprimatur be available to the censors, and a Digg-style voting system does not grant that power.

    I suggest, in my quietest and most polite way, that Smith was unclear, and was called out for his lack of clarity. After all, if he had meant what he actually said, then he would have deserved the criticism; that he didn’t say what he meant isn’t the fault of his readers.

  8. 8.

    the farmer

    December 11, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Amusing, I think that’s the actual correct use of "begging the question", but I don’t think she meant it that way. – Raygun

    Sure nuff. and i think it might be the first time i’ve seen it used correctly by one of the cable nooze trinkets. eventhough, as you noted, she likely doesn’t even know it herself.

    *

  9. 9.

    DJShay

    December 11, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    YELLIN: Now, Wolf, we had originally heard that Barack Obama might be making some sort of personnel announcements this week, and now we’re told that those aren’t happening until later, maybe even next week, which raises the question, do they not want to put Barack Obama in front of the press taking questions, questions like the ones raised in this piece? The larger issue here is, until Barack Obama addresses some of these questions, they will continue to dog him. Even though there’s absolutely no suggestion of wrongdoing, stonewalling never works well for a politician—Wolf.

    Umm, didn’t he hold a press conference today, make a personnel announcement, and take questions about Blago for half the press conference? Yellin PWND!

  10. 10.

    jenniebee

    December 11, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    It means that some people are “misusing” a publicly available system.

    Yes, and then other people are "misusing" the same system by flagging those misuses as inappropriate.

    After having poked around on Questions for Change for a few minutes this morning, I can’t believe that Ben didn’t have to do a bit of combing to find a question asking about Blagojevich in a constructive manner (in regards to future ethics legislation, curbing corruption and avoiding "another wave of nixonian cynicism"). "Why won’t you come clean about all your corrupt buddies?" was not only more par for the course, it was actually considerably less accusatory and, well, inappropriate, than a great many others there.

  11. 11.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    in my experience, there is no way to run a site that allows voting to become anything but an utter fiasco. people will always abuse any on-line voting system, in order to push their own point of view and to minimize opposing viewpoints.

    user voting has been a constant source of controversy on non-partisan sites like Slashdot and CodeProject for a decade now. people vote down other people for no reason at all – just to aggravate other users, sometimes. or they’ll down-vote a certain user’s comments until that user leaves in frustration. they’ll down-vote a comment or an article, then down-vote the complaints. or, they up-vote a whole thread just to change the color (on CP, votes change a comment’s color). it becomes a game.

    on-line voting, especially anonymous voting, is just another way to troll.

    anybody who is surprised by this is definitely not aware of all internet traditions.

  12. 12.

    MikeJ

    December 11, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    This is why we can’t have nice things. If someone makes an attempt to be open and listen to the American people fuckwits like Politico will pay more attention to the trolls.

    Why won’t Obama talk about hot grits? Why won’t Obama talk about Natalie Portman petrified and naked? We have a right to know!

  13. 13.

    demimondian

    December 11, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    @MikeJ: OGG SMASH!

  14. 14.

    Nylund

    December 11, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    If Obama stepped in and forced certain questions to the top, he would then have to explain why he didn’t choose other questions as well. Many groups would then push the site to bump up their selected questions as well and make accusations if their questions were not selected.

    Its akin to how many blogs don’t ban advertisements they dislike because it becomes a tacit form of approval/endorsement for ads that they don’t ban.

    Overall, I am not surprised that Ben thinks the president should get to choose when to obey the rules, and when to break them.

    And if Ben is truly upset that Obama supporters would attempt to bury his questions, I suggest he read up on the LDS church and CA prop 8, look at the footage of GOP operatives storming a recount center in Florida in 2000, read about the White House outing a CIA agent, Watergate, or the DOJ attorney purges. The GOP has a very long history of trying to strong arm democracy in their favor. The Obama supporters are playing by the rules and no laws are being broken. He’s just mad that they outnumber him and his ilk, but its democracy, fair and square.

    Surely, the wingnuts could muster up an online campaign to swamp the site with their preferred vote if they wanted to.

  15. 15.

    The Other Steve

    December 11, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Ok, ok…. Obviously this charade cannot continue any longer.

    The truth is Barack Obama offered Governor Blago $4 billion if he gave the Senator job back to Obama.

    The thing is, Obama’s done. He’s bored with being President already. He wants to go back home already.

  16. 16.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Surely, the wingnuts could muster up an online campaign to swamp the site with their preferred vote if they wanted to.

    surely.

    after all, the name of that activity is derived from one of the oldest wingnuts sites on the web.

  17. 17.

    Echoes without Bunnies or Men

    December 11, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Jessikuh Yellin pretty much paraphrased what that brain dead tire swinging twat Liz "With sprinkles and creme and sugar for my manly maverick who invites me to his Sedona BBQ" Sidolit wrote the other day, about how this scandal will ‘dog’ Obama even though in the same fucking article, she admits well, there’s nothing on Obama really, but that won’t stop his adversaries from trying to make it an issue.

    So mission accomplished. She can defend her article by pointing out that she admits Fitz says Obama is NOT involved, but she makes sure that the reader knows ‘some issues and questions remain unresolved’ for wingnuts and other morons.

    AP, the print version of Fox News. Every day I see their headlines on Yahoo news, and I always can fucking tell from the byline that the article came from Politico or AP.

  18. 18.

    The Other Steve

    December 11, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    I still don’t understand Ben Smith’s point. I think he’s a fucktard.

  19. 19.

    kwAwk

    December 11, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    IMHO Smith has identified a valid complait with the way the site is being run, the problem comes in that he hypes it.

    Instead of saying, ‘I’m disappointed in how this works’ he says OBAMA CENSORSHIP SCANDAL — READ ALL ABOUT IT

  20. 20.

    Adam

    December 11, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Yawn.

  21. 21.

    bago

    December 11, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Seriously, this whole blago thing just annoys me. So many times I see a word beginning with b and ending with o and have to recontextualize.

  22. 22.

    focality

    December 11, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Amusing, I think that’s the actual correct use of "begging the question", but I don’t think she meant it that way. – Raygun

    Sure nuff. and i think it might be the first time i’ve seen it used correctly by one of the cable nooze trinkets. eventhough, as you noted, she likely doesn’t even know it herself.

    Based on the quoted McClellan text, and the fact she said begs many questions, I don’t think she used the phrase correctly at all. She’s one of those people who thinks it’s interchangeable with "raise the question."

    Can I just say how awesome it is that the MSM and asshats like Ben Smith are reverting back 1992-2000? I love it when bullshit takes centerstage.

    Heaven forbid we talk about the merits of plans to reform health care, or recovering from our recession, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or the Pakistanis, or Russian/Chinese moves in northern Africa, or high seas piracy, eastern Europe, disease outbreaks, civil unrest and all that other nonsense.

    No, let’s keep talking about the Blaggo-Obama connection, or the BHO birth certificate, Wright and Ayers. Christ, it’s not even 1/20/09 yet and the MSM is reverting back to its ca. 1990 form. What a bunch of assholes.

    I can’t wait for the Whitewater and Vince Foster questions fielded by Secretary Clinton, or Holder’s fielding questions–in 2011–about Marc Rich. This is freakin’ awesome.

  23. 23.

    Adam

    December 11, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Longer last comment–

    YOU MEAN PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MAKE A SCANDAL OUT OF THIS? I’M SHOCKED AND CONCERNED. WHAT IS OUR NATIONAL DISCOURSE COMING TO???

  24. 24.

    Beej

    December 11, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    What is needed at the questions site is a third choice. Users should be able to rate the questions "Yes", "No", or "Stupid".

  25. 25.

    The Moar You Know

    December 11, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    You know, this country is being dragged down into a fucking maelstrom of economic destruction. 1 in 10 mortgages are in foreclosure. 1 in 10 Americans are on food stamps. And this is just the beginning, it’s gonna get a lot worse.

    Is anyone paying attention save for the guys over at Calculated Risk and the few posters here? Seems all that most Americans want to do is scream OMFG Obama’s moderation system is so unfair becuz I want to ask him about why he’s a commie and terrorist and the meanie libtards won’t let me CENSORSHIP!ONE!ONEONE. WOLVERINES!

    Well, you know what, I’ve lost hope. Obama is a hell of a guy, but he’s one guy and there’s three hundred million Americans, and as far as I can tell at least 150 million of them are stupid enough to stick their dicks into broken glass if Fox tells ’em to, and the other half isn’t striking me as being much smarter either. If you want proof, look at Congress.

    I hope, for my sake and my family’s sake, that Obama and his buddies can turn this train around and save our collective asses, even though quite a few of them deserve nothing better than the crude shacks and cholera their science-hating Jesus fixation should doom them to. But I don’t think he can pull it off. That’s not a reflection on him, it’s just that I fear the tidal wave of stupid is too strong. Looks like America is going to need to learn the value of good governance the hard way. Again.

  26. 26.

    Grand Wazoo

    December 11, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Seriously, I think the only people remotely concerned about this whole Blago thing are beltway pundits and political blog writers because apparently there’s nothing else to write about. Well, yeah, there’s the collapsing economy, healthcare, massive trade deficits, Iraq, global warming, etc. but who cares about that stuff, this is a SCANDAL!! Woo hoo!! Just like HRC as SoS, let’s make a controversy where none exists, gotta justify our existence!

  27. 27.

    bago

    December 11, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Yeah, but seriously, we have hit worse numbers with far greater opportunity costs. Those fucking geeks on the Internet are going to save everyone’s asses by being remotely competent, which they can show via statistics as opposed to a goddamned water fountain. More people will have math beaten into their skull, even if it costs 30k a pop. Evolution does work, however in pursuit of a more perfect union we do have to wait for these obsolete old fucks to die naturally before undoing their reactionary damage.

  28. 28.

    Zifnab

    December 11, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Ben says he is not trying to accuse the Obama team of untoward behavior, and I take him at his word, but a full wingnut Voltron has been formed- look how folks on the other side of the political aisle are interpreting Ben’s piece.

    Dear RedState,

    I would love to add my 2-cents in on this issue on your site however, you seem to have banned my account, thus rendering my attempts at adding to the conversation effectively "censored" by your web admin.

    Please explain how you have tolerated this degree of non-transparent and deliberate censorship.

    Also, if you could detail all your contacts and make all your accounts available, we need to paw through your mail to find out if you’ve got any connection to Whitewat… er… Jennifer Flower… er… Governor Blagoviech. Yeah, him.

    Thank you,

    Zifnab

  29. 29.

    Tsulagi

    December 11, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    So in a new vehicle for the public to pose questions to a President-elect and his team, Smith sees censorship because it’s not perfect in the eye of every beholder right out of the box? Has he ever used software or bought a new car model?

    Let’s see, when illegal wiretapping program at the admin’s directive first became public, Bush said it was treasonous not only to ask questions, but even to talk about it during a time of war. Now, apparently on this change.gov site a burning question with a lot of votes about Obama’s birth certificate could be flagged as “inappropriate.” Is that PC now for stupid? Anyway, yeah, I can see the total equivalence. The soul of transparency is weeping.

  30. 30.

    Steve V

    December 11, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    One of the Blago questions on the site repeats over and over again, so I assume it presumably was supplied by some right wing website. Does anybody know which site is supplying these questions?

  31. 31.

    Chris Johnson

    December 11, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Even though there’s absolutely no suggestion of wrongdoing, stonewalling never works well for a politician—Wolf.

    …wut?

  32. 32.

    Rainy

    December 11, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    I’m sorry is this an important question:

    How can you ensure that Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups get kicked out of the Democratic Party. (I’m paraphrasing)

    This was a question on there. I flagged it and I will flag any Blago question or any question like this. We have more important issues to worry about. Not this stupid shit.

  33. 33.

    TenguPhule

    December 11, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Ben says he is not trying to accuse the Obama team of untoward behavior, and I take him at his word, but a full wingnut Voltron has been formed-

    Form Blazing Wanker!

  34. 34.

    TR

    December 11, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Keep pressing back on this, John. Ben Smith is a decent guy, but he seems surprisingly clueless at how his framing is an enabler for rightwing bullshit.

  35. 35.

    Rainy

    December 11, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Go to the link and read the questions this asshole is submitting.

    http://moderator.change.gov/?embed=http://change.gov/openforquestions#11/e=8&t=aghhc2tvYmFtYXIQCxIIRG9yeVVzZXIY9a4BDA

  36. 36.

    kwAwk

    December 11, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Zifnab says:

    Dear RedState,

    I would love to add my 2-cents in on this issue on your site however, you seem to have banned my account, thus rendering my attempts at adding to the conversation effectively "censored" by your web admin.

    lmao but…. but…. you don’t understand! That is their home! If they let you in where will they find sanctuary from that liberally biased reality?

  37. 37.

    TheFountainHead

    December 11, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Even though there’s absolutely no suggestion of wrongdoing, stonewalling never works well for a politician—Wolf.

    Hed asploshonz.

    I has them.

  38. 38.

    24AheadDotCom

    December 11, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Any time someone uses the same system as BHO is using, it’s an indication that they’re running a scam. Systems like this have the inevitable side-effect of weak questions being voted up while the real questions – the ones that should be asked – are voted down.

    Here’s a question I just posted; I know right now it will never go anywhere except perhaps into the "inappropriate" category. At that post, see the summary with other examples of past attempts in which weak questions were voted up.

  39. 39.

    J.

    December 11, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    The audacity of dopes. I just love a good political corruption scandal, don’t you?

    If political corruption were a Bowl game, it’d be Illinois vs. Louisiana, with only slightly better odds, maybe, on Illinois, because of their current quarterback, Rod "F@*k ’em" Blagojevich.

  40. 40.

    Napoleon

    December 11, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    @Rainy:

    One of his questions:

    "Do you find it bizarre that so many women shave their hoo-has these days?"

    LOL

    Well at least he didn’t ask about Michelle

  41. 41.

    blogenfreude

    December 11, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Hmmm – would I rather have Obama’s people get ready to take power and unfuck everything the Bush administration has fucked up or monitor that website. Hmmm …

  42. 42.

    AnneLaurie

    December 11, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    This is why we can’t have nice things. If someone makes an attempt to be open and listen to the American people fuckwits like Politico will pay more attention to the trolls.

    Truly. After clicking through some 700 questions over there, I am convinced that one reason behind the success of the fast-food industry is that a significant portion of my fellow Americans are too stupid to feed themselves with a fork. The freepers and concern trolls are bad enough, but the general level of cluelessness on display is just… daunting. Leaving aside the clusters of special-interest pleaders (it’s a terrible thing when kids die from cancer, but "diverting more funds" towards research on childhood cancers is not one of the Top 100 immediate priorities, sorry) you’d think that a nation whose citizens made "Jeopardy" a network success could at least figure out how to phrase their personal obsessions in the form of a question. I want to re-label the buttons Reasonable Question, Stupid Question, Who the Fvck Cares, and Questioner Needs Adult Supervision.

  43. 43.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    @TR:

    Harris and Allen, especially Allen, have been experimenting with ways to surreptitious aid wingers from day one at the Politico. Some way to keep their unbiased reporting rep in tact and help the GOP at the same time. Framing articles on shaky pro republican premises has been a stalwart of this effort. Maybe Ben, for whatever reason, has finally got with the program.

  44. 44.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    December 11, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    I think you are misreading Klein’s post at Swampland. I’ll bet a six pack of Smuttynose Old Brown Dog Ale that he is full on mocking all the outrage at Obama.

    @Steve V: Can someone get Dan Bartlett on the horn? I’ll bet he knows where the talking points are coming from.

    Ben Smith should be more careful how he phrases a question.

    John you seem to be in good form today. Did you get a new Steelers jersey and wetsuit?

  45. 45.

    TheFountainHead

    December 11, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Did you get a new Steelers jersey and wetsuit?

    It’s gotta be the puppies.

  46. 46.

    John Cole

    December 11, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Any time someone uses the same system as BHO is using, it’s an indication that they’re running a scam. Systems like this have the inevitable side-effect of weak questions being voted up while the real questions – the ones that should be asked – are voted down.

    Any time someone uses the initials “BHO” for Obama, I know I am dealing with a freeper. Why didn’t you just submit some more questions about his birth certificate? A quick perusal of your site shows how concerned you are about it.

  47. 47.

    DougJ

    December 11, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Second, if your main concerns are the terrible economy, the war, the budget, and the hundred other pressing issues out there, then when faced with the question “Will you explain your true connection to all your corrupt buddies?”, the most blatant of the questions Ben originally caught as flagged, not only do you vote it down, but you would be perfectly warranted to flag it as inappropriate.

    That summarizes it pretty well.

    I worry about Ben. He did a bang up job at the Daily News and was easily the most accessible reporter I’ve ever dealt with as a blogger. But I’m afraid he’s going the way of Tapper (who you may remember started off as a decent reporter on Salon).

  48. 48.

    John Cole

    December 11, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    I think you are misreading Klein’s post at Swampland. I’ll bet a six pack of Smuttynose Old Brown Dog Ale that he is full on mocking all the outrage at Obama.

    Of course he is. The point that even Joe Klein noticed the stupidity. Joe, like me, has a history of being slow on the uptake.

  49. 49.

    DougJ

    December 11, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I think you are misreading Klein’s post at Swampland. I’ll bet a six pack of Smuttynose Old Brown Dog Ale that he is full on mocking all the outrage at Obama.

    He is. Klein is good these days. Weirdly good. I worry that he may know that he is dying of some rare form of brain cancer and he’s trying to make up for all the crap he did in the past.

    But I just watched the Lee Atwater documentary.

  50. 50.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    @24AheadDotCom:

    your question

    You support giving in-state tuition to illegal aliens. But, each such discount given to an illegal alien represents one that’s taken away from a U.S. citizen. What would you say to a U.S. citizen who can’t go to college because of what you support?

    Obama’s proposal

    The DREAM Act will give legal status to illegal immigrants make them permanent residents if they meet the following criteria: must be younger than 16 when they illegally came to the United States; must be in the U.S.A. at least five years prior to the law; must be a high school graduate or GED; and of good moral character. After meeting the criteria and graduating college or vocational school in 6 years, or joining the military, they will be given permanent resident status.

    Your question is dishonest in a couple of ways, First, it implies that all illegal aliens would be eligible, where Obama’s position is that only children who came to America, that were under the age of sixteen, at the behest of their parents illegal crossing could apply.

    Second, there is no evidence or expectation that any American citizen would be denied financial aid from this program. The idea of fairness of this proposal, is the fact that children who come here illegally with their parents, are not culpable for said illegality, and should not be punished for their parents behaviour. I know, that such notions are lost on the wingnut mind, however.

  51. 51.

    TheFountainHead

    December 11, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    @Comrade Stuck: Oh noes!! You quotes THE ACTUAL WORDS! You can’t do that!! Aaaaaaaaaacccccckkkk!

  52. 52.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    December 11, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    @DougJ:

    He is. Klein is good these days. Weirdly good. I worry that he may know that he is dying of some rare form of brain cancer and he’s trying to make up for all the crap he did in the past.

    Call me cynical, but I think he’s just trying to retain his DC insider status. He doesn’t want to rock the boat to soon and get frozen out of the inner circles of power. I might be wrong, but Klein has always loved his status as an insider more than straight reporting.

  53. 53.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    @TheFountainHead:

    Potty training for Baby Elephants. It’s a shitty job , but sombody has to do it.

  54. 54.

    gwangung

    December 11, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Any time someone uses the same system as BHO is using, it’s an indication that they’re running a scam.

    I doubt that.

    Prove your assertion, if you dare.

  55. 55.

    TheFountainHead

    December 11, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    @Comrade Stuck: Potty trained elephants? You could make a killing in Southeast Asia.

  56. 56.

    demimondian

    December 11, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum: Could be. Truth is, as long as he sticks to the truth, good or bad, I don’t care why he does it.

  57. 57.

    demimondian

    December 11, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    @TheFountainHead: I hear he’s actually trying to help them keep their wetsuits clean for longer.

  58. 58.

    D-Chance.

    December 11, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Welcome to Digg burials. A few Obamoperatives can pretty much kill any and every question they don’t like and effectively purge the website as they wish.

  59. 59.

    the farmer

    December 11, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    She’s one of those people who thinks it’s interchangeable with "raise the question." – focality #22

    yes, thats the point Raygun #2 is making. by interchanging "raise the question" for "begging the question" she is actually "begging the question" in its correct sense… without even knowing it.

    *

  60. 60.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    @D-Chance.:

    A few Obamoperatives

    Alright, I like it. Wait till you see our Black Obamop Keyboards. They don’t exist of course, probably, but we couldn’t say if they did.

  61. 61.

    ibid

    December 11, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    You notice he hasn’t had any press conferences since this thing broke…oh, wait. He’s having a press conference tomorrow…

    I am also reasonably certain that this is snark, and Klein didn’t actually remember mid-sentence that Obama was having a press conference, but kept the sentence anyway. Although it’s possible that his backspace key isn’t working.

  62. 62.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    @demimondian:

    Wetsuit cleaning is not included, that is done by @demimondian:

    That’s yer department.

  63. 63.

    24AheadDotCom

    December 11, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Apparently Comrade Stuck lives in a fantasy world where there are limitless resources. In our world, there are only so many college tuition discounts. And, there are always more applicants than there are discounts that are available. That means that each year, some people lose out. And, that also means that any discount that goes to an illegal alien is one that was taken away from a U.S. citizen. It’s simple, kindergarten math. See "musical chairs" for an example, and for an animation of the process, see this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZkvEmSy1vk

    It really is very basic, and if you don’t understand it ask a kindergarten teacher to explain it to you.

    And, as noted at the link in my previous comment, I was limited in the number of characters I could put in the question, otherwise I would have included all of the various legal niceties, none of which have any impact on the fact that what Obama supports would hurt some U.S. citizens by taking away their college educations.

    As for gwangung’s comment, there are two examples of similar systems to the one that BHO is using being scammed here:

    http://24ahead.com/s/popular-voting-systems

    I’m sure he was completely ignorant of how similar systems were scammed in the past, despite being the beneficiary of them. No knowledge at all!

  64. 64.

    TheFountainHead

    December 11, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    And, that also means that any discount that goes to an illegal alien is one that was taken away from a U.S. citizen.

    Bzzt. Try again please. If loan A is funded by law A and loan B is funded by law B and the amount provided for A loans by law A is not changed by the creation of law B, then you are completely wrong.

    Also, how about we do something about the 346% increase in higher education prices over the last thirty years. It’s bad if Obama wants to give some innocent kids a shot at a better education, but not a problem that the education institutions themselves could give a fuck about who gets educated?

  65. 65.

    J.D. Rhoades

    December 11, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    user voting has been a constant source of controversy on non-partisan sites like Slashdot and CodeProject for a decade now.

    Don’t even get me started on the gaming of the Amazon.com ratings system by authors.

  66. 66.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    none of which have any impact on the fact that what Obama supports would hurt some U.S. citizens by taking away their college educations.

    how the fuck can you take away someone’s education? is he proposing lobotomies for graduates?

  67. 67.

    DougJ

    December 11, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    I wonder who 24AheadDotCom is.

    You guys are too easy sometimes.

  68. 68.

    jenniebee

    December 11, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    @Zifnab:

    Good point, Zif. Hey Ben – would it stop being censorship if the "flag this as abusive" link said "assign this user an essay" instead?

  69. 69.

    AnneLaurie

    December 11, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    how the fuck can you take away someone’s education? is he proposing lobotomies for graduates?

    Well, if the new administration succeeds in improving America’s K-12 education system, how else are the fReichtards gonna keep their numbers up?

  70. 70.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    @24AheadDotCom:

    Apparently Comrade Stuck lives in a fantasy world where there are limitless resources.

    Hmmmm. You mean like the near Trillion dollars poured down the Iraq shithole. Or the shithole, where another trillion is being poured on the Financial Markets failure on Bush GOP watch, or non watch for any and all regulation/oversight. Or maybe it’s the 3 trillion in tax breaks for rich people– Bush’s BAse as it were.

    Now tell me more about this fantasy world I’m living in because it seems so real with a looming economic depression, 2 neverending wars, the possible complete loss of our manufacturing base for autos and about every other fucking one that now resides in China, or India, or Bumfuck Egypt.

    Oh, I know, wingnuts like you are rediscovering their fiscal discipline and small gov ways, while pointing out how dems screwed things up so bad. That’s your fantasy world fucknut. I have to live in the real nightmare you and yours created, I sure as hell am not going to entertain your new fantasy one.

  71. 71.

    El Tiburon

    December 11, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    It’s all about the linkies. This is how and why Politico exists, first they suck of Drudge…they will suck off any right-wingnut who gives them a link.

  72. 72.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    @DougJ:

    You guys are too easy sometimes.

    Are you confessing? or are we going to have to bug you?

  73. 73.

    Johnny Pez

    December 11, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Go to the site and do a search for "politico" and you get John’s question plus six identical "why are you censoring this site" questions.

  74. 74.

    Eric U.

    December 11, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    If I could figure out how to find John’s question, I would flag it. Really, reading through the top 20 questions, I want them all answered. I think we know the answer to the questions about Blago, which are that he is scum, and Obama had nothing to do with anything he was doing.

  75. 75.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    by making people fill out a form and provide their personal information, the change.gov site is censoring people who wish to remains anonymous!

    damn you Obama! damn you right to hell!

  76. 76.

    24AheadDotCom

    December 11, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    OK, for the benefit of TheFountainHead and others, let me try to explain how musical chairs and other similar things work (these are advanced topics, so take notes).

    Let’s say that Law A gives out 10 discounts. Now, anywhere you go, when you offer discounts you’re going to get a lot of applicants. So, let’s say there are 20 applicants for those 10 discounts. And, let’s say 1 of those applicants is an illegal alien.

    Now, let’s try two outcomes:
    1. The 10 discounts go to 10 U.S. citizens.
    2. The 10 discounts go to 9 U.S. citizens, but one discount goes to an illegal alien.

    In the second case, the illegal alien took a discount from a U.S. citizen.

    One can certainly support shafting U.S. citizens by taking something away from them in order to give to foreign citizens who are here illegally, and that’s exactly what BHO does support. Why not just admit it?

    And, regarding "Law A" vs. "Law B", the funding of things is almost always in conflict. And, there’s only a finite pool of money available in government budgets.

    It really is simple, but I’m not surprised that some can’t understand it.

  77. 77.

    DougJ

    December 11, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Are you confessing? or are we going to have to bug you?

    It’s not me but it’s one of the Merry Pranksters, I’m pretty sure.

  78. 78.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    @DougJ:

    It’s not me but it’s one of the Merry Pranksters, I’m pretty sure.

    If it is, they’re pretty good as this guy seems more real to me. Anyways, I’m going to pretend he is, cause of the current wingnut troll recession.

  79. 79.

    DougJ

    December 11, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Off topic, sometimes I worry that the GOP will make some kind of a comeback and then I read something like this from Hugh Hewitt and I realize they won’t:

    A particular care must be taken to re-engage the under-25 vote, which has an impact via technology far beyond these voters’ numbers at the polls. Here, conservatives are blessed with some great new journalistic talent in folks such as Guy Benson, Mary Katharine Ham, Ben Shapiro, David Freddoso and Amanda Carpenter. The RNC has to figure out how to push these voices — which will sometimes be critical of the GOP — and others on to college and university campuses, knowing that the freshmen who arrive in the fall of 2009 will be the class of seniors powering both the Obama reelection Web effort in 2012 as well as that of whomever the GOP sends out.

    That’s their plan?

    This was good too:

    Finally, the GOP has to get on the same page, or pages.

    I think Mark Foley tried that and it didn’t work out so well.

  80. 80.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 11, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    @24AheadDotCom:

    Well sir, if the Dream Act or something similar passes and it becomes clear that it is preventing AMerican kids from going to college, which I seriously doubt will happen, then I will join you in calling for corrective action.

    And in the meantime, I will be wondering if your real problem with this is something else entirely. Like say the citizenship provision, ie more democrats for voting wingnuts into oblivion. Those kind of things.

  81. 81.

    ThymeZoneThePlumber

    December 11, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    So, if I understand all this correctly, if I make a diary on Kos and it doesn’t get recommended, they are censoring me?

    THOSE FUCKERS!

    That’s all I have to say on the matter.

  82. 82.

    mapaghimagsik

    December 11, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    So when these idiots all lose their jobs and can’t pay for internet access and drop off, will they regret that they wasted valuable question time on Blago rather than the economy?

  83. 83.

    Rick Taylor

    December 11, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    I thought I posted already but I can’t ind it now, so this may be a double post.

    I can’t get worked up over any of this. It’s looking like Republican’s are going to be able to kill the auto-bailout, and perhaps the auto-industry in this country. It sure is a hell of a time to rediscover their commitment to financial conservatism, right as we’re entering what some economists are saying is looking like the biggest economic disaster we’ve faced since the great depression. The Republican party is bankrupt; we’re faced with the huge challenges, and they have no idea what to do whatsoever, except cut taxes, ban gay marriage, and rediscover fiscal austerity. Hammering away at Blagoyevich is just going to quicken their trip to irrelevance, but they’re doing horrendous damage in the mean time.

  84. 84.

    Blue Raven

    December 11, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    The UFO conspiracy questions are worth the Blagoshit. I love the one that claims he knows a woman who got raped by a government-funded program and is now immune to every STD save herpes.

  85. 85.

    MikeJ

    December 11, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    claims he knows a woman who got raped by a government-funded program

    Is that a HUD in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

  86. 86.

    r€nato

    December 11, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    I am OUTRAGED that Obama does not allow the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" to rise to the top!

    WHAT IS OBAMA TRYING TO HIDE!?!?!?!?!

  87. 87.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    i love that the big brains at RedState think they’re going to catch the Obama team doing something as blatant as violating the 1st Amendment by censoring opposing viewpoints on a .GOV website.

    fuckin amateurs.

  88. 88.

    bago

    December 11, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Re: Shaving the hoo-hah. What can I say, America is tired of bush.

  89. 89.

    r€nato

    December 11, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    my question:

    "Are all the people on here parroting Politico’s asinine allegation that Change.gov/Obama is ‘censoring’ Blagojevich questions, the stupidest humans on the face of the earth who desperately need to get a life, or are they merely pathetic and bitter?"

  90. 90.

    Laura W

    December 11, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    @bago: Talk about good timing!

  91. 91.

    matt

    December 11, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Some of these are hard to categorize:

    Will you PLEASE have the guts to once and for all disclose the TRUTH about UFOs and extraterrestrials? The technology that can be learned from them would forever end economic, environmental, & health-related issues. Thank you.

  92. 92.

    t jasper parnell

    December 11, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    @TheFountainHead:

    Also, how about we do something about the 346% increase in higher education prices over the last thirty years. It’s bad if Obama wants to give some innocent kids a shot at a better education, but not a problem that the education institutions themselves could give a fuck about who gets educated?

    Take a hatchet to the administrative side of higher ed, that’s how. They earn way too much and interfere way too much with education. Oh, also kill distance learning, kill it dead.

  93. 93.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    One can certainly support shafting U.S. citizens by taking something away from them in order to give to foreign citizens who are here illegally, and that’s exactly what BHO does support. Why not just admit it?

    In other words, you support affirmative action for American citizens? After all, you’re arguing that a less-qualified American citizen should always get priority over a more qualified immigrant whose parents brought them here illegally.

  94. 94.

    Echoes sans Bunnies y hombres

    December 11, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    24Ahead is the loser formerly known as Lonewacko, who trolled countless other websites in a pathetic attempt to drive traffic to his shitty, uninspired lameness.

    Should have known…the stupid stench is still there.

    Why the name change?

  95. 95.

    Royston Vasey

    December 11, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Yay! I voted for teh question.
    Badda Bing!

  96. 96.

    cleek

    December 11, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    24Ahead is the loser formerly known as Lonewacko

    oy. i thought the tone was familiar. what a tool.

  97. 97.

    AnneLaurie

    December 11, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Some of these are hard to categorize: "Will you PLEASE have the guts to once and for all disclose the TRUTH about UFOs and extraterrestrials? The technology that can be learned from them would forever end economic, environmental, & health-related issues. Thank you."

    Why I said there should be a button labelled "Questioner Needs Adult Supervision."

    But hey — he gets one point for being polite, at least.

  98. 98.

    NonyNony

    December 11, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    To: John Cole
    Re: Your Update

    On the question posted by you this PM at change.gov, the following applies:

    That is fucking funny.

    Thank you,

    The Toobz

  99. 99.

    Brandon

    December 12, 2008 at 2:25 am

    I fail to understand why everyone always phrases this as "tuition discounts for in state students". From what I’ve seen, they’re anything but, more like "tuition extortion for out of state students".

    As a college student at a UC college in CA, I remember there being a big hullabulloo about the state cutting funding–which meant the universities were responding by admitting fewer out-of-state students. This seemed perplexing to us who knew that out-of-state students paid significantly more.

    However, it is apparently the case that state funding was in large part determined by the number of in state residents that attended, and that the colleges have a mandate to first educate citizens of the state. So the entire situation is inconsistent with "out of state students subsidizing tuition discounts for in state students". That may be what some people call them, but that’s not what they are in reality.

  100. 100.

    bedlam UK

    December 12, 2008 at 6:19 am

    Considering the tinfoil-hat mentality of the right, I’m surprised they haven’t figured that putting their IP addresses, emails and other details on to Obamas site might be a bad idea.

    If I was so damn sure he’s teh evil I would no way want any of my internet info linked to a post about him or his family.

    Have they never seen ‘enemy of the state’ ?

    Shame they didn’t get that paranoid. That would have left normal people to ask real questions ( and the normal nutjobs of course )

  101. 101.

    SFOtter

    December 12, 2008 at 10:38 am

    This is going to be 8 tedious years of the catterwaulling about every little thing and making shit up when they feel like it.

    Why aren’t they ‘the party that cried wolf’ yet?

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    December 12, 2008 at 10:15 am

    […] while that was going on, what are our media elites concerned about? Politico reporters are aghast at the innovative new way the Obama team is trying to answer the country’s questions, Eugene […]

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