Gotta be honest- if I were Rod Blagojevich, there is no way in hell I would resign today:
Not long after the Illinois attorney general, Lisa Madigan, told a national television audience that Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich of Illinois was thinking of possibly resigning here on Monday, the governor’s spokesman broke some news of his own.
Not only was Mr. Blagojevich not resigning, the spokesman, Lucio Guerrero, said, but he was planning to go to work on Monday and study a few bills that might at some point require either his signature or veto — including one that will be hammered out in a special legislative session in Springfield that would strip him of his coveted appointment power over President-elect Barack Obama’s vacated Senate seat.
“He has no plans of resigning today or tomorrow,” Mr. Guerrero said on Sunday. “He still signs bills as governor, and he wants to see details.”
Only a total idiot would resign right now, especially in light of this:
Conventional wisdom holds that U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald ordered the FBI to arrest Rod Blagojevich before sunrise Tuesday in order to stop a crime from being committed. That would have been the sale of the Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.
But the opposite is true: Members of Fitzgerald’s team are livid the scheme didn’t advance, at least for a little longer, according to some people close to Fitzgerald’s office. Why? Because had the plot unfolded, they might have had an opportunity most feds can only dream of: A chance to catch the sale of a Senate seat on tape, including the sellers and the buyers.
The precise timing of Tuesday’s dramatic, pre-dawn arrest was not dictated by Fitzgerald, nor was it dictated by the pace of Blagojevich’s alleged “crime spree.” It was dictated by the Chicago Tribune, according to people close to the investigation and a careful reading of the FBI’s affidavit in the case.
Now, while I understand the desire to just have him gone, and I think the world will be a better place without Blagojevich in a position of power, if I were him, there is no way in hell I would step down. This is all he has left- his position as Governor. He has no friends, he has no money, he has no political allies as Madigan and Quinn are both openly positioning themselves to have the better angle to stick the shiv in, so the only thing going for him is that he still wields considerable authority and enjoys perks as Governor.
If he resigns, he is a sitting duck.
Napoleon
Plus if he resigns he looses that as a barganing chip with the Feds. Only an idiot would do that.
Comrade Peter J
I guess it’s time for Blagojevich to sell his resignation.
Punchy
WTF? The ChiTrib now has its own FBI division?
Huh?
dmsilev
The only way he resigns is if it’s part of a deal with the Feds. Other than that, he’s not going anywhere unless he’s pushed out, either by the state Supreme Court or by the Legislature.
It’s worth noting, though, that the effective power that he wields is decreasing with each passing day. For instance, I really doubt that he can veto anything anymore; there shouldn’t be too much trouble rounding up the votes for overrides.
-dms
dmsilev
@Punchy:
No, it’s that the Trib went public with "Feds wiretapping Blago" a week or so ago, and that pulled the rug out from under the investigation.
-dms
Napoleon
@Punchy:
I am guessing that what they mean is that the Trib was going to break the story which would basically have the effect of shutting the investigation down (well, that presumes that the Gov is smart enough to quit doing anything wrong at that point). It was reported several days ago that the Trib had been sitting on the story at the request of Fitz, and he may have thought that his time was running out.
rob
Totally agree. I always thought this was a tad bit odd that he got arrested for basically talking about the opportunity to "make money" off of this golden egg of a Senate seat Why didn’t the US atty wait until he appointed someone and then got that "someone" on tape saying they agreed to do x,y,z for the seat? Well, whatever -maufactured scandal for the Obama admin by the media seems to be an epic fail.
El Cid
Out of curiosity, though, if he had nominated someone to the Senate seat so that the Feds could catch their prize in the act, wouldn’t that nomination still be legally in force?
If so, then, yeah, they’d have the Guv, but his nominee would be on the way to the Senate, with very little chance of it being deterred (even though some such mechanisms exist, I doubt they’d be successfully deployed).
Reverend Dennis
Quick, Rod, found "Democrats for Palin ’12" and you’ll have both friends and money.
Dave
@El Cid:
The Senate could refuse to seat Blago’s appointment if that scenario occurred.
Chinn Romney
If you were Rod you also would have a better haircut. I can give you the number of the Stylist who does Uncle Mitt if you ever do become Rod. As it stands it doesn’t look like you have enough going on up top to make it worthwhile. Sorry.
El Cid
@Dave: I know that they could; I just bet they would not.
r€nato
I had kind of assumed that the Feds wanted to prevent Blago from appointing somebody to the seat in return for X, as that would make the whole thing much messier with the seat actually occupied.
I have been a bit bothered with the means being employed to get rid of Blago. The attorney general is seeking to have him declared ‘incapacitated’, a provision which clearly only applies to medical incapacity. Governors before have been accused of serious crimes, it does not mean they are incapable of doing their jobs. Stretch this definition this far and it’s not much farther to declare a governor ‘incapacitated’ simply because the opposition in the Legislature doesn’t want to work with him.
I’ve seen speculation in the media by Campbell Brown to the effect of, "why is Blago still allowed to choose Obama’s successor?" Well, Campbell, he is still the governor for better or for worse.
Impeach him, demand his resignation, whatever… but this is not one of those ‘ends justify the means’ situations. And the guy still deserves a trial, no matter how culpable he sounds.
Napoleon
Yes, which is why I think he moved when he did. He didn’t want an appointment to take place.
msskwesq
I knew the moment I read that story about Rod’s lobbyist friend wearing a wire that the Trib was in this thick as thieves. Add the quotes regarding the Wrigley Field deal in the Federal Complaint and it becomes clear what is going on. Sam Zell, owner of the Tribune Media Company, including WGN-TV, the Chicago Cubs and Wrigley Field (also the L.A. Times, the Baltimore Sun, etc.) is a billionaire financier, who took the Tribune Company into bankruptcy earlier this month due to his recklessly leveraging the company within inches of it life. He is trying to dismantle the company and sell it for parts. The deal for Wrigley has been an ongoing negotiation with Blago’s office for the state to provide financing and or buy it outright. Remember Sam Zell endorsed McCain, even though the Editorial Board of the Chicago Trib endorsed Obama. Zell is HATED by most Chicagoans – no one trusts him to have anything but his own interests at heart- certainly not the people of Chicago. I think the Repubs saw ramping up this scandal as a way to get to Obama, through the tried and true "guilt by association" even if Obama did not actually associate with Blago. They want to derail him early and will try everything to impeach him. Fitzgerald is just a pawn as he was in the Plame case.
Watch the Tribune, especially Zell. Something smells really bad there.
Zifnab
The Tribune ran the story sooner than Fitzgerald wanted. And once you’ve got a story about a Governor’s corrupt scheme to sell a Senate seat, that basically compromises the entire case. Didn’t this already happen at least once in "The Wire"?
ThymeZone
I call for USAPantload’s resignation.
Blue Raven
I think you meant "if I were Blago" instead of "if I would Blago." Good morning.
And I agree, though it needs repeating that the Senate seat act was one of several he more obviously committed, including shaking down a children’s hospital. The seat-selling was where he demonstrated that he wasn’t merely content with using the state of IL as a playground.
Cain
haha. John, I love that "search wingnuttia" widget on the top right hand side of the page. It really should be pre-filled though depending on what you’re posting for easy reach of entertainment.
cain
Atanarjuat
Of course Governor Blagojevich should remain in office and not step down. He’s the living, breathing epitome of typical Democratic corruption and malfeasance, and the longer he clings to his job the better the odds that more Republicans will be elected to office in the near future.
In that spirit, thank you, Governor Blagojevich, for this early but very welcome Christmas gift. Conservatives everywhere thank you profusely from the bottom of our hearts.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
@El Cid:
I could be wrong, but I think it’s as illegal to BUY a senate seat as it is to sell one. Something tells me Jesse Jackson, Jr. has someone looking out for him.
OriGuy
Can you do something so that links to wingnut sites show up in a different color? I don’t want to clink on a link when I’m not paying attention to the status bar and end up someplace scary like Michelle Malkin’s site. Maybe add a "wingnut" class to the CSS.
Gravenstone
@Atanarjuat:
You wouldn’t recognize a Conservative (not to be confused/conflated or otherwise folded, spindled or mutilated with Republican) if one walked up and bit you on your trollish ass.
passerby
and
WTF is right! Since when does a US atty have to bow to the media?!? Isn’t there some power, like a gag order, or threat of obstruction of justice charge that can be used to control the investigation?
jenniebee
@El Cid: they needed to catch him sealing the deal to nominate, not issuing the official nomination.
r€nato
of course conservatives are grateful for Blago.
It distracts the media from talking about how Senate Republicans ratfucked the American economy last week.
jake 4 that 1
New fReichtard talking point: "OMG! The Obama controlled media spoiled the investigation!1"
Bet you $500.
passerby
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
I had the same thought. The way politics works in Chicagoland ( and elsewhere ), it seems logical to speculate about the Trib’s motives and JJJr would be the beneficiary of cutting the investigation short.
ps: I agree, Blago would be a fool to resign. He should circle his wagons and sit tight because he’s in a world of shit and as a duly elected state official, it’s all he’s got. He knows he’s going down.
Keith
I call that a "severance package"
demimondian
@El Cid: Under the circumstances, the Senate would either refuse to seat the nominee, or, having seated him or her, would have immediately voted to expel. Blago’s power is greatly overstated right now; his appointment is probably toxic.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
He’s a sitting duck no matter what he does, it’s just a question of when the oven gets turned on and the orange sauce preparation begins.
Bootlegger
A sitting turduken perhaps?
I see Attanut cheering from the sideline for more corruption in American politics. You Republicans are so precious, you haven’t changed a bit (but I guess that’s the point isn’t it).
Comrade Ed Drone
Bottoms of your whats? Hearts? Are you serious? Even trolls know better than that!
Ed
demimondian
@passerby: There’s this thing called the "First Amendment". It’s a part of the "Constitution". Fitz appears to have asked the paper to hold the story, but he knew enough to know that he had no permanent leverage, and that eventually the Trib would publish.
Nice fifth-columnist swipe, though.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
@jake 4 that 1:
$500 for something that would most likely happen? You clearly don’t know how to set betting lines. Is your mortgage in that much trouble?
The Moar You Know
@Atanarjuat: Got tired of the "USA Patriot" handle already, eh?
At any rate, you’re absolutely correct; Blagalphabet is not helping the Democratic party at all, and the Republican owned-and-operated media is doing their damndest to hang this around Obama’s neck. Worse yet, in spite of Blagalphabet’s calling Obama a "motherfucker" and stating in plain English that Obama would "give him nothing but appreciation", the attempts to smear Obama with this are getting traction.
You gotta envy the GOP talking points machine. Hitler himself couldn’t get this many people to march in line and spout the same rhetoric at the same time.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
@passerby:
True passerby, but I was thinking more along the lines that if the seat were purchased by Jackson, he might very well have ended up sharing a cell in the same prison as Blago.
Bootlegger
The purpose of the echo chamber is to repeat something often enough that it becomes true by fiat. This particular case is even more cynically pernicious because they are creating the impression that there is something "there" to investigate by simply repeating it over and over. There is no, repeat no, evidence that Obama or his team did anything untoward but reality can’t stop the echo.
There is a reason why we assume innocence rather than the other way around, though I expect that distinction is lost on our anti-intellectual countrymen.
passerby
@demimondian:
First of all, I’ll admit to ignorance before I allow you to accuse me of scorn for Constitutional rights. : P
Secondly, how the sam hill can investigations be conducted successfully if "free speech" is allowed to interfere? The Tribune is NOT an official document and can as easily crank out lies as report "facts". No veracity.
passerby
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Exactly. The investigation was cut short so they don’t have the goods on whichever candidate was going to pay-to-play. Presumably it was Candidate 5 (JJJr)
And what Msskqwesk said:
demimondian
@passerby:
Sorry, puppy, that’s what the law says. There’s this interesting doctrine of "prior restraint of the press" — look up "The Pentagon Papers" if you want to learn about it — and it’s forbidden.
It’s nice that you admitted to both ignorance and scorn for Constitutional rights, though. Saves trouble in identifying you for the Quisling you are.
TheFountainHead
I read the indictment, but I can’t say I understand what the actual legal ramifications are for Blago here. Sure, he’s an idiot, and a scumbag by all accounts, but what State/Federal laws has he broken at this point?
Conspiracy to defraud the government?
demimondian
@TheFountainHead: Actually, yes, that’s one of the charges on the sheet: he was conspiring to defraud the State of Illinois of his honest service.
The Moar You Know
@passerby: The press has blown many a case for law enforcement. It is their Constitutional perogative. Somehow the Republic survives.
Do you live in a hole with no TV, radio, or newpapers? The media lies about almost everything, all the time. Especially Democrats.
tavella
Depends. If it was strictly limited to Jackson raising money for his campaign, within campaign laws, I’d find it extremely dodgy charging Jackson with anything. If that’s illegal, then Obama, Hillary Clinton, and a whole lot of politicians of every party should be in jail.
Zifnab
Generally speaking, the politicians will go to the press and politely ask them to refrain from publication until the investigation is complete. Alternately, the lead attorney can seek a gag order or injunction from a judge to prevent leaks of information that could jeopardize the case.
Ultimately, however, the press has the freedom to print what they please when they please. I would think the Tribune – itself a target of Blago’s abusive conduct – would have been more happy to work with Fitzgerald. Not sure why they released it when they did. Maybe a rival paper was going to release it first and the Tribune decided the cat was already out of the bag. Or maybe they didn’t care about Fitz’s investigation once they decided he had it wrapped up. :-p Your guess is as good as mine.
demimondian
@Zifnab: That’s actually the odd point. I suspect loose cannons within Fitz’s office — Fitz felt that it was time to stop things, and some of his assistants wanted to keep going, hoping to catch the sale in process. It would be a tough balancing act — if the sale was caught on tape,it would be golden. On the other hand, if the sale happened out of sight of the cameras, it would be too late to stop, even if everyone involved was eventually convicted.
I suspect that there was a heated meeting over the decision to pounce.
passerby
@The Moar You Know:
No. I don’t live in a hole. I gave up cable 3 years ago. I don’t read newspapers. I don’t listen to radio. Because, to borrow your words, "the media lies about almost everything, all the time" and I think I’m allergic to propaganda.
kay
This whole thing no longer makes any sense to me.
Blago has the same leverage with Fitzgerald whether he’s in office or not: he has information to trade implicating others, or he doesn’t.
What additional leverage does staying in office offer Blago re: Fitzgerald?
Why does Fitzgerald care, in terms of his case, whether Blago resigns? Fitzgerald doesn’t have any particular duty to worry about the implications of Blago staying in office. That’s the Illinois Statehouse’s problem, or the US Senate’s problem, or the Democratic Party’s problem. His duty in stopping a pay to play appointment ended with the arrest.
It’s not his problem. At this point, Blago has information to trade or he doesn’t.
TenguPhule
And yet the New York Times sat on a story for Bush to help him in 2004.
Liberal Media my ass.
passerby
@tavella:
Agreed. It would be more difficult to assign guilt to any candidate aspiring to be a US senator. Raising campaign money is done all the time, scratch my back I’ll scratch yours.
Are they to be faulted that corrupt forces were in charge of the process? Sure, they could turn whistle-blower but they’d pay a steep political price given that the system has been running this way a long time.
TenguPhule
Ironically, the $50 billion ponzi scheme looks to suck all the oxygen out of this non-story and turn it back where it belongs. On Republican Fat Cats who steal from friends and charities.
We may see some Death Sentences yet.
demimondian
@tavella: Not at all. It depends on *why* Jackson or his associates were raising money for Blagojevich. There are rumors that JJJr had associates who were explaining a fund-raiser as pay-back for getting Jackson appointed; if so, then the deal had already been struck, and there really wasn’t any reason for Fitz to wait any longer.
It’s also quite possible that Jackson’s people felt that the trade was a reasonable instance of "you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours," in which Jackson got help with his career in return for Blagojevich getting help with his. That’s not necessarily illegal in the broader sense; in fact, if Jackson felt that he would have gotten appointed anyway, and raised money as a "thank you", instead of a quid pro quo, it’s quite probably legal. In that case, Blago could be guilty of accepting a bribe that Jackson was innocent of offering, since the difference lay in the two men’s intents.
Cain
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
mmmmm.. yum. blago with orange sauce. er.. actually that doesn’t sound too appetizer.. like vomit and orange sauce or something. yuck.
cain
Church Lady
As far a Blago is concerned, I fail to see the crime. The stupidity, yes – the crime, no. He talked about quid pro quo for the Senate appointment with Harris and others, but he actually never did anything. All it involved was talk. If every elected official could be charged with a crime for asking "What’s in it for me?," our jail cells could convene legislative sessions.
Someone screwed the pooch on this one by forcing Fitzgerald to make the arrest too soon. All that’s on tape that I have read is a lot of different players talking about what they could possibly do or might want to do. No one involved actually did anything. No money changed hands and no appointment was made in exchange for anything.
If I were the governor, I would appoint someone before the power to do so was stripped from me. But, I would appoint someone that would actually be a good choice and was not one of the potential candidates mentioned in the indictment, someone with no taint associated with this entire mess. What could anyone do about it? I wouldn’t think the Senate would reject a viable appointment made just because Blago made it, when the appointee was clean.
And Blago looks better, because he appoints a qualified person, while receiving nothing for the appointment.
Reverend Dennis
@kay:
What doesn’t make sense to me is that Blagojevich is in his second term. I can only surmise that his his first term was consumed with taking an inventory.
TheFountainHead
Okay, so excuse my ignorance/weak google-fu, but what are the penalties, assuming a conviction?
Reverend Dennis
@Church Lady:
Try Solicitation of Bribery.
Judging by this and your other posts, if you were the governor Illinois would look a lot like Bangla Desh.
demimondian
@Church Lady: Um…in this case, talking is the crime, which lies in the act of *asking* for (or even in conspiring with associates to ask for) the bribe. Taking the bribe is a separate crime. (Yup. Two for the price of one, bay-bee.)
JR
The Moar You Know says: You gotta envy the GOP talking points machine. Hitler himself couldn’t get this many people to march in line and spout the same rhetoric at the same time.
Actually the fascists did get this many to march in line, and you are close to hitting upon something very key …
demimondian
@TheFountainHead: Heck if I know. I only know the contents of the charge sheet because my fourteen-year-old was curious about the whole thing last Tuesday — and the google-fu is very strong in that one. So then I had to explain it to him as he read it.
kay
@Reverend Dennis:
I’ve been reading a little about him. He had a weak opponent.
Here’s what I really think, when I drop my OUTRAGE!!!!
There is lots and lots of corruption at the state level that ordinarily stays in-state. This garnered wide attention because of Fitzgerald and Obama, and because it fits the corrupt Chicago theme.
And because there’s a tape. They ordinarily don’t tape the state-level yahoos.
Napoleon
My understanding is that with the DOJ, it is standard procedure to make a public official resign as part of a plea. It may not even be in Fitzgeralds discretion to let him stay. The most recent example I can think of is the mayor of Detroit who was forced to resign.
Napoleon
PS, by the way read the NY Times piece today on the Gov. What a piece of work he is.
kay
@Napoleon:
Thank you. Now it makes more sense.
Cyrus
@The Moar You Know:
I don’t know, are they really? His approval ratings are still fine, I think.
Church Lady
@demimondian- Yes, I understand, but from everything I’ve read, they don’t have him on tape actually making an agreement with a specific person for something in exchange for the appointment of a specific candidate. Am I missing something? As I said, the "what’s in it for me" mentality runs strong through our elected officials.
@Reverend Dennis – Who exactly did he solicit in exchange for an agreement to receive exactly what? As I said, lots of talk with others about what he would like to get, lots of talk about who might be able to give him something, but no actual agreement made with anyone for anything.
Would he have done it if he had not been stopped? I’m sure he would have and that would have been a crime. Did he actually commit a crime? I’m just not sure. It just seems to me that all his talk, talk, talk was with people who didn’t actually have the power/ability to deliver anything.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
@tavella:
Wrong! When a campaign asks for contributions the money goes into a campaign fund to be used on the campaign, they do not go to "Mr. and Mrs. Candidate" to be spent on homes, cars, yachts, pleasure cruises, personal entertainment expenditures, what have you. Those are called gifts, they have specific guidelines of what can be given, and how much. Candidates can’t even accept free food in some cases, you think the guidelines would allow someone to collect a several hundreds of thousands, possibly even a million dollars or more legally? Not a chance. The people who usually spend money on those gifts are considered lobbyists, they want personal favors in return for said exchange, there are laws regarding what they can ask for too. I’m not sure about raising requested funds for a governor to be accepted for a senate seat appointment, but, that sure sounds like lobbying to me.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t have the indictment in front of me, but doesn’t it state something to the affect that the money requested was supposed to go for personal use by Blago and his instigating wife?
kay
@Cyrus:
They are, he’s at 67% approval, but 45% believe he "or his team" had "some involvement".
It was inevitable. A solid week of linking the names takes a toll. If I know it, and I do, then Obama + Team surely know it. They’ll have to handle this, and subsequent scandals and controversy, because they aren’t going to reinvent the media. I’m glad they aren’t whining about the media. I know the cable screamers deserve ridicule, but claiming unfair treatment by the media 1. reminds me of the Right, and 2. doesn’t work.
Church Lady
@CIRCVS- Blago needs campaign funds. That’s how he has been paying his legal fees. To date, over a million paid to seome law firm and he still owes them over $750K. And they’re not even representing him anymore.
Napoleon
@kay:
By the way, actually it is not only resign but they are then barred from holding any public office for some period of time (which maybe forever).
I think that Fitzgerald was genuinely personally offended by Gov. B. and I could see him potentially taking a deal that results in little or no jail time if he can get him out of office now and barred forever from office on the theory the guy is a walking public office crime spree and it is in the public interest to get him out now.
passerby
@Napoleon:
Thanks for the heads up.
NYT:
After reading the article, I can’t help imagining that Sara Palin
is of the same stripe. Delusional and ambitious.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
I understand mail and wire fraud are also part of the charges.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Wrong, the indictment stated that if he couldn’t get the funds he was requesting for the seat, he was considering appointing himself to the seat. No funds needed, just "parachuting" into the seat, as he called it.
Paying legal fees is not campaign funds, I don’t know where you get that idea from. Those are personal funds paid to a lawyer or lawyers to keep his personal ass out of jail.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Church Lady, that you consider campaign funds to be okay to pay for his lawyers, I think, is part of the problem. Campaign funds are meant to pay for campaign funds and legal expenses directly associated with campaigns, not Blago’s attempts to keep his dirty schemes from putting him in jail. If he paid for lawyers to keep him clean from campaign funds, that sounds like more dirty dealing, at least to me. Why don’t you stop to think about that? And why is Mrs. Blago involved, if this lawyer money was on the up and up? She’s not governor.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
It was an analogy, not a page out of "To Serve Man".
Church Lady
@CIRCVS -According to today’s New York Times, Blago’s "campaign records" show that to date it has paid 1 million dollars to the law firm of Winston & Strawn (who no longer represent him) and "records" (I assume campaign records), as of June 30, show that he still owes them more than $750K. Either you are wrong, or the Times is.
Church Lady
I never said it was ok to use campaign funds, I just said that he was. And, as recollection serves, every single public official that I can recall being in legal trouble of some sort in conjunction to their office uses campaign funds to pay their legal fees. It may be reprehensible, but it appears not to be illegal. I guess the rationale is that the legal troubles stem from the office.
Hey, I’m not defending the guy. He is scum and Illinois would be a better place without him in office. All I did was question whether or not a crime took place that can result in a conviction. Like I said, it seems it was just a lot of talk and wishful thinking on Blago’s part, talk and wishful thinking happening between people that did not have the power to make anything concrete happen and that did not actually result in anything concrete occuring.
Ash Can
@kay: You’ve pretty well nailed it. His opponent when he was re-elected, Judy Baar-Topinka, was a well-established and well-respected state treasurer, but was enormously outspent in the campaign and wasn’t afraid to trade hit for hit in what many Illinois voters thought was a particularly rancorous campaign. People tuned out after a while, and voted along their usual comfortable party lines.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
The question is WHY did he need all these legal fees? What was the purpose, was it for the campaign?
I’m doing a search on his legal fees now. According to Huffington Post, a CBS station is reporting that the money was supposed to go for mortgage payments on at least two homes as well. Huffington Post’s story also quotes an advocate who states these legal fees are personal debts and quotes: "Blagojevich owes $750,000 in first and second mortgages on his Chicago home, another $150,000 on a Washington condo, and $500,000 in legal fees and if he decides to fight his latest legal problems, Canary says corruption cases can cost millions of dollars."
If these legal fees are for corruption charges, they are NOT campaign legal fees. Just because he was pulling money from a campaign fund to pay the lawyers does not make it so.
I will do more research on this and get back to you though.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
I suppose if I announced here on this blog that I wanted to kill someone and asked if anyone wanted to help me, you think I haven’t committed a crime because the killing didn’t yet take place? Do you know what conspiracy is? Do you know what fraud is? Do you know what collusion is?
Apparently he approached people to let them know he wanted money for consideration. Are you stating that’s not a crime?
tavella
Er, exactly what part of "strictly limited to Jackson raising money for his campaign, within campaign laws" maps to "be spent on homes, cars, yachts, pleasure cruises, personal entertainment expenditures"? If Jackson raised money for illegal purposes and knew it, then of course it would be a crime. If he just appeared a bunch of legal Blagojevich fundraisers, then he’d be doing what a thousand politicians before him have done. Maybe you can construct it as a crime, yes, but it would scream selective prosecution to me.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Minneapolis Star-Tribune quotes in their story that he was heard on the tapes saying he was struggling financially, and they discuss his wife’s income loss for her brokering in the real estate market.
The indictment stated they were looking to benefit personally, not just for legal fees. This is about more than just the legal fees, and the piece referenced above states the fees are for corruption charges (the fees coincide with the dates he was under investigation).
So granted, I don’t live in IL, have never lived in IL and perhaps the campaign can pay for his corruption charges out of his funds (seems wrong to me, but, not my call) – but there were other considerations, their mortgages, the wife’s loss of income, him stating he was struggling financially.
Would you like me to continue on this or are you satisfied?
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
How about that "I expect you to do this if you want the senate seat" part? That’s illegal. That’s why he’s been indicted, if you don’t like it, talk to Fitzgerald, not me.
I never implied that Jackson was expected to be soliciting funds for Blago’s personal use, but that Blago was, as the indictment states.
tavella
Again, you appear to be arguing a point I’m not making. The question is, would Jackson be properly charged _if he only raised money legally for Jackson_. You keep going off on Blagojevich’s fantasies instead. I’m not talking about what crimes *Blagojevich" might be charged with.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Tavella, perhaps that’s because I wrote that to Church Lady? Hello? Granted, I didn’t put an @ in the post, but, you do see me arguing with another person here, don’t you?
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Also Church Lady, remember, we have an IL governor who is himself governed under IL law but the charges involve a senate seat which is Federal law, so there is going to be confusion as to what is what. Blago had to work under IL law while there are specific instructions on how that senate seat can be treated which are Federal mandates, not just dealing with the scope of his IL guidelines.
MNPundit
I kind of hope he appoints himself. It would be disaster but man, would that entertaining.
passerby
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Thanks for the link Circvs. This tidbit is cogent:
demimondian
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII: Yes. Fitz and his folks found some incredibly creative nails to pound into Blago’s feet.
I’m glad that Fitz is one of the good guys…
demimondian
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII: FWIW, I thought that the grand jury hadn’t actually indicted Blago yet? It was my understanding that there was a charge sheet, and that an arrest warrant had been issued, but that no indictments had been forthcoming…yet.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Church Lady:
I didn’t see a link to the article you referenced, I took your word on it and I started a search to see what other information was out there. I then take a look at this Salon article which states:
So it sounds like you didn’t represent the entire story either, did you?
I have now looked at the original article, which mentions the mortgages and construction loans, mentions his personal financial struggle, mentions that he stated he wanted money and was considering putting himself in the senate seat to get more benefit out of it (legal apparently, but, are we sure that was all it was?) and an interesting addition, the article also has this surprising tidbit:
No claim any further? The affidavit included in the indictment was regarding recordings that were made just in the previous two months. Either Blago paid off the legal bills in a hurry or he was using the legal bills as an excuse for even more person financial gain.
I’m done. If you’re not convinced, that is your own situation to deal with.
The Grand Panjandrum
Does anyone have a link to this alleged indictment of Blago? It was my understanding the USA filed a criminal complaint and arrested him but that no indictment had been handed down as of yet. There is a big difference between and criminal complaint and an indictment. No?
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Demi, do you actually know what an indictment is?
Washington Post uses the term as well:
Do you need a dictionary definition (found at Dictionary.com)?
Indictment:
noun
1. a formal document written for a prosecuting attorney charging a person with some offense
2. an accusation of wrongdoing; "the book is an indictment of modern philosophy"
Perhaps this will help you?
Oh, were you thinking of conviction, perhaps?
I’m sorry, this seems idiotic to me, tell me you didn’t seriously not know what an indictment is, I’ve got more faith in you than that demi, seriously.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
The pdf file that John linked to with the attached affidavit that has the word "fuck" including all of it’s variations included about 26 times IS the indictment.
demimondian
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII: Actually, yes, I do what an indictment is. It’s a set of charges *brought forth by a Grand Jury specifying exactly what a defendant will face*. The difference between that and a charge sheet (or criminal complaint) is a nice one, but quite critical; a judge issues a warrant on the strength of a complaint and supporting documentation. You need a complaint to arrest someone, and an indictment to bind them over for trial (unless they waive indictment in open court). They ain’t the same thing.
There’s a nice summary of the state of affairs as of last Wednesday here, if you’re curious.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Well, I’m not the only one who is using that term. He was charged, just because he was not held over does not mean he was not indicted. He was in jail. The Washington Post uses that term, so does U.S. News & World Report, as well as the New York Times, and a whole host of other people as I’ve linked to.
If you don’t like the term, complain to those who are paid to write that an indictment exists, not me.
Just because you haven’t seen a judge’s signature doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. The charges were filed, the paperwork states that the document is filed in a federal court, a federal prosecutor produced it and it lists charges including a 70+ page affidavit of wiretap transcripts. Argue the validity of the word with someone else.
ThymeZone
Google has be our frend.
Indictment can be formal or informal. In the US it is customary in most jurisdictions that formal indictments are the product of a grand jury process.
Almost any collection of charges and the details that go with them can be called an indictment in common usage.
Continue …..
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Which is exactly what the dictionary states, now, can we continue?
Whether he has been through a formal indictment process, I don’t know, but, the document IS the indictment.
Church Lady
I think conspiracy requires that two (or more) people actually conspire to do something illegal. If I ask if someone can kill my husband, I haven’t broken the law. I just asked a question. If I make an agreement with someone to kill my husband, I have conspired with them to commit an illegal act, even though the illegal act has not occurred, and have in fact broken the law.
The governor asked around about getting something in exchange for Obama’s vacant Senate seat. He talked with aides about what he wanted get and how he might get it. He talked to outsiders (the union guy comes to mind) about how he might get something out of any potential appointment and what he might like to get. But, from what I have read, he never actually struck a deal with anyone for anything.
Would he have sold the seat, or agreed to, if anyone had stepped up with what he wanted/needed? I have no doubt. As I stated before, he seems pretty scummy, and I doubt his better angels would have stopped him from actually going through with it if he had been able to arrange a quid pro quo with someone. I just questioned if what he had actually done, at the point of his arrest, was really a crime? Fitzgerald has had this guy under investigation for what, something like two years, and the best he could come up with is this? I guess my question (did he actually commit a crime) will be answered when Fitzgerald secures an indictment.
Church Lady
Now, as I argue in ignorance, is the moment I wish I hadn’t quit law school after the first year.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
So what you’re saying is that you think he was just putting out feelers and that he wasn’t really going to use Pay for Play tactics to fill the seat? (the impression I got from that one paragraph, I know better after reading the rest of your post, but that is what it sounded like).
Sorry, Fitzgerald ordered his phones to be tapped, there are transcripts with him having numerous conversations regarding how he was going to get payment for the seat. You obviously haven’t read the transcripts.
Are you aware that he was very brazen about this and was telling people he wanted money for the seat? Perhaps that’s the piece of information you are missing. Yes, he colluded with those he talked to (or tried to) whether they were doing it for his benefit or their own does not matter.
demimondian
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII: That’s not what I asked — nice jackalope, though. I specifically asked *whether he had actually been indicted*. There is only one correct answer to that, and that answer is "no".
demimondian
@ThymeZone: Which is utterly irrelevant here — Rome’s usage was incorrect, and you and I both know it.
jerry
Blagojevich is as good as gone anyway, whether or not he resigns.
Speaker Madigan spent the past 6 days whipping up the votes to ensure that impeachment not only passes, but is supported by a majority of Democrats, and that the Senate will vote to remove, with a majority of Democrats voting to remove.
If the sitting Democratic Governor is going to be removed from office by a Democratic legislature, you can make damn certain that Speaker Michael Madigan is going to make certain that it’s the Democrats who are responsible for his removal and not Republicans.
When you make it clear that you Police your own, you limit electoral damage from corruption.
So, whether it’s AG Madigan’s suit to declare the Gov incapacitated or the Legislature impeaching and removing, it will be a Democrat pushing Blagojevich’s removal.
Republicans jump to defend their corrupt members. Democrats jump to hold the corrupt accountable.
Speaker Madigan’s been building an impeachment case for nearly a year. This is just the icing on the cake.
So, now the only question is how long until Governor Quinn appoints…Tammy Duckworth to be the next Senator from Illinois. Every Democratic politician in the State hearts Tammy Duckworth. It’s about the only thing they can agree on.
Even if it gives the rank and file heartburn.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
demi, I never stated he was indicted. You will never see anywhere that I stated he was, YOU are the one putting words in my mouth.
The document is the indictment, and when he is indicted, that document will be the document used. After there is a signature, you will agree that the document is the indictment, but you’re trying to prevaricate upon the difference between the process of indicting (which I never alluded to) and the paperwork (which is the indictment, and will always be the indictment unless new charges are added and the paperwork redrawn).
I have a question for you:
In my recent experience, I’ve researched documents that are not federal records, which are filed, exercised, documented, the cases are litigated and yet the judge never actually signed the records, can you tell me how this can be?
Northern Observer
The more I read the less certain I am of Blago’s guilt.
passerby
jerry @106:
They (the dems) want to have someone who can get elected during the next cycle. I read where some pundits pooh poohed a Duckworth candidacy but, as you pointed out, lots of people heart Tammy and I’d bet the Senate dems would gladly bring her up to speed during the interim if she were to go to DC. The support would be there for her.
What will happen and who will Quinn select? This process is very interesting (and entertaining) to watch.
kay
@Northern Observer:
I’m withholding judgment myself. The last 8 years have made me wary of OUR LEGAL PROCESS, and maybe more importantly, our media-pundit-trial process.
Never hurts to wait for the facts.
ThymeZone
Oh no, it’s relevant. And correct. And I basically just restated what anyone can google for themselves.
As for Circus’ usage … the only usage I noted was that the "indictment" published by Fitz was, um, the indictment. It’s my opinion that this mistake of nomenclature was made by the press, and almost universally aped by all the various outlets. Whereas in fact, the actual document was a criminal complaint, and not an actual indictment.
A simple google lookup and blurbquote such as I just made here would have cleared it up.
If clearing it up were what you were after. Nobody’s usage here was incorrect. What was incorrect was that the document was widely referred to in original reports as an indictment, when in fact, it was not an indictment. Any allegation can be called an indictment, but that does not make a document into a formal, legal indictment. The thing was called an indictment rather carelessly by the media. It is, informally, an indictment, but it is not a legal indictment with its attendant legal process.
Of course, what are a few facts to a media like ours?
passerby
kay @ 110:
Though Blago’s bald face efforts to cash in stink to high heaven, the revelation that the trap may have been sprung too soon due to the Tribune’s coming out with the story of the investigation and Church Lady’s questions about the actual crime has got me wanting more information.
Also, the involvement of AG Madigan, daughter of IL Speaker Michael Madigan lends itself to even deeper political intrigue.
Juicy stuff.
ThymeZone
Upon further review, it looks to me like the purpose of the document published last week was to derail the Blago Extortion Express before it produced a senate nomination, rather than a careful process that was intended to produce an indictment and a successful prosecution.
Which is what some wag said on MSNBC a week ago, making him (whoever he I was, I forget) look pretty smart.
The only thing I know for sure is that it wasn’t Professor Irwin Corey.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
You asked a faulty question, because I was referencing the word indictment as a noun (a document, and it is an indictment) and you were referencing a verb, a process of indicting, which I never alluded to, so it was your jackalope, not mine.
Since you refuse to answer the question I asked you (probably afraid to admit you don’t know the answer, let me help you):
With the fact that we waste so much paper these days, and those records take up space that is growing by leaps and bounds, document storage of legal records is going electronic. While this is happening, there is a new practice going on which is a digital signature, when the paper is drawn up, where the judge’s signature would normally be, the symbol /s/ and the name of the judge is placed next to it, and THAT is considered a judge’s signature in certain legal document storage facilities now. The fact is, the signature date on the paperwork in question is December 7th, 2008 and it is very possible that just because the document doesn’t have a signature on it doesn’t mean the indictment (verb) didn’t occur. Now, we know it did not, because Blago is still allowed to make make decisions in the capacity of his job… but you stated above that a judge’s signature would have to be on the records, and that simply isn’t true. The signature date may be changed later, but the documentation can still be used.
I used to research federal records as well, which are still kept physically in the area where I did research (unfortunately, I am not in Chicago or I could go down to their federal courthouse and look at the paperwork myself), but the court I spent time in (and all the rest, as they are all linked and federally run) are working towards electronic storage, so it’s very possible that the practice I alluded to above will be also put to use by federal storage facilities in the not too distant future. There may very well come a day when judges no longer actually sign any of the documents. They will litigate and a mark will be placed on the records stating they presided over such and such case. That’s all.
ThymeZone
This is correct, but I would just add, that the exact protocol and rule is set by the court with jurisdiction, typically, the state supreme courts who set the rules of procedure in their various states.
In the case of the Blago case, we are talking Federal, and I don’t know where the taxonomy of federal rules of criminal court procedure comes from. Perhaps some failed lawyer who blogs a lot, like myEyeQzero could clue us in?
The Grand Panjandrum
@ThymeZone: Thanks TZ. The way indictment was being used in this thread I thought a grand jury had been convened and an indictment handed down since Fitzpatrick’s press conference.
ThymeZone
Almost everyone thought that. But I dimly remember the MSNBC guy last week saying that Fitz had rushed this out before an indictment in order to "freeze" Blago. I missed the true significance of this at the time, but I know I heard it.
TenguPhule
And yet this same person thinks she knows what to do with the auto bailout.
The stupid, it burns with the hate of thousand blazing suns.
ThymeZone
I am reminded of this great joke:
Man goes to police to report that his wife is trying to poison him. They tell him that they will talk to her and get back to him.
The police return, and the detective says, "Well, we talked to your wife."
The complaining husband says, "Well, what do you think?"
Says the cop, "I think you should take the poison."
kay
@passerby:
She’s daughter, huh? I assumed "wife".
The WSJ had defense attorney experts opining the day after the arrest. They had some good questions. Then the media madness began, and all of that got lost.
It’s funny. I feel as if I LOST trials by media during the Clinton and then Bush years. I was on the Clinton side, and then contra Bush. I felt as if Obama was losing this trial by media.
I reject the forum. I can wait for the trial.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
TZ, the federal courts are already planning to do electronic storage, they just are slower at getting there. Whether they employ the new markings, I can’t say, but, I am sure rules set many moons ago didn’t have electronic storage in mind when they were drawn up and they may have to implement some new protocol (just as the lower courts did). I’m not saying they definitely will, only that they might.
Viewing federal records is a trip, actually, there is a LOT of handwriting to read through.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
One thing I should add, since they started online storage in 2005, they changed the way they identify the parties in question so the identifiers I needed were found on almost every online case. I didn’t need to go down and retrieve those records very often, and I didn’t notice anything in the ones I looked at (of course, the info I was looking for was not the judge’s signature either). The bulk of records I physically looked at were pre-2005.
Comrade grumpy realist
a "conspiracy to commit X" doesn’t need to carry out "X" in order to contain the necessary actus reus; the act of deciding to commit the conspiracy can be enough. (Decision demonstrated by approaching other people and talking to them about the sale.)
I think Fitz et al. are going to argue that it’s possible to have demonstrated the necessary actus reus for a conspiracy even before having found someone willing to plunk down the $$ for the seat. Though am also sure they’d much prefer having caught them in the act.
passerby
@kay:
I am enjoying the fact that corruption is being laid bare–where ever it may be.
We are all sitting in the peanut gallery on this and I don’t mind passing the the time playing "You Make the Call". No one’s got all the facts [unless someone on Fitzg’s team or the trib’s editorial board are lurking and commenting here], and I wouldn’t have any fun if I worried about being right all the time.
So join in and take your best shot. We’re not on record.
Here’s the way I see it so far:
1. Blago is a ham-handed pol, maybe delusional.
2. Blago has no political support right now, just enemies and a staff that’s jumping ship like rats.
3. Blago has financial troubles and is desperate for money.
3a. Blago’s wife, daughter of a well known, seasoned
politician is probably a shrill shrew who would extort money without giving it a second thought.
4. The Chicago Tribune has inserted itself into an important, high-profile case by tipping the US atty’s hand.
5. The Chicago Tribune, like all publications now, is in financial pain.
6. The IL AG is the daughter of the IL speaker of the house.
7. The wax on JJJr’s wings is melting from being tied so closely to this mess.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Sorry to confuse you TGP, I tried to reiterate over and over that it was just the document itself that I was referencing. If/when an actual indictment occurs, that document (or one with the same information and perhaps some new added information) will be used, and after the process is finished, demi will have no problem calling it an indictment. It’s just the timing involved and the process which has not yet occurred which made for heated debate. Technically the paperwork is an indictment (noun – a document of facts that will be used in an indictment – verb). It is confusing, and right now there are a bunch of media sources that are reporting both that he has been indicted and that he hasn’t. To be quite honest, I was not aware of this until I went looking for it, but, as I was only referencing the actual documentation, I had no clue what demi was leading me into (and I fully admit that).
passerby
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Circvs, I have a question. The records you speak of, are they accessible to the public or is some sort of clearance or "employee only" status required in order to access them?
Just wondering.
Church Lady
TenguPustule, I never said I knew how the auto bailout should be handled. I just said what I (personal opinion, only) thought should be done, logically, in order to help make GM hopefully return to profitiability (the reason a business can continue as a going concern).
I will leave unsubstantiated expertise to you. You do it so well.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
You know, if not for the amount of stuff I learn arguing here, I’d be pretty dumb regarding so much of our political reality. The situations we deal with these days are so complex and really uncommon that the only way to get to the bottom of them is to flesh them out together, which necessarily means bumping heads with others who have different opinions*. This blog truly is an amazing place to be.
*and yes to demi, I am happy you brought up the point, because I wasn’t even considering whether an actual indictment had occurred – I had to research it, it was the facts in the affidavit that I was focusing attention on. I learned something new today, thank you for pushing the point. I’m sorry that I made it difficult, but the point you were trying to make was stealing the air space of the points I was trying to make (such as that judges signatures may not truly be a necessary component).
ThymeZone
@Church Lady:
You, sir, are no lady.
Even if you do dress like one.
ThymeZone
OT, but is Tony Blankely the most odious pig on tv?
Or did I just imagine it?
Church Lady
Well, Tony Blankley certainly looks sort of piggish.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Federal records are usually available to the public, this being such a high profile case, they may have holds on it, or the paperwork could be in judge’s chambers and unavailable. You can go down and look at records physically unless they are only available online (most 2005-later cases are only available online, but, current records of current cases are displayed at the courthouse viewing room). There is a website that you can go on and create an account and look up more recent records (my account was through my business – I don’t have access to it anymore) and they will charge you about about eight cents a page for all records accessed (they will not give you an account without credit card so they can charge you). You can also get copies of cases at .50 a page uncertified at the courthouse (more for certification) – (not sure if they will allow you to copy this currently high profile case, I’ve never tried that).
Note: cases that are really old and inactive are usually shipped to a federal records center for storage.
passerby
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Thank you for that and the link.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
You’re welcome. If you need help in knowing how to maneuver around the site to find what you’re looking for, let me know. Courts will be divided by state and then, if necessary, by district. Bankruptcy courts are also available, they are found below the federal court state list. It’s not possible to search one name through all district courts, each district court has it’s own website and Pacer is just the linking mechanism to keep them all together online. Each district has their own search engine.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
passerby, I wasn’t going to add this, but just in case you need info on a case that is at a federal records center, get the name and location of the center, phone number and then ask them for the Accession number, Location number and Box number (if a case is really large, it may be in more than one box) of the case. These centers are huge and they have three different identifiers you need to get the info on how to access them. When you have that info, call the center and ask them if you can get access to the case. Some you will be able to, others you may not. It could take a few weeks to get the file and you may have to travel to one of these centers to view it.
TenguPhule
We can add illiterate to the list.
tavella
Actually, TenguPhule, Church Lady is right in this; merely announcing you’d like someone to kill your husband is unlikely to land a conviction, at least not one that will be upheld. There’s a *reason* why in hired-killer stings they want to get actual money changing hands.
So less with the arrogance, perhaps.
Xenos
The /s [printed name] signature on court paperwork is a convention set forth in the local rules that allows attorneys, clerks, and judges to sign paperwork without imaging a signature. Just put the ‘/s [printed name] ‘ on the signature line and upload document to the federal court computer system, and it counts as a signed document.
And passerby, any current case file should be available at the courthouse for review. You can also get it off the federal PACER system if you have an account. I believe you need to be a lawyer to get a PACER account, so you may need to go through a lawyer to get a document with great efficiency.
The date noted as signed in the document and the date published on the computer system may be different, though, just like in a manual system you can sign pleadings on one day and submit them to court later, so long as you stay within the relevant deadlines. Look for the time stamp the system puts on the document to see when it was published.
rikyrah
He can legally step back, and give the Lt. Governor, Governor-type powers, and collect his salary too. There is a legal glitch that he can use.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Other types of business entities can get Pacer accounts besides lawyers. I don’t know what types are limited though (including whether individuals can do this). In the capacity that I was using the Pacer system daily, there were no lawyers involved in my ability to access the account (however, I am not compelled to divulge the type of agency I was involved in here).
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Xenos, after searching the FAQ pages for both Pacer and ECF it appears anyone can access the documents in Pacer, but only legal firm entities can file cases through the system (which makes sense). The code info requested at registration is not a required field.