CNN is reporting that Ted Kennedy had a seizure at the luncheon, and Dana Bash is reporting that Robert Byrd had a “health issue” as well. Of course we hope everything is ok, but we really need to start thinking long and hard about some practical matters when it comes to age and public service. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that Strom Thurmond was with it in his waning years, and I suspect the same is true of Byrd. Due to Kennedy’s type of illness, he probably does not need to be lumped in with the other two, but the point still stands. Do we need an age requirement at the upper end?
*** Update ***
For those of you wondering why you were having a hard time watching the inauguration online, this email from CNN is a hint why:
Although, this is preliminary data and it may very well be higher – according to early data, as of 1p ET today, CNN.com Live served more than 18.8 million live video streams globally since 6a, shattering its all time total daily streaming record set on Election Day with 5.3 million live streams. (Source: Omniture SiteCatalyst, global). Additionally, CNN.com Live served 1.3 million concurrent live streams during its peak, which occurred immediately prior to President Obama’s inaugural address. (Source: Internal CDN monitoring data).
BDeevDad
That would go well with the AARP voting bloc.
Bad Horse's Filly
That’s what elections are for.
TheFountainHead
Copied from the previous thread: How come this "troop inspection" doesn’t involve any modern troop equipment or dress? Is it purely ceremonial?
demkat620
Man, this day has been such a roller coaster.
The Moar You Know
Like meatloaf at a vegan potluck.
Exhibit A for the prosecution:
Reagan
Byrd
Thurmond
McCain
Thatcher
The defense:
Stevens (the guy looked pretty lively today)
Rhenquist
Carter
Bush Sr.
I think you need, not an age limit but rather a means test, and not the typical DMV "if you can fog a mirror and tell us your name you can keep driving" test. A real one. Which doesn’t seem to exist yet.
Colonel Danite
I’m with Bad Horse’s Filly. The electorate needs to guide these fellows out of office. While I am against ageism, there is nothing wrong with discussing age as an issue during a campaign. If the candidate accused of being "too old" can show that they are capable, then the accuser will suffer at the ballot box. If the candidate proves that advanced age is an impediment to their ability to function in elected office, then it is perfectly legitimate to toss them out.
Now, ideally, someone in Robert Byrd’s close inner circle (and those of Thurmond, Helms, etc.) should have had the courage to tell them that it was time to leave.
demimondian
Byrd should retire — but his constituents *did* re-elect him. As long as they do that, he’s really doing his job.
Kennedy is a harder case. Until and unless his symptoms come back, he should continue to serve, while planning his succession in case they come back in a crippling manner.
oljb
If Byrd can no longer fulfill his duties, are we in store for the multi-decade reign of a self-appointed Senator Manchin?
R-Jud
Not an age requirement, but a functionality requirement. Every candidate for higher office should have to submit updated medical records, including neurology exams, whenever they run for re-election.
AkaDad
During the election, weren’t you always making ageist jokes about McCain? Why do you hate the elderly?
bleh
Let’s also not forget that Byrd surrendered the Chairmanship of Appropriations, which is about the most powerful position in the Senate, so he’s still got some sense about him.
Personally, though, I think it’s time to start the rumors about a right-wing attempt to poison the Democratic Senate leadership in order to undermine the Obama administration.
Just how is it that only senior Democrats fell ill? Just why did it happen today?
Clearly there could be treason involved. I think we need to waterboard us some Senate aides.
rob
See what I tell ya- President Obama is already killing the old white men. Impeach now!
Mutant Poodle
I think that, if the people of a state choose to elect a drooling idiot to represent them, who are we to argue?
BTW, let’s not forget Senator Jim Bunning, who was a few tacos short of a combo four years ago, and has yet to show up for work this year…
Face
I would hope this would apply to the Supremes, too, but then there’d be so much gaming the court going on, as everyone would thus know when and to whom the openings would occur. One could almost predict when Roe would be reversed, then unreversed, then reversed, etc.
MikeJ
Isn’t President Bartlett’s wife a doctor? Why didn’t she rush over to help?
Nicholas Beaudrot
I don’t know about for elected officials, but we either need age minimums or mandatory retirements for federal judges. Turnover on the judiciary is way slower than it was ever intended, thanks to 30 years of appointing fairly young judges, people living more active lives at old age, rise of the clerk system, etc. 70 or 75 feels about right.
Shygetz
No, we need an electorate willing to vote out an incumbent for less than gross misconduct. And that requires faith in the candidate pool, which in turn requires more effective candidates who seek office for some higher reason than personal ambition.
Reverend Dennis
First, how many of our Congress critters actually do their own homework? Most of them seem to rely on staffers to read and write legislation.
Second, power in both houses comes from committee appointments. The more influential committee appointments come with seniority. Sure, I’d rather have them based on ability but, no matter how loud the clamor for an age limit those folks aren’t going to upset a long-established apple cart.
Finally, the minimum age to serve in either house of Congress is established by the Constitution. Whether it’s absolutely necessary or not, opponents of setting an age limit would likely contend that a constitutional amendment is needed to impose an upper limit.
Not going to happen.
Svensker
You’re probably right, but… Byrd was one of the few who opposed the Iraq invasion and he did it eloquently. Go back and read his speech delivered right before the vote, John. At the time, you were still cheering on the Borg,so you might have a different take on it now. Byrd was a hero, and I personally sent him money for his re-election campaign, even though I thought he was too old. We needed both him and Kennedy in the Senate during the last years of Bush. God bless ’em both.
orogeny
From Politico…read the comments. Where is the outrage? When will O’Reilly do a show about the nastiness on the Politico Web site?
demimondian
@Mutant Poodle:
Particularly since the nation just spent eight years represented by a drooling idiot and a cannibalistic monster…
MBL
I was *stunned* at how well CNN’s live stream was holding up even without seeing what the numbers were. I’m a teacher and I spent a good chunk of today watching the inauguration coverage with my kids using an LCD projector and my laptop (no TV in the classroom.) The sound held up perfectly, and while there were occasional freezes of a few seconds in the video, they were damned rare, and not a single one during the actual inauguration ceremony.
Kudos to them. I was expecting disaster.
Quaker in a Basement
In addition to the voters, I think the parties bear some responsibility. Both major parties have been willing to seat obviously impaired members to hold a seat. It’s time for the parties to start bringing along younger talent.
Reverend Dennis
@MBL:
Kudos to you for making sure that your class was able to watch history being made.
BDeevDad
@MBL: They were limiting who could get on. Very smart as I had to try three different other feeds before I found one that was not clogged.
MikeJ
That’s because of the sheer volume of legislation. Most of them really do spend many hours per day reading and writing, but they have to rely on their LD to really understand the bills they aren’t personally involved with because there are too damned many of them.
Try following just one committee in depth for a week, and while you’re at it raise $10,000/day for your reelection.
jimBOB
Aging Senators could be a problem, but the place where this really hits hard is in the SCOTUS. Since there are only nine justices, having one aged out of competency is a much more important thing than having one of a hundred Senators in the same condition. Further, justices may decide to hang on long past their normal retirements if the current president seems likely to appoint someone they’d disagree with.
With either Senators of Supreme Court justices, devising a competency test that would be accepted as legitimate by all political sides would probably be impossible. My guess is Scalia and Thomas will hang on till rigor mortis sets in so long as the Dems hold the White House.
gopher2b
No, we need to stop electing people who are clearly incapicated. I’m sure they have a son or niece the Governor could appoint anyway.
Michael D.
@bleh:
Well, when you pretty much have everything in West Virginia named after you, you probably don’t need as many appropriations anymore.
jenniebee
At age 66, Thurmond took a new 22 year old wife, a Miss South Carolina (he was a judge). The old coot was with it enough to father four kids with her.
And he did just what South Carolina wanted him to do, which is to say, not much at all.
The moral (such as it is) of my story (such as it is) is that an old loopy dude in Congress is an asset if he’s taking up one of the opposition’s safe seats because he’s keeping that seat away from a younger and more energetic member of the opposition.
DanR2
Byrd’s February 2003 Senate floor speech "Reckless Administration May Reap Disastrous Consequences" earned him a Senate seat for as long as he wants it, alive, dead, frozen, whatever. He was 85 years old when he delivered that smackdown, while the rest of the smart young Democrats were folding up like lawn chairs over the Iraq war resolution vote.
smiley
You vets might appreciate this. As the President was about to get into his car he reached out his hand to shake hands with the soldier who escorted them down the capital steps. The soldier did not take his hand but instead saluted. Pres. Obama paused for a second, apparently because he was taken by surprise, but then returned the salute, then they shook hands. It was kinda cool. Probably the first time he was saluted face to face.
Napoleon
Actually the Supremes should be on set terms like states do it. In order to insulate them you can still give them life time appointments, just make it that they return to (or convert to, as the case maybe) a circuit appealate judge at the end of their Supreme Court term.
Incertus
We wound up watching it on Hulu, which was streaming the Fox News feed. They weren’t as clogged as the other news networks for some reason–can’t figure why. Now, if only the Fox douchebag hadn’t started talking over Elizabeth Alexander’s poem…
CT
@smiley
Yeah, I saw that too. Very cool. Now watching Obama’s limo being passed by a crawling baby along the parade route. Hope the parade isn’t longer than 100 yards or so-the pres and Michelle have got some balls to go to tonight.
Punchy
What a fucking insult to the military. Like a middle finger, or five, to the branches that protect our liberty. This guy cannot be trusted with nuclear bombs and bottle rockets. And because he’s black, Rush told me he can’t be trusted with mortgage payments, either.
Patrick
Kennedy is fine; but must be getting sicker by the moment that MSNBC is foregoing all coverage of the inauguration to talk about his health.
MikeJ
The Capitol is at 1st. The last street they’ll pass before the White House is 15th. At 20 blocks/mile (pretty standard cityish measure), 3/4ths of a mile.
They just said on air they’re currently passing 4th.
Karen
I watched the whole thing on ABC, with no problems at all. I wouldn’t have attempted to watch on line.
Phoenix Woman
@The Moar You Know:
What TMYK said. That is all.
PeakVT
Do we need an age requirement at the upper end?
No, but I think term limits of 18 or 24 years in each chamber would be good. For the Supremes I would make the appointment for 20 years non-renewable, with longer terms for the lower courts.
While technically there is the possibility of voters removing incumbents in a primary, it almost never happens. Incumbents are forced out mostly in wave elections when a constituency reverses its previous voting pattern and the opposing party takes control of the seat.
Napoleon
I you would have to go with a number that is 9 or a multiple of 9, so 18 is closest. Even that seems too long for me, until you think about the fact that anything shorter that is still a multiple of 9 would let one two term President appoint a majority of the members.
PS, I really do think they should have lifetime appointments to the bench, even at trial and lower appealate levels, with some kind of retirement age or forced senior status.
ricky
Just for the outrage I am sure to engender, there are probably just as many whackos on the opposite end of the spectrum who still feel Kennedy should be prosecuted.
ricky
Think what we might have endured if King Timmy had not gone quickly.
Tim F.
If my experience is any guide, the idea that CNN “served” 18 million web streams is a bit whimsical. I could have gotten better service if they sent the packets by regular mail.
Comrade Darkness
Gah, wrong thread to post that…
[this space intentionally left blank]
Comrade Dread
Yes. After your 65th birthday or your 24th year of service, you get gassed, assigned a number, and sent to the Village.
Or turned into Soylent Green.
Whichever you prefer.
Shawn in ShowMe
Why do we have term limits on the President and governors but not on members of Congress?
Jon H
Red State (Leon Wolf) is already hoping for Obama’s failure.
ricky
Leon Wolf’s habitat is shrinking with each election.
The Other Steve
We’ve survived for over 200 years with the current system and have not been horribly effected by old congress critters. Leave it alone.
Same with courts… life time appointment was in the Constitution for a reason.
Leon Wolf is a stool sample.
calipygian
Charles "Negroes are teh stooopid" Murray makes an intelligent comment on "The Corner":
Go read it quickly before K-Lo realizes how badly she’s fucked up.
ricky
I think the point of the post is that so many of them choose the Village option that it is turning into Drooling Bozos up there.
(Update) I hear tell a substantial number were gassed before they arrived for the first time.
Martin
You might know this, but someone figured out what kind of bandwidth various services offered and Netflix/USPS won by a mile. DVDs by mail delivers more content than the internet does. Latency sucks, but the rain nor snow guys still deliver more digital content than Google, etc.
Shawn in ShowMe
We’ve survived for over 200 years with the current system and have not been horribly effected by old congress critters. Leave it alone.
We haven’t always had term limits on the Presidency and have not been horribly effected by the change. If there’s a more sensible way of implementing government, we should do it.
demkat620
@Jon H:
So is Limbaugh, who apparently today, also didn’t like the poet.
MikeJ
Clinton would have won a third term in a walk.
CT
Pardon the full-on sap mode, but Sasha might be my favorite Obama-I have a daughter almost exactly her age, and she’s pretty damn adorable.
TheFountainHead
I think the tumbling team is in the parade just to remind all us white folk that we can’t jump.
J.
Wow. That’s some statistic. Felix and I had no trouble watching the inauguration, etc.
I hope Senators Kennedy and Byrd are okay. Though hey, none of us is getting out of here alive. (What were they serving at that lunch!?)
Comrade Dread
If I knew then what I know now, I would have been 100% for letting him.
I’ll take a good ol’ fashioned sex scandal over destroying the Rule of Law any day.
Dave C
Watching the parade, I noticed that the Illinois float had the Whitesox mascot, but nothing for the Cubs. What a slap in the face to all North-siders!
MikeJ
The same thing I was off at the grocery store buying when I heard about Kennedy. To be honest, I’m only doing half of the second course. (The duck with cherry chutney, molasses sweet potatoes, winter veg). Of course now I’m having second thoughts.
Incertus
@demkat620: I’m sure Alexander is crushed.
Comrade Darkness
"If I knew then what I know now, I would have been 100% for letting him."
Some of us did know then what everyone knows now. And we have died inside a little every day between then and now.
Faux News
As much as I utterly despise Limbaugh I unfortunately have to agree with him on the Poet. She was pretty lame.
Then again as the Wingnuts have helpfully pointed out, Obama "flubbed" the Oath of Office so he really isn’t President.
Incertus
@Faux News: I disagree, but I’m judging it as an occasional poem, not as a poem in general, and I think it was better than either what Angelou or Miller Williams (my old professor) dropped on us back in ’92 and ’96. It’s probably not as well-crafted a poem as "The Gift Outright," but that was Frost, and Alexander’s was a lot more encompassing, which is sort of what you’re looking for in a poem for this sort of occasion.
MikeJ
I thought the poet was great, but I would have been happy if someone had just read Langston Hughes.
Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)
Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed–
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.
calipygian
Two early signs that Bush was a fucking douchebag:
"Please don’t kill me", as he mocks a convicted inmate.
"Would you vote for McCain knowing he has a black child", referring to McCain and his adopted Bangladeshi daughter during the South Carolina primary.
What took the rest of you so long to figure out that Bush was a dick?
AhabTRuler
Schadenfreude (Yum!).
Shawn in ShowMe
Clinton would have won a third term in a walk.
The same thing could be said of Reagan. Of course, he would have had no knowledge of it.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Incertus
The poem was very good. It was the recital that was lacking.
I’m all for thinking outside the box and bringing in Jill Scott for the next inauguration.
justcorbly
Let the voters decide when someone needs to leave office. (And if someone refrains from doing in-the-flesh campaigning, that ought to be taken as a hint that something is wrong.)
Requiring a test after a certain age is, by defintion, discrimination based on age, and as repugnant as testing politicians who happen to be Caucasian or female.
Re: Helms — There was a litany of reasons why this guy should never have been in the Senate. But, while his physical disabilities were apparent after he retired back here to NC, he seemed as sharp as ever whenever I saw him make a public appearance, at least until the last several months before his death when it was common knowledge that he was deteriorating.
Incertus
@Shawn in ShowMe: I can’t argue with you on the delivery. I wonder how much the halting style had to do with speaking through a PA and focusing on enunciation, and how much of it was intentional. I’ve never heard Alexander speak before, so I have no idea.
maya
At least Bryd and Kennedy walked into the inauguration. Cheney in a wheelchair? Awwwww.
A full body harness w/ muzzle and strapped to a moving dolly would have been more appropriate.
The reason CNN’s Live feed was overwhelmed was because they were also covering a welcome home Bush rally in Dallas. Can’t wait for the numbers on that.
D-Chance.
No term limits.
If voters want to keep re-electing doddering old fools, let ’em. Old Sheets and Teddy will make for great funeral parties soon enough.
Caravelle
The thing is with age, it affects your capabilities but it doesn’t affect everyone exactly the same way, so age restrictions will necessarily be wrong for some people. On the other hand, it’s a lot harder (and open to abuse) to restrict by capabilities, so age can make sense.
The really interesting thing in my view, is that the choice differs whether we’re talking about the lower age bound and the upper one.
I wonder if that might have something to do with the age of the people making the laws…